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Stunner
07-01-2015, 12:04 PM
@DeMarreCarroll1: #WeThe North I will be playing for Toronto Raptors next year!!!! I'm Blessed for this Opportunity! https://t.co/pBK6NvRVcE

Stunner
07-01-2015, 12:07 PM
@WojYahooNBA: DeMarre Carroll has agreed to a four year, $60M deal with Toronto, league source tells Yahoo.

5ass
07-01-2015, 12:11 PM
Solid signing. Just not sure raptors should be wasting cap space on role players.

KnicksorBust
07-01-2015, 12:11 PM
That is big money but I like Carroll a lot. Nice singing by the Raps. One big man away from a threat in the East.

MonroeFAN
07-01-2015, 12:12 PM
Thank god.

- Pistons fan

thomass
07-01-2015, 12:13 PM
Wow. Carroll should thank the Hawks. We made him a 60 million dollar player. Let's see how he does outside the "system."

Stunner
07-01-2015, 12:14 PM
Taj and a pick for James Johnson and Ross lets go

Stunner
07-01-2015, 12:15 PM
Solid signing. Just not sure raptors should be wasting cap space on role players.

No big time FA coming there , Carroll fills that SF spot don't have to start Ross anymore . Carroll was the almost the best hawk in the playoffs

Jarvo
07-01-2015, 12:15 PM
So Ross or Derozan leaving?

Knick_Fever
07-01-2015, 12:18 PM
lol holy ****! They overpaid by about $20 mil. Wow. Good player though and I guess they had to if they wanted any chance of beating out the competition.

Sadds The Gr8
07-01-2015, 12:20 PM
Solid signing. Just not sure raptors should be wasting cap space on role players.
who else are they gonna get? they have no chance at big names which is why they signed him so quickly. LMA and Love didn't even give us a shot so...

So Ross or Derozan leaving?

most likely Ross, maybe both.

HoopsDrive
07-01-2015, 12:23 PM
Cya later Ross

aman_13
07-01-2015, 12:23 PM
lol holy ****! They overpaid by about $20 mil. Wow. Good player though and I guess they had to if they wanted any chance of beating out the competition.

I think it's going to take a while for fans to take in the cap increase.

NYKnickFanatic
07-01-2015, 12:24 PM
This is Carroll's biggest payday of his career, probably will be the most he ever makes.

I have no problem with him cashing in. Good for him, he earned it!

sportsfanatic99
07-01-2015, 12:24 PM
Ross backups Demar now.... a role he seem designed for and position he is more suited for IMO.

Ty_Lawson
07-01-2015, 12:26 PM
I hope that after this, Farieds contract won't look like neg. value in trades...

GoferKing_
07-01-2015, 12:26 PM
Wow! All these so so players getting paid...

MonroeFAN
07-01-2015, 12:26 PM
Cap increase shmap increase. He was an MLE like talent under the old CBA, and he's a 8-10 type of player in the new one. 15 per?

Byronicle
07-01-2015, 12:27 PM
Taj and a pick for James Johnson and Ross lets go

I'd be on board for that

Knick_Fever
07-01-2015, 12:30 PM
I think it's going to take a while for fans to take in the cap increase.

Cant argue there, you got a point.

Stunner
07-01-2015, 12:33 PM
i'd be on board for that

lets gooooo

Byronicle
07-01-2015, 12:37 PM
lets gooooo

Don't you guys like Taj? I love that guy

Stunner
07-01-2015, 12:41 PM
Don't you guys like Taj? I love that guy

Got enough Bigs , need more athletic wings

AllBall
07-01-2015, 12:43 PM
I think it's going to take a while for fans to take in the cap increase.

We've been talking about it for 2 years already and people still don't get it. lol @ thinking these are big numbers :facepalm:

ManRam
07-01-2015, 12:48 PM
I think this is a tremendous get for Toronto, and this is coming from someone who's generally skeptical of Carroll. It's a great fit.

