PDA

View Full Version : Take your team's peak all-time lineup; how many of them are beating this lineup?



RLundi
07-24-2015, 02:55 PM
Cycle through your team's player history. It doesn't matter if you had a player for a couple of days, a la Rasheed Wallace on the Hawks, or an entire career, like Duncan on the Spurs. Focus on their PEAK. Not just their peak on your team, but their peak in their CAREERS and make your favorite team's best lineup. Each player had to at least have played a game for your franchise, so Kobe can't count for the Hornets since he was traded before playing a game and Billups can't count for the Magic since he never played an NBA minute for the franchise. Who has the best lineup in NBA history?

So again, here are the rules:
1. Create a lineup (and be reasonable with the positions) with the 5 greatest players in your team's history. Focus on their CAREER PEAKS.

2. Each player you select has to have played at least a single game with your favorite team.

3. Matchup your lineup versus the Orlando Magic all-time peak starting lineup. Think your team will win?

Orlando Magic:

C Shaquille O'Neal
PF Dwight Howard
SF Grant Hill
SG Tracy McGrady
PG Penny Hardaway

Beat that.

KnicksYanks
07-24-2015, 02:57 PM
Fraizer
Earl the Pearl
Melo
Reed
Ewing

flea
07-24-2015, 03:01 PM
Not a Spurs fan but have a hard time seeing any team but maybe the Lakers/Celts beating this 12 man roster.

Parker/Johnson
Gervin/Ginobili/Robertson
Rodman/Leonard
Duncan/Horry/Diaw
Robinson/Gilmore

RLundi
07-24-2015, 03:06 PM
Not a Spurs fan but have a hard time seeing any team but maybe the Lakers/Celts beating this 12 man roster.

Parker/Johnson
Gervin/Ginobili/Robertson
Rodman/Leonard
Duncan/Horry/Diaw
Robinson/Gilmore

Houston comes close, besides the Magic ;)

C Olajuwan
PF Barkley
SF Pippen
SG Harden
PG Sam Cassell

That's pretty bad ***. Their peaks rival just about anyone IMO. You could sub out Drexler for Harden if that's your speed but this lineup to me is second best to Orlando's.

LakersIn5
07-24-2015, 03:19 PM
Not a Spurs fan but have a hard time seeing any team but maybe the Lakers/Celts beating this 12 man roster.

Parker/Johnson
Gervin/Ginobili/Robertson
Rodman/Leonard
Duncan/Horry/Diaw
Robinson/Gilmore

Dont forget tmac!

InRoseWeTrust
07-24-2015, 03:22 PM
Derrick Rose
Michael Jordan
Scottie Pippen
Dennis Rodman
Ben Wallace

WOwolfOL
07-24-2015, 03:22 PM
Go all Tonga Harding on their knees

jerellh528
07-24-2015, 03:36 PM
Shaq/wilt
Kareem/gasol
Baylor/worthy/artest
Kobe/west
Magic/Goodrich

Stuck with real lakers, not guys who only played a few seasons for the team or didn't have prime years here. So no Malone, Payton, Nash, etc.

Slug3
07-24-2015, 03:36 PM
Heat

PG - Gary Payton ( I could have put Timmy here, but Payton and his defense was just too good)
SG - Dwyane Wade
SF - Lebron James
PF - Zo
C - Shaq

Great defensive team and a great power offense team, but dang we would hurt shooting the 3, lol.

bucketss
07-24-2015, 03:42 PM
billups
carter
tmac
bosh
hakeem

RLundi
07-24-2015, 03:43 PM
Shaq/wilt
Kareem/gasol
Baylor/worthy/artest
Kobe/west
Magic/Goodrich

Stuck with real lakers, not guys who barely played for the team or didn't have prime years here. So no Malone, Payton, Nash, etc.

Even if you did choose players that didn't have prime years there, your 5 of "real Lakers" would still win out. That's how good the Lakers have been over the course of NBA history lol.

RLundi
07-24-2015, 03:45 PM
Heat

PG - Gary Payton ( I could have put Timmy here, but Payton and his defense was just too good)
SG - Dwyane Wade
SF - Lebron James
PF - Zo
C - Shaq

Great defensive team and a great power offense team, but dang we would hurt shooting the 3, lol.

Putting Bosh at the 4 spreads the floor a lot better...

RLundi
07-24-2015, 03:46 PM
Derrick Rose
Michael Jordan
Scottie Pippen
Dennis Rodman
Ben Wallace

Can't lie, this is pretty ****ing sick.

Slug3
07-24-2015, 03:48 PM
Putting Bosh at the 4 spreads the floor a lot better...

It does, but if I would probably go with moving Wade to SF and Lebron to PF and have Allen play SG to spread the floor. I just tend to like defense a lot better and think that starting 5 would be great. Shaq would be probably the worse defender on that team. not that Shaq was awesome on defense, but he was above average.

Bostonjorge
07-24-2015, 03:51 PM
Lakers

Howard
Malone
Rice
Richmond
Nash

Lakers

Wilt
Worthy
Baylor
West
Payton

Lakers

Shaq
KAJ
Kobe
Clarkson
Magic

Dade County
07-24-2015, 03:52 PM
Payton or Hardaway
Wade
Lbj
Zo or Bosh
Shaq

I think you said peak prime... Wade goes ham with a prime Shaq, it's just too much for me to imagine.

