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JEDean89
08-05-2015, 01:29 PM
The Timberwolves have one of the most impressive young cores we've seen in a long time. With 3 consecutive #1 picks on their roster, also bolstered by other young promising players like Muhammed, Dieng, Payne and Lavine, their rebuild went smooth and quick. However, they have 4 vets that should all start, and that may not be the best thing. Right now their lineup looks like

Pekovic/Towns
Garnett/Dieng/Bennet
Wiggins/Muhammed/Bennet
Martin/Lavine
Rubio/Miller/Jones

That is not a bad team, certainly not bottom 5, but guys like Pekovic and Martin are only going to prevent guys like Towns, Dieng, Muhammed and Lavine from getting the minutes they need. They will make a trade no doubt. I would move Pekovic and Martin, then just try and stack the team as much as possible.

mngopher35
08-05-2015, 01:38 PM
I am fine with martin staying but if someone offers value I'd have no issues with trading him. I think many have wanted pek gone for a while. With his injury history and salary he has basically been considered untradable. I would dump him for basically nothing (best case he plays well until as break and we send him out).

I thought this was going to be about us loading up with pfs. Kg, Payne, Bennett, bjelica, rudez? with towns/dieng maybe getting a few minutes too.

JEDean89
08-05-2015, 01:47 PM
Yah I don't see where Dieng, Bennet and Payne are getting minutes right now. Pek will get around 30, Garnett around 25, and Towns will get 30+ too. Not much room left for the 3 young bloods.

mngopher35
08-05-2015, 02:12 PM
Yah I don't see where Dieng, Bennet and Payne are getting minutes right now. Pek will get around 30, Garnett around 25, and Towns will get 30+ too. Not much room left for the 3 young bloods.

I think KG/Pek might be held down a little bit to let the young guys go (and to prevent injury). They also can be expected to miss some games. Dieng should get a good chunk of those remaining minutes but overall you are right there isn't enough time for all our young big men right now.

dnl123
08-05-2015, 02:31 PM
Garnett is not worthy of a starting spot. He's there to mentor the young guys and to play 15-20 minutes a game.

phantasyyy
08-05-2015, 02:48 PM
Garnett is not worthy of a starting spot. He's there to mentor the young guys and to play 15-20 minutes a game.

I think I read an article stating that its a symbolic type of thing, he wont be playing starter-type minutes anyways, and it'll be sort of like passing of the torch whenever when of the younger bigs(most likely Towns if he doesn't start at Center right away- other wise Dieng) plays well enough to take his spot.

Assuming everyone is injury free I assume their starting line up will be:

Rubio / Martin / Wiggins / KG / Towns or Pek to boost his trade value

Followed by:

Rubio / Martin / Wiggins / Dieng / Towns

after a few weeks. I like the idea of Dieng and towns front court, and I think Martin's place in the starting lineup is as secure as Rubio's and Wiggin's with his ability to stretch the floor.

jerellh528
08-05-2015, 03:20 PM
I never agreed with the theory that young guys can't properly develop without being thrust into a starting role playing a lot of mins. I think young guys, especially ones like on the wolves, 18-20 year olds can benefit greatly from playing off the bench and in situational basketball. There's plenty of pros for a young guy to play behind a vet vs cons, it's not all about playing 40 mins a game. 25 mins, with situational subs, and learning from vets is a good thing. Mostly it just depends on the work ethic of the player though, whether he gets every minute available or plays 15 mins, a crap work ethic, and a player won't progress.
Obviously a player like wiggins has earned his starting spot, but I see no problem with towns, Lavine, and co coming off the bench, unless they outplay their vet counterparts.

colinskik
08-05-2015, 03:25 PM
Garnett is not worthy of a starting spot. He's there to mentor the young guys and to play 15-20 minutes a game.

He'll start and still play around 15-20 mins.

I think the most relevant question is who starts at C to begin: Dieng or Towns? (This is assuming the Wolves try to move Pek, which they really, really should be trying to do.)

Hawkeye15
08-05-2015, 04:19 PM
lot of things nobody is remembering. Pek goes through month long periods, like literally a period (you can see the pallet of tampons in the tunnel). Add to it that he is in a walking boot, after yet another surgery to his foot, and anyone expecting his 300 lb *** to play more than 50 games, at 20 mpg is dreaming. KG will start (Flip has said this), and not play more than 22 minutes. He will also be given some back to backs off, and random games here and there. 65 games is the goal. The OP forgot Bjelica and Paynes, who are probably ahead of Bennett (trade bait) if he doesn't show up to camp and look good. Martin is the only guy who can consistently hit a 3 pointer on our entire roster, and even he misses 10-12 games a year. LaVine/Bazz/Dieng most likely lead our second unit.

