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AllBall
07-27-2015, 01:48 PM
I keep seeing them placed in the Top 5 in the East on this board. That team is on the decline. Their core with Noah and Paul has regressed. Health is always in question with Rose. It's good they kept Butler, but they should have made more moves. There is still time I suppose for that to happen. The biggest thing being overlooked is coaching. Thibs was a bigger factor than people make it, he squeezed wins out of that team where there otherwise would not have been any. I just don't see Top 5 happening not with their rookie college coach and even in the East, which has teams like Milwaukee better positioning itself.

IndyRealist
07-27-2015, 02:04 PM
PAU had his best season in years. Butler is young and will get better. They basically play without Rose and Noah already, so if they get either back full time it's bonus.

HandsOnTheWheel
07-27-2015, 02:06 PM
.

NYKnickFanatic
07-27-2015, 02:06 PM
Same could be said for that HEAT.

Pierzynski4Prez
07-27-2015, 02:06 PM
Who are the 4 teams ahead of them in the East for 2015-2016 after Cleveland?

mngopher35
07-27-2015, 02:06 PM
This is the team that almost had the cavs down 3-1 (I believe that was the blatt non timeout lebron gw game).

So with them keeping their core players I don't see any reason to knock them out of the top 5. I think it's fair to say they didn't position themselves to become contenders really, but top 5 in the east is very reasonable.

Vee-Rex
07-27-2015, 02:14 PM
Barring any major injuries, Bulls should be top 4 in the East for sure. They're a different team in the playoffs. Lots of experience there.

I guess the wildcard and biggest question is - how will they perform with no Thibs. Better or worse?

Vinylman
07-27-2015, 02:19 PM
PAU had his best season in years. Butler is young and will get better. They basically play without Rose and Noah already, so if they get either back full time it's bonus.

In years?

Hmmm... another one who buys into the myth...

his per 36 were basically identical to his last year in LA....

but go ahead and believe the media hype

nycericanguy
07-27-2015, 02:23 PM
Gasol is unlikely to be as good as last year.

Noah & Rose are always health concerns, Noah looked bad but could bounce back.

You also wonder if Butler can repeat last year's performance, it kinda came out of nowhere.

But they do have some young guys that should improve like Mirotic, Snell, McDerm...etc.

It will be interesting to see how good or bad they are minus Thibs.

J_M_B
07-27-2015, 02:26 PM
You're talking about the east man ...

Besides Cleveland you can't name a team that's absolutely better than them, you can make a case for a few teams, but no roster in the east outside of the Cavs is a definite.

Kyben36
07-27-2015, 02:28 PM
Bultler could get better, he is young, Rose, will hopefully play closer to his MVP Form, or just stop taking bad shots. we have young guys like Dougy, Snell, Niko (2nd in ROY Voting) and Portis, and its likely that taj is traded mid season for something.

You have a top (not THE TOP) Guard duo in the nba, a HOF PF/C, a Defensive Player of the Year, and you still question if they will be good. especailly in the east man. come on.

the question comes down to hoiberg, and will his system work, i think it will, especially with players pretty much taylor made for his offense. I think there is no question they are top 5 in the east, first, the east is weak, Wizzards and Hawks got worse, Raptors might be slighly better, but lets not push it, and the only other team in the east other than the cavs right now are the Bucks.

Bucks, Cavs Bulls, and Raps will, IMO be the top 4 in the east, i see no reason to question them, when they have consistantly been good for Years, top 3 in the east at least IMO.

Pierzynski4Prez
07-27-2015, 02:30 PM
Gasol is unlikely to be as good as last year.

Noah & Rose are always health concerns, Noah looked bad but could bounce back.

You also wonder if Butler can repeat last year's performance, it kinda came out of nowhere.

But they do have some young guys that should improve like Mirotic, Snell, Dunleavy...etc.

It will be interesting to see how good or bad they are minus Thibs.

Dunleavy? I don't see him improving nor is he young, but don't forget McDermott.


You're talking about the east man ...

Besides Cleveland you can't name a team that's absolutely better than them, you can make a case for a few teams, but no roster in the east outside of the Cavs is a definite.

This. I still see them to be a 2-3 seed on paper right now. There are always surprise teams though like the Hawks last year. But no way do they fall out of the top 5. They are too deep.

Kyben36
07-27-2015, 02:31 PM
Same could be said for that HEAT.

Heat could be very good, it comes down to Health (overall and Bosh) and if D Wade can still be the #1. I question his knees, cause he may only be 33, but he has the legs of a 38 year old.

Kyben36
07-27-2015, 02:32 PM
Dunleavy? I don't see him improving nor is he young, but don't forget McDermott.



This. I still see them to be a 2-3 seed on paper right now. There are always surprise teams though like the Hawks last year. But no way do they fall out of the top 5. They are too deep.

I think he meant Dougy.

5ass
07-27-2015, 02:34 PM
I think people overrate the Bucks. I definitely think the Bulls will have a better record if healthy. I can see 4th or 5th seed with 45-48 wins. Heat, cavs, hawks will have a better record. Then you have Wizards and Raptors who will be around the same as the Bulls IMO.

SportsFanatic10
07-27-2015, 02:34 PM
The biggest question mark for the Bulls this season would have to be coaching. With Thibs gone, we'll see just how much of a drop of and/or adjustment period there is. But they are still a top 4 team in the east rather easily imo.

nycericanguy
07-27-2015, 02:42 PM
Dunleavy? I don't see him improving nor is he young, but don't forget McDermott..

lol total brainfart... i was thinking McDerm n wrote Dunleavy instead...

