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FriedTofuz
07-18-2015, 01:51 AM
Im going to go with Stanley johnson. No one has been as impressive as this guy, he's playing insanely well. Honestly, I thought Passing up Winslow was a huge mistake but the Pistons seem to know what they're doing.

Kyben36
07-18-2015, 02:12 AM
its going to be hard to beat the guards, i dont think that Towns is a dominate force year one, he will be good, just not great and average good stats.

Im going with Mudiay myself, i think he gets a huge chance in denver, with alot of guys around him to make it pretty easy for him.

2nd choice would be Russell, I just dont think he takes that team over right away.

but honesly, nobody will probably beat out Okafor if healthy, he will have full command of that team.

FYL_McVeezy
07-18-2015, 02:16 AM
Okafor

LAKERS4LIFE!!
07-18-2015, 04:08 AM
Sixers are so bad so easily Okafor.

Alayla
07-18-2015, 04:36 AM
Sixers are so bad so easily Okafor.

How much better are the Lakers lol..

Clippersfan86
07-18-2015, 10:33 AM
Porzingis.

nickdymez
07-18-2015, 10:45 AM
How much better are the Lakers lol..
You don't think the Lakers are much better than the sixers?


My choice is super Mario

ManningToTyree
07-18-2015, 10:48 AM
Okafor

FYL_McVeezy
07-18-2015, 10:48 AM
Porzingis.

Nah he's not gonna get a lot of burn and is still raw....Okafor will get plenty of minutes/touches and is way more polished at this point...

xxplayerxx23
07-18-2015, 10:56 AM
Oakfor pretty easy. Wouldn't be surprised if he puts in 20/8 on that team lol

Tony_Starks
07-18-2015, 11:03 AM
May very well be Mudiay.....much to the chagrin of Knick fans.

LongIslandIcedZ
07-18-2015, 11:11 AM
I'd love for it to be Porzingis or Grant. But if I had money on it, I'm picking Okafor.

He'll be option one on that team, and I think his offensive and rebounding numbers will offset his defensive deficiencies

KnicksorBust
07-18-2015, 11:21 AM
I hate to go chalk but it seems pretty clear that Okafor and Towns are going to start from day 1 and opportunity + talent = success

Sleeper = Mudiay
Deep sleeper = Rozier

Clippersfan86
07-18-2015, 11:24 AM
Nah he's not gonna get a lot of burn and is still raw....Okafor will get plenty of minutes/touches and is way more polished at this point...

If Fisher doesn't play him, he should be fired. Gotta throw him into the fire and let him adapt.

Clippersfan86
07-18-2015, 11:27 AM
Lol at Okafor averaging 20 ppg his rookie year. No ****ing way, no matter which team. Very few rookies do that. Pretty sure last 20 ppg rookie was Blake Griffin in 2011. Rookie Durant barely hit it. People are nuts if they think Okafor has that all time great type game.

FYL_McVeezy
07-18-2015, 11:37 AM
If Fisher doesn't play him, he should be fired. Gotta throw him into the fire and let him adapt.

20-25 minutes off the bench is not the same as Okafor, Towns, and Russell who will start from day 1.....

20-25 minutes off the bench would be probably be best for him to start his rookie season....if he excels in that role maybe he becomes a starter by seasons end...

dalton749
07-18-2015, 11:45 AM
Lol at Okafor averaging 20 ppg his rookie year. No ****ing way, no matter which team. Very few rookies do that. Pretty sure last 20 ppg rookie was Blake Griffin in 2011. Rookie Durant barely hit it. People are nuts if they think Okafor has that all time great type game.
Nobody said it would be a good 20 points. Teams will absolutely **** on philly but he will get at least 15 shots a game

Cal827
07-18-2015, 11:49 AM
Lol at Okafor averaging 20 ppg his rookie year. No ****ing way, no matter which team. Very few rookies do that. Pretty sure last 20 ppg rookie was Blake Griffin in 2011. Rookie Durant barely hit it. People are nuts if they think Okafor has that all time great type game.

:laugh2: Who on that 76ers team can score? I wouldn't be shocked if on terrible numbers, but I can see him getting 20+ ppg.

xbrackattackx
07-18-2015, 11:50 AM
Lol at Okafor averaging 20 ppg his rookie year. No ****ing way, no matter which team. Very few rookies do that. Pretty sure last 20 ppg rookie was Blake Griffin in 2011. Rookie Durant barely hit it. People are nuts if they think Okafor has that all time great type game.