Towns will find himself in plenty of foul trouble early in his career as he figures out when to jump and when not to. Miller was brought in because Rubio has shown only one year where he stayed upright.

With the expected and known injuries, I would guess it looks like this:

Towns/Pek/Dieng (Towns plays around 28 mpg his rookie year, remember Pek is gone at least 30 games, and even the ones he plays he isn't getting half the minutes)
KG/Towns/Bjelica/Payne (KG starts, plays 11 minutes a half)
Wiggins/Bazz/Bjelica
Martin/LaVine
Rubio/Miller/Jones (Tyus looks a ways away from contributing to an NBA roster)

They will be fine. I would imagine Bennett is on the block starting 2 months ago.

Hawkeye15
08-05-2015, 04:19 PM
He'll start and still play around 15-20 mins.

I think the most relevant question is who starts at C to begin: Dieng or Towns? (This is assuming the Wolves try to move Pek, which they really, really should be trying to do.)

Pek isn't even tradeable yet. But he will miss too much time. Dieng actually becomes a negative the more you play him, he should probably be held in the 20 mpg range for his own good.

Scoots
08-05-2015, 04:56 PM
Going all in for youth (except KG) makes sense to me ... people will accuse the Wolves of tanking like the Sixers.

The Wolves are going to struggle in the West with the vets getting more than half the minutes so why waste time on the vets?

phantasyyy
08-05-2015, 05:17 PM
He'll start and still play around 15-20 mins.

I think the most relevant question is who starts at C to begin: Dieng or Towns? (This is assuming the Wolves try to move Pek, which they really, really should be trying to do.)

Peks trade value almost non existent at this moment 12.5/7.9 on 42% shooting through 30 games. 11-12m contract. Hasn't played more than 60 games ever. I think they're stuck with him.

Hawkeye15
08-05-2015, 05:48 PM
Going all in for youth (except KG) makes sense to me ... people will accuse the Wolves of tanking like the Sixers.

The Wolves are going to struggle in the West with the vets getting more than half the minutes so why waste time on the vets?

I think we will be better than people think. Healthy Rubio and Bazz, Martin can still score 15 a game efficiently, and more progression from Wiggins/Lavine/Dieng, with KG there to mentor Towns, and this Bjelica kid, it could be more like a 30-32 win team imo. And this coming from a usually negative Wolves fan.

Hawkeye15
08-05-2015, 05:49 PM
Peks trade value almost non existent at this moment 12.5/7.9 on 42% shooting through 30 games. 11-12m contract. Hasn't played more than 60 games ever. I think they're stuck with him.

yeah Pek is dead to me. Anything he or Bennett provide are add-ons to anything I can imagine the Wolves doing.

phantasyyy
08-05-2015, 06:37 PM
yeah Pek is dead to me. Anything he or Bennett provide are add-ons to anything I can imagine the Wolves doing.

Bennett at least has the benefits of a strong pan-am games showing where he showcased some of his skills that tricked the Cleveland front office into drafting him hahaha.

Maybe Garnett will light a fire under him to perform better, entering his 3rd year hes got to show something to keep his job in the league. Lucky for him though he is finally looking healthy, and if all fails Toronto will scoop him up for the minimum since he is Canadian :D

Hawkeye15
08-05-2015, 07:21 PM
Bennett at least has the benefits of a strong pan-am games showing where he showcased some of his skills that tricked the Cleveland front office into drafting him hahaha.

Maybe Garnett will light a fire under him to perform better, entering his 3rd year hes got to show something to keep his job in the league. Lucky for him though he is finally looking healthy, and if all fails Toronto will scoop him up for the minimum since he is Canadian :D

With Bennett it's mental. I just don't think he is strong enough mentally to make it.

