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View Full Version : Among the potiential playoff teams in the East....



GiantsSwaGG
07-14-2015, 06:16 PM
Who should start rebuilding if they fail in the playoffs again?

My pick:

1. Raptors

They have Kyle Lowry who's overrated, and only plays well in a contract year, A SG who can't shoot and will command the SUPER Max when his contract is up, a center that's still taking a while to develop... They will make the playoff but most likely will get bounced out the first round imo. Good thing is they have the Knicks pick next season so it would be a nice start if they rebuild if they choose to blow it up.

warfelg
07-14-2015, 06:23 PM
The Pacers. Sure they got Paul George. But losing West, the downfall of Hibbert, and oddly enough losing Stephenson hurt them. And they haven't replaced them well. If PG comes back and is good and they miss the playoffs, they should move him and Hill for major assets and reboot.

GiantsSwaGG
07-14-2015, 06:26 PM
The Pacers. Sure they got Paul George. But losing West, the downfall of Hibbert, and oddly enough losing Stephenson hurt them. And they haven't replaced them well. If PG comes back and is good and they miss the playoffs, they should move him and Hill for major assets and reboot.

I think the George injury is what killed the Pacers not losing Lance imo, they have to hope Paul George can return to form and Turner develops into the center they wanted Hibbert to be. I think they'll be fine but I hated the Ellis signing!

warfelg
07-14-2015, 06:30 PM
I think the George injury is what killed the Pacers not losing Lance imo, they have to hope Paul George can return to form and Turner develops into the center they wanted Hibbert to be. I think they'll be fine but I hated the Ellis signing!

Lance surprisingly gave them something positive. And as a 6th man he was a great fit knowing he was always a 3rd/4th wheel.

So basically they lost 3 supporting players that worked very well. But they are quickly getting to early LeBron Cavs territory.

GiantsSwaGG
07-14-2015, 06:33 PM
Lance surprisingly gave them something positive. And as a 6th man he was a great fit knowing he was always a 3rd/4th wheel.

So basically they lost 3 supporting players that worked very well. But they are quickly getting to early LeBron Cavs territory.

yeah on the court, but off the court/locker rom he was toxic

ManRam
07-14-2015, 06:45 PM
i think you can make arguments that it would be worth blowing it up or at least making major revisions if chicago, toronto, indy, charlotte and nyk don't make it (or struggle a bit more than expected in those first two's cases, because they'll almost assuredly be in the playoffs regardless).

cavs, wizards, heat, bucks and to a lesser extent the hawks probably won't be doing any of that regardless.

detroit and orlando just have to make improvements, and maybe some tweaking next summer, but no rebuilding. same with the 76ers, obviously.

brooklyn essentially has started and will be forced to even more so next summer.

and boston is boston. ainge is ainge.

beasted86
07-14-2015, 07:51 PM
Consistent playoff teams should now blow up their roster and tank and rebuild?

What is this disease that is infecting the brains of fans? Is Sam Hinkie patient zero.

Imagine if the Hawks thought the same way. After making the playoffs for 7 years straight they just decided last year they got bounced 3 times straight in the first round and they want to trade Horford and Millsap for picks and flip Korver for a player on a rookie salary...

Would they be better off according to your logic? Apparently.

bucketss
07-14-2015, 08:24 PM
we don't have to rebuild, the knicks are already doing that for us.

ManRam
07-14-2015, 08:26 PM
Consistent playoff teams should now blow up their roster and tank and rebuild?

What is this disease that is infecting the brains of fans? Is Sam Hinkie patient zero.

Imagine if the Hawks thought the same way. After making the playoffs for 7 years straight they just decided last year they got bounced 3 times straight in the first round and they want to trade Horford and Millsap for picks and flip Korver for a player on a rookie salary...

Would they be better off according to your logic? Apparently.

for your hawks example. maybe? probably not this summer, but if horford leaves in free agency and the right pieces aren't there, maybe it's worth looking into moving some pieces. korver will be 35 by season's end. maybe maxing horford isn't something they want to do. at that point, maybe it is time to look towards the future rather than riding the same exact ship to the same exact result.

more generally...

teams that don't have the pieces on their rosters to make that next step should always absolutely consider making moves, drastic or otherwise, to expedite getting there down the road. we've seen plenty of teams pump more and more money into teams just to stay afloat, only to be crippled for years and years from those decisions when it didn't work. they dig themselves into far deeper holes. i don't think i need to list the countless examples of teams desperately trying to stay good, signing and retaining guys they shouldn't have, and only seeing it backfire in the worst of ways.

say you're toronto and you finish another season with 48 wins and a first round exit. is re-signing derozan to that huge payday he wants, giving jonas 15-20 million a year and maybe bringing in some slightly-over-the-hill free agents to bloated contracts really worth it? keeping the gang together is great and all but if the gang can't get better and all you're doing is throwing more and more money into that same gang, well...you're screwing yourself in the long run.


