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View Full Version : *General Manager* LeBron hurting Cleveland?



Nikeman
07-02-2015, 12:14 AM
Loved him as a HEAT fan, and supported him for his title quest in Cleveland, but I personally think what he's doing is just setting horrible precedents for the league and I hate to see it.

You already see players like Jimmy Butler wanting to sign year to year deals like LeBron to give themselves ultimate flexibility. It just sets a bad precedent for future stars who want to hold their teams hostage.

As far as some of the signings Cleveland's made, its just sad to see. Tristan Thompson is nowhere near worth 80 million. Hell he's not even worth 40 million in my opinion. Being able to rebound does not make you a max player. Dude has no offensive game, and offensively kills the Cavs floor spacing. I guess being "LeBron's boy" gets you a max deal from Cleveland. Rich Paul or whoever that agent is should dedicate his entire agency to LeBron, and TT should donate half his paycheck to LeBron.

Its just sad to see a player hold an entire organization hostage and force them into ridiculous decisions that everyone knows is dumb. Committing 190 million to Love/TT is pure stupidity. Especially with Love playing 35 mins, they are going to pay TT 15 mill a year to play 20-25 mins a game.

At this rate, may as well sign Durant's boys to max deals for 2016 in order to lure Durant himself as a selling point. Just don't like the precedent LeBron is setting for the future as the younger guys see this. Great player who does amazing things on the court, but the ego is just too big.

Wade n Fade
07-02-2015, 12:18 AM
Yes, but the Cavs owner is an idiot. He is two faced and then kisses LeBron's fat behind to get him to stay. Cavs are going to give away all their space because thy want to keep their team together from last yr and get bargains from vet min and mmle. Bad news for the Cavs is JJ Barrea might go to the Heat, meaning that the LeBron Stopper can prevent him from posting up.

ManRam
07-02-2015, 12:22 AM
They're gonna be over the cap, and the luxury tax line, regardless of how much TT, Shump, Love etc. are getting. If Gilbert is willing to fork out the money, fine. But, in terms of free agency, trades, or any personnel move, it doesn't matter if you're a dollar over the luxury tax or a billion. It only matters, again, to Dan Gilbert's bank accounts. And who the **** cares about that? :laugh:


For example: Miami didn't have any more flexibility than what Cleveland now has. After the Big 3 were there they were always going to be over the cap. Everyone they signed was for the minimum or the exceptions. Ray was probably their best ever FA signing after assembled, and he signed for the mini-MLE...something Cleveland can use too. Everything Miami could do Cleveland can do as well. So, one last time, the only thing LeBron is screwing over is Gilbert...and he's clearly 150% willing.

On Lowe's podcast with Marc Stein this was brought up. Gilbert is willing to soar over the luxury tax line...Micky/Riley weren't. That's the core difference here.

Nikeman
07-02-2015, 12:27 AM
They're gonna be over the cap, and the luxury tax line, regardless of how much TT, Shump, Love etc. are getting. If Gilbert is willing to fork out the money, fine. But, in terms of free agency, trades, or any personnel move, it doesn't matter if you're a dollar over the luxury tax or a billion. It only matters, again, to Dan Gilbert's bank accounts. And who the **** cares about that? :laugh:


For example: Miami didn't have any more flexibility than what Cleveland now has. After the Big 3 were there they were always going to be over the cap. Everyone they signed was for the minimum or the exceptions. Ray was probably their best ever FA signing after assembled, and he signed for the mini-MLE...something Cleveland can use too. Everything Miami could do Cleveland can do as well. So, one last time, the only thing LeBron is screwing over is Gilbert...and he's clearly 150% willing.

On Lowe's podcast with Marc Stein this was brought up. Gilbert is willing to soar over the luxury tax line...Micky/Riley weren't. That's the core difference here.

Yeah, sad our billion dollar owner is a cheapo to be honest. But with the salary cap projected to hit I believe 107 million in a couple years, by giving out such dumb contracts to players like TT the Cavs will have no flexibility for 5 years and severely hamper signings down the road.

And to be honest, I would not trust half their roster to play an entire season

WITZ
07-02-2015, 12:29 AM
They're gonna be over the cap, and the luxury tax line, regardless of how much TT, Shump, Love etc. are getting. If Gilbert is willing to fork out the money, fine. But, in terms of free agency, trades, or any personnel move, it doesn't matter if you're a dollar over the luxury tax or a billion. It only matters, again, to Dan Gilbert's bank accounts. And who the **** cares about that? :laugh:


For example: Miami didn't have any more flexibility than what Cleveland now has. After the Big 3 were there they were always going to be over the cap. Everyone they signed was for the minimum or the exceptions. Ray was probably their best ever FA signing after assembled, and he signed for the mini-MLE...something Cleveland can use too. Everything Miami could do Cleveland can do as well. So, one last time, the only thing LeBron is screwing over is Gilbert...and he's clearly 150% willing.

On Lowe's podcast with Marc Stein this was brought up. Gilbert is willing to soar over the luxury tax line...Micky/Riley weren't. That's the core difference here.