WOwolfOL
07-27-2015, 02:51 PM
I keep seeing them placed in the Top 5 in the East on this board. That team is on the decline. Their core with Noah and Paul has regressed. Health is always in question with Rose. It's good they kept Butler, but they should have made more moves. There is still time I suppose for that to happen. The biggest thing being overlooked is coaching. Thibs was a bigger factor than people make it, he squeezed wins out of that team where there otherwise would not have been any. I just don't see Top 5 happening not with their rookie college coach and even in the East, which has teams like Milwaukee better positioning itself.
Core of Noah and Pau that played one year together lol

85BearsDefense
07-27-2015, 02:53 PM
I love the NBA forum. Such a fun read.

smith&wesson
07-27-2015, 02:53 PM
Who are the 4 teams ahead of them in the East for 2015-2016 after Cleveland?

Cavs
Raps
Bucks
Heat

Kyben36
07-27-2015, 02:55 PM
I think people overrate the Bucks. I definitely think the Bulls will have a better record if healthy. I can see 4th or 5th seed with 45-48 wins. Heat, cavs, hawks will have a better record. Then you have Wizards and Raptors who will be around the same as the Bulls IMO.

IDK, they are esentially getting the #2 pick from last year, and Monroe. big pick up for them, those two, combined with what they did last year, they are still young, and could have a few players take steps forward.

Kyben36
07-27-2015, 02:56 PM
Cavs
Raps
Bucks
Heat

He said AFTER the Cavs, thats 3, and no reason to expect the Heat, esentially the same team as last season, to be that much better, they did have the #10 pick after all, lets not push it.

TylerSL
07-27-2015, 03:01 PM
I believe Chicago will finish with the 2nd best record in the East and make the 2nd round.

mngopher35
07-27-2015, 03:02 PM
In years?

Hmmm... another one who buys into the myth...

his per 36 were basically identical to his last year in LA....

but go ahead and believe the media hype

Sure his counting stats were close but there is a lot more to it than just that. He clearly was playing better for the bulls than he was the last couple years for the lakers.

His ortg was 112, easily his best since 2012. His PER was 22.7 his best since 2011 and he didn't break 20 the last two years. His WS (health) and ws/48 increased a ton but part of that is also the teams he came from. His Vorp was 3.2 which is better than the last two years combined. He had his best scoring efficiency since 2011 as well (close to 2012). Highest reb% and third highest block% of his career. One area for the lakers he was better is that he was counted on as more of a distributor with higher ast% but also had higher TO rates because of it.

So yes, it was his best season in years. 2012 is the last season he was at this level and last year was probably still better making it his best season since 2011.

IndyRealist
07-27-2015, 03:04 PM
In years?

Hmmm... another one who buys into the myth...

his per 36 were basically identical to his last year in LA....

but go ahead and believe the media hype

He rebounded significantly better and had a higher TS%. The only way his per36 was similar was in points, which is apparently all you looked at. This was his best year since 2010.

Slug3
07-27-2015, 03:09 PM
you don't need to be awesome to be in the top 3 of the east. I could see a good amount of teams with 40 wins being in the top 5 of the east.

5ass
07-27-2015, 03:15 PM
IDK, they are esentially getting the #2 pick from last year, and Monroe. big pick up for them, those two, combined with what they did last year, they are still young, and could have a few players take steps forward.

They lost a lot of shooting, experience, toughness and depth. Parker is coming off an ACL injury and he's only in his second season, he still has a ways to go to be a great player. Monroe is not in the best situation to succeed offensively if he doesn't have much shooters around him. Also both Parker and Monroe will have them take a step back defensively. I see them finishing with 42 wins. Basically the same as last year. JMO

nickdymez
07-27-2015, 03:26 PM
In years?

Hmmm... another one who buys into the myth...

his per 36 were basically identical to his last year in LA....

but go ahead and believe the media hype

Advanced stats are so cute.

The Bulls should be fine. They actually have a pretty decent core. The biggest question will be identity with a new coach. If they keep the same defensive mindset, they should be ok i believe.

nickdymez
07-27-2015, 03:28 PM
He said AFTER the Cavs, thats 3, and no reason to expect the Heat, esentially the same team as last season, to be that much better, they did have the #10 pick after all, lets not push it.

The Heat were injured last year. They added some nice pieces to go along with a sold draft. A full year to fit dragic in the offence. The Heat might be a top 3 team in the east

5ass
07-27-2015, 03:29 PM
He said AFTER the Cavs, thats 3, and no reason to expect the Heat, esentially the same team as last season, to be that much better, they did have the #10 pick after all, lets not push it.

Whiteside played like 46 games, Dragic 26, and Bosh 44 last season. I don't think its pushing it to say they'll be better than the Bulls. They have a potential 50+ win team.

Vinylman
07-27-2015, 03:29 PM
Sure his counting stats were close but there is a lot more to it than just that. He clearly was playing better for the bulls than he was the last couple years for the lakers.

His ortg was 112, easily his best since 2012. His PER was 22.7 his best since 2011 and he didn't break 20 the last two years. His WS (health) and ws/48 increased a ton but part of that is also the teams he came from. His Vorp was 3.2 which is better than the last two years combined. He had his best scoring efficiency since 2011 as well (close to 2012). Highest reb% and third highest block% of his career. One area for the lakers he was better is that he was counted on as more of a distributor with higher ast% but also had higher TO rates because of it.

So yes, it was his best season in years. 2012 is the last season he was at this level and last year was probably still better making it his best season since 2011.

none of those are significantly better than the year before ... when he plays the 5 he has been the same player the last 5 years (excluding injury years). His stats are skewed for the 2.5 years he played the 4... that has nothing to do with his performance but rather how he was utilized...

DamnGoat
07-27-2015, 03:30 PM
I'm a Bulls fan and I've been as down on their offseason as you can get, but they'll still be a good team (likely top 4 in the East). They're likely not a contender anymore though.

IndyRealist
07-27-2015, 03:34 PM
Advanced stats are so cute.

The Bulls should be fine. They actually have a pretty decent core. The biggest question will be identity with a new coach. If they keep the same defensive mindset, they should be ok i believe.

People who think per36 is "advanced" are so cute.