LakersIn5
07-24-2015, 04:13 PM
Suns kinda nice too

Shaq
Amare
Hill/Marion
VC
Nash

Nets
Mourning
Garnett
Pierce
VC
Kidd

Bostonjorge
07-24-2015, 04:42 PM
Whasington

Moses Malone
Webber
Jordan
Arenas
Monroe/wall

LakersIn5
07-24-2015, 04:58 PM
Grizzlies

Marc
Pau
VC
Iverson
Arenas

GREATNESS ONE
07-24-2015, 05:10 PM
Lakers

Howard
Malone
Rice
Richmond
Nash

Lakers

Wilt
Worthy
Baylor
West
Payton

Lakers

Shaq
KAJ
Kobe
Clarkson
Magic

Love ya bro but Clarkson??? 😂

Bostonjorge
07-24-2015, 05:35 PM
Lol with with 4 of the top 7 to ever to play the game anyone can be the 5th guy.

astrosmaniac
07-24-2015, 05:52 PM
Houston comes close, besides the Magic ;)

C Olajuwan
PF Barkley
SF Pippen
SG Harden
PG Sam Cassell

That's pretty bad ***. Their peaks rival just about anyone IMO. You could sub out Drexler for Harden if that's your speed but this lineup to me is second best to Orlando's.

Switch Harden with Drexler and Cassell with Calvin Murphy. That's truly the best team.

rhino17
07-24-2015, 06:13 PM
C: Moses Malone/Yao Ming/Dwight Howard
PF: Hakeem Olajuwon/Charles Barkley/Ralph Sampson
SF: Scottie Pippen/Tracy McGrady/Rudy T
SG: Clyde Drexler/James Harden/Mad Max
PG: Calvin Murphy/Steve Francis/Sam Cassel

Pretty damn stout

I would probably play Tmac or Harden at PG for a real starting 5, I think that would be hard to beat

Ty22Mitchell
07-24-2015, 06:23 PM
Love ya bro but Clarkson??? 😂

Lmfao.

You should of put Prime Rick Fox!


Or Kareem Rush.

thaShady
07-24-2015, 06:27 PM
Cycle through your team's player history. It doesn't matter if you had a player for a couple of days, a la Rasheed Wallace on the Hawks, or an entire career, like Duncan on the Spurs. Focus on their PEAK. Not just their peak on your team, but their peak in their CAREERS and make your favorite team's best lineup. Each player had to at least have played a game for your franchise, so Kobe can't count for the Hornets since he was traded before playing a game and Billups can't count for the Magic since he never played an NBA minute for the franchise. Who has the best lineup in NBA history?

So again, here are the rules:
1. Create a lineup (and be reasonable with the positions) with the 5 greatest players in your team's history. Focus on their CAREER PEAKS.

2. Each player you select has to have played at least a single game with your favorite team.

3. Matchup your lineup versus the Orlando Magic all-time peak starting lineup. Think your team will win?

Orlando Magic:

C Shaquille O'Neal
PF Dwight Howard
SF Grant Hill
SG Tracy McGrady
PG Penny Hardaway

Beat that.

I was going to list the exact same lineup because I didnt see who OP was. Cheers! Don't forget Steve Franchise, Gilbert Arenas, Vince Carter, Ben Wallace and Shawn Kemp coming off the bench.

KingPosey
07-24-2015, 06:34 PM
Mike Bibby----Darren Collison
Mitch Richmond-----Ben Mclemore
Peja Stojakovic (or i guess Ron Artest/MWP)-------Rudy Gay
C-Webb------Willy Cauley-Stein
Vlade/Brad Miller--------- Boogie Cousins

So except for Richmond, its all from the same squad. The only player id probably pick from this year's team is Boogie honestly.

They could steal some games from the OP's line up for sure.

KingPosey
07-24-2015, 06:39 PM
Heat

PG - Gary Payton ( I could have put Timmy here, but Payton and his defense was just too good)
SG - Dwyane Wade
SF - Lebron James
PF - Zo
C - Shaq

Great defensive team and a great power offense team, but dang we would hurt shooting the 3, lol.
That's where you wish you had room for glen rice

PowerHouse
07-24-2015, 07:02 PM
:facepalm:

You know a thread is getting ridiculously lame when Shaq's name is showing up for like 5 different franchises.

Allphakenny1
07-24-2015, 07:16 PM
:facepalm:

You know a thread is getting ridiculously lame when Shaq's name is showing up for like 5 different franchises.

Agreed. Each player should only be allowed to be on one team, the team they are known best for. That could be a part of the debate, what team a player is most recognized as playing for before we make all-time teams.

Clippersfan86
07-24-2015, 07:32 PM
PG- Chris Paul
SG- Randy Smith
SF- Bob McAdoo
PF- Blake Griffin
C- Elton Brand


Gonna move Brand to center because besides DJ, Clippers have never really had an all star caliber center. It's crazy to think about... but these Clippers now are really the best we've ever had pretty much. Randy Smith peaked higher 1 year, but Redick's last two years are on par or better than Randy Smith's best 2 in a Braves/Clippers uniform overall metrics. DJ's metrics are far superior to a broken down Bill Walton. Paul is BY FAR superior to any PG this team ever had. Griffin vs Brand are debatable, but Griffin still hasn't peaked.

You have no idea how happy I'd be to see Paul/Griffin/Jordan win a ring or two, be our first 3 retired jerseys in franchise history and play pretty much their entire careers together like Parker/Manu/Duncan (yes I realize we got Paul in year 5). Our "big 3" pretty much should be at the top of every Clippers all time record stat in the next 2 years or so.

RLundi
07-24-2015, 07:45 PM
:facepalm:

You know a thread is getting ridiculously lame when Shaq's name is showing up for like 5 different franchises.

Then don't post. That simple.

PowerHouse
07-24-2015, 07:54 PM
Then don't post. That simple.