$15M is a lot, but it's the going rate. $12-15 gets you these types of players now. I think he's probably worth closer to the $12M than the $15M, but ultimately that might not mean anything at all. At some point during the life of this contract, $15M might be like 12-15% of the cap. 15% of the cap for a guy like Carroll? Probably worth it.

mjt20mik
07-01-2015, 12:48 PM
In two years.. 15 million is 15% of cap...

How is that overpay? Do people really even know whats going on with the league.

MonroeFAN
07-01-2015, 12:52 PM
Ok, so if you have 5 starters all making 15% of salary, how much is that?

If Carol is on level with your best starter then your team sucks. Some organizations will be smarter with their money, and you will see it pay dividends.

nycericanguy
07-01-2015, 12:58 PM
In two years.. 15 million is 15% of cap...

How is that overpay? Do people really even know whats going on with the league.

its an overpay this year and next, but it will look fine for the last 2 years of his deal when the cap is 108m.

Good for Carroll, this dude was bouncing around the league a couple of years ago struggling to even make a teams rotation and now he's the highest paid player on an NBA team... crazy.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
07-01-2015, 12:59 PM
Raptors just need to find a suitor for DeRozan now.

Stunner
07-01-2015, 01:01 PM
Nobody cares about this year it's all about the future

Stunner
07-01-2015, 01:02 PM
Raptors just need to find a suitor for DeRozan now.

Nobody want him and his soon to want 25 mill

North Yorker
07-01-2015, 01:08 PM
Ok, so if you have 5 starters all making 15% of salary, how much is that?

If Carol is on level with your best starter then your team sucks. Some organizations will be smarter with their money, and you will see it pay dividends.

Raps have 4 1st rounders the next two drafts. They'll have money to throw around for their starting lineup because they'll most likely have rookie contracts making up the bench, with the wildcard being the Knicks/Nuggets 2016 1st they own.

ManRam
07-01-2015, 01:08 PM
its an overpay this year and next, but it will look fine for the last 2 years of his deal when the cap is 108m.

Good for Carroll, this dude was bouncing around the league a couple of years ago struggling to even make a teams rotation and now he's the highest paid player on an NBA team... crazy.

The CBA negotiations start next summer. So, it could be "fine" for 3/4ths of that contract.


MonroeFAN thinks he's worth the current MLE, which is just patently false. I'm sure 90% of teams would gladly give him their full MLE. But say he's only off by $2M. That's a shade under $8M a year under the current cap. Under the projected 2016-17 cap (let's say 109), he's making 13.8% of the cap. 13.8% of next year's cap is $9.5M. Maybe it's an overpay by a couple million a year...but the odds of that ever mattering are slim to none.

No one really is getting overpaid this summer if they're signing long-term deals. Most of this will look like bargains in the future.

mjt20mik
07-01-2015, 01:17 PM
Ok, so if you have 5 starters all making 15% of salary, how much is that?

If Carol is on level with your best starter then your team sucks. Some organizations will be smarter with their money, and you will see it pay dividends.

I lied.. its looking like 109 million will be the cap.. so closer to 10 percent

deaner
07-01-2015, 01:22 PM
lol holy ****! They overpaid by about $20 mil. Wow. Good player though and I guess they had to if they wanted any chance of beating out the competition.

A knick fan says as they try desperately to recruit Perkins.

Stunner
07-01-2015, 01:25 PM
Raptors just need to find a suitor for DeRozan now.

Nobody want him and his soon to want 25 mill

mjt20mik
07-01-2015, 02:21 PM
Jeff Zillgitt ‏@JeffZillgitt 12m12 minutes ago
The Knicks, I'm told, were ready to offer DeMarre Carroll same/similar deal that Toronto did, but Carroll jumped at Raptors' outlook.

nycericanguy
07-01-2015, 02:26 PM
I lied.. its looking like 109 million will be the cap.. so closer to 10 percent

in fairness thats 3 years from now when DMC's deal will almost be up.

CAp projects at

69m this year
90m next
109 in 2017

the cap projects to average about $93m during the 4 year contract, so over the life of the deal you're looking at 16% of the cap. It will average out to be a very fair deal.

aman_13
07-01-2015, 02:36 PM
Jeff Zillgitt ‏@JeffZillgitt 12m12 minutes ago
The Knicks, I'm told, were ready to offer DeMarre Carroll same/similar deal that Toronto did, but Carroll jumped at Raptors' outlook.

