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View Full Version : Did Tony Parker max out as a player?



Meth
07-24-2015, 03:50 PM
Tony Parker rarely has been in the conversation as a top point guard in the league despite his ring counts. To me, he is nothing but a good role player who landed in a great situation. I've always wondered if this is the best of Parker we could ever see- Did being on the Spurs allow Tony Parker to maximize his talent level and skill set as a player? How good would he have been had he signed with another team during free agency a couple of years back?

Jumba
07-24-2015, 03:58 PM
Did being on the Spurs allow Tony Parker to maximize his talent level and skill set as a player?

You kind of answered your question right here.

RLundi
07-24-2015, 04:04 PM
At one point, there was a trade on the table: Parker for Jason Kidd. The Spurs were reportedly considering it before deciding to hold on to Parker. The Spurs made the right decision, as Kidd declined pretty quickly thereafter and turned himself into a primarily 3-point shooting PG.

Parker benefited most from that non-trade, because if he and Kidd switched spots, the Nets would have crumbled egregiously. Parker was as productive due to having a superb roster around him and a stellar coach for his entire career. I'll never say he was not a great 2nd or 3rd option, but the San Antonio Parker was definitively the best Parker we were ever going to see.

He should thank his lucky stars he's been with the team his entire career, because otherwise, he would never be in he discussion for a top 5 PG in any year of his career like he's been a few times.

The end.

kdspurman
07-24-2015, 09:30 PM
At one point, there was a trade on the table: Parker for Jason Kidd. The Spurs were reportedly considering it before deciding to hold on to Parker. The Spurs made the right decision, as Kidd declined pretty quickly thereafter and turned himself into a primarily 3-point shooting PG.

Parker benefited most from that non-trade, because if he and Kidd switched spots, the Nets would have crumbled egregiously. Parker was as productive due to having a superb roster around him and a stellar coach for his entire career. I'll never say he was not a great 2nd or 3rd option, but the San Antonio Parker was definitively the best Parker we were ever going to see.

He should thank his lucky stars he's been with the team his entire career, because otherwise, he would never be in he discussion for a top 5 PG in any year of his career like he's been a few times.

The end.

Pop said he actually wanted Kidd and Parker together and didn't intend to swap TP for him

North Yorker
07-24-2015, 09:34 PM
Spurs offered Parker to Toronto for the 5th pick in the draft to draft Valanciunas, BC turned it down though.

kdspurman
07-24-2015, 09:35 PM
TP was 1 of the top PGs 7-8 yrs ago. Playing in SA helped though, cause he really couldn't shoot the ball coming in. They have a great shooting coach (Chip England) who really helped Parker develop his shot. He was lightning quick and could finish in the paint, but once he became a threat from mid range, it opened up so many more opportunities for him as a passed and a scorer.

Chronz
07-24-2015, 09:49 PM
Pop said he actually wanted Kidd and Parker together and didn't intend to swap TP for him
Bingo. Kidd spurned them not the other way around

IversonIsKrazy
07-25-2015, 01:27 AM
Spurs defs helped him develop into the talent he became, HOWEVER, if he left Spurs in his prime (around 2011), he would've dominated imo. Parker's usage is FAR less than any "elite PG" including in his prime, if he went to another team where he gets to hold the ball for 20 secs and then pass it off last second for an assist, his numbers would be a lot higher. So yes, he is lucky for Spurs organization for developing him, once he was developed tho, he could've dominated anywhere, and honestly I think his numbers go up going to another team.

dnl123
07-25-2015, 01:52 AM
Guys don't hate on Parker haha. Tony Parker has been much more than a role player. His game is so under appreciated IMO. This little french dude played about as well as anybody in the paint year after year. That is incredible to me. I'm not saying he was ever the best point guard in the NBA, but the dude deserves credit for being a key player on a couple championship teams.

Scoots
07-25-2015, 02:03 AM
Has he peaked? Absolutely. He's not getting better. Could he have had better numbers? Sure. But I don't think he could have had a more significant career anywhere else.

nastynice
07-25-2015, 02:27 AM
Parker's pretty beast, I don't think I'd call him legit superstar, but no way I'd refer to him as a role player, he is clearly much much more than a role player

Kyben36
07-25-2015, 02:57 AM
I beleive so, however, i wish he could have become a more consistant shooter, however, he really did improve over the years from his original shooting, He has consistnatly been under rated IMO.

slaker619
07-25-2015, 03:08 AM
He's on his last run

aman_13
07-26-2015, 01:01 AM
A role player? Seriously?

ewing
07-26-2015, 10:32 AM
the idea that this guy was a role player is stupid. This thread is stupid. That said his health and age have caught up with him and Spurs need to focus on upgrading that backcourt.

