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View Full Version : Did anyone watch the Player Awards on BET?



jerellh528
07-22-2015, 05:02 AM
If so, how was it?

Gander13SM
07-22-2015, 05:08 AM
Lol I completely forgot this was a thing. Is anyone taking it serious? I mean historically the majority of players have proven they're terrible at evaluating talent. The whole thing seems like a fad to me.

Gander13SM
07-22-2015, 05:10 AM
Just googled it. Apparently Deandre Jordan won best defensive player. Point proven haha.

RLundi
07-22-2015, 06:03 AM
Oh that was this year? I thought the new head of the player's association was going to push for it next year, or in the next CBA or something. Did anyone watch? Did anyone care? This is embarrassing for the players if true. And why was it on BET for crying out loud? :laugh2:

LakersIn5
07-22-2015, 07:29 AM
Lol I completely forgot this was a thing. Is anyone taking it serious? I mean historically the majority of players have proven they're terrible at evaluating talent. The whole thing seems like a fad to me.

Yup and stat geeks and keyboard warriors know more than the actual players that actually play with and against each other

Thumper 88
07-22-2015, 10:06 AM
I didn't watch & tbh I didn't even know it exsisted.

I did hear this morning that Chris Paul made fun of Dirk? Like wtf have you ever done in the NBA compared to Dirk lmao

Tony_Starks
07-22-2015, 10:44 AM
If so, how was it?


It was alright. Steph Curry got hardest to guard and most clutch. Lebron was teammate you secretly wish was on your squad. Harden mvp. Iverson got like a achievement award.

All in all fairly dope show, even though we all know the actual players know nothing compared to the couch potato calculator squad.

Chronz
07-22-2015, 10:44 AM
Yup and stat geeks and keyboard warriors know more than the actual players that actually play with and against each other
Ummm yeah. Appealing to authority only undermines your own intelligence. Some of us know how dumb these guys are. Hell some of the players didn't even like the idea of the votes. Its about the argument at hand , not so much who's behind the opinion. Being athletically gifted doesn't make you smarter, its why the egg heads run the squads/lg while the athletes just perform

cmellofan15
07-22-2015, 10:49 AM
It was alright. Steph Curry got hardest to guard and most clutch. Lebron was teammate you secretly wish was on your squad. Harden mvp. Iverson got like a achievement award.

All in all fairly dope show, even though we all know the actual players know nothing compared to the couch potato calculator squad.

lmao so you completely agree with everything professional athletes say?

Hawkeye15
07-22-2015, 10:52 AM
It was alright. Steph Curry got hardest to guard and most clutch. Lebron was teammate you secretly wish was on your squad. Harden mvp. Iverson got like a achievement award.

All in all fairly dope show, even though we all know the actual players know nothing compared to the couch potato calculator squad.

yikes, you agree with what the pros say? Most couldn't pass alegbra. But they play, right? How did that work out of Jordan? Who are the best GM's in the game? Ex players?

sixer04fan
07-22-2015, 10:59 AM
Watched the first half hour, had to turn it off

Chronz
07-22-2015, 11:06 AM
Oh that was this year? I thought the new head of the player's association was going to push for it next year, or in the next CBA or something. Did anyone watch? Did anyone care? This is embarrassing for the players if true. And why was it on BET for crying out loud? :laugh2:
Did they even promote this thing is what I'm wondering.

Chronz
07-22-2015, 11:08 AM
yikes, you agree with what the pros say? Most couldn't pass alegbra. But they play, right? How did that work out of Jordan? Who are the best GM's in the game? Ex players?
To be fair. MJ has gotten smart enough to let the nerds run his team more than he used to.

Chronz
07-22-2015, 11:11 AM
All that said. Which of the results did you guys find laughable? Doesn't seem bad except for DJ winning dpoy but even the media and coaches almost fell for that. He's super important but dpoy?

b_russ
07-22-2015, 11:28 AM
Just googled it. Apparently Deandre Jordan won best defensive player. Point proven haha.

But his blocks are so dope.

mjt20mik
07-22-2015, 11:39 AM
This proves it... Harden should have gotten MVP. His team had no help and while Steph had an amazing season, his team was extremely healthy.

Tony_Starks
07-22-2015, 11:43 AM
It was alright. Steph Curry got hardest to guard and most clutch. Lebron was teammate you secretly wish was on your squad. Harden mvp. Iverson got like a achievement award.

All in all fairly dope show, even though we all know the actual players know nothing compared to the couch potato calculator squad.

lmao so you completely agree with everything professional athletes say?


Please tell me how you got that from THAT?

Tony_Starks
07-22-2015, 11:46 AM
It was alright. Steph Curry got hardest to guard and most clutch. Lebron was teammate you secretly wish was on your squad. Harden mvp. Iverson got like a achievement award.

All in all fairly dope show, even though we all know the actual players know nothing compared to the couch potato calculator squad.

yikes, you agree with what the pros say? Most couldn't pass alegbra. But they play, right? How did that work out of Jordan? Who are the best GM's in the game? Ex players?

