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View Full Version : Should the Knicks Pack Up in 2015 Free Agency and Prepare for 2016?



Nikeman
07-02-2015, 10:03 PM
Serious question?

The Knicks struck out badly in 2015, its that simple. Quite honestly, they should be happy Monroe chose the Bucks, because Monroe/Anthony puts the Knicks in mediocrity for the next 3-4 years. The only person I go after hard if I am the Knicks is Marc Gasol or LA, who both are not going there.

If I am the Knicks, save the cap space, and go all out in 2016. This may not be a bad option either. Developing Porzingis, Grant etc etc could also help out in the long run. Acquiring a top 3 pick can also solve another need.

These contracts I am hearing them handing out, 12-13 million to Lopez, Jordan Hill, are useless and pure stupidity. They are not good enough to lead the Knicks anywhere and this is just desperation.

If I am the Knicks, I look for good depth, value type signings and then go all out for 2016. Lopez/Jordan Hill on 10+ mill contracts is idocracy and hampers them for 2016. Get a center next draft, and go all out after Durant/Conley, etc etc.

Dade County
07-02-2015, 10:09 PM
A HEAT fan can not start a thread like this :laugh2: (about the Knicks)

But LoL anyway.


The Knicks are going to have to trade Melo, everyone knows this.

Legitimate
07-02-2015, 10:11 PM
We got new yorks pick as i can recall....so there screwed if they try tank this year, but hey atleast they can develop some players and watch melo get disgruntled :cool:

Nikeman
07-02-2015, 10:18 PM
Lol, they are also being linked to David Lee and Jeremy Lin, this is kinda sad and pathetic. And Legit, is the pick unprotected?

IBleedPurple
07-02-2015, 10:20 PM
We got new yorks pick as i can recall....so there screwed if they try tank this year, but hey atleast they can develop some players and watch melo get disgruntled :cool:Nuggets get to choose the best 1st rd pick between the Knicks and theirs, then Toronto gets the worse pick. So you'll be rooting against two teams this year :)

As for the Knicks, no reason to do that. At least get something this year. Won't be any easier recruiting next year if they stink.

Nikeman
07-02-2015, 10:23 PM
Nuggets get to choose the best 1st rd pick between the Knicks and theirs, then Toronto gets the worse pick. So you'll be rooting against two teams this year :)

As for the Knicks, no reason to do that. At least get something this year. Won't be any easier recruiting next year if they stink.

Well, with a team of Afflalo and Melo, the Nuggets may get a 25% shot at the #1 pick hahah

Legitimate
07-02-2015, 10:28 PM
.

Legitimate
07-02-2015, 10:31 PM
Lol, they are also being linked to David Lee and Jeremy Lin, this is kinda sad and pathetic. And Legit, is the pick unprotected?

yes its unprotected, but denver has the right to swap, so could be potentially a top ten pick next year lol

Cal827
07-02-2015, 10:53 PM
Lol, they are also being linked to David Lee and Jeremy Lin, this is kinda sad and pathetic. And Legit, is the pick unprotected?

Yup. both conditions on the pick are unprotected. Denver can swap picks, regardless of where the Knicks end up next year in the standings, and afterwards the pick gets transferred to Toronto, regardless of where the Knicks finish.

The Knicks could end up the worst team in the League, and Denver could be the 3rd worst, but Denver would swap to the 1st pick, then the 3rd pick would transfer over to Toronto (From the Andrea Bargnani deal.... they didn't put any protection on the pick).

They need(ed) to get good players in this free agency class, at least to lessen the potential damage come next year's draft lottery. We'll see what happens. Luckily, 2016 is on the horizon, and I do doubt that they strike out next season. Hopefully the Knicks recover , cause I feel bad for their loyal fans, as I too, root for a team in another league that keeps making dumb decisions, but won't stop cheering for them (From A Leafs fan to the Knick fans). Next year though (sorry, I'm a little greedy over the pick) :laugh2:

east fb knicks
07-03-2015, 08:40 PM
Omg if we got the number 1 pick next year just to give it to the raps I'd lose it rofl

Cal827
07-03-2015, 08:42 PM
Omg if we got the number 1 pick next year just to give it to the raps I'd lose it rofl

Well, you won't have to worry about that, unless Denver chooses for some reason, not to swap to 1 if they could :laugh2:

Don't worry, the Raptor troll won't jump into your forum for 1st overall.