Someone should tell that to Spears and whoever that executive was.

bucketss
07-01-2015, 02:40 PM
what the hell? 60 mill for this dude?

MonroeFAN
07-01-2015, 04:29 PM
I lied.. its looking like 109 million will be the cap.. so closer to 10 percent

It doesn't matter if you lied or not. It's still 50-60% of your team salary on your starting 5 assuming they're all equal to Carol. Carol should be the worst starter on your team. Smart teams like OKC are signing players like Kyle Singler for 5 a year, these contracts do exist.

Demarre Carol sucks, I'm sorry dude. Like I don't know what to say. 15 million?

bucketss
07-01-2015, 04:32 PM
Nobody want him and his soon to want 25 mill

well if thats true than he obviously won't be getting that much,

bucketss
07-01-2015, 04:33 PM
It doesn't matter if you lied or not. It's still 50-60% of your team salary on your starting 5 assuming they're all equal to Carol. Carol should be the worst starter on your team. Smart teams like OKC are signing players like Kyle Singler for 5 a year, these contracts do exist.

Demarre Carol sucks, I'm sorry dude. Like I don't know what to say. 15 million?

overpaid yes, but he sucks? we all saw he could be a solid starting wing player last year.

MonroeFAN
07-01-2015, 04:48 PM
Aright maybe he doesn't suck. But he needs to be an average or below average starter for his philosophy to have any merit. That's not a winning basketball program.

dtmagnet
07-01-2015, 05:47 PM
Aright maybe he doesn't suck. But he needs to be an average or below average starter for his philosophy to have any merit. That's not a winning basketball program.

Just stop.

Shammyguy3
07-01-2015, 05:57 PM
Carroll was one of the most efficient players in the league this year, and as a two-way player that takes a lot of shots at the rim and beyond the arc at a high rate, this is not a player that sucks. He can easily be a contending team's 3rd best player.

MonroeFAN
07-01-2015, 06:14 PM
Just stop.

Oh please. Whatever you need to do go ahead and do it (ignore me, whatever). None of you are bringing anything of substance to the table. "just stop" lol. Ok buddy. Do you care to actually challenge my opinion with something worth reading? How is it such a difficult concept to understand? You can plan for rookies all you want, but the Raptors will be teetering between the 4-6th seed for a long time most likely. If the cap raises to 109, 15 Mil is 14% of the cap rounded up. So 70% of your cap is going to be dedicated to players who will most likely be of Caroll's skill-level if the trend continues. Do you understand?

Singler signing for 25/5 does not help any of your arguments. A 10 million dollar difference?


He's not the 3rd best player on a contending team. He was the 4th option (barely passing a more efficient Korver) on a team that got absolutely smoked in the playoffs.

mjt20mik
07-01-2015, 06:38 PM
It doesn't matter if you lied or not. It's still 50-60% of your team salary on your starting 5 assuming they're all equal to Carol. Carol should be the worst starter on your team. Smart teams like OKC are signing players like Kyle Singler for 5 a year, these contracts do exist.

Demarre Carol sucks, I'm sorry dude. Like I don't know what to say. 15 million?


Aright maybe he doesn't suck. But he needs to be an average or below average starter for his philosophy to have any merit. That's not a winning basketball program.

Make up your mind. Does he suck or does he not suck? I'm just confused as to what you are trying to say in this thread.

The Raptors went out and addressed 3 areas of concern with this signing (defense, 3PT, SF). Did they overpay for this year... yes. But if you look at other contracts, they all fall into the same line. Will this signing be good for Toronto... who knows.

Do any of us get paid money to comment or evaluate trades... no. So in the end... who gives a ****.

JustinTime
07-01-2015, 07:02 PM
its an overpay this year and next, but it will look fine for the last 2 years of his deal when the cap is 108m.