I place a substantial amount of value on the opinion of current players about current players. MJ is irrelevant.

And most guys couldn't pass algebra?

Really? That's Archie Bunker material...

Verbal Christ
07-22-2015, 12:34 PM
So the majority here feel that the word of the window washer outside the building watching the meeting is more valuable then the people who are actually having the meeting? How fitting for this site. LOL

WaDe03
07-22-2015, 12:37 PM
So the majority here feel that the word of the window washer outside the building watching the meeting is more valuable then the people who are actually having the meeting? How fitting for this site. LOL

Yea lol, it's pretty bad.

CluTcH_c1tY
07-22-2015, 12:41 PM
So what does academic aptitude have to do in evaluating players? These are peers ranking peers. So let's just stop showing NFL top 100 as well since most of those players couldn't pass macro economics in college.

sixer04fan
07-22-2015, 12:52 PM
So the majority here feel that the word of the window washer outside the building watching the meeting is more valuable then the people who are actually having the meeting? How fitting for this site. LOL

I actually think there's a ton of validity in the players voting for their own awards. More so than the media voting.

I just couldn't watch it because I thought the ceremony blew. Lil Wayne was great I thought and Jay Pharaoh led off with some funny jokes/impressions, but it was all downhill for me after that.

Saddletramp
07-22-2015, 01:14 PM
Lebron won the Guy You Secretly Wished Was On Your Team award? "Secretly?" Really?

Gander13SM
07-22-2015, 01:21 PM
Yup and stat geeks and keyboard warriors know more than the actual players that actually play with and against each other

Did I say that? And a lot of them do but that wasn't the point I was making. Players don't have to be good at evaluating others to be good players.

Look at what Jordan has done as a manager... draft horrible players over and over. Sign crappy free agents. But he's one of the greatest players ever. The two don't go hand in hand.

The vast majority of players turned analysts and players turned managers have failed miserably and are terrible at evaluating talent. I don't see how anyone can think otherwise.

Coaches, managers who studied the game and professional scouts are better. Basketball heads. Guys who are extremely knowledgable about the sport, or the science behind it. I trust their opinion more.

I mean DJ won best defensive player. That tells you everything.

Gander13SM
07-22-2015, 01:25 PM
I guess when evaluating talent we should be listening to Shaq and Barkleys opinion over Popovich and John Hollinger.

...or maybe not.

Gander13SM
07-22-2015, 01:26 PM
Lebron won the Guy You Secretly Wished Was On Your Team award? "Secretly?" Really?

Some of the names of the awards sound like an 11 year old came up with them. Which is probably an accurate representation of an nba stars mentality and intelligence.

Tony_Starks
07-22-2015, 02:07 PM
Lebron won the Guy You Secretly Wished Was On Your Team award? "Secretly?" Really?

Some of the names of the awards sound like an 11 year old came up with them. Which is probably an accurate representation of an nba stars mentality and intelligence.

Who are we kidding, if they couldn't put a ball in the hoop they'd probably be holding up liquor stores or on welfare, right?

We'll see where they are years from now when their skills are gone and they've squandered all their money on "bling."

Probably greeters at Walmart....

rhino17
07-22-2015, 02:20 PM
The modern day sports writer requires absolutely no intelligence. There are only a handful in the entire country that are even competent writers, even less that actually even know what they are talking about. Saying the players are dumb compared to them is laughable.

YAALREADYKNO
07-22-2015, 02:22 PM
I didn't watch & tbh I didn't even know it exsisted.

I did hear this morning that Chris Paul made fun of Dirk? Like wtf have you ever done in the NBA compared to Dirk lmao

What'd he say?

mngopher35
07-22-2015, 03:41 PM
It doesn't look like they had tons of awards for players, is that right?

I would probably change Defensive player award (Green/Khawi in disucussion) and Pierce most clutch over Curry. Others seem pretty good to me.

RLundi
07-22-2015, 03:52 PM
Who are we kidding, if they couldn't put a ball in the hoop they'd probably be holding up liquor stores or on welfare, right?

We'll see where they are years from now when their skills are gone and they've squandered all their money on "bling."

Probably greeters at Walmart....

Don't make this a race thing, you're going to sound incredibly stupid doing that. The consensus is that many ATHLETES, black or other are skilled in their athletics and as a result have focused primarily on that the majority of their lives instead of something a little bit more, shall we say, scholastic. Sounds reasonable.

A fact is that analysts are paid to ANALYZE, which includes exhaustive research, use of statistics, real journalism and an understanding of the science behind basketball. Don't be naive. Everything has a science and metrics and calculations behind it. You think the players are the least bit interested in anything other than the simple on-court product? No. 40 points is 40 points, even if it takes 40 shots to get it. So you trusting the opinions and judgments of players paid to PERFORM the game over analysts paid to understand all facets of the game is beyond me.