DarkKnight
07-03-2015, 08:48 PM
Cool thread , only in the NBA forum:laugh:

cheetos185
07-03-2015, 08:49 PM
Wait did he say we had the worst offseason what about the Lakers clippers and kings. Lakers haven't convinced anyone to sign there, they passed on Okafor because they were so sure LMA/Jordan/Love was going there. Kings were willing to overpay multiple guards who all took lesser money elsewhere. Clippers lost there starting C to a lower seed team and he took less money but no by all means fire away all you want at the knicks.

effen5
07-03-2015, 09:11 PM
Knicks need to forget free agency and build through the draft.

MJL80
07-03-2015, 09:22 PM
Everyone is obsessed with the Knicks

Silent
07-03-2015, 09:22 PM
Knicks need to forget free agency and build through the draft.

That be nice if they had there pick for this year They need to start from scratch trade all valuable pieces for picks just like Philly and Boston and build from there. If they could not get Monroe do you really think any tier free agents will decide to go there

More-Than-Most
07-03-2015, 09:35 PM
Serious question?

The Knicks struck out badly in 2015, its that simple. Quite honestly, they should be happy Monroe chose the Bucks, because Monroe/Anthony puts the Knicks in mediocrity for the next 3-4 years. The only person I go after hard if I am the Knicks is Marc Gasol or LA, who both are not going there.

If I am the Knicks, save the cap space, and go all out in 2016. This may not be a bad option either. Developing Porzingis, Grant etc etc could also help out in the long run. Acquiring a top 3 pick can also solve another need.

These contracts I am hearing them handing out, 12-13 million to Lopez, Jordan Hill, are useless and pure stupidity. They are not good enough to lead the Knicks anywhere and this is just desperation.

If I am the Knicks, I look for good depth, value type signings and then go all out for 2016. Lopez/Jordan Hill on 10+ mill contracts is idocracy and hampers them for 2016. Get a center next draft, and go all out after Durant/Conley, etc etc.

Welcome to my opinion over the last 2 years and before they resigned melo and stated they should trade him asap and note I GOT KILLED FOR IT.

Sanjay
07-13-2015, 02:46 AM
Knicks need to forget free agency and build through the draft.

The draft is the ideal way to rebuild, but it is much more difficult than it seems. Obviously the Spurs and Warriors are prime examples of how developing talent can win you a championship, but even the players San Antonio and Golden State drafted were not solid bets to become NBA stars (excluding Duncan). You can pick who you think is going to be the best player, but they may not turn out like that. Clearly it is harder to attract a superstar free agent than draft the person you want, but FA's are already established. Maybe slightly easier than these two strategies is to obtain draft picks and then trade them for NBA-proven players to lead your team.

FraziersKnicks
07-13-2015, 04:16 AM
Shows how much the OP knows when he thinks we signed Jordan Hill :laugh2:

I'm loving the hate though. The Knicks made some savvy free agency decisions. The only max contract that would've benefitted us would've been Marc Gasol and he was never gonna leave Memphis. Instead we signed some great role players that bring defense and high IQ basketball to our team.

Give Zinger and Grant a year to develop and do the same thing next year. Sign some high character defensive role players and just keep building a nice, solid, deep team.

If people think we're gunning for the worst record in the league next season they're gonna be surprised. I wouldn't be surprised to see us fighting for the 7/8 seed and hovering around .500 which will be a huge improvement for us.

TheNumber37
07-13-2015, 07:41 AM
The knicks had a and are having a great off season. No, they did not get franchise alter players this year. But they have effectively built the core which is harder to do than go get a star.

Grant/
Afflalo
Robin Lopez
Derrick Williams
Kyle o'quinn
Porzingis

These are all sold role players built with skills to HELP Melo succeed.

Then Phil kept Calderon, Galloway, Early, Thomas, amubndson
Just enough guys to help bring everyone up to speed at every position

Better than overpaying reggie Jackson isn't

ewing
07-13-2015, 11:22 AM
I am excited to see how this team does. Its all on Melo but i like the moves they made for most part and we'll see.

LongIslandIcedZ
07-13-2015, 12:08 PM
I dont understand the whole striking out thing. The way I look at it, the biggest mistake (if you want to call it that) was missing out on Marc Gasol. Aldridge is on the perfect team for his playing style. Could you imagine how many shots he and Melo would combine to miss every game.