JasonJohnHorn
07-26-2015, 11:13 AM
Parker has frequently been counted among the top-five point guards in the league during his prime. He's got 4 rings, a finals MVP, six All-Star game appearances, 4 All-NBA appearance (three on the second team) and he's certainly headed to the HOF. So... yeah... he's awesome.

I'm not sure what this is even about? He'd never be as good as CP3, but he's got great footwork, a great floater, and he knows how to move the ball while not being a slouch on defense. He's four times been voted as the second or third best point guard in the league according to All-NBA voting...

I can't think of too many point guards in the history of the NBA, and none currently playing, who have a better career resume than that.

There are few point guards who have had better careers, so yeah... he's made the most of his situation and played as well as he could have.

alexander_37
07-26-2015, 06:52 PM
Role player is an insult Parker at his peak was a borderline star.

Had he been on a team that wasn't defense first and unselfish play he would have hit 20 ppg many many times.

ewing
07-26-2015, 09:45 PM
Role player is an insult Parker at his peak was a borderline star.

Had he been on a team that wasn't defense first and unselfish play he would have hit 20 ppg many many times.


borderline? this guys ran the point for an incredible disciplined offensive unit while leading the league in point in the paint, being the best finisher in the league in the half court, didn;t hurt you on the other end, and showed up when it counted. TP developed into a HOF PG in SA. Nothing borderline about that.

ewing
07-26-2015, 09:47 PM
Manu is the guy this thread would makes sense for. He didn't get the change to be the #1 scorer or play maker for his team and played limited mins. I think for a couple of years he had the game to be a #1 dude legit team- kind of similar to Harden now vs if he stayed. TP was great in SA and would have been elsewhere to

alexander_37
07-26-2015, 09:50 PM
borderline? this guys ran the point for an incredible disciplined offensive unit while leading the league in point in the paint, being the best finisher in the league in the half court, didn;t hurt you on the other end, and showed up when it counted. TP developed into a HOF PG in SA. Nothing borderline about that.

HOF? Skill/talent wise yeah.

But he didn't put up the raw numbers to make the HOF. He is behind Deron Williams in terms of scoring and assists. He is clearly the better player but just as an analog.

alexander_37
07-26-2015, 09:51 PM
Manu is the guy this thread would makes sense for. He didn't get the change to be the #1 scorer or play maker for his team and played limited mins. I think for a couple of years he had the game to be a #1 dude legit team- kind of similar to Harden now vs if he stayed. TP was great in SA and would have been elsewhere to

I think SA saved Manu's career. Had he played more his body would have deteriorated even faster. He doesn't have the durability to play major minutes for a prolonged time.

ewing
07-26-2015, 10:00 PM
HOF? Skill/talent wise yeah.

But he didn't put up the raw numbers to make the HOF. He is behind Deron Williams in terms of scoring and assists. He is clearly the better player but just as an analog.

fancy way to say your post is stupid

alexander_37
07-26-2015, 10:01 PM
fancy way to say your post is stupid

:facepalm: or you just have poor comprehension skills.

ewing
07-26-2015, 10:02 PM
I think SA saved Manu's career. Had he played more his body would have deteriorated even faster. He doesn't have the durability to play major minutes for a prolonged time.


that just conjecture. we have no idea how his health would have played out in a different city. dude had the game to fulfill a role he wasn't asked to. i'd like to see what you would have happened if he was but neither of us know

alexander_37
07-26-2015, 10:04 PM
that just conjecture. we have no idea how his health would have played out in a different city. dude had the game to fulfill a role he wasn't asked to. i'd like to see what you would have happened if he was but neither of us know

It's the hall of fame. Not the hall of well if he stayed healthy.... All we have to go on is what we saw. At this point I doubt Parker ever gets in.

ewing
07-26-2015, 10:05 PM
:facepalm: or you just have poor comprehension skills.

you compared to D Will based on #s and then said well he clearly better and its just a comparison. yeah it is. i bad one by your own admission

ewing
07-26-2015, 10:06 PM
It's the hall of fame. Not the hall of well if he stayed healthy.... All we have to go on is what we saw. At this point I doubt Parker ever gets in.


that had nothing to do with the post you quoted.

alexander_37
07-26-2015, 10:06 PM
you compared to D Will based on #s and then said well he clearly better and its just a comparison. yeah it is. i bad one by your own admission

You one?

