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Stunner
07-04-2015, 08:10 PM
@basketballtalk: Report: Jeremey Lin considering signing for Dallas Mavericks http://t.co/RSB3sNFxzP

Blitzace137
07-04-2015, 08:13 PM
He fits Dallas's up-tempo offense really well. Good at throwing lobs the P&R game between him and Jordan will be good.

Ryan328
07-04-2015, 08:19 PM
Dallas should trade for Brandon Jennings...

mbsalame123
07-04-2015, 08:30 PM
He fits Dallas's up-tempo offense really well. Good at throwing lobs the P&R game between him and Jordan will be good.

I agree. When he was in New York with Tyson Chandler, they were a dominant duo. Now with Deandre Jordan he will be even better and he has his former teammate Chandler Parsons who he played really well with in Houston. I like the Mavericks potential with this signing.

This is their potential roster:

Deandre Jordan
Dirk Nowitski
Chandler Parsons
Wesley Mathews
Jeremy Lin
Devin Harris
Richard Jefferson
JJ Barea
Charlie Villanueva
Justin Anderson
Raymond Felton
Dwight Powell
Bernard James

Their bench is weak and they can possibly resign Amare Stoudamire (although I think he goes to the clippers) or get some other big guy like Kevin Seraphin maybe.

mightybosstone
07-04-2015, 08:52 PM
I'll be shocked if Dallas is a significantly better team than last season. On paper, they essentially got only slightly better at SG and C despite paying an arm and a leg for Matthews and Jordan. And now they're going after Jeremy freaking Lin? The only thing I can think of is that Parsons and Lin are still friendly from their time here in Houston. But Lin is not a starting caliber point guard in the NBA.

I know some people will say they have liked Dallas' offseason so far, and to each his own, but I haven't been a fan thus far. And adding Lin would do nothing to appease my concerns.

Hulk6
07-04-2015, 09:20 PM
I'll be shocked if Dallas is a significantly better team than last season. On paper, they essentially got only slightly better at SG and C despite paying an arm and a leg for Matthews and Jordan. And now they're going after Jeremy freaking Lin? The only thing I can think of is that Parsons and Lin are still friendly from their time here in Houston. But Lin is not a starting caliber point guard in the NBA.

I know some people will say they have liked Dallas' offseason so far, and to each his own, but I haven't been a fan thus far. And adding Lin would do nothing to appease my concerns.

says the rockets fan

gatkins11
07-04-2015, 09:31 PM
Dallas should trade for Brandon Jennings...

Even if they wanted to they don't have any assets.

Ryan328
07-04-2015, 09:35 PM
Even if they wanted to they don't have any assets.

I can't see Detroit wanting too much for him though. I think Reggie is their future PG going forward. Brandon expires next summer, Dallas can offer something I'd think

Mr.B
07-04-2015, 09:49 PM
I'll be shocked if Dallas is a significantly better team than last season. On paper, they essentially got only slightly better at SG and C despite paying an arm and a leg for Matthews and Jordan. And now they're going after Jeremy freaking Lin? The only thing I can think of is that Parsons and Lin are still friendly from their time here in Houston. But Lin is not a starting caliber point guard in the NBA.

I know some people will say they have liked Dallas' offseason so far, and to each his own, but I haven't been a fan thus far. And adding Lin would do nothing to appease my concerns.

Lin is nothing more than a stop gap PG. He will keep the team competitive but trust me, Mavs fans know this is not the year they will contend. Next off season they will get the PG for their future and be legit contenders.

gatkins11
07-04-2015, 11:12 PM
I can't see Detroit wanting too much for him though. I think Reggie is their future PG going forward. Brandon expires next summer, Dallas can offer something I'd think

Can't offer any picks due to the Rondo pick, which is yet to be conveyed. Unless they want Devin Harris or Raymond Felton there's frankly nothing to offer.

blahblahyoutoo
07-04-2015, 11:23 PM
i for sure thought lin would be playing in some league overseas next season. lets see if he can resurrect his career.

Tony_Starks
07-04-2015, 11:25 PM
In the words of Beauty and the Beast, "be MY guest!!!"

Sssmush
07-04-2015, 11:29 PM
I agree. When he was in New York with Tyson Chandler, they were a dominant duo. Now with Deandre Jordan he will be even better and he has his former teammate Chandler Parsons who he played really well with in Houston. I like the Mavericks potential with this signing.

This is their potential roster:

Deandre Jordan
Dirk Nowitski
Chandler Parsons
Wesley Mathews
Jeremy Lin
Devin Harris
Richard Jefferson
JJ Barea
Charlie Villanueva
Justin Anderson
Raymond Felton
Dwight Powell
Bernard James

Their bench is weak and they can possibly resign Amare Stoudamire (although I think he goes to the clippers) or get some other big guy like Kevin Seraphin maybe.


Dallas = Beast Mode

ricky recon
07-05-2015, 12:15 AM
I'll be shocked if Dallas is a significantly better team than last season. On paper, they essentially got only slightly better at SG and C despite paying an arm and a leg for Matthews and Jordan. And now they're going after Jeremy freaking Lin? The only thing I can think of is that Parsons and Lin are still friendly from their time here in Houston. But Lin is not a starting caliber point guard in the NBA.

I know some people will say they have liked Dallas' offseason so far, and to each his own, but I haven't been a fan thus far. And adding Lin would do nothing to appease my concerns.

Well, DeAndre Jordan (26) is a essentially a younger, more athletic, better rebounder than Tyson Chandler (32). Even though Chandler was great, what we needed most, was those qualities, team-wise.

Obviously Matthews is rehabilitating from a serious injury, but he seems to be way ahead of schedule. Only time will tell how strong he comes back, but he is EXACTLY what Dallas needed at SG. Monta played great here, but he wasn't a good defender, and he wasn't a very good 3 point shooter (28.9% to 38.9%). Matthews not only gives a legit defender and shooter to spread the floor, he will allow Parsons more opportunities (19.8 USG% to 27.9 USG%).

Adding a guy like Lin would be perfect.

Whether or not Dallas grabs Lin or not, saying he isn't a starting caliber point guard is off. He had a 15.6 PER and was a 11.2/4.6 guy in a limited role last year. In his first year in Houston he was a 13/6 guy. Guess how many PG's were 13.4/6.1 last year. Fourteen.

To say that he isn't a starting caliber point guard just sounds salty. I think he'd be a great fit with the other starters.

Blitzace137
07-05-2015, 02:02 AM
i for sure thought lin would be playing in some league overseas next season. lets see if he can resurrect his career.

Why? He's better than most back-up PG's.

Thumper 88
07-05-2015, 02:27 AM
I'll be shocked if Dallas is a significantly better team than last season. On paper, they essentially got only slightly better at SG and C despite paying an arm and a leg for Matthews and Jordan. And now they're going after Jeremy freaking Lin? The only thing I can think of is that Parsons and Lin are still friendly from their time here in Houston. But Lin is not a starting caliber point guard in the NBA.

I know some people will say they have liked Dallas' offseason so far, and to each his own, but I haven't been a fan thus far. And adding Lin would do nothing to appease my concerns.

You don't think they have had a good offseason? Wtf could they have done better?

Quinnsanity
07-05-2015, 02:37 AM
I'll be shocked if Dallas is a significantly better team than last season. On paper, they essentially got only slightly better at SG and C despite paying an arm and a leg for Matthews and Jordan. And now they're going after Jeremy freaking Lin? The only thing I can think of is that Parsons and Lin are still friendly from their time here in Houston. But Lin is not a starting caliber point guard in the NBA.

I know some people will say they have liked Dallas' offseason so far, and to each his own, but I haven't been a fan thus far. And adding Lin would do nothing to appease my concerns.

I'm with MBT on this one. DeAndre is really just a younger Tyson. He's not much better, they're VERY similar players stylistically and in terms of talent, DeAndre is just hotter right now because he's younger. Monta is a HUGE loss. As big a game as Dallas likes to talk about ball movement, Carlisle's offense is so based on in the moment decision making that not having a really competent primary ball-handler is devastating. Going from Monta, who was perfect for what the Mavs did, to a replacement level PG like Lin is a big, big loss. Wes would be really good in that offense... if they had kept Monta or had another PG I felt remotely comfortable with. That's assuming Wes is 100% which is... let's just say unlikely. I suspect we're going to see a lot of Parsons playing point forward this year. He's a good passer, someone you can trust to run an offense for stretches when your primary is on the bench. But building an offense around him is... questionable. Combine that with their utter lack of depth, another year of Dirk aging and Parsons' knee surgery, and I'm not overly optimistic about this Dallas season.

San Antonio, GSW and OKC are the 1, 2 and 3 in some order. They're locks. Houston is 4th. They'll have everyone back. The Grizzlies should logically be better next year than they were this year, Wright is an overall upgrade over Koufos (even if Kosta's rim protection is really underrated) and Barnes was a steal, plus they still have the assets to go find another shooter which I think is a must. Even without DeAndre, the Clippers are head and shoulders above Dallas, especially if they can turn DeAndre into a TPE and find another center (Maybe Nene? He would open up their offense even further). That leaves two spots. The other six are, before injuries (which are a MUCH bigger question for Dallas than any of these teams except maybe OKC who has so much more talent it's hardly relevant), locks.