I'm not preparing to watch the parade down the Canyon of Heroes or anything like that, but to call this offseason a failure is a bit misinformed.

The Knicks biggest issue right now is their lack of a first round pick. I'm not going to judge this off-season because the previous regime made some stupid *** trade for Bargnani.

I've said countless times on here, if the Knicks could somehow get their first rounder back from Denver/Toronto I would trade Melo right now, and I think that would put the Knicks in fantastic shape.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
07-13-2015, 12:38 PM
http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j388/iZombieZ/131443075153-Abandon_thread_Jim.gif

Sactown
07-13-2015, 12:43 PM
Wait did he say we had the worst offseason what about the Lakers clippers and kings. Lakers haven't convinced anyone to sign there, they passed on Okafor because they were so sure LMA/Jordan/Love was going there. Kings were willing to overpay multiple guards who all took lesser money elsewhere. Clippers lost there starting C to a lower seed team and he took less money but no by all means fire away all you want at the knicks.

Actually the Kings part wasn't true,

We offered Mathews a 2 Mil more per year (after state income tax) and he chose , what he thought was a contender for slightly less then when Jordon bounced he received 13 Mil more than the kings offer

There was a rumor that we offered Harris the max (which turned out to be false) but yet again even if we did after tax you're looking at another 12ish mil off the top making the offer 4 mil less over 4 years and he gets to stay in Orlando .. so not significant again.

We also landed Marco and a good price
and Koufos at a cheap price , so overall I'm happy about our free agency , I'm just glad we didn't give Derrick Williams (one of the worst defenders in the league ) 5 mil a year

Burkey3472
07-13-2015, 12:54 PM
The Knicks had two possible outcomes this offseason....

A) Sign a superstar

or

B) Sign a bunch of quality players and hope for the best.

They couldn't just trade Melo and tank this season because they have no 1st next year. You might as well try to win some games this year and if it doesn't work blow it up by trading Melo and tank the 2016-2017 when they have their pick.

FraziersKnicks
07-13-2015, 01:15 PM
Actually the Kings part wasn't true,

We offered Mathews a 2 Mil more per year (after state income tax) and he chose , what he thought was a contender for slightly less then when Jordon bounced he received 13 Mil more than the kings offer

There was a rumor that we offered Harris the max (which turned out to be false) but yet again even if we did after tax you're looking at another 12ish mil off the top making the offer 4 mil less over 4 years and he gets to stay in Orlando .. so not significant again.

We also landed Marco and a good price
and Koufos at a cheap price , so overall I'm happy about our free agency , I'm just glad we didn't give Derrick Williams (one of the worst defenders in the league ) 5 mil a year

I wasn't over the moon about the Williams signing, but Koufos was a terrible overpay. The guy is a career 5/5 backup center who isn't gonna see huge minutes behind Cousins and WCS. Him at $8m+ a year is pretty terrible.

I would take Derrick Williams for 2 years/$10m, than Koufos at 4 years/$33m any day.

cheetos185
07-13-2015, 01:29 PM
Actually the Kings part wasn't true,

We offered Mathews a 2 Mil more per year (after state income tax) and he chose , what he thought was a contender for slightly less then when Jordon bounced he received 13 Mil more than the kings offer

There was a rumor that we offered Harris the max (which turned out to be false) but yet again even if we did after tax you're looking at another 12ish mil off the top making the offer 4 mil less over 4 years and he gets to stay in Orlando .. so not significant again.

We also landed Marco and a good price
and Koufos at a cheap price , so overall I'm happy about our free agency , I'm just glad we didn't give Derrick Williams (one of the worst defenders in the league ) 5 mil a year
Ellis/matthews/bargianni turned down more cash from sactown for lower playoff seed teams lol. I mean even bargianni doesn't want to play for your team ouch.

phantasyyy
07-13-2015, 01:35 PM
Uhh you guys keep saying trade melo trade melo but:

1) nobody is going to give up their assets to get him.
2) he has a NTC. so he aint going anywhere he don't want to.

Also Knicks fan, was wondering why Bargs chose the nets for the minimum > knicks?? weren't you guys also offering him the min? and his skill set complements the triangle.

Sactown
07-13-2015, 02:45 PM
Ellis/matthews/bargianni turned down more cash from sactown for lower playoff seed teams lol. I mean even bargianni doesn't want to play for your team ouch.