I compared him to a worse player as an analog. Dwill will never sniff the hall and Parker's per game numbers are worse. I literally said Parker had the talent but he never put it together.

I am just chalking this up to you cannot read.

ewing
07-26-2015, 10:08 PM
You one?

I compared him to a worse player as an analog. Dwill will never sniff the hall and Parker's per game numbers are worse. I literally said Parker had the talent but he never put it together.

I am just chalking this up to you cannot read.

you want to say the #s don't tell the whole story in this case and then say well look at the #s he doesn't fit the bill. Its dumb

alexander_37
07-26-2015, 10:09 PM
that had nothing to do with the post you quoted.

tapatalk sucks.

For Manu he played 26 mpg and couldn't stay healthy. Playing 30+ he would have played considerably less than he did. The guy rarely topped 60 games per season as it was.

ewing
07-26-2015, 10:12 PM
tapatalk sucks.

For Manu he played 26 mpg and couldn't stay healthy. Playing 30+ he would have played considerably less than he did. The guy rarely topped 60 games per season as it was.

oh i forgot when i said he did and was asked to do those thing in a different set of circumstances.

alexander_37
07-26-2015, 10:13 PM
oh i forgot when i said he did and was asked to do those thing in a different set of circumstances.

You can't seriously be saying had he played more he would have got hurt less?...

ewing
07-26-2015, 10:17 PM
You can't seriously be saying had he played more he would have got hurt less?...

idk what would have happened. i hurt my back 3 years ago. i 37 and still compete hard. i have had to pay sooo much more attention to my body after that one injury then anything ever. Manu has played pro ball for a long time and his body didn't collapse. we have no idea what would have happened under a different set of circumstances.

alexander_37
07-26-2015, 10:19 PM
idk what would have happened. i hurt my back 3 years ago. i 37 and still compete hard. i have had to pay sooo much more attention to my body after that one injury then anything ever. Manu has played pro ball for a long time and his body didn't collapse. we have no idea what would have happened under a different set of circumstances.

Because his minutes per game has gone down every single season for the last half decade...

ewing
07-26-2015, 10:21 PM
^^^ genius

alexander_37
07-26-2015, 10:22 PM
^^^ genius

So you make a stupid post instead of a logical argument...

Also you are far from an NBA athlete competing in the toughest basketball league in the world.

MTar786
07-26-2015, 10:25 PM
parker may not have been a superstar but he was def a perennial all star type player. and he could score in the paint just as good or even better than any other pg in the league

flea
07-26-2015, 10:27 PM
As I said in Manu/Parker thread, I think Manu is the better player among the two. But the dude did play hard in his short amount of minutes, on both ends of the floor. Really a nice well-rounded player who could do everything you ask of a SG. I always felt he was the better passer of the two as well.

As to Parker, yes he maxed out (whatever that means). He was a top 3-5 PG in his prime there once he got a jumper. He's a pure scoring guard and he definitely benefited from player on the Spurs screen-heavy system with one of the best P&R big men of all time. Even still, watching Parker and Duncan run the P&R is a thing of beauty. There aren't bonecrushing screens and lightning quick crossovers or first steps, but rather a finesse game that is textbook how you should do it. In prime, you go under and you surrender an easy midrange shot to Parker's quick release. Go over or switch and Duncan is one of the best at catching and finishing or sealing the help. Parker's J could run hot and cold, particular in playoffs and teams gameplanned for that, but it was still the foundation of the Spurs offense starting in 07 or so.

Very good to elite transition player as well with his speed, excellent footwork for a guard (or really for anyone), and really nice touch with scoops, floaters, runners, crazy layups, etc. Was never much of a passer (by elite PG standards) but could do enough with kickouts to make it dangerous to help too much. If Lebron had Parker's footwork and touch he would be on MJ's level as a scorer, even without a post game.

Weak and not all that athletic (by NBA guard standards) but a high-IQ player who knew his limits defensively and didn't constantly gamble and screw up his team's scheme. Pretty healthy throughout his prime and has a skill-based game that should keep him useful for a few more years - especially with the improvement in 3 point shooting of late that has allowed him to be a bigger threat. On another team I doubt he has the crazy efficiency numbers he posted in the paint, probably something closer to Westbrook's efficiency, but he'd still have been a good guard on any team so long as his coach accepted his limitations (shooting, defending, distributing).

ewing
07-26-2015, 10:49 PM
So you make a stupid post instead of a logical argument...