To be fair, Blake did have a year to at least learn the NBA level workout. And he got to work two summers before his real rookie year. Look at Blakes summer training before his first real year. Dude was working out in a sandbox to get better hops. Griffin has a work ethic like woah. But he did get a little more eased into it.

Clippersfan86
07-18-2015, 12:10 PM
Nobody said it would be a good 20 points. Teams will absolutely **** on philly but he will get at least 15 shots a game

Pretty sure 2 people on last page said 20 ppg, unless my mind was playing tricks.

Cal827
07-18-2015, 12:12 PM
Pretty sure 2 people on last page said 20 ppg, unless my mind was playing tricks.

They did. Doesn't mean it's going to be a good 20 points though, as Dalton was implying. Like 20 points on 25 shots or something like that lol

Clippersfan86
07-18-2015, 12:13 PM
To be fair, Blake did have a year to at least learn the NBA level workout. And he got to work two summers before his real rookie year. Look at Blakes summer training before his first real year. Dude was working out in a sandbox to get better hops. Griffin has a work ethic like woah. But he did get a little more eased into it.

Yes, this is a good point. But it doesn't detract away from the fact that few rookies put up 20 ppg. Durant for example, the best pure scorer in our league averaged 20.3 ppg as a rookie. Okafor will get lots of touches, but doesn't mean he's going to score 20 against NBA level defense. Maybe if he takes 20 shots, but I doubt that will happen.

Clippersfan86
07-18-2015, 12:15 PM
They did. Doesn't mean it's going to be a good 20 points though, as Dalton was implying. Like 20 points on 25 shots or something like that lol

Most quality NBA players could score that if given 25 shots. If this were the 90's where teams pounded the ball to the post I'd believe it... but this is a perimeter based game right now. I don't trust any Sixers guards to find him that efficiently to even get to 20+ shots every night. If he had CP3 or Curry to feed him I'd buy it.

nycericanguy
07-18-2015, 12:28 PM
:laugh2: Who on that 76ers team can score? I wouldn't be shocked if on terrible numbers, but I can see him getting 20+ ppg.

agree, we already saw him putting up a TON of shots in SL. They were clearly making him the focal point. Is there any PHI player on the roster that even averaged 10ppg last year?...lol. Okafor will get 15+ shots per game. i think he'll average around 18ppg though, not sure he's in good enough shape to play more than 28-30mpg.

Towns will have to compete with Wiggins, Lavine, Pek, Martin...for shots.

Russell has Kobe & Clarkson, Young...

Okafor should be the clear favorite.

Mudiay I think has a good chance because DEN will run and he will get plenty of chances there.

Clippersfan86
07-18-2015, 12:34 PM
agree, we already saw him putting up a TON of shots in SL. They were clearly making him the focal point. Is there any PHI player on the roster that even averaged 10ppg last year?...lol. Okafor will get 15+ shots per game.

Towns will have to compete with Wiggins, Lavine, Pek, Martin...for shots.

Russell has Kobe & Clarkson, Young...

Okafor should be the clear favorite.

Mudiay I think has a good chance because DEN will run and he will get plenty of chances there.

Its not opportunity alone though.

1. Much more physical NBA defenses. His game is NBA ready, his body not so much.

2. Who's going to get him the ball in the right spots?

TheNumber37
07-18-2015, 12:37 PM
Okafor. He will average 19 and 8 his first seASON.

Rookie First team:
Russell/ J. Grant
Mudiay/ Cameron Payne
S. Johnson/ J. Winslow
M. Turner/ Prozingiz
Okafor/WCS

nycericanguy
07-18-2015, 12:40 PM
Its not opportunity alone though.

1. Much more physical NBA defenses. His game is NBA ready, his body not so much.

2. Who's going to get him the ball in the right spots?

I think you're overthinking things... he might not have great stamina right now but that should improve and even in 28-30mpg he will still get plenty of chances.

Right spots? It's not that hard to drop the ball into the post, Okafor can create his own shot from even 12-15 feet out because he has really good handle and foot work for a big.

He might not average 20 but he'll def a ton of shots and chances. PER 36 I'm confident he'll score 20ppg, just a matter of how many minutes he plays.

Clippersfan86
07-18-2015, 12:43 PM
I think you're overthinking things... he might not have great stamina right now but that should improve and even in 28-30mpg he will still get plenty of chances.

Right spots? It's not that hard to drop the ball into the post, Okafor can create his own shot from even 12-15 feet out because he has really good handle and foot work for a big.

He might not average 20 but he'll def a ton of shots and chances. PER 36 I'm confident he'll score 20ppg, just a matter of how many minutes he plays.