Why should we believe Dallas is a lock for one of those spots, or even favored? New Orleans just got a big coaching upgrade and have the best player on Earth, do you really think they're missing the playoffs after making it last year? The Jazz went 19-10 after the All-Star break with Gobert starting, all of their guys are young and improving. That's a 54-win pace. I'm much more confident in them than Dallas. That's eight teams, and that's before we even discuss Portland (still has Aldridge and assets to make moves if they want), Phoenix (should be better next year with a more settled roster, more cap space and more time for Knight and Bledsoe to gel) or breakout potential by any other team in the conference (which I find unlikely, but hey, it happens). All things considered I'm fairly confident the Mavs won't make the playoffs.

mbsalame123
07-05-2015, 03:07 AM
I'm with MBT on this one. DeAndre is really just a younger Tyson. He's not much better, they're VERY similar players stylistically and in terms of talent, DeAndre is just hotter right now because he's younger. Monta is a HUGE loss. As big a game as Dallas likes to talk about ball movement, Carlisle's offense is so based on in the moment decision making that not having a really competent primary ball-handler is devastating. Going from Monta, who was perfect for what the Mavs did, to a replacement level PG like Lin is a big, big loss. Wes would be really good in that offense... if they had kept Monta or had another PG I felt remotely comfortable with. That's assuming Wes is 100% which is... let's just say unlikely. I suspect we're going to see a lot of Parsons playing point forward this year. He's a good passer, someone you can trust to run an offense for stretches when your primary is on the bench. But building an offense around him is... questionable. Combine that with their utter lack of depth, another year of Dirk aging and Parsons' knee surgery, and I'm not overly optimistic about this Dallas season.

San Antonio, GSW and OKC are the 1, 2 and 3 in some order. They're locks. Houston is 4th. They'll have everyone back. The Grizzlies should logically be better next year than they were this year, Wright is an overall upgrade over Koufos (even if Kosta's rim protection is really underrated) and Barnes was a steal, plus they still have the assets to go find another shooter which I think is a must. Even without DeAndre, the Clippers are head and shoulders above Dallas, especially if they can turn DeAndre into a TPE and find another center (Maybe Nene? He would open up their offense even further). That leaves two spots. The other six are, before injuries (which are a MUCH bigger question for Dallas than any of these teams except maybe OKC who has so much more talent it's hardly relevant), locks.

Why should we believe Dallas is a lock for one of those spots, or even favored? New Orleans just got a big coaching upgrade and have the best player on Earth, do you really think they're missing the playoffs after making it last year? The Jazz went 19-10 after the All-Star break with Gobert starting, all of their guys are young and improving. That's a 54-win pace. I'm much more confident in them than Dallas. That's eight teams, and that's before we even discuss Portland (still has Aldridge and assets to make moves if they want), Phoenix (should be better next year with a more settled roster, more cap space and more time for Knight and Bledsoe to gel) or breakout potential by any other team in the conference (which I find unlikely, but hey, it happens). All things considered I'm fairly confident the Mavs won't make the playoffs.

I agree and people are under estimating the impact that cp3 and doc rivers have had on deandre jordan. It will be funny to see how Jordan struggles without CP3 and that system doc implemented for him. Mathews won't be the same, parsons is injury prone and the mavs don't have a bench! They don't even have the assets to get a good bench either. The clippers can sign Amare Stoudamire as their center and will be better than the Clippers.

Those 6 teams you mentioned are locks to make it and I will go out there and say the Pelicans will make it if they are healthy and the last seed will come down to the mavs, kings, and suns. Right now it is looking like the Kings could be a favorite if they are able to gel well with each other, and on paper they look like a good team capable of making the playoffs.

The mavs aren't ready to compete for the next 2 years. They got Jordan for the future but don't realize that other teams will pry the key free agents away next year after they realize the mavs have deandre jordan and a bunch of injury prone players.

mightybosstone
07-05-2015, 09:31 AM
says the rockets fan
Being a Rockets fan has absolutely nothing to do with it. I can dislike a team and still admit when they've made solid moves. I just don't think that's the case this offseason.

Lin is nothing more than a stop gap PG. He will keep the team competitive but trust me, Mavs fans know this is not the year they will contend. Next off season they will get the PG for their future and be legit contenders.
This is the correct attitude to have about this team, IMO. Dirk is probably still the team's best player, but that won't last forever. This core of Jordan, Matthews and Parsons (if it's healthy) could be an attractive group around a superstar player, but Dirk isn't that guy anymore. And without a star player to anchor that group, this just isn't a legitimate contender. If the Mavs can lure a top 10-15 caliber guy in 2016, that's what will make Dallas a contender again. Not the additions of Matthews and Jordan.

Well, DeAndre Jordan (26) is a essentially a younger, more athletic, better rebounder than Tyson Chandler (32). Even though Chandler was great, what we needed most, was those qualities, team-wise.
IMO, Chandler gives you roughly 80-90% of what Jordan gives you, plus he can make free throws. He's not quite at Jordan's level as a defender or a rebounder at this point in his career, but the gap isn't monumental or anything. And yet Jordan received nearly twice as much money as Chandler. I just don't think that's a good use of cap room.


Obviously Matthews is rehabilitating from a serious injury, but he seems to be way ahead of schedule. Only time will tell how strong he comes back, but he is EXACTLY what Dallas needed at SG. Monta played great here, but he wasn't a good defender, and he wasn't a very good 3 point shooter (28.9% to 38.9%). Matthews not only gives a legit defender and shooter to spread the floor, he will allow Parsons more opportunities (19.8 USG% to 27.9 USG%).
But Ellis was by far the Mavericks best playmaker and arguably their best scorer, and they replaced him with a guy who has topped 16 PPG only once and never topped more than 2.5 APG. Now in terms of 3-point shooting and scoring efficiency, Matthews is clearly the superior player. But he and Ellis are very different players, and Dallas hasn't exactly replaced Ellis playmaking or scoring yet. And that's BEFORE you consider the huge gamble that Matthews is coming off that Achilles injury.


Adding a guy like Lin would be perfect.

Whether or not Dallas grabs Lin or not, saying he isn't a starting caliber point guard is off. He had a 15.6 PER and was a 11.2/4.6 guy in a limited role last year. In his first year in Houston he was a 13/6 guy. Guess how many PG's were 13.4/6.1 last year. Fourteen.

To say that he isn't a starting caliber point guard just sounds salty. I think he'd be a great fit with the other starters.
It depends on your definition of "starting caliber PG." Could Lin be a starter on a bad basketball team or a team next to a great ball handling SG or SF? Sure. But this isn't that case. And the numbers you posted are not that impressive. His 15.6 PER is slightly above league average, but it was 26th most among all qualified PGs last season. Also he's a terrible defender. So can he start? Sure. But he'd easily be one of the 5-7 worst starting PGs in the league. Hell, the guy lost his starting job two years in a row to Patrick Beverley and Jordan Clarkson.

Also, you're using stats from three years ago to justify his usefulness and you failed to mention his .068 WS/48 last season, which is well below league average.

mightybosstone
07-05-2015, 09:39 AM
You don't think they have had a good offseason? Wtf could they have done better?
It's not that Dallas has had a bad offseason. It's that they just didn't have a great one for the amount of money they spent. They could have brought back Ellis and Chandler for significantly less money and been probably 90-95 percent as good on paper. Also, Matthews is a huge gamble coming off the Achilles injury and I think paying Jordan a max could end up being an overpay.

Dallas will still absolutely be in contention to make the playoffs. But unless prime Dirk somehow comes back or Parsons gets a hell of a lot better, this team isn't a serious contender in the West. And they've put A LOT of money into Parsons, Matthews and Jordan, who are all essentially No. 2 or No. 3 guys at best. Now the caveat to all of this is that the Mavs will still have cap room to add a superstar caliber player in 2016 when the cap explodes. So they could end up in a perfect situation a year from now.

But as of right now, today, color me unimpressed.

Gander13SM
07-05-2015, 09:44 AM
I'll be shocked if Dallas is a significantly better team than last season. On paper, they essentially got only slightly better at SG and C despite paying an arm and a leg for Matthews and Jordan. And now they're going after Jeremy freaking Lin? The only thing I can think of is that Parsons and Lin are still friendly from their time here in Houston. But Lin is not a starting caliber point guard in the NBA.

I know some people will say they have liked Dallas' offseason so far, and to each his own, but I haven't been a fan thus far. And adding Lin would do nothing to appease my concerns.

Lin is definitely a starting caliber point guard. He was bullied during his time in Houston and struggled to fit in that back court. But he's a very solid player.

If Beverley and Walker are starting caliber. I don't see why Lin isn't.

That being said. I don't think Dallas will be anything special. Definitely not a top 4 seed imo. But it's hard to say this early on. Who knows.

mightybosstone
07-05-2015, 09:50 AM
Lin is definitely a starting caliber point guard. He was bullied during his time in Houston and struggled to fit in that back court. But he's a very solid player.

If Beverley and Walker are starting caliber. I don't see why Lin isn't.

That being said. I don't think Dallas will be anything special. Definitely not a top 4 seed imo. But it's hard to say this early on. Who knows.

I addressed this already, but I'll state it again. Lin COULD start for a bad basketball team or on a team with a Lebron James or James Harden type wing who can take care of most of the ball handling duties. But I would not want him as my primary playmaker on a contending team. And you mention Beverley, but the only reason he starts is because Harden handles most of the ball handling duties, and because he plays excellent defense.

Lin doesn't play defense, he's a below average playmaker for the position and he's slightly below average in terms of scoring efficiency. He doesn't do anything especially well, and his numbers are indicative of a player who would be a bottom 5-7 starting PG in the league.

Gander13SM
07-05-2015, 10:16 AM
I addressed this already, but I'll state it again. Lin COULD start for a bad basketball team or on a team with a Lebron James or James Harden type wing who can take care of most of the ball handling duties. But I would not want him as my primary playmaker on a contending team. And you mention Beverley, but the only reason he starts is because Harden handles most of the ball handling duties, and because he plays excellent defense.