Byronicle
08-05-2015, 09:33 PM
They're fine

They don't need that starter's pressure

They should learn to earn the time, and not just inherit it

These vets will not be playing a ton of minutes, they are essentially vets playing back up minutes

mrblisterdundee
08-05-2015, 10:26 PM
I would take Garnett, who has a 20-minute-per-game restriction, off the bench:

PG: Ricky Rubio, Andre Miller, Tyus Jones, Lorenzo Brown
SG: Kevin Martin, Zach LeVine
SF: Anthony Wiggins, Shabbaz Muhammad, Damjan Rudez
PF: Karl Anthony-Towns, Kevin Garnett, Anthony Bennett
C: Nikola Pekovic, Gorgui Dieng

Build up Pekovic's trade value, deal him as soon as possible, then switch towns to center. And hope Bennett and Towns both become Garnett's good little padawans.
Martin helps spread the floor but can't play defense. But with his shooting and $6.7 million salary, he's very tradeable. Dangle him and some package including Muhammad and/or LeVine to upgrade the back court with a three-and-D specialist. Good luck trying to unload Rubio, unless he improves his shooting, in which case he becomes a franchise cornerstone.

tp13baby
08-05-2015, 10:44 PM
Yah I don't see where Dieng, Bennet and Payne are getting minutes right now. Pek will get around 30, Garnett around 25, and Towns will get 30+ too. Not much room left for the 3 young bloods.

Yeah Pek isn't getting 30 minutes per. Injury prone and inefficient numbers puts him closer to 22 min. Garnett 15-20, Towns will start off around 24~ Dieng and Payne will play the rest of the minutes. Bennett isn't even worth mentioning. He just isn't an NBA player at the moment.

tp13baby
08-05-2015, 10:48 PM
I think we will be better than people think. Healthy Rubio and Bazz, Martin can still score 15 a game efficiently, and more progression from Wiggins/Lavine/Dieng, with KG there to mentor Towns, and this Bjelica kid, it could be more like a 30-32 win team imo. And this coming from a usually negative Wolves fan.

I think Minny is third in the division. Denver will take over the worst spot.

I really like the Minny's team and I see an OKC like rebuild. In 3-4 years this team is going to be extremely dangerous IMO.

slashsnake
08-06-2015, 02:18 AM
yeah Pek is dead to me. Anything he or Bennett provide are add-ons to anything I can imagine the Wolves doing.

Pek was bad last year... and his defense is just flat out ugly. Bennett? I remember earlier in the year they tried to force some minutes his way and it wasn't nice.

I don't see where they could move Pek. big contract not expiring for another 3 years.

PhillyFaninLA
08-06-2015, 06:31 AM
Garnett is not worthy of a starting spot. He's there to mentor the young guys and to play 15-20 minutes a game.

And he can't play 15 - 20 minutes a game and mentor players as a starter because.....

MonroeFAN
08-06-2015, 11:03 AM
I would bet money on KG playing 15-20 minutes a game and starting.

JasonJohnHorn
08-08-2015, 03:44 PM
Dieng is a seriously better rebounder than Pek, but having watched them play a few times in the 2013/2014 season, it seemed like Pek was CLEARLY the more rounded player overall (though I admittedly didn't get to se much of either this past season).

Pek is still pretty young and has some serious upside. I think letting him go would be a mistake.

Martin is a solid shooter when he's not the focus of opposing defences. I think OKC was actually a great spot for him; not sure why they let him walk. I'd let him go for a first-round pick, or if a team was dumping a salary and looking to unload a talented player, but I doubt either scenario comes up.


If the T-Wolves want to go young, then yeah, packing up Pek and Martin together could be very appealing to some teams (a C and a shooting guard), but I'm not sure who would have enough to offer to make it worth while.

That said, keeping these guys might be the best bet. You'd be surprised how much of an impact veteran players can make on a young team that is up and coming. Look at Pierce last year with Washington. Or Bogut, Iggy and Lee in Goldenstate the last couple years.

In a playoff series, guys like that can be the difference between getting knocked out in the first round, and making it to the NBA finals.

They aren't untouchable, obviously, but it'd have to be a good deal to make it worth their while.

Cracka2HI!
08-08-2015, 04:16 PM
They will be interesting for sure. They have a lot of talent. I think too many of their young players player PF or aren't good outside shooters. It would seem like they can use a trade. Sixers, Boston, Charlotte, Utah and Denver might make sense as trade partners.

mngopher35
08-08-2015, 04:18 PM
Dieng is a seriously better rebounder than Pek, but having watched them play a few times in the 2013/2014 season, it seemed like Pek was CLEARLY the more rounded player overall (though I admittedly didn't get to se much of either this past season).

Pek is still pretty young and has some serious upside. I think letting him go would be a mistake.

This is the part of your post I disagree with and I think many other wolves fans would as well. Pek will be 30 years old in January and played 85 games the last two years combined (has never made it over 65). He isn't bad when healthy but he also isn't that great and with taking up 12M it just isn't worth it. We would be much better off dumping him mid-season if someone will bite and giving those minutes to Towns, Dieng, Bjelica, Payne. We can save money, not have to deal with shuffling rotations due to injury, and get some more playing time for bigs who may be part of our future.