Actually it IS hard to find guys at the post at the NBA level. Trust me last year when CP3 went down, Darren Collison an above average player... had trouble finding Blake who has great hands/gets great position. Like from CP3 to Collison I noticed a HUGE difference. Some players make it look easy, but it's not for everyone. Many players of this generation can't even make simple, accurate entry passes consistently with defenders swarming.

Vinylman
07-18-2015, 12:51 PM
It will be Okafor just because of the situation he is in ...

He will average 17.2/8.2

Clippersfan86
07-18-2015, 12:55 PM
I retract Porzingis. If Knicks fans think he will only play 20 mpg, obviously he won't win it. I wish he'd play 30+ and be thrown to fire, but given that, Okafor probably.

nycericanguy
07-18-2015, 12:59 PM
I retract Porzingis. If Knicks fans think he will only play 20 mpg, obviously he won't win it. I wish he'd play 30+ and be thrown to fire, but given that, Okafor probably.

I was reading the goal for KP is to come into camp at 245 and win the starting job, so i'm sure they'd LIKE to start him and play him 25-30mpg but they're being cautious.

Man I salivate at starting a 7'3 guy with a 7'0 footer... insane rim protection and both guys are quick enough to guard a lot of 4's too.

Vinylman
07-18-2015, 01:13 PM
I retract Porzingis. If Knicks fans think he will only play 20 mpg, obviously he won't win it. I wish he'd play 30+ and be thrown to fire, but given that, Okafor probably.

No way his body will be able to handle 30 minutes a night... I would be surprised if he averaged more than 22 minutes for the full year... he might average more early but will get worn down if they do that.

Clippersfan86
07-18-2015, 01:19 PM
Porzingis is like an NBA 2K13 character created to cheese people in online play. 7'3 with lights out shooting, good handles for his size and absurd length? People questioned his defense and that was his BEST impact in SL. I legit think he will still grow and inch and top out at like 7'4" in shoes. He will be the tallest player in the NBA, if he already isn't. I actually think his upside is being very underrated.

Clippersfan86
07-18-2015, 01:21 PM
No way his body will be able to handle 30 minutes a night... I would be surprised if he averaged more than 22 minutes for the full year... he might average more early but will get worn down if they do that.

Definitely would wear him down at center. I'd like them to put him at a lot of SF though and run Melo at 4 to balance it out fatigue wise. If I was Fisher I'd get him playing a mix of 3/4/5 and experiment.

2-ONE-5
07-18-2015, 01:42 PM
Sixers are so bad so easily Okafor.

what does it have to do with being bad? he going to win it bcuz he is the best player in the class and bcuz he will have the best opportunity sine he is the most ready to start producing right away

Clippersfan86
07-18-2015, 01:46 PM
what does it have to do with being bad? he going to win it bcuz he is the best player in the class and bcuz he will have the best opportunity sine he is the most ready to start producing right away

That remains to be seen before speaking in absolutes. Don't be a Sith. Still games to be played. I hate when threads encourage people to proclaim projections of teams or players as a fact.

Hawkeye15
07-18-2015, 01:48 PM
well the award is straight up ppg, so Okafor is my choice. I think he will get 30-35 mpg, and get a ton of touches on a team lacking offense. Mudiay is my choice #2.

JasonJohnHorn
07-18-2015, 01:49 PM
With how young these guys all are, it is hard to tell which ones will adapt quickest. I'm inclined to go with Russell because he has the great all-around game voters like, he'll be in a big market team, and the Lakers' pick from last year has not time under his belt, so it's not like they will be 'further' developing him.

The Lakers also lost some guys and haven't brought anybody significant in, so they will be leaning on their young players.


The thing that might negatively impact his numbers is Kobe. If he's demanding the ball as much as he did last year, it will really stunt the growth of these players.

Hawkeye15
07-18-2015, 01:49 PM
what does it have to do with being bad? he going to win it bcuz he is the best player in the class and bcuz he will have the best opportunity sine he is the most ready to start producing right away

well typically bad teams will give their rookies big minutes and a big role is why it matters. See Wiggins last year.....

nycericanguy
07-18-2015, 01:49 PM
what does it have to do with being bad? he going to win it bcuz he is the best player in the class and bcuz he will have the best opportunity sine he is the most ready to start producing right away

not sure if serious?

Obviously a guy on a horrible team will get a ton of chances to score, SOMEONE has to score. Is there anyone on PHI's roster that even averaged double digit scoring last year?

EDIT: ok Wroten scored double figures but only played 30 games.

Hawkeye15
07-18-2015, 01:50 PM
With how young these guys all are, it is hard to tell which ones will adapt quickest. I'm inclined to go with Russell because he has the great all-around game voters like, he'll be in a big market team, and the Lakers' pick from last year has not time under his belt, so it's not like they will be 'further' developing him.