It seems simple doesnt it? That kind of advice gets tossed around a lot on PSD but it just doesnt work that way. People want to give their opinions whether its supportive or unsupportive of the topic at hand.

ManRam
07-24-2015, 07:59 PM
Considering how young of a franchise they are, the Magic do stack up pretty well in hypothetical things like this. Obviously other older teams will do far better, but all things considered, Magic fans have watched some really great players.

ILLUSIONIST^248
07-24-2015, 09:04 PM
PG- Chris Paul
SG- Randy Smith
SF- Bob McAdoo
PF- Blake Griffin
C- Elton Brand


Gonna move Brand to center because besides DJ, Clippers have never really had an all star caliber center. It's crazy to think about... but these Clippers now are really the best we've ever had pretty much. Randy Smith peaked higher 1 year, but Redick's last two years are on par or better than Randy Smith's best 2 in a Braves/Clippers uniform overall metrics. DJ's metrics are far superior to a broken down Bill Walton. Paul is BY FAR superior to any PG this team ever had. Griffin vs Brand are debatable, but Griffin still hasn't peaked.

You have no idea how happy I'd be to see Paul/Griffin/Jordan win a ring or two, be our first 3 retired jerseys in franchise history and play pretty much their entire careers together like Parker/Manu/Duncan (yes I realize we got Paul in year 5). Our "big 3" pretty much should be at the top of every Clippers all time record stat in the next 2 years or so.

Lmao that's one awful all time team.

warfelg
07-24-2015, 09:18 PM
I think the Sixers can make a surprisingly good team:

PG - Mo Cheeks
SG - Allen Iverson
SF - Dr. J
PF - Charles Barkley
C - Wilt Chamberlain

Bench - Hal Greer (Guard), Doug Collins (Guard), Moses Malone (F/C), Andre Igudala (G/F), Kyle Korver (G/F), Billy Cunningham (F)

ManRam
07-24-2015, 09:25 PM
I think the Sixers can make a surprisingly good team:

PG - Mo Cheeks
SG - Allen Iverson
SF - Dr. J
PF - Charles Barkley
C - Wilt Chamberlain

Bench - Hal Greer (Guard), Doug Collins (Guard), Moses Malone (F/C), Andre Igudala (G/F), Kyle Korver (G/F), Billy Cunningham (F)

I'd start Moses over Chuck, but the fact that either is coming off the bench is absurd.

warfelg
07-24-2015, 09:34 PM
I'd start Moses over Chuck, but the fact that either is coming off the bench is absurd.

Moses gives size off the bench, Chuck doesn't. Hence the starting Chick and not Moses.

Like I said, all those guys at their peak is shockingly a great underrated team. Well balanced too.

ohreally
07-24-2015, 10:26 PM
Patrick Ewing/Willis Reed/Bob McAdoo
Dave DeBusschere/Jerry Lucas/Charles Oakley
Bernard King/Bill Bradley/Kiki Vandeweghe
Earl Monroe/Dick Barnett/Rolando Blackman
Walt Frazier/Micheal Ray Richardson/Dick McGuire

Patrick Ewing
Willis Reed
Bernard King
Micheal Ray Richardson
Walt Frazier

mrblisterdundee
07-24-2015, 10:35 PM
I'm selecting players based on the stage of their careers when they were on my team. Portland doesn't stand a chance, although Sabas in his 20s and not trading Moses Malone would have helped.

Portland vs. Orlando:
C - Arvydas Sabonis 1995-96 (24.7) vs. Shaquille O'Neal 1994-95 (28.6)
PF - Bill Walton 1977-78 (24.1) vs. Dwight Howard 2010-11 (26.1)
SF - Clyde Drexler 1987-88 (24.1) vs. Grant Hill 2004-05 (20)
SG - Brandon Roy 2008-09 (24) vs. Tracy McGrady 2002-03 (30.3)
PG - Terry Porter 1990-91 (21.7) vs. Penny Hardaway 1995-96 (24.6)

mrblisterdundee
07-24-2015, 10:48 PM
As for a line-up that can hang with Orlando that isn't the Los Angeles Lakes, how about the Heat vs. the Magic:

C - Shaquille O'Neal 2004-05 (27) vs. Shaquille O'Neal 1994-95 (28.6)
PF - Alonzo Mourning 1999-00 (25.6) vs. Dwight Howard 2010-11 (26.1)
SF - LeBron James 2012-13 (31.6) vs. Grant Hill 2004-05 (20)
SG - Dwyane Wade 2006-07 (28.9) vs. Tracy McGrady 2002-03 (30.3)
PG - Tim Hardaway 1996-97 (20.6) vs. Penny Hardaway 1995-96 (24.6)

mrblisterdundee
07-24-2015, 10:57 PM
Lmao that's one awful all time team.

Not really. The front court is beastly, albeit not as much as Orlando's; Chris Paul is legitimately better than Penny; and shooting guard is the only real weakness.

RLundi
07-24-2015, 11:35 PM
It seems simple doesnt it? That kind of advice gets tossed around a lot on PSD but it just doesnt work that way. People want to give their opinions whether its supportive or unsupportive of the topic at hand.

Make it simple. Be the change you want to see and go away. Who knows? Maybe you'll be a pioneer and blaze a trail. At the very least, you won't be bothered with what you term ridiculous lameness and we won't be bothered with a complete non-contribution to an otherwise healthy conversation.

RLundi
07-24-2015, 11:38 PM
I was going to list the exact same lineup because I didnt see who OP was. Cheers! Don't forget Steve Franchise, Gilbert Arenas, Vince Carter, Ben Wallace and Shawn Kemp coming off the bench.

