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View Full Version : Knicks Quietly building a good off-season



FriedTofuz
07-03-2015, 03:18 AM
Grant
Afflalo
Melo
Zinger
Lopez

Lopez and Afflalo should help out a lot on the D and I think these players fit the triangle well and compliment melo, wouldnt shock me to see them in the playoffs.

xxplayerxx23
07-03-2015, 03:27 AM
How if this guy allowed to make bait thread after bait thread seriously it's insane

FYL_McVeezy
07-03-2015, 03:28 AM
In be4 the inevitable troll comments....

Not mad at anyone we didn't land so far. Wanted Monroe but he's no one to cry over. Us NYers are always looking for the quick instant fix, but sometimes a slow burn is necessary(in this case we don't have a choice no one wants to come here at the moment :laugh2:). Looks like we should improve defensively. Still need some more scoring to take the pressure off of Melo....

I would explore a trade for D.Lee....he would be good in the triangle, good fit next to a rim protector like Lopez, allows us to bring Zinger along slowly(20-25 mins off the bench), expiring deal so it wouldn't eat into 2016 cap. We need to win a few more games next season to gain some respectability and become a more desirable destination next season...

ROY 2 MVP Braun
07-03-2015, 03:35 AM
How if this guy allowed to make bait thread after bait thread seriously it's insane

Overall though, yeah the Knicks didn't get the #1/2 pick in the draft but still managed to walk out with 2 good players. 1 of which has scary potential. Than as far as free agency I don't think it mattered who they got in free agency they wouldn't have been top 4 In The east and been threats to represent the east In The finals. So they tried to build their team and why they didn't get one of the top free agents they added 2 very solid vets that can come in and start day 1 and are an upgrade over what they started at SG and C last year. They did that while not screwing up their cap space for next year's class of free agents.

So it may be a bait thread but I agree with the idea behind it if genuine.

ROY 2 MVP Braun
07-03-2015, 03:39 AM
How if this guy allowed to make bait thread after bait thread seriously it's insane

Don't agree with his comment about the playoffs though. That could be trolling I guess.
For them to make the post season this year Zing and Grant would both have to come in and be amazing which I don't see happening.
If both rookies finish in the top 4 for ROY I could maybe see them fighting I'm that 8 to 10 range but that's just not likely to happen

thomass
07-03-2015, 03:41 AM
Lol!

bucketss
07-03-2015, 04:11 AM
am i missing something? it doesn't seem like a troll thread to me.

TheNumber37
07-03-2015, 04:21 AM
Top post season moves for Knicks.

1. Trade THJR for Jerian Grant... (2013 24th pick for 2015 19th pick)

2. Sign Afflalo 2 years 16 million, player option for second year. He gets like a half a mil raise from last year, elevates his name on a big stage and can opt in next year or cash out on new value. He has reason to play well this year.

3. Get Robin Lopez to commit. Really needed a rim protector and they will get one.

4. Draft Prozingis



Phil needs to acquire some of what PHX is trying to dump. Morris, PJ Tucker please

xxplayerxx23
07-03-2015, 04:41 AM
am i missing something? it doesn't seem like a troll thread to me.


Go read his post in the Knicks forum, then come back here

xxplayerxx23
07-03-2015, 04:43 AM
Overall though, yeah the Knicks didn't get the #1/2 pick in the draft but still managed to walk out with 2 good players. 1 of which has scary potential. Than as far as free agency I don't think it mattered who they got in free agency they wouldn't have been top 4 In The east and been threats to represent the east In The finals. So they tried to build their team and why they didn't get one of the top free agents they added 2 very solid vets that can come in and start day 1 and are an upgrade over what they started at SG and C last year. They did that while not screwing up their cap space for next year's class of free agents.

So it may be a bait thread but I agree with the idea behind it if genuine.

They traded Hardaway for grant looks like a win on paper who knows how he will go. Affalo was a nice cheap get, zinger has potential, Lopez is a good defensive center I think they are improved clearly but this guy just trolled the Knicks forum saying they might get 27 wins now but ESPN will low ball them with 25 is what he said then 16 mins later this dude posts this it's garbage, he's been trying to bait knick fans since he got here. I also read a rumor that the Knicks could sign and trade for Affalo which would open up cap space so we can still add another piece or two, if we got rid of Jose we could def get a nice couple pieces of won't be a contender but if they can add another piece or two they can make the playoffs

ROY 2 MVP Braun
07-03-2015, 05:09 AM
Overall though, yeah the Knicks didn't get the #1/2 pick in the draft but still managed to walk out with 2 good players. 1 of which has scary potential. Than as far as free agency I don't think it mattered who they got in free agency they wouldn't have been top 4 In The east and been threats to represent the east In The finals. So they tried to build their team and why they didn't get one of the top free agents they added 2 very solid vets that can come in and start day 1 and are an upgrade over what they started at SG and C last year. They did that while not screwing up their cap space for next year's class of free agents.

So it may be a bait thread but I agree with the idea behind it if genuine.

They traded Hardaway for grant looks like a win on paper who knows how he will go. Affalo was a nice cheap get, zinger has potential, Lopez is a good defensive center I think they are improved clearly but this guy just trolled the Knicks forum saying they might get 27 wins now but ESPN will low ball them with 25 is what he said then 16 mins later this dude posts this it's garbage, he's been trying to bait knick fans since he got here. I also read a rumor that the Knicks could sign and trade for Affalo which would open up cap space so we can still add another piece or two, if we got rid of Jose we could def get a nice couple pieces of won't be a contender but if they can add another piece or two they can make the playoffs

Yeah I think that should be the goal to add as many good players as possible as long as it don't mess up the cap to sign a top tier free agent next offseason. If you guys add enough pieces to make or be fighting for the playoffs this year than it will be easier to bring in that 1 top level free agent. Have him buy into the fact that there is already a good solid team trending in the right direction and that said free agent will be the piece to put the Knicks In The top tier of the East. That's all players can ask for is be in the top 3/4 teams in the east and top 5/6 teams in the west with having a legit chance to be able to rep that conference In The finals!
So overall I'd say it's been successful off season so far. Hopefully the keep adding talent than get a top level Free Agent next offseason giving the team a chance at winning the east and if Grant/Zing learn the system and start to fulfil their potential within 2/3 years. That would be a quick rebuild to go from worst to contender for conference finals in 2/3 years.

xxplayerxx23
07-03-2015, 05:16 AM
Yeah I think that should be the goal to add as many good players as possible as long as it don't mess up the cap to sign a top tier free agent next offseason. If you guys add enough pieces to make or be fighting for the playoffs this year than it will be easier to bring in that 1 top level free agent. Have him buy into the fact that there is already a good solid team trending in the right direction and that said free agent will be the piece to put the Knicks In The top tier of the East. That's all players can ask for is be in the top 3/4 teams in the east and top 5/6 teams in the west with having a legit chance to be able to rep that conference In The finals!
So overall I'd say it's been successful off season so far. Hopefully the keep adding talent than get a top level Free Agent next offseason giving the team a chance at winning the east and if Grant/Zing learn the system and start to fulfil their potential within 2/3 years. That would be a quick rebuild to go from worst to contender for conference finals in 2/3 years.


Yeah no doubt. Maybe we can add some more talent this year get 40 wins maybe get a 7-8 seed then the rookies improve and hopefully add more talent the next year. Hopefully we can add a scorer for melo

FraziersKnicks
07-03-2015, 05:32 AM
Just because we haven't made a BIG name signing doesn't mean we've struck out :laugh2:

We needed everything this offseason and it made so much more sense to get some good role players on board instead of throwing all our money at Kevin Love or LMA.

We've added shooting and defense on the wings with Afflalo. A defensive big man who can hit his free throws and give you 10-12 points and 8-9 rebounds any given night. A huge upside stretch 4 who's 19 and has good defensive potential. And managed to swap THJR for a lottery pick.

Add to that we still have about $8m to spend. If we can get Patrick Beverly for that this team will be looking fine going forward.

PG: Patrick Beverly/Jerian Grant
SG: Arron Afflalo/Jose Calderon
SF: Carmelo Anthony/Cleanthony Early
PF: Kristaps Porzingis/Quincy Acy
C: Robin Lopez/Jason Smith

That's a good mix of defense and shooting. Offensively a bit bare but that kinda depends on what Zinger can provide in his rookie year. If he can give you 13/7 the Knicks should be fine.

With the cap going up next year and the Knicks having another $20M+ to work with, that team looks a lot more fleshed out than this year. If you can add some serious scoring and if Zinger takes the necessary steps forward, with all the FA's having a years experience in the triangle and gelling together, we should be in good shape.

Adding a AAA free agent wouldn't have addressed all the problems this roster has. Phil has actually been very wise in his free agent signings, picking high character, team first players. Suddenly, after a solid season, the Knicks won't be the laughing stock of the NBA and will have a solid balanced team with more cap room, and still oke of the most desirable markets in the league.

I much prefer this method of free agency that waiting for Love or Aldridge or Gasol to not sign for us then throwing all our money at a bigger name like Rondo or Tobias Harris which would help nothing... Which seems to be the Lakers method.

ROY 2 MVP Braun
07-03-2015, 05:55 AM
[QUOTE=ROY 2 MVP Braun;30129258]

Yeah no doubt. Maybe we can add some more talent this year get 40 wins maybe get a 7-8 seed then the rookies improve and hopefully add more talent the next year. Hopefully we can add a scorer for melo
Might not even need a scorer depending on what Zing is able to provide points wise. That guy can shoot the ball if nothing else.
I think Calderon/AA/Melo/Zing/Lopez is a decent starting lineup. If you can improve the starting lineup in free agency than do it if the price is right. Otherwise I think they could really use some help off the bench.

GiantsSwaGG
07-03-2015, 06:19 AM
with lopez, the knicks should win at least 10 more games... for a total of 27 games next season. Watch ESPN lowball and say the knicks will only win 25 games.

Ayo Cali he couldn't wait :laugh:

GiantsSwaGG
07-03-2015, 06:21 AM
am i missing something? it doesn't seem like a troll thread to me.


with lopez, the knicks should win at least 10 more games... for a total of 27 games next season. Watch ESPN lowball and say the knicks will only win 25 games.

That's what he posted in the Knicks forum

IKnowHoops
07-03-2015, 06:41 AM
They traded Hardaway for grant looks like a win on paper who knows how he will go. Affalo was a nice cheap get, zinger has potential, Lopez is a good defensive center I think they are improved clearly but this guy just trolled the Knicks forum saying they might get 27 wins now but ESPN will low ball them with 25 is what he said then 16 mins later this dude posts this it's garbage, he's been trying to bait knick fans since he got here. I also read a rumor that the Knicks could sign and trade for Affalo which would open up cap space so we can still add another piece or two, if we got rid of Jose we could def get a nice couple pieces of won't be a contender but if they can add another piece or two they can make the playoffs

Funny Stuff

Nycbball08
07-03-2015, 06:44 AM
Just because we haven't made a BIG name signing doesn't mean we've struck out :laugh2:

We needed everything this offseason and it made so much more sense to get some good role players on board instead of throwing all our money at Kevin Love or LMA.