The Lakers also lost some guys and haven't brought anybody significant in, so they will be leaning on their young players.


The thing that might negatively impact his numbers is Kobe. If he's demanding the ball as much as he did last year, it will really stunt the growth of these players.

and Clarkson....

Russell is 3rd in the pecking order in his back court. I think he has about a zero chance of winning ROY unless injuries occur.

Vinylman
07-18-2015, 02:01 PM
and Clarkson....

Russell is 3rd in the pecking order in his back court. I think he has about a zero chance of winning ROY unless injuries occur.

agreed... until they trade Clarkson...

and trust me ... they will trade him

Vinylman
07-18-2015, 02:02 PM
what does it have to do with being bad? he going to win it bcuz he is the best player in the class and bcuz he will have the best opportunity sine he is the most ready to start producing right away

ummm ... the last two ROY's don't confirm this? mmmmmkay

Cal827
07-18-2015, 02:15 PM
what does it have to do with being bad? he going to win it bcuz he is the best player in the class and bcuz he will have the best opportunity sine he is the most ready to start producing right away


Mike James averaged 20-4-6 on a pretty bad Raptor team about a decade ago :laugh2:

I know he wasn't a rookie, but I think you understand my point.

He might be the best player in the class... if so, then it will likely be further established by this rookie year. I just hope that it doesn't end up giving him unreal expectations afterwards, when the team around him should get better.

TylerSL
07-18-2015, 02:16 PM
Even though I'm extremely happy with Winslow I did badly want the Heat to draft Stanley Johnson. He's such a tough player and has a great work ethic. That said, I do not believe he will win Rookie of the Year. First off I don't believe he will start as Detroit acquired Marcus Morris from Phoenix while guys like Towns, Okafor, Russell, Porzingis, WCS, and Mudiay will not only be starting, they will be some of the main contributors to their teams.

Rookie of the Year will likely be one of Towns, Okafor, Russell, or Mudiay. Porzingis, while strong in the summer league, will struggle over the course of his rookie year and WCS is too limited offensively and lacking a complete game to be considered IMO. Out of those four mentioned above I would go with Russell to be the early favorite because the Lakers look to improve more than Minnesota, Philadelphia, and Denver as well as Russell will have the ball in hands more than Towns and Okafor and will score more than Mudiay. So I'm sticking with D'Angelo Russell as the 2015-2016 NBA Rookie of the Year.

Clippersfan86
07-18-2015, 02:18 PM
I'm willing to bet on Porzingis being the best from this draft class in 3 years. He's gonna add 10-20 lbs to his frame and take Okafor's soul.

ewing
07-18-2015, 02:19 PM
i definitely think it will be Okofor

GiantsSwaGG
07-18-2015, 02:22 PM
Okafor
Russell
Towns
Mudiay

LAKERS4LIFE!!
07-18-2015, 02:43 PM
what does it have to do with being bad? he going to win it bcuz he is the best player in the class and bcuz he will have the best opportunity sine he is the most ready to start producing right away

I was going to answer this but everyone else answered it for me since it's clearly obvious.

LAKERS4LIFE!!
07-18-2015, 02:47 PM
How much better are the Lakers lol..

The Sixers play to lose. the Lakers suck but they have more talent and are better than the Sixers(Trust me I' not proud of that at all lol).

MonroeFAN
07-18-2015, 03:13 PM
Nice to see the Stanley Johnson love. I hope he factors into our game-plan from day 1, but he probably won't play enough to win ROTY.

I'm gonna go with Jah, or Mudiay.

Hawkeye15
07-18-2015, 03:37 PM
agreed... until they trade Clarkson...

and trust me ... they will trade him

Can Clarkson play off the ball, or are he and Russell just overlapping skillsets to the manner one of them needs to go eventually? They need an upgrade at SF/C, and if one of those 2 is traded, at SG too.

Vinylman
07-18-2015, 03:53 PM
Can Clarkson play off the ball, or are he and Russell just overlapping skillsets to the manner one of them needs to go eventually? They need an upgrade at SF/C, and if one of those 2 is traded, at SG too.

yeah... with the offense that they run it is hard to see how they coexist...

If you add that to the fact that mitch likes experienced vets i can easily see him trading him at the deadline...

The Lakers will also have to think hard on whether they want to give him a big contract after this year since he will be eligible.

Alayla
07-18-2015, 04:10 PM
You don't think the Lakers are much better than the sixers?