I already talked about Mathews , Ellis offer was 4 Mil more of four years from Sac, but try again after tax it's a loss and Indiana has a better shot at the playoffs

Bargani did turn down more money (unknown amount) but also he gets to stay in New York and not move across the country , he also has a chance to start in Brooklyn and play bigger minutes than he does in Sacramento

Sactown
07-13-2015, 02:48 PM
I wasn't over the moon about the Williams signing, but Koufos was a terrible overpay. The guy is a career 5/5 backup center who isn't gonna see huge minutes behind Cousins and WCS. Him at $8m+ a year is pretty terrible.

I would take Derrick Williams for 2 years/$10m, than Koufos at 4 years/$33m any day.

A legit 7 footer who has very good rim protecting skills who played legit minutes on a playoff contender being paid what will basically be the mid level exception isn't a bad deal...

A guy who doesn't have a true position, was one of the worst defenders in the league, who struggles to find a consistent offense other than dunks, who couldn't find minutes on a 30 win team will be making 5 Mil a year, not that it matters the Knicks will dump him next season

Stinkyoutsider
07-13-2015, 03:30 PM
I understand the Knicks moves in free agency the last 2 years but to be honest, no top free agent wants to come to a team that can't win games. Even for a big club like the Knicks.

They're in a tough spot now with Melo in the team because I believe they can't do a true tear down with him on the roster. The Knicks gambled on Phil Jackson, Melo, and living in NY to draw top free agents and it didn't work. Now, they need to make sure they're competitive but not too competitive so they can still get a few high picks and can still draw free agents to the team.

FriedTofuz
07-14-2015, 12:53 AM
Knicks are not better than the Celtics, Magic, Pistons and Hornets. They're going to have a long season, healthy melo or not. The good thing is that porzingis and grant, who I expect to be very good players, to have a impact on their future even though they will most likely lose a top 5 pick to the raptors next season.

FriedTofuz
07-14-2015, 12:55 AM
Knicks are not better than the Celtics, Magic, Pistons and Hornets. They're going to have a long season, healthy melo or not. The good thing is that porzingis and grant, who I expect to be very good players, to have a impact on their future even though they will most likely lose a top 5 pick to the raptors next season.

FriedTofuz
07-14-2015, 12:55 AM
Knicks are not better than the Celtics, Magic, Pistons and Hornets. They're going to have a long season, healthy melo or not. The good thing is that porzingis and grant, who I expect to be very good players, to have a impact on their future even though they will most likely lose a top 5 pick to the raptors next season.

warfelg
07-14-2015, 08:48 AM
Here's the thing with the Knicks to me:
This could all work out and Afflalo can provide a 3nD role, Grant provides some nice transition game stuff, Melo uses those two to pass out of doubles, Porz offers a solid 15-20 MPG where he is a plus offensively and not too terrible defensively, and Lopez anchors the D without getting in the way offensively.

But the flip side. It's ugly.
Afflalo and Melo don't work together because both kinda want the ball. Grant just ends up looking lost because he's a PG good at many things, great at nothing. Melo either gets hurt again or continues his chucking ways. Lopez doesn't offer what you thought defensively.

My good of their offseason:
Got Grant with giving up very little.
Afflalo came cheaper than expected.

The "bad":
They gave Lopez $13M AAV for a guy that averages 9/7 and give a tiny above average D.
Derrick Williams got $5M to be a positionless athlete.

The could go either way:
O'Quinn signing. Could have been hidden or could just be a good in limited role kinda guy.
Porzingis. Does have a nice natural touch. But we said the same thing about so many Euro Bigs now that I'll believe it when it happens and not a moment sooner.

nycericanguy
07-14-2015, 09:28 AM
Here's the thing with the Knicks to me:
This could all work out and Afflalo can provide a 3nD role, Grant provides some nice transition game stuff, Melo uses those two to pass out of doubles, Porz offers a solid 15-20 MPG where he is a plus offensively and not too terrible defensively, and Lopez anchors the D without getting in the way offensively.

But the flip side. It's ugly.
Afflalo and Melo don't work together because both kinda want the ball. Grant just ends up looking lost because he's a PG good at many things, great at nothing. Melo either gets hurt again or continues his chucking ways. Lopez doesn't offer what you thought defensively.

My good of their offseason:
Got Grant with giving up very little.
Afflalo came cheaper than expected.

The "bad":
They gave Lopez $13M AAV for a guy that averages 9/7 and give a tiny above average D.
Derrick Williams got $5M to be a positionless athlete.

