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View Full Version : NBA Rivalries: Are there any left?



HeatFan
08-02-2015, 10:56 PM
As a Heat fan I remember the Riley Heat against the Van Gundy Knicks and those series were brutal. Recall Alonzo Mourning dragging Van Gundy across the courts holding on to Mourning's leg. Then you had the Sacramento Kings vs Lakers, which was pretty fun to watch.

Right now I can't think of any interesting rivalry or any matchup that qualifies as such. I want to see GS against CLE again but that doesn't seem like a rivalry, and perhaps GS vs SA can be good. Thought about Clippers vs Mavs but I don't think the Mavs will be that good.

Have any other potential rivalry, or one existing I haven't thought about?

Scoots
08-02-2015, 11:24 PM
Clippers/Warriors has been fairly nasty for a few years, fights, ejections, lots of talk back and forth before during and after games.

IBleedPurple
08-02-2015, 11:40 PM
Not really. That requires elite players to stay with their teams and play against other elite players.

Cal827
08-03-2015, 12:32 AM
Tofuz vs the Knicks

GREATNESS ONE
08-03-2015, 01:57 AM
None.


But forever etched in stone; Lakers vs Celtics.

unleashthebeast
08-03-2015, 02:12 AM
Hopefully Heat vs Cavs becomes something this year. The potential is there

raiderposting
08-03-2015, 02:39 AM
Hopefully Heat vs Cavs becomes something this year. The potential is there

Not really an intense and nasty rivarly like the OP is talking about since it would feature best friends. Maybe a friendly rivarly though.

Chavacano
08-03-2015, 06:32 AM
None. Everybody's friends with everybody these days.

HeatFan
08-03-2015, 07:55 AM
None. Everybody's friends with everybody these days.

If the Mavs get better than maybe something there. The whole DeAndre vs Cuban. Its an owner involved but sometimes players back their management to some degree.

Munkeysuit
08-03-2015, 08:31 AM
Memphis vs LAC
LAC vs Warriors

Yanks All Day
08-03-2015, 08:50 AM
Well, because of AAU and now players going to college as packages, most of the players in the NBA have been friends much longer than players of past years. All the great players nowadays grew up together. The spend the off-seasons together. They train together. Heck, LeBron and Durant finished going at each other in the 2012 NBA Finals and then practiced together in the off-season. These guys are all friends. The days of players hating each other because of a different jersey are gone.

Team rivalries are also gone as a result of it. But moreso because the teams that have been at the top have been class-act organizations. The Spurs might be the classiest team in all of sports. They play their way and win/lose with grace. The Heat and Cavs teams have been the same way. Love or hate LeBron, his teams have been above the chippiness. The Warriors play high-class basketball. Their scrappiest player is Draymond Green, and even he plays mostly clean basketball. It's not the same as old days because the good teams aren't the ones throwing the hard fouls around anymore. Even the second-tier teams don't do that. Basketball is being played at an extremely high level in part because of that. Now, if we see a team get chippy, it's mostly because they are losing, and everyone acknowledges that.

Rivalries used to exist because players on good teams hated each other. That's just not the case anymore. The best players on the great teams are all friends. In reality, with all the community outreach the NBA tries to accomplish these days, that's actually a very good thing for the league.

JasonJohnHorn
08-03-2015, 10:26 AM
LAC is the only team I see as really taking rivalries seriously. the Clippers/Warriors is pretty tight. I wish they'd had met in the conference finals.

I expect the Heat/Pacers and Heat/Bulls were pretty intense. I expect the Washington/Cavs to start back up like they did when LBJ was schooling Arenas and company.

kingkenny01
08-03-2015, 10:52 AM
Thats the problem when divisions don't really matter and most teams make the playoffs, it kills rivalries.

Tony_Starks
08-03-2015, 11:18 AM
The Super Team "if you can't beat em join em" movement kindof killed the rivalries. A lot of these players today don't have the heart for it. You have throwback players like Westbrook or D Rose who aren't with that cornball stuff but for the most part these guys want the easiest path to a ring, they don't care if they have to join the competition to do it.

