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View Full Version : Celtics offered 6 picks for Hornets #9 last night, were denied



spreadeagle
06-26-2015, 03:07 PM
The Hornets liked Frank Kaminsky.

We know that because they drafted Kaminsky No. 9 over Justise Winslow, who slipped the Heat at No. 10.

But just how much did Charlotte like Kaminsky?

Chris Forsberg of ESPN:

The Celtics made a strong final push to multiple teams in spots 4-9 on draft day. It culminated with an all-in effort in attempt to get Charlotte to deliver the No. 9 pick with Boston lusting for Duke forward Justise Winslow (the same player it coveted while trying to shuffle higher).

According to sources, the Celtics’ final offer to the Hornets was a package that could have featured as many as six draft picks, including four potential first-round selections (a combination of picks from this draft and in the future). But the Hornets could not be swayed and turned down multiple offers to select Wisconsin center Frank Kaminsky.

Meeting with reporters in the aftermath of the draft, Ainge hinted at his team’s dogged pursuit. “Maybe we were going too hard at it,” he said. “There was a time when I thought, ‘Woah, this is getting a little out of control.’ We’re putting a lot of eggs in one young player’s basket. So I’m not frustrated. In the long run, maybe it’ll be the best.” http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/06/26/report-celtics-offered-six-draft-picks-including-four-potential-first-rounders-to-hornets-for-no-9-pick-to-draft-justise-winslow/

Corey
06-26-2015, 03:09 PM
And people are calling for Ainge's head because he stayed in his draft positions.

I'm a C's fan, but some of our fan base just doesnt get it.

Hawkeye15
06-26-2015, 03:13 PM
Jordan is the ultimate example of why I laugh my *** off when posters here try to pass of a players opinion as fact.

Tony_Starks
06-26-2015, 03:19 PM
That future draft pick stuff is not wowing anybody these days. People want actual players, stacking picks in 2019 sounds great in theory but really isn't that impressive today.

JAZZNC
06-26-2015, 03:26 PM
Charlotte did what Charlotte does. Take some guy who was a big name college player that really doesn't project to be any good in the NBA. I just dont know what they are doing.....and obviously Jordan doesn't either.

Yes NC is a college basketball state, but they don't seem to get the fact that names don't bring in fans....winning does.

YAALREADYKNO
06-26-2015, 03:28 PM
6 picks for #9 and the hornets still didn't do it? Smh

valade16
06-26-2015, 03:32 PM
I'd be interested to know if Cho turned it down. He seemed like a competent GM in Portland.

Also, saying 6 picks sounds impressive, but we don't know which ones or where they were likely to be. Would you trade the 9th pick for 6 picks over the next 4 years that would all be no higher than 25th?

MILLERHIGHLIFE
06-26-2015, 03:33 PM
That future draft pick stuff is not wowing anybody these days. People want actual players, stacking picks in 2019 sounds great in theory but really isn't that impressive today.

Not only that but them picks are playoff teams most likely picks. So late twenties. Not to appealing. Smart isn't to exciting either for the so called sweetener.


•2016 — Owed first-rounder (top-12 protected else converts to 2016 and 2017 second-rounders) from Minnesota Timberwolves (Robin Lopez, Wesley Johnson, Brandan Wright).
•2016 — Owed first-rounder from Brooklyn Nets (Kevin Garnett).
•2016 — Owed first-rounder (top-seven protected through 2020, unprotected in 2021) from Dallas Mavericks (Rajon Rondo).
•2016 — Owed second-rounder from Philadelphia 76ers (Arnett Moultrie, Joel Anthony).
•2016 — Owed second-rounder from Miami HEAT (Joel Anthony).
•2016 — Owed second-rounder from Cleveland Cavaliers (Keith Bogans).
•2016 — Owed second-rounder from Dallas Mavericks (Rajon Rondo). Pick could be from Memphis Grizzlies, better pick between Dallas and Memphis goes to Boston.
•2016 — Owe second-rounder to Memphis Grizzlies (Jerryd Bayless). Pick could go to Utah Jazz (Jarnell Stokes).
•2017 — Owed first-rounder (top-10 protected, top-12 in 2018, top-eight in 2019, top-six in 2010 and unprotected in 2021) from Memphis Grizzlies (Jeff Green).
•2017 — Right to swap first-rounders with the Brooklyn Nets (Kevin Garnett)
•2017 — Owed second-rounder from Los Angeles Clippers (Austin Rivers).
•2017 — Owed second-rounder from Cleveland Cavaliers (Keith Bogans).
•2017 — Owe second-rounder to Brooklyn Nets (Kevin Garnett), if in 46-60 range and Boston swaps its first-rounder swapped with Brooklyn.
•2018 — Owed first-rounder from Brooklyn Nets (Kevin Garnett).