"rebuilding" doesn't have to be what hinkie did. it doesn't have to be that black and white. but at a certain point trying to stay competitive can absolutely backfire. sometimes the best way forward is a brief step backwards. i don't see how that's controversial. it happens all too frequently by all too stubborn GMs.

GiantsSwaGG
07-14-2015, 08:29 PM
we don't have to rebuild, the knicks are already doing that for us.

It would of been more funny if that joke wasn't already said by someone else. Yes we are helping you, you guys need it

GiantsSwaGG
07-14-2015, 08:36 PM
for your hawks example. maybe? probably not this summer, but if horford leaves in free agency and the right pieces aren't there, maybe it's worth looking into moving some pieces. korver will be 35 by season's end. maybe maxing horford isn't something they want to do. at that point, maybe it is time to look towards the future rather than riding the same exact ship to the same exact result.

more generally...

teams that don't have the pieces on their rosters to make that next step should always absolutely consider making moves, drastic or otherwise, to expedite getting there down the road. we've seen plenty of teams pump more and more money into teams just to stay afloat, only to be crippled for years and years from those decisions when it didn't work. they dig themselves into far deeper holes. i don't think i need to list the countless examples of teams desperately trying to stay good, signing and retaining guys they shouldn't have, and only seeing it backfire in the worst of ways.

say you're toronto and you finish another season with 48 wins and a first round exit. is re-signing derozan to that huge payday he wants, giving jonas 15-20 million a year and maybe bringing in some slightly-over-the-hill free agents to bloated contracts really worth it? keeping the gang together is great and all but if the gang can't get better and all you're doing is throwing more and more money into that same gang, well...you're screwing yourself in the long run.


"rebuilding" doesn't have to be what hinkie did. it doesn't have to be that black and white. but at a certain point trying to stay competitive can absolutely backfire. sometimes the best way forward is a brief step backwards. i don't see how that's controversial. it happens all too frequently by all too stubborn GMs.

exactly, the Hawks might be in the playoffs every year but they're nowhere near making the finals, heck they're question the Hawks winning 60 games was a fluke. Hawks had an easy (lucky) path to the conference finals and got smoked, Raptors won the Atlantic and got DESTROYED/EMBARRASSED in the first round by the Wizards. And ppl forgot how the Wizards who once were a consistent playoff team blew it up after another failure only to end up with Wall, Beal and Porter and are prime to contend.

Cavs
Bulls
Bucks
Wizard

4 teams that will that will contend for the finals

beasted86
07-14-2015, 09:15 PM
"rebuilding" doesn't have to be what hinkie did. it doesn't have to be that black and white. but at a certain point trying to stay competitive can absolutely backfire. sometimes the best way forward is a brief step backwards. i don't see how that's controversial. it happens all too frequently by all too stubborn GMs.
I guess it depends on your view of a rebuild. To me when someone uses the word "rebuild" it means extensive repair or revision.

When some "rebuilds" (or remanufactured) a car engine that means to strip it down completely, inspect all working parts, discard what is broken, etc. It's extensive and the car is usually down for a couple weeks.

If you have a "new" engine that needs a rebuild (rather than a repair) I would highly question what's going on there. Is this engine an inherently flawed design that the root of the problem is engineering? Taking questionable risks where there didn't need it in the name of HP or MPG? Skimping on cheap parts that will continue breaking?

Similarly when people say rebuild a team I expect a long layoff the same way. If they are team freshly coming off a playoff and have a young (see: "new") core, I again question whether it's an inherently flawed design and the root of the problem is the engineering. Is this one of those toxic front offices (see: Kings) that want them to play at a certain pace or be flashy rather than focusing on fundamentals or what simply works? Did they make horrible signings (see: Pistons) that set themselves back?