I saw this interview with CWebb where he said he didn't want to play with Tim Duncan he wanted to beat Tim Duncan. Unfortunately a lot of players these days aren't built like that anymore.....

curtcocaine
08-03-2015, 11:25 AM
Rockets Warriors is my fav

Scoots
08-03-2015, 11:45 AM
Clippers Warriors, there is no love lost. The Warriors didn't know the Clippers hated them until the Clippers refused to attend chapel services pre-game. It was pretty funny, the Warriors players were all wondering what was going on. Curry and Paul are long time buddies, but on the court they are trying to humiliate each other ... like it used to be. Doc and Draymond have certainly increased the volume of the rivalry. I wonder what will be lost with Matt Barnes attitude no longer being in LA?

Warriors Rockets is probably too civil to really get good unless they meat in the WCF a few years in a row and the Rockets win more regular season games.

Chicago seems to hate everybody but nobody else seems to care about it anymore.

beasted86
08-03-2015, 11:51 AM
Knicks fans VS. Raptors fans

Vee-Rex
08-03-2015, 12:08 PM
Knicks fans VS. Raptors fans

Ahahaha, I was about to start getting into fans.

Rockets fans vs. Warriors fans for me.

Vee-Rex
08-03-2015, 12:09 PM
I also love seeing Bulls fans vs. Heat fans

Scoots
08-03-2015, 12:46 PM
Certain fans for every team are annoying that is for sure :)

Including a few for the team I follow no doubt.

KG2TB
08-03-2015, 12:47 PM
The Bulls/Cavs have potential to be a good rivalry because of the history between Chicago and LeBron...although, it would help dramatically if Chicago can actually win for a change :)

Bulls/Wiz also have a history of physical play and altercations in the playoffs and even the pre-season. I remember someone on the Wiz saying they wish they could play the Bulls 82x a year. I was really hoping we would have met in the playoffs and settle the score at full health, but it didn't happen, and Wall went down anyways.

Unfortunately, I don't think we're going to see a Lakers\Celtics, Bulls\Knicks type rivalry because guys not only change teams more, but those series happened to have some of the best players of all time who also embraced a physical style of play.

Pierzynski4Prez
08-03-2015, 01:01 PM
Memphis vs LAC
LAC vs Warriors

These 2.

Bulls vs. LBJ

That's about it. God I miss those Heat/Knicks games of the late 90s, Bulls/Pistons of the late 80s.

RLundi
08-03-2015, 01:29 PM
Ahahaha, I was about to start getting into fans.

Rockets fans vs. Warriors fans for me.

Also, Vee-Rex vs. anyone that says anything even remotely negative (even if true) about the Cavs team he pledges his soul, allegiance and first born to.

Vee-Rex
08-03-2015, 01:46 PM
Also, Vee-Rex vs. anyone that says anything even remotely negative (even if true) about the Cavs team he pledges his soul, allegiance and first born to.

kevinloveisstillplayingforthecavs

RLundi
08-03-2015, 04:15 PM
kevinloveisstillplayingforthecavs

Youstillare14yearsold.

Bruno
08-03-2015, 06:56 PM
you see it out west a little here and there. the Clippers are a big contributor. Clippers-Grizzlies, Clippers-Houston, Clippers-Golden State, the Texas teams vs each other. You don't see it back east as much recently. mainly because all the best players in that conference are close friends, and because so many of the teams have been too bad for too long to have been a part of any relevant rivalry. I think the pending Golden State/OKC rivalry will define the WC playoff bracket through the end of the decade.

it will also be very interesting to see who challenges Davis and becomes his rival/s.

Clippersfan86
08-03-2015, 07:09 PM
LAC is the only team I see as really taking rivalries seriously. the Clippers/Warriors is pretty tight. I wish they'd had met in the conference finals.

I expect the Heat/Pacers and Heat/Bulls were pretty intense. I expect the Washington/Cavs to start back up like they did when LBJ was schooling Arenas and company.

Don't forget Clippers vs Grizzlies. I think LAC vs GS and LAC vs MEM are two of the top rivalries in the NBA.

Clippersfan86
08-03-2015, 07:18 PM
Clippers Warriors, there is no love lost. The Warriors didn't know the Clippers hated them until the Clippers refused to attend chapel services pre-game. It was pretty funny, the Warriors players were all wondering what was going on. Curry and Paul are long time buddies, but on the court they are trying to humiliate each other ... like it used to be. Doc and Draymond have certainly increased the volume of the rivalry. I wonder what will be lost with Matt Barnes attitude no longer being in LA?