Exactly, If he is willing to spend the money thats on him not my money . All i care about is that he opened up the checkbook and has kept the young core in tact.

ManRam
07-02-2015, 12:29 AM
Yeah, sad our billion dollar owner is a cheapo to be honest. But with the salary cap projected to hit I believe 107 million in a couple years, by giving out such dumb contracts to players like TT the Cavs will have no flexibility for 5 years and severely hamper signings down the road.

And to be honest, I would not trust half their roster to play an entire season

I mean, we'll see how it plays out after the CBA negotiations. It's a little difficult to prognosticate. But for this upcoming season, it genuinely doesn't matter one bit. There's nothing they would be able to do differently if they were more cheap.

Maybe it does backfire...but for now, they kept to core of an NBA Finals team in tact. That's a no-brainer.

More-Than-Most
07-02-2015, 12:34 AM
go look at greens contract and on down the list.... horrid deals across the board today

True Sports Fan
07-02-2015, 12:39 AM
It'll be fine when Cleveland is winning rings

Nikeman
07-02-2015, 12:42 AM
It'll be fine when Cleveland is winning rings

They better pray the Spurs dont get LA, and OKC doesn't develop into the beast it can be. The Cavs also have a roster primarily made of glass (Varejao, Love, Irving, Shump). 4 of the core players you guys have cannot be counted on for an entire season.

Cal827
07-02-2015, 02:41 AM
Man, with all of these huge deals being signed, we have ignored two things.

Lebron and Wade are still free agents :laugh2:

Scoots
07-02-2015, 03:02 AM
It does matter how much over the tax line you are and how long you are there.

$1.50 per $1 dollar ratio for teams up to $5 million over, up to $3.75 per $1 for teams between $20-$25 million over and increasing by an extra $.50 for every extra $5 million over that.

So if you stay over the tax limit it jumps the 2nd year to $2.50 per $1 for teams up to $5 million over and up to $4.75 per $1 for teams between $20-$25 million over, etc.

Needless to say those sorts of penalties can take a team from profitable to a major loser financially and even rich guys get tired of paying $100M extra money each year with no titles and the team not improving.

The biggest non-money thing is that tax paying teams also lose the MLE which is a significant chunk of money (around $5M per year with a max 5 years) and often brings in a starting quality players. That is just gone when you are over the tax now.

numba1CHANGsta
07-02-2015, 03:23 AM
Cavs fans have no right to hate on people for hating on LeBron when they did the same when he left, so sorry Cavs fans you have no say when people talk smack about your boy LeBron when you guys did the exact same plus worse when he left the team. I bet if LeBron left again and came back in 4-5 years Cavs fans would be all over his sack again. LeBron owns the team, the coaches, the players, the owners, and the fans lmao

yasharel
07-02-2015, 03:58 AM
It would be so awesome if lebron said ehhh im leaving.

Bostonjorge
07-02-2015, 04:31 AM
It would be so awesome if lebron said ehhh im leaving.

Would put him in the top 10.

thenaj17
07-02-2015, 05:08 AM
I mean, we'll see how it plays out after the CBA negotiations. It's a little difficult to prognosticate. But for this upcoming season, it genuinely doesn't matter one bit. There's nothing they would be able to do differently if they were more cheap.

Maybe it does backfire...but for now, they kept to core of an NBA Finals team in tact. That's a no-brainer.

Exactly this Manram. Gilbert is betting on Love/Irving being the difference next time. They have a stacked team so why change it? LeBron has a great 5 years ahead of him with Love, Thompson and Shump all signed for that long.

JasonJohnHorn
07-02-2015, 06:43 AM
First off, teams would like to see guys sign-one year deals. If they get injured they don't have to worry about paying them for three or four years while they are in a cast or playing like $#!T. This is why the CBA has been pushing to make deals shorted every time. THAT is what the OWNERS want, not what the players want. This one-year thing was only so that he could get a bigger pay raise the second year because he took a discount.

You might remember players used to be able to sign for as long as they wanted and as long as teams were wiling. Shaq signed like a 7-year deal with the Lakers and that became standard, with guys likew Rashard Lewis signing these big deals. Teams pushed it down to 6 and not 5 (only 4 if it isn't your own free agent). If players had their way, they'd sign 10-year deals.

As for what Tristan is making, it is 15 million. If LBJ hadn't come last year and they kept Wiggins, they would have been offering Tristan the same amount because they'd want to keep him. But that said, 16 million a year is not unreasonable for him, especially given that the cap is going UP next year... a LOT. This deal will look very reasonable after that.


Plus it keeps your players happy. They were 2 wins away from an NBA championship with this roster and they were missing to All-Stars in the finals. If they want to win, they need to keep this team together, and if they want to keep LBJ (who makes the team FAR more profitable), then they need to make sure they keep the team competitive.

I don't see an issue with any of this

MonroeFAN
07-02-2015, 06:50 AM
two part response to this topic.

Yes, Lebron is hurting Cleveland. His demands have been ridiculous, and the idea that he's still not under contract after basically forcing his hand with your line up is really sad. I am becoming less of a fan of his, admittedly, because of this off-season.