Gander13SM
07-22-2015, 04:03 PM
I think there's an argument to be made for LeBron, KD and Davis being the most difficult to guard (over Steph). I have no issue with Steph winning it though. He's automatic top 5 purely because he's the only guy in the league you need to pick up defensively when he's 35ft from the basket.

I think best defensive player should be split into best perimeter defender and best interior defender or rim protector. Just because.

DJ shouldn't have gotten it. He has good reflexes, is freakishly atheltic and has a nose for the ball. But his footwork in the post and rotations in general leave a lot to be desired. Among other things.

I would have had Green, Kawhi or Duncan to be honest. Maybe Middleton at a push.

I think these awards will never catch on. Just a fad. And I feel like players egos will inevitably get in the way. I highly doubt Draymond voted LeBron as MVP or LeBron voted him as DPOY. I highly doubt Kobe voted for anyone for anything. Melo probably voted for himself. Players never admit to guys who are better than them actually being better. They always give props to guys they don't view as a threat. IMO. I mean not all players but most.

If the MVP had been voted on by players throughout history I'm telling you this: Jordan would never have won any.

Gander13SM
07-22-2015, 04:05 PM
Don't make this a race thing, you're going to sound incredibly stupid doing that. The consensus is that many ATHLETES, black or other are skilled in their athletics and as a result have focused primarily on that the majority of their lives instead of something a little bit more, shall we say, scholastic. Sounds reasonable.

A fact is that analysts are paid to ANALYZE, which includes exhaustive research, use of statistics, real journalism and an understanding of the science behind basketball. Don't be naive. Everything has a science and metrics and calculations behind it. You think the players are the least bit interested in anything other than the simple on-court product? No. 40 points is 40 points, even if it takes 40 shots to get it. So you trusting the opinions and judgments of players paid to PERFORM the game over analysts paid to understand all facets of the game is beyond me.

Agreed with everything said in this post.

Hawkeye15
07-22-2015, 04:07 PM
To be fair. MJ has gotten smart enough to let the nerds run his team more than he used to.

I can't imagine how crushed his huge level of pride was when he finally realized even as the GOAT, he had no idea how to evaluate talent or run a team.

Don't people realize how seriously non-intelligent most NBA/NFL players are? Why we care about what their opinions are is beyond me.

Tony_Starks
07-22-2015, 04:28 PM
Who are we kidding, if they couldn't put a ball in the hoop they'd probably be holding up liquor stores or on welfare, right?

We'll see where they are years from now when their skills are gone and they've squandered all their money on "bling."

Probably greeters at Walmart....

Don't make this a race thing, you're going to sound incredibly stupid doing that. The consensus is that many ATHLETES, black or other are skilled in their athletics and as a result have focused primarily on that the majority of their lives instead of something a little bit more, shall we say, scholastic. Sounds reasonable.

A fact is that analysts are paid to ANALYZE, which includes exhaustive research, use of statistics, real journalism and an understanding of the science behind basketball. Don't be naive. Everything has a science and metrics and calculations behind it. You think the players are the least bit interested in anything other than the simple on-court product? No. 40 points is 40 points, even if it takes 40 shots to get it. So you trusting the opinions and judgments of players paid to PERFORM the game over analysts paid to understand all facets of the game is beyond me.

If you seriously are under the impression that a analyst with his host of metrics,stats, "journalistic" skill, and research can tell you something as simple as who is the most difficult to guard better than the person that actually has the task of doing it I suggest you stop watching basketball and just review stat sheets.

That's equivalent to telling me what steak taste the best based off the percentage of particular ingredients used, and a whole laundry list of other variants as opposed to listening to the guy that actually tasted it.

I hate to break it to some of you fellows but as much as you may want it to be basketball is not rocket science. The players, as "unintelligent" as they may be, are more than capable of saying who is skilled and who isn't.

Sorry.

Gander13SM
07-22-2015, 04:34 PM
If you seriously are under the impression that a analyst with his host of metrics,stats, "journalistic" skill, and research can tell you something as simple as who is the most difficult to guard better than the person that actually has the task of doing it I suggest you stop watching basketball and just review stat sheets.

That's equivalent to telling me what steak taste the best based off the percentage of particular ingredients used, and a whole laundry list of other variants as opposed to listening to the guy that actually tasted it.

I hate to break it to some of you fellows but as much as you may want it to be basketball is not rocket science. The players, as "unintelligent" as they may be, are more than capable of saying who is skilled and who isn't.

Sorry.

They are? So you would take Perkins or J.R Smiths opinion over a respected analyst or former scout turned journalist?

Gander13SM
07-22-2015, 04:39 PM
Gary Payton said Stockton was harder to guard than Jordan.

Cooper said Bird was tougher to guard than Jordan.

McGrady said Kobe was harder to guard than Jordan.

Dumars said the two toughest players to guard were Jordan and Reggie Lewis.