Definitely forgot about Kemp! Idk whose prime I'd rather have at the 4, his or Dwight's. Also, add Ewing and Dominique Wilkins to the bench and we have the best team in NBA history lol.

Clippersfan86
07-24-2015, 11:42 PM
Not really. The front court is beastly, albeit not as much as Orlando's; Chris Paul is legitimately better than Penny; and shooting guard is the only real weakness.

Yea... not sure what he's talking about. Bob McAdoo peaked higher than many great players in NBA history. For example his peak was greater than Elgin Baylor's when you adjust for pace and possessions.

Bob McAdoo 1974: 30.6 ppg, 15.1 rpg, 3.3 bpg, 2.3 apg, 1.5 spg. WS/48 of .242, PER of 25, TS% of 59.5. The only Lakers players that have topped that WS/48 are Magic, Kareem and Wilt. That is a top 50 season ever of any player probably. So you have one the the best SF's ever, a 6 time all star to start his career in Blake Griffin, who's a lock for HOF but hasn't peaked yet. Then you have Brand who was a 20/10/3 guy with elite defense at his peak. If you guys are doing benches.... Michael Cage, Danny Manning, DeAndre Jordan is a great frontcourt bench. Basically as you said, frontcourt stacked. But the backcourt has been pretty horrendous outside of CP3 and a couple half decent PG's like Mark Jackson.

Clippers aren't going to look good compared to the Lakers, Celtics, Sixers etc... but they are in the running for one of the most underrated squads for sure.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-24-2015, 11:48 PM
C- Hakeem Olajuwon
PF- Chris Bosh
SF- Tracy McGrady
SG- Vince Carter
PG- Chauncey Billups

DODGERS&LAKERS
07-25-2015, 12:35 AM
Shaq/ Mikan
Kareem/Bynum
Wilt/ Malone
Pau/Worthy
Howard/Rodman

We're getting all the rebounds

PowerHouse
07-25-2015, 12:45 AM
Make it simple. Be the change you want to see and go away. Who knows? Maybe you'll be a pioneer and blaze a trail. At the very least, you won't be bothered with what you term ridiculous lameness and we won't be bothered with a complete non-contribution to an otherwise healthy conversation.

No idea what you're talking about with "be the change". The only person who is bothered by what was said is you. There is at least one person so far who has agreed with my point. Its no concern of mine if you choose to be offended by my comment, I dont consider what was said as being as harsh as you seem to be taking it. I'm just going to continue to give my totally honest opinion. If you cant take the slightest ounce of crticism then maybe you should "be the change" and stop making threads.

Munkeysuit
07-25-2015, 12:55 AM
Cleveland Cavaliers

PG - Kyrie Irving
SG - World B Free
SF - Lebron James
PF - Kevin Love
C - Brad Daugherty

ChI_ShIzzLe
07-25-2015, 01:18 AM
Rose

Jordan

Pippen

Brand

Rodman

basch152
07-25-2015, 03:22 AM
Jesus people, you cant usr a player because he played far past his prime for your team for one year. That's just ********.

rockets-fan
07-25-2015, 03:29 AM
Rockets:

Hakeem/Yao/Howard
Barkley/Horry/Sampson
Tmac/Pippen
Harden/Drexler
Cassell/Francis

Look at that bench team too!

Saddletramp
07-25-2015, 04:27 AM
Picking only five with the Rockets:

Harden
Drexler
T Mac
Hakeem
Malone



That's just ****ing nasty. And Barkley, Murphy, Dwight, Yao, Pippen, Francis, Sampson on the bench? Jaysus

RLundi
07-25-2015, 06:51 AM
No idea what you're talking about with "be the change". The only person who is bothered by what was said is you. There is at least one person so far who has agreed with my point. Its no concern of mine if you choose to be offended by my comment, I dont consider what was said as being as harsh as you seem to be taking it. I'm just going to continue to give my totally honest opinion. If you cant take the slightest ounce of crticism then maybe you should "be the change" and stop making threads.

No duh, I'm the only one bothered, I created the thread lol.

IBleedPurple
07-25-2015, 12:47 PM
Billups/Fat Lever/Iverson/Abdul-Rauf
David Thompson
Melo
Alex English/LaPhonso Ellis/Kenyon Martin
Mutumbo/Camby/Issel

Other 2s and 3s are escaping me, maybe Mark Jackson or Dale Ellis. But yeah....not much of a shot at winning. This team could score a lot of points 1-4, more if Mutumbo was more of a post threat.

Lucky.
07-25-2015, 01:19 PM
Chauncey Billups - Bob Cousy
John Havelicek - Ray Allen
Larry Bird - Paul Pierce
Kevin Garnett - Kevin McHale
Shaquille O'Neal - Bill Russell

mrblisterdundee
07-25-2015, 02:09 PM
C- Hakeem Olajuwon
PF- Chris Bosh
SF- Tracy McGrady
SG- Vince Carter
PG- Chauncey Billups

This is why threads need to be more specific. Hakeem Olajuwon was a broken-down old man when he played for Toronto; and Chauncey Billups was a role player. More like:

PG - Kyle Lowry 2013-14
SG - Vince Carter 2000-01
SF - Tracy McGrady 1999-00
PF - Chris Bosh 2009-10
C - Andrea Bargnani 2011-12

mrblisterdundee
07-25-2015, 02:24 PM
Picking only five with the Rockets:

Harden
Drexler
T Mac
Hakeem
Malone



That's just ****ing nasty. And Barkley, Murphy, Dwight, Yao, Pippen, Francis, Sampson on the bench? Jaysus

Yeah; the rockets could give the Magic a run for their money. I'd be so bold as to make Clyde Drexler the sixth man, with Charles Barkley as a small forward and Tracy McGrady as a shooting guard. It's close:

C - Hakeem Olajuwon 1992-93 (27.3) vs. Shaquille O'Neal 1994-95 (28.6)
PF - Moses Malone 1981-82 (26.8) vs. Dwight Howard 2010-11 (26.1)
SF - Charles Barkley 1996-97 (23) vs. Grant Hill 2004-05 (20)
SG - Tracy McGrady 2006-07 (23.2) vs. Tracy McGrady 2002-03 (30.3)
PG - James Harden 2014-15 (26.7) vs. Penny Hardaway 1995-96 (24.6)

DanG
07-25-2015, 02:25 PM
I've wanted to make a thread like this, but knew everyone would put Shaq on the Celtics and think he is in his prime etc. This could be a great debate actually.

