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ILLUSIONIST^248
08-04-2015, 08:24 PM
This is a new twist on the same boring all time list. What does the top ten players of all time look like from 30 years old until retirement? This is a cool way to discuss longevity of some of the greats.

alexander_37
08-04-2015, 08:32 PM
You just want to jerk off to people posting Kobe's name

KnicksorBust
08-04-2015, 08:34 PM
Going to try and do it off the top of my head.

Kareem
MJ
Kobe
Malone
Duncan
Hakeem
Shaq
Moses
West
Dirk

alexander_37
08-04-2015, 08:38 PM
I'd take Reggie miller over a guy like shaq easy he stqarted declining at like 33

bucketss
08-04-2015, 08:38 PM
Top 5.

mj
kareem
duncan
malone
kobe

PowerHouse
08-04-2015, 08:39 PM
Steve Nash didnt even become great at all until he hit 30. He has to be my #1 with Kareem closely behind.

KnicksorBust
08-04-2015, 08:42 PM
Steve Nash didnt even become great at all until he hit 30. He has to be my #1 with Kareem closely behind.

Trolling?

PowerHouse
08-04-2015, 08:44 PM
Trolling?

What the hell are you talking about?

ILLUSIONIST^248
08-04-2015, 09:20 PM
You just want to jerk off to people posting Kobe's namekobe would have owned that title pretty easily if he didn't get hurt these past few years. Now it's gonna be tough for him to bypass other greats.

alexander_37
08-04-2015, 09:21 PM
kobe would have owned that title pretty easily if he didn't get hurt these past few years. Now it's gonna be tough for him to bypass other greats.

AKA Kobe would have won if the same thing that happened to everyone else in the NBA didn't happen to him.

tredigs
08-04-2015, 09:25 PM
Trolling?

Nash turned 30 and then won his b2b MVP's. Then continued at a super elite level for another 4 years. He has as strong a case as anyone.

tredigs
08-04-2015, 09:28 PM
Stockton deserves some recognition here too. Led the league in assists a handful of times in his 30's and was still deadly into his mid 30's.

KnicksorBust
08-04-2015, 09:30 PM
Trolling?

What the hell are you talking about?

MJ won 2 mvps and 3 straight titles after 30 and absolutely murders Nash's impact defensively and he doesn't even get referenced? Be serious.

mngopher35
08-04-2015, 09:45 PM
Kaj, Duncan, Malone, Stockton and Nash all seem like they would be near the top here for me.

Issue for Kobe and Jordan in this is that they each don't have quite the same longevity after age 30 season. They were definitely great players and probably peak higher than others at an older age but probably played 2/3 the games that others on here have. If this list is based on longevity after 30 then they aren't really in the running, if it is high level play at age 30-34 then they are at the top.

Hawkeye15
08-04-2015, 09:50 PM
Jabbar
Duncan
Jordan
Malone
Stockton
Nash
Kobe
Dream
Shaq
Moses

idk, I would have to put more thought into it, but all those guys were **** after 30

Hawkeye15
08-04-2015, 09:52 PM
Kaj, Duncan, Malone, Stockton and Nash all seem like they would be near the top here for me.

Issue for Kobe and Jordan in this is that they each don't have quite the same longevity after age 30 season. They were definitely great players and probably peak higher than others at an older age but probably played 2/3 the games that others on here have. If this list is based on longevity after 30 then they aren't really in the running, if it is high level play at age 30-34 then they are at the top.

Jordan gets hurt only by his hiatus, then 3 years of retirement. He would lead this list if he didn't sit out 4.5 years of that decade.

mngopher35
08-04-2015, 09:56 PM
Jordan gets hurt only by his hiatus, then 3 years of retirement. He would lead this list if he didn't sit out 4.5 years of that decade.

Definitely true. Kobe has been hit with some injuries as well affecting his longevity (although that is more common). I am just saying if this is a longevity after 30 type of thing it knocks those two down a bit.

Hawkeye15
08-04-2015, 09:59 PM
Definitely true. Kobe has been hit with some injuries as well affecting his longevity (although that is more common). I am just saying if this is a longevity after 30 type of thing it knocks those two down a bit.

yeah I mean Jabbar craps on everyone here, and I am even surprised no mention of the Chief. But yeah I agree

mngopher35
08-04-2015, 10:10 PM
yeah I mean Jabbar craps on everyone here, and I am even surprised no mention of the Chief. But yeah I agree

Parish might not be at quite the same level as some of the people mentioned but his longevity was really impressive, good shout out.