Martin is a solid shooter when he's not the focus of opposing defences. I think OKC was actually a great spot for him; not sure why they let him walk. I'd let him go for a first-round pick, or if a team was dumping a salary and looking to unload a talented player, but I doubt either scenario comes up.


If the T-Wolves want to go young, then yeah, packing up Pek and Martin together could be very appealing to some teams (a C and a shooting guard), but I'm not sure who would have enough to offer to make it worth while.

Agreed on Martin, he is a good vet at a cheap price. Unless a decent offer like a first rounder or good young prospect come up he has more value sticking around.


That said, keeping these guys might be the best bet. You'd be surprised how much of an impact veteran players can make on a young team that is up and coming. Look at Pierce last year with Washington. Or Bogut, Iggy and Lee in Goldenstate the last couple years.

In a playoff series, guys like that can be the difference between getting knocked out in the first round, and making it to the NBA finals.

They aren't untouchable, obviously, but it'd have to be a good deal to make it worth their while.

We have KG, Andre Miller, Kmart as vets who should get some playing time if we trade pek (rubio too even though he is still somewhat young). Playoffs aren't as big of a deal this season as just getting good development all around from the younger guys. If we do trade both of them it clears about 20 million in cap so we could still add a couple next season when we are hopefully a real playoff contender. That last line fits for what our stance on Kmart should be but at this point pek can be had for just taking on his salary (and even then no one would take him atm).

mngopher35
08-08-2015, 04:32 PM
They will be interesting for sure. They have a lot of talent. I think too many of their young players player PF or aren't good outside shooters. It would seem like they can use a trade. Sixers, Boston, Charlotte, Utah and Denver might make sense as trade partners.

It is hard to say for sure with the young guys but I am not quite worried about our shooting yet. Last year Shabazz shot 39%, Lavine 34% and Wiggins 31% from 3. Wiggins and Lavine have nice looking shots so hopefully those can improve (shooting and shot selection) and Shabazz just sticks to hitting the open ones. Towns supposedly has good range on his shot as well which should be helpful and Dieng has solid mid range (shoots 56% from 10-16). So most of our young guys outside Rubio look to be alright from distance we just need to make sure we have a sharp shooting role player as none are elite (Kmart for now).

ROY 2 MVP Braun
08-09-2015, 01:16 PM
What are the Wolves trying to get for A. Bennett? At the 3/4/5 the Bucks have Giannas, Inglis, Copeland, JOB, Parker, Monroe, Henson, Plumlee. I'm not sure if Copeland can play pf? I don't think so. We'll have to play Giannas there a lot until Parker comes back from injury. They're saying that could be around January. Even when he comes back it looks like we could use a backup pf unless the play any combo of Monroe, Henson, and Plumlee at the 4 and 5 which isn't a good fit.

With that said if we could get AB cheap like a 2nd round pick and JOB or 2 2nd round picks I think it would be worth the shot. I think offensively he might fit really well into Kidd's system. Than defensively he wouldn't be a great fit next to Monroe, but would next to Plum and Henson. Also the system and effort Kidd demands on D would help him out as well.

The only players I can see Milwaukee giving up are Tyler Ennis, Johnny O'Bryant, Jorge Guitterez(sp?) and possibly Miles Plumlee, and possibly Jarred Bayless although Kidd recruited him and is close to him and his parents. Than we've got all of our 1st round and 2nd round picks. I think we have a few extra 2nds as well In The next few drafts. Is any of that interesting to the Wolves for more than clearing a bit of cap and a bit of playing time?

mngopher35
08-09-2015, 01:41 PM
Honestly the seconds sounds about right for his value but a lottery protected first would be even better haha. We have KG, Bjelica, Payne, and maybe some Towns/Dieng who are likely ahead of him at pf on the depth chart so I don't think he would be too hard to pry away.

Cracka2HI!
08-09-2015, 02:04 PM
It is hard to say for sure with the young guys but I am not quite worried about our shooting yet. Last year Shabazz shot 39%, Lavine 34% and Wiggins 31% from 3. Wiggins and Lavine have nice looking shots so hopefully those can improve (shooting and shot selection) and Shabazz just sticks to hitting the open ones. Towns supposedly has good range on his shot as well which should be helpful and Dieng has solid mid range (shoots 56% from 10-16). So most of our young guys outside Rubio look to be alright from distance we just need to make sure we have a sharp shooting role player as none are elite (Kmart for now).