Warriors Rockets is probably too civil to really get good unless they meat in the WCF a few years in a row and the Rockets win more regular season games.

Chicago seems to hate everybody but nobody else seems to care about it anymore.

The game where the Warriors openly celebrated TWO bad Blake Griffin misses with a crazy celebration on the bench.. was before the chapel thing. Also two years ago you had David Lee+Klay trash talking the Clippers before the playoffs series, although the Clippers had NEVER said anything about them before. Clippers refused to attend chapel with them BECAUSE of some of these types of antics. I'd say this was instigated by the Warriors far more than the other way around. You have guys like Bogut committing dirty plays for what? Look at these encounters and tell me who instigated them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV9qhQ2Pqcg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En4E63Y7dkk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoREDLoMz3E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1bqLZPoXjc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbXqh2jC87U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrhpbBYMvt8

Video of few combined.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YG6dziNCDTA


This is why I laugh when the Warriors are well liked despite these antics, but the Clippers hated for their drama.

Clippersfan86
08-03-2015, 07:21 PM
Warriors may not act like it in general, but against the Clippers they are truly classless. MUCH worse than the Grizzlies. Grizzlies have been a bit dirty against us, but nowhere near as classless or annoying with their antics. I'll probably get a few Warriors fans jumping on me for this, but if they set aside bias and watch the film, listen to the interviews I'll be proven right.

Scoots
08-03-2015, 07:52 PM
The game where the Warriors openly celebrated TWO bad Blake Griffin misses with a crazy celebration on the bench.. was before the chapel thing. Also two years ago you had David Lee+Klay trash talking the Clippers before the playoffs series, although the Clippers had NEVER said anything about them before. Clippers refused to attend chapel with them BECAUSE of some of these types of antics. I'd say this was instigated by the Warriors far more than the other way around. You have guys like Bogut committing dirty plays for what? Look at these encounters and tell me who instigated them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV9qhQ2Pqcg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En4E63Y7dkk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoREDLoMz3E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1bqLZPoXjc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbXqh2jC87U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrhpbBYMvt8

Video of few combined.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YG6dziNCDTA


This is why I laugh when the Warriors are well liked despite these antics, but the Clippers hated for their drama.

I didn't say the Warriors hadn't done/said anything to/about/near the Clippers, but that they just thought it was fun ... they didn't realize the Clippers really hated them until the Chapel thing.

Scoots
08-03-2015, 07:54 PM
Warriors may not act like it in general, but against the Clippers they are truly classless. MUCH worse than the Grizzlies. Grizzlies have been a bit dirty against us, but nowhere near as classless or annoying with their antics. I'll probably get a few Warriors fans jumping on me for this, but if they set aside bias and watch the film, listen to the interviews I'll be proven right.

You do realize it's not one sided right? Matt Barnes, CP3, Griffin, Jordan, and then Rivers who LOVES to stir the pot. The "hard fouls" and trash talk are certainly not all coming from the Warriors in that series ... it's just that lately the Warriors have been winning in those categories too. :)

Scoots
08-03-2015, 08:23 PM
The game where the Warriors openly celebrated TWO bad Blake Griffin misses with a crazy celebration on the bench.. was before the chapel thing. Also two years ago you had David Lee+Klay trash talking the Clippers before the playoffs series, although the Clippers had NEVER said anything about them before. Clippers refused to attend chapel with them BECAUSE of some of these types of antics. I'd say this was instigated by the Warriors far more than the other way around. You have guys like Bogut committing dirty plays for what? Look at these encounters and tell me who instigated them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV9qhQ2Pqcg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En4E63Y7dkk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoREDLoMz3E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1bqLZPoXjc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbXqh2jC87U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrhpbBYMvt8

Video of few combined.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YG6dziNCDTA


This is why I laugh when the Warriors are well liked despite these antics, but the Clippers hated for their drama.

On the BAD shots by Blake ... who wouldn't make fun of him for that? At the end it wasn't the Warriors announcer saying "Griffin on the 3 ball ... more like a 2 and a half ball". If the Clippers had their feelings hurt by that, well that's just the clippers.

Clippersfan86
08-03-2015, 11:51 PM
On the BAD shots by Blake ... who wouldn't make fun of him for that? At the end it wasn't the Warriors announcer saying "Griffin on the 3 ball ... more like a 2 and a half ball". If the Clippers had their feelings hurt by that, well that's just the clippers.