PowerHouse
08-04-2015, 10:33 PM
MJ won 2 mvps and 3 straight titles after 30 and absolutely murders Nash's impact defensively and he doesn't even get referenced? Be serious.

Did you see make a list of 10 guys? Im at work you weirdo, I just responded to the question as quickly as I could. Just because MJ didnt make my top two within the 3 seconds I thought about it is no reason to throw a tantrum. Find somebody else to whine at, and find a legit reason to do so too.

KnicksorBust
08-04-2015, 10:45 PM
Trolling?

Nash turned 30 and then won his b2b MVP's. Then continued at a super elite level for another 4 years. He has as strong a case as anyone.

Am I in the twilight zone? Do you honestly think Nash's career post 30 is as impressive as MJs?

KnicksorBust
08-04-2015, 10:46 PM
Kaj, Duncan, Malone, Stockton and Nash all seem like they would be near the top here for me.

Issue for Kobe and Jordan in this is that they each don't have quite the same longevity after age 30 season. They were definitely great players and probably peak higher than others at an older age but probably played 2/3 the games that others on here have. If this list is based on longevity after 30 then they aren't really in the running, if it is high level play at age 30-34 then they are at the top.

If you had to rank them would you have Malone or Stockton higher? And do you think they should go back to back?

KnicksorBust
08-04-2015, 10:56 PM
MJ won 2 mvps and 3 straight titles after 30 and absolutely murders Nash's impact defensively and he doesn't even get referenced? Be serious.

Did you see make a list of 10 guys? Im at work you weirdo, I just responded to the question as quickly as I could. Just because MJ didnt make my top two within the 3 seconds I thought about it is no reason to throw a tantrum. Find somebody else to whine at, and find a legit reason to do so too.

Lol

Raps18-19 Champ
08-04-2015, 11:07 PM
Lebron James of course. Kevin Durant also had great career after 30 years old.

mngopher35
08-04-2015, 11:32 PM
If you had to rank them would you have Malone or Stockton higher? And do you think they should go back to back?

Really tough, I would probably have them right next to each other. I think Malone over Stockton is very fair and probably consensus but I have always thought Stockton was more helpful to Malone than the other way around (still behind Malone all time but closer together). Stockton played the same amount of years after 30 (and wasn't ever as bad as Lakers Malone), more games, but less minutes. Malone was better in early 30's and Stockton better late 30's comparatively.

Answer is probably Malone still but the Stockton homer in me wants to put him 1st haha.

KnicksorBust
08-04-2015, 11:38 PM
If you had to rank them would you have Malone or Stockton higher? And do you think they should go back to back?

Really tough, I would probably have them right next to each other. I think Malone over Stockton is very fair and probably consensus but I have always thought Stockton was more helpful to Malone than the other way around (still behind Malone all time but closer together). Stockton played the same amount of years after 30 (and wasn't ever as bad as Lakers Malone), more games, but less minutes. Malone was better in early 30's and Stockton better late 30's comparatively.

Answer is probably Malone still but the Stockton homer in me wants to put him 1st haha.

Hahaha. I hear ya.

To me Malone has become one of the most underrated players of all-time. Realistically how many players in the history of the league were as dedicated as him to staying in top shape? That is another top 5 he would be on.

mngopher35
08-04-2015, 11:50 PM
Hahaha. I hear ya.

To me Malone has become one of the most underrated players of all-time. Realistically how many players in the history of the league were as dedicated as him to staying in top shape? That is another top 5 he would be on.

I am not a big Malone fan so I probably fall into your idea of underrating him. I just can't overlook how his play dropped off in the post season so much. With that said I do understand why he is ranked highly and how impactful he was for so long.