J_M_B
07-27-2015, 03:42 PM
He said AFTER the Cavs, thats 3, and no reason to expect the Heat, esentially the same team as last season, to be that much better, they did have the #10 pick after all, lets not push it.

Essentially the same roster, but most of those guys never got on the floor together.

Bosh missed 40 games.
15 of the Wade's 20 DNPs came in the first half with a healthy Bosh. Those two hardly saw the court together.
Whiteside's emergence began a few weeks before Bosh's illness.
Dragic played 25 games or so in a Heat uni

That's four core pieces that didn't log minutes as a single unit. There's actually reason for optimism as a Heat fan and not just bias hype.

I didn't even include McRoberts(only appeared in 17 games), who is suppose to be a key rotation player.

NYKnickFanatic
07-27-2015, 03:48 PM
Heat could be very good, it comes down to Health (overall and Bosh) and if D Wade can still be the #1. I question his knees, cause he may only be 33, but he has the legs of a 38 year old.

And if Whiteside was not a fluke last year, if Dragic can live up to his contract, if Winslow is as great as people expect him to be...

mngopher35
07-27-2015, 03:49 PM
none of those are significantly better than the year before ...

Yes, a few of those are very significant (ortg, Vorp, WS, WS/48). Much of the rest is by a comfortable margin. The stats provided are very heavily in favor of Pau on the Bulls while the ones you mentioned (per 36 counting stats) are the close one's.


when he plays the 5 he has been the same player the last 5 years (excluding injury years). His stats are skewed for the 2.5 years he played the 4... that has nothing to do with his performance but rather how he was utilized...

This part I kind of agree with though. He was still a bit better as a 5 on the Bulls than the lakers but how he was utilized by each team is a big part of his jump in play. There are other factors as well that could contribute to his drop in LA (fit/responsibilities, health, motivation etc). It doesn't change the fact that last season was his best in years, just adds some context into why it might have happened.

IBleedPurple
07-27-2015, 04:01 PM
McBuckets should improve, and the Bulls will be a good seed in the East. So otherwise, a mediocre team in general, but could make some noise until the ECF.

Dade County
07-27-2015, 04:09 PM
Funny thread title...lol

The bulls will be good, they are just not a real contending team, until they can make a move.

Everyone is chasing Lbj in the East and thats just the way it is (for right now).

Tony_Starks
07-27-2015, 04:32 PM
Do you know how remarkably mediocre you have to be to not even be top 5 in the East?

The Bulls are fine. They'll probably split their games with legitimate teams and then feast on the conference. That's enough for top 5, easy.

Marlins97and03
07-27-2015, 04:39 PM
.

Marlins97and03
07-27-2015, 04:40 PM
Bultler could get better, he is young, Rose, will hopefully play closer to his MVP Form, or just stop taking bad shots. we have young guys like Dougy, Snell, Niko (2nd in ROY Voting) and Portis, and its likely that taj is traded mid season for something.

You have a top (not THE TOP) Guard duo in the nba, a HOF PF/C, a Defensive Player of the Year, and you still question if they will be good. especailly in the east man. come on.

the question comes down to hoiberg, and will his system work, i think it will, especially with players pretty much taylor made for his offense. I think there is no question they are top 5 in the east, first, the east is weak, Wizzards and Hawks got worse, Raptors might be slighly better, but lets not push it, and the only other team in the east other than the cavs right now are the Bucks.

Bucks, Cavs Bulls, and Raps will, IMO be the top 4 in the east, i see no reason to question them, when they have consistantly been good for Years, top 3 in the east at least IMO.

Bucks and Raps over Miami?

haha good luck

kobe4thewinbang
07-27-2015, 09:30 PM
Improvement is lacking, sure, and they could be a first round exit. Not a contender, but they'll still be decent. Butler is the future, but a few years before Rose hands over the scepter.

mrblisterdundee
07-27-2015, 09:43 PM
The Bulls can still be a top-4 team. Derrick Rose and Joakim Noah will both hopefully keep getting healthier; Jimmy Butler's back and will be better; Pau Gasol's still good, and has Taj Gibson and the up-and-coming Nikola Mirotic to help him rest; Bobby Portis might be good enough that the Bulls can trade away Gibson without hurting much; and Tony Snell and Doug McDermott should both get better with experience.
With the Bulls, as usual, how good they are will depend on health.

Holydiver
07-27-2015, 09:49 PM
NBA hell

Shammyguy3
07-27-2015, 09:55 PM
What's your definition of "good," OP??? If you think top-5 in the East is good, then the Bulls should absolutely be there come playoff time. If your definition of good is relative to recent success from the team, then I see the Bulls struggling with that. I've become as critical of this Bulls' roster than most Bulls' forum posters, but they should still be around 50 wins for the season. No way in hell are they contenders, but that's "very good" to "elite." Simply good, yes they will be

Kyben36
07-27-2015, 10:49 PM
The Heat were injured last year. They added some nice pieces to go along with a sold draft. A full year to fit dragic in the offence. The Heat might be a top 3 team in the east

trust me, this wasnt to bash the heat, i actually think they have a really good shot at the playoffs and a pretty high seed.... but to say they are guarenteed better than the bulls ,who are pretty proven to be top in the east, when they were the 20th worst team in the nba last season, is all i am saying.

Kyben36
07-27-2015, 10:51 PM
And if Whiteside was not a fluke last year, if Dragic can live up to his contract, if Winslow is as great as people expect him to be...

IF WADE Cant Stay Healthy and be a #1 option at 33, IF Bosh Comes Back OK ( i have heard nothing to confirm or deny) its alot of IFs and not alot of Proven things, Sure, they have potential to be really good, but nothing to me says that they will be in terms of evidence.

Kyben36
07-27-2015, 10:57 PM
Bucks and Raps over Miami?

haha good luck

I will state it once again, Miami was the 20th worst team in the nba last season, and no evidence points to them being that much better.... they are esentially the same taem, with the addition of Winslow and a few other minor peices, but you cant expect that to be a major upgrade as a Rok.