We've added shooting and defense on the wings with Afflalo. A defensive big man who can hit his free throws and give you 10-12 points and 8-9 rebounds any given night. A huge upside stretch 4 who's 19 and has good defensive potential. And managed to swap THJR for a lottery pick.

Add to that we still have about $8m to spend. If we can get Patrick Beverly for that this team will be looking fine going forward.

PG: Patrick Beverly/Jerian Grant
SG: Arron Afflalo/Jose Calderon
SF: Carmelo Anthony/Cleanthony Early
PF: Kristaps Porzingis/Quincy Acy
C: Robin Lopez/Jason Smith

That's a good mix of defense and shooting. Offensively a bit bare but that kinda depends on what Zinger can provide in his rookie year. If he can give you 13/7 the Knicks should be fine.

With the cap going up next year and the Knicks having another $20M+ to work with, that team looks a lot more fleshed out than this year. If you can add some serious scoring and if Zinger takes the necessary steps forward, with all the FA's having a years experience in the triangle and gelling together, we should be in good shape.

Adding a AAA free agent wouldn't have addressed all the problems this roster has. Phil has actually been very wise in his free agent signings, picking high character, team first players. Suddenly, after a solid season, the Knicks won't be the laughing stock of the NBA and will have a solid balanced team with more cap room, and still oke of the most desirable markets in the league.

I much prefer this method of free agency that waiting for Love or Aldridge or Gasol to not sign for us then throwing all our money at a bigger name like Rondo or Tobias Harris which would help nothing... Which seems to be the Lakers method.

Well said,:clap:

IKnowHoops
07-03-2015, 06:46 AM
If coached right, and if the players play basketball the way it should be played this team should be decent. Put it this way. Switch Bron in for Carmelo, and this team is in the Eastern conference finals if they have no injuries.

omdigga
07-03-2015, 07:11 AM
Knicks definitely looking nicer than the raptors now.

NYKnickFanatic
07-03-2015, 07:11 AM
OP says he wouldn't be shocked if we make the playoffs. In other threads:


13th in the east. 30 wins.

Definitely not a bait thread though lol?

deaner
07-03-2015, 08:22 AM
Knicks definitely looking nicer than the raptors now.

oh gosh... it's last year all over again... it will start with our point guard is better than Lowry and go down hill from there...

pebloemer
07-03-2015, 08:40 AM
OP says he wouldn't be shocked if we make the playoffs. In other threads:

Definitely not a bait thread though lol?

I saw who created the thread and I immediately assumed such.

It is nice when PSD is a medium for great basketball discussion. It is a shame that it is often a wasteland for attention seekers.

warfelg
07-03-2015, 08:44 AM
Good news for the Knicks:

If the signings result in a 10-15 pick (aka NBA purgatory), it doesn't terribly hurt you because that pick was traded anyways. And that's a solid move. Why completely suck when the pick isn't totally yours?

The Bad news for the Knicks:

This team isn't good enough to make the playoffs IMO, and if they do its a quick 1st round exit. Which is bad, because it will almost force them to go back to the FA well and try to get better that way.

The middle road for the Knicks:

This season ends up being enough to make fans "happy", but they maintain the flexibility to get better, and they don't give out a great pick that becomes a superstar.

NYKnickFanatic
07-03-2015, 08:45 AM
I saw who created the thread and I immediately assumed such.

It is nice when PSD is a medium for great basketball discussion. It is a shame that it is often a wasteland for attention seekers.

It is what it is, what can you do?

GrkGawdofWalkz
07-03-2015, 08:50 AM
Lottery team! Good luck thinking otherwise. Knicks fans are so daft.

nysportsfan23
07-03-2015, 08:53 AM
Without a true second option, the Knicks will be horrible

xxplayerxx23
07-03-2015, 08:53 AM
Good news for the Knicks:

If the signings result in a 10-15 pick (aka NBA purgatory), it doesn't terribly hurt you because that pick was traded anyways. And that's a solid move. Why completely suck when the pick isn't totally yours?

The Bad news for the Knicks:

This team isn't good enough to make the playoffs IMO, and if they do its a quick 1st round exit. Which is bad, because it will almost force them to go back to the FA well and try to get better that way.

The middle road for the Knicks:

This season ends up being enough to make fans "happy", but they maintain the flexibility to get better, and they don't give out a great pick that becomes a superstar.

Well they do have a high potential PF that should contuine to improve also grant and a bunch of young guys off the bench. They may or may not make the playoffs but they def have some young talent on the roster

North Yorker
07-03-2015, 08:54 AM
Wouldn't it make sense to trade Melo at this point? They're not going anywhere this year from the looks of it. Trade for some young guys that have a chance to fit well in the triangle and get some draft picks instead of trading them all away.

deaner
07-03-2015, 09:01 AM
I does suck that the year they strip it down and get cap space is the year that Free Agent dollars go crazy. In a normal year they would have accomplished much more. I'll chalk it up to Karma for tanking.

warfelg
07-03-2015, 09:02 AM
Well they do have a high potential PF that should contuine to improve also grant and a bunch of young guys off the bench. They may or may not make the playoffs but they def have some young talent on the roster

I really only see Porzingis and Grant as two potential starting parts moving forward. So there is some young potential, but it's not a lot and it's not the greatest yet.

ewing
07-03-2015, 09:07 AM
Lopez is the hypotenuse, AA will play adjacent, Melo is base. I don't see how it doesn't work

pebloemer
07-03-2015, 09:08 AM
It is what it is, what can you do?

PSD needs to improve its ignore function IMO.

I don't want to see that someone I have ignored posted something. Just wastes space on my screen

I also don't want to see the responses people have to the person I ignore. Then what they are writing leaks through anyways.

2-ONE-5
07-03-2015, 09:10 AM
Grant
Afflalo
Melo
Zinger
Lopez

Lopez and Afflalo should help out a lot on the D and I think these players fit the triangle well and compliment melo, wouldnt shock me to see them in the playoffs.

thats like a 35 win team.

FraziersKnicks
07-03-2015, 09:10 AM
People also forget Melo only played 40 games last season. So we're basically adding 42 extra games of a top 15 player in the league, Porzingis, Lopez, Afflalo, Grant plus whatever we do with our remaining cap room AND a years experience in the triangle.

If that's not worth an extra 20 wins (37-38 wins gets you in the playoffs) in the weak East then I will be amazed.

GrkGawdofWalkz
07-03-2015, 09:15 AM
A rookie PG, a defensive only big, and Arron Afflalo and this is a playoff team. Toronto, Washington, Chicago, Cleveland, Charlotte, Miami, Atlanta, Boston, Indiana potentially all have better rosters.

FraziersKnicks
07-03-2015, 09:54 AM
A rookie PG, a defensive only big, and Arron Afflalo and this is a playoff team. Toronto, Washington, Chicago, Cleveland, Charlotte, Miami, Atlanta, Boston, Indiana potentially all have better rosters.

Boston, Indiana and Charlotte are all highly debatable. I can see the Knicks fighting with those 3 for the 7th and 8th seed.

As long as the Knicks can make the playoffs, it's progress towards the next season when we'll have cap room and be an even more enticing destination for free agents. We don't have a pick next year anyway so fighting for the 8th seed isn't as bad as it would've been this season.

xxplayerxx23
07-03-2015, 10:06 AM
Good news for the Knicks:

If the signings result in a 10-15 pick (aka NBA purgatory), it doesn't terribly hurt you because that pick was traded anyways. And that's a solid move. Why completely suck when the pick isn't totally yours?

The Bad news for the Knicks:

This team isn't good enough to make the playoffs IMO, and if they do its a quick 1st round exit. Which is bad, because it will almost force them to go back to the FA well and try to get better that way.

The middle road for the Knicks:

This season ends up being enough to make fans "happy", but they maintain the flexibility to get better, and they don't give out a great pick that becomes a superstar.

Well they do have a high potential PF that should contuine to improve also grant and a bunch of young guys off the bench. They may or may not make the playoffs but they def have some young talent on the roster

BKLYNpigeon
07-03-2015, 10:09 AM
I would say they're are having a SMART offseason.

after missing out on the top Free Agents, the old Knicks regime would have offered Max deals to second tier players like, Greg Monroe, Amare, and Joe Johnson. lol.


They got great value on Robin Lopez and Affalo. They're being patient not signing long deals. They should get Patrick Beverly and David Lee and I think hey have a shot at the 6-8th spot in the East.


The Knicks look like they actually have a plan...

nobody has had a worse offseason then the Kings. lol.

FOXHOUND
07-03-2015, 10:14 AM
Boston, Indiana and Charlotte are all highly debatable. I can see the Knicks fighting with those 3 for the 7th and 8th seed.

As long as the Knicks can make the playoffs, it's progress towards the next season when we'll have cap room and be an even more enticing destination for free agents. We don't have a pick next year anyway so fighting for the 8th seed isn't as bad as it would've been this season.

Yup, I agree. Indiana also isn't done, it appears they may dump Hibbert at some point this offseason depending on how the chips fall. David West is going to be a huge loss for them, can't underestimate the loss of leadership and he was their heart and soul.

nycericanguy
07-03-2015, 10:25 AM
lol at this thread...

Domefavors is gone, someone had to take his place right?

To this day i still don't get why there are 4-5 TOR posters so obsessed with the Knicks even though we suck...

KnicksorBust
07-03-2015, 10:25 AM
The most important thing to me is that Kristaps Porzingis gets starter minutes this season. If that means Afflalo and Lopez are the biggest signings as role players then I am fine with it. It is not ideal but Afflalo is only a 2 year deal and will probably opt out after 1. If we get Lopez he will at least make us a better defensive team which is what I have wanted all offseason.

The problem that everyone seems to realize is that Carmelo doesn't fit on this team. With the way the draft and offseason played out it becomes increasingly a better decision to put Melo on the trade block. Either way let Zinger play!!!!!

FraziersKnicks
07-03-2015, 10:29 AM
The most important thing to me is that Kristaps Porzingis gets starter minutes this season. If that means Afflalo and Lopez are the biggest signings as role players then I am fine with it. It is not ideal but Afflalo is only a 2 year deal and will probably opt out after 1. If we get Lopez he will at least make us a better defensive team which is what I have wanted all offseason.

The problem that everyone seems to realize is that Carmelo doesn't fit on this team. With the way the draft and offseason played out it becomes increasingly a better decision to put Melo on the trade block. Either way let Zinger play!!!!!

I completely agree with Zinger's minutes. Would love to see him playing 25-30 minutes at the start of the season and then seeing that jump to 30+ after the All-Star break.

No better way to get acclimatised to the league!

FYL_McVeezy
07-03-2015, 10:40 AM
lol at this thread...

Domefavors is gone, someone had to take his place right?