Iverson said the toughest player to guard during his career was Baron Davis.

Paul Pierce said Melo is the toughest player to guard.

Pippen said LeBron is better than Jordan and would beat him one on one.


You agree with all of these?

Saddletramp
07-22-2015, 04:45 PM
You guys are making this sound like these players are GMing or giving the final evaluation to the top players on sonething other than just some players association/BET show.


"Hey, Kyle Singler, who do you think is MVP? The most clutch shooter? The guy who you'd most want on your team? The best defensive player?.............."

"Hey, Avery Bradley, who do you think is MVP? The most clutch shooter? The guy who you'd most want on your team? The best defensive player?............."

"Hey, Al Horford, who do you think is MVP? The most clutch shooter? The guy who you'd most want on your team? The best defensive player?.............."




Etc.

TrueFan420
07-22-2015, 04:46 PM
yikes, you agree with what the pros say? Most couldn't pass alegbra. But they play, right? How did that work out of Jordan? Who are the best GM's in the game? Ex players?

While I agree with you... Jerry West is one hell of a talent evaluator/GM

Gander13SM
07-22-2015, 05:01 PM
While I agree with you... Jerry West is one hell of a talent evaluator/GM

Very true.

And there's a lot of players turned coaches who are excellent... Most were role players though. Not stars. Which is interesting.

Bird has done pretty well with Indiana.

RLundi
07-22-2015, 07:04 PM
If you seriously are under the impression that a analyst with his host of metrics,stats, "journalistic" skill, and research can tell you something as simple as who is the most difficult to guard better than the person that actually has the task of doing it I suggest you stop watching basketball and just review stat sheets.

That's equivalent to telling me what steak taste the best based off the percentage of particular ingredients used, and a whole laundry list of other variants as opposed to listening to the guy that actually tasted it.

I hate to break it to some of you fellows but as much as you may want it to be basketball is not rocket science. The players, as "unintelligent" as they may be, are more than capable of saying who is skilled and who isn't.

Sorry.

No, the players can have their awards. The night in question tells you all you need to know about how seriously anyone takes players' opinions: no one showed up to the ceremony, save for 2 Chainz and a half-drunk Iverson. LBJ didn't bother attending, Curry strolled in 3 hours late, and most NBA players skipped the marquee event. It isn't newsworthy; I'd venture most NBA fans didn't even know it happened.

I'm just saying, Durant saying the media doesn't know **** is wrong. I'm sorry, but I'm going to trust people with degrees on evaluation and not players doing the actual playing. As far as on-the-court awards, like I said, I have no problem with them. But never should these player-voted awards replace the REAL awards, and I'd hedge my bet they never will in the eyes of the public.

WaDe03
07-22-2015, 07:18 PM
If you seriously are under the impression that a analyst with his host of metrics,stats, "journalistic" skill, and research can tell you something as simple as who is the most difficult to guard better than the person that actually has the task of doing it I suggest you stop watching basketball and just review stat sheets.

That's equivalent to telling me what steak taste the best based off the percentage of particular ingredients used, and a whole laundry list of other variants as opposed to listening to the guy that actually tasted it.

I hate to break it to some of you fellows but as much as you may want it to be basketball is not rocket science. The players, as "unintelligent" as they may be, are more than capable of saying who is skilled and who isn't.

Sorry.

Great post! It baffles me that people on here actually think they know so much more than the players and talk down on the players lol. We're a bunch of dudes posting on an Internet forum while the players are actually playing the game and making millions doing so. Whether the players are dumb or not (a lot of them are probably way smarter than you think) they have to be smart when they're on the court or they won't last. People think they can just throw out all these numbers all the time and claim they're so smart but as you said the players actually play against each other. The players know who is actually hard to guard and who isn't and who they may match up well against. A lot of players in the league also study a lot of the players percentages and tendencies and all that so they're getting the experience as well as the stats.

The Jordan thing is pretty dumb too in my opinion. He may not be a great GM but I guarantee when he was actually playing in the league he could tell more about the players he was playing against than any of us could. When you draft someone you're pretty much taking a gamble sort of like what the lakers did by drafting Russell over Okafor. If somehow Kelly Oubre ended up being better than Justise Winslow and Winslow ended up being a bust does that make Pat Riley a terrible GM? Is Pat Riley a terrible GM for drafting Beasley over Westbrook, Kevin Love, or Brook Lopez? No, no one knows how the players will turn out once they get in the league. If the people in this forum are really as smart as they claim to be why aren't they making millions associated with an NBA team?

Tony_Starks
07-22-2015, 07:24 PM
Gary Payton said Stockton was harder to guard than Jordan.

Cooper said Bird was tougher to guard than Jordan.

McGrady said Kobe was harder to guard than Jordan.

Dumars said the two toughest players to guard were Jordan and Reggie Lewis.

Iverson said the toughest player to guard during his career was Baron Davis.

Paul Pierce said Melo is the toughest player to guard.