Many teams could beat this Orlando team because Grant Hill and Shaq don't actually belong on the team. Hill will be remembered as a piston and Shaq as a laker.

Verbal Christ
07-25-2015, 02:37 PM
Lakers pretty easily win this hypothetical scenario.

PowerHouse
07-25-2015, 04:00 PM
No duh, I'm the only one bothered, I created the thread lol.

Very insightful point with the no duh. I guess you forgot you said this:


At the very least, you won't be bothered with what you term ridiculous lameness and we won't be bothered with a complete non-contribution to an otherwise healthy conversation.

JasonJohnHorn
07-25-2015, 05:10 PM
That is a horrid line-up to be frank. Shaq and Howard would leave no room for each other on offense. TMac would throw up too many shots, Penny and Shaq wouldn't get along.

A team with Grant Hill and Shaq would be great....

Anywho... here's Detroit:

Isiah Thomas/Chuancey Billups/Bing
Joe Dumars/Rip Hamilton
Grant Hill/Mark Aguire
Dennis Rodman/Rasheed Wallace
Ben Wallace/Bill Laimbeer/Lainer



Since that is pretty much combining two championship teams together, I'm pretty sure they could handle a roster that only has one champion on it.

ManRam
07-25-2015, 05:16 PM
That is a horrid line-up to be frank. Shaq and Howard would leave no room for each other on offense. TMac would throw up too many shots, Penny and Shaq wouldn't get along.


Logistically it would be tough with Dwight and Shaq, yes. Talent-wise, though, it's quite impressive for such a young franchise (5th youngest).

Your T-Mac comment is stupid, too. Pretending like peak T-Mac would be a detriment :laugh: Penny and Grant don't need tons of shots anyways.

warfelg
07-25-2015, 05:48 PM
Best part of my Sixers lineup:
Every play actually was at their peak when they played for us.

alexander_37
07-25-2015, 06:39 PM
Peak T-mac is probably a top 10ish player of all time... That was an insane statement.

JasonJohnHorn
07-25-2015, 07:35 PM
Logistically it would be tough with Dwight and Shaq, yes. Talent-wise, though, it's quite impressive for such a young franchise (5th youngest).

Your T-Mac comment is stupid, too. Pretending like peak T-Mac would be a detriment :laugh: Penny and Grant don't need tons of shots anyways.

I will concede that T-Mac played at a level that few have reached in his prime. But that doesn't mean that it would translate to good chemistry or wins.

And yes, with Penny, Shaq, and Dwight on the team, and the way T-Mac dominated the ball, there would be SERIOUS chemistry issues. SERIOUS. I'm not saying T-Mac's skill set would have been bad for business, I'm saying that his style of play would cause issues. And it would. He looked great in Orlando because there was nobody to share the ball with, and in Houston Yao was injured a lot and happy to be a second option, but you put T-Mac with Penny and Howard and Shaq... let's not pretend that it will be all smiles. The only guys on that roster that know how to share are Hill and Shaq, and even Shaq is only willing to do it when he's getting the lion's share (though as he slowed down he was willing to defer more).

Shaq and Hill would have been a great pairing, but they would need a point guard like Stockton or CP3, a shooting guard like Ray Allen or Reggie Miller, and either a defensive forward like Rodman, or a stretch four like Love or Bird.

My concern isn't talent level; it's chemistry. But yes, T-Mac was AMAZING in his prime.

And it's not about 'Penny and Grant need a lot of shots', it's a matter of BOTH are accustomed to bringing up the ball and making plays, and handling the ball, and in Penny's case, whether he 'needs' the shots or not, he wants them. Yes, Hill would blend into the team and would provide a complete skill set, but let's not pretend like Howard and T-Mac and Shaq and Penny won't all be wanting (and likely demanding) 20 shots a game. I mean, even when Howard and the Magic were WINNING in the playoffs, and made it to the final, Howard was going into post-game interviews talking about how he needed more touches AFTER THEY WON games.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-25-2015, 08:51 PM
This is why threads need to be more specific. Hakeem Olajuwon was a broken-down old man when he played for Toronto; and Chauncey Billups was a role player. More like:

PG - Kyle Lowry 2013-14
SG - Vince Carter 2000-01
SF - Tracy McGrady 1999-00
PF - Chris Bosh 2009-10
C - Andrea Bargnani 2011-12

Antonio Davis better than Bargnani there.

mike_noodles
07-25-2015, 09:39 PM
Antonio Davis better than Bargnani there.

Honestly, I would slide Bosh over and bring Oakley.

Cal827
07-25-2015, 09:47 PM
Well, seeing that probably our 2nd best player (albeit when he moved on) would be marred by himself on defense, probably wouldn't win... but who wouldn't want to see T-mac vs T-mac on the court :laugh2:

Spurs might be able to if we're talking peaks (even if they weren't there when they were in their peak)

PG: Tony Parker
SG: Tracy Mcgrady
SF: Dominique Wilkins
PF: Tim Duncan
C: David Robinson

Cal827
07-25-2015, 09:48 PM
That is a horrid line-up to be frank. Shaq and Howard would leave no room for each other on offense. TMac would throw up too many shots, Penny and Shaq wouldn't get along.