That is a promising sign. I didn't know they were improving shooters. I still think they need to find a way to trade for a guy like Martin. A younger version who fits with their young core.

ROY 2 MVP Braun
08-09-2015, 02:32 PM
Honestly the seconds sounds about right for his value but a lottery protected first would be even better haha. We have KG, Bjelica, Payne, and maybe some Towns/Dieng who are likely ahead of him at pf on the depth chart so I don't think he would be too hard to pry away.
Do you know what his contract is? I know were tight against if not over the cap right now.

5ass
08-09-2015, 02:43 PM
That is a promising sign. I didn't know they were improving shooters. I still think they need to find a way to trade for a guy like Martin. A younger version who fits with their young core.

Normally I would agree with that, but in the wolves case I dont think they'd do it. Seeing as how they haven't made the play offs in 11 years, I don't think they want to delay that any longer.

WITZ
08-09-2015, 02:48 PM
Bennett at least has the benefits of a strong pan-am games showing where he showcased some of his skills that tricked the Cleveland front office into drafting him hahaha.

Maybe Garnett will light a fire under him to perform better, entering his 3rd year hes got to show something to keep his job in the league. Lucky for him though he is finally looking healthy, and if all fails Toronto will scoop him up for the minimum since he is Canadian :D

Garnett will break his fragile mind pretty safe to assume he wont be back when his option comes up he's getting paid almost 7 Mil :puke:

5ass
08-09-2015, 02:53 PM
It became clear to me last year that Bennett was a salary dump. I dont think he has any trade value.

mngopher35
08-09-2015, 03:02 PM
Do you know what his contract is? I know were tight against if not over the cap right now.

It is close to 6 million (with team option next yr for 7), if you have an expiring/trade exception it could work.

mngopher35
08-09-2015, 03:03 PM
That is a promising sign. I didn't know they were improving shooters. I still think they need to find a way to trade for a guy like Martin. A younger version who fits with their young core.

I think the plan is probably to let martin play out his contract and then do what you are saying and get a younger version. If a good offer came for Martin then we could speed up that process.

ROY 2 MVP Braun
08-09-2015, 11:41 PM
Do you know what his contract is? I know were tight against if not over the cap right now.

It is close to 6 million (with team option next yr for 7), if you have an expiring/trade exception it could work.
I'm not sure if we've got any TPE's available still or not to be honest. I'd have to look it up tomorrow when I'm on a pc.

As bad as Bennett has been even if he wasn't a number 1 overall pick he would have still been taken In The top 5 to 7 picks. IDK I haven't seen him play many times, but there's a reason he was going to picked In The top half of the lottery. He hasn't panned out as a player so far but I think in the NBA any player took In The top 10 should get his rookie contract of 4 years plus another 3 year contract after that to see if they ever live up to anything at all worthwhile.

Hawkeye15
08-10-2015, 10:09 AM
I'm not sure if we've got any TPE's available still or not to be honest. I'd have to look it up tomorrow when I'm on a pc.

As bad as Bennett has been even if he wasn't a number 1 overall pick he would have still been taken In The top 5 to 7 picks. IDK I haven't seen him play many times, but there's a reason he was going to picked In The top half of the lottery. He hasn't panned out as a player so far but I think in the NBA any player took In The top 10 should get his rookie contract of 4 years plus another 3 year contract after that to see if they ever live up to anything at all worthwhile.

what? Why? Adam Morrison, Jonny Flynn, Wes Johnson (2 Wolves) all basically got no deal, or year to year deals after their first 4 year deal. If you can't show you belong in an NBA rotation after 4 years, I don't care where you were picked. Bennett is big, strong, and a good athlete, but he is a mental midget.

igbnbmg
08-10-2015, 10:43 AM
Garnett is not worthy of a starting spot. He's there to mentor the young guys and to play 15-20 minutes a game.

Tony_Starks
08-10-2015, 11:14 AM
First time in a long time the Wolves didn't have a couple of totally random white dudes in the rotation that I didn't even know were in the league.

Well alright!

Hawkeye15
08-10-2015, 11:25 AM
First time in a long time the Wolves didn't have a couple of totally random white dudes in the rotation that I didn't even know were in the league.

Well alright!

we brought over Bjelica haha

Tony_Starks
08-10-2015, 12:07 PM
First time in a long time the Wolves didn't have a couple of totally random white dudes in the rotation that I didn't even know were in the league.

Well alright!

we brought over Bjelica haha

aw hell. Spoke too soon! lol