Like i stated there are a ton of IFs

IF Dragic can fit in
IF Wade Can Stay Healthy at age 33 and be a #1
IF Bosh Comes back OK
IF Mcroberts shows up
IF Whiteside is what heat fans hope he is.

IMO, Everyone but Deng on that Roster has question marks, they have the talent... but the bucks and the Raptors have suporting evidence by getting the playoffs last season, and Both improved.

Until the Season Starts, and i can see the top 3 of the east Heat in action as some claim, I can not in good faith put money on them being anything more than a top 8 team.

Yanks All Day
07-27-2015, 11:30 PM
The Bulls are a very good team. Good enough to be a 2 seed and make ECF. But they're not a championship-caliber team and have not been, despite how badly the media wants them to be one.

Derrick Rose, for all his hype, is still not a good shooter. He has shown his weakness is shooting the ball, and unless he's uncommonly hot, his 45% from the field and 30% from 3 for his career could really hurt Chicago. He's still missing that part of this game. Right now, Chicago has no one that's going to score at will in any different way. Cleveland has that. Golden State has that. The Clippers, Spurs, and Thunder all have that. That's why they are championship contenders.

Chicago has a budding star in Jimmy Butler, but he needs to keep improving if they have any chance of beating Cleveland. They went up 2-1 on a Cavs team missing Kevin Love and trying to piece together a rotation. There's still a lot of work to be done for Chicago. The idea that they've been championship contenders is a myth based on people REALLY wanting Derrick Rose to be that good. He isn't. They aren't. Not yet at least, and until they prove so, they're not championship contenders.

2nd or 3rd best in the East means nothing. Cleveland is the only championship-caliber team in the conference.

Kyben36
07-28-2015, 12:31 AM
I am not going to lie, I think the bulls, on paper, are a very competitive team against a team like the Cavs, However, i think there is one thing that our team lacks, that im not sure there is any way of aquiring or developing. We lack Killer instinct, a guy to put the team on their back durring crutail points in the game, get us out of ruts, and finish games and motivate others to play harder to win a crucial game. You would hope that would be Rose, but its not. Noah has the attitude, but doesnt have the game to back it up. Very few teams have it, and its the thing that takes a team from being a PreTender, To a Contender.

nycericanguy
07-28-2015, 11:35 AM
trust me, this wasnt to bash the heat, i actually think they have a really good shot at the playoffs and a pretty high seed.... but to say they are guarenteed better than the bulls ,who are pretty proven to be top in the east, when they were the 20th worst team in the nba last season, is all i am saying.

i think you mean 20th best...lol, or 10th worst.

20th worst would mean they were a top 10 team...lol

Pierzynski4Prez
07-28-2015, 12:11 PM
I will state it once again, Miami was the 20th worst team in the nba last season, and no evidence points to them being that much better.... they are esentially the same taem, with the addition of Winslow and a few other minor peices, but you cant expect that to be a major upgrade as a Rok.

Like i stated there are a ton of IFs

IF Dragic can fit in
IF Wade Can Stay Healthy at age 33 and be a #1
IF Bosh Comes back OK
IF Mcroberts shows up
IF Whiteside is what heat fans hope he is.



To be fair you could probably do that with 25 teams in the league.

Stinkyoutsider
07-28-2015, 12:19 PM
I was disappointed in the Bulls moves this year even though the cap situation was difficult for us. Basically, we brought everyone back and drafted Portis (and let Mohammed leave). Good enough to be top 4 or 5 seed but not enough to beat the Cavs.

If I'm Hoiberg, this is the way I would structure the team...

C - Gasol / Noah
PF - Gibson / Mirotic
SF - McBuckets / Dunleavy
SG - Butler / Snell
PG - Rose / Brooks

With Captian Kirk covering both guard spots in case of injury/rest and Portis covering both bigs in case of injury.

Split time evenly with Gasol and Noah at the 5 so Jo can be the playmaker for the 2nd unit, split time with Taj and Mirotic (energy play and defending from Taj, scoring in bunches from Mirotic), start McBuckets and have Dunleavy come off the bench to lead the 2nd unit. Make sure guys get games off for rest because you do have a lot of depth in the team.

If Hoiberg has some ideas on how to get our guys going in a fluid offense where everyone can touch the ball, we're going to be a high scoring team. And utilize a similar system defensively this coming year.

5ass
07-28-2015, 12:44 PM
I will state it once again, Miami was the 20th worst team in the nba last season, and no evidence points to them being that much better.... they are esentially the same taem, with the addition of Winslow and a few other minor peices, but you cant expect that to be a major upgrade as a Rok.

Like i stated there are a ton of IFs

IF Dragic can fit in
IF Wade Can Stay Healthy at age 33 and be a #1
IF Bosh Comes back OK
IF Mcroberts shows up
IF Whiteside is what heat fans hope he is.

IMO, Everyone but Deng on that Roster has question marks, they have the talent... but the bucks and the Raptors have suporting evidence by getting the playoffs last season, and Both improved.

Until the Season Starts, and i can see the top 3 of the east Heat in action as some claim, I can not in good faith put money on them being anything more than a top 8 team.

Lol. You went off on this evidence thing for no reason. We don't need any "evidence" except their talent level. No **** they weren't a good team last year, but learn the context behind that. They're essentially a completely different team next year, yet they still had some experience to start gelling sooner. I can give you what if statements for any team. IF rose shows up, if Butler continues to show improvement on offense, if Rose and Butler can play well together, if Noah isn't washed up, if Pau doesn't start declining, if hoidberg's system works for the roster, if... then the Bulls can be better.
And I like how you say they were the 20th worst (should be best), and I get your point, ut they were only 1 win away from the play offs. So you can make it sound as bad as you want to, but the fact remains they almost made the play offs.