Lin doesn't play defense, he's a below average playmaker for the position and he's slightly below average in terms of scoring efficiency. He doesn't do anything especially well, and his numbers are indicative of a player who would be a bottom 5-7 starting PG in the league.

Okay. So you didn't actually mean "he's not starting caliber". Because he is. The only time he isn't is when you put ifs and buts everywhere.

He's a mediocre point guard. But even if he's bottom 5 out of the 30 starting point guards. He is still by definition starting caliber.

And I disagree. He does a lot of things well. He just doesn't do anything brilliantly. He's average in every facet of the game. Great at nothing in particular.

At the end of the day. I agree with most of what you're saying. But your definition of starting caliber is clearly different from mine. To me, being starting caliber means capable of starting for an NBA team. Which he clearly is. It doesn't mean being great.

Afflalo is a good example of "starting caliber" he's not great but he does his thing. And it's fine. The same with Robin Lopez.

We can't all be John Stockton.

phantasyyy
07-05-2015, 10:46 AM
DeAndre Jordan is only 26.. its like some of you guys think he has plateaued or something? He is just about to hit his prime so you never know what your going get there in terms of improvement, he did shoot 71%. He is ultra athletic and I think were going see a big big year from him in respects to proving that he's worth that contract and not a by product of CP3 and Blake. His free throws are atrocious, but Dallas has a great free throw shooting coach, so maybe he can muster up a 50% performance(probably unlikely)

Say what you will about Chandler, he is great but paying 52m(13m annually) to a 33 year old center(age when season starts) that relies on his athleticism as well is just not good financial management, and a contract that's going to be huge hindrance for the suns in 2 years. Add to the fact that Deandre was getting the max regardless of which team he is going to play for and I seriously don't see how you can see this as an improvement for them in the front court.

Now in regards to Monta Ellis, I think this is where you can point and say that this is going to be a big loss for them. 44m(11m annually) vs 52m(13m annually) for Matthews(could be wrong hard to find details with Jordan getting the max also). With the current build, anyone could tell you that Ellis > Matthews due to the Mavs lack of ball handling and penetration. But as another poster said once they get the necessary cap space to sign a long term PG, they'll be set here as well. But in Matthews(assuming injury free -which is likely given they wouldn't commit that type of money if he wasn't, and it wasn't just the Mavs willing to do so) they fill the huge 3 and D role they sorely need.

Also I don't think Monta was interested in coming back to the Mavs seeing how the ruined their great chemistry with the Rondo trade - I think he was a butt hurt over them taking the ball out of his hands

basketballkitty
07-05-2015, 10:56 AM
Lin is definitely better then anything Dallas has right now. But the problem is, do they have the money to get him ? All they have is the lower LLE right ? Just over 2 million. Gotta think Lin wants, and can get more then that from a team still.

beldugo
07-05-2015, 11:18 AM
It's not that Dallas has had a bad offseason. It's that they just didn't have a great one for the amount of money they spent. They could have brought back Ellis and Chandler for significantly less money and been probably 90-95 percent as good on paper. Also, Matthews is a huge gamble coming off the Achilles injury and I think paying Jordan a max could end up being an overpay.

Dallas will still absolutely be in contention to make the playoffs. But unless prime Dirk somehow comes back or Parsons gets a hell of a lot better, this team isn't a serious contender in the West. And they've put A LOT of money into Parsons, Matthews and Jordan, who are all essentially No. 2 or No. 3 guys at best. Now the caveat to all of this is that the Mavs will still have cap room to add a superstar caliber player in 2016 when the cap explodes. So they could end up in a perfect situation a year from now.

But as of right now, today, color me unimpressed.

let's talk about the bold part. If the Mavs do what you are suggesting they'll be doomed for the next 4 years with an aging center and a ball hogger who might make impossible to attract a star PG. Chandler is good but he's 32 now and not exactly a bulding block that will attract free agents, Jordan is more explosive, better in every facet of the game (even if it's a small edge right now) and younger, he's for sure a top 10 center in the league at age 26, Chandler isn't. Ellis is a liability on the defensive side and not an efficient scorer, asuming Matthews will be 100% at some point in 2015 or in 2016 he's a much better defender and way more efficient than Ellis, he doesn't need the ball in his hand all the time to produce value. Signing Matthews and Jordan to those contracts won't be harmful to the franchise at all, with the way the cap is going to go up in the next couple of years the Mavs will have cap space for another max player. If Dallas sign Chandler and Ellis there's no way that team would have been a true contender for the next 4 years but with Matthews and Jordan they have a chance.

hugepatsfan
07-05-2015, 11:33 AM
I'll be shocked if Dallas is a significantly better team than last season. On paper, they essentially got only slightly better at SG and C despite paying an arm and a leg for Matthews and Jordan. And now they're going after Jeremy freaking Lin? The only thing I can think of is that Parsons and Lin are still friendly from their time here in Houston. But Lin is not a starting caliber point guard in the NBA.

I know some people will say they have liked Dallas' offseason so far, and to each his own, but I haven't been a fan thus far. And adding Lin would do nothing to appease my concerns.

I don't see how you couldn't like their offseason. they got better in the short-term and are in better position long-term with a couple of core pieces in place to attract other FAs. I don't believe they're championship caliber but they look better than they did last year and seem in better position for the next 3-5 years compared to the start of FA.

Gander13SM
07-05-2015, 11:43 AM
What has surprised me is how good Chandler is at recruiting other FAs.

Aside from that Dallas fans have to accept this for what it is. Lin is a journeyman point guard who will fill the void for a couple of seasons while the transition happens. The "transition" being Dirks inevitable retirement and having to rebuild.

Fortunately instead of a full blown rebuild they have a couple of starting caliber wings in Wes and Chandler. And an atheltic shot blocker in DJ.

So they already have the role players. All they will need is the franchise guy. Basically they're acquiring assets for a trade OR to lure a high caliber free agent.

This offseason is about trying to stay relevant in a very deep West while bracing themselves for the near future.

Thumper 88
07-05-2015, 11:59 AM
I don't see how you couldn't like their offseason. they got better in the short-term and are in better position long-term with a couple of core pieces in place to attract other FAs. I don't believe they're championship caliber but they look better than they did last year and seem in better position for the next 3-5 years compared to the start of FA.

This.

Plus DJ plays 34 minutes a game while Chandler is at 27

Thumper 88
07-05-2015, 12:00 PM
Also monta, well I love the guy but you live and die by monta!

kingsdelez24
07-05-2015, 12:25 PM
Ellis leaving them only gives Parsons the freedom to play with the ball in his hands more. They won't be losing much or anything at all in that regard, especially if they get Lin

Scoots
07-05-2015, 01:05 PM
Lin was underrated then wildly overrated and now is underrated again.

flea
07-05-2015, 01:09 PM
Lin is a fine PG for a Carlisle team that still runs a few Dirk ISOs a game and has Parsons doing a lot of ballhandling. That would give them two very good p&r ballhandlers and 2 very good roll/pop men. Let's see what their depth looks like but I really doubt the Mavs miss the playoffs unless injuries become catastrophic.

Bruno
07-05-2015, 07:02 PM
I like Lin as a starter on this Dallas team.

If the Lakers are going to help out Dallas in acquiring Lin they should attempt to include Larry Nance Jr. or Anthony Brown (possibly both) and ask for Justin Anderson back. Dallas would get their starting PG and one or two young SFs who they can develop at the wing behind Parsons and the Lakers get the 3/D from the draft who they could have used most at #27, had he fallen.

Basically Lin and #27 and #34 for #21. seems pretty fair.

Blitzace137
07-05-2015, 07:17 PM
Lin was underrated then wildly overrated and now is underrated again.

Exactly he's somewhere in between now.

bleedprple&gold
07-05-2015, 07:37 PM
Exactly he's somewhere in between now.

Properly rated?

bleedprple&gold
07-05-2015, 07:39 PM
Lin is definitely better then anything Dallas has right now. But the problem is, do they have the money to get him ? All they have is the lower LLE right ? Just over 2 million. Gotta think Lin wants, and can get more then that from a team still.

No, they don't have enough, that's why they need to do a sign-and-trade with the Lakers.

vangrumpy
07-05-2015, 07:47 PM
Being a Rockets fan has absolutely nothing to do with it. I can dislike a team and still admit when they've made solid moves. I just don't think that's the case this offseason.



LOL, come on dude. You always speak in the guise of being "objective," but you're not..... your opinion always happens to be what an ardent Rocket fan would be. Which is fine. You're biased towards the Rockets---own your opinion. :D

Blitzace137
07-05-2015, 08:03 PM
Properly rated?

Not properly rated. I thought Lin would be a better player following Linsanity. Lin still shows flashes, but he's still inconsistent. He'll have stretches where he'll play great and drop 15-16 PPG and then he'll have stretches where he'll average 7PPG. But some fans act like he's a scrub b/c of the media over-exposure he recieved during Linsanity. For some reason, our society tries to tear down or find flaws when someone receives constant coverage by the media. Same thing happens to LeBron on a different level. Since Lin didn't live up to the crazy expectations following Linsanity, a lot of fans will have an I told you so mentality (and say he's a scrub) b/c he's not dropping 20/8 he was during Linsanity.

As of right now Lin is a capable starter or a solid 6th man. He averaged 14/6 when he started for the Rockets I think he can replicate those numbers. He's a good NBA player, not great but not a scrub either.

Thumper 88
07-05-2015, 08:17 PM
I like Lin as a starter on this Dallas team.