In my 16 years of watching the Clippers (I watch 75-80 games a year on average, often times all 82+) this is the only time I've seen a bench mock a player like this for a bad shot.

JLynn943
08-04-2015, 12:36 AM
In my 16 years of watching the Clippers (I watch 75-80 games a year on average, often times all 82+) this is the only time I've seen a bench mock a player like this for a bad shot.

It goes both ways. Chris Paul was taunting the Kings bench a couple of years ago in the 3rd quarter of an easy game for no reason.

The Clippers tend to bring out the most hate from other teams. If the Kings were good enough that it actually mattered (who knows, hopefully this year), there's enough disdain between the Kings and Clippers to consider it something of a rivalry. Cousins and Chris Paul have a history for sure, the games are often very physical, and they're divisional foes.

Vee-Rex
08-04-2015, 12:59 AM
Youstillare14yearsold.

You're the one that can't get over me like a girl and her ex. Keep following my posts in different threads like a sobbing *****.

Must hurt pretty badly being called out for guaranteeing Kevin Love was bolting lol.

goingfor28
08-04-2015, 01:13 AM
I'd have to say LAC and GS would be the best right now. Neither team likes each other, always seems to be some kind of extracurricular activities every time they play. Most games are very close. Clips knocked out GS 2 yrs ago and now GS won the title. Clips reloaded a bit the offsets on and GS should is obviously the team to beat right now, I'm looking forward to them playing next year no doubt.

Kyben36
08-04-2015, 01:23 AM
Bulls allways seem to be the Anti East. meaning, whatever team is on top, they are there to be against them. Boston Back in the Day. Miami, Cleveland. it just hasnt worked unfortunately.

Clippersfan86
08-04-2015, 01:30 AM
It goes both ways. Chris Paul was taunting the Kings bench a couple of years ago in the 3rd quarter of an easy game for no reason.

The Clippers tend to bring out the most hate from other teams. If the Kings were good enough that it actually mattered (who knows, hopefully this year), there's enough disdain between the Kings and Clippers to consider it something of a rivalry. Cousins and Chris Paul have a history for sure, the games are often very physical, and they're divisional foes.

Again if we are being technical, the Kings have instigated far more of that extracurricular. Cousins started it with Blake 4 years ago consistently. Then Cousins injured Redick on an unnecessary foul. Cousins not letting IT shake CP3's hand. In general that issue is 100 percent CP3 vs Cousins, because since then... Griffin and Cousins have made up. So while I agree, it's a heated H2H game, it's very much limited to just two guys.

PS... CP3 taunting a Kings bench that was getting into it with him after he hits a shot is very different IMO than an unprovoked bench celebration of a player missing a shot. Blake didn't have something going with that bench, it was just them trying to clown him just because. I know that's all opinion and bias, but it feels very different to me.

JLynn943
08-04-2015, 01:50 AM
Again if we are being technical, the Kings have instigated far more of that extracurricular. Cousins started it with Blake 4 years ago consistently. Then Cousins injured Redick on an unnecessary foul. Cousins not letting IT shake CP3's hand. In general that issue is 100 percent CP3 vs Cousins, because since then... Griffin and Cousins have made up. So while I agree, it's a heated H2H game, it's very much limited to just two guys.

PS... CP3 taunting a Kings bench that was getting into it with him after he hits a shot is very different IMO than an unprovoked bench celebration of a player missing a shot. Blake didn't have something going with that bench, it was just them trying to clown him just because. I know that's all opinion and bias, but it feels very different to me.

It goes both ways haha. I don't think it's actually been one side more than the other instigating, though as a Kings fan I certainly feel like it's more the Clippers. Personally, I felt that taunting was totally classless since the Kings were, well, the Kings and the game wasn't really that close. Cousins and CP3 are definitely the primary sources now and Cousins vs DJ is a fun battle even if it doesn't get dirty, but I think the potential is there at least for a rivalry to develop if the Kings become relevant. There's no love lost between the two.

matnautico
08-04-2015, 02:27 AM
Nets-Raptors has really grown in the last few years...

naps
08-04-2015, 03:18 AM
The Super Team "if you can't beat em join em" movement kindof killed the rivalries. A lot of these players today don't have the heart for it. You have throwback players like Westbrook or D Rose who aren't with that cornball stuff but for the most part these guys want the easiest path to a ring, they don't care if they have to join the competition to do it.