Good for Carroll, this dude was bouncing around the league a couple of years ago struggling to even make a teams rotation and now he's the highest paid player on an NBA team... crazy.

we don't even know the specifics of the contract it could be backloaded as the cap increases.

JustinTime
07-01-2015, 07:03 PM
He plays D and shoots nearly 40% from the 3 what's not to like?

JasonJohnHorn
07-01-2015, 08:13 PM
People are getting all shocked at the signings. Teams are overpaying because after next year, this will be a steal.

This guy is a great defender, can play both forward spots, and shoots the three.

15 mil a year will be an average salary in two years.

Coupled with that, the Raptors have to make strategic signings because big-name players don't want to play in Toronto. The GM in that city, whoever it is, has to be creative. This is why they rely on European guys a lot, because they don't seem to have the same attitude about playing in Canada that American players have. It doesn't always work out (Turk and Barngani), but it is what it is. This is a handicap that the team will have until they start winning. Detroit has a similar problem, as to a lot of small markets (T-Wolves, Bucks). It's not like they can just clear their cap space and hope to sign Wade, James and Bosh.

zn23
07-01-2015, 08:16 PM
The Raps over pay for the worst available FA....

bucketss
07-01-2015, 08:26 PM
People are getting all shocked at the signings. Teams are overpaying because after next year, this will be a steal.

This guy is a great defender, can play both forward spots, and shoots the three.

15 mil a year will be an average salary in two years.

Coupled with that, the Raptors have to make strategic signings because big-name players don't want to play in Toronto. The GM in that city, whoever it is, has to be creative. This is why they rely on European guys a lot, because they don't seem to have the same attitude about playing in Canada that American players have. It doesn't always work out (Turk and Barngani), but it is what it is. This is a handicap that the team will have until they start winning. Detroit has a similar problem, as to a lot of small markets (T-Wolves, Bucks). It's not like they can just clear their cap space and hope to sign Wade, James and Bosh.

i think its more so because we don't seem like a team that can win it all, we need to draft a star than other stars would see at as more attractive.even the lakers just got turned down because they know they can't win there.

i don't think they have a problem playing in the 6ix.

spreadeagle
07-01-2015, 08:26 PM
great fit, good work Masai

deaner
07-01-2015, 09:13 PM
People are getting all shocked at the signings. Teams are overpaying because after next year, this will be a steal.

This guy is a great defender, can play both forward spots, and shoots the three.

15 mil a year will be an average salary in two years.

Coupled with that, the Raptors have to make strategic signings because big-name players don't want to play in Toronto. The GM in that city, whoever it is, has to be creative. This is why they rely on European guys a lot, because they don't seem to have the same attitude about playing in Canada that American players have. It doesn't always work out (Turk and Barngani), but it is what it is. This is a handicap that the team will have until they start winning. Detroit has a similar problem, as to a lot of small markets (T-Wolves, Bucks). It's not like they can just clear their cap space and hope to sign Wade, James and Bosh.

Ur talking nonsense. How many euros are on the raptors? In the present GMs history how many euros has he had playing for the team? It would only take 10 minutes out of your day to become educated on a topic in which you speak.

mjt20mik
07-01-2015, 09:36 PM
The Raps over pay for the worst available FA....

TBH I would have rather had Tobias Harris at 18 million a year... but he can't shoot

aman_13
07-01-2015, 09:42 PM
People are getting all shocked at the signings. Teams are overpaying because after next year, this will be a steal.

This guy is a great defender, can play both forward spots, and shoots the three.

15 mil a year will be an average salary in two years.

Coupled with that, the Raptors have to make strategic signings because big-name players don't want to play in Toronto. The GM in that city, whoever it is, has to be creative. This is why they rely on European guys a lot, because they don't seem to have the same attitude about playing in Canada that American players have. It doesn't always work out (Turk and Barngani), but it is what it is. This is a handicap that the team will have until they start winning. Detroit has a similar problem, as to a lot of small markets (T-Wolves, Bucks). It's not like they can just clear their cap space and hope to sign Wade, James and Bosh.

The fact that you don't even know who the GM is says a lot about this post. You have no idea what you're talking about.