If the Lakers are going to help out Dallas in acquiring Lin they should attempt to include Larry Nance Jr. or Anthony Brown (possibly both) and ask for Justin Anderson back. Dallas would get their starting PG and one or two young SFs who they can develop at the wing behind Parsons and the Lakers get the 3/D from the draft who they could have used most at #27, had he fallen.

Basically Lin and #27 and #34 for #21. seems pretty fair.

I hope they don't do that..

G_S_W
07-05-2015, 11:24 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Lin to Dallas were a done deal by now. Likely, LAL and the Mavs are simply working out numbers so Lin can get 5-6 mil per rather than under 3.

As someone else has stated, I find it difficult to evaluate Lin. He can go on a string of good to very good games where he looks like an all star. Then, he'll go on an equally long string of games where he looks like a 3rd string PG.

It's likely he's somewhere in the middle but his wild swings in play, his consistent inconsistency makes it exasperating to try to evaluate his ceiling.

FOXHOUND
07-05-2015, 11:32 PM
Lin is talented, but his problem is he still hasn't worked enough to fix all of his glaring flaws as a player. I think that's a big reason he has those swings. The very structured PG play and free flowing PnR offense Carlisle runs could be a very good fit for him.

G_S_W
07-06-2015, 12:19 AM
LOL, come on dude. You always speak in the guise of being "objective," but you're not..... your opinion always happens to be what an ardent Rocket fan would be. Which is fine. You're biased towards the Rockets---own your opinion. :D

The pseudo-objectivity of rockets' fans on this forum is so embarrassing. Morey wanna-be's.

Pakman
07-06-2015, 12:31 AM
LOL, come on dude. You always speak in the guise of being "objective," but you're not..... your opinion always happens to be what an ardent Rocket fan would be. Which is fine. You're biased towards the Rockets---own your opinion. :D
Well said

Kashmir13579
07-06-2015, 03:14 AM
Why? He's better than most back-up PG's.blah blah still spitting knowledge

Saddletramp
07-06-2015, 03:56 AM
The pseudo-objectivity of rockets' fans on this forum is so embarrassing. Morey wanna-be's.

You're just mad because you've been wrecked and corrected a number of times and even other Warriors fans have called you terrible. Yet you never reply because you know you don't have a leg to stand on.

mightybosstone
07-06-2015, 08:27 AM
LOL, come on dude. You always speak in the guise of being "objective," but you're not..... your opinion always happens to be what an ardent Rocket fan would be. Which is fine. You're biased towards the Rockets---own your opinion. :D

What part of my assessment of the Mavericks seems "biased" to you? I'm sorry, but being "unbiased" and "objective" in the eyes of PSD is ****ing impossible. I could say a single negative thing about one of Houston's rivals, and it doesn't matter how rational it is, I'm still a homer in the eyes of the ignorant PSD masses.

Hell, you're using the sample size of a single argument as your basis for my supposed homerism. But how about asking me about some of the other offseasons in the West? San Antonio, for example, has probably had the best offseason of any team in the league by signing Aldridge, paying Leonard and still somehow keeping Green. That's a 60-win team on paper the next two years with or without Manu. Golden State managed to keep Green without a max, which was a solid move. Hell, I even like what the Lakers have done by sticking to their young core, drafting Russell (who I love as a prospect) and adding a couple of solid vets on reasonable deals in Lou Williams and Brandon Bass. But, no, because I didn't love the Mavericks acquisitions, I'm deemed biased. That seems fair.

Edit: Also I notice you have all of 107 posts over the course of eight years. How about showing some actual backbone and posting an opinion of your own once in a while? I assure you that once you start posting your opinions, you'll be deemed as biased as well at some point. To pull a page from Christopher Nolan's book, "You either die a mute, or live long enough to see yourself become a homer."

vangrumpy
07-06-2015, 09:16 AM
What part of my assessment of the Mavericks seems "biased" to you? I'm sorry, but being "unbiased" and "objective" in the eyes of PSD is ****ing impossible. I could say a single negative thing about one of Houston's rivals, and it doesn't matter how rational it is, I'm still a homer in the eyes of the ignorant PSD masses.

Hell, you're using the sample size of a single argument as your basis for my supposed homerism. But how about asking me about some of the other offseasons in the West? San Antonio, for example, has probably had the best offseason of any team in the league by signing Aldridge, paying Leonard and still somehow keeping Green. That's a 60-win team on paper the next two years with or without Manu. Golden State managed to keep Green without a max, which was a solid move. Hell, I even like what the Lakers have done by sticking to their young core, drafting Russell (who I love as a prospect) and adding a couple of solid vets on reasonable deals in Lou Williams and Brandon Bass. But, no, because I didn't love the Mavericks acquisitions, I'm deemed biased. That seems fair.

Edit: Also I notice you have all of 107 posts over the course of eight years. How about showing some actual backbone and posting an opinion of your own once in a while? I assure you that once you start posting your opinions, you'll be deemed as biased as well at some point. To pull a page from Christopher Nolan's book, "You either die a mute, or live long enough to see yourself become a homer."

Of course. You're perfectly objective. Citing your approval of San Antonio's slam dunk move definitely shows you're objective. Hey, what time's the Red Rowdies meeting?

YAALREADYKNO
07-06-2015, 09:37 AM
The Mavs have had a solid off season by getting younger and a bit better defensively but it's nothing to put them over the top. Lin will help but they're still a 6th-7th seed at best

Thumper 88
07-06-2015, 10:00 AM
Mavs got younger and more talented. How anybody thinks they have had a bad offseason is fking beyond me

jason6692
07-06-2015, 10:29 AM
They hate us cus they an-us

G_S_W
07-06-2015, 11:48 AM
What part of my assessment of the Mavericks seems "biased" to you? I'm sorry, but being "unbiased" and "objective" in the eyes of PSD is ****ing impossible. I could say a single negative thing about one of Houston's rivals, and it doesn't matter how rational it is, I'm still a homer in the eyes of the ignorant PSD masses.

Hell, you're using the sample size of a single argument as your basis for my supposed homerism. But how about asking me about some of the other offseasons in the West? San Antonio, for example, has probably had the best offseason of any team in the league by signing Aldridge, paying Leonard and still somehow keeping Green. That's a 60-win team on paper the next two years with or without Manu. Golden State managed to keep Green without a max, which was a solid move. Hell, I even like what the Lakers have done by sticking to their young core, drafting Russell (who I love as a prospect) and adding a couple of solid vets on reasonable deals in Lou Williams and Brandon Bass. But, no, because I didn't love the Mavericks acquisitions, I'm deemed biased. That seems fair.

Edit: Also I notice you have all of 107 posts over the course of eight years. How about showing some actual backbone and posting an opinion of your own once in a while? I assure you that once you start posting your opinions, you'll be deemed as biased as well at some point. To pull a page from Christopher Nolan's book, "You either die a mute, or live long enough to see yourself become a homer."

This has no bearing on whether his posts are valid or not.

G_S_W
07-06-2015, 11:52 AM
The Mavs have had a solid off season by getting younger and a bit better defensively but it's nothing to put them over the top. Lin will help but they're still a 6th-7th seed at best

True. The mavs have had a solid offseason and aren't done yet. However, in the stacked west, it's not nearly enough to put then anywhere near a top 3 seed.

The mavs did well considering the circumstances. They'll be a fun team to watch if they sign Lin, they'll be working the pnr with a lot of success.

The cap's exploding over the next few seasons, so the mavs are not in a bad situation at all. With DJ, Lin and Parsons, they'll have a solid young core, and will likely to be able to attract some solid free agent signings in the next couple of seasons.

I do find Cuban's DJ/Shaq comparison to be ridiculous, however.

Overall, Cuban has been fiscally responsible, which is a contrast to certain teams like BKYN or CLE. We'll see if his formula works.

Verbal Christ
07-06-2015, 12:19 PM
Mavs better find a better PG than Lin that will spoonfeed Jordan otherwise the bid dude is pretty much useless.

JNA17
07-06-2015, 12:23 PM
Since Mavs can't sign Lin without a sign and trade, and the fact we have zero obligation or reason to help them out...unless they give us a reason to help them that is. :D

Give us Justin Anderson, and we'll take Fat Felton off your hands to match salary. Lin then is all yours.

Let's make it happen. :cool:

KingPosey
07-06-2015, 12:45 PM
Being a Rockets fan has absolutely nothing to do with it. I can dislike a team and still admit when they've made solid moves. I just don't think that's the case this offseason.

This is the correct attitude to have about this team, IMO. Dirk is probably still the team's best player, but that won't last forever. This core of Jordan, Matthews and Parsons (if it's healthy) could be an attractive group around a superstar player, but Dirk isn't that guy anymore. And without a star player to anchor that group, this just isn't a legitimate contender. If the Mavs can lure a top 10-15 caliber guy in 2016, that's what will make Dallas a contender again. Not the additions of Matthews and Jordan.

IMO, Chandler gives you roughly 80-90% of what Jordan gives you, plus he can make free throws. He's not quite at Jordan's level as a defender or a rebounder at this point in his career, but the gap isn't monumental or anything. And yet Jordan received nearly twice as much money as Chandler. I just don't think that's a good use of cap room.


But Ellis was by far the Mavericks best playmaker and arguably their best scorer, and they replaced him with a guy who has topped 16 PPG only once and never topped more than 2.5 APG. Now in terms of 3-point shooting and scoring efficiency, Matthews is clearly the superior player. But he and Ellis are very different players, and Dallas hasn't exactly replaced Ellis playmaking or scoring yet. And that's BEFORE you consider the huge gamble that Matthews is coming off that Achilles injury.