A team that has a youngish core that's coming off a playoff trip should be able to be retooled. That doesn't mean you have to make risky choices like Bynum to try and get over the top.

apocalypse15
07-14-2015, 09:15 PM
I think the Celtics have a better record than last year. Granted they got lucky because other teams folded due to injury in the end but, they have done nothing but upgrade this off season.

beasted86
07-14-2015, 09:22 PM
exactly, the Hawks might be in the playoffs every year but they're nowhere near making the finals, heck they're question the Hawks winning 60 games was a fluke. Hawks had an easy (lucky) path to the conference finals and got smoked, Raptors won the Atlantic and got DESTROYED/EMBARRASSED in the first round by the Wizards. And ppl forgot how the Wizards who once were a consistent playoff team blew it up after another failure only to end up with Wall, Beal and Porter and are prime to contend.

Cavs
Bulls
Bucks
Wizard

4 teams that will that will contend for the finals
Get me 10 CCs stat! This one's going into shock! The Hinkie tank syndrome has a strong grip on you.

Wait, did you just say the Wizards losing for 5 years and ending up with what they currently have is great?

I think we're losing him!!!

Let me just pose a simple question to you. Outside of getting Durant, its there any other player the Wizards can get in free agency that would make them a legit contender to win a Finals? If you can't name a player then that's a huge problem and means the Wizards failed their rebuild miserably because they are no closer to a championship than when they had the Agent Zero core.

GiantsSwaGG
07-14-2015, 10:12 PM
Get me 10 CCs stat! This one's going into shock! The Hinkie tank syndrome has a strong grip on you.

Wait, did you just say the Wizards losing for 5 years and ending up with what they currently have is great?

I think we're losing him!!!

Let me just pose a simple question to you. Outside of getting Durant, its there any other player the Wizards can get in free agency that would make them a legit contender to win a Finals? If you can't name a player then that's a huge problem and means the Wizards failed their rebuild miserably because they are no closer to a championship than when they had the Agent Zero core.

The Wizard are prime to take the next step.

Porter Jr (improved ALOT) last season
Beal
Wall
Gortat

That's a pretty good core. I think Durant is a real possibility for them but if they don't get him I like Horford for them.

Wall (already a top 5 PG)
Beal (might reach his star potiential this season)
Porter
Horford
Gortant

That's a line up I can say will give the Cavs a hard time imo.

And for the record I don't agree with the way Henkiie been rebuilding

Cal827
07-14-2015, 10:17 PM
Don't trust this guy people, OP is known to randomly start bait threads against the Raptors outta nowhere :laugh2:

GiantsSwaGG
07-14-2015, 10:20 PM
Don't trust this guy people, OP is known to randomly start bait threads against the Raptors outta nowhere :laugh2:

👼🏾

Cal827
07-14-2015, 10:25 PM
But I agree with you. If the Raptors aren't near the top before the all-star break, I can see them going on a fire sale before the trade deadline. While Derozan's future contract is gonna be a pain in the *** for whoever signs him, he has a very friendly deal currently. Many teams would probably love to grab him as a partial rental, especially since for many of the teams, it might only cost them a bit of an overpaid bench or role player along with draft picks :laugh2:

Some of their other contract signings could end up as trade pieces at the deadline too. If Scola plays well, and we are struggling, then he has a friendly contract which could bring back some future value as well. Lowry's contract isn't too crippling either; the only players that I think we are gonna be stuck with for at least a year regardless of what we try is Carroll's and Joseph's. Also since we have the New York pick which might be fairly high and spike in Salary cap to go with big free agents, if there's going to be a time for Ujiri to blow up the team and make his own big imprint on the franchise, it'll be around the end of next year.

I'd pay attention to Miami as well. They have good pieces around, but they also have some guys who might be part of their future success (Winslow, Dragic, Whitesite). Everyone else could potentially be dealt or could leave (Wade, Deng....). With the Cap Spike, someone would be willing to take Bosh off their hands and would likely offer a boatload of stuff for him (assuming he's able to play well). I'm not sure of their current draft situation, but I can see them trying a short rebuild to get back up there (Maybe Wade comes back to mentor, or does like Pierce and goes trying to win rings when the team decides on the rebuild)

Scoots
07-14-2015, 10:44 PM
The Pacers. Sure they got Paul George. But losing West, the downfall of Hibbert, and oddly enough losing Stephenson hurt them. And they haven't replaced them well. If PG comes back and is good and they miss the playoffs, they should move him and Hill for major assets and reboot.

The Pacers could rebuild around PG and Turner, they don't have to blow it up.

warfelg
07-14-2015, 10:53 PM
The Pacers could rebuild around PG and Turner, they don't have to blow it up.