If this were a who is in the best shape the longest then he for sure is top 5, even top 3 probably. I don't view him quite as exceptionally skilled big like some of the others who had great longevity (thinking TD/KAJ), but he was able to keep an athletic advantage for a long time which is pretty rare.

mrblisterdundee
08-05-2015, 01:59 AM
My rankings account for games played, individual performance and team success:

1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
2. Michael Jordan
3. Tim Duncan
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Hakeem Olajuwon
6. Robert Parish
7. Karl Malone
8. John Stockton
9. Ray Allen
10. Kevin Garnett

Phantom Dreamer
08-05-2015, 02:14 AM
Olajuwon had a fairly steep decline after 34.

mrblisterdundee
08-05-2015, 02:28 AM
Olajuwon had a fairly steep decline after 34.

Hakeem's big decline started in 1999-00, when he was 37. He dominated the first half of his 30s, winning two championships and an MVP. He was lesser in 1998-99, but I don't think averaging 18.9 points, 9.6 rebounds, 2.5 blocks, 1.6 steals and 1.8 assists per game at age 36 for all 50 games of the lockout season can be considered a steep decline. Overall, Hakeem played the 32nd most games of any professional basketball player ever.
His peak was so high, his defense so consistently good and his success so great, that I don't see how anyone below him could be above.

Hawkeye15
08-05-2015, 11:35 AM
Hahaha. I hear ya.

To me Malone has become one of the most underrated players of all-time. Realistically how many players in the history of the league were as dedicated as him to staying in top shape? That is another top 5 he would be on.

If Malone didn't have such large drop offs in offensive efficiency come playoff time, I would have him rated higher.

mightybosstone
08-07-2015, 03:45 PM
Going to try and do it off the top of my head.

Kareem
MJ
Kobe
Malone
Duncan
Hakeem
Shaq
Moses
West
Dirk

Every time this thread comes up you somehow manage to get more wrong each time. :D

FlashBolt
08-07-2015, 04:50 PM
If you have Kobe on your list, you need to read the question again or stop being a homer/troll. He has absolutely no argument to be in this.

KnicksorBust
08-07-2015, 05:42 PM
Going to try and do it off the top of my head.

Kareem
MJ
Kobe
Malone
Duncan
Hakeem
Shaq
Moses
West
Dirk

Every time this thread comes up you somehow manage to get more wrong each time. :D

Lol. Go ahead friend but don't start it unless you wanna finish it!!!

mightybosstone
08-08-2015, 10:54 AM
Whoops. Didn't read OP's post and misunderstood the concept behind it. OP should probably have made his thread title a little more clear, but that's on me for not reading in the first place.

ewing
08-08-2015, 11:03 AM
Where do I begin? I don't even have to bring up Kobe's name to crush your list, dude. You put Karl ****ing Malone and Dirk Nowitzki in a top 10 all-time list! Malone doesn't even crack my top 25! The man has one of the biggest dropoffs from regular season production to postseason production of any star player in any sport ever. There's a reason Utah never won a championship in the 80s and 90s, and it's not because they lacked for talent. It's because Malone is a massive underachiever. I'd gladly rank him behind Duncan, Barkley, KG and Dirk at the PF position. What justification could you possibly have for Malone in the top 10 outside of longevity, which is a weak *** argument?

And then there's Dirk... For starters, if a one-way, offensive-minded PF deserves to crack the top 10, it's Barkley, not Dirk. Barkley was the more efficient scorer and arguably the most dominant pound-for-pound rebounder in NBA history. The only arguments for Dirk over Barkley are longevity and titles. But if you want to bring titles into the conversation, then you're SERIOUSLY contradicting yourself by having Malone in your top 10.

But that brings me to the biggest omissions on this list: Magic, Bird, Wilt and Lebron. Now, the last guy could bring up a whole can of worms, but suffice it to say that I think anytime a player has dominated an era with this much talent for this long, won four MVPs, won two titles, make five straight Finals, dominate the international game, be the second most statistically dominant player in league history while becoming THE global icon for professional sports, he deserves to crack the top 10. As for the other guys, WTF? Magic and Bird were arguably the two best players in the league for a decade and won multiple championships in the 80s when there were a LOT of talented teams out there. How can you justify Malone or Dirk over these two guys? Hell, Dirk's game is essentially that of a poor man's Larry Bird. He's like Bird without the great rebound, distributing and above average defense.