It depends on your definition of "starting caliber PG." Could Lin be a starter on a bad basketball team or a team next to a great ball handling SG or SF? Sure. But this isn't that case. And the numbers you posted are not that impressive. His 15.6 PER is slightly above league average, but it was 26th most among all qualified PGs last season. Also he's a terrible defender. So can he start? Sure. But he'd easily be one of the 5-7 worst starting PGs in the league. Hell, the guy lost his starting job two years in a row to Patrick Beverley and Jordan Clarkson.
Also, you're using stats from three years ago to justify his usefulness and you failed to mention his .068 WS/48 last season, which is well below league average.

To be fair the reason he lost his starting role was because He needs the ball and pairing him next to ball handling SF/SG was TERRIBLE for his game, so having him come off the bench was great for him and he played well offensively. Then the following season he was a much better off ball player in catch and shoot situations.

Thumper 88
07-06-2015, 02:44 PM
Since Mavs can't sign Lin without a sign and trade, and the fact we have zero obligation or reason to help them out...unless they give us a reason to help them that is. :D

Give us Justin Anderson, and we'll take Fat Felton off your hands to match salary. Lin then is all yours.

Let's make it happen. :cool:
I hope the Mavs dont do that..

This year is a throwaway year anyway for the Mavs so no need to trade for him

Scoots
07-06-2015, 02:46 PM
What part of my assessment of the Mavericks seems "biased" to you? I'm sorry, but being "unbiased" and "objective" in the eyes of PSD is ****ing impossible. I could say a single negative thing about one of Houston's rivals, and it doesn't matter how rational it is, I'm still a homer in the eyes of the ignorant PSD masses.

Hell, you're using the sample size of a single argument as your basis for my supposed homerism. But how about asking me about some of the other offseasons in the West? San Antonio, for example, has probably had the best offseason of any team in the league by signing Aldridge, paying Leonard and still somehow keeping Green. That's a 60-win team on paper the next two years with or without Manu. Golden State managed to keep Green without a max, which was a solid move. Hell, I even like what the Lakers have done by sticking to their young core, drafting Russell (who I love as a prospect) and adding a couple of solid vets on reasonable deals in Lou Williams and Brandon Bass. But, no, because I didn't love the Mavericks acquisitions, I'm deemed biased. That seems fair.

Edit: Also I notice you have all of 107 posts over the course of eight years. How about showing some actual backbone and posting an opinion of your own once in a while? I assure you that once you start posting your opinions, you'll be deemed as biased as well at some point. To pull a page from Christopher Nolan's book, "You either die a mute, or live long enough to see yourself become a homer."

Nothing wrong with being a homer AND being objective. I'm a LONG time Warriors fan. They are the best team in the league. I can say that objectively because there is proof :) At the same time I can see and admire the moves of other teams and be critical of the moves of other teams. Doesn't mean I'm not a homer AND objective. Don't let the truth get you down, let it set you free! :)

JNA17
07-06-2015, 02:54 PM
I hope the Mavs dont do that..

This year is a throwaway year anyway for the Mavs so no need to trade for him

I don't think it's likely either, but if it's true that the Mavs are trying to sign Lin as most of the reports are indicting in a sign and trade, they have to give up something in return, otherwise Lakers just don't do it. They aren't helping the Mavs for free I can tell ya that. XD

I also read something about how in the last 10 years, only ONE player the Mavs have drafted in that time span has suited up and played for the Mavs that same year. Based on that, they probably don't have time for rookies, especially someone who is backing up Parsons anyway.

In any case, we won't find out the full details about this until July 9th. On that day, there is a report where that Roy Hibbert deal could end up being a 3 way trade between the Mavs, Pacers and Lakers. So we'll see.

TecmoB0Jackson
07-06-2015, 05:02 PM
The Lakers are set at PG, they'd dump off Lins contract in a heartbeat because he is 3rd on the depth chart

mightybosstone
07-06-2015, 05:08 PM
Of course. You're perfectly objective. Citing your approval of San Antonio's slam dunk move definitely shows you're objective. Hey, what time's the Red Rowdies meeting?
You failed to answer my question, chief. What part of my assessment was so blatantly biased? Hell, if I'm as biased as you claim I am, you should easily be able to find some other examples. When have I ever let my bias as a Rockets fan cloud my judgment as a fan of the NBA?

This has no bearing on whether his posts are valid or not.
I never said they did. I said that for someone with so few posts over such a long span, he doesn't really have a right to criticize someone for not being objective or not. If you can't even have the courage to post your own opinions from time to time, don't criticize those of us who do.

G_S_W
07-06-2015, 05:15 PM
You failed to answer my question, chief. What part of my assessment was so blatantly biased? Hell, if I'm as biased as you claim I am, you should easily be able to find some other examples. When have I ever let my bias as a Rockets fan cloud my judgment as a fan of the NBA?

I never said they did. I said that for someone with so few posts over such a long span, he doesn't really have a right to criticize someone for not being objective or not. If you can't even have the courage to post your own opinions from time to time, don't criticize those of us who do.

This is an open internet forum. No one "earns" a "right" to criticize another poster; all you have to do is register using an email address; nor are they required to post a certain number of times to state an opinion. As long as they follow forum guidelines, they are allowed to post, as frequently or infrequently as they desire.

One's desire to post or frequency of posts has nothing to do with "courage" anyway. That's a complete non sequitur.

You're just mad that he pointed out the obvious: you're a rockets homer. Everyone is biased so that's not an insult, just a statement of fact. Why do you care what someone thinks of you? They don't even know you, he's just pointing out that you're a sports fan.

This is the problem with the Morey wanna-be's. They think they know more than anyone else, are more objective than anyone else, and when this illusion is shattered (by someone you don't even know), they just go ballistic.

Why don't you follow your own advice, and just post your OPINION (which is quite different from indisputable fact) and just move on.

mightybosstone
07-06-2015, 05:40 PM
This is an open internet forum. No one "earns" a "right" to criticize another poster; all you have to do is register using an email address; nor are they required to post a certain number of times to state an opinion. As long as they follow forum guidelines, they are allowed to post, as frequently or infrequently as they desire.

One's desire to post or frequency of posts has nothing to do with "courage" anyway. That's a complete non sequitur.
Quit getting your panties in a bunch over your first amendment rights. This isn't the Supreme Court. It's an Internet sports forum. Also, you're essentially just arguing semantics. I'm simply saying it's fairly hypocritical for someone to criticize an opinion as being biased when that person doesn't even state opinions of their own.


You're just mad that he pointed out the obvious: you're a rockets homer. Everyone is biased so that's not an insult, just a statement of fact. Why do you care what someone thinks of you? They don't even know you, he's just pointing out that you're a sports fan.
I'm absolutely a fan of the Rockets, but I'm not taking offense to that. I'm taking offense to the idea that my fandom somehow makes me biased and clouds my judgement of the NBA as a whole. That's not the case. There are a lot of teams and players out there I'm not a fan of, but that doesn't mean I can't respect them or admit when they're great. Your fandom should have no bearing on objectivity when it comes to other teams.


This is the problem with the Morey wanna-be's. They think they know more than anyone else, are more objective than anyone else, and when this illusion is shattered (by someone you don't even know), they just go ballistic.
And here's where you go completely off the deep end. What do you even mean by "Morey wanna-be's?" Are you just trying to generalize all Rockets fans or just guys who like advanced stats? I have no clue why that should be an insult. Name calling is pretty weak in an Internet forum to begin with, but your insult fails to be an insult because I have no idea what the hell you're trying to say.


Why don't you follow your own advice, and just post your OPINION (which is quite different from indisputable fact) and just move on.
I do, and that's exactly what I was doing. But I don't appreciate when someone questions by objectivity, and if they're going to do so, they should be able to back it up with facts. When has my being a Rockets fan clouded my judgment about another player or team? And why is that I can't just have an opinion about a player or team without people assuming that opinion is based solely on my fandom?

If I were a fan of an Eastern Conference team and I had written what I wrote, would people question my opinion because of the team I root for? No. It's completely asinine that my being a Rockets fan should have anything to do with my opinion of other teams and their players.

mightybosstone
07-06-2015, 05:48 PM
I'm kind of done with this argument, though. We're way off topic and I've wasted way too much time trying to justify my own objectivity. If you don't believe I'm objective, that's your prerogative. You can believe that, but I assure you my fandom has no bearing on my opinion of front office moves

Back on topic, I'm really curious to see how the PG situation around the league pans out now. Lin and Mo Williams are probably the only two remotely starting caliber point guards still left on the free agent market. But I've got to think Ty Lawson, Brandon Jennings and maybe Darren Collison may all be on the trade block. It will be interesting to see who ends up where with so many teams still needing rotational point guards.

Ariza's Better
07-06-2015, 06:02 PM
This is an open internet forum. No one "earns" a "right" to criticize another poster; all you have to do is register using an email address; nor are they required to post a certain number of times to state an opinion. As long as they follow forum guidelines, they are allowed to post, as frequently or infrequently as they desire.

One's desire to post or frequency of posts has nothing to do with "courage" anyway. That's a complete non sequitur.

You're just mad that he pointed out the obvious: you're a rockets homer. Everyone is biased so that's not an insult, just a statement of fact. Why do you care what someone thinks of you? They don't even know you, he's just pointing out that you're a sports fan.

This is the problem with the Morey wanna-be's. They think they know more than anyone else, are more objective than anyone else, and when this illusion is shattered (by someone you don't even know), they just go ballistic.