So let's say Hinkie calls up after the Pacers just had a poor season and missed the playoffs, offers 3 of his first rounders in 2016, Nerlens Noel, Tony Wroten, Robert Covington and the protected Kings pick for Paul George and 2 seconds, you think the Pacers should say no? If they miss the playoffs and decide that it isn't working that's a hell of a package to get in return.

warfelg
07-14-2015, 10:53 PM
The Pacers could rebuild around PG and Turner, they don't have to blow it up.

So let's say Hinkie calls up after the Pacers just had a poor season and missed the playoffs, offers 3 of his first rounders in 2016, Nerlens Noel, Tony Wroten, Robert Covington and the protected Kings pick for Paul George and 2 seconds, you think the Pacers should say no? If they miss the playoffs and decide that it isn't working that's a hell of a package to get in return.

Vee-Rex
07-14-2015, 11:55 PM
So let's say Hinkie calls up after the Pacers just had a poor season and missed the playoffs, offers 3 of his first rounders in 2016, Nerlens Noel, Tony Wroten, Robert Covington and the protected Kings pick for Paul George and 2 seconds, you think the Pacers should say no? If they miss the playoffs and decide that it isn't working that's a hell of a package to get in return.

The problem with this is PG is only 25 years old. If he returns to his all-star state, there's no way the Pacers will try to move on without him even if the team does bad. Any rebuild will include him because he's back to form. It's about adding pieces to his talent.

And if PG doesn't look good I doubt even Hinkie would trade all of that for him.

Whereas with someone like Melo, it's more likely for a team to rebuild without him (and make a trade to net good assets) because he's 31 already.

Bostonjorge
07-17-2015, 04:18 PM
The east needs to blow it up.

JROX213*323*310
07-17-2015, 04:30 PM
The Warriors. No "small ball" team had won a championship before them and if they fail to repeat, it'll be proof that it was a fluke and they need a traditional big man to win. I would then trade Steph Curry for Roy Hibbert to get them back on track haha.

Seriously though, the east needs to blow it up.

JROX213*323*310
07-17-2015, 04:31 PM
Oh wait... East teams only. Ok then, the Bulls.

dalton749
07-17-2015, 04:34 PM
Toronto doesn't need to tank at all, trading Lowry will probably happen eventually but ujiri is waiting to rape someone in a trade.
Valanciunas, Ross, biyombo, Joseph, wright, Powell, caboclo, nogueria are all 23 and under and they have 2 firsts the next 2 drafts, with no bad contracts.

They're trying to build while getting away from that image of being a place nobody wants to go to for the last 20 years. They're set up very well for now, and for the future.

Cal827
07-18-2015, 10:08 AM
Toronto doesn't need to tank at all, trading Lowry will probably happen eventually but ujiri is waiting to rape someone in a trade.
Valanciunas, Ross, biyombo, Joseph, wright, Powell, caboclo, nogueria are all 23 and under and they have 2 firsts the next 2 drafts, with no bad contracts.

They're trying to build while getting away from that image of being a place nobody wants to go to for the last 20 years. They're set up very well for now, and for the future.


:laugh2: Oh god, he's gonna be part of the future rebuild? :mad:

Necrosis
07-18-2015, 10:31 AM
exactly, the Hawks might be in the playoffs every year but they're nowhere near making the finals, heck they're question the Hawks winning 60 games was a fluke. Hawks had an easy (lucky) path to the conference finals and got smoked, Raptors won the Atlantic and got DESTROYED/EMBARRASSED in the first round by the Wizards. And ppl forgot how the Wizards who once were a consistent playoff team blew it up after another failure only to end up with Wall, Beal and Porter and are prime to contend.

Cavs
Bulls
Bucks
Wizard

4 teams that will that will contend for the finals


LOLOL. the bucks? lowry was in a non-contract year last year and had his best season, all star starter.. what are you going on about? I know you are trolling, but at least come up with something defensible.

The wizards are worse without pierce, nene is declining rapidly for some reason (too heavy?), the bucks are not top 4 material yet, the bulls, cavs, raptors and pacers will be ahead of them easily.

I expect the raptors to be one of the best teams in the league, their defense might be the best in the league next year. Carroll is legit but biyombo is a defensive stud (look at the advanced stats), powell, joseph and wright are all plus defenders.

lou killed the team, you could see it after the all star, they stopped passing, defense crumbled etc.

They are legit and were the best team in the EAST for a while, they will be in the top 4. The cavs will be the best, the bulls are good and the pacers are much better, they have their SUPERSTAR BACK.