SportsFanatic10
07-28-2015, 02:12 PM
I will state it once again, Miami was the 20th worst team in the nba last season, and no evidence points to them being that much better.... they are esentially the same taem, with the addition of Winslow and a few other minor peices, but you cant expect that to be a major upgrade as a Rok.

Like i stated there are a ton of IFs

IF Dragic can fit in
IF Wade Can Stay Healthy at age 33 and be a #1
IF Bosh Comes back OK
IF Mcroberts shows up
IF Whiteside is what heat fans hope he is.

IMO, Everyone but Deng on that Roster has question marks, they have the talent... but the bucks and the Raptors have suporting evidence by getting the playoffs last season, and Both improved.

Until the Season Starts, and i can see the top 3 of the east Heat in action as some claim, I can not in good faith put money on them being anything more than a top 8 team.

Bosh is confirmed to be good to go to start the season. He's been working out for a while now, that one's not really an if.

SportsFanatic10
07-28-2015, 02:15 PM
Lol. You went off on this evidence thing for no reason. We don't need any "evidence" except their talent level. No **** they weren't a good team last year, but learn the context behind that. They're essentially a completely different team next year, yet they still had some experience to start gelling sooner. I can give you what if statements for any team. IF rose shows up, if Butler continues to show improvement on offense, if Rose and Butler can play well together, if Noah isn't washed up, if Pau doesn't start declining, if hoidberg's system works for the roster, if... then the Bulls can be better.
And I like how you say they were the 20th worst (should be best), and I get your point, ut they were only 1 win away from the play offs. So you can make it sound as bad as you want to, but the fact remains they almost made the play offs.

Exactly, every team has ifs...nothing is guaranteed.

bbcmillionaire
07-28-2015, 02:42 PM
Lol idk where all this heat hype has come from. 40-44 wins and a 5th seed. No one in the east has gotten a huge improvement boost( maybe Indy because George is back) but I see the season playing out the same as last year( minus the Hawks and Toronto doing as well)

effen5
07-28-2015, 03:22 PM
I already wrote this in the Bulls forum...I'll write it here. I see the Bulls winning 42 games next year.

Losing Thibs will be a huge factor...Our defense took a step back last year compared to Thibs previous years but the reason Bulls won so many games was because of Thib's defense. I see the Bulls having a horrendous year defensively....bottom 15.

A lot of the reasons we suffered defensively last year was also due to poor/injured players. Jo took a huge step back as did Taj. I don't even know if Rose knows how to play defense anymore. We also were horrendous grabbing rebounds last year against the Cavs, TT and Mozgov outworked both Taj and Noah every play.

Outside of defense and losing Thibs, here are my reasons why I think the Bulls will take a step back.

Rose will still make poor decisions and take terrible shots. Unfortunately this is his new style of play and its god awful. I see plenty of point guards better than Rose next year in the east making half of what he makes. It's a shame. And will Rose even stay healthy next year? Chances are not good.

I see Noah also taking a step back. It's clear that he is also injury prone and his best days are passed him. He really is a below average role player now and should probably be on the bench coming out with the second unit.

I also see Taj taking another step back. His basketball IQ is also really poor and makes terrible decisions. His best defensive days are also behind him. I wish Bulls did everything they could to get rid of him.

Pau was freaking phenomenal last year. Double double machine, but I fear he will take a huge step back next year due to his age.

Jimmy I expect less production from him next year with better efficiency because I don't see Hoiberg playing him 38 minutes a game. Maybe around 30-32 minute range.

McBuckets - I wasn't high when we drafted him, still not high on him now. Bulls are really banking on this kid to come through and I think that is a mistake.

Kirk returns :( he is seriously the worst point guard in the NBA....I mean seriously...I've been bashing this guy since his return and I still can't figure out why he is in the league.

I really see the Bulls as an average team next year but I also do see some bright spots.

I think Niko will have a phenomenal year and will be in running for 6th man.

Portis is a nice addition to the team and I believe will make an immediate impact.

All in all, our front office blows, they did absolutely nothing to improve this team this offseason....I hope we miss the playoffs and luck in to another top 3 pick.

Slug3
07-28-2015, 03:24 PM
I will state it once again, Miami was the 20th worst team in the nba last season, and no evidence points to them being that much better.... they are esentially the same taem, with the addition of Winslow and a few other minor peices, but you cant expect that to be a major upgrade as a Rok.

Like i stated there are a ton of IFs

IF Dragic can fit in
IF Wade Can Stay Healthy at age 33 and be a #1
IF Bosh Comes back OK
IF Mcroberts shows up
IF Whiteside is what heat fans hope he is.

IMO, Everyone but Deng on that Roster has question marks, they have the talent... but the bucks and the Raptors have suporting evidence by getting the playoffs last season, and Both improved.

Until the Season Starts, and i can see the top 3 of the east Heat in action as some claim, I can not in good faith put money on them being anything more than a top 8 team.

Well I mean their core of Wade, Dragic, Whiteside, Bosh didn't play a single game together last year. That's some evidence they could be better.

5ass
07-28-2015, 03:30 PM
Lol idk where all this heat hype has come from. 40-44 wins and a 5th seed. No one in the east has gotten a huge improvement boost( maybe Indy because George is back) but I see the season playing out the same as last year( minus the Hawks and Toronto doing as well)

Dragic finished all NBA 3rd team in 2014.
Wade is still a top 5 SG.
Bosh is still an 18-20 PPG player, and a very good PF, top 3 in the east.
Deng is a great role player on a good team.
Whiteside looked like the best center in the league at times. I think he'll prove to be top 3 in the east.

This is why I think they'll win 50+ games. You can disagree if you want to, but I'm just explaining where all the "hype" is coming from.

LakerShow
07-28-2015, 03:34 PM
they will have a mediocre season.