Why don't you follow your own advice, and just post your OPINION (which is quite different from indisputable fact) and just move on.
Out of curiosity, what is his opinion and how is it quite different from indisputable fact? Also how is he "Morey wanna-be"?

vangrumpy
07-06-2015, 06:03 PM
You failed to answer my question, chief. What part of my assessment was so blatantly biased? Hell, if I'm as biased as you claim I am, you should easily be able to find some other examples. When have I ever let my bias as a Rockets fan cloud my judgment as a fan of the NBA?

I never said they did. I said that for someone with so few posts over such a long span, he doesn't really have a right to criticize someone for not being objective or not. If you can't even have the courage to post your own opinions from time to time, don't criticize those of us who do.

LOL, ok, there chief. That's your only comeback, post count? This is not a single isolated incident...it's a pattern you've been repeating for years. You're PSD's resident Cliff Claven. You get in here and then start engaging posters in a long winded back and forth where you pretend to be "objective," yet your opinion is driven by your clear bias. It's a total time waster. You make it sound like your opinion are "facts," when they are just your opinion from your Rocket fan perspective. Then round and round everyone goes for 7 pages where you have this chip on your shoulder of showing how smart you are (look Ma I can use google and lift items from basketball blogs). It wouldn't be so annoying if you would just be a chill dude and say it's your opinion. Instead, you have to pretend that you're so "objective" and you have to prove how smart you are for some reason. It's so fake.

G_S_W
07-06-2015, 06:14 PM
Anyone who claims to be "objective," esp. a sports fan on an anonymous internet forum is just being silly. The proposition is just so absurd it is simply impossible to defend. A dispassionate sports fanatic doesn't exist. Especially when they've posted 26,000 times.

As far as specific rockets fans, the morey wanna be's as I've already explained:

1. think they know more than anyone else
2. lay false claim to pseudo-objectivity
3. try to play moderater, or even god, levying out pseudo-bans, pseudo-warnings, and all sorts of other pseudo-gestures of non-existent internet forum powers.

You can see it in this thread: ie, other posters don't have "rights" unless they've posted 30,000 or other such nonsense.

When this delusional moderation power is questioned, they shrink back: "I'm done with this." They demand that other posters meet their "criteria" for a "qualified" poster, only to declare that they don't want to discuss the issue anymore once their own absurdity and lack of logic is exposed.

There was one "rockets fan" who tried to demand that other posters be banned, then got banned himself. You just can't make this stuff up.

Saddletramp
07-06-2015, 06:17 PM
Lol of the day goes to GSW for talking about courage in a forum.


Kudos to you for replying to Bosstone, though. That's sonething you almost always run and hide from.



Also, I find it funny that Lin gets called an awful starting caliber PG and that's gets questioned by saying:

He's a mediocre point guard. But even if he's bottom 5 out of the 30 starting point guards. He is still by definition starting caliber.

And I disagree. He does a lot of things well. He just doesn't do anything brilliantly. He's average in every facet of the game. Great at nothing in particular.

At the end of the day. I agree with most of what you're saying. But your definition of starting caliber is clearly different from mine. To me, being starting caliber means capable of starting for an NBA team. Which he clearly is. It doesn't mean being great.

Technically he's a starter.


Look, I liked Lin back in his Houston days and he might be alright in Dallas with less pressure on him after Linsanity, his big contract and then playing in LA with Kobe, but if he's your starting PG now, you'll still be looking for an upgrade. Speaking of upgrading, the Mavs have consistently had a gaping hole at that position since Kidd left. Harris, Barrea, Terry, Nelson, Rondo, Felton, now Lin and maybe another round of Terry. All are just average but Cuban still second tier guys. Didn't hurt as much with Ellis at the 2 spot but Wes isn't a ball handler like Ellis and he might just be a spot up guy exclusively after the injury.


Lotta if's with this team.

G_S_W
07-06-2015, 06:18 PM
I'm kind of done with this argument, though. We're way off topic and I've wasted way too much time trying to justify my own objectivity. If you don't believe I'm objective, that's your prerogative. You can believe that, but I assure you my fandom has no bearing on my opinion of front office moves

Back on topic, I'm really curious to see how the PG situation around the league pans out now. Lin and Mo Williams are probably the only two remotely starting caliber point guards still left on the free agent market. But I've got to think Ty Lawson, Brandon Jennings and maybe Darren Collison may all be on the trade block. It will be interesting to see who ends up where with so many teams still needing rotational point guards.

Again, where are your facts to back up your claim that Lin is not a starting caliber PG? You just spout an unsupported (obviously heavily biased) opinion as if it were self evident fact without a single shred of evidence.

Opinions are like sphincters in the sense that everyone has one, but at least the sphincters of other sports fans actually work, and something comes out.

The fact that you can't even cite a single statistical fact to support your opinion is damning in and of itself.

Don't try to change the topic and run. Stand "courageously" and support your own claim.

Saddletramp
07-06-2015, 06:26 PM
Again, where are your facts to back up your claim that Lin is not a starting caliber PG? You just spout an unsupported (obviously heavily biased) opinion as if it were self evident fact without a single shred of evidence.

Opinions are like sphincters in the sense that everyone has one, but at least the sphincters of other sports fans actually work, and something comes out.

The fact that you can't even cite a single statistical fact to support your opinion is damning in and of itself.

Don't try to change the topic and run. Stand "courageously" and support your own claim.



Hypocrite.

mightybosstone
07-06-2015, 06:38 PM
Again, where are your facts to back up your claim that Lin is not a starting caliber PG? You just spout an unsupported (obviously heavily biased) opinion as if it were self evident fact without a single shred of evidence.

The fact that you can't even cite a single statistical fact to support your opinion is damning in and of itself.
Dude, what are you talking about? Did you not see me address that point like twice already in this thread? As I've already said TWICE now, I think Lin can start on a bad basketball team or on a playoff team next to a capable ball handling wing like Lebron, Harden or Wade. But I don't think he's a competent starting point guard on a roster like the Mavericks. And I've provided numbers to back up my claim. If you want to address those numbers, you can scroll through a couple of pages and debate them, but I'm not going to bring them up again.

Saddletramp
07-06-2015, 06:41 PM
Anyone who claims to be "objective," esp. a sports fan on an anonymous internet forum is just being silly. The proposition is just so absurd it is simply impossible to defend. A dispassionate sports fanatic doesn't exist. Especially when they've posted 26,000 times.

What are you talking about? I see objectivity all the time. I see posters of one team say that they like or dislike moves from teams in the same/different division and same/different conference all the time. Get outta here with no one being able to be objective.



As far as specific rockets fans, the morey wanna be's as I've already explained:

1. think they know more than anyone else

MBT knows more than a lot of people around here, especially you. You spout off asinine stuff all the time and don't defend your stance.


2. lay false claim to pseudo-objectivity

Again, this is stupid.


3. try to play moderater, or even god, levying out pseudo-bans, pseudo-warnings, and all sorts of other pseudo-gestures of non-existent internet forum powers.

What the heck are you talking about?


You can see it in this thread: ie, other posters don't have "rights" unless they've posted 30,000 or other such nonsense.

It's easy to throw out names and criticize when you sporadically post and don't offer up your own opinions/predictions. Bosstone's been right about stuff more than you and that other guy x100. He's earned it not by post count but by being right more often than not and having the stones to post what he actually thinks. And he's objective about it.



When this delusional moderation power is questioned, they shrink back: "I'm done with this." They demand that other posters meet their "criteria" for a "qualified" poster, only to declare that they don't want to discuss the issue anymore once their own absurdity and lack of logic is exposed.

No, it's beacuse going back and forth with inane trolls like you is pointless. I should know (and if I was waiting with nothing to do for a bit, I wouldn't respond either.



There was one "rockets fan" who tried to demand that other posters be banned, then got banned himself. You just can't make this stuff up.

You might be refferring to me. You're the worst type of poster and you've shown it time and time again.

1. Talk about something you have no idea about
2. Get corrected.
3. Realize you look foolish and can't defend your stance that just got obliterated.
4. Hide.
5. Repeat.


I got banned recently for calling out a guy that just as awful as you and used a few colorful words in doing so. He, of course, ran and cried to the mods. Two totally different things.

jason6692
07-06-2015, 07:16 PM
Lol rockets fans wishing on a star that lin doesnt play well in dallas. Just because the lakers and rockets didnt use him properly while he collected ya money dont mean he wont prosper wit the mavs. We know what he is capable of doing and he is still a damn decent PG. Just got put in terrible situations. His major flaw is prob his TO pct but he can lower that. Plus did you see how many "starting caliber" Pgs he outshot from 3P range

Saddletramp
07-06-2015, 07:51 PM
Lol rockets fans wishing on a star that lin doesnt play well in dallas. Just because the lakers and rockets didnt use him properly while he collected ya money dont mean he wont prosper wit the mavs. We know what he is capable of doing and he is still a damn decent PG. Just got put in terrible situations. His major flaw is prob his TO pct but he can lower that. Plus did you see how many "starting caliber" Pgs he outshot from 3P range

I'm not wishing anything. We'll see how the move goes.

jason6692
07-06-2015, 08:33 PM
Yeah if he even ends up here it could all be speculation. And i wouldn't wanna spare our lack of assets. I doubt anderson is involved but if he is thats terrible i see potential.

Thumper 88
07-06-2015, 08:36 PM
Rocket fans trashing another thread..

At least we got a few good pages in already

Chronz
07-06-2015, 08:40 PM
Great get. Im sure everyone already mentioned the tyson,lin dynamic

blahblahyoutoo
07-06-2015, 08:45 PM
DJ didn't "shoot" 71%, he dunked 71%. that's a big difference, esp if you're called upon to create offense (which he can't) because he isn't getting dunk attempts and put backs every time down the court.