MonroeFAN
07-02-2015, 06:05 AM
It doesn't matter if you lied or not. It's still 50-60% of your team salary on your starting 5 assuming they're all equal to Carol. Carol should be the worst starter on your team. Smart teams like OKC are signing players like Kyle Singler for 5 a year, these contracts do exist.

Demarre Carol sucks, I'm sorry dude. Like I don't know what to say. 15 million?


Aright maybe he doesn't suck. But he needs to be an average or below average starter for his philosophy to have any merit. That's not a winning basketball program.

Make up your mind. Does he suck or does he not suck? I'm just confused as to what you are trying to say in this thread.

The Raptors went out and addressed 3 areas of concern with this signing (defense, 3PT, SF). Did they overpay for this year... yes. But if you look at other contracts, they all fall into the same line. Will this signing be good for Toronto... who knows.

Do any of us get paid money to comment or evaluate trades... no. So in the end... who gives a ****.

Saying he sucks isn't fair, but he's a mid level player, slightly higher. That should be 9-11 mill per season.

I don't see how your team is going to compete in the future if he is one of your highest paid starters. If you continue on this trend he will be. And if not, you guys are in for cap space hell.

You can all sit there and laugh about how "we don't understand the cap raise". And it's very clear that whomever is saying that is ridiculously naive. This NBA is headed towards another Lock out, it's only a matter of time. I'm not singling you out; more so the Miami fan who "loled" at people making a big deal out of the money being handed out. Probably from the basement of his moms house

zn23
07-02-2015, 06:09 AM
2 years ago I bought into Ujiri. Now I think he's out of ideas and just making desperate moves.

pebloemer
07-02-2015, 06:22 AM
Oh please. Whatever you need to do go ahead and do it (ignore me, whatever). None of you are bringing anything of substance to the table. "just stop" lol. Ok buddy. Do you care to actually challenge my opinion with something worth reading? How is it such a difficult concept to understand? You can plan for rookies all you want, but the Raptors will be teetering between the 4-6th seed for a long time most likely. If the cap raises to 109, 15 Mil is 14% of the cap rounded up. So 70% of your cap is going to be dedicated to players who will most likely be of Caroll's skill-level if the trend continues. Do you understand?

Singler signing for 25/5 does not help any of your arguments. A 10 million dollar difference?


He's not the 3rd best player on a contending team. He was the 4th option (barely passing a more efficient Korver) on a team that got absolutely smoked in the playoffs.

A couple things:

a) 14% if the cap does NOT equal 14% of a teams payroll. Most teams operate above the cap. For a big budget team, Carroll is likely to represent closer to 10% of the teams payroll.

b) Acquiring players as UFA almost always results in "overpayments." It is why it is always more productive to draft, develop and lock up yours own players. The money is a lot, but if other teams are willing to pay it, then that is the value of the player.

MonroeFAN
07-02-2015, 06:45 AM
When's the last time Toronto operated over the cap? They're not a big budget team. But it's hard to disagree with your points.

I can appreciate that post.

pebloemer
07-02-2015, 08:15 AM
When's the last time Toronto operated over the cap? They're not a big budget team. But it's hard to disagree with your points.

I can appreciate that post.

Last year we were well over the cap. For the past couple years we've been just below the luxury tax line.

For your reference, the combination of Amir Johnson, Landry Fields, Lou Williams, Chuck Hayes, Tyler Hansbrough, Greivis Vasquez and Marcus Camby made approximately 35 million last year.

omdigga
07-02-2015, 09:14 AM
great pickup.. love this guys game.. upgrade offensively over Amir Johnson and you keep the toughness and D..

Necrosis
07-02-2015, 09:21 AM
Ur talking nonsense. How many euros are on the raptors? In the present GMs history how many euros has he had playing for the team? It would only take 10 minutes out of your day to become educated on a topic in which you speak.


Exactly,Toronto does not have very many european players, nor has Masai drafted one. He drafted caboclo, powell, wright and daniels, not sure if xavier thames is still ours.