Pippen said LeBron is better than Jordan and would beat him one on one.


You agree with all of these?


Bigger question: who are you or any guy on the couch to tell someone that actually defended these guys who was tougher to guard?

That is so absurd its almost laughable.

ewing
07-22-2015, 07:49 PM
No

ewing
07-22-2015, 07:50 PM
Don't make this a race thing, you're going to sound incredibly stupid doing that. The consensus is that many ATHLETES, black or other are skilled in their athletics and as a result have focused primarily on that the majority of their lives instead of something a little bit more, shall we say, scholastic. Sounds reasonable.

A fact is that analysts are paid to ANALYZE, which includes exhaustive research, use of statistics, real journalism and an understanding of the science behind basketball. Don't be naive. Everything has a science and metrics and calculations behind it. You think the players are the least bit interested in anything other than the simple on-court product? No. 40 points is 40 points, even if it takes 40 shots to get it. So you trusting the opinions and judgments of players paid to PERFORM the game over analysts paid to understand all facets of the game is beyond me.

Science :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

ewing
07-22-2015, 07:52 PM
She Blinded me with Science!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

numba1CHANGsta
07-22-2015, 07:54 PM
What's BET?

ewing
07-22-2015, 07:56 PM
I can't imagine how crushed his huge level of pride was when he finally realized even as the GOAT, he had no idea how to evaluate talent or run a team.

Don't people realize how seriously non-intelligent most NBA/NFL players are? Why we care about what their opinions are is beyond me.



Well of course you have to put in work. MJ was playing golf and drinking whiskey and thought just b/c he was mike he could do a good job with putting in the work. A lot of players don't even really like watching sports. Its not about how many degrees you have though

RLundi
07-22-2015, 09:48 PM
Science :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Must be your first time hearing the word. It's a funny-sounding word, I don't disagree.

Tony_Starks
07-22-2015, 10:22 PM
David Kahn had multiple degrees and is what a lot of you guys would consider a intelligent man. He actually talked the same way a lot of the stat guys on here talk, had tangible numbers and logic to back up every decision he made.

AND well...

blahblahyoutoo
07-22-2015, 11:18 PM
uhm, you're the one that brought race into it, not him.


Don't make this a race thing, you're going to sound incredibly stupid doing that. The consensus is that many ATHLETES, black or other are skilled in their athletics and as a result have focused primarily on that the majority of their lives instead of something a little bit more, shall we say, scholastic. Sounds reasonable.

A fact is that analysts are paid to ANALYZE, which includes exhaustive research, use of statistics, real journalism and an understanding of the science behind basketball. Don't be naive. Everything has a science and metrics and calculations behind it. You think the players are the least bit interested in anything other than the simple on-court product? No. 40 points is 40 points, even if it takes 40 shots to get it. So you trusting the opinions and judgments of players paid to PERFORM the game over analysts paid to understand all facets of the game is beyond me.

Chronz
07-23-2015, 12:31 AM
David Kahn had multiple degrees and is what a lot of you guys would consider a intelligent man. He actually talked the same way a lot of the stat guys on here talk, had tangible numbers and logic to back up every decision he made.

AND well...

Actually no he didn't. He ignored them and made a fool of himself with every decision and remark. Notice how the players aren't running teams anymore that they would give a journalist a try before them.

Tony_Starks
07-23-2015, 12:34 AM
uhm, you're the one that brought race into it, not him.


Don't make this a race thing, you're going to sound incredibly stupid doing that. The consensus is that many ATHLETES, black or other are skilled in their athletics and as a result have focused primarily on that the majority of their lives instead of something a little bit more, shall we say, scholastic. Sounds reasonable.

A fact is that analysts are paid to ANALYZE, which includes exhaustive research, use of statistics, real journalism and an understanding of the science behind basketball. Don't be naive. Everything has a science and metrics and calculations behind it. You think the players are the least bit interested in anything other than the simple on-court product? No. 40 points is 40 points, even if it takes 40 shots to get it. So you trusting the opinions and judgments of players paid to PERFORM the game over analysts paid to understand all facets of the game is beyond me.

I'm glad somebody else caught how he tried to clean that up.

He originally said that NBA players have the "intelligence and mentality of a 11 year old."

The vast majority of which happen to be black BTW, but we're the stupid ones for connecting the dots....

Chronz
07-23-2015, 12:38 AM
You guys are making this sound like these players are GMing or giving the final evaluation to the top players on sonething other than just some players association/BET show.


"Hey, Kyle Singler, who do you think is MVP? The most clutch shooter? The guy who you'd most want on your team? The best defensive player?.............."

"Hey, Avery Bradley, who do you think is MVP? The most clutch shooter? The guy who you'd most want on your team? The best defensive player?............."

"Hey, Al Horford, who do you think is MVP? The most clutch shooter? The guy who you'd most want on your team? The best defensive player?.............."