To this day i still don't get why there are 4-5 TOR posters so obsessed with the Knicks even though we suck...

inferiority complex because PP owns their soul in the playoffs :shrug:

Most Knick fans with brains know that we suck...and we only got marginally better on paper so far(30 wins) don't understand the need to troll so that's my guess haha

Shammyguy3
07-03-2015, 11:49 AM
The most important thing to me is that Kristaps Porzingis gets starter minutes this season. If that means Afflalo and Lopez are the biggest signings as role players then I am fine with it. It is not ideal but Afflalo is only a 2 year deal and will probably opt out after 1. If we get Lopez he will at least make us a better defensive team which is what I have wanted all offseason.

The problem that everyone seems to realize is that Carmelo doesn't fit on this team. With the way the draft and offseason played out it becomes increasingly a better decision to put Melo on the trade block. Either way let Zinger play!!!!!

what team do you think would take Melo though

Jamiecballer
07-03-2015, 11:51 AM
How if this guy allowed to make bait thread after bait thread seriously it's insane
he baits all the time but what about this says bait to you?

aman_13
07-03-2015, 12:07 PM
The Knicks are having a good off season thus far.

cgjcgjk
07-03-2015, 12:09 PM
How if this guy allowed to make bait thread after bait thread seriously it's insane http://healthlifeok.com/green/images/44.gifhttp://healthlifeok.com/green/images/63.gif

KnicksorBust
07-03-2015, 12:12 PM
what team do you think would take Melo though

I don't know what team would want him. Probably very few with coming off injury but I think he could help teams like:

Charlotte
Dallas
Detroit
Houston
Indiana
Orlando
Phoenix

TylerSL
07-03-2015, 12:13 PM
The Knicks can probably win around 30 games next season.

nycericanguy
07-03-2015, 12:16 PM
If Knicks can take David Lee then that would salvage the offseason.

Lopez, Lee, Afflalo isn't too bad and they are actually all a good fit around Melo.

Lee can still give you 16-18ppg I think.

Lopez
Lee/KP
Melo
Affalo
JC/Grant

FOXHOUND
07-03-2015, 12:16 PM
I don't know what team would want him. Probably very few with coming off injury but I think he could help teams like:

Charlotte
Dallas
Detroit
Houston
Indiana
Orlando
Phoenix

Melo has a NTC, he's not going anywhere unless he demands a trade. In that scenario, the Knicks zero leverage and him coming off an injury will leave them with nothing. Best scenario is still keeping Melo, cap space doesn't expire. A strong season by him, a show of respectability by the team with better players and proof of concept that Derek Fisher's triangle with Melo in New York can work will make the Knicks much more desirable next free agency.

FOXHOUND
07-03-2015, 12:19 PM
If Knicks can take David Lee then that would salvage the offseason.

Lopez, Lee, Afflalo isn't too bad and they are actually all a good fit around Melo.

Lee can still give you 16-18ppg I think.

Lopez
Lee/KP
Melo
Affalo
JC/Grant

I think Lee would come over and put up 18-20, 10-12, 3-5 and be efficient right away, no problem. He would be the second option and his skillset is perfect for the triangle. But, can't get both Lee and Robin Lopez.

nycericanguy
07-03-2015, 12:21 PM
I think Lee would come over and put up 18-20, 10-12, 3-5 and be efficient right away, no problem. He would be the second option and his skillset is perfect for the triangle. But, can't get both Lee and Robin Lopez.

they can... cap projected to go to $69m this year... and with a trade for Lee you don't have to send back EXACT salary, only within 150% for non tax teams like NY... so the knicks would need 10.5m in cap to trade for Lee.

Right now they have about 10.7m left over after the Lopez/Afflalo deals.

FOXHOUND
07-03-2015, 12:27 PM
they can... cap projected to go to $69m this year... and with a trade for Lee you don't have to send back EXACT salary, only within 150% for non tax teams like NY... so the knicks would need 10.5m in cap to trade for Lee.

Right now they have about 10.7m left over after the Lopez/Afflalo deals.

Lopez's deal isn't done, we don't know the money yet. Reports are saying $12-13M, but maybe it will be less than reported like Afflalo's ended up being.

nycericanguy
07-03-2015, 12:29 PM
Lopez's deal isn't done, we don't know the money yet. Reports are saying $12-13M, but maybe it will be less than reported like Afflalo's ended up being.

yup, just basing it off the 4/50m figure that is being thrown out there... unless it's like $15m, Knicks should be able to squeeze in Lee. If it's less than 4/50m then all the better for NY.

TrueFan420
07-03-2015, 12:39 PM
If Knicks can take David Lee then that would salvage the offseason.

Lopez, Lee, Afflalo isn't too bad and they are actually all a good fit around Melo.

Lee can still give you 16-18ppg I think.

Lopez
Lee/KP
Melo
Affalo
JC/Grant

Lee can still give you close to 20-10 and he'd fit great next Lopez. Only thing is you'd have to take him without giving us back a bad contract or us giving up picks.

nycericanguy
07-03-2015, 12:41 PM
Lee can still give you close to 20-10 and he'd fit great next Lopez. Only thing is you'd have to take him without giving us back a bad contract or us giving up picks.

I would love if NY could get Looney attached to Lee... but if not, I think Knicks would take Lee alone to salvage the offseason.

hugepatsfan
07-03-2015, 12:50 PM
I like what the Knicks are doing. The only question I have is how Melo fits. From a team perspective I like that they're being patient and keeping their options open for real impact moves rather than overrated ones to hold the fans over. However, I'm not sure having a 31 year old Melo makes sense if you're being patient. But it could all turnaround as quick as next offseason though so you never know. Overall though they're just not backing themselves into any corners which I think is great.

setman2000
07-03-2015, 12:52 PM
The Knicks wanted to swing for the fences in FA and they got 2 doubles instead. Nice role players but not NEARLY enough to make a significant difference considering the lack of talent on this team. Phil was supposed to be a difference maker in FA and earn that $12 million a year, what a joke. The Nuggets will enjoy getting your top 5 draft pick next year!

North Yorker
07-03-2015, 12:56 PM
I like what the Knicks are doing. The only question I have is how Melo fits. From a team perspective I like that they're being patient and keeping their options open for real impact moves rather than overrated ones to hold the fans over. However, I'm not sure having a 31 year old Melo makes sense if you're being patient. But it could all turnaround as quick as next offseason though so you never know. Overall though they're just not backing themselves into any corners which I think is great.

I don't get how they are any more appealing to FAs next offseason than they were this offseason.

No draft pick.
Melo another year older.
95% of teams will have max cap space to offer.
Probably coming off another season missing the playoffs.

At least if you trade Melo you get young assets back to build for the future. He's ready to win now, his teammates aren't though.

hugepatsfan
07-03-2015, 01:04 PM
I don't get how they are any more appealing to FAs next offseason than they were this offseason.

No draft pick.
Melo another year older.
95% of teams will have max cap space to offer.
Probably coming off another season missing the playoffs.

At least if you trade Melo you get young assets back to build for the future. He's ready to win now, his teammates aren't though.

Those are fair concerns and it's fair to wonder if they should trade Melo. In general I just like what they've done in the sense that they seem to be trying to build towards a title rather than just put together the best roster they can. Those are sometimes conflicting goals. If you lock yourself into lower level guys, you'll be better in the short-term but for the long-term you can be stuck being not good enough to win a title. Sometimes it's better to just keep options open and not be as good short-term but have the flexibility to get as good as you need to be in the long-term.

I think for this season they should focus on 1) the development of their 1st round picks and 2) building a culture of competitiveness. They might not be good but they have to establish a culture of playing the game the right way and just competing as hard as they can. With all due respect, the franchise seems like a joke right now. They might not be great but they have to try and establish a group of 5-6 players that a FA next year can look at and say "yeah, if we go there and add to that we'll have a good rotation."

I would give free agency another run next year but if they strike out again, I would look to move Melo.

FraziersKnicks
07-03-2015, 02:37 PM
The Knicks wanted to swing for the fences in FA and they got 2 doubles instead. Nice role players but not NEARLY enough to make a significant difference considering the lack of talent on this team. Phil was supposed to be a difference maker in FA and earn that $12 million a year, what a joke. The Nuggets will enjoy getting your top 5 draft pick next year!

Terrible analagy... 2 doubles scores you the same as a home run :laugh2:

GiantsSwaGG
07-03-2015, 02:41 PM
Terrible analagy... 2 doubles scores you the same as a home run :laugh2:

:laugh:

KnicksorBust
07-03-2015, 04:45 PM
I like what the Knicks are doing. The only question I have is how Melo fits. From a team perspective I like that they're being patient and keeping their options open for real impact moves rather than overrated ones to hold the fans over. However, I'm not sure having a 31 year old Melo makes sense if you're being patient. But it could all turnaround as quick as next offseason though so you never know. Overall though they're just not backing themselves into any corners which I think is great.

I don't get how they are any more appealing to FAs next offseason than they were this offseason.

No draft pick.
Melo another year older.
95% of teams will have max cap space to offer.
Probably coming off another season missing the playoffs.

At least if you trade Melo you get young assets back to build for the future. He's ready to win now, his teammates aren't though.

To me the hope is very simple. Either one of (or both) Calderon and Jerian Grant prove to be a capable PG. Afflalo plays solid d, scores in the teens and hits 40% from 3pt. Melo bounces back from injury and looks like he did 2-3 seasons ago. Robin Lopez plays like he did with Aldridge 2 seasons ago and improves the Knicks defense from embarassing to passable. And most importantly Porzingis shows that he could be a future star. If ALL of those things happen the Knicks could be a 45 win team and make the playoffs. Then next offseason that actually looks like a decent starting 5 and a top FA could theoretically be sold on being the missing piece. It is definitely a stretch but possible. Porzingis is the most important part of that whole scenario. On the bright side Lopez is a great fit to play with him and allows him to start as a natural 4.

North Yorker
07-03-2015, 05:08 PM
To me the hope is very simple. Either one of (or both) Calderon and Jerian Grant prove to be a capable PG. Afflalo plays solid d, scores in the teens and hits 40% from 3pt. Melo bounces back from injury and looks like he did 2-3 seasons ago. Robin Lopez plays like he did with Aldridge 2 seasons ago and improves the Knicks defense from embarassing to passable. And most importantly Porzingis shows that he could be a future star. If ALL of those things happen the Knicks could be a 45 win team and make the playoffs. Then next offseason that actually looks like a decent starting 5 and a top FA could theoretically be sold on being the missing piece. It is definitely a stretch but possible. Porzingis is the most important part of that whole scenario. On the bright side Lopez is a great fit to play with him and allows him to start as a natural 4.

Lack of depth usually kills most of the non-playoff teams every year, and I don't see the Knicks being the exception unless they get really lucky.

And I think it is really unfair to put those types of expectations on a skinny 19 year old rookie PF from Europe. He hasn't even grown into his own body yet and will be in frequent foul trouble if he's guarding opposing PFs on post-ups. Absolute best case scenario is he puts up a Mirotic type of season but he is 5 years older and a lot more mature as a player than Porzingis. He also had the luxury of coming off the bench and playing vs opposing benches, vs starting Porzingis right out of the gate as you're suggesting.