Then I think, Lebron is Cleveland. Without him they would likely be a sub 30 win team.

sep11ie
07-02-2015, 06:54 AM
Sho is salty in here...

But yea, **** Lebron.

Yanks All Day
07-02-2015, 08:35 AM
Cleveland didn't have the money to make any impact signings. They could only keep their own and trade Haywood or use their MLE. This was a team that was 2 wins away from winning the NBA title WITHOUT 2 of their best 3 players. If the owner is willing to pony up and pay, fans should be ecstatic about that.

As for the way LeBron has handled this: it isn't hostage. It's brilliant. He really likes the team he has now and he believes in it. He wants to ensure that his core guys will be back with him before re-signing. LeBron is forcing the hand of ownership that didn't put any talent of value around him the first time around. He's making them make moves.

Financially, too, this is genius by LeBron. He's going to make so much more money by doing this over the next few years that it's almost silly. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a player getting as much money as he possibly can if the rules allow it. This offseason, LeBron is getting the team he wants and the money he wants, and the Cavaliers will be contending for at least the next 5 years. I don't see a loser in this situation, other than the rest of the Eastern Conference.

The Thompson deal only looks big this year. When that cap goes up again, $15 million per year for his rebounding will be more than reasonable.
Kevin Love is still one of the best players in the NBA. He was getting max money anywhere he went. And he's still only 26.
Iman Shumpert making $10 million per is pretty average for a 3 and D guy. He's a great defender, and if he ever consistently creates his own shot, he's a steal.
Kyrie Irving is only 23 years old. As long as he stays healthy, no matter how much he makes over the next few years, it's a great deal.

Spending money to keep your core together and compete is what it should be about. That's what's best for the fans and the team. If they let Thompson walk because of the tax and he goes somewhere else and they lose on poor rebounding, every single person in here would say "Look at that cheap owner letting players walk instead of getting taxed!" You can't have it both ways. The Cavs are doing what's best for their team. They have a window and they're taking it.

ewing
07-02-2015, 09:05 AM
I mean, we'll see how it plays out after the CBA negotiations. It's a little difficult to prognosticate. But for this upcoming season, it genuinely doesn't matter one bit. There's nothing they would be able to do differently if they were more cheap.

Maybe it does backfire...but for now, they kept to core of an NBA Finals team in tact. That's a no-brainer.


tell that to the guy that bolted on 2 of them :)

True Sports Fan
07-02-2015, 10:21 AM
lol people on this site will do anything to hate on Bron but if their team signed him they'd be first one to praise him

Scoots
07-02-2015, 10:53 AM
Exactly this Manram. Gilbert is betting on Love/Irving being the difference next time. They have a stacked team so why change it? LeBron has a great 5 years ahead of him with Love, Thompson and Shump all signed for that long.

But where is the bench guard play coming from? Good C, good backup C, good PF, good backup PF, good SF, good PG ... then there is Shump and what else? Harris?

Is JR going to re-sign too? Miller? Marion? Jones? ... and if not them then who and how are they going to get paid?

TopsyTurvy
07-02-2015, 11:54 AM
The TV money mishandling (that the cap was allowed to expand this fast) and the rift between the Union and owners all lines up to what may very well be another lockout in 2017. The Player's Union is still upset about giving up points on the last deal and owners no doubt feel completely at the mercy of player demands and will likely look to retain their share of the expanding revenue stream.

The fact that agencies are now looking to maximize EVERY free agency deal isn't surprising, it's indicative of the overall health of the league - it's a good thing that will get ugly when the next labor negotiation comes up.

Vee-Rex
07-02-2015, 12:13 PM
Cavs fans have no right to hate on people for hating on LeBron when they did the same when he left, so sorry Cavs fans you have no say when people talk smack about your boy LeBron when you guys did the exact same plus worse when he left the team. I bet if LeBron left again and came back in 4-5 years Cavs fans would be all over his sack again. LeBron owns the team, the coaches, the players, the owners, and the fans lmao

Except you hate on LeBron because you're butthurt and insecure about him possibly being better than your man-love Kobe.

Cavs fans hated on LeBron because of the way and manner in which he left C-Town. I guarantee any group of fans would react the same with their franchise player.

Scoots
07-02-2015, 12:27 PM
The LeBron/Kobe/MJ stuff is tired.

How is GM LeBron going to improve his bench guards? Right now there is only Harris as far as I can see.

ManRam
07-02-2015, 12:53 PM
tell that to the guy that bolted on 2 of them :)

Well, sure. But if you can't see how this is different then I'm sorry. He's not leaving. He can't. He won't.

Vee-Rex
07-02-2015, 01:04 PM
The LeBron/Kobe/MJ stuff is tired.

How is GM LeBron going to improve his bench guards? Right now there is only Harris as far as I can see.

Free agency isn't over. I'm sure we can bring in some vets for the minimum who could be decent coming off the bench.

When you've got Irving/Love, you don't need a bench guard that is gonna drop lots of points.

AS IS, we are contenders. Adding pieces will only help. Our only and main focus is trying to be healthy for the whole year. It's a pretty big deal, so I'm hoping the Cavs organization try things to help Love/Irving be healthy.