Etc.
Agreed. Much like the many popularity awards we already have but with a smaller sample of analysis. Basically it's Just a gut decision. Which is neat but not worth much. I'll stick to methodology/ train of thought that the guys Actually running the nba rely on. Which Is to gather all info. If you're n either end of the extreme you're wrong. I just laugh at the appealing to authority fallacy these kids spew

Chronz
07-23-2015, 12:43 AM
Who are we kidding, if they couldn't put a ball in the hoop they'd probably be holding up liquor stores or on welfare, right?

We'll see where they are years from now when their skills are gone and they've squandered all their money on "bling."

Probably greeters at Walmart....
Whyu so extreme? And forgive M e if I'm wrong but don't they go broke once their "expertise" expires? Meanwhile the egg heads continue running the actual teams ?

Chronz
07-23-2015, 01:17 AM
So the majority here feel that the word of the window washer outside the building watching the meeting is more valuable then the people who are actually having the meeting? How fitting for this site. LOL

Aren't you a rox fan? Quick morey or ANY nba player running your team?

Gander13SM
07-23-2015, 02:25 AM
Bigger question: who are you or any guy on the couch to tell someone that actually defended these guys who was tougher to guard?

That is so absurd its almost laughable.

So you do think Stockton, Bird and Reggie Lewis were tougher to guard than Jordan? You agree that Melo is the toughest player to guard in the modern era? You agree LeBron is better than Jordan? And you agree Baron Davis was the best offensive player of his time? (Most difficult to guard).

Just checking.

You would take Charles Barkleys opinion on evaluating a current player over John Hollinger or Popovich?

Just checking.

I find it funny. The MAJORITY of nba players are broke after 6 years of retirement. If they're so knowledgable about the sport why aren't they all employed as scouts, coaches, managers and analysts?

Just because you can play doesn't mean you're capable of evaluating the talent of others. Guys who spend their entire life studying the game and evaluating players are going to get pretty damn good at it. It's their job. They have to be. If nba players were better at it then they would be the ones getting those jobs. This is pretty simple logic here.

The fact that people think you need to play the game professionally to understand it is so absurd its almost laughable.

RLundi
07-23-2015, 11:16 AM
I'm glad somebody else caught how he tried to clean that up.

He originally said that NBA players have the "intelligence and mentality of a 11 year old."

The vast majority of which happen to be black BTW, but we're the stupid ones for connecting the dots....

Who the **** said that? It wasn't me. Don't try and bull**** me and put ****ing words in my mouth. You made this a race issue, you know damn well you did. Whether or not you admit it is completely up to you, but don't make **** up.

RLundi
07-23-2015, 11:22 AM
uhm, you're the one that brought race into it, not him.

Umm did you read the thread? You're as clueless as he is a backtracking liar. He mentioned Archie Bunker-type thinking, a noted racist. And then he said sarcastically that NBA players would be on welfare or robbing liquor stores if they weren't playing ball. That doesn't sound like race is being brought into the equation to you? If not, then idk what to tell you, except learn some inference skills.

Gander13SM
07-23-2015, 12:31 PM
Who the **** said that? It wasn't me. Don't try and bull**** me and put ****ing words in my mouth. You made this a race issue, you know damn well you did. Whether or not you admit it is completely up to you, but don't make **** up.

He's confused. I said that the name of the awards sounded like something an 11 year old would come out with which is a reflection of MOST players maturity levels and probably intelligence.

But I would say that about the majority of athletes. Black, white, yellow, brown I don't give a ****. The majority of athletes dedicated their life to the game and that's why they're so great at it. But for a lot of them that means sacrificing other areas of education etc. It's nothing to do with race. He made that connection in his head, which is a reflection of his tendencies not mines. If he made a connection between intellect and race those are his issues and he needs to address them himself. That wasn't my intention to imply anything like that and I sure as hell don't believe it.

I also like the assumption that I'm white... or a self hating black man. Or a man even. People making all sorts of assumptions on the Internet. This is only reflecting poorly on himself IMHO.

But I'm not interested in some sort of bait or flaming. So I'm going to apologise now if anyone was offended by my post. I wasn't implying black people or white people or any specific race was stupid. I was simply saying a lot of athletes take a hit in other areas of education due to dedicating so much time to their game. This isn't a knock on them it's just an observation. Yes I was probably insulting them but it was intended to be light hearted ribbing. Taking the piss. Nothing more.

Saddletramp
07-23-2015, 07:55 PM
Umm did you read the thread? You're as clueless as he is a backtracking liar. He mentioned Archie Bunker-type thinking, a noted racist. And then he said sarcastically that NBA players would be on welfare or robbing liquor stores if they weren't playing ball. That doesn't sound like race is being brought into the equation to you? If not, then idk what to tell you, except learn some inference skills.


