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NYKnickFanatic
07-02-2015, 01:14 PM
Chris Broussard ‏@Chris_Broussard 7m7 minutes ago

Sources: Monta Ellis agrees to 4-year deal with Indiana


Chris Broussard ‏@Chris_Broussard 4m4 minutes ago

Monta's deal with Pacers worth $44 million. Player option after 3rd year

Sauces

pebloemer
07-02-2015, 01:17 PM
Good deal for Indy.

LA_Raiders
07-02-2015, 01:18 PM
Good deal

lincecum=future
07-02-2015, 01:19 PM
Far less than I thought Monta was going toget. Good signing

greg_ory_2005
07-02-2015, 01:20 PM
That's actually a solid signing. Especially compared to some other contracts being given out

Aust
07-02-2015, 01:21 PM
I've never been a fan of Ellis, but I think this could work out.

Hawkeye15
07-02-2015, 01:22 PM
I admit I am a huge non-fan of Ellis's game, but compared to some of the ridiculous deals given out so far, this looks very reasonable.

North Yorker
07-02-2015, 01:23 PM
Could be a nice fit. What is Indy planning to do at the 4 spot?

Stunner
07-02-2015, 01:27 PM
@ESPNNBA: Monta Ellis turned down a higher offer from Kings that was $48 million over 4 years. (via @Chris_Broussard) https://t.co/jd8OI40rPr

North Yorker
07-02-2015, 01:28 PM
@ESPNNBA: Monta Ellis turned down a higher offer from Kings that was $48 million over 4 years. (via @Chris_Broussard) https://t.co/jd8OI40rPr

Lol

asandhu23
07-02-2015, 01:30 PM
It's the Vivek effect, people.

leprechaun5
07-02-2015, 01:34 PM
Very good pickup for that stagnant offense.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
07-02-2015, 01:35 PM
Lol

western conference

North Yorker
07-02-2015, 01:36 PM
western conference

I'm laughing because they gave up Stauskas and a 1st to create cap room for a player that wasn't gonna sign there anyway. If they don't land Wes then they really screwed up. Rondo doesn't make them any better.

D-Block21-Chito
07-02-2015, 01:37 PM
East is doing pretty good so far...

mngopher35
07-02-2015, 01:43 PM
Nice price for him compared to other contracts. I actually think this could be a solid fit as pacers seem to be a bit short on offensive talent.

LakersIn5
07-02-2015, 02:04 PM
Great signing. Cheaper than danny green but a better player

goingfor28
07-02-2015, 02:08 PM
Now if Roy Hibbert can get his head out of his *** and Paul George back they should be solid again.

tredigs
07-02-2015, 04:19 PM
@ESPNNBA: Monta Ellis turned down a higher offer from Kings that was $48 million over 4 years. (via @Chris_Broussard) https://t.co/jd8OI40rPr

If I was a Sac fan at this point I would be saying, "you know what, Kings, we were wrong. Please move and leave us alone".

They essentially dumped their future (in the form of their #1's) in the hopes of signing one of Wes Matthews, Monta Ellis or Rajon Rondo. Already laughable/insane as is, and now Monta's done. Not to mention they made a terrible 1st round draft pick with multiple intriguing/potent pieces still on the board. Has to be the most ridiculously run organization in the 3 major US sports.

As for the Pacers, great signing. Whether they keep him or use it with Hibbert as a trade chip, this is great value for a guy who would fit very nicely next to a healthy PG.

Wade n Fade
07-02-2015, 04:23 PM
Pacers with a good bargain for Monta. Why does he want to go to Indy is besides me. Paul George is the only good guy there. Roy Hibbert is soft, George Hill is a backup PG starting, Luis Scola is a bench guy, and the Pacers are not a major market. I think it will bite Dallas in the butt when he plays well as a playmaking SG that can create his own shot. He played well at times in Dallas. He didn't mesh with Rondo because it's.... Rondo.

jakub
07-02-2015, 04:26 PM
Best deal of the off season

KnicksorBust
07-02-2015, 05:03 PM
Wow everyone likes this signing? Not me. I don't see Ellis being nearly as good as he was in dallas and he had some shaky efficiency issues even playing with Tyson/Dirk frontcourt.

tredigs
07-02-2015, 05:09 PM
Wow everyone likes this signing? Not me. I don't see Ellis being nearly as good as he was in dallas and he had some shaky efficiency issues even playing with Tyson/Dirk frontcourt.

They're a team desperate for some more scoring ability and defensively they can shore up his deficiencies. It's a pretty ideal spot for him and they got him as cheap as you could possibly expect him to go.

IndyRealist
07-02-2015, 05:18 PM
Wow everyone likes this signing? Not me. I don't see Ellis being nearly as good as he was in dallas and he had some shaky efficiency issues even playing with Tyson/Dirk frontcourt.

Well i hate this deal, but it's not the end of the world for the Pacers. Still waiting to see how Hibbert shakes out.