The could go either way:
O'Quinn signing. Could have been hidden or could just be a good in limited role kinda guy.
Porzingis. Does have a nice natural touch. But we said the same thing about so many Euro Bigs now that I'll believe it when it happens and not a moment sooner.

agree with most of your post but Afflalo & Melo worked very well together in DEN. Afflalo said he wanted to come back to NY since last year to play with Melo again.

Affalo isn't really a high usage ISO player, he's more a spot shooter, was one of the best midrange shooters in the league last year which is good for the triangle, and he can shoot the 3 ball at 40% also.

Will be interesting to see how it all fits together... FIT is what matters most. The 54 win Knick team started Tyson, Melo, Brewer, Kidd & Felton... not the most talented group but they fit together.

Meanwhile the Tyson, Amare, Melo, Shump, Felton team had more talent but won 37 games.

warfelg
07-14-2015, 09:35 AM
agree with most of your post but Afflalo & Melo worked very well together in DEN. Afflalo said he wanted to come back to NY since last year to play with Melo again.

Affalo isn't really a high usage ISO player, he's more a spot shooter, was one of the best midrange shooters in the league last year which is good for the triangle, and he can shoot the 3 ball at 40% also.

Will be interesting to see how it all fits together... FIT is what matters most. The 54 win Knick team started Tyson, Melo, Brewer, Kidd & Felton... not the most talented group but they fit together.

Meanwhile the Tyson, Amare, Melo, Shump, Felton team had more talent but won 37 games.

I wasn't speaking as a ISO player but as a shooter. Since their time in Denver, Melo has become even more of a ISO guy. Like I said. It can work, but it could also be an issue if Afflalo doesn't touch the ball enough and finishes games with 4/5 shots.

I guess not having their 1st round pick this year means that having a team that might be a 9th-7th seed isn't a bad thing. Mostly too because Afflalo will likely opt out (more to make more than get out), and they got other cap opening in 2016. But the Lopez contract...while a good signing I think Phil bid against himself for him.

nycericanguy
07-14-2015, 09:46 AM
I wasn't speaking as a ISO player but as a shooter. Since their time in Denver, Melo has become even more of a ISO guy. Like I said. It can work, but it could also be an issue if Afflalo doesn't touch the ball enough and finishes games with 4/5 shots.

I guess not having their 1st round pick this year means that having a team that might be a 9th-7th seed isn't a bad thing. Mostly too because Afflalo will likely opt out (more to make more than get out), and they got other cap opening in 2016. But the Lopez contract...while a good signing I think Phil bid against himself for him.

Sadly Afflalo will probably be the best 2nd option Melo has had in NY... alot of Melo's ISO ball in NY has been because of the guys around him... look at how much Lebron had to ISO when you have to rely on JR & Shump as your other scorers.

Afflalo will get plenty of shot opportunities, he should easily get 12-14 shots per game.

warfelg
07-14-2015, 09:53 AM
Sadly Afflalo will probably be the best 2nd option Melo has had in NY... alot of Melo's ISO ball in NY has been because of the guys around him... look at how much Lebron had to ISO when you have to rely on JR & Shump as your other scorers.

Afflalo will get plenty of shot opportunities, he should easily get 12-14 shots per game.

Hopefully. Then again in Cleveland JR and Shump were never meant to be LeBrowns sidekicks. They ended up that due to injuries so I count that as a bad example.

I'm not going to be typical ugly rival fan. I think more likely it works than doesn't work. But I just wouldn't be shocked if it doesn't work. If Afflalo can can get double digit shots per game then I think it works. If he struggles to get that, I think it's close.

warfelg
07-14-2015, 09:55 AM
Sadly Afflalo will probably be the best 2nd option Melo has had in NY... alot of Melo's ISO ball in NY has been because of the guys around him... look at how much Lebron had to ISO when you have to rely on JR & Shump as your other scorers.

Afflalo will get plenty of shot opportunities, he should easily get 12-14 shots per game.

Hopefully. Then again in Cleveland JR and Shump were never meant to be LeBrowns sidekicks. They ended up that due to injuries so I count that as a bad example.

I'm not going to be typical ugly rival fan. I think more likely it works than doesn't work. But I just wouldn't be shocked if it doesn't work. If Afflalo can can get double digit shots per game then I think it works. If he struggles to get that, I think it's close.