A team with Grant Hill and Shaq would be great....

Anywho... here's Detroit:

Isiah Thomas/Chuancey Billups
Joe Dumars/Rip Hamilton
Grant Hill/Mark Aguire
Dennis Rodman/Rasheed Wallace
Ben Wallace/Bill Laimbeer



Since that is pretty much combining two championship teams together, I'm pretty sure they could handle a roster that only has one champion on it.

Rodman would just plain mess with Howard on the inside :laugh:

ManRam
07-25-2015, 09:52 PM
I totally missed how JJH said Dwight and Shaq wouldn't work and then threw Rodman and Wallace right at us :laugh:

basch152
07-26-2015, 12:04 AM
I totally missed how JJH said Dwight and Shaq wouldn't work and then threw Rodman and Wallace right at us :laugh:

Uh... Rodman and wallace don't mess with each other, neither are a post player.

That being said, starting rasheed and putting one of those two on the bench so yoy can have a low post scorer that can also stretch the floor would be a much better l.ineup.

I would also consider starting chauncey just for more spacing. Isiah would still get more time overall though.

That detroit team is just nasty though. Defensive allstars top to bottom. Hands down would be thr best defensive team ever.

mrblisterdundee
07-26-2015, 12:17 AM
Antonio Davis better than Bargnani there.

I could go with Davis instead. Bargnani's better offensively, but Davis is better every other way.

BrandoCommando
07-26-2015, 06:02 AM
Stephen Curry
Chris Mullin
Rick Barry
Nate Thurmond
Wilt Chamberlain

JasonJohnHorn
07-26-2015, 08:33 AM
I totally missed how JJH said Dwight and Shaq wouldn't work and then threw Rodman and Wallace right at us :laugh:

You don't have to play both of them at the same time... you got Sheed and Laimbeer to play along either side of them when one's on the court and the other is on the bench.

You have two of the best rebounders in the last 30 years splittin minutes and you think that's going to be a problem a good coach won't handle with a solid rotation?

Besides, while Big Ben was never much of a scorer, Rodman was more than capable of posting double digits during the Bad Boys initial championship run, he just changed his game afterwards and focused on rebounding and defence. He was far more offensively capable than people remember him being, and Chuck Daly even said once that in practice Rodman was their best 3-point shooter.

RLundi
07-26-2015, 11:44 AM
Very insightful point with the no duh. I guess you forgot you said this:

What would you like here? My point is the same, don't post, it's still as simple as when I first said it to you. Don't like a thread, don't bother anyone in the thread, or at the very least contribute something, anything even remotely meaningful to the discussion. Otherwise, don't bother us. Oh noes, I said "us" again!

RLundi
07-26-2015, 11:56 AM
That is a horrid line-up to be frank. Shaq and Howard would leave no room for each other on offense. TMac would throw up too many shots, Penny and Shaq wouldn't get along.

A team with Grant Hill and Shaq would be great....

Anywho... here's Detroit:

Isiah Thomas/Chuancey Billups
Joe Dumars/Rip Hamilton
Grant Hill/Mark Aguire
Dennis Rodman/Rasheed Wallace
Ben Wallace/Bill Laimbeer



Since that is pretty much combining two championship teams together, I'm pretty sure they could handle a roster that only has one champion on it.

How is the Magic lineup horrid when you're trotting out Ben Wallace and Rodman? At least Shaq could be a dominant post player on offense and Dwight could be the defensive anchor on the other side of the ball. Your lineup with Rodman and Wallace render them both nonexistent on offense. And even if they both focus on defense, where are you going to hide them on offense? They are going to be roaming the paint and staying close inside, all the while causing hideous spacing issues. I agree Shaq and Dwight are not ideal, but your lineup's front court is infinitely worse man.

And LOL about players not getting along. You are WAAAAYYYYY overthinking this, especially with headcases like Rodman, Wallace and Isiah Thomas on your team.

PowerHouse
07-26-2015, 05:45 PM
What would you like here? My point is the same, don't post, it's still as simple as when I first said it to you. Don't like a thread, don't bother anyone in the thread, or at the very least contribute something, anything even remotely meaningful to the discussion. Otherwise, don't bother us. Oh noes, I said "us" again!

My point was not supportive of your stance and thats why you took offense and had a hissy-fit but it was a valid point none the less. I said that Shaq's name was coming up for a bunch of different franchises and thereby it IMO was losing the luster with what could have been an interesting thread. What I said was insinuating that some other rules could have been established up front like a player can represent only one team or a player has to play x amount of years with a team to qualify, playing only one game is nowhere near enough. And it makes it very difficult to imagine these teams facing each other when its the same player playing against himself.

JasonJohnHorn
07-26-2015, 05:59 PM
How is the Magic lineup horrid when you're trotting out Ben Wallace and Rodman? At least Shaq could be a dominant post player on offense and Dwight could be the defensive anchor on the other side of the ball. Your lineup with Rodman and Wallace render them both nonexistent on offense. And even if they both focus on defense, where are you going to hide them on offense? They are going to be roaming the paint and staying close inside, all the while causing hideous spacing issues. I agree Shaq and Dwight are not ideal, but your lineup's front court is infinitely worse man.

And LOL about players not getting along. You are WAAAAYYYYY overthinking this, especially with headcases like Rodman, Wallace and Isiah Thomas on your team.