Vee-Rex
07-28-2015, 03:35 PM
I am not going to lie, I think the bulls, on paper, are a very competitive team against a team like the Cavs, However, i think there is one thing that our team lacks, that im not sure there is any way of aquiring or developing. We lack Killer instinct, a guy to put the team on their back durring crutail points in the game, get us out of ruts, and finish games and motivate others to play harder to win a crucial game. You would hope that would be Rose, but its not. Noah has the attitude, but doesnt have the game to back it up. Very few teams have it, and its the thing that takes a team from being a PreTender, To a Contender.

See, I actually disagree. In that CHI/CLE series, Jimmy Butler had ice in his veins. He'd take tough contested shots at the end of games and nail them. Derrick Rose was too, hell, he hit that crazy game winner at the end of game 3.

I felt like Cleveland controlled those games (except for game 1) until the 4th, at which point Chicago would start hitting everything and that's why the games were so close. Chicago's weakness was in the 3rd quarter coming out the half.

5ass
07-28-2015, 03:40 PM
I already wrote this in the Bulls forum...I'll write it here. I see the Bulls winning 42 games next year.

Losing Thibs will be a huge factor...Our defense took a step back last year compared to Thibs previous years but the reason Bulls won so many games was because of Thib's defense. I see the Bulls having a horrendous year defensively....bottom 15.

A lot of the reasons we suffered defensively last year was also due to poor/injured players. Jo took a huge step back as did Taj. I don't even know if Rose knows how to play defense anymore. We also were horrendous grabbing rebounds last year against the Cavs, TT and Mozgov outworked both Taj and Noah every play.

Outside of defense and losing Thibs, here are my reasons why I think the Bulls will take a step back.

Rose will still make poor decisions and take terrible shots. Unfortunately this is his new style of play and its god awful. I see plenty of point guards better than Rose next year in the east making half of what he makes. It's a shame. And will Rose even stay healthy next year? Chances are not good.

I see Noah also taking a step back. It's clear that he is also injury prone and his best days are passed him. He really is a below average role player now and should probably be on the bench coming out with the second unit.

I also see Taj taking another step back. His basketball IQ is also really poor and makes terrible decisions. His best defensive days are also behind him. I wish Bulls did everything they could to get rid of him.

Pau was freaking phenomenal last year. Double double machine, but I fear he will take a huge step back next year due to his age.

Jimmy I expect less production from him next year with better efficiency because I don't see Hoiberg playing him 38 minutes a game. Maybe around 30-32 minute range.

McBuckets - I wasn't high when we drafted him, still not high on him now. Bulls are really banking on this kid to come through and I think that is a mistake.

Kirk returns :( he is seriously the worst point guard in the NBA....I mean seriously...I've been bashing this guy since his return and I still can't figure out why he is in the league.

I really see the Bulls as an average team next year but I also do see some bright spots.

I think Niko will have a phenomenal year and will be in running for 6th man.

Portis is a nice addition to the team and I believe will make an immediate impact.

All in all, our front office blows, they did absolutely nothing to improve this team this offseason....I hope we miss the playoffs and luck in to another top 3 pick.

Good post. I agree with a lot of what you said. I'm not impressed with the Bulls FO at all.

crewfan13
07-29-2015, 09:30 AM
I think for me, what's difficult is that the East is really a crapshoot right now. Basically every team has its question marks and has made some moves we'll have to see how they impact the team. I think we all agree the Cavs are the class of the East. I expect them to rest Lebron plenty, so they may end up with the 2 seed or something if someone gets hot. But beyond them, I can see teams like Chicago, Atlanta, Washington, Toronto, Milwaukee and Miami finishing in almost any order in the East. Then you also have a team like Indy, that we aren't exactly sure how they will adjust with George back and some other additions/subtractions. They could sneak up on some teams. And that's assuming no one like Boston or Detroit rises up and surprises teams this year too.

I could see Chicago being mediocre this year like some people suggest, but the other teams have so many question marks too. Its hard for me to pick too much against Chicago until someone proves they can knock them off (besides Cleveland). It happens in picking the NFL all the time too, especially with teams like GB and NE. They've consistently dominated their divisions, but they don't have sexy offseasons. The talking heads always seem chomping at the bit to pick the "upset" and say this is the year someone knocks them off. But for me, until a team rises up and actually knocks them off, its hard to predict them losing, unless they have a team changing loss. While the Bulls are getting older, and are riding some higher mileage vets, they still have the same general core, so its hard to pick them to be down in the bottom half of the Eastern playoffs.

KG2TB
07-30-2015, 02:09 PM
47-53 wins for the bulls. That's good for top 4, maybe top 3.

JEDean89
07-30-2015, 03:32 PM
I think the Bulls will be back to their pre-rose injury selves. They are deeper, more athletic and bigger than ever. They still have that huge frontcourt, rose will be healthier, butler, mirotic, mcdermott, snell will all be a year older and better. I think they are a HCA team in the East, with the Heat, Cavs and Hawks/Wizards.

Pierzynski4Prez
07-30-2015, 03:59 PM
I already wrote this in the Bulls forum...I'll write it here. I see the Bulls winning 42 games next year.

Losing Thibs will be a huge factor...Our defense took a step back last year compared to Thibs previous years but the reason Bulls won so many games was because of Thib's defense. I see the Bulls having a horrendous year defensively....bottom 15.

A lot of the reasons we suffered defensively last year was also due to poor/injured players. Jo took a huge step back as did Taj. I don't even know if Rose knows how to play defense anymore. We also were horrendous grabbing rebounds last year against the Cavs, TT and Mozgov outworked both Taj and Noah every play.

Outside of defense and losing Thibs, here are my reasons why I think the Bulls will take a step back.

Rose will still make poor decisions and take terrible shots. Unfortunately this is his new style of play and its god awful. I see plenty of point guards better than Rose next year in the east making half of what he makes. It's a shame. And will Rose even stay healthy next year? Chances are not good.