KnicksorBust
07-02-2015, 06:01 PM
Wow everyone likes this signing? Not me. I don't see Ellis being nearly as good as he was in dallas and he had some shaky efficiency issues even playing with Tyson/Dirk frontcourt.

They're a team desperate for some more scoring ability and defensively they can shore up his deficiencies. It's a pretty ideal spot for him and they got him as cheap as you could possibly expect him to go.

That is the same warped logic that leads to most bad signings like Amir Johnson, Aminu, Ellis, Thad Young, Etc.

People don't learn.

KnicksorBust
07-02-2015, 06:01 PM
Wow everyone likes this signing? Not me. I don't see Ellis being nearly as good as he was in dallas and he had some shaky efficiency issues even playing with Tyson/Dirk frontcourt.

Well i hate this deal, but it's not the end of the world for the Pacers. Still waiting to see how Hibbert shakes out.

You wanna keep him or trade him?

tredigs
07-02-2015, 06:22 PM
That is the same warped logic that leads to most bad signings like Amir Johnson, Aminu, Ellis, Thad Young, Etc.

People don't learn.

Can you elaborate on that? I see each individual situation far differently, and find it ignorant at best to group random free agents of varying skill levels and positions to different teams as a single idea.

At worst, he's a trade chip w/ Hibbert at this contract level. What other path would you have recommended Indy pursue at this point in free agency? Matthews post ACL? Rondo? Stay put and sit on 10+ million?...

KnicksorBust
07-02-2015, 06:30 PM
That is the same warped logic that leads to most bad signings like Amir Johnson, Aminu, Ellis, Thad Young, Etc.

People don't learn.

Can you elaborate on that? I see each individual situation far differently, and find it ignorant at best to group random free agents of varying skill levels and positions to different teams as a single idea.

At worst, he's a trade chip w/ Hibbert at this contract level. What other path would you have recommended Indy pursue at this point in free agency? Matthews post ACL? Rondo? Stay put and sit on 10+ million?...

Have to coach a summer league game. Will respond later.

IndyRealist
07-02-2015, 06:55 PM
You wanna keep him or trade him?
The Pacers are making no more moves so they don't need the cap space. Regardless of what people think, Roy's been a top 3 or 4 defensive center for the last several years. Without him anchoring, i think they're in the lottery again. Their D is miserable whenever he sits.

Monta is vastly overrated because he scores a lot of points, not because he's good at scoring. He doesn't help much and eats up cap space, though after this year it won't be a huge #. He'll have a couple of 30+ games and everyone will ooh and aah and forget the 1-11 he had the night before.

tredigs
07-02-2015, 07:13 PM
The Pacers are making no more moves so they don't need the cap space. Regardless of what people think, Roy's been a top 3 or 4 defensive center for the last several years. Without him anchoring, i think they're in the lottery again. Their D is miserable whenever he sits.

Monta is vastly overrated because he scores a lot of points, not because he's good at scoring. He doesn't help much and eats up cap space, though after this year it won't be a huge #. He'll have a couple of 30+ games and everyone will ooh and aah and forget the 1-11 he had the night before.

That's the baseline/standard critique of Monta, but there are situations where he is clearly a net+, and I think playing alongside PG as a #2 is one of those situations. His personal #'s in a vacuum are definitely not outstanding, but he's a player who can create panic in a defense and will be open to defer if/when collapses occur. It's too bad that his 3pt shot never continued to develop after he left GS (where it was bordering on an extremely reliable/effective weapon in his final stretch), but he's still going to offer PG some room to operate in an offense that was otherwise absolutely devoid of skilled options w/ D. West gone. They'll still be a weak O, but you probably won't be bottom 5 in the NBA with Ellis offering relief (which is where they very likely would have been).

And again, at this price, it's still trade bait. What were your other options?

Lol at Monta being vastly overrated btw. He's the most popular player in the league to brush off as fools gold. His deficiencies are more popular than he is by a stretch. Him leaving GS in the Bucks trade was the best day of my Warriors fandom to that point, but he's still a useful player in certain systems.

IndyRealist
07-02-2015, 09:54 PM
That's the baseline/standard critique of Monta, but there are situations where he is clearly a net+, and I think playing alongside PG as a #2 is one of those situations. His personal #'s in a vacuum are definitely not outstanding, but he's a player who can create panic in a defense and will be open to defer if/when collapses occur. It's too bad that his 3pt shot never continued to develop after he left GS (where it was bordering on an extremely reliable/effective weapon in his final stretch), but he's still going to offer PG some room to operate in an offense that was otherwise absolutely devoid of skilled options w/ D. West gone. They'll still be a weak O, but you probably won't be bottom 5 in the NBA with Ellis offering relief (which is where they very likely would have been).

And again, at this price, it's still trade bait. What were your other options?

Lol at Monta being vastly overrated btw. He's the most popular player in the league to brush off as fools gold. His deficiencies are more popular than he is by a stretch. Him leaving GS in the Bucks trade was the best day of my Warriors fandom to that point, but he's still a useful player in certain systems.