DeAndre Jordan is only 26.. its like some of you guys think he has plateaued or something? He is just about to hit his prime so you never know what your going get there in terms of improvement, he did shoot 71%. He is ultra athletic and I think were going see a big big year from him in respects to proving that he's worth that contract and not a by product of CP3 and Blake. His free throws are atrocious, but Dallas has a great free throw shooting coach, so maybe he can muster up a 50% performance(probably unlikely)

Say what you will about Chandler, he is great but paying 52m(13m annually) to a 33 year old center(age when season starts) that relies on his athleticism as well is just not good financial management, and a contract that's going to be huge hindrance for the suns in 2 years. Add to the fact that Deandre was getting the max regardless of which team he is going to play for and I seriously don't see how you can see this as an improvement for them in the front court.

Now in regards to Monta Ellis, I think this is where you can point and say that this is going to be a big loss for them. 44m(11m annually) vs 52m(13m annually) for Matthews(could be wrong hard to find details with Jordan getting the max also). With the current build, anyone could tell you that Ellis > Matthews due to the Mavs lack of ball handling and penetration. But as another poster said once they get the necessary cap space to sign a long term PG, they'll be set here as well. But in Matthews(assuming injury free -which is likely given they wouldn't commit that type of money if he wasn't, and it wasn't just the Mavs willing to do so) they fill the huge 3 and D role they sorely need.

Also I don't think Monta was interested in coming back to the Mavs seeing how the ruined their great chemistry with the Rondo trade - I think he was a butt hurt over them taking the ball out of his hands

blahblahyoutoo
07-06-2015, 08:47 PM
This.

Plus DJ plays 34 minutes a game while Chandler is at 27

i don't think anyone is arguing who is a better player at this point in time. it's the big contract (they both are over paid) for a not so big upgrade.

jason6692
07-06-2015, 08:50 PM
Lin is the best realistic option the mavs have. Thats why it makes too much sense.

blahblahyoutoo
07-06-2015, 09:00 PM
Of course. You're perfectly objective. Citing your approval of San Antonio's slam dunk move definitely shows you're objective. Hey, what time's the Red Rowdies meeting?

I dont often find myself agreeing with MBT because he does exhibit a lot of bias in his pro-Rockets posts but I'll agree with him here.
I'll be extremely shocked if Rockets make the playoffs. they're at best 7-8th seed in an extremely bunched group from 7-10.

Mr.B
07-07-2015, 12:39 AM
The Mavs have had a solid off season by getting younger and a bit better defensively but it's nothing to put them over the top. Lin will help but they're still a 6th-7th seed at best

I'm the biggest Mavs fan and I have to agree with this. In fact 6th may be a but optimistic. Fact is the DJ and Matthews signings are not so much about this year as much as they are about the next couple of years. Both Matthews and Parsons may not even be ready by the start of the season. Both may miss the entire first month of the season. And DeAndre's offensive game is going to take a while to develop.

Next off season the Mavs will make a run at another top free agent. Now that they have a core of DJ, Parsons, and Matthews they have a core that could lure one of the top free agents. Conley would be perfect for them but with Gasol agreeing to resign I don't see any way he leaves Memphis. Hortford would really be my choice (at PF) because it would also allow Dirk to come off the bench. But if they miss out on those two the will have a shot at Blake Griffin when he opts out the year after that. Having his best friend in Dallas (DJ) and Parsons as a recruiter the Mavs would actually have a legit shot at signing Blake.

G_S_W
07-07-2015, 01:06 AM
Dude, what are you talking about? Did you not see me address that point like twice already in this thread? As I've already said TWICE now, I think Lin can start on a bad basketball team or on a playoff team next to a capable ball handling wing like Lebron, Harden or Wade. But I don't think he's a competent starting point guard on a roster like the Mavericks. And I've provided numbers to back up my claim. If you want to address those numbers, you can scroll through a couple of pages and debate them, but I'm not going to bring them up again.

Yeah, you provide ABSOLUTELY NO STATISTICAL EVIDENCE OF ANY KIND in "support" of your opinion.

And no, your verbal diarrhea doesn't count as "numbers," lol.

Jayb587
07-07-2015, 01:12 AM
Lol rockets fans wishing on a star that lin doesnt play well in dallas. Just because the lakers and rockets didnt use him properly while he collected ya money dont mean he wont prosper wit the mavs. We know what he is capable of doing and he is still a damn decent PG. Just got put in terrible situations. His major flaw is prob his TO pct but he can lower that. Plus did you see how many "starting caliber" Pgs he outshot from 3P range

LOL what??? LIN is hot garbage. there is no proper way to use that trashbag.

G_S_W
07-07-2015, 02:04 AM
Rocket fans trashing another thread..

At least we got a few good pages in already

It's amazing how miserable and obsessive they are. A couple of them think they actually own the forum. They have these bizarre delusions of grandeur.

I think it's just repressed anger after watching Harden fail over and over again in the "clutch," setting TO records, or flopping on the floor like a fish during the game's last possession.

mightybosstone
07-07-2015, 08:22 AM
Yeah, you provide ABSOLUTELY NO STATISTICAL EVIDENCE OF ANY KIND in "support" of your opinion.

And no, your verbal diarrhea doesn't count as "numbers," lol.


It depends on your definition of "starting caliber PG." Could Lin be a starter on a bad basketball team or a team next to a great ball handling SG or SF? Sure. But this isn't that case. And the numbers you posted are not that impressive. His 15.6 PER is slightly above league average, but it was 26th most among all qualified PGs last season. Also he's a terrible defender. So can he start? Sure. But he'd easily be one of the 5-7 worst starting PGs in the league. Hell, the guy lost his starting job two years in a row to Patrick Beverley and Jordan Clarkson.

Also, you're using stats from three years ago to justify his usefulness and you failed to mention his .068 WS/48 last season, which is well below league average.
That was from Page 2 of the thread. But if you'd like some more numbers to suggest Lin is a poor starting PG, here's a few more:
- Lin was 22nd among all qualified PGs last season in APG and 20th in AP48
- Lin's 2.04 AST/TO ratio was good enough for 37th among all qualified PGs last season
- Lin was 26th among all qualified PGs in PPG
- Lin is a competent, but streaky 3-point shooter. He shot 36.9% last season, but his 34.9% career average would have ranked him 23rd among all qualified PGs last season.
- Lin's 110 DRtg and -1.3 DBPM are both indicative of a terrible defender, which is what Lin is.
- And all of this is before you consider his atrocious performance with the Rockets in the playoffs. In 10 career playoff games, he averaged 8.4/3.4/3.0/0.5 in 26.1 minutes on .365/.200/.833 shooting percentages. That was good enough for an 8.2 PER, a -0.029 WS/48 and a -2.8 BPM.

Say what you will about Jeremy Lin, but the guy is not a quality starting point guard in this league. He could start for a bad basketball team, but even the Lakers benched him midseason in favor of a rookie. And he could start on a team next to a competent ball-handling wing, but the Rockets have one in Harden, and even they benched him for Beverley.

The better argument isn't "Why isn't Jeremy Lin a capable starting point guard?" The better argument is "Why is he?" He's had three chances in this league to start. He got injured the first time with the Knicks after the small sample size that was Linsanity. Then he followed that up by getting benched by both Houston and the Lakers. It's possible he could thrive in Dallas, but the odds are absolutely against him at this point, and I have no reason to give him the benefit of the doubt. He seems like a nice guy, and I wish him all the best, but take it from someone who watched A LOT of Jeremy Lin as a starter: Mavericks fans will be begging for an upgrade by midseason if he signs there.

mightybosstone
07-07-2015, 08:25 AM
Rocket fans trashing another thread..

At least we got a few good pages in already


It's amazing how miserable and obsessive they are. A couple of them think they actually own the forum. They have these bizarre delusions of grandeur.

I think it's just repressed anger after watching Harden fail over and over again in the "clutch," setting TO records, or flopping on the floor like a fish during the game's last possession.

I'm trying to stay on topic here. And GSW, you're just trolling at this point. If you want to have an actual basketball discussion, we can do that. But I'm not going to respond to this nonsense. It's childish and pathetic.

Thumper 88
07-07-2015, 08:26 AM
i don't think anyone is arguing who is a better player at this point in time. it's the big contract (they both are over paid) for a not so big upgrade.

I think people are tho..

YAALREADYKNO
07-07-2015, 08:28 AM
I can see Lin averaging a decent 11 & 5 in Dallas. He's better than what the Mavs have now so ehh why not?

Thumper 88
07-07-2015, 08:29 AM
I'm the biggest Mavs fan and I have to agree with this. In fact 6th may be a but optimistic. Fact is the DJ and Matthews signings are not so much about this year as much as they are about the next couple of years. Both Matthews and Parsons may not even be ready by the start of the season. Both may miss the entire first month of the season. And DeAndre's offensive game is going to take a while to develop.

Next off season the Mavs will make a run at another top free agent. Now that they have a core of DJ, Parsons, and Matthews they have a core that could lure one of the top free agents. Conley would be perfect for them but with Gasol agreeing to resign I don't see any way he leaves Memphis. Hortford would really be my choice (at PF) because it would also allow Dirk to come off the bench. But if they miss out on those two the will have a shot at Blake Griffin when he opts out the year after that. Having his best friend in Dallas (DJ) and Parsons as a recruiter the Mavs would actually have a legit shot at signing Blake.

Parsons has been friends with Griffen since age 12..

You better believe Mavs will have a chance for him.