IDunknown
07-03-2015, 05:19 PM
Terrible analagy... 2 doubles scores you the same as a home run :laugh2:

D'oh

nycericanguy
07-03-2015, 05:36 PM
Lack of depth usually kills most of the non-playoff teams every year, and I don't see the Knicks being the exception unless they get really lucky.

And I think it is really unfair to put those types of expectations on a skinny 19 year old rookie PF from Europe. He hasn't even grown into his own body yet and will be in frequent foul trouble if he's guarding opposing PFs on post-ups. Absolute best case scenario is he puts up a Mirotic type of season but he is 5 years older and a lot more mature as a player than Porzingis. He also had the luxury of coming off the bench and playing vs opposing benches, vs starting Porzingis right out of the gate as you're suggesting.

why is that his best case scenario?...lol.

Pau gasol was 19 years old and a soaking wet 227 lbs and came in and put up 19/8/4/2 his rookie year...

KP is already 230, he could be 235 by start of season.

Most of these euro guys like Pau, Dirk, Gallo, Bargs... they all came in and contributed right away. Maybe not at a star level, but he should be able to play 20-25mpg of solid basketball.

JasonJohnHorn
07-03-2015, 05:36 PM
Meh... if they trade Melo and get something significant back in return, they might have a shot.

A 19th pick and a 19-year-old Euro player who, like Darko, never really played against Americans? Doesn't sound promising. Sure... there are lots of great guys who come from Europe, Gasol, Gasol, Dirk, and even Calderon (among many, many others), but most of them were older when they came in, and had experience against American teams in the Olympics. The only guy I can think of who was that young and ended up being great was Tony Parker, but he was playing in a Euro system under Pop, had the best player development coaches in the league, AND it took him several seasons to get to the All-Star level.

Sure, I could be WAY off and this guy could come in looking like prime Dirk in his first season, but a best-case/realistic scenario is he looks like Bargnani did last year with a slightly better stroke. As for Grant... there is good reason to expect that he will be NBA ready as a rookie, given that he's played FIVE YEARS in college and is older than every other rookie (and likely every sophomore as well and most third-year players), but he didn't come out after his first full season, or second full season, for a reason. I'm hopeful.... but making the Knicks a playoff team?

LanceUpperCut
07-03-2015, 05:51 PM
To me the hope is very simple. Either one of (or both) Calderon and Jerian Grant prove to be a capable PG. Afflalo plays solid d, scores in the teens and hits 40% from 3pt. Melo bounces back from injury and looks like he did 2-3 seasons ago. Robin Lopez plays like he did with Aldridge 2 seasons ago and improves the Knicks defense from embarassing to passable. And most importantly Porzingis shows that he could be a future star. If ALL of those things happen the Knicks could be a 45 win team and make the playoffs. Then next offseason that actually looks like a decent starting 5 and a top FA could theoretically be sold on being the missing piece. It is definitely a stretch but possible. Porzingis is the most important part of that whole scenario. On the bright side Lopez is a great fit to play with him and allows him to start as a natural 4.

That's a lot of ifs to be a 40-45 win team.

KnicksorBust
07-03-2015, 05:52 PM
Meh... if they trade Melo and get something significant back in return, they might have a shot.

A 19th pick and a 19-year-old Euro player who, like Darko, never really played against Americans? Doesn't sound promising. Sure... there are lots of great guys who come from Europe, Gasol, Gasol, Dirk, and even Calderon (among many, many others), but most of them were older when they came in, and had experience against American teams in the Olympics. The only guy I can think of who was that young and ended up being great was Tony Parker, but he was playing in a Euro system under Pop, had the best player development coaches in the league, AND it took him several seasons to get to the All-Star level.

Sure, I could be WAY off and this guy could come in looking like prime Dirk in his first season, but a best-case/realistic scenario is he looks like Bargnani did last year with a slightly better stroke. As for Grant... there is good reason to expect that he will be NBA ready as a rookie, given that he's played FIVE YEARS in college and is older than every other rookie (and likely every sophomore as well and most third-year players), but he didn't come out after his first full season, or second full season, for a reason. I'm hopeful.... but making the Knicks a playoff team?

Answer me this.

Do you know where Darko played before coming to America? Do you know where Porzingis played before coming to America?

KnicksorBust
07-03-2015, 05:53 PM
To me the hope is very simple. Either one of (or both) Calderon and Jerian Grant prove to be a capable PG. Afflalo plays solid d, scores in the teens and hits 40% from 3pt. Melo bounces back from injury and looks like he did 2-3 seasons ago. Robin Lopez plays like he did with Aldridge 2 seasons ago and improves the Knicks defense from embarassing to passable. And most importantly Porzingis shows that he could be a future star. If ALL of those things happen the Knicks could be a 45 win team and make the playoffs. Then next offseason that actually looks like a decent starting 5 and a top FA could theoretically be sold on being the missing piece. It is definitely a stretch but possible. Porzingis is the most important part of that whole scenario. On the bright side Lopez is a great fit to play with him and allows him to start as a natural 4.

Lack of depth usually kills most of the non-playoff teams every year, and I don't see the Knicks being the exception unless they get really lucky.

And I think it is really unfair to put those types of expectations on a skinny 19 year old rookie PF from Europe. He hasn't even grown into his own body yet and will be in frequent foul trouble if he's guarding opposing PFs on post-ups. Absolute best case scenario is he puts up a Mirotic type of season but he is 5 years older and a lot more mature as a player than Porzingis. He also had the luxury of coming off the bench and playing vs opposing benches, vs starting Porzingis right out of the gate as you're suggesting.

Read Nycericanguys post.

North Yorker
07-03-2015, 06:20 PM
why is that his best case scenario?...lol.

Pau gasol was 19 years old and a soaking wet 227 lbs and came in and put up 19/8/4/2 his rookie year...

KP is already 230, he could be 235 by start of season.

Most of these euro guys like Pau, Dirk, Gallo, Bargs... they all came in and contributed right away. Maybe not at a star level, but he should be able to play 20-25mpg of solid basketball.

Lol.

Dirk shot 40% and averaged 8 pts, 3 rebs
Bargs got 11 and 4
Gallo barely played.
Pau played 37 mins per game and is the clear exception instead of the rule. It was like Rap fans expecting Bargs to be the next Dirk.
As I said, unfair expectations to start him out of the gate and expect him to be a star.

Mirotic had a very good season in case you didn't know. Knick fans should be ecstatic if he can replicate that.

setman2000
07-03-2015, 06:21 PM
$12 million a yr GM for Afflalo and the wrong Lopez brother and the sheep think they're going to make the playoffs - Hilarious!

nycericanguy
07-03-2015, 07:27 PM
Lol.

Dirk shot 40% and averaged 8 pts, 3 rebs
Bargs got 11 and 4
Gallo barely played.
Pau played 37 mins per game and is the clear exception instead of the rule. It was like Rap fans expecting Bargs to be the next Dirk.
As I said, unfair expectations to start him out of the gate and expect him to be a star.

Mirotic had a very good season in case you didn't know. Knick fans should be ecstatic if he can replicate that.

Gallo didn't play because he had surgery, his 2nd year (which was really his rookie year) he came in and averaged 15ppg.

Bargs averaged 11 & 4... is that bad now?

11 & 4 with better defense is about what I think KP will do...

Point is all those guys were immediate 20mpg+ rotation players, and Dirk was a star by his 2nd year.

Mirotic was solid, but to say that's "KP's ABSOLUTE best case scenario"? really? based on what? because you said so? Please, truth is no one knows what this kid will do.

FriedTofuz
07-03-2015, 07:34 PM
I like how I get accused for baiting all the time and everyone keeps my threads going, please. if it were baiting ,it wouldnt be going anywhere. I was thinking the Knicks wouldve signed Beverly or even rondo to help out defensively but they werent able to get them in time and still need bench pieces if the playoff picture is possible.

hugepatsfan
07-03-2015, 07:36 PM
The East standings last year were:

ATL
CLE
CHI
TOR
WAS
MIL
BOS
BRK

IND
MIA
DET
CHA
DET
ORL
PHI
NYK

I just have a hard time thinking that the Knicks have done enough to move all the way up to the playoffs. Nothing is impossible, but that's not something I would predict to happen on paper going in.

GiantsSwaGG
07-03-2015, 08:03 PM
The East standings last year were:

ATL
CLE
CHI
TOR
WAS
MIL
BOS
BRK

IND
MIA
DET
CHA
DET
ORL
PHI
NYK

I just have a hard time thinking that the Knicks have done enough to move all the way up to the playoffs. Nothing is impossible, but that's not something I would predict to happen on paper going in.

I don't expect us to make the playoffs, but I like the plan, develop Prigz and start getting quality role players/glue guys. We still have 10 mil to play with reports are we're looking for a young athletic wing which leaves me to believe Melo will be playing the 4 where he belongs. 2016 is where Phil either is a genius or a dud

FriedTofuz
07-03-2015, 08:06 PM
I don't expect us to make the playoffs, but I like the plan, develop Prigz and start getting quality role players/glue guys. We still have 10 mil to play with reports are we're looking for a young athletic wing which leaves me to believe Melo will be playing the 4 where he belongs. 2016 is where Phil either is a genius or a dud

what seed would you place the knicks at ?

GiantsSwaGG
07-03-2015, 08:08 PM
what seed would you place the knicks at ?

10th, 9th if we stay healthy but still won't make the playoffs

limebalz05
07-03-2015, 08:10 PM
It's the Eastern Conference for we're talking about. I can be 10 games under .500 n still make playoffs

warfelg
07-03-2015, 08:12 PM
How bad was the east? The Sixers were 4 games out of the 8 seed.

east fb knicks
07-03-2015, 08:43 PM
If we get d lee we will end up with a better record then the raps book it lopez is very underrated

Cal827
07-03-2015, 08:43 PM
Ayo Cali he couldn't wait :laugh:

:laugh2: IT BEGINS.


I'd just like to start off by saying that it was a pleasure to talk to some of you guys.... cause I'd probably put it at around 70% that someone gets banned for a long time

AI
07-03-2015, 08:44 PM
The East standings last year were:

ATL
CLE
CHI
TOR
WAS
MIL
BOS
BRK

IND
MIA
DET
CHA
DET
ORL
PHI
NYK

I just have a hard time thinking that the Knicks have done enough to move all the way up to the playoffs. Nothing is impossible, but that's not something I would predict to happen on paper going in.

Well, I'm sure having Melo/Calderon/Porzingis/Afflalo/RoLo playing instead of Lance Thomas/Larkin/Amundson/Galloway/Smith will significantly help out.

Cal827
07-03-2015, 08:45 PM
I like how I get accused for baiting all the time and everyone keeps my threads going, please. if it were baiting ,it wouldnt be going anywhere. I was thinking the Knicks wouldve signed Beverly or even rondo to help out defensively but they werent able to get them in time and still need bench pieces if the playoff picture is possible.