My choice is super Mario

Not really no in fact in regards to the next 5 or so years your actually far worse off.

nickdymez
07-18-2015, 04:17 PM
Not really no in fact in regards to the next 5 or so years your actually far worse off.
Ok whatever

LakerShow
07-18-2015, 04:31 PM
Even though I'm extremely happy with Winslow I did badly want the Heat to draft Stanley Johnson. He's such a tough player and has a great work ethic. That said, I do not believe he will win Rookie of the Year. First off I don't believe he will start as Detroit acquired Marcus Morris from Phoenix while guys like Towns, Okafor, Russell, Porzingis, WCS, and Mudiay will not only be starting, they will be some of the main contributors to their teams.

Rookie of the Year will likely be one of Towns, Okafor, Russell, or Mudiay. Porzingis, while strong in the summer league, will struggle over the course of his rookie year and WCS is too limited offensively and lacking a complete game to be considered IMO. Out of those four mentioned above I would go with Russell to be the early favorite because the Lakers look to improve more than Minnesota, Philadelphia, and Denver as well as Russell will have the ball in hands more than Towns and Okafor and will score more than Mudiay. So I'm sticking with D'Angelo Russell as the 2015-2016 NBA Rookie of the Year.

this, smart man.

Gagan136
07-18-2015, 05:02 PM
Prob be Okafor, he looks really good. Wonder if Randle has a shot.

mngopher35
07-18-2015, 05:20 PM
I think Okafor is in the best position and his game is considered more nba ready as well. With Embiid out it should allow him to play as much as he can handle, seems to be the obvious choice.

Hawkeye15
07-18-2015, 05:38 PM
Prob be Okafor, he looks really good. Wonder if Randle has a shot.

He played a few minutes last year, he is ineligible, right?

J_M_B
07-18-2015, 06:08 PM
He played a few minutes last year, he is ineligible, right?

Yea your right

Has to be the shortest rookie campaign ever lol

Hawkeye15
07-18-2015, 07:32 PM
Yea your right

Has to be the shortest rookie campaign ever lol

14 minutes. Felt bad for the kid

xxplayerxx23
07-18-2015, 10:15 PM
I'm willing to bet on Porzingis being the best from this draft class in 3 years. He's gonna add 10-20 lbs to his frame and take Okafor's soul.

Knife fans get enough bs we don't need your support to make it worse on us

Clippersfan86
07-19-2015, 12:12 AM
Knife fans get enough bs we don't need your support to make it worse on us

Don't worry, I can't possibly do anything to give Knicks fans a worse reputation. Luckily we have a few good Knicks fans here who are cool to talk ball with.

Kyben36
07-19-2015, 12:21 AM
How much better are the Lakers lol..

Lakers have kobe comanding the ball, 76ers Okafor will be there kobe for now.

Alayla
07-19-2015, 02:33 AM
Lakers have kobe comanding the ball, 76ers Okafor will be there kobe for now.

Kobe commanding the ball isn't really a point in there favor at this point in his career.
Its not much different than saying Lou Williams will be commanding the ball.. not exactly a glowing example of skill for a franchise and even worse when that guy is like what 37 soon and has not played actively for the better part of 2 years?
Worse still hes on a bad contract and figures to retire over the next season or 2.
We have there pick for next year limiting what talent they can add
Top all that off with them being in the western conference and i don't see how they figure to be better off.
Maybe right this second and even by the end of this season?
But going forward? the Sixers are clearly in the better situation right now and lets be honest that's what matters for both teams going forward because they anit doing **** this year.

2-ONE-5
07-19-2015, 10:14 AM
well typically bad teams will give their rookies big minutes and a big role is why it matters. See Wiggins last year.....

right but then you have Mitoric...

im just a believer that the better players will show out no matter what team they play for. So throw Okafor on NY or LA even behind Kobe and MElo an i still think he wins it.

warfelg
07-19-2015, 10:37 AM
right but then you have Mitoric...

im just a believer that the better players will show out no matter what team they play for. So throw Okafor on NY or LA even behind Kobe and MElo an i still think he wins it.

Agreed. Okafor would average a double double on LAL or NYK and be a ROY candidate anyways.

I think he will shockingly be second in assists behind Mudiay for rookies. He will get doubled a lot, but he is a sneaky good passer out of the post. Add in about 8 rebounds per game (he will lose some to Noel). And even at 55-65% from the field, 60% on 10 FT per game (I think he will take more trips than that and plenty of and-1's), with about 14 shots per game that's easily 20 points.