This is one of the early early early rumors

mightybosstone
07-07-2015, 08:38 AM
I think people are tho..
Who? I haven't seen anyone in this thread suggest Chandler is a better player. I just don't think Jordan is so much better that he deserved 35 percent more money on a four-year contract. They both provide essentially the same assets as players: solid defense, rebounding and hyper efficient scoring around the basket. Jordan is younger, more athletic, a better rebounder and a slightly better defender. Chandler can make a free throw, but it doesn't make up for Jordan's other advantages.

But does that make Jordan worth $28 million more, or $7 million more per season? For me, it doesn't. But it did for Cuban and the Mavericks, so we'll see how this thing plays out. :shrug:

Thumper 88
07-07-2015, 10:09 AM
Who?

They both provide essentially the same assets as players: solid defense, rebounding and hyper efficient scoring around the basket.

Jordan is a better rebounder and a slightly better defender.



I could be mistaken but it was all over the DJ leaving the clippers thread.

Da fk did you just say? You just contradicted yourself on that. lol

gatkins11
07-07-2015, 10:15 AM
I like Lin as a starter on this Dallas team.

If the Lakers are going to help out Dallas in acquiring Lin they should attempt to include Larry Nance Jr. or Anthony Brown (possibly both) and ask for Justin Anderson back. Dallas would get their starting PG and one or two young SFs who they can develop at the wing behind Parsons and the Lakers get the 3/D from the draft who they could have used most at #27, had he fallen.

Basically Lin and #27 and #34 for #21. seems pretty fair.

Not going to happen.

Mr.B
07-07-2015, 10:27 AM
Not going to happen.

Carlisle is really high on Anderson. In a 3-way trade with the Pacers the Mavs all teams would really be helping each other out equally.

gatkins11
07-07-2015, 10:33 AM
Who? I haven't seen anyone in this thread suggest Chandler is a better player. I just don't think Jordan is so much better that he deserved 35 percent more money on a four-year contract. They both provide essentially the same assets as players: solid defense, rebounding and hyper efficient scoring around the basket. Jordan is younger, more athletic, a better rebounder and a slightly better defender. Chandler can make a free throw, but it doesn't make up for Jordan's other advantages.

But does that make Jordan worth $28 million more, or $7 million more per season? For me, it doesn't. But it did for Cuban and the Mavericks, so we'll see how this thing plays out. :shrug:

Considering DJ is six years younger than Tyson, I think that alone is worth it. Tyson has been in the league for a while and it's only a matter of time until he falls of completely. Phoenix's training staff will do a good job, as always, of maximizing his time there. They're comparable players in a lot of aspects and I think DJ will be a good fit in Dallas.

Off topic: Houston had a heck of a draft, btw. I think you all did a great job.

Mr.B
07-07-2015, 10:36 AM
Considering DJ is six years younger than Tyson, I think that alone is worth it. Tyson has been in the league for a while and it's only a matter of time until he falls of completely. Phoenix's training staff will do a good job, as always, of maximizing his time there. They're comparable players in a lot of aspects and I think DJ will be a good fit in Dallas.

Off topic: Houston had a heck of a draft, btw. I think you all did a great job.

I think the key for Tyson to stay healthy will be his minutes. Suns coaching staff needs to limit him to about 25 min a game.

mightybosstone
07-07-2015, 10:48 AM
I could be mistaken but it was all over the DJ leaving the clippers thread.

Da fk did you just say? You just contradicted yourself on that. lol
How did I contradict myself? I just said both guys have the same strengths, but Jordan is a slight better defender and rebounder. In what way is that a contradiction?

Also, I didn't read that thread. So if people have said that Chandler is a better basketball player than Jordan at this point in his career, then I would disagree with that assessment.

mightybosstone
07-07-2015, 11:06 AM
Considering DJ is six years younger than Tyson, I think that alone is worth it. Tyson has been in the league for a while and it's only a matter of time until he falls of completely. Phoenix's training staff will do a good job, as always, of maximizing his time there. They're comparable players in a lot of aspects and I think DJ will be a good fit in Dallas.
That's fair. And I think most people (myself included) are looking at Dallas' offseason in terms of next season. But if you look at it for the long-term, Cuban has done a pretty good job of setting his team up for success the next 5-7 years. And from that standpoint, obviously Jordan is a huge upgrade from Chandler and probably worth the overpay. The real question mark will be Matthews and how he recovers from that Achilles injury. That deal will either look like a huge steal in a couple of years or a huge bust, but it was a gamble somebody was going to take.


Off topic: Houston had a heck of a draft, btw. I think you all did a great job.
Thank you, sir. I'm hoping Dekker can provide similar production to what Parsons provided the Rockets in a couple of years. I think the Parsons to Ariza switch has made Houston a much better defensive team, but they really missed his scoring and playmaking in the playoffs.

MickeyMgl
07-07-2015, 11:43 AM
The Lakers are set at PG, they'd dump off Lins contract in a heartbeat because he is 3rd on the depth chart

There is no contract for them to dump. That's why it's called a sign-n-trade.

Saddletramp
07-07-2015, 02:29 PM
Parsons has been friends with Griffen since age 12..

You better believe Mavs will have a chance for him.

This is one of the early early early rumors

This right here is another thing Cuban has on his mind and is worth upgrading with Jordan even if the money isn't worth the upgrade.

I've also heard Parsons plans to opt out next year for a new contract and I assume he'll sign long term in Dallas, then again, he was happy as could be in Houston until he got his first chance to leave.

Thumper 88
07-07-2015, 03:45 PM
This right here is another thing Cuban has on his mind and is worth upgrading with Jordan even if the money isn't worth the upgrade.

I've also heard Parsons plans to opt out next year for a new contract and I assume he'll sign long term in Dallas, then again, he was happy as could be in Houston until he got his first chance to leave.

This from what I've read is Parsons plan and Cuban & Co are going with it (as they should be).

The final decision on Parsons leaving wasn't his to make tho..

Saddletramp
07-07-2015, 06:19 PM
This from what I've read is Parsons plan and Cuban & Co are going with it (as they should be).

The final decision on Parsons leaving wasn't his to make tho..

With that deal, it kinda was. He better hope he plays great this year or he'll be forced to opt in and then he better hope he plays great next year.


Also, this Mavs team has the potential to be awful and no one great might want to sign with them next year or they can show a lot of promise and land a guy like Blake and then be a consensus favorite for years to come. It's all if Parsons can play better, if DJ can make the transistion to the next level and if Matthews recovers to what he used to be. Dirk is only going to regress and Lin is what he is at this point. Still time to make some moves, though.

Thumper 88
07-07-2015, 08:02 PM
With that deal, it kinda was. He better hope he plays great this year or he'll be forced to opt in and then he better hope he plays great next year.


Also, this Mavs team has the potential to be awful and no one great might want to sign with them next year or they can show a lot of promise and land a guy like Blake and then be a consensus favorite for years to come. It's all if Parsons can play better, if DJ can make the transistion to the next level and if Matthews recovers to what he used to be. Dirk is only going to regress and Lin is what he is at this point. Still time to make some moves, though.

I agree, this team will be an unknown until proven otherwise.

KingPosey
07-12-2015, 04:05 AM
That was from Page 2 of the thread. But if you'd like some more numbers to suggest Lin is a poor starting PG, here's a few more:
- Lin was 22nd among all qualified PGs last season in APG and 20th in AP48
- Lin's 2.04 AST/TO ratio was good enough for 37th among all qualified PGs last season
- Lin was 26th among all qualified PGs in PPG
- Lin is a competent, but streaky 3-point shooter. He shot 36.9% last season, but his 34.9% career average would have ranked him 23rd among all qualified PGs last season.
- Lin's 110 DRtg and -1.3 DBPM are both indicative of a terrible defender, which is what Lin is.
- And all of this is before you consider his atrocious performance with the Rockets in the playoffs. In 10 career playoff games, he averaged 8.4/3.4/3.0/0.5 in 26.1 minutes on .365/.200/.833 shooting percentages. That was good enough for an 8.2 PER, a -0.029 WS/48 and a -2.8 BPM.

Say what you will about Jeremy Lin, but the guy is not a quality starting point guard in this league. He could start for a bad basketball team, but even the Lakers benched him midseason in favor of a rookie. And he could start on a team next to a competent ball-handling wing, but the Rockets have one in Harden, and even they benched him for Beverley.

The better argument isn't "Why isn't Jeremy Lin a capable starting point guard?" The better argument is "Why is he?" He's had three chances in this league to start. He got injured the first time with the Knicks after the small sample size that was Linsanity. Then he followed that up by getting benched by both Houston and the Lakers. It's possible he could thrive in Dallas, but the odds are absolutely against him at this point, and I have no reason to give him the benefit of the doubt. He seems like a nice guy, and I wish him all the best, but take it from someone who watched A LOT of Jeremy Lin as a starter: Mavericks fans will be begging for an upgrade by midseason if he signs there.

i don't care about the rockets, Jeremy Lin, the Mavericks, etc. But this is a terrible post. You cherry picked stats with absolutely no context and spun them. The post could be picked apart pretty easily. I will say there is no argument about Lins defense though, he's not a strong defender.

Saddletramp
07-12-2015, 12:41 PM
i don't care about the rockets, Jeremy Lin, the Mavericks, etc. But this is a terrible post. You cherry picked stats with absolutely no context and spun them. The post could be picked apart pretty easily. I will say there is no argument about Lins defense though, he's not a strong defender.

Pick it apart then.

Thumper 88
07-13-2015, 10:12 AM
Dallas is better with D-Will than Lin.