We're going with the Melo effect to justify having Monta on the floor? Even if it did exist, which I haven't seen anyone prove in a large sample size, and even if the effect was significant for the tertiary players, what you're essentially saying is that it is justifiable let a poor shooter take a high volume of shots to make a low volume player shoot a bit better. Possessions are incredibly important, and wasting a high number of them to get a low number of higher percentage shots is just insane on the face of it.

Monta is best at long 2's, and we all know by now that the long 2 is the worst shot in the game. Now, there is a VERY limited set of circumstances that shooting the long 2 is the ideal shot. That mostly boils down to being down 2 with the shot clock off and the defense is denying the 3 and the paint. Then it is useful to have a long 2 guy on the floor. Even in that circumstance I'll take a drive to the rim for the potential foul over paying a guy $11M/yr to hang around and wait for a situation that happens 2 or 3 times a season, all the while screwing the rest of my games.

I know I'm hard on him, mostly because I'm disappointed my team isn't more analytically aware. Monta is a useful offensive player at times, but not for his shooting or the Melo effect or anything in that regard. He is useful for his ballhandling and passing. Those skills absolutely create better shots for his teammates, which is proven. But again, that does not justify the large volume of poor shots Ellis takes.

And we haven't even touched on his defense yet, which I've never heard described better than "he tries hard". 6'2" George Hill can only switch on so many SGs, and moving Paul George over to guard Monta's man creates a HUGE mismatch with Ellis guarding a SF.

I will say though, that his contract is tradeable. Not because of it's value, because as I've stated he's a net minus player and net minus players aren't worth $11M/yr. But because people still believe that players like Monta somehow contribute positively to their teams, despite all evidence to the contrary. There's always some sucker GM who poo poo's analytics and makes guts decisions based on how basketball was back when he was playing. Right now, that sucker is Larry Bird.

KnicksorBust
07-02-2015, 09:56 PM
Can you elaborate on that? I see each individual situation far differently,

In general that is a smart rule.


and find it ignorant at best to group random free agents

I find it ignorant to assume that the free agents I listed were random. :)


of varying skill levels and positions to different teams as a single idea.

It's not a "single idea" as much as underlining principles that I use to decide if I like a signing or not. Each player brings a value to a team and it is subjective to determine what the value is for each free agent. However, generally people seem to use the market to compare similar players and use that as a barometer. Personally I think that is lazy but it does help start the conversation. In certain situations I even think it's okay to overpay (based on market value) for a free agent. For example:

#1.) If the team is a championship contender and the FA can take them to the next level. (see: Thompson/Shumpert)
#2.) The FA fills an overwhelming need. (See: Omer Asik)
#3.) The FA is young with terrific upside. (See: Kawhi Leonard)
#4.) The FA is a great fit with the team. (See: Draymond Green)

Now those examples aren't perfect but you get the idea. To me, those are the times it makes sense to spend your cap space. I find more often than not that teams feel too obligated to spend spend spend. Especially the bad teams. In this situation, the Pacers are not a championship contender, Ellis is not young with upside (30 & past his prime), and I don't believe he works well with Hibbert/George. He also doesn't space the floor and with West's mid-range game leaving town the lane is going to be clogged up. Ellis had his perfect situation in Dallas with all those pick and roll sets and Chandler/Dirk in the frontcourt and he still couldn't even produce average efficiency. Indiana will be even worse and they are committed for 4 years to him.


At worst, he's a trade chip w/ Hibbert at this contract level.

Respectfully disagree. If it's not working out I think it would be a challenge to trade a 4 year contracts for declining 30 year old guard who can't shoot.


What other path would you have recommended Indy pursue at this point in free agency? Matthews post ACL? Rondo? Stay put and sit on 10+ million?...

I'm tempted to say Matthews but I agree the injury makes him a big risk. I'd rather use that money to sign a few cheap vets to 1-2 year deals that you can get rid of quickly or even roll over the cap space then waste it.

If you want me to get more specific about Amir/Aminu/Thad I will but I think by reading this response you will understand my perspective on those signings as well.

tredigs
07-02-2015, 11:26 PM
I see both of your points -- don't agree entirely but I don't have the energy or care for a back and forth on everything. The bottom line though for me is that it boils down to, "what else". Totally disagree that they'll have trouble moving that deal if they see it fit.

KnicksorBust
07-03-2015, 09:12 AM
I see both of your points -- don't agree entirely but I don't have the energy or care for a back and forth on everything. The bottom line though for me is that it boils down to, "what else". Totally disagree that they'll have trouble moving that deal if they see it fit.

That is exactly the type of mentality that has a team like the Celtics committing $60 million to role players that won't make them relevant. Terrible financial strategies keep teams in basketball purgatory and/or stuck in the lottery. The Utah Jazz of the last few years are a great example. Let's resign Kanter, Favors, Hayward all to huge deals that cap us out even though we never make the playoffs.