To be fair, I could go make a thread about whether Lebron James should be the next in line to replace Mandingo, and we'd probably get about 1000 posts if the Mods aren't cranky :laugh2:

Just need to know who or what fanbase to ignite a response in.

Cal827
07-03-2015, 08:51 PM
But I do like their moves. Lopez and Afflolo are solid pick ups, who can play defense, which could reduce the amount of exposure that Melo gets on that side of the court (help D). If they stay healthy, I can see the Knicks maybe fight for a lower seed, but still doubtful.... Although Brooklyn and Boston might fall out, Miami and Indiana would've been there instead, if it weren't for freak injuries.

They also aren't paying up the *** for either of them, apparently. We payed 15 mil per season for a guy who, while being a good defender, has only proven it recently. It's more than what the Knicks payed for two fairly proven defensive players. Now, the team should have a decent enough roster, and will probably aim very big in 2016, as they'll have the cap space, and a foundation.

Next year should go to prove, if other stars have issue playing alongside Carmelo.

Sanjay
07-03-2015, 08:54 PM
The East standings last year were:

ATL
CLE
CHI
TOR
WAS
MIL
BOS
BRK

IND
MIA
DET
CHA
DET
ORL
PHI
NYK

I just have a hard time thinking that the Knicks have done enough to move all the way up to the playoffs. Nothing is impossible, but that's not something I would predict to happen on paper going in.

I think the Bucks (although they were impressive in the playoffs for a young team with a new second-year coach), Celtics (again a young team with the youngest coach in the league) and the Nets were lucky to make the playoffs and could fall out this season. The Pacers will be better with George back, the Pistons will be able to start where they left off last year (without Smith), I was surprised the Heat did not make it last season, I know Bosh had the blood clot, but even before that they were struggling. With Dragic and Wade re-signing, I expect them to be back in the post-season. Afflalo and Lopez will form a nice 'big 3' with Anthony (defense, rim protection and scoring) and could make the playoffs along with two of these other teams.

JasonJohnHorn
07-03-2015, 09:06 PM
Answer me this.

Do you know where Darko played before coming to America? Do you know where Porzingis played before coming to America?

Look... you're a Knicks fan... I get it. I want this kid to be good to, but it's not like I'm the only person making the Darko comparison (not that their styles of game are that similar and Porzi's defence isn't nearly as good as Darko's).


Do I know where he played? Do I know where Darko played? I'll tell you where they didn't play: The NCAA.

It's not 1992. Guys are coming in at 19-years of age; not 22, or 23, or 24. They aren't mature enough to play like an All-Star in their rookie year. To expect a Euro player who doesn't have experience in the American system to make a huge impact his rookie year is not reasonable. Period. Did he work with the same coach as Gasol and Gasol? YES!! But as I mentioned, both of those players entered the league at a much later age. Pau was 21 (two years olders) AND he was a much better defender, rebounder, and passer. Marc Gasol didn't come over until he was 24 and he was drafted in the second round at the same age as Porzi. And Porzi's percentages were much lower than Gasol in the Euro play. Also, though some might point to the fact that he had the same coach as Gasol, the coach is also the guy that worked with Rubio, who has been a bust.

As to Grant....to expect a point guard who wasn't good enough to come out after his freshman year(s) to be a huge player isn't reasonable. Yes, it does happen, but not often because if they have all-star potential, they'll be out after their second year at the latest.


I'm just being a realist. Could Prozi develop into a all-star? Sure. Not saying he won't. Should anybody expect him to look like Dirk or Pau in his rookie season? No. The more reasonable expectation is that he'll look something like Bargnani. As for Grant, while he could end up being like another four-year point guard in Lillard, I don't think that's a fair expectation. He's a solid passer and shooter, so he's got some potential, but don't count on too much.

Crackadalic
07-03-2015, 10:21 PM
Look... you're a Knicks fan... I get it. I want this kid to be good to, but it's not like I'm the only person making the Darko comparison (not that their styles of game are that similar and Porzi's defence isn't nearly as good as Darko's).


Do I know where he played? Do I know where Darko played? I'll tell you where they didn't play: The NCAA.

It's not 1992. Guys are coming in at 19-years of age; not 22, or 23, or 24. They aren't mature enough to play like an All-Star in their rookie year. To expect a Euro player who doesn't have experience in the American system to make a huge impact his rookie year is not reasonable. Period. Did he work with the same coach as Gasol and Gasol? YES!! But as I mentioned, both of those players entered the league at a much later age. Pau was 21 (two years olders) AND he was a much better defender, rebounder, and passer. Marc Gasol didn't come over until he was 24 and he was drafted in the second round at the same age as Porzi. And Porzi's percentages were much lower than Gasol in the Euro play. Also, though some might point to the fact that he had the same coach as Gasol, the coach is also the guy that worked with Rubio, who has been a bust.

As to Grant....to expect a point guard who wasn't good enough to come out after his freshman year(s) to be a huge player isn't reasonable. Yes, it does happen, but not often because if they have all-star potential, they'll be out after their second year at the latest.


I'm just being a realist. Could Prozi develop into a all-star? Sure. Not saying he won't. Should anybody expect him to look like Dirk or Pau in his rookie season? No. The more reasonable expectation is that he'll look something like Bargnani. As for Grant, while he could end up being like another four-year point guard in Lillard, I don't think that's a fair expectation. He's a solid passer and shooter, so he's got some potential, but don't count on too much.

NCAA is nowhere near the competition as some of these international leagues so idk what your point is. Not saying I disagree about your opinion on Kris but still

hugepatsfan
07-03-2015, 10:32 PM
Well, I'm sure having Melo/Calderon/Porzingis/Afflalo/RoLo playing instead of Lance Thomas/Larkin/Amundson/Galloway/Smith will significantly help out.

It will for sure. But it's not like the other teams above them haven't improved. Look at it team by team starting with BOS at #7 (since I think the top 6 are solidly ahead of the pack still)

BOS won 40 games last year for the 7 seed but with all the roster turnover they had nothing they did before the trade deadline is relevant for predicting the future. After the trade deadline they went 20-11 which over a full season is a 53 win pace. I don't think they would keep that up but the point is that if they returned the same team they would be better than the 40 wins they ended up with because they got better after their moves. They brought back everyone except upgraded from Bass to Amir Johnson. They also have young guys that project to be better this year than they were last year.

BRK gets a full year of Thad Young and their own Lopez coming back from injury. That's going to make them more formidable on paper.

IND lost West but added Ellis and have George returning to health. That's an improved roster.

MIA will be getting Bosh back and added a very good player in Winslow through the draft. That's going to make them significantly better.

CHA ditched Lance who did nothing for them last year and added Batum through trade and drafted Frank the tank.

DET lost Monroe but he wasn't really a perfect fit for them anyway. I think adding Morris from PHX at SF and Ilyasova at PF will make them better because the pieces fit better.

ORL didn't make any additions but they are full of young players that should improve. PHI has young players who should get better too. I think NY has jumped these two teams though.

So while NY is improved, I don't see any of the top 6 seeds in the East falling back and I just have a hard time thinking that the Knicks improved enough that 2 of the 7-13 seeds from last year won't still be better than them. Stranger things have happened, but I think predicting playoffs is very unrealistic at this point. Not impossible, just not what logic dictates. Teams defy logic every year so we'll see.

GiantsSwaGG
07-03-2015, 10:42 PM
We're not making the playoffs

0nekhmer
07-03-2015, 11:54 PM
If we get d lee we will end up with a better record then the raps book it lopez is very underrated

Poor Knicks. Even if you make the playoffs, it will be for nothing. If you tank, Raptors get your pick :)

Tony_Starks
07-04-2015, 12:10 AM
If that's good what is horrible?

setman2000
07-04-2015, 12:22 AM
...and you just paid draft bust Derrick Williams $5 million/yr. Phil is a genius!

NYKnickFanatic
07-04-2015, 12:32 AM
If that's good what is horrible?

Lakers

yasharel
07-04-2015, 12:51 AM
The knicks will win 19 games

Blitzace137
07-04-2015, 01:01 AM
If that's good what is horrible?

Lakers

Cal827
07-04-2015, 01:03 AM
If that's good what is horrible?

Lakers

smood999
07-04-2015, 01:03 AM
NCAA is nowhere near the competition as some of these international leagues so idk what your point is. Not saying I disagree about your opinion on Kris but still

It's a different style of play and a different level of speed and athleticism. Yes college ball is the inferior league, but the adjustments and the issued more so have to do with the differences in play and overall athleticism. It goes both ways as far as an American playing international ball. There's still an adjustment. Brandon Jennings, for example, couldn't get off the bench and averaged single digit points, but somehow was able to drop 55 points a month into his NBA career.

Tony_Starks
07-04-2015, 01:08 AM
If that's good what is horrible?

Lakers

2 lotto picks and Kobe vs 1 euro lotto pick and Melo?

Ehh......

bucketss
07-04-2015, 01:09 AM
How bad was the east? The Sixers were 4 games out of the 8 seed.

thats kind of impossible considering the 8th seed won 20 more games than philly.

KMP211
07-04-2015, 01:36 AM
derrick williams isn't completely horrible, but he also doesn't get enough crap for being a gigantic bust. man.

ROY 2 MVP Braun
07-04-2015, 03:16 AM
The East standings last year were:

ATL
CLE
CHI
TOR
WAS
MIL
BOS
BRK

IND
MIA
DET
CHA
DET
ORL
PHI
NYK

I just have a hard time thinking that the Knicks have done enough to move all the way up to the playoffs. Nothing is impossible, but that's not something I would predict to happen on paper going in.

I think the Bucks (although they were impressive in the playoffs for a young team with a new second-year coach), Celtics (again a young team with the youngest coach in the league) and the Nets were lucky to make the playoffs and could fall out this season. The Pacers will be better with George back, the Pistons will be able to start where they left off last year (without Smith), I was surprised the Heat did not make it last season, I know Bosh had the blood clot, but even before that they were struggling. With Dragic and Wade re-signing, I expect them to be back in the post-season. Afflalo and Lopez will form a nice 'big 3' with Anthony (defense, rim protection and scoring) and could make the playoffs along with two of these other teams.
Why do you see the bucks missing the playoffs? They have Jabari and Monroe replacing Ilyasova and Zaza In The starting line up. As well as improved their bench. Add in the fact that MCW has a full offseason to learn Kidd's system and Giannas and Middleton improving every year there is no reason that they shouldn't at worst duplicate last season, but everything points to them being much improved!

sep11ie
07-04-2015, 03:52 AM
I think they are having a pretty good off-season, but kinda by accident. LMA, Gasol, Brewer, Beverly, Jordan and I think Ellis and Matthews all declined offers/expressed they weren't interested. At least they didn't panic and try to bring Eddy Curry out of retirement.

sep11ie
07-04-2015, 04:06 AM
I think they are having a pretty good off-season, but kinda by accident. LMA, Gasol, Brewer, Beverly, Jordan and I think Ellis and Matthews all declined offers/expressed they weren't interested. At least they didn't panic and try to bring Eddy Curry out of retirement.

xxplayerxx23
07-04-2015, 06:35 AM
I think they are having a pretty good off-season, but kinda by accident. LMA, Gasol, Brewer, Beverly, Jordan and I think Ellis and Matthews all declined offers/expressed they weren't interested. At least they didn't panic and try to bring Eddy Curry out of retirement.