I'm not a Tony Stark apologist in any sort of way but he brought up Archie Bunker due to what Hawkeye said. I don't think Stark was being racist in any way and was basically sarcastically trolling the "athletes are stupid" think that some have presented.

blahblahyoutoo
07-23-2015, 08:29 PM
Umm did you read the thread? You're as clueless as he is a backtracking liar. He mentioned Archie Bunker-type thinking, a noted racist. And then he said sarcastically that NBA players would be on welfare or robbing liquor stores if they weren't playing ball. That doesn't sound like race is being brought into the equation to you? If not, then idk what to tell you, except learn some inference skills.

did you learn your mind reading skills from ms cleo?

Tony_Starks
07-23-2015, 10:13 PM
I'm glad somebody else caught how he tried to clean that up.

He originally said that NBA players have the "intelligence and mentality of a 11 year old."

The vast majority of which happen to be black BTW, but we're the stupid ones for connecting the dots....

Who the **** said that? It wasn't me. Don't try and bull**** me and put ****ing words in my mouth. You made this a race issue, you know damn well you did. Whether or not you admit it is completely up to you, but don't make **** up.

First off I meant the other guy said that. Sorry.

Second off calm down, have some tea, and read through the thread in order for clarity.

I was merely responding to the growing sentiment that the majority of NBA players are basically unintelligent children who as my boy Hawk said "probably can't even do Algebra." According to many here they are basically big dumb jocks that leave the thinking to the smart guys with degrees. And yes the majority of the league is black. That's not my paranoid assumption, that's a fact. Forgive me if I find the notion that a league majority black is full of mindless idiots slightly offensive,I'm weird that way.

It's insulting, condescending, and wrong.

Period.

Gander13SM
07-24-2015, 05:19 AM
First off I meant the other guy said that. Sorry.

Second off calm down, have some tea, and read through the thread in order for clarity.

I was merely responding to the growing sentiment that the majority of NBA players are basically unintelligent children who as my boy Hawk said "probably can't even do Algebra." According to many here they are basically big dumb jocks that leave the thinking to the smart guys with degrees. And yes the majority of the league is black. That's not my paranoid assumption, that's a fact. Forgive me if I find the notion that a league majority black is full of mindless idiots slightly offensive,I'm weird that way.

It's insulting, condescending, and wrong.

Period.

Lmao. Okay buddy. Whatever you say.

1. I would say the majority of pro athletes are of below average intelligence. White, black, whatever.

2. You made the race connection in your head. Nobody else did. Including myself. So you're the one with the issues buddy. Keep your racist thoughts to yourself.

RLundi
07-24-2015, 07:51 AM
did you learn your mind reading skills from ms cleo?

1. Please refrain from using 90s jokes/references.

2. Read the comment below from Tony Starks in which he essentially admits the basic premise for what he said was race-motivated.

3. Desperately learn how to hone your reading comprehension, inference, and reasoning skills. They are embarrassingly lacking.


I was merely responding to the growing sentiment that the majority of NBA players are basically unintelligent children who as my boy Hawk said "probably can't even do Algebra." According to many here they are basically big dumb jocks that leave the thinking to the smart guys with degrees. And yes the majority of the league is black. That's not my paranoid assumption, that's a fact. Forgive me if I find the notion that a league majority black is full of mindless idiots slightly offensive,I'm weird that way.

It's insulting, condescending, and wrong.

Period.

RLundi
07-24-2015, 07:57 AM
First off I meant the other guy said that. Sorry.

Second off calm down, have some tea, and read through the thread in order for clarity.

I was merely responding to the growing sentiment that the majority of NBA players are basically unintelligent children who as my boy Hawk said "probably can't even do Algebra." According to many here they are basically big dumb jocks that leave the thinking to the smart guys with degrees. And yes the majority of the league is black. That's not my paranoid assumption, that's a fact. Forgive me if I find the notion that a league majority black is full of mindless idiots slightly offensive,I'm weird that way.

It's insulting, condescending, and wrong.

Period.

Fair enough.

Baseball guys are dumb too, as are the toothless Neanderthals that play hockey. I truthfully don't think color plays a significant role in that. Maybe to a certain degree though, I don't want to be naive. But athletes in general are viewed as intellectually subpar to the public, that's just how it is. That's not necessarily what I think but that's what I feel the consensus is. I personally don't think that every NBA player or athlete in pro sports is an idiot, but I'd rather trust people that haven't spent most of their adult lives honing their athletic skill in favor of their intellectual skills. That's just me.

Tony_Starks
07-24-2015, 10:00 AM
First off I meant the other guy said that. Sorry.

Second off calm down, have some tea, and read through the thread in order for clarity.

I was merely responding to the growing sentiment that the majority of NBA players are basically unintelligent children who as my boy Hawk said "probably can't even do Algebra." According to many here they are basically big dumb jocks that leave the thinking to the smart guys with degrees. And yes the majority of the league is black. That's not my paranoid assumption, that's a fact. Forgive me if I find the notion that a league majority black is full of mindless idiots slightly offensive,I'm weird that way.

It's insulting, condescending, and wrong.