First, as mentioned, you can slide Sheed or Laimbeer alongside Rodman or Wallace depending on how you want your rotation to work.

Second, we already know that the 'headcases' you described can win championships. Rodman and Thomas won two together, and Rodman won an additional three. And Rodman and Thomas beat Magic's Lakers, Bird's Celtics and Jordan's Bulls to win them.

As for chemistry... it's not a matter of over thinking it: Penny and Shaq split up because their egos clashed; and they failed to win against a roster that featured Rodman. McGrady left Toronto in part because he wanted the ball more and didn't want to share it with Carter. It's not like there wouldn't be an issue.

As for Shaq's dominance, he not only lost in the finals to Wallace+Wallace, but he also GOT SWEPT by a Bulls team that had Rodman and Luc Longley, starting: you think Bill Laimbeer or Ben Wallace is a worse option than Longely?

You say I'm overthinking this: sounds to me like you didn't think enough.

Also, Sheed owned Howard every time they went head to head in the playoffs, and neither Shaq nor Howard have the defensive ability to guard a stretch center like Laimbeer and recover to guard the paint. You put Sheed and Laimbeer out there to spread the floor, and they are either getting wide-open 3's, or Thomas and Bills and just going to drive into the lane.

I don't get why people think it is so strange that combining the best players from two championship teams would not give you a team that could beat a squad with All-Star players, of whom only one won a championship. Just because they are all good, doesn't mean they will play well together.

RLundi
07-26-2015, 06:38 PM
First, as mentioned, you can slide Sheed or Laimbeer alongside Rodman or Wallace depending on how you want your rotation to work.

Second, we already know that the 'headcases' you described can win championships. Rodman and Thomas won two together, and Rodman won an additional three. And Rodman and Thomas beat Magic's Lakers, Bird's Celtics and Jordan's Bulls to win them.

As for chemistry... it's not a matter of over thinking it: Penny and Shaq split up because their egos clashed; and they failed to win against a roster that featured Rodman. McGrady left Toronto in part because he wanted the ball more and didn't want to share it with Carter. It's not like there wouldn't be an issue.

As for Shaq's dominance, he not only lost in the finals to Wallace+Wallace, but he also GOT SWEPT by a Bulls team that had Rodman and Luc Longley, starting: you think Bill Laimbeer or Ben Wallace is a worse option than Longely?

You say I'm overthinking this: sounds to me like you didn't think enough.

Also, Sheed owned Howard every time they went head to head in the playoffs, and neither Shaq nor Howard have the defensive ability to guard a stretch center like Laimbeer and recover to guard the paint. You put Sheed and Laimbeer out there to spread the floor, and they are either getting wide-open 3's, or Thomas and Bills and just going to drive into the lane.

One: reading comprehension. Never did I mention jotting down an entire team. It was merely a starting lineup. If you wanted to add a bench, fine, that's your business, but don't sit here and pretend like I'm discussing subbing players in and out. I'm not, nor did I ever mention that. Don't concoct things and expect everyone else to know what you're doing and following suit. Fact is, your Rodman and Wallace pairing is bad. But this thread wasn't intended on even being about that. This is purely about the great players that have passed through an organization.

Second, if headcases can win championships, why did you even bring up the idea about players not playing well together or fighting or (foolishly) telling ManRam T-Mac would demand the ball too much (when he was a phenomenal team player and good distributor for his position)? If it's unimportant, why even bring it up? Only when it lends credence to your argument that the Magic's lineup wouldn't work? Splendid reasoning.

As for chemistry, like I said, overthinking it. Most people seem to have gotten the point of the thread. You haven't. For that, I am dearly sorry, but that's something you need to focus on on your own time.

As for Shaq's dominance, I appreciate your logical fallacy at work. As if the only reason Shaq lost to the Bulls and Pistons were because of their front lines. Never mind that Orlando was a young team and lost to a team having the best coach and player in league history or disregard the fact that Shaq and Kobe despised each other, Phil Jackson had essentially stopped coaching, and the Pistons were truly a well-oiled. machine; the only thing that mattered in those series were the center-power forward combinations that Shaq faced.

Also, that Magic team is beating that Pistons team, even if we're no longer talking about the sheer amount of star power that have played for franchises. You won't find a sensible basketball mind that says that the Pistons lineup would best the Magic lineup.

JasonJohnHorn
07-26-2015, 07:52 PM
One: reading comprehension. Never did I mention jotting down an entire team. It was merely a starting lineup. If you wanted to add a bench, fine, that's your business, but don't sit here and pretend like I'm discussing subbing players in and out. I'm not, nor did I ever mention that. Don't concoct things and expect everyone else to know what you're doing and following suit. Fact is, your Rodman and Wallace pairing is bad. But this thread wasn't intended on even being about that. This is purely about the great players that have passed through an organization.

Second, if headcases can win championships, why did you even bring up the idea about players not playing well together or fighting or (foolishly) telling ManRam T-Mac would demand the ball too much (when he was a phenomenal team player and good distributor for his position)? If it's unimportant, why even bring it up? Only when it lends credence to your argument that the Magic's lineup wouldn't work? Splendid reasoning.

As for chemistry, like I said, overthinking it. Most people seem to have gotten the point of the thread. You haven't. For that, I am dearly sorry, but that's something you need to focus on on your own time.

As for Shaq's dominance, I appreciate your logical fallacy at work. As if the only reason Shaq lost to the Bulls and Pistons were because of their front lines. Never mind that Orlando was a young team and lost to a team having the best coach and player in league history or disregard the fact that Shaq and Kobe despised each other, Phil Jackson had essentially stopped coaching, and the Pistons were truly a well-oiled. machine; the only thing that mattered in those series were the center-power forward combinations that Shaq faced.