I don't think we even offered Ellis Wes of brewer I know we talked to them but don't think we threw out an offer. Bev I don't think either but I get your point

xxplayerxx23
07-04-2015, 06:40 AM
2 lotto picks and Kobe vs 1 euro lotto pick and Melo?

Ehh......

Melo >Kobe
Russel+Randle >zinger now
Affalo+Lopez > every other laker

Offseason isn't over but I'd say the Knicks are having a much better offseason then the lakers

JMKnick33
07-04-2015, 08:21 AM
Poor Knicks. Even if you make the playoffs, it will be for nothing. If you tank, Raptors get your pick :)

For nothing?? It'll be for everything. For one, to prevent Raps getting the pick. And two, making the playoffs will make our team more appealing for free agents next year. Why do you think all of the top tier free agents whiffed at joining the Knicks? Because they had no team! Now, if the Knicks make the playoffs.. they'd be a much more attractive destination than they were as a 17 win team. You typical Knick basher guy you.

cheetos185
07-04-2015, 08:34 AM
I think they are having a pretty good off-season, but kinda by accident. LMA, Gasol, Brewer, Beverly, Jordan and I think Ellis and Matthews all declined offers/expressed they weren't interested. At least they didn't panic and try to bring Eddy Curry out of retirement.
Where did you read Ellis and matthews declined offers? Don't confuse the kings with Knicks rofl

DarkKnight
07-04-2015, 09:01 AM
Where did you read Ellis and matthews declined offers? Don't confuse the kings with Knicks rofl

Kings got Rondoed

JasonJohnHorn
07-04-2015, 11:20 AM
NCAA is nowhere near the competition as some of these international leagues so idk what your point is. Not saying I disagree about your opinion on Kris but still

Firstly, I wouldn't agree that the competition level is alwyas higher in Europe. There are different leagues with different levels of competitiveness.

Secondly, college is extremely competitive compared to the best European leagues. There is a reason Euro/Chinese leagues have rules about the number of Americans you are allowed to have on your team, because if you load your team up with American players, you will have an unfair advantage.

Thirdly, it isn't JUST about the level of play, but also about the style of play. A guy like Toni Kuckoc DOMINATED in Europe, came over to the NBA and was a role player, while American guys post impressive scoring averages in the NBA can't even get minutes in Europe.


That said, if you took the teams that make it to the final four, or the top four ranked teams in the country, and put them against the best teams in Europe, they will compete. The guys over there are more physically mature, granted, but there are guys in the NCAA who are better than anybody in Europe. Do you think a single European player would have been able to keep up with Anthony Davis in his freshman year?


Europe has some great players and some great team, and they are getting better all the time, but if what you say is true, then the NBA would be drafting European player in the top ten ALL the time, and college guys wouldn't get picked up until the late second round.

KnicksorBust
07-04-2015, 12:20 PM
NCAA is nowhere near the competition as some of these international leagues so idk what your point is. Not saying I disagree about your opinion on Kris but still

Firstly, I wouldn't agree that the competition level is alwyas higher in Europe. There are different leagues with different levels of competitiveness.

Secondly, college is extremely competitive compared to the best European leagues. There is a reason Euro/Chinese leagues have rules about the number of Americans you are allowed to have on your team, because if you load your team up with American players, you will have an unfair advantage.

Thirdly, it isn't JUST about the level of play, but also about the style of play. A guy like Toni Kuckoc DOMINATED in Europe, came over to the NBA and was a role player, while American guys post impressive scoring averages in the NBA can't even get minutes in Europe.


That said, if you took the teams that make it to the final four, or the top four ranked teams in the country, and put them against the best teams in Europe, they will compete. The guys over there are more physically mature, granted, but there are guys in the NCAA who are better than anybody in Europe. Do you think a single European player would have been able to keep up with Anthony Davis in his freshman year?


Europe has some great players and some great team, and they are getting better all the time, but if what you say is true, then the NBA would be drafting European player in the top ten ALL the time, and college guys wouldn't get picked up until the late second round.

What is the most competitive Euro league?

TrueFan420
07-04-2015, 12:28 PM
I would love if NY could get Looney attached to Lee... but if not, I think Knicks would take Lee alone to salvage the offseason.

Looney is Lee's replacement so there's no chance of that. I'm sure we'd be willing to through in some second rounders but not much more than that.

cheetos185
07-04-2015, 12:46 PM
Looney is Lee's replacement so there's no chance of that. I'm sure we'd be willing to through in some second rounders but not much more than that.
Your selling Lee's 15 mil dollar contract for couple of 2nd rounders I think hinkie will bite he loves his 2nd round picks.

TrueFan420
07-04-2015, 12:58 PM
Your selling Lee's 15 mil dollar contract for couple of 2nd rounders I think hinkie will bite he loves his 2nd round picks.

Yea but we wouldn't do that to him

nycericanguy
07-04-2015, 01:06 PM
Looney is Lee's replacement so there's no chance of that. I'm sure we'd be willing to through in some second rounders but not much more than that.

Knicks dont have the cap anymore... I think LA and POR are the only two teams left the cap.

Knicks could possibly clear the cap or if GSW took back JC they would still save $8m on Lee's deal.

But the teams that can take Lee's contract outright are dwindling.

I actually predicted LMA would go to SA and they would replace him with Lee... seems like it could be a possibility now.

TrueFan420
07-04-2015, 01:09 PM
Knicks dont have the cap anymore... I think LA and POR are the only two teams left the cap.

Knicks could possibly clear the cap or if GSW took back JC they would still save $8m on Lee's deal.

But the teams that can take Lee's contract outright are dwindling.

I actually predicted LMA would go to SA and they would replace him with Lee... seems like it could be a possibility now.

I was thinking the same but I think they might want to tank the year for a top pick

nycericanguy
07-04-2015, 01:12 PM
I was thinking the same but I think they might want to tank the year for a top pick

agree... Lakers might be the only team left... so they'll have some leverage to ask for Looney in that case.

Really hope knicks can clear the cap though.

cheetos185
07-04-2015, 01:24 PM
agree... Lakers might be the only team left... so they'll have some leverage to ask for Looney in that case.

Really hope knicks can clear the cap though.
Why trade now when they will be willing to give up more at trade deadline?

Nikeman
07-04-2015, 01:40 PM
Knicks have set themselves up for mediocrity for the next 3+ years, that is all they have done.

TrueFan420
07-04-2015, 05:39 PM
agree... Lakers might be the only team left... so they'll have some leverage to ask for Looney in that case.

Really hope knicks can clear the cap though.

Looney won't be included. We don't have to dump anyone to bring everyone back. We're looking to move Lee cause he wants to start and he won't get that here. He was a great teammate about it on the way to the championship but we're trying to do right by him. If we can flip him and get talent back good, if we send him to a good location for nothing for money reasons they will prob be ok with it but we won't be giving up young talent to get ride of a former all-star 20-10 player who isn't causing waves. This is the new warriors we don't get f***ed we do the f***ing.

We can bring back barnes cause we have his bird rights. Yes we will pay a lot of money but lee expires at the end of the year so we will drop back under the cap threshold next year and won't worry about repeat issues. The owners have stated they will pay to keep the team together.

Nobody is prying Looney way from us. They're very high on him.

TheNumber37
07-04-2015, 09:35 PM
This is knicks rebuild year 1
Last year was strip down.

Next summer we keep adding and shaping. Phil is doing the right thing, this team is already better and less expensive than last year team and people think Phil is doing the wrong thing?

Scoots
07-05-2015, 02:08 PM
I don't know about "good" but certainly it has been solid. The Knicks should focus on developing their team over winning next year though.

hugepatsfan
07-05-2015, 02:13 PM
This is knicks rebuild year 1
Last year was strip down.

Next summer we keep adding and shaping. Phil is doing the right thing, this team is already better and less expensive than last year team and people think Phil is doing the wrong thing?

I think Phil is doing the right thing for the team. I just question whether Melo fits the timeline the Knicks are operating on. Melo is going into his age 31 season this year. How much longer does he have? If the rebuild is going to take another couple of off seasons then you run the risk of Melo being done by the time the team around him is ready to compete. I think you guys should make one more run at big-time FAs next year and if it fails, it would be time to explore moving Melo while he'll still be young enough to have great value.

KnicksorBust
07-05-2015, 05:33 PM
This is knicks rebuild year 1
Last year was strip down.

Next summer we keep adding and shaping. Phil is doing the right thing, this team is already better and less expensive than last year team and people think Phil is doing the wrong thing?

I think Phil is doing the right thing for the team. I just question whether Melo fits the timeline the Knicks are operating on. Melo is going into his age 31 season this year. How much longer does he have? If the rebuild is going to take another couple of off seasons then you run the risk of Melo being done by the time the team around him is ready to compete. I think you guys should make one more run at big-time FAs next year and if it fails, it would be time to explore moving Melo while he'll still be young enough to have great value.

I would love to move Melo for Chandler Parsons. I have like 3-4 other trades that make sense but that is my favorite.

hugepatsfan
07-05-2015, 05:40 PM
I would love to move Melo for Chandler Parsons. I have like 3-4 other trades that make sense but that is my favorite.

Honestly I don't think DAL would go for that. CP is a great playmaker at the 3 and DAL really needs that with how weak they are at PG - Cuban has even said he expects CP to play there some. Talent wise Melo > CP but I think in the context of the rest of DAL's roster, CP makes more sense. He's also much younger and DAL fans themselves even acknowledged in the other thread that they're really in better position long-term than they are next season. Not saying CP is a better player than Melo but I know you're a smart basketball guy so I think you understand what I mean.

KnicksorBust
07-05-2015, 10:41 PM
I would love to move Melo for Chandler Parsons. I have like 3-4 other trades that make sense but that is my favorite.

Honestly I don't think DAL would go for that. CP is a great playmaker at the 3 and DAL really needs that with how weak they are at PG - Cuban has even said he expects CP to play there some. Talent wise Melo > CP but I think in the context of the rest of DAL's roster, CP makes more sense. He's also much younger and DAL fans themselves even acknowledged in the other thread that they're really in better position long-term than they are next season. Not saying CP is a better player than Melo but I know you're a smart basketball guy so I think you understand what I mean.

To be honest if I am Dallas I am not sure I accept. You bring up good points. It is interesting to think that a top 15-20 player like Melo has such a dry market but with his age, injury, and difficult fit there probably isn't much out there right now. Maybe at the deadline depending on how the season is going. I am curious if they try and play him at PF with Robin Lopez like they did with Tyson Chandler.