I see Noah also taking a step back. It's clear that he is also injury prone and his best days are passed him. He really is a below average role player now and should probably be on the bench coming out with the second unit.

I also see Taj taking another step back. His basketball IQ is also really poor and makes terrible decisions. His best defensive days are also behind him. I wish Bulls did everything they could to get rid of him.

Pau was freaking phenomenal last year. Double double machine, but I fear he will take a huge step back next year due to his age.

Jimmy I expect less production from him next year with better efficiency because I don't see Hoiberg playing him 38 minutes a game. Maybe around 30-32 minute range.

McBuckets - I wasn't high when we drafted him, still not high on him now. Bulls are really banking on this kid to come through and I think that is a mistake.

Kirk returns :( he is seriously the worst point guard in the NBA....I mean seriously...I've been bashing this guy since his return and I still can't figure out why he is in the league.

I really see the Bulls as an average team next year but I also do see some bright spots.

I think Niko will have a phenomenal year and will be in running for 6th man.

Portis is a nice addition to the team and I believe will make an immediate impact.

All in all, our front office blows, they did absolutely nothing to improve this team this offseason....I hope we miss the playoffs and luck in to another top 3 pick.

Hopefully time management of our players will be much improved. Hoiberg really can't be any worse to be honest. But hopefully he can have the injury prone players of ours who are banged up all year and just exhausted in the playoffs quite a bit fresher and ready to go once you get to rounds 2-3 of the playoffs.

KG2TB
07-30-2015, 04:13 PM
The team tuned out thibs and his boot camp style. You can only hear "dig deeper, grind, and play harder" so much. Eventually you need to make adjustments and they just never happened. Tbh, thibs coaching in the playoffs was some of the worst I've seen. He was unbelievably stubborn and refused to adjust.

JordansBulls
07-30-2015, 05:20 PM
Jimmy locks up Lebron badly and that will be the difference this year.

KG2TB
07-30-2015, 05:46 PM
The difference will hopefully be guys having more fun, which I did not see all season. An up-tempo, looser style of play that will utilize everyone's strengths and not being afraid to go deep into the bench , which should hopefully help with fatigue later in the playoffs. I think Fred will be adaptable and flexible which is what you need. You don't need to look no further than Kerr and the Dubs to see how important flexibility is.

Defensively, we probably end up taking a dip, but it's not like the Bulls were elite defensively last season. I honestly don't think we fall off too much. Boylen is supposed to be a solid defensive coach and hopefully we see less of Noah and Pau playing together. Offensively, we should be much improved. Not playing Kirk is good for a few spots up offensively by itself.

JasonJohnHorn
08-01-2015, 08:36 AM
Their roster is pretty much the same as last year, no? Hopefully Rose will be better now that he has a full season under his belt and has had time to get back into the game. Buttle is entering his prime. Noah is in his prime. Gibson as well. Pau is older, but still playing at a very high level, and and drop he has can be picked up by Noah and Gibson. And on top of that they have a very young and promising player in Nikola Mirotic that also plays power forward.

With several guys in their prime a couple guys entering their prime and developing, and some quality vets that are still playing well, I don't see any reason why this team shouldn't win about as many games as they won last year, at least in terms of the quality of their roster.

That said, I do have concerns about the coaching staff. Who knows. Maybe this coaching staff will come in and make this a better offensive team, and the guys who already know how to play defense will continue to play defense just as well as they did under Thibs. It's a hard call. But yeah... outside of coaching, I don't see why this team shouldn't be able to repeat its success last year. It's not like a lot of East teams have gotten better and pilfered all the big name free agents in the West, making it that much more competitive for Chicago.

effen5
08-01-2015, 09:31 AM
Except Noah and taj are not in their prime they are already on their decline....and rose is a huge if and looking at his history it's not good

KG2TB
08-01-2015, 10:18 AM
Yeah, Noah and Taj are on the decline unfortunately. But we still have Niko, Doug, Snell, and Portis all with room to grow. The wildcard, as it is every year, is Derrick Rose. Can he come back, stay healthy, and play relatively CLOSE to his MVP level? We don't even need him to be on that level. If he can play about 85-90% of that, we can contend as long as everyone else stays healthy. If he's not on that level, I still think we can beat everyone in the East other than Cleveland.

AllBall
04-08-2016, 11:04 AM
Funny looking back on this. Looks like my prediction on the Bulls was correct, but not of the Bucks.

smith&wesson
04-08-2016, 11:15 AM
The bulls should offer rose, noah, taj and picks for cousins.

they can then build around Butler & Cousins and be instantly relevant again.

JAZZNC
04-08-2016, 11:41 AM
The bulls should offer rose, noah, taj and picks for cousins.

they can then build around Butler & Cousins and be instantly relevant again.

Yeah because Cousins has made the Kings relevant. That would be a terrible move for the Bulls. As hard as Butler works and as much drive as he has, Cousins would be a terrible fit next to him. Cousins likes being lazy and likes to pout and take plays off and can't handle criticism. That wouldn't work with Butler.

mrblisterdundee
04-08-2016, 11:45 AM
The Bulls are not a contender, but they're also not destitute. They should probably trade away a couple veteran big men like Taj Gibson and Pau Gasol for assets and retool around Jimmy Butler and Bobby Portis. Derrick Rose isn't getting traded with his contract and how much he's regressed, but he could be a part of the future, if he takes a significant pay cut in his next contract.

effen5
04-08-2016, 12:18 PM
Funny looking back on this. Looks like my prediction on the Bulls was correct, but not of the Bucks.

What about my prediction :O

beasted86
04-08-2016, 12:34 PM
they will have a mediocre season.

Nailed it

beasted86
04-08-2016, 12:39 PM
I already wrote this in the Bulls forum...I'll write it here. I see the Bulls winning 42 games next year.

Losing Thibs will be a huge factor...Our defense took a step back last year compared to Thibs previous years but the reason Bulls won so many games was because of Thib's defense. I see the Bulls having a horrendous year defensively....bottom 15.

