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View Full Version : Did Jordan Make The Right Call?



SportsFanatic10
07-28-2015, 11:32 PM
So we now know what the deal the Celtics offered to the Hornets for the 9th pick(they wanted Winslow) was. After the draft when the initial reports of Jordan turning down a big offer from Boston came out, it was rumored to have been 3 1st round picks and 2 2nd rounders. Turns out it was 4 1sts...


"The Celtics offered four first-round picks for the chance to move up from no. 16 to no. 9: that 16th pick, no. 15 (acquired in a prearranged contingency deal with the Hawks), one unprotected future Brooklyn pick, and a future first-rounder from either the Grizzlies or Timberwolves, per sources familiar with the talks.

Some members of Charlotte’s front office liked the Boston deal, but Michael Jordan, the team’s owner and ultimate decision-maker, preferred Kaminsky to a pile of first-rounders outside the lottery, per several sources."

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/28/report-michael-jordan-shot-down-boston-draft-day-effort-to-get-charlotte-no-9-pick/


So do you think Jordan made another mistake as GM, or did he make the right call? I guess this mostly depends on how much you like Kaminsky, Jordan must really think he'll turn into a star. A separate report after the draft said that Boston offered the same deal to Miami for the 10th pick, but Riley turned it down and scooped up Winslow. So as another talking point, did Riley make the right call? Discuss...

Tony_Starks
07-29-2015, 12:09 AM
Nah, don't think he made "another" mistake. I like Kaminsky, balled out in the tourney and may end up being one of the better players in this draft.

5ass
07-29-2015, 12:42 AM
Yeah I like Kaminsky too. Only time will tell. That's a lot of draft picks, but if you find a player you like you have to take him.

FOXHOUND
07-29-2015, 12:56 AM
Yes, NBA rosters only have 15 players and top 10 picks are far more valuable than mid range or lower. You don't want 4 quarters instead of 1 dollar, to paraphrase Bill Simmons.

AarickBox
07-29-2015, 03:26 AM
i can see it from both sides. on one hand he wanted kaminsky since he thinks he makes the team better and will help them win.

but on the other hand he could have used some of those assets he would have got in the trade to acquire kaminsky anyway. for instance trade pick 9 for all those picks then on trade pick 15 and their first next year to whoever drafts kaminksy. or 15,16 and their first next year. or just 15,16. then they have the player they want and assets for later, mainly that brooklyn unprotected pick.

hugepatsfan
07-29-2015, 08:32 AM
Yes, NBA rosters only have 15 players and top 10 picks are far more valuable than mid range or lower. You don't want 4 quarters instead of 1 dollar, to paraphrase Bill Simmons.

True but I think they hyped themselves into believing Frank the Tank is a dollar instead of the quarter I believe he is. It's not like they stayed and took Winslow. They decided to pass on the "dollar" available and take a single quarter when they could have at least traded the pick for 4 quarters IMO. But that's just my opinion and while I could find "credible" opinions that support mine there are also people higher on Frank the Tank, obviously some residing in the CHA draft room. At the end of the day they have to be honest with themselves and trust their own evaluations so we'll see how it works out for them. It just seems to me like they fell in love with a marginal talent and passed up an opportunity for better value either by taking Winslow or accepting the Celtics' trade offer. My power rankings of the options would have been 1) Winslow 2) trade with BOS 3) Frank the Tank. So for example, I think Riley was smart to pass on the offer at the next pick.

FOXHOUND
07-29-2015, 08:47 AM
True but I think they hyped themselves into believing Frank the Tank is a dollar instead of the quarter I believe he is. It's not like they stayed and took Winslow. They decided to pass on the "dollar" available and take a single quarter when they could have at least traded the pick for 4 quarters IMO. But that's just my opinion and while I could find "credible" opinions that support mine there are also people higher on Frank the Tank, obviously some residing in the CHA draft room. At the end of the day they have to be honest with themselves and trust their own evaluations so we'll see how it works out for them. It just seems to me like they fell in love with a marginal talent and passed up an opportunity for better value either by taking Winslow or accepting the Celtics' trade offer. My power rankings of the options would have been 1) Winslow 2) trade with BOS 3) Frank the Tank. So for example, I think Riley was smart to pass on the offer at the next pick.