Only hope is them Nets first rounder's swap of them being high lottery. But doubt they let that happen. They rather be luxury tax offenders then give away picks. Also weak east Nets will be near playoffs every season. They probably over pay to keep Lopez as well to make sure near playoffs next 5 years. Also traded picks with a pick swap don't matter if Hornets are worse then Nets. So it's null.

More-Than-Most
06-26-2015, 03:47 PM
6 picks for #9 and the hornets still didn't do it? Smh

yes because I assume they were giving up their 16th as well... so 16th plus 3 future first rounders... Yes

HuRRiCaNeS324
06-26-2015, 03:51 PM
Kaminsky is not worth 6 players. Regardless wether it's a lottery pick or not.

KnicksorBust
06-26-2015, 03:51 PM
Celtics are in such a **** position. Damn. Yes I realize the team I root for lol but they don't have a star or top pick to get hyped about. I would say they are the farthest NBA team from a title but I love Brad Stevens. Oh and don't give me that they made the playoffs either. They got steam rolled and aren't any better this season.

5ass
06-26-2015, 04:05 PM
Celtics are in such a **** position. Damn. Yes I realize the team I root for lol but they don't have a star or top pick to get hyped about. I would say they are the farthest NBA team from a title but I love Brad Stevens. Oh and don't give me that they made the playoffs either. They got steam rolled and aren't any better this season.

I'd say the nets are farthest away from a title, but I agree with what you're saying.

2-ONE-5
06-26-2015, 04:08 PM
Charlotte did what Charlotte does. Take some guy who was a big name college player that really doesn't project to be any good in the NBA. I just dont know what they are doing.....and obviously Jordan doesn't either.

Yes NC is a college basketball state, but they don't seem to get the fact that names don't bring in fans....winning does.

Kaminski is going to be a fine player

lakerboy
06-26-2015, 04:08 PM
Late picks are close to meaningless, anybody who wants to reach a player in the late 20's can just buy a pick for a few million.

It'll be hard for C's fan to accept this, but all those late picks Ainge is collecting are close to useless. Nobody would trade even an 8-10 pick for those. They're trash.

ManRam
06-26-2015, 04:09 PM
And people are calling for Ainge's head because he stayed in his draft positions.

I'm a C's fan, but some of our fan base just doesnt get it.

You can't force other GMs to do trades you want. Everyone always assumes a lack of activity is due to a lack of effort....but nah.

lakerboy
06-26-2015, 04:11 PM
and LOL at those rumors he was going to get Okafor at 3 with Philly. HAHA that was funny. It's like those Lakers fans in the forum saying we'd trade Sacre and Jordan Clarkson for Anthony Davis.

Aust
06-26-2015, 04:12 PM
Will be interesting to look back a few years from now and see if Kaminsky was worth it.

Green_Monster
06-26-2015, 04:16 PM
Late picks are close to meaningless, anybody who wants to reach a player in the late 20's can just buy a pick for a few million.

It'll be hard for C's fan to accept this, but all those late picks Ainge is collecting are close to useless. Nobody would trade even an 8-10 pick for those. They're trash.

Those picks are far from useless. The Nets picks could also turn out to be pretty good.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
06-26-2015, 04:16 PM
Late picks are close to meaningless, anybody who wants to reach a player in the late 20's can just buy a pick for a few million.

It'll be hard for C's fan to accept this, but all those late picks Ainge is collecting are close to useless. Nobody would trade even an 8-10 pick for those. They're trash.


Also max roster in NBA is 15 players. So you need quality over quantity. Even having two firsts every season for a couple seasons. Eventually you wont be able to keep everyone and have to trade them picks or players for future picks cause run out of room as well on the roster. Or do 2 for 1 deals or whatever. Assets are nice when you find a team in luxury tax on a RFA and that player doesn't wanna play there any more like example Harden. But that was like once in a blue moon kinda deal.

Wont happen often. Also like you said later first can almost be had for free by eating a bad contract. Heck Bucks got a 2017 protected first from Clippers. Which we re-flipped to Raptors. That pick was little value unless Clippers fell to #15 which I doubt they would. So that pick turns into like two late second rounder's. Late second rounds don't have much value. Pretty much near undrafted players or street free agents for summer league.

JAZZNC
06-26-2015, 04:25 PM
Kaminski is going to be a fine player
No he isn't. who is he going to guard in the NBA? He also physically can't go left. You think NBA defenses won't make him go left? He won't be playing against undisciplined college freshmen anymore. Frank the Tank will be a bust. Complete waste of a pick with Winslow there. Much higher upside....much higher.

Raps18-19 Champ
06-26-2015, 04:27 PM
Jordan being Jordan.

nycericanguy
06-26-2015, 04:30 PM
Also max roster in NBA is 15 players. So you need quality over quantity. Even having two firsts every season for a couple seasons. Eventually you wont be able to keep everyone and have to trade them picks or players for future picks cause run out of room as well on the roster. Or do 2 for 1 deals or whatever. Assets are nice when you find a team in luxury tax on a RFA and that player doesn't wanna play there any more like example Harden. But that was like once in a blue moon kinda deal.

Wont happen often. Also like you said later first can almost be had for free by eating a bad contract. Heck Bucks got a 2017 protected first from Clippers. Which we re-flipped to Raptors. That pick was little value unless Clippers fell to #15 which I doubt they would. So that pick turns into like two late second rounder's. Late second rounds don't have much value. Pretty much near undrafted players or street free agents for summer league.

and with the cap going up so high few teams will be in the tax for the next 2-3 years.

PHI & BOS have amassed so many picks but will they really get a chance to use them for a star?

WITZ
06-26-2015, 04:31 PM
Hornets sure do love them some tall white guys who can shoot ,but can't rebound Hawes,Zeller, & now Kaminski :laugh2:

ChI_ShIzzLe
06-26-2015, 04:33 PM
Hornets sure do love them some tall white guys who can shoot ,but can't rebound Hawes,Zeller, & now Kaminski :laugh2:

How could you post that without mentioning Adam Morrison[emoji23]

LakerShow
06-26-2015, 04:34 PM
I was lol when the hornets selected Frank. Jordan and his crew just don't get it. They will forever suck.

2-ONE-5
06-26-2015, 04:43 PM
No he isn't. who is he going to guard in the NBA? He also physically can't go left. You think NBA defenses won't make him go left? He won't be playing against undisciplined college freshmen anymore. Frank the Tank will be a bust. Complete waste of a pick with Winslow there. Much higher upside....much higher.

youll be wrong.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
06-26-2015, 04:52 PM
Hornets sure do love them some tall white guys who can shoot ,but can't rebound Hawes,Zeller, & now Kaminski :laugh2:

Zeller was on the trade block before the draft.

ROY 2 MVP Braun
06-27-2015, 01:27 PM
Kaminski is going to be a fine player
No he isn't. who is he going to guard in the NBA? He also physically can't go left. You think NBA defenses won't make him go left? He won't be playing against undisciplined college freshmen anymore. Frank the Tank will be a bust. Complete waste of a pick with Winslow there. Much higher upside....much higher.
Frank has amazing foot work in the post and because of that can go either way. Even if he couldn't go left he can't still be decent I mean Henson only goes to the left hook and he's alright. Frank also has range so that will come into play as well. If they put him at the 4 and he's taller and the same size or bigger than the guy guarding him he's going to do work in the post. You'll see! I'd be willing to bet if both players were given equal playing time that Frank would have a better season than Winslow. It's possible he has a better career as well. I like Winslow but there's a reason he fell to 10. I think he's going to be a player that was great in college but never amounts to much in the pros.

Vinylman
06-27-2015, 01:39 PM
Frank the Tank was EASILY taken 6 picks early... he won't even be as good of a pro as his teammate Dekker

PAOboston
06-27-2015, 02:05 PM
null
Brooklyn had a worse record than the C's this year and barely made the playoffs. I don't expect them to get any better. Plus they might also lose B Lopez. Indiana will also have George back this year and Miami will get Bosh back as well boosting both of those teams. I think Brooklyn will be in the lottery. Whether it is high lottery or low, it remains to be seen. Also, I'm intrigued to see how the situation in Dallas pans out. They might lose Rondo, Eliis, and Chandler this offseason.

ROY 2 MVP Braun
06-27-2015, 03:05 PM
Frank the Tank was EASILY taken 6 picks early... he won't even be as good of a pro as his teammate Dekker
The day of the draft there were analyst on TV saying that Frank had a chance to go as high as 4 because PJ loved him and if he could have moved back to 7/8 he would have but was worried that he'd miss out on Frank and the kid they drafted. At worst he'll have a nice 10 year career if not for injuries. He's not going to be a great player but he's solid to very good at so many things.

ROY 2 MVP Braun
06-27-2015, 03:06 PM
Frank the Tank was EASILY taken 6 picks early... he won't even be as good of a pro as his teammate Dekker

He should easily have a better career than Dek as well!

2-ONE-5
06-27-2015, 03:09 PM
is there really much of a difference between picks 9-15 anyway? i dont think so

Vinylman
06-27-2015, 03:10 PM
The day of the draft there were analyst on TV saying that Frank had a chance to go as high as 4 because PJ loved him and if he could have moved back to 7/8 he would have but was worried that he'd miss out on Frank and the kid they drafted. At worst he'll have a nice 10 year career if not for injuries. He's not going to be a great player but he's solid to very good at so many things.

I respect your opinion 90% of the time but i gotta disagree on this one... he just isn't made for the NBA...

and using PJ as a barometer on talent assessment is scary... this is the same guy that went ballistic when the Lakers didn't take Sean May over Bynum

Vinylman
06-27-2015, 03:11 PM
is there really much of a difference between picks 9-15 anyway? i dont think so

there is if you get another pick or player

BKLYNpigeon
06-27-2015, 03:22 PM
They were probably all late round draft picks. Depending on the year, it could be a really weak draft class.

The Lakers did give up Two 1st and 2nd round picks for Nash.

TylerSL
06-27-2015, 04:54 PM
This was why I had Charlotte as losers of the draft. Kaminsky is a good player and would normally be worthy of a selection at around #9, but Justise Winslow was on the board. Winslow was projected to be a top 5 pick in this extremely deep draft and he was in their laps at #9. They could have either taken him, or they could have cash in on the fact that he fell and acquired six draft picks, including four first rounders, so someone else can move up and take him. Yet they didn't do either of those things and just took Kaminsky at #9, allowing Miami to scoop up Winslow.

As a fan of the Miami Heat I cannot be any happier about Charlotte making that decision, but as a basketball fan I understand how questionable of a decision that was. Charlotte took "their guy" over making the best basketball decision on the spot. Even though giving up 6 picks would be kings randsom, the Celtics have so many assets they could give up those 6 picks and not even think twice about it if it gave them Winslow. That would have been a good move by Boston, and Charlotte single-handedly ruined the Celtics draft by being stubborn. Just a huge missed opportunity on their part and it will probably go back and haunt them.

flea
06-27-2015, 05:12 PM
I don't blame Charlotte for not taking that offer. Were any of those picks they were offered even projected as lottery picks? They don't need a bunch of 16-25 1st rounders, they need 2-way players and you generally don't get those outside of the lottery. Charlotte thinks Kaminsky is that 2-way player for them and I can't blame them. He has a very tantalizing skillset. Solid defensively, can shoot enough to play the 4 or 5, advanced post game that would get more shine if Okafor wasn't in this draft, and a tough and smart player who deservedly won the award as the best player in college last year.

As for Winslow, I don't care who projected him where, he is about equal in my mind to the other 2 top wings (Stanley Johnson and Sam Dekker). I saw all 3 as similar players - athletic defenders with varying strengths offensively but none of them natural shooters. It seems like most front offices agreed with me as they got taken according to need rather than BPA. Honestly I had Johnson as the best, then Dekker, and then Winslow. And I'm a Duke fan and thus saw Winslow the most (possibly why I could focus on his fauls). Player development is going to matter for all 3 as to whether they're role players or something more, but his offensive skillset as my least favorite.