His signings and trades have been for non-euro's, vasquez, salmons, willliams, patterson, hayes, carroll now... dude's talking out his ***, makes sense since he didn't know the name of the GM .

mjt20mik
07-02-2015, 09:50 AM
Saying he sucks isn't fair, but he's a mid level player, slightly higher. That should be 9-11 mill per season.

I don't see how your team is going to compete in the future if he is one of your highest paid starters. If you continue on this trend he will be. And if not, you guys are in for cap space hell.

You can all sit there and laugh about how "we don't understand the cap raise". And it's very clear that whomever is saying that is ridiculously naive. This NBA is headed towards another Lock out, it's only a matter of time. I'm not singling you out; more so the Miami fan who "loled" at people making a big deal out of the money being handed out. Probably from the basement of his moms house

What defines a mid-level player in your eyes? To me you cannot put a straight figure to it but rather a percentage of the cap. If you look at your star player making around 25-30% of the cap, a mid-level starter making around 15% isn't absurd. Again, I'm not a fan of the deal, I would have rather shelved a couple more bucks and got Tobias Harris, but I don't think its the worst signing.

mjt20mik
07-02-2015, 09:54 AM
When's the last time Toronto operated over the cap? They're not a big budget team. But it's hard to disagree with your points.

I can appreciate that post.

They actually are owned by two of the largest Telecommunication companies in Canada. They have put a lot of money into the Raptors in terms of development and facilities.

That being said, they are not stupid and won't go over the cap if the team is average.

North Yorker
07-02-2015, 10:04 AM
They actually are owned by two of the largest Telecommunication companies in Canada. They have put a lot of money into the Raptors in terms of development and facilities.

That being said, they are not stupid and won't go over the luxury tax if the team is average.

Fixed

mrblisterdundee
07-02-2015, 10:15 AM
That is big money but I like Carroll a lot. Nice singing by the Raps. One big man away from a threat in the East.

LaMarcus Aldridge would fit well there, although I hope Portland retains him.

Scoots
07-02-2015, 11:26 AM
What defines a mid-level player in your eyes? To me you cannot put a straight figure to it but rather a percentage of the cap. If you look at your star player making around 25-30% of the cap, a mid-level starter making around 15% isn't absurd. Again, I'm not a fan of the deal, I would have rather shelved a couple more bucks and got Tobias Harris, but I don't think its the worst signing.

Tobias Harris is wildly under-rated.

You could define a mid-level player as a player who makes around the MLE :)

thomass
07-02-2015, 12:29 PM
The thing is.... Carroll is not a shot creator. Over 80% of his points came off assists. Toronto is one of the worst assist teams in the nba. Carroll was turned into a good player because of the system. It's like with those backup qb's with the patriots that go on to suck on other teams.

Carroll is a great defender. I just don't see his offensive production getting any better. Could be wrong tho.

pebloemer
07-02-2015, 12:38 PM
The thing is.... Carroll is not a shot creator. Over 80% of his points came off assists. Toronto is one of the worst assist teams in the nba. Carroll was turned into a good player because of the system. It's like with those backup qb's with the patriots that go on to suck on other teams.

Carroll is a great defender. I just don't see his offensive production getting any better. Could be wrong tho.

It is a fair concern. The Raptors really got away from the ball movement that made them successful post-Rudy Gay. But if that doesn't change, we won't be any good regardless.

There is definitely always some risk that the new system won't be as accommodating for him as it was in Atlanta.

thomass
07-02-2015, 12:41 PM
The thing is.... Carroll is not a shot creator. Over 80% of his points came off assists. Toronto is one of the worst assist teams in the nba. Carroll was turned into a good player because of the system. It's like with those backup qb's with the patriots that go on to suck on other teams.

Carroll is a great defender. I just don't see his offensive production getting any better. Could be wrong tho.

It is a fair concern. The Raptors really got away from the ball movement that made them successful post-Rudy Gay. But if that doesn't change, we won't be any good regardless.

There is definitely always some risk that the new system won't be as accommodating for him as it was in Atlanta.

Yea and I love demarre. But I think the Hawks are confident they can find the next demarre. I wish him luck.