I'm not that high on Kaminsky either, it's just the value of those draft choices. Kaminsky may end up being less than a "dollar" player, but by the same token mid round picks and later may not even end up as quarters.

mightybosstone
07-29-2015, 08:59 AM
With any draft scenario, the only real answer is "only time will tell." It's possible Kaminsky could develop into an All-Star caliber player and those picks will amount to nothing. Or it's possible those picks will end up being far more valuable and Kaminsky will amount to nothing. As of right now, I don't think you can fault the guy for sticking with the guy he wanted in the draft. Sometimes you have to stick with your gut.

On a side note, OP may want to clarify his thread titles a little better in the future. I came in here expecting to discuss DeAndre Jordan's decision to come back to the Clippers. Clearly that was the biggest decision by a Jordan this NBA offseason so far.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
07-29-2015, 09:05 AM
Them are all late picks other then maybe the unprotected Nets pick. But still weak east Nets could pull off win now trades just to make that pick late. All late picks which #15 on down are barely starters also depending on the draft if its deep or weak. Rather have quality over quantity. Yeah if the Nets pick is better then #9 then yeah but still depends on that draft from this draft.

OA SLAY
07-29-2015, 10:13 AM
Other than drafting Kemba over Freddette, I don't think he ever has.

IndyRealist
07-29-2015, 10:39 AM
People are seriously overvaluing NBA scouting if they think there's a huge difference between a #9 pick and a #15 pick. Picking a random year in the draft, 2013, #9 was Trey Burke and #15 was Giannis Antetokounmpo. I'm not saying every year is that lopsided, but there are players available every year in the late teens and 20s and that have better careers than most of the lottery picks. It's a question of whether the evaluators can find those people or not. If you trust your talent evaluator (in this case, Rich Cho) to find guys other people miss, then you need to give him as much ammo in the form of draft picks as possible.

Higher is better because more players are available, but the idea that you can't find just as good of a player 6 picks later is kind of ridiculous.

phantasyyy
07-29-2015, 12:58 PM
I think Jordan messed up big time.. the 15/16th pick and unprotected Brooklyn and another first all for just the #9 pick? Its not like the Hornets contenders at this point and they need all the assets they can get.. But I guess Jordan doesn't see it that way seeing as how he traded his young assets for a proven Batum. Not to mention Brooklyn is set to be bad in the near future.

I just don't understand the logic of trading Stephenson for Hawes and his 3 years guaranteed, and you turn around and pick Kaminsky who pretty much has the same skill set as Hawes.

Riley did the right thing turning down the trade seeing as how they are set to be contenders in the East and additional guaranteed first round rookie deals would just hamper their ability to make trades. Not to mention Winslow dropping that far was a shock.

mngopher35
07-29-2015, 01:25 PM
They must be pretty high on frank and I won't bash them for sticking with their scouting if that is the case (until we see results).

Personally though I would take the picks. Nets pick might be better than what you have and then you get picks 15 and 16 on top of that. I think it is very possible they could still use those two picks and still try for frank, but it's a risk. Even if they missed getting a couple of like oubre/Vaughn/portis and two other firsts is good value.

Flip did something similar trading burke for shabazz and dieng which has worked out nicely (wish we had a unprotected nets pick with that haha).

SportsFanatic10
07-29-2015, 01:59 PM
On a side note, OP may want to clarify his thread titles a little better in the future. I came in here expecting to discuss DeAndre Jordan's decision to come back to the Clippers. Clearly that was the biggest decision by a Jordan this NBA offseason so far.

Ya sorry my bad. I actually thought of that for a moment and meant to go back and change the title to MJ instead, but by the time I finished the post I forgot and just submitted it lol.

Kyben36
07-29-2015, 02:02 PM
I think that the Nets pick, and the potential other pick could have been very valuable. also, i dont like Kaminsky will be that good.

SportsFanatic10
07-29-2015, 02:16 PM
With the 15th and 16th picks the Hornets could of taken two of these players: Kelly Oubre, Jerian Grant, Bobby Portis, and Sam Dekker among others. I think there was some potentially good players there, and then still have the nets unprotected first as well as another 1st.

Personally I'm not high on Kaminsky, I don't like his lack of athleticism and poor defense. He's kinda already nearly as good as he will become imo. He's already got the passing, shooting, ball handling for a big down, sure he can make those qualities even better, but I don't see him having a really high ceiling with plenty of room for improvement to his game. Also sure he balled out in the tourney, but I think part of that was a 4 year senior being a man amongst boys.