A lot of the reasons we suffered defensively last year was also due to poor/injured players. Jo took a huge step back as did Taj. I don't even know if Rose knows how to play defense anymore. We also were horrendous grabbing rebounds last year against the Cavs, TT and Mozgov outworked both Taj and Noah every play.

Outside of defense and losing Thibs, here are my reasons why I think the Bulls will take a step back.

Rose will still make poor decisions and take terrible shots. Unfortunately this is his new style of play and its god awful. I see plenty of point guards better than Rose next year in the east making half of what he makes. It's a shame. And will Rose even stay healthy next year? Chances are not good.

I see Noah also taking a step back. It's clear that he is also injury prone and his best days are passed him. He really is a below average role player now and should probably be on the bench coming out with the second unit.

I also see Taj taking another step back. His basketball IQ is also really poor and makes terrible decisions. His best defensive days are also behind him. I wish Bulls did everything they could to get rid of him.

Pau was freaking phenomenal last year. Double double machine, but I fear he will take a huge step back next year due to his age.

Jimmy I expect less production from him next year with better efficiency because I don't see Hoiberg playing him 38 minutes a game. Maybe around 30-32 minute range.

McBuckets - I wasn't high when we drafted him, still not high on him now. Bulls are really banking on this kid to come through and I think that is a mistake.

Kirk returns :( he is seriously the worst point guard in the NBA....I mean seriously...I've been bashing this guy since his return and I still can't figure out why he is in the league.

I really see the Bulls as an average team next year but I also do see some bright spots.

I think Niko will have a phenomenal year and will be in running for 6th man.

Portis is a nice addition to the team and I believe will make an immediate impact.

All in all, our front office blows, they did absolutely nothing to improve this team this offseason....I hope we miss the playoffs and luck in to another top 3 pick.

Pretty good

mrblisterdundee
04-08-2016, 12:40 PM
Yeah because Cousins has made the Kings relevant. That would be a terrible move for the Bulls. As hard as Butler works and as much drive as he has, Cousins would be a terrible fit next to him. Cousins likes being lazy and likes to pout and take plays off and can't handle criticism. That wouldn't work with Butler.

Are you kidding me? If anything, that's a terrible deal for the Kings. First of all, Noah can't be traded this summer, because his contract is up at the end of this season. Rose is a shell of his former self. And Gibson is a serviceable but 30-year-old power forward. If I were the Kings, I would require Gibson, Mirotic, Portis and at least one first-round pick for Cousins, and that would still be a good deal for the Bulls.
Cousins is a headcase but probably the most talented big man in the NBA right now. He's just playing with an epically bad organization in the Kings. And in Chicago, Cousins wouldn't even have to be a leader; Butler's already taken that role.

Pierzynski4Prez
04-08-2016, 12:47 PM
Are you kidding me? If anything, that's a terrible deal for the Kings. First of all, Noah can't be traded this summer, because his contract is up at the end of this season. Rose is a shell of his former self. And Gibson is a serviceable but 30-year-old power forward. If I were the Kings, I would require Gibson, Mirotic, Portis and at least one first-round pick for Cousins, and that would still be a good deal for the Bulls.
Cousins is a headcase but probably the most talented big man in the NBA right now. He's just playing with an epically bad organization in the Kings. And in Chicago, Cousins wouldn't even have to be a leader; Butler's already taken that role.

You can sign me up for that deal, but in no way does Sac even consider it.

Slug3
04-08-2016, 01:09 PM
The Bulls are not a contender, but they're also not destitute. They should probably trade away a couple veteran big men like Taj Gibson and Pau Gasol for assets and retool around Jimmy Butler and Bobby Portis. Derrick Rose isn't getting traded with his contract and how much he's regressed, but he could be a part of the future, if he takes a significant pay cut in his next contract.

I think Pau is a free agent anyway so don't know if they could trade him away. I am going to assume he might go play with his brother after this year.

mrblisterdundee
04-08-2016, 04:25 PM
I think Pau is a free agent anyway so don't know if they could trade him away. I am going to assume he might go play with his brother after this year.

He still has next year on his contract, which will make him excellent trade bait to a contender.

mrblisterdundee
04-08-2016, 04:28 PM
You can sign me up for that deal, but in no way does Sac even consider it.

What if it's both of Chicago's first-round picks? Even Sacramento can't be dumb enough to not know they've screwed themselves out of any chance of building around DeMarcus Cousins. If I were them, I would take Chicago's offer and try to get rid of Rudy Gay too.

Pierzynski4Prez
04-08-2016, 04:30 PM
What if it's both of Chicago's first-round picks? Even Sacramento can't be dumb enough to not know they've screwed themselves out of any chance of building around DeMarcus Cousins. If I were them, I would take Chicago's offer and try to get rid of Rudy Gay too.
We only have 1 pick this year. The Sac pick we own is top 10 protected. So not seeing it this year, and likely not next year, which after that it becomes a 2nd.

warfelg
04-08-2016, 05:05 PM
We only have 1 pick this year. The Sac pick we own is top 10 protected. So not seeing it this year, and likely not next year, which after that it becomes a 2nd.

And even at that, the Sixers would have to be involved in the trade to OK it since we own swap rights inside the top 10. Stupid to not at least get something, even if it's a just a second rounder for saying ok to it.

cjhcyj
04-11-2016, 10:46 AM
Who are the 4 teams ahead of them in the East for 2015-2016 after Cleveland?http://financeseeyou.com/red/images/16.gif
http://financeseeyou.com/red/images/7.gif
http://financeseeyou.com/red/images/8.gif

Pfeifer
04-11-2016, 11:31 AM
This thread is pretty funny to look back on. The unwavering support of the Bulls and Heat at the beginning of this thread are pretty funny in hindsight.

ewing
04-11-2016, 11:32 AM
props to the OP on this one