I saw this interview with CWebb where he said he didn't want to play with Tim Duncan he wanted to beat Tim Duncan. Unfortunately a lot of players these days aren't built like that anymore.....

And how did that turn out for Cwebb? That's just stupid. One player can't beat a superior team so that mentality is just stupid and foolish. A great player needs a great team to beat other superior teams. Pretty simple stuff. Great players should have great teams around them. No point of wasting prime years like Kevin Garnett did in Minnesota. I mean not all the players were not lucky to be drafted by the lakers and celtics or other constant contenders. We have seen a great player wanted to leave a constant contender badly when **** got tough for a few years...

Clippersfan86
08-04-2015, 10:03 AM
It goes both ways haha. I don't think it's actually been one side more than the other instigating, though as a Kings fan I certainly feel like it's more the Clippers. Personally, I felt that taunting was totally classless since the Kings were, well, the Kings and the game wasn't really that close. Cousins and CP3 are definitely the primary sources now and Cousins vs DJ is a fun battle even if it doesn't get dirty, but I think the potential is there at least for a rivalry to develop if the Kings become relevant. There's no love lost between the two.

Oh no doubt. There is some legit distain. As someone said earlier pretty much anyone vs the Clippers because they are so disliked. Honestly at this point the Clippers may as well embrace the villain role like the old Pistons teams and just say **** it. Everyone hates you and wants to see you fail, so keep adding fuel to the fire. I wish Blake and DJ were tougher. They aren't soft, but I wish they were more prone to foul hard or throw a punch.

kdspurman
08-04-2015, 10:38 AM
Out west you've got some rivalries for sure. Not so much in the East. Maybe in the next few years some will develop

b_russ
08-04-2015, 10:51 AM
If the Jazz can improve then maybe the Houston/Utah rivalry can come back. It dates back to the Malone/Stockton vs Olajuwon/Drexler teams through to the D-Will vs T-Mac/Yao years. The fanbases can't stand each other.

Scoots
08-04-2015, 11:30 AM
Oh no doubt. There is some legit distain. As someone said earlier pretty much anyone vs the Clippers because they are so disliked. Honestly at this point the Clippers may as well embrace the villain role like the old Pistons teams and just say **** it. Everyone hates you and wants to see you fail, so keep adding fuel to the fire. I wish Blake and DJ were tougher. They aren't soft, but I wish they were more prone to foul hard or throw a punch.

I always assumed Doc did it on purpose so he could use the "everybody is against us" motivation. CP3 is an all-pro complainer and that's been true for a long time, Crawford draws fouls with his leg kicks and flops that piss people off, Griffin flops and complains (learning from Doc and CP3) and since he's a big that means opposing players are hitting him harder and more figuring that if he's going to flop they may as well get their moneys worth, Jordan seems to complain almost as much as Griffin does now ... and then there is Matt Barnes ... I don't need to say anything about him because everybody knows. There are real reasons to hate the Clippers, and all that was true before the racist owner was replaced by the screaming billionaire.

One thing I noticed ... none of the players celebrating Blake's misses were on the team the next year.

Vee-Rex
08-04-2015, 11:38 AM
If the Jazz can improve then maybe the Houston/Utah rivalry can come back. It dates back to the Malone/Stockton vs Olajuwon/Drexler teams through to the D-Will vs T-Mac/Yao years. The fanbases can't stand each other.

Ahh, I used to love the Jazz/Rockets rivalry. Would be cool to see if it can be revived.

Clippersfan86
08-04-2015, 11:49 AM
Scoots that's all perception. I think there are reasons to like the Clippers as well. Also Blake hasn't flopped much since the one bad year in 2012 when CP3 joined the team.

RLundi
08-04-2015, 12:17 PM
You're the one that can't get over me like a girl and her ex. Keep following my posts in different threads like a sobbing *****.

Must hurt pretty badly being called out for guaranteeing Kevin Love was bolting lol.

Shut the **** up you piece of ****. You've quoted me randomly several times and brought up this whole Kevin Love thing. So again, shut the **** up, ****ing hypocritical dirtbag homer.