I was scared that Riley might take him, so I was really happy with how things turned out. But we'll see how he and his game translate. One thing I want to at least mention in Jordan's and the Hornets defense is that they didn't have much time to make the decision, and also hadn't focused on the draft research wise in the 15/16 range to the same extent as they had at 9. Here's a quote from the same article

“You have two minutes to decide: ‘Do I want to do this trade?’” says (Curtis) Polk, one of five men atop Charlotte’s decision tree. “You don’t have a day. You don’t have hours. After all the intelligence we’d done, we were comfortable with Frank. But now you have two minutes to decide if you make this trade, who you’re gonna take at no. 16, or maybe no. 20, and we haven’t been focusing on that range. In fantasy basketball, it sounds great: ‘Oh my god, they could have gotten all those picks.’ But in the real world, I’m not sure it makes us better.” Adds Rich Cho, the team’s GM: “If it was such a no-brainer for us, why would another team want to do it?”

Those are some good points, and that's part of why I find this offer fascinating because it's so hard to tell what the right move would of been at this point in time. Down the road we'll know for sure, but right now it's fun to predict. If I were in Jordan's shoes I would have taken the deal, or have drafted Winslow instead of Frank, but that's just me and I understand the other side of it.

phantasyyy
07-29-2015, 02:31 PM
With the 15th and 16th picks the Hornets could of taken two of these players: Kelly Oubre, Jerian Grant, Bobby Portis, and Sam Dekker among others. I think there was some potentially good players there, and then still have the nets unprotected first as well as another 1st.

Personally I'm not high on Kaminsky, I don't like his lack of athleticism and poor defense. He's kinda already nearly as good as he will become imo. He's already got the passing, shooting, ball handling for a big down, sure he can make those qualities even better, but I don't see him having a really high ceiling with plenty of room for improvement to his game. Also sure he balled out in the tourney, but I think part of that was a 4 year senior being a man amongst boys.

I was scared that Riley might take him, so I was really happy with how things turned out. But we'll see how he and his game translate. One thing I want to at least mention in Jordan's and the Hornets defense is that they didn't have much time to make the decision, and also hadn't focused on the draft research wise in the 15/16 range to the same extent as they had at 9. Here's a quote from the same article

“You have two minutes to decide: ‘Do I want to do this trade?’” says (Curtis) Polk, one of five men atop Charlotte’s decision tree. “You don’t have a day. You don’t have hours. After all the intelligence we’d done, we were comfortable with Frank. But now you have two minutes to decide if you make this trade, who you’re gonna take at no. 16, or maybe no. 20, and we haven’t been focusing on that range. In fantasy basketball, it sounds great: ‘Oh my god, they could have gotten all those picks.’ But in the real world, I’m not sure it makes us better.” Adds Rich Cho, the team’s GM: “If it was such a no-brainer for us, why would another team want to do it?”

Those are some good points, and that's part of why I find this offer fascinating because it's so hard to tell what the right move would of been at this point in time. Down the road we'll know for sure, but right now it's fun to predict. If I were in Jordan's shoes I would have taken the deal, or have drafted Winslow instead of Frank, but that's just me and I understand the other side of it.

In a way that does speak to the incompetence of their front office if they only scouted within their draft spot. Most teams have a draft board of BPA and work down the list as players get chosen. To say that they only prepared for players within 9th pick range and didn't do the trade because the didn't have enough info on the other players is terrible imo.

JasonJohnHorn
07-29-2015, 08:06 PM
Let's face it... the guys picked fro 6-16.... it's a guessing game. You can get just as big of a dud at 6 as you can at 16, and you can get just as much of a steal at 16 as you can at 6.

2001 had 8 All-Stars: only only two of them picked higher than 9.
2002 have 4 AS: only 1 picked higher than 9.
2004 have 4: only 2 picked higher than 9
2005 had 5 AS: Only 2 picked higher than 9
2006 had 5 AS: only 2 picked higher than 9


In most seasons, there are more All-Stars after 9 than before it. If you get to pick one number 8, or 4 top 15's, take the 4 top 15's. If you have a good GM, and good scouting, you'll do GREAT.

If you don't, have a great GM, then you are taking a big chance that he'll get that one right.

Besides, Brooklyn's is bound to be high.