Period.

Fair enough.

Baseball guys are dumb too, as are the toothless Neanderthals that play hockey. I truthfully don't think color plays a significant role in that. Maybe to a certain degree though, I don't want to be naive. But athletes in general are viewed as intellectually subpar to the public, that's just how it is. That's not necessarily what I think but that's what I feel the consensus is. I personally don't think that every NBA player or athlete in pro sports is an idiot, but I'd rather trust people that haven't spent most of their adult lives honing their athletic skill in favor of their intellectual skills. That's just me.


I got you. My antenna just goes up because I rarely see the things said about NBA players said about players in any other sport, such as being "thugs" etc.

And I can be real about it, the fact that a lot of these dudes look like they just busted out of Rikers probably doesn't' exactly help their public perception.

But that's a different topic for another day.

Hawkeye15
07-24-2015, 10:16 AM
If you seriously are under the impression that a analyst with his host of metrics,stats, "journalistic" skill, and research can tell you something as simple as who is the most difficult to guard better than the person that actually has the task of doing it I suggest you stop watching basketball and just review stat sheets.

That's equivalent to telling me what steak taste the best based off the percentage of particular ingredients used, and a whole laundry list of other variants as opposed to listening to the guy that actually tasted it.

I hate to break it to some of you fellows but as much as you may want it to be basketball is not rocket science. The players, as "unintelligent" as they may be, are more than capable of saying who is skilled and who isn't.

Sorry.

But every player has different weaknesses. Just because player A has problems guarding a certain player, doesn't mean player B, C, or D do. That is why analyzing works better, it takes EVERYONE into account, not just one biased, personal opinion.

Basketball is not rocket science. It's easy. Just because a scout and analyst isn't guarding James Harden 4 times a year doesn't mean they don't know the best way to guard him is. In fact, many times, they know better than the players. When the players are working out, sleeping, eating right, those "nerds" are watching video, and crunching data. There is a reason Shane Battier was such a great defender. He knew the analytics as well as played against them. Dennis Rodman said he used to watch a ton of tape, and knew which direction the leagues shooters missed at a higher percentage, and would position himself in that spot.

Hawkeye15
07-24-2015, 10:19 AM
David Kahn had multiple degrees and is what a lot of you guys would consider a intelligent man. He actually talked the same way a lot of the stat guys on here talk, had tangible numbers and logic to back up every decision he made.

AND well...

No, he didn't. Nothing he ever said regarding basketball made any sense. In fact, he ignored the numbers right in front of his face, and made picks that made zero sense. I applauded his first 18 months, only because he was able to trade away trash contracts for young players (that never panned out, but hey). He ****ed up every draft he touched. Every decision he made was wrong. And most of them were obvious to anyone.

Hawkeye15
07-24-2015, 10:23 AM
While I agree with you... Jerry West is one hell of a talent evaluator/GM

oh there are exceptions for sure. I just mean the norm, most of the great GM's have not been players. West, Riley, Bird, there are exceptions no doubt.

And many ex-players become good coaches. Funny enough, not the stars, but instead those role player IQ guys. Again, some exceptions (Bird again haha, and more).

Hawkeye15
07-24-2015, 10:28 AM
I got you. My antenna just goes up because I rarely see the things said about NBA players said about players in any other sport, such as being "thugs" etc.

And I can be real about it, the fact that a lot of these dudes look like they just busted out of Rikers probably doesn't' exactly help their public perception.

But that's a different topic for another day.

NBA/NFL players go bankrupt at a ridiculous rate compared to other professional sports. NHL/Nascar/MLB/MLS/etc do not. NBA/NFL players get in legal trouble at a much higher rate than any other sport. It's not because of color necessarily, it's because those athletes typically come from urban areas (where our education system is basically non-existant), where the sport is easy to play due to facilities/cost to play.

No other pro sport has 18-19 year olds being given millions a year. That in itself is a recipe for disaster.

These 2 sports, and their athletes, get labeled as not very intelligent because of their historic decisions, not because of their race, background, or anything else.

TrueFan420
07-24-2015, 01:17 PM
oh there are exceptions for sure. I just mean the norm, most of the great GM's have not been players. West, Riley, Bird, there are exceptions no doubt.

And many ex-players become good coaches. Funny enough, not the stars, but instead those role player IQ guys. Again, some exceptions (Bird again haha, and more).
Of course just had to bring up west tho for all he's done for my franchise. He's been a key price to the Warriors front office and helped this team turn the corner.

As for the role players vs star player to good coaches... It's probably because they have less ego and don't expect that everyone should be able to do what they do. They recognize the limitations of the talent surrounding their team. They understand that things must be taught.

Hawkeye15
07-24-2015, 02:09 PM
As for the role players vs star player to good coaches... It's probably because they have less ego and don't expect that everyone should be able to do what they do. They recognize the limitations of the talent surrounding their team. They understand that things must be taught.


Oh I totally agree.