Vee-Rex
08-04-2015, 12:57 PM
Shut the **** up you piece of ****. You've quoted me randomly several times and brought up this whole Kevin Love thing. So again, shut the **** up, ****ing hypocritical dirtbag homer.

Mad much?

We're all wrong sometimes. You must have felt so CERTAIN that he was leaving with how you're reacting right now. Just chill out, man. Let it go.

I'm done talking about it as long as you don't make me your life's mission on PSD.

Scoots
08-04-2015, 02:01 PM
Scoots that's all perception. I think there are reasons to like the Clippers as well. Also Blake hasn't flopped much since the one bad year in 2012 when CP3 joined the team.

What about all of this isn't perception :) None of us are true insiders, it's all what we see and we hear interpreted by others.

Doc definitely still talks trash, and if you need me to I can find examples.

CP3 definitely still complains a LOT.

Barnes is still a troublemaker ... but he's someone elses now.

Crawford complains almost as much as CP3 in his per minute stats :)

I actually really like Griffin off the floor, and he's an incredibly skilled 4 on the floor ... but it's not like his antics have only got a response from the Warriors bigs. The entire NBA plays him physical. It's also disingenuous to think he doesn't do his share of grabbing, hooking, pulling, going over the back, and undercutting (if you do think that). There is also the poster factor going against him.

The Clippers, largely because of Doc and CP3, have a reputation.

Zefflin
08-04-2015, 08:57 PM
If the Jazz can improve then maybe the Houston/Utah rivalry can come back. It dates back to the Malone/Stockton vs Olajuwon/Drexler teams through to the D-Will vs T-Mac/Yao years. The fanbases can't stand each other.

pipe dreams now that dante reportedly tore his acl

da ThRONe
08-04-2015, 10:25 PM
Nope and it's tough to create rivalries the way the league is built. They took all the bad blood out when they took away the hard fouls. Now that all the best players in the world establish friendships way before they are in league there's no reason for animosity among players. Plus the league lets more then half the teams into the post season. You play the same teams only a handful of times and winning the division doesn't mean much in the NBA.

Clippersfan86
08-05-2015, 01:14 AM
What about all of this isn't perception :) None of us are true insiders, it's all what we see and we hear interpreted by others.

Doc definitely still talks trash, and if you need me to I can find examples.

CP3 definitely still complains a LOT.

Barnes is still a troublemaker ... but he's someone elses now.

Crawford complains almost as much as CP3 in his per minute stats :)

I actually really like Griffin off the floor, and he's an incredibly skilled 4 on the floor ... but it's not like his antics have only got a response from the Warriors bigs. The entire NBA plays him physical. It's also disingenuous to think he doesn't do his share of grabbing, hooking, pulling, going over the back, and undercutting (if you do think that). There is also the poster factor going against him.

The Clippers, largely because of Doc and CP3, have a reputation.

Thats fair. I don't think the Clippers help themselves with all the complaining and stuff. But it's a vicious cycle because refs DO indeed screw them with ****** reffing often and then they complain, which makes refs Crack down even more. It's a no win situation really.

Tony_Starks
08-05-2015, 09:33 AM
The Super Team "if you can't beat em join em" movement kindof killed the rivalries. A lot of these players today don't have the heart for it. You have throwback players like Westbrook or D Rose who aren't with that cornball stuff but for the most part these guys want the easiest path to a ring, they don't care if they have to join the competition to do it.

I saw this interview with CWebb where he said he didn't want to play with Tim Duncan he wanted to beat Tim Duncan. Unfortunately a lot of players these days aren't built like that anymore.....

And how did that turn out for Cwebb? That's just stupid. One player can't beat a superior team so that mentality is just stupid and foolish. A great player needs a great team to beat other superior teams. Pretty simple stuff. Great players should have great teams around them. No point of wasting prime years like Kevin Garnett did in Minnesota. I mean not all the players were not lucky to be drafted by the lakers and celtics or other constant contenders. We have seen a great player wanted to leave a constant contender badly when **** got tough for a few years...

Well how it turned out for C Webb is that he was one of the greatest players of his franchise ever, went toe to toe in one of the best most competitive playoff rivalries, and finished a hall of fame career turning a laughing stock team into a legitimate contender that pushed his rivals to their limit instead of joining them to ring chase.

...if you're into that sort of thing