20/8/4 is easily achievable for Okafor. No rookie is getting ROY over him if he does that.

latinofire21
07-19-2015, 10:37 AM
Lol at Okafor averaging 20 ppg his rookie year. No ****ing way, no matter which team. Very few rookies do that. Pretty sure last 20 ppg rookie was Blake Griffin in 2011. Rookie Durant barely hit it. People are nuts if they think Okafor has that all time great type game.

I get what your saying but I will have to respectfully disagree. I don't think anyone coming out of college since Blake has had the right opportunity to put those numbers up. 76ers are going to be bad again and okafor has a strong offensive game. They aren't going to be taking him out in blowouts because they aren't competing for the playoffs. He can easily average 20 a game and not effect the win column for the 76ers. I don't think it will be a meaningful 20 and 8 but anyone can fill up the stat sheet when everyone around him is trash. Just my opinion of course

WSU Tony
07-19-2015, 10:46 AM
Oakafor. Even if he puts up 18/10 his horrible defense will negate much of the value he adds on offense. We don't value players based on how much they help the team win so I think okafor will win it.

nycericanguy
07-19-2015, 10:47 AM
right but then you have Mitoric...

im just a believer that the better players will show out no matter what team they play for. So throw Okafor on NY or LA even behind Kobe and MElo an i still think he wins it.

Mirotic would have had a good chance to win ROY if he were on a bad team, but being on a good team limited him to 20mpg and only 7 shots per game. Heck he even got some DNP's.

FOXHOUND
07-19-2015, 10:59 AM
Agreed. Okafor would average a double double on LAL or NYK and be a ROY candidate anyways.

I think he will shockingly be second in assists behind Mudiay for rookies. He will get doubled a lot, but he is a sneaky good passer out of the post. Add in about 8 rebounds per game (he will lose some to Noel). And even at 55-65% from the field, 60% on 10 FT per game (I think he will take more trips than that and plenty of and-1's), with about 14 shots per game that's easily 20 points.

20/8/4 is easily achievable for Okafor. No rookie is getting ROY over him if he does that.

I love your optimism and am a big Okafor fan myself, but there's no way he's shooting 55-60% as a rookie with the volume he's going to have. His post passing is awesome, but just in the tourney teams were able to get the ball out of his hands and make him less effective by swarming him.

On a 76ers team with no other real offensive threat, teams won't have an issue bum rushing him at all. The limitations to his offensive game will also hurt him in the same regard. Big men have such a tough transition as it is, it's hard going from being one of only a couple of 6'11, 270 pound guys like he was in college to the NBA where there are not only plenty that size but grown men with developed strength.

I'm expecting him to have a rookie season similar to DeMarcus Cousins - 14 PTS, 8.5 REB, 2.5 AST and 3.3 TO. But I see a difference in their efficiency, where as Cousins was a 43% FG and 68% FT guy I see Okafor being more like 46% and 55%. I do very much like his ROY chances though.

2-ONE-5
07-19-2015, 12:21 PM
Mirotic would have had a good chance to win ROY if he were on a bad team, but being on a good team limited him to 20mpg and only 7 shots per game. Heck he even got some DNP's.

oh i know but he still finished 2nd (even though he shoulda been behind Noel). Also i think most agreed that Parker was starting to look likethe ROY last year before getting hurt on a playoff team.

Hawkeye15
07-19-2015, 09:24 PM
right but then you have Mitoric...

im just a believer that the better players will show out no matter what team they play for. So throw Okafor on NY or LA even behind Kobe and MElo an i still think he wins it.

Right but did Mitoric win ROY? No.

I don't agree Okafor still wins it on a good team. That is so rare. The ROY is literally all about PPG, and stats, meaning, they need to have a high usage, meaning, they are on a bad team. Just the way it is.

You don't need to pimp your player. I think Okafor is the most NBA ready, and on a team that will give him 32 mpg (out of need), and he will be a 16-8 type rookie, and win it.

cvburg
07-19-2015, 09:28 PM
Sleeping on Mario!

2-ONE-5
07-19-2015, 10:50 PM
Right but did Mitoric win ROY? No.

I don't agree Okafor still wins it on a good team. That is so rare. The ROY is literally all about PPG, and stats, meaning, they need to have a high usage, meaning, they are on a bad team. Just the way it is.

You don't need to pimp your player. I think Okafor is the most NBA ready, and on a team that will give him 32 mpg (out of need), and he will be a 16-8 type rookie, and win it.

lol im not pimping my player and i also made another post about Parker probably winning it if he never went down on a playoff team

Hawkeye15
07-20-2015, 02:18 PM
lol im not pimping my player and i also made another post about Parker probably winning it if he never went down on a playoff team

pimpin!

well he went down. And the usual trend continues. Okafor will win it because he is NBA ready, and will have a lot of touches, and produce numbers. The voters could care less about team success when it comes to this award.