FOXHOUND
07-05-2015, 11:19 PM
I would love to move Melo for Chandler Parsons. I have like 3-4 other trades that make sense but that is my favorite.

If Phil traded Melo and the best he got was Parsons I would be pretty pissed, and I'm a fan of Parsons.

FOXHOUND
07-05-2015, 11:25 PM
Honestly I don't think DAL would go for that. CP is a great playmaker at the 3 and DAL really needs that with how weak they are at PG - Cuban has even said he expects CP to play there some. Talent wise Melo > CP but I think in the context of the rest of DAL's roster, CP makes more sense. He's also much younger and DAL fans themselves even acknowledged in the other thread that they're really in better position long-term than they are next season. Not saying CP is a better player than Melo but I know you're a smart basketball guy so I think you understand what I mean.

I think they wouldn't hesitate to do that, you're understating just how much better Melo is than Parsons. Yes, Parsons passing is nice for them right now, but that necessity you point out is due to them not having a top #1 option. Right now, they don't have any, just an old Dirk and DeAndre "Shaq-like" Jordan to go with Parsons 15-16 PPG.

The reason the current makeup of the Mavs roster is in a better position for long term over next season is because they struck out on Aldridge and had to settle for Jordan and Matthews, two more high end role players to go with high end role player Parsons. Trading Parsons for Melo would accelerate the plan for next season, when they'll try to go after more big FA's, and actually guarantee them securing one when they have failed to do so for five straight offseasons now. That will make it instant, saving a year of Dirk's career, and put them in a position to make a deep run this season.

Lo Porto
07-05-2015, 11:37 PM
Neutral fan here.

NY has to trade Melo. The return doesn't even have to be that great. Why? Nobody wants to play with him. This off season proved that. Think about it - if Melo wasn't on the roster this off-season, NY could have gotten Aldridge, Matthews and Millsap. Those 3 guys like each other and would fit nicely together.

But nobody wants to play with Melo. If I'm NY, I try to get Tristan Thompson in a sign and trade with Cleveland, or Winslow in a trade with Miami, or Joe Johnson and a ton of picks from Brooklyn or something else.

NY can build in a massive way next summer, but Melo has to be gone. Recruit a group and not a guy or two.

Sssmush
07-06-2015, 04:49 AM
Grant
Afflalo
Melo
Zinger
Lopez

Lopez and Afflalo should help out a lot on the D and I think these players fit the triangle well and compliment melo, wouldnt shock me to see them in the playoffs.


Yes you are absolutely right. Especially the addition of Porzingis, starting with his PR value in NY and then his ability to play center in the triangle and dominate inside while facilitating, and also defending the paint. Porzingis and Carmelo form a formidable duo, a one two punch, inside outside attack Carmelo to Porzingis tgen Pirzingis kick it out to Melo. Then you got Lopez and Afflalo rounding out a superstar nucleus.

Like I know some people said Lebron took the Knicks to the Finals this year because he had JR and Schumpert, but it is all about the Triangle this year. So I would definitely not expect any tanking, and a very likely improvement on last year's worst record of all time. And again with Phil giving you Porzingis there is a lot to build on.

Sssmush
07-06-2015, 04:56 AM
Neutral fan here.

NY has to trade Melo. The return doesn't even have to be that great. Why? Nobody wants to play with him. This off season proved that. Think about it - if Melo wasn't on the roster this off-season, NY could have gotten Aldridge, Matthews and Millsap. Those 3 guys like each other and would fit nicely together.

But nobody wants to play with Melo. If I'm NY, I try to get Tristan Thompson in a sign and trade with Cleveland, or Winslow in a trade with Miami, or Joe Johnson and a ton of picks from Brooklyn or something else.

NY can build in a massive way next summer, but Melo has to be gone. Recruit a group and not a guy or two.

Yikes. Carmelo for Justice Winslow? Why would Miami do that? Carmelo is in full sulk mode since February, not even playing, and he's owed $700 million dollars for the next five years. Also he thinks the entire stadium/game/team/coverage is all for him to demonstrate some sweet fadeaway jumpers

Sssmush
07-06-2015, 05:03 AM
Honestly, honestly it doesnt seem Phil is right for NY. Fisher is clearly not the right coach, obviously, at least with Phil pulling his strings.

Knicks are ok since they cleared cap space. If they could trade melo say to Boston for 12 draft picks and 3 prospects, and then maybe trade Porzingis now while his draft stock is at its absolute zenith, perhaps to Utah for a 1st a 2nd and a couple players.

But Knicks got cap room, somehow cleared the decks so they just need to start fresh with zero expectations. Trade out of Carmelo and you undo the damage from the foolish Denver trade.

cheetos185
07-06-2015, 06:41 AM
Neutral fan here.

NY has to trade Melo. The return doesn't even have to be that great. Why? Nobody wants to play with him. This off season proved that. Think about it - if Melo wasn't on the roster this off-season, NY could have gotten Aldridge, Matthews and Millsap. Those 3 guys like each other and would fit nicely together.

But nobody wants to play with Melo. If I'm NY, I try to get Tristan Thompson in a sign and trade with Cleveland, or Winslow in a trade with Miami, or Joe Johnson and a ton of picks from Brooklyn or something else.

NY can build in a massive way next summer, but Melo has to be gone. Recruit a group and not a guy or two.
Don't want Thompson and his horrible contract.

DarkKnight
07-06-2015, 07:17 AM
Knicks have set themselves up for mediocrity for the next 3+ years, that is all they have done.

Cool can't wait

FraziersKnicks
07-06-2015, 07:20 AM
Knicks have set themselves up for mediocrity for the next 3+ years, that is all they have done.

Yeah because we're not gonna have any cap room next summer to add even more pieces and we didn't draft the highest upside player in the draft...

:rolleyes:

I really don't think a Heat fan can talk about their team being locked into mediocrity for the foreseeable future. The Heat have got 3 players who are 29+ making max money, one who's a lock to miss about 20 games a season through injury and another who's coming off a very serious health issue.

GrkGawdofWalkz
07-06-2015, 08:00 AM
Yeah because we're not gonna have any cap room next summer to add even more pieces and we didn't draft the highest upside player in the draft...

:rolleyes:

I really don't think a Heat fan can talk about their team being locked into mediocrity for the foreseeable future. The Heat have got 3 players who are 29+ making max money, one who's a lock to miss about 20 games a season through injury and another who's coming off a very serious health issue.

You had cap this offseason and couldn't attract anyone more than moderate level free agents. Having cap space doesn't mean that you're going to attract the talent.

KnicksorBust
07-06-2015, 08:05 AM
Neutral fan here.

NY has to trade Melo. The return doesn't even have to be that great. Why? Nobody wants to play with him. This off season proved that. Think about it - if Melo wasn't on the roster this off-season, NY could have gotten Aldridge, Matthews and Millsap. Those 3 guys like each other and would fit nicely together.

But nobody wants to play with Melo. If I'm NY, I try to get Tristan Thompson in a sign and trade with Cleveland, or Winslow in a trade with Miami, or Joe Johnson and a ton of picks from Brooklyn or something else.

NY can build in a massive way next summer, but Melo has to be gone. Recruit a group and not a guy or two.

The point of trading Melo would be to cut salary. TT would be atrocious for us. Justice Winslow + a 1st as a rookie replacement is closer to the type of deal I would want. That would be a fun team to watch: Grant - Afflalo - Winslow Porzingis - Lopez. They would be terrible lol... but it would be fun.

mudvayne387
07-06-2015, 08:13 AM
Knicks didn't have a good off season, they had a phenomenal one. It all started on draft night when they selected Porzingas. Phil knew it would not be a popular decision but he made the pick anyways. At #4 you can either get a low floor type player in Winslow or Kaminsky. Or you can shoot for the stars and take the player with the most potential in the entire draft with Porzingas. Then, he rids himself of Al Harrington 2.0 in Hardaway and brings in a high IQ PG/SG with Grant.

The free agency period started off mighty slow for Phil and company. Rumors started to surface that they were going to give Afflalo 12 million per year. What's the result ? A team friendly two year deal worth 8 million a season. One of the better deals handed out in the entire free agency period. But it doesn't end there. While everyone was hanging around (Knicks included) waiting for Jordan to pick a team, Phil was able to sign Robin Lopez and lock up the 26 year old rim protector long term. Then comes my favorite move of the Knicks off season. They sign Kyle O'Quinn to a 4 year 16 million dollar deal. A 6'10'' spark plug with great court vision and a knack for playing defense. The Derrick Williams signing I could do without. But at 24 years old, he could certainly still turn into a decent bench option.

So where does that leave the Knicks ? Well, to be brutally honest, they are still probably a fringe playoff team. But that is short term thinking. Phil is no dummy. He used Carmelo Anthony to sell tickets on Dolan's behalf. But I truly believe his plan all along was to slowly build a team that fits the triangle. U would not be one bit surprised to see Anthony traded mid season to a contender to for multiple firsts. Make no mistakes, Jackson and Fisher want high IQ players that fit the system.

FraziersKnicks
07-06-2015, 08:25 AM
You had cap this offseason and couldn't attract anyone more than moderate level free agents. Having cap space doesn't mean that you're going to attract the talent.

Of course it doesn't... But we were coming off a 17 win season and went into free agency with Melo, Calderon and Galloway under contract. Now we have:

Melo
Zinger
Afflalo
Lopez
Calderon
Grant
O'Quinn
Williams
Galloway

We actually have an NBA team, as opposed to a few players. If we can hover around .500, win 40+ games and squeak into the playoffs, then I'm sure we'll be a much more attractive free agency option. With another $25m in cap room next summer and a much more balanced roster, I just want us to keep adding pieces. And if we don't get any big name guys, we can just continue to build the team with high character, tough 2-way players (which seems to be Phil's plan). If Phil can create a good team culture of hard working, team first players that's only gonna help us with free agents. The Spurs and LMA is a perfect example. He turned down the flashier market (LA/HOU) because the team he was going to is incredibly well run and the culture Pop has created is so important. NY is always gonna be a desirable location for FA's, we just need to build a team to further encourage free agents.

Lots of teams over the years have proven you don't need a "big 3" to have a very good basketball team. If we had thrown all our money at LMA or Love we wouldn't be in a better position. Our best prospect would be trapped behind one of those guys, our roster would still be incredibly thin and we would still have no defense

It would look flashy having a Melo-Love combo but it wouldn't put us in a better position than we are now. The only free agent that I am disappointed we missed out on was Gasol, but he's still the wrong side of 30, would've taken all our cap room and never looked like leaving Memphis.

king4day
07-06-2015, 09:03 AM
I'm digging this offseason for NY. They got some value contracts and will be more competitive. As was mentioned, they will have more cap space next season. This year will allow them to develop the youth and build chemistry.
If they have the room, they should try absorbing David Lee's contract too.

FraziersKnicks
07-06-2015, 09:15 AM
I'm digging this offseason for NY. They got some value contracts and will be more competitive. As was mentioned, they will have more cap space next season. This year will allow them to develop the youth and build chemistry.
If they have the room, they should try absorbing David Lee's contract too.