Also, that Magic team is beating that Pistons team, even if we're no longer talking about the sheer amount of star power that have played for franchises. You won't find a sensible basketball mind that says that the Pistons lineup would best the Magic lineup.

Wow, you are testy.

I included multiple guys because there is debate as to who would start. Detroit had a LOT of great players. Who is their best C? Which C would match up best? Laimbeer? Lanier? Wallace? It depends

As to what a 'basketball' mind would say, I've been watching it for decades. I've seen Thomas take on a big point guard in Magic Johnson and get the better of him. You aren't going to convince me that Penny Hardaway is going to prove a tougher match up than Magic Johnson. If you have a 'basketball' mind, you'll know that.

As for shooting guard, I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but Joe Dumars when head-to-head with Michael Jordan and came out on top 3/4 years. You think T-Mac is going to be tougher to guard than Jordan?

As for Hill... well... the Pistons had Hill in his prime. Pistons Hill vs. Magic Hill is a joke.

If you want to go on about Shaq being dominant, I'll point to the fact that Shaq got taken down by Ben Wallace in the finals in 2005, and Rahseed Wallace owned Howard every time they met in the playoffs.

No I've given you examples of match up that ACTUALLY happened. What do you got?

You want to go with a Thomas/Dumars/Hill/Sheed/Big Ben match up, there is precedent for each of those players actually out lasting the guys on your team IN ACTUAL PLAYOFF GAMES, or outlasting guys who were unquestionable better (Jorcan > TMac; Magic > Penny).

As for chemistry, rather than address my point, you simply say "You're over thinking it." You aren't thinking enough. Shaq, Howard, TMac and Penny ALL WANT THE BALL. Chemistry is about finding a balance. That Pistons roster has proven those guys will share the ball to win. Chemistry us huge. You want to take that out of the conversation, fine, but I didn't think your question was "Who has a better fantasy team", I thought it was WHO WOULD WIN. Just because you dump a bunch of guys that have great fantasy number together doesn't mean they will play well.

If you don't think a 'sensible' basketball mind would spot the HUGE chemistry issues with YOUR line up, and see the PROVEN championship calibre play of that Pistons line-up, then you are just being a homer. I get it. You're partial to your team that has never won a championship, you ignore chemistry, think fantasy number and All-Star cred will win the game, and ignore proven players who have won ACTUAL playoff games against the ACTUAL talent you have mention, or talent that is clearly superior.


That's fine. But you are deluding yourself, because you refuse to look at the on-court accomplishments of the players I mentioned and consider who they achieved those accomplishments against. What did TMac do in the playoffs? What championships did Howard and Penny win? What did Hill do in the post season? Even Shaq, when he was in a Magic uniform, failed to win a title.

All I see in your case is a homer hanging onto fantasy numbers and then say somebody who actually thought this is thinking too much and then make some offhanded comment about a 'sensible' basketball mind.

I'll stick with what I've seen on the court. You stick with your imagination.

RLundi
07-26-2015, 09:12 PM
wow, you are testy.

I included multiple guys because there is debate as to who would start. Detroit had a lot of great players. Who is their best c? Which c would match up best? Laimbeer? Lanier? Wallace? It depends

as to what a 'basketball' mind would say, i've been watching it for decades. I've seen thomas take on a big point guard in magic johnson and get the better of him. You aren't going to convince me that penny hardaway is going to prove a tougher match up than magic johnson. If you have a 'basketball' mind, you'll know that.

As for shooting guard, i'm not sure if you are aware of this, but joe dumars when head-to-head with michael jordan and came out on top 3/4 years. You think t-mac is going to be tougher to guard than jordan?

As for hill... Well... The pistons had hill in his prime. Pistons hill vs. Magic hill is a joke.

If you want to go on about shaq being dominant, i'll point to the fact that shaq got taken down by ben wallace in the finals in 2005, and rahseed wallace owned howard every time they met in the playoffs.

No i've given you examples of match up that actually happened. What do you got?

You want to go with a thomas/dumars/hill/sheed/big ben match up, there is precedent for each of those players actually out lasting the guys on your team in actual playoff games, or outlasting guys who were unquestionable better (jorcan > tmac; magic > penny).

As for chemistry, rather than address my point, you simply say "you're over thinking it." you aren't thinking enough. Shaq, howard, tmac and penny all want the ball. Chemistry is about finding a balance. That pistons roster has proven those guys will share the ball to win. Chemistry us huge. You want to take that out of the conversation, fine, but i didn't think your question was "who has a better fantasy team", i thought it was who would win. Just because you dump a bunch of guys that have great fantasy number together doesn't mean they will play well.

If you don't think a 'sensible' basketball mind would spot the huge chemistry issues with your line up, and see the proven championship calibre play of that pistons line-up, then you are just being a homer. I get it. You're partial to your team that has never won a championship, you ignore chemistry, think fantasy number and all-star cred will win the game, and ignore proven players who have won actual playoff games against the actual talent you have mention, or talent that is clearly superior.


That's fine. But you are deluding yourself, because you refuse to look at the on-court accomplishments of the players i mentioned and consider who they achieved those accomplishments against. What did tmac do in the playoffs? What championships did howard and penny win? What did hill do in the post season? Even shaq, when he was in a magic uniform, failed to win a title.

All i see in your case is a homer hanging onto fantasy numbers and then say somebody who actually thought this is thinking too much and then make some offhanded comment about a 'sensible' basketball mind.

I'll stick with what i've seen on the court. You stick with your imagination.

Tbh, TL;DR.

Shady66
07-26-2015, 10:58 PM
Then don't post. That simple.
Then don't watch.