Also you are far from an NBA athlete competing in the toughest basketball league in the world.


yep

mightybosstone
07-27-2015, 09:07 AM
OP poses a lot of different questions with a lot of different answers. First off, to answer the question posed by the thread, Parker has absolutely peaked as a player. He will not get any better at this point in his career, and at the rate his production is deteriorating, I think it's really doubtful he ever plays at his peak level ever again.

However, I think you can look at the hypothetical of Parker on different teams in two different ways. If you put peak/prime Tony Parker on a different basketball team without Duncan, Manu and Pop that would require him to do more offensively, it's quite possible he could have put up bigger and better numbers. So could he have been better in that regard? Possibly.

But those teams would not have been remotely as good as the Spurs have been over the past decade and a half. And for what those Spurs teams may have done to his numbers, they easily made up for it with all of the postseason runs and team success. Without being on the Spurs, Parker's legacy would be a fraction of what it has become. He probably would just be another really good point guard who made a few All Star teams. Right now Parker is a lock to be enshrined in the Hall of Fame. Take him off the Spurs and that definitely becomes a different conversation even with all of his international accolades.

kobe4thewinbang
07-28-2015, 09:50 AM
He's an elite player, and I think being a Spur brings out the best in every player unless they have an ego or are lazy. Injuries are killing him now, though, which makes me question the contract extension. Unless he starts being more productive (scoring, or distributing, or shooting the 3 better) that contract will be icky if he can't stay on the court when conversely Duncan is beasting against father time.

phantasyyy
07-28-2015, 12:27 PM
It's the hall of fame. Not the hall of well if he stayed healthy.... All we have to go on is what we saw. At this point I doubt Parker ever gets in.

Are you kidding me? Lol he is a lock for the HOF. Remember its not just NBA credentials but also
International/Fiba play as well.

FIBA EuroBasket MVP (2013)
2× FIBA Europe Player of the Year (2013, 2014)
2× All-Europeans Player of the Year (2013, 2014)
2× Euroscar Award (2007, 2013)
FIBA Europe U-18 Championship MVP (2000)
2× L'Équipe Champion of Champions (2003, 2013)
not to mention his FIBA EuroBasket Medals, 2013(Gold), 2011(Silver), 2005(Bronze), under 18 2000(Gold)
-->straight off wiki lol.

Along with his NBA accomplishments, and a stat line of:
17/6/3/1 on just under 50fg% and he's a first ballot.

kdspurman
07-28-2015, 12:51 PM
Are you kidding me? Lol he is a lock for the HOF. Remember its not just NBA credentials but also
International/Fiba play as well.

FIBA EuroBasket MVP (2013)
2× FIBA Europe Player of the Year (2013, 2014)
2× All-Europeans Player of the Year (2013, 2014)
2× Euroscar Award (2007, 2013)
FIBA Europe U-18 Championship MVP (2000)
2× L'Équipe Champion of Champions (2003, 2013)
not to mention his FIBA EuroBasket Medals, 2013(Gold), 2011(Silver), 2005(Bronze), under 18 2000(Gold)
-->straight off wiki lol.

Along with his NBA accomplishments, and a stat line of:
17/6/3/1 on just under 50fg% and he's a first ballot.

Yup... He'll definitely get in. Idk why anyone would doubt that unless they forget it's not the NBA hall of fame, and even if it was, his NBA resume is not too shabby.

TheNumber37
07-28-2015, 01:46 PM
LOL, Role player.

He played under Pop's thumb in limited minutes his whole career.

If he played for Mike D. he'd be averaging 25 and 10.

I'd say due to his lack of minutes and the fact that he was never really their BEST or 1st option type player hurt his numbers and maybe hindered his max potential in that regard.

Tony is a HOFer

76erEaglePhils
07-30-2015, 04:25 PM
Tony Parker's skills can last a lifetime old age will take Parker out of the game not his skills or some make believe ceiling like the idiot who made this thread suggests.

JasonJohnHorn
08-01-2015, 08:42 AM
Role player is an insult Parker at his peak was a borderline star.

There's no border line about. He made All-NBA teams and All-Star teams. He has been a star for most of his career. Don't sell your argument short. You are spot on to say the the 'role player' term is an insult to him.