5ass
07-20-2015, 02:45 PM
pimpin!

well he went down. And the usual trend continues. Okafor will win it because he is NBA ready, and will have a lot of touches, and produce numbers. The voters could care less about team success when it comes to this award.
He does have a point though. If Mirotic put up the exact same stats on a bad team he wouldn't have been 2nd in ROY voting. Hell he wouldn't have been top 5.

Sactown
07-20-2015, 03:08 PM
He does have a point though. If Mirotic put up the exact same stats on a bad team he wouldn't have been 2nd in ROY voting. Hell he wouldn't have been top 5.

on a bad team he takes more than 7 shots a game and doesn't play only 20 minute collecting DNPCDs . Good teams don't allow their rookies to tread water and learn from their mistakes.

Andrew Wiggins had 8 games of over 20FGA
and 37 with 15+ FGA

Kevin Love had 2 with over 20 and only 20 with 15+ .

Wiggins had 57 games of 35+ minutes.. contenders simply can't do that.

Good teams can't produce ROY candidates unless the rookie is just head and shoulders above his competition

5ass
07-20-2015, 03:20 PM
on a bad team he takes more than 7 shots a game and doesn't play only 20 minute collecting DNPCDs . Good teams don't allow their rookies to tread water and learn from their mistakes.

Andrew Wiggins had 8 games of over 20FGA
and 37 with 15+ FGA

Kevin Love had 2 with over 20 and only 20 with 15+ .

Wiggins had 57 games of 35+ minutes.. contenders simply can't do that.

Good teams can't produce ROY candidates unless the rookie is just head and shoulders above his competition

I'm not arguing against that. I'm saying that sometimes team record is given consideration as evidenced by Mirotic's votes. We can go into this hypothetical that he would've gotten more shots and playing time on a bad team, and its most likely true, but in the end its still a hypothetical. Its an assumption. So what you're saying doesn't disprove his point or prove Hawkeye's point where we only consider the facts (PPG, ect.).

Jetsguy
07-20-2015, 03:43 PM
Okafor

Hawkeye15
07-20-2015, 03:53 PM
I'm not arguing against that. I'm saying that sometimes team record is given consideration as evidenced by Mirotic's votes. We can go into this hypothetical that he would've gotten more shots and playing time on a bad team, and its most likely true, but in the end its still a hypothetical. Its an assumption. So what you're saying doesn't disprove his point or prove Hawkeye's point where we only consider the facts (PPG, ect.).

Mirotic gained steam by the analytical guys, and his late push when he got minutes. Him finishing a DISTANT 2nd doesn't disprove the fact that historically, it really only matters who scores the most ppg as a rookie. Outside Blake Griffin, and CP3, you have to go all the way back to Duncan to find a rookie who was more than a replacement level player really.

It is all about the stats, and that means you need to play a lot more. Figure it like this, if Mirotic is on the Wolves, and Wiggins the Cavs, Mirotic wins easily, because quite frankly, he was a better basketball player last year and if he had the minutes and shots Wiggins did, would have done a better job with them. Even having him on any terrible team, you get him winning it.

Winning teams just don't have a lot of minutes for rookies usually. You literally have to go back to Duncan to find a ROY that played for a contender. And we all know that is because a great Spurs team was ravaged by injuries for a single season and got the prize.

5ass
07-20-2015, 04:11 PM
Mirotic gained steam by the analytical guys, and his late push when he got minutes. Him finishing a DISTANT 2nd doesn't disprove the fact that historically, it really only matters who scores the most ppg as a rookie. Outside Blake Griffin, and CP3, you have to go all the way back to Duncan to find a rookie who was more than a replacement level player really.

It is all about the stats, and that means you need to play a lot more. Figure it like this, if Mirotic is on the Wolves, and Wiggins the Cavs, Mirotic wins easily, because quite frankly, he was a better basketball player last year and if he had the minutes and shots Wiggins did, would have done a better job with them. Even having him on any terrible team, you get him winning it.

Winning teams just don't have a lot of minutes for rookies usually. You literally have to go back to Duncan to find a ROY that played for a contender. And we all know that is because a great Spurs team was ravaged by injuries for a single season and got the prize.

So don't you think its possible the analytical guys are pushing to break that trend?

Wrigheyes4MVP
07-20-2015, 04:26 PM
Is Porzingas really 7'3"? I thought he was 7'1".