I would've quite like it if we had taken on Lee's contract if the Warriors had thrown in Looney but we had no room to take on his $15m.

I also really want Zinger to get 25+ MPG and Lee would've just cut into his playing time.

chjghj
07-06-2015, 10:57 AM
How if this guy allowed to make bait thread after bait thread seriously it's insane http://healthlifeok.com/green/images/44.gifhttp://healthlifeok.com/green/images/63.gif

BlueMotorCycle
07-06-2015, 11:16 AM
Knicks didn't have a good off season, they had a phenomenal one. It all started on draft night when they selected Porzingas. Phil knew it would not be a popular decision but he made the pick anyways. At #4 you can either get a low floor type player in Winslow or Kaminsky. Or you can shoot for the stars and take the player with the most potential in the entire draft with Porzingas. Then, he rids himself of Al Harrington 2.0 in Hardaway and brings in a high IQ PG/SG with Grant.

The free agency period started off mighty slow for Phil and company. Rumors started to surface that they were going to give Afflalo 12 million per year. What's the result ? A team friendly two year deal worth 8 million a season. One of the better deals handed out in the entire free agency period. But it doesn't end there. While everyone was hanging around (Knicks included) waiting for Jordan to pick a team, Phil was able to sign Robin Lopez and lock up the 26 year old rim protector long term. Then comes my favorite move of the Knicks off season. They sign Kyle O'Quinn to a 4 year 16 million dollar deal. A 6'10'' spark plug with great court vision and a knack for playing defense. The Derrick Williams signing I could do without. But at 24 years old, he could certainly still turn into a decent bench option.

So where does that leave the Knicks ? Well, to be brutally honest, they are still probably a fringe playoff team. But that is short term thinking. Phil is no dummy. He used Carmelo Anthony to sell tickets on Dolan's behalf. But I truly believe his plan all along was to slowly build a team that fits the triangle. U would not be one bit surprised to see Anthony traded mid season to a contender to for multiple firsts. Make no mistakes, Jackson and Fisher want high IQ players that fit the system.

This all day you know that knick haters were ready to hate no matter what. But **** them and who ever they root for 😎

BlueMotorCycle
07-06-2015, 11:18 AM
Knicks have set themselves up for mediocrity for the next 3+ years, that is all they have done.

Labron ain't comin back *****

TheNumber37
07-06-2015, 02:43 PM
Neutral fan here.

NY has to trade Melo. The return doesn't even have to be that great. Why? Nobody wants to play with him. This off season proved that. Think about it - if Melo wasn't on the roster this off-season, NY could have gotten Aldridge, Matthews and Millsap. Those 3 guys like each other and would fit nicely together.

But nobody wants to play with Melo. If I'm NY, I try to get Tristan Thompson in a sign and trade with Cleveland, or Winslow in a trade with Miami, or Joe Johnson and a ton of picks from Brooklyn or something else.

NY can build in a massive way next summer, but Melo has to be gone. Recruit a group and not a guy or two.

The point of trading Melo would be to cut salary. TT would be atrocious for us. Justice Winslow + a 1st as a rookie replacement is closer to the type of deal I would want. That would be a fun team to watch: Grant - Afflalo - Winslow Porzingis - Lopez. They would be terrib
le lol... but it would be fun.


If nobody wanted to play with melo. The Knicks would gave signed no one. People do want to play with melo, this is just silly.

The big names who passed on NY looked at their 17 wins and readiness to compete for a playoff spot and title Contention.

NO ONE said Im not going to NY to play with melo. Thats never been part of his story. He's not Kobe.

TheNumber37
07-06-2015, 02:44 PM
As if trading Melo for pieces and depth would ATTRACT free agents

mudvayne387
07-06-2015, 03:26 PM
Dallas could be a sneaky good fit for Anthony and Cuban has the balls to pull it off. Parsons + 2 first round picks. Knicks would be getting a player who can grow with the team and fits their system. He is making 16 million a year but they'd still free up another 6 million per. If somehow someway they lured Mike Conley to NY off season, they'd have one hell of a core.

Conley
Afflalo
Parsons
Porzingis
Lopez

Now of course this is all hypothetical and we know Parsons is the locker room glue. But I'd keep my eye on the situation if Dallas starts off slow after losing their leading scorer from last season in Ellis. God knows Jordan won't be picking up the offensive slack.

TheNumber37
07-06-2015, 04:27 PM
This is a team being built around Melo. I don't see Melo getting traded, especially when they win a couple games and he likes their direction.

Why would Melo leave in year 2 of a 5 year deal. Doesn't he have a NTC. He'd waive that and baIL, why? I'm sure basketball business wise Melo is a lot smarter than most of us. He ultimately wants to win in NY.
If Prozingis and Grant are looking good. Galloway and early play well. Calderon is healthy and everyone comes together and excels in the system, why would be force his way out. Especially with the cap set to go up and other names would be available

ManRam
07-07-2015, 12:42 PM
I really struggle to evaluate their offseason. I think it was a mix of good and not-as-good...and it mostly comes down to expectations. I think they killed it on draft night and correctly focused a bit more on the long-term than the immediate future. While I'm not thrilled about them prolonging the inevitable and keeping Melo/bringing in guys to get them back to mediocrity, none of the guys they signed really will hurt them financially down the road. They didn't make the moves to "contend" that impatient teams tend to make that end up backfiring and crippling those franchises for years. But at the same time, the moves they made certainly aren't getting them to true EC-contending levels.

They're basically treading water, but Porzingis, Grant and KOQ are nice long-term moves. Afflalo's contract won't come back to bite him (he's really nothing special anymore...hasn't played good defense in years now). Lopez's contract isn't an overpay. Basically, they haven't hurt themselves long-term (I think) this summer even though they've focused a decent amount on treading water in the short term and haven't fully committed to that rebuild like a think they should. But then again, they don't have to rush to trade Melo, I guess.

They didn't hurt themselves, but the level to which they helped themselves the next few seasons isn't inspiring either.

IKnowHoops
07-07-2015, 05:48 PM
They should try and trade Melo for picks, tank, and basically be ready to try and win by the time Lebron can no longer dominate the game. No point to them even trying until Bron is more or less done being that guy.

LongIslandIcedZ
07-07-2015, 05:52 PM
I'm not celebrating or anything, but I certainly cant complain.

If the Knicks had their first rounder I think Melo would already be gone, or at least on his way.

valade16
07-07-2015, 06:04 PM
Unless I'm mistaken they don't have their 1st Rd pick next season so there really is no incentive or reason to tank. What are you tanking for? To be terrible for terrible's sake?

I like the moves. As bad as the Eastern Conference is, if Melo stays healthy with Afflalo and Rolo they might actually make the playoffs in the East, which would be a nice little consolation season for them.

ewing
07-07-2015, 07:06 PM
I really struggle to evaluate their offseason. I think it was a mix of good and not-as-good...and it mostly comes down to expectations. I think they killed it on draft night and correctly focused a bit more on the long-term than the immediate future. While I'm not thrilled about them prolonging the inevitable and keeping Melo/bringing in guys to get them back to mediocrity, none of the guys they signed really will hurt them financially down the road. They didn't make the moves to "contend" that impatient teams tend to make that end up backfiring and crippling those franchises for years. But at the same time, the moves they made certainly aren't getting them to true EC-contending levels.

They're basically treading water, but Porzingis, Grant and KOQ are nice long-term moves. Afflalo's contract won't come back to bite him (he's really nothing special anymore...hasn't played good defense in years now). Lopez's contract isn't an overpay. Basically, they haven't hurt themselves long-term (I think) this summer even though they've focused a decent amount on treading water in the short term and haven't fully committed to that rebuild like a think they should. But then again, they don't have to rush to trade Melo, I guess.

They didn't hurt themselves, but the level to which they helped themselves the next few seasons isn't inspiring either.



you are not treading water if you are improving. If you are improving, not limiting future opinions, and making long term moves you are doing a good job. that what you are supposed to try to do and it seems you think its what they did. I guess your criticism is they don't suck enough. :up:

ewing
07-07-2015, 07:10 PM
Unless I'm mistaken they don't have their 1st Rd pick next season so there really is no incentive or reason to tank. What are you tanking for? To be terrible for terrible's sake?

I like the moves. As bad as the Eastern Conference is, if Melo stays healthy with Afflalo and Rolo they might actually make the playoffs in the East, which would be a nice little consolation season for them.


you are supposed to have a LeBron in his rookie year or win less then 20 games. its whats in

ManRam
07-07-2015, 07:26 PM
you are not treading water if you are improving. If you are improving, not limiting future opinions, and making long term moves you are doing a good job. that what you are supposed to try to do and it seems you think its what they did. I guess your criticism is they don't suck enough. :up:

Fine. "Treading water" was too harsh.

I guess more succinctly my "criticism" is this: I think it's better they fully commit to a rebuild than not. They have a better roster, but what's the end game? They aren't ever winning with Melo on the roster. For not wanting to move Melo it's fine...if for no other reason than the fact that they didn't make an Amare-esque mistake again in an effort to get great quick.

Getting better is the goal, but again...what's the end game? A 6th seed? Maybe my criticism is that they aren't bad enough :shrug: I'm fine with that. I'd rather blow it up early than wait too long.

They've done fine...even well. I just think trading Melo is the linchpin here, and they did whiff on the guys they truly wanted too. That matters.

ewing
07-07-2015, 08:00 PM
Fine. "Treading water" was too harsh.

I guess more succinctly my "criticism" is this: I think it's better they fully commit to a rebuild than not. They have a better roster, but what's the end game? They aren't ever winning with Melo on the roster. For not wanting to move Melo it's fine...if for no other reason than the fact that they didn't make an Amare-esque mistake again in an effort to get great quick.

Getting better is the goal, but again...what's the end game? A 6th seed? Maybe my criticism is that they aren't bad enough :shrug: I'm fine with that. I'd rather blow it up early than wait too long.

They've done fine...even well. I just think trading Melo is the linchpin here, and they did whiff on the guys they truly wanted too. That matters.


yeah, sucking is awesome. why don't we look at the moves they actually made.

1 drafted a kid they think could be a franchise player while passing on a more NBA ready players with a lower ceiling like Winslow. This move makes them better short and long term.

2 traded THR for Grant. if you like Grant i am sure you think this move both improves them short and long term.

3. Signed AA. 2 year deal. reasonable contract. AA makes them better short term and is movable for younger assets at the deadline if a team is presented with the need like Portland was this year. short term move that gives you and asset and doesn't hamper you long term

4 sign Lopez. again a reasonable contract. definitely makes you better short term and if your youth and future moves pan out could be still be an important player when you are a legitimate team. I don't love this move but i don't think you can kill it and it definitely makes your current product watchable.

5. O"quiin again a very reasonable deal, and one that could turn into a bargain for a 25 year old guy with definitely value

if your criticism is that made long term moves while going from a 17 win team to a 6 seed next year instead of just sucking *** you really don't get it.