And Wilt? I've typically been a Wilt hater for a long time, but the man was the most dominant professional athlete of the 1960s, is probably third in terms of overall statistical dominance behind MJ and Lebron, and I don't know how you leave him off of a top 10 list, even if he gets pushed toward the bottom. I'm a huge Moses guy, and even I don't think he deserves to go ahead of Wilt.

So, there it is. An argument without even bringing up Kobe Bryant. So let's here it, dude. How can you, in good conscience, justify a top 10 list with Malone, Dirk and Moses ranked ahead of Lebron, Magic, Bird and Wilt? I'm guessing this argument is going to be heavily, heavily based on longevity, and if it is, you've pretty much already lost the debate in my eyes. :shrug:


Did you read the OP's post?

mightybosstone
08-08-2015, 11:15 AM
Did you read the OP's post?

Nope. Fixed. :)

ManRam
08-08-2015, 02:33 PM
I found this hard to do. Always struggle juggling individual play, team accolades, longevity, regular season/playoff dichotomies, peak dominance, etc. But here's my attempt. I find myself going the "best career" vs. "best player" route here...which means more of a nod to longevity over peak dominance.

Feel strong about #1, feel there's a clear top-7 whose order I don't love at all...then it gets way tough again. I'd imagine this is all highly debatable and controversial.

Kareem - 929 games, 123.9 win shares, 11 ASG, 22.6 PER, MVP, Finals MVP, 5 rings...an obvious #1 choice

Karl - 824 games, 138.9 win shares, 8 ASG, 24.7 PER, 2 time MVP...the best regular season resume IMO, but playoffs were a mixed bag...still, individually I'm going to rate him very highly here because that longevity

Wilt - 502 games, 105.9 win shares, 6 ASG, 22.0 PER, 2 rings, 2 MVPs, 1 Finals MVP

Jordan - 405 games, 66.4 win shares, 5 ASG, 24.7 PER, 3 Finals MVP, 2 MVPs

Hakeem - 644 games, 79.4 win shares, 5 ASG, 23.5 PER, 2 rings, 2 Finals MVPs, MVP

Duncan - 665 games, 84.0 win shares, 7 ASG, 23.7 PER, 2 rings

Stockton - 852 games, 120.4 win shares, 6 ASG, 22.1 PER, again a tremendous regular season resume, but his playoffs knock him down a tad otherwise he


Honorable mentions in no order...all very different resumes:

D-Rob - 512 games, 82.1 win shares, 4 ASG, 24.6 PER, 2 rings

Kobe - 414 games, 49.3 win shares, 7 ASG, 22.5 PER, 2 Finals MVPs, 2 rings

Nash - 668 games, 81.6 win shares, 6 ASG, 21.1 PER, 2 MVPs

Parish - 1064 games (!), 94.7 win shares, 6 ASG, 18.1 PER, 3 rings (2 that "count")

I struggle with Kobe. I can't ignore those two Finals MVPs in the end though. He doesn't even come close to cracking probably a top-25 list here in terms of regular season play and longevity, but those championships in his 30 and 31 year-old seasons get him here. But arguments could be made for a lot of other guys who were far superior and longevity-ier in the regular, just didn't win two rings...guys like Kidd, Reggie, KG, Dirk, Dr. J, Moses and so on. I think it's tough distinguishing the bottom part of this list after Stockton.

(My stats are from their age 30 season per b-r.com and on...not actually the moment they turned 30)

KnicksorBust
08-08-2015, 06:07 PM
Whoops. Didn't read OP's post and misunderstood the concept behind it. OP should probably have made his thread title a little more clear, but that's on me for not reading in the first place.

:rolleyes:

Jeffy25
08-09-2015, 04:59 AM
Most Win Shares post 30


Malone - 138.7
Kareem - 123.9
Stockton - 120.4
Parish - 94.7
Miller - 93.8
Duncan - 84.0
Nash - 81.6
Hakeem - 79.4
Havlicek - 75.1
Payton - 72.5



Best PER (min 10,000 Points scored)

1. Malone - 24.7
2. Jordan - 24.7
3. Duncan - 23.7
4. Hakeem - 23.5
5. Kareem - 22.6
6. Kobe - 22.5
7. Dirk - 22.2
8. Stockton - 22.1
9. Erving - 21.9
10. Wilkins - 21.8
(Nash is 11th)