Hawkeye15
07-20-2015, 04:28 PM
So don't you think its possible the analytical guys are pushing to break that trend?

they are trying. They tried last year, Mirotic was smashed in the voting. The trend may change at some point, but it would need to be a base stat line that didn't have a lot of difference. Meaning, why would you give ROY to a guy who didn't play half the game, and started 3 games, averaging 10-5, over a guy who started 82 games, played 35 mpg, and went for 17-4.5? It just doesn't pass the obvious bar at all.

The award goes to the player who produces the most, and in order to do that, as a rookie, you need a lot of playing time and a lead role. Rookies on good teams almost never see those 2 things happen.

Wrigheyes4MVP
07-20-2015, 04:29 PM
Mirotic gained steam by the analytical guys, and his late push when he got minutes. Him finishing a DISTANT 2nd doesn't disprove the fact that historically, it really only matters who scores the most ppg as a rookie. Outside Blake Griffin, and CP3, you have to go all the way back to Duncan to find a rookie who was more than a replacement level player really.

It is all about the stats, and that means you need to play a lot more. Figure it like this, if Mirotic is on the Wolves, and Wiggins the Cavs, Mirotic wins easily, because quite frankly, he was a better basketball player last year and if he had the minutes and shots Wiggins did, would have done a better job with them. Even having him on any terrible team, you get him winning it.

Winning teams just don't have a lot of minutes for rookies usually. You literally have to go back to Duncan to find a ROY that played for a contender. And we all know that is because a great Spurs team was ravaged by injuries for a single season and got the prize.

Lebron was below replacement level? AD, Carmelo, Durant?

Sactown
07-20-2015, 04:33 PM
I'm not arguing against that. I'm saying that sometimes team record is given consideration as evidenced by Mirotic's votes. We can go into this hypothetical that he would've gotten more shots and playing time on a bad team, and its most likely true, but in the end its still a hypothetical. Its an assumption. So what you're saying doesn't disprove his point or prove Hawkeye's point where we only consider the facts (PPG, ect.).

My point is, volume has continually decided rookie of the year,

And while you could argue analytics pushed Mirotics value I'd say he was still among the best in volume down the stretch averaging 10/5 over the course of the season

Analytically you could argue Noels defensive impact supersedes that of Mirotics and Wiggins total impact.

Regardless the competition was weak last season, Payton and Clarkson round out the top 5 with worse volume than Mirotic..

I dont think analytics had an affect on the outcome and the ROY was still won by the guy with the most volume

Sactown
07-20-2015, 04:39 PM
Lebron was below replacement level? AD, Carmelo, Durant?

Durant, AD, didn't actually impact the W/L column very much their rookie seasons

Seattle won 3 more games after his rookie season

And New Orleans won 7..

LeBron helped his team win 35 but they didn't make the playoffs either

These are also the best players of the last decade ...

5ass
07-20-2015, 04:40 PM
they are trying. They tried last year, Mirotic was smashed in the voting. The trend may change at some point, but it would need to be a base stat line that didn't have a lot of difference. Meaning, why would you give ROY to a guy who didn't play half the game, and started 3 games, averaging 10-5, over a guy who started 82 games, played 35 mpg, and went for 17-4.5? It just doesn't pass the obvious bar at all.

The award goes to the player who produces the most, and in order to do that, as a rookie, you need a lot of playing time and a lead role. Rookies on good teams almost never see those 2 things happen.

It doesn't have to be that extreme though. Think of a Ben Gordon vs Emeka Okafor situation.

Hawkeye15
07-20-2015, 04:40 PM
Lebron was below replacement level? AD, Carmelo, Durant?

Carmelo was 67th in win shares (and his team making the playoffs had more to do with the roster the year prior and his rookie year, seriously Voshon Leonard was the best player on the 02-03' team probably).

LeBron was 90th in win shares. His team was still bad with him as a rookie

Kevin Durant was 198th in win shares his rookie year, team was still bad with him as a rookie

AD was 56th in win shares his first season on a team that was bad.

I guess it depends what you call replacement level, but none of these guys were adding a bunch of wins to their team in year 1. Like I said, prior to Blake/CP3, you have to go back to Duncan to get a very good starting NBA caliber player from a rookie. The one and done era is pumping physically not ready kids into the league. They recover, but their first year is a learning one. It's different than when rookies were 22 year old men. Carmelo benefited from this, he looked like senior year big dog as a freshman. Most are not that physically ready.

Hawkeye15
07-20-2015, 04:41 PM
It doesn't have to be that extreme though. Think of a Ben Gordon vs Emeka Okafor situation.

you get the point I am making. Don't be surprised when the bottom line production player wins it this year. Again.