Wade n Fade
06-27-2015, 08:12 PM
If Jordan wasn't an idiot talent evaluator, I would've said that if you feel you have your superstar, take him. Keep in mind, he's the same guy that took Biymobo, Kwame, MKG, and Cody Zeller over other better picks. Beal is so much better than MKG right off the bat.

I don't like Kaminsky as an NBA prospect. We really lucked out with Winslow. I think he has superstar talent. Ainge probably thought so too?

C-ross12
06-27-2015, 09:27 PM
If Jordan wasn't an idiot talent evaluator, I would've said that if you feel you have your superstar, take him. Keep in mind, he's the same guy that took Biymobo, Kwame, MKG, and Cody Zeller over other better picks. Beal is so much better than MKG right off the bat.

I don't like Kaminsky as an NBA prospect. We really lucked out with Winslow. I think he has superstar talent. Ainge probably thought so too?

I'd assume. He probably saw Winslow slip to 9 and drooled. Charlotte will continue to be unsuccessful until they recognize the need to take a player like Winslow over a player like Kaminsky. Winslow probably should have gone either 3 or 4.

Wade n Fade
06-28-2015, 11:31 AM
I'd assume. He probably saw Winslow slip to 9 and drooled. Charlotte will continue to be unsuccessful until they recognize the need to take a player like Winslow over a player like Kaminsky. Winslow probably should have gone either 3 or 4.

Charlotte needs a new owner. Jordan went from the GOAT player to the WOAT talent evaluator. Weird how he hasn't learned from mistakes. When I think of Kaminsky, I think that he's going to be a bust like Biyombo and Zeller.

xnj
06-28-2015, 11:41 AM
That future draft pick stuff is not wowing anybody these days. People want actual players, stacking picks in 2019 sounds great in theory but really isn't that impressive today. http://insuranceautocars.com/insurance/images/42.gifhttp://insuranceautocars.com/insurance/images/37.gif

Wade n Fade
06-28-2015, 12:01 PM
That future draft pick stuff is not wowing anybody these days. People want actual players, stacking picks in 2019 sounds great in theory but really isn't that impressive today. http://insuranceautocars.com/insurance/images/42.gifhttp://insuranceautocars.com/insurance/images/37.gif

Depends. I think if you were to equate 6 picks vs Kaminsky in terms of some quantifiable metrics, it would be in favor of stacking vs Kaminsky. If it's Okafor, then you have a hard time arguing. I believe this as my methodology to drafting (in general), if you think the person is a superstar, don't trade the guy away. RGIII had some risk to him, so St. Louis decided he wasn't worth the gamble and they were right. Did they capitalize on the picks? Not to the fullest extent possible, but Greg Robinson > RGIII to say the least. I said I would've defended Jordan if he wasn't a bad talent evaluator, but he is a horrific talent evaluator, so I cannot defend taking Kaminsky. I was like "holy s**t" when I read Charlotte may trade #9.

C-ross12
06-28-2015, 01:27 PM
Charlotte needs a new owner. Jordan went from the GOAT player to the WOAT talent evaluator. Weird how he hasn't learned from mistakes. When I think of Kaminsky, I think that he's going to be a bust like Biyombo and Zeller.

For me personally I don't hate Kaminsky. I think he would have been a good 15 - 20 pick. It's just baffling when you have Winslow available, and say "Yeah, still want Kaminsky." It makes me wonder who else the front office would have passed over to take Kaminsky.

hugepatsfan
06-28-2015, 03:42 PM
Late picks are close to meaningless, anybody who wants to reach a player in the late 20's can just buy a pick for a few million.

It'll be hard for C's fan to accept this, but all those late picks Ainge is collecting are close to useless. Nobody would trade even an 8-10 pick for those. They're trash.

The picks aren't all premium assets but the alternative was to just let Pierce/KG/Jason Terry/Courtney Lee/Jordan Crawford/Rajon Rondo/Jeff Green expire and then start the rebuild now. Instead they traded them and got what they could. It's not like those were premium pieces they were dealing off. I think he's done really the most you could in this position. I'd rather be rebuilding with those picks than without them, even if they aren't franchise changers.