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View Full Version : Do you think Tristan Thompson will get the max??



phantasyyy
06-19-2015, 01:57 PM
http://prosportsdaily.com/Headlines/ExternalArticle?articleId=360989

Given his playoff performance, which teams do you think offer him that contract?

Currently a RFA, does Cleveland match a max offer if presented?

Quick Stats:
8.5pt/8reb/.7blk/.4stl on 55% fg in 27m - Regular Season
11.4pt/10.8/1blk/.7stl per 36 numbers Regular season

9.6pt/10.8reb/1.2bl/.3stl on 56% fg in 36m Playoffs

Obviously a tenacious rebounder, and decent defender, not quite the intimidating shotblocker but he does he job on that end as well. But, a super role player at best being paid the maximum?

nycericanguy
06-19-2015, 02:01 PM
yes, or VERY close to it.

CAVS already offered $13m per and his value has gone up since. His max is about 15.7m starting.

KG2TB
06-19-2015, 02:10 PM
With the rise in cap, yes.

GiantsSwaGG
06-19-2015, 02:11 PM
He will be SEVERELY overpaid

Rivera
06-19-2015, 02:16 PM
Just max everyone holy crap. He is by no where near a max player but screw it I guess. I know what he rejected which was above his value IMO. But he's worth whatever nba teams want to play him

Blink
06-19-2015, 02:20 PM
If he gets max dollars then helllloooooo lockout.

kingkenny01
06-19-2015, 02:24 PM
Help me out here if the cap rises doesn't the max rise or no?

MILLERHIGHLIFE
06-19-2015, 02:28 PM
Help me out here if the cap rises doesn't the max rise or no?

Yeah baby max of 0-6 years veterans get 25% of the salary cap. 10+ year vets get like 35%.

superwill
06-19-2015, 02:35 PM
He is not worth the max at all the lockout is on the way

superwill
06-19-2015, 02:39 PM
in todays game Otis Thorpe would be a max player

Jamiecballer
06-19-2015, 02:47 PM
i don't know if he will or not. but can we talk about just how ****ing nuts that would be? i'd pay this kid half that max and still be gritting my teeth as i did it.

R. Johnson#3
06-19-2015, 03:12 PM
If he gets a max deal it will be a defining moment in NBA history. He will be the most undeserving recipient of a max contract in NBA history and it probably will stay that way for a long time.

superwill
06-19-2015, 03:21 PM
If he gets a max deal it will be a defining moment in NBA history. He will be the most undeserving recipient of a max contract in NBA history and it probably will stay that way for a long time.

it could cost Cleveland LBJ so to them it might be worth it

phantasyyy
06-19-2015, 03:24 PM
Yeah I also feel he is undeserving of a max contract - glorified garbage man to me..

But his worth and a team being desperate enough to offer it are two different things.

Even his previous offer of the 52/4years @ 13m seems like over pay to me.

Which brings you to the Cavaliers perspective, you can't max him and love at the same time with one coming off the bench can you? That's two max contracts for your PF's not including Lebrons and Kyrie's max.. That Wiggins trade is looking more terrible as time goes by.

That said if the Cavs do let Love walk in favor of Tristan what will the backlash be if any? They essentially got rid of two #1 overall picks for a regular season rental of Love.

MonroeFAN
06-19-2015, 03:27 PM
No big guy from either team in that series deserves a max contract.

Scoots
06-19-2015, 03:29 PM
He'll get close to a max deal. GM LBJ said so.

SportsFanatic10
06-19-2015, 03:36 PM
He shares an agent with Lebron James and James has said he should get paid in Cleveland. It's going to happen almost for sure imo, that the Cavs give the max to him.

KG2TB
06-19-2015, 03:38 PM
Yeah I also feel he is undeserving of a max contract - glorified garbage man to me..

But his worth and a team being desperate enough to offer it are two different things.

Even his previous offer of the 52/4years @ 13m seems like over pay to me.

Which brings you to the Cavaliers perspective, you can't max him and love at the same time with one coming off the bench can you? That's two max contracts for your PF's not including Lebrons and Kyrie's max.. That Wiggins trade is looking more terrible as time goes by.

That said if the Cavs do let Love walk in favor of Tristan what will the backlash be if any? They essentially got rid of two #1 overall picks for a regular season rental of Love.

That wiggins trade will haunt them for a long time.

chi-townlove1
06-19-2015, 03:52 PM
The NBA is a joke. An absolute joke. Who gives a **** anymore honestly. He's going to be overpaid. Accept it. They all are

superwill
06-19-2015, 03:54 PM
if your tall and can jump your paid damn if I been a foot taller

FYL_McVeezy
06-19-2015, 03:56 PM
Imagine if he gets maxed out and Deandre Jordan gets 100 mil?.....

Lockout time for sure....

FYL_McVeezy
06-19-2015, 04:00 PM
That wiggins trade will haunt them for a long time.

Exactly why they should have just kept Wiggins at the end of the day....talented player on a rookie contract

Ryan328
06-19-2015, 04:10 PM
I sure wouldn't max him

Scoots
06-19-2015, 04:13 PM
Not all of them are overpaid. James is underpaid. Curry is underpaid. All of the superstars are underpaid. BECAUSE they are underpaid the pretty good players are getting overpaid. It's the way the system works.

Jamiecballer
06-19-2015, 04:22 PM
He shares an agent with Lebron James and James has said he should get paid in Cleveland. It's going to happen almost for sure imo, that the Cavs give the max to him.

and as usual, what Lebron wants is probably the worst thing for him. that deal will severely hamper his ability to win at some point.

flea
06-19-2015, 04:28 PM
It's not absurd - I think the Cavs need to pay him whatever it takes to keep him. People with an agenda want to paint him as "total crap" but he is turning into a really good 2-way big man. He's a very high draft pick but I thought he would bust due to offensive liabilities. Instead, he's become one of the best offensive rebounders in the game, a very promising p&r defender, and a pretty decent finishing big man with a small variety of offensive moves.

I think if he works on his roll game and defensive IQ he could become a very good player. Can't shoot but when you can board like he can you don't want him more than 8-10 feet from the hoop anyway. Still very young (younger than Rodman was when he entered the league) and the sort of player Lebron's team can't afford to give up as he moves further into his decline years - unless of course he changes teams.

LeonFSU
06-19-2015, 04:38 PM
It's not absurd - I think the Cavs need to pay him whatever it takes to keep him. People with an agenda want to paint him as "total crap" but he is turning into a really good 2-way big man. He's a very high draft pick but I thought he would bust due to offensive liabilities. Instead, he's become one of the best offensive rebounders in the game, a very promising p&r defender, and a pretty decent finishing big man with a small variety of offensive moves.

I think if he works on his roll game and defensive IQ he could become a very good player. Can't shoot but when you can board like he can you don't want him more than 8-10 feet from the hoop anyway. Still very young (younger than Rodman was when he entered the league) and the sort of player Lebron's team can't afford to give up as he moves further into his decline years - unless of course he changes teams.

Really enjoyed watching Thompson in the playoffs and I'm not directly responding to the question, but its a stretch to call him a 2-way big man. He's pretty limited offensively, but he has improved and I expect that he will continue to.

phantasyyy
06-19-2015, 04:43 PM
It's not absurd - I think the Cavs need to pay him whatever it takes to keep him. People with an agenda want to paint him as "total crap" but he is turning into a really good 2-way big man. He's a very high draft pick but I thought he would bust due to offensive liabilities. Instead, he's become one of the best offensive rebounders in the game, a very promising p&r defender, and a pretty decent finishing big man with a small variety of offensive moves.

I think if he works on his roll game and defensive IQ he could become a very good player. Can't shoot but when you can board like he can you don't want him more than 8-10 feet from the hoop anyway. Still very young (younger than Rodman was when he entered the league) and the sort of player Lebron's team can't afford to give up as he moves further into his decline years - unless of course he changes teams.

I agree with everything you said, but under the salary cap system, by maxing him out, then wouldn't that be considered a foregone conclusion that Love is the odd man out? I mean you can't necessarily max him and love when the both play the same position? Unless you start him at the 5, but then I think by doing so it would negate his ability to outwork fellow PF's, but with the league going small maybe that's something they are considering?

beasted86
06-19-2015, 04:51 PM
Yes, he's worth the max in today's league given the cap increases and based on other idiot GMs overpaying weaker (Ex: Rubio).

In 2017 when the cap goes up to $107M, the max for a player coming off his rookie contract will be $26.75M. And don't believe for a second nobody is going to get it. Steph Curry may end up getting $32M that same summer.

Tristan Thompson will be worth his $15 when compared with that contract environment right around the corner.

Jazzgear
06-19-2015, 04:51 PM
He shares an agent with Lebron James and James has said he should get paid in Cleveland. It's going to happen almost for sure imo, that the Cavs give the max to him.


Actually there's a larger conflict of interest here in that Lebron either owns or is a big Stakeholder of the company the agent works for. So he's in essence double dipping

Pierzynski4Prez
06-19-2015, 04:55 PM
Just because he denied 13 annually already doesn't automatically mean he's going to get more. A smart GM wouldn't give him over 10.

I hope LeBron pushes for it though, so in 2 years even with the cap increase the cavs will be capped out with Lebrons new max, Tristan and his 16 annually, and then maxed out injury prone Love and Kyrie.

Jamiecballer
06-19-2015, 05:34 PM
Really enjoyed watching Thompson in the playoffs and I'm not directly responding to the question, but its a stretch to call him a 2-way big man. He's pretty limited offensively, but he has improved and I expect that he will continue to.
His postseason performance was mostly a product of circumstance. He has a couple skills and he was in an ideal position to use them. He may be improving but a GM would be wise to use Thompson of 12 months ago to determine how much he's worth or they will be paying through the nose.

Vee-Rex
06-19-2015, 05:36 PM
I definitely do not want him to get the max but the Cavs hands are kinda tied with him being so buddy-buddy with LBJ and sharing the same agent.

Whatever, gotta live with however it goes. Maybe it won't seem AS painful when the cap goes up in the following years.

True Sports Fan
06-19-2015, 05:42 PM
Reggie Evans wished he was 24 right now

Vinylman
06-19-2015, 05:50 PM
If Cleveland is smart they will tell him to go get a max deal and they will match it...

I can't see a single other team in the league giving him a max...

If they offer him a max it is only because of Lebron and his agent

ManRam
06-19-2015, 05:54 PM
I think he will. If for no other reason than the CBA negotiations coming up next summer. A max contract now isn't going to be as big of a deal as it would otherwise be. Salary caps will skyrocket.

He's still too raw to justify it really, but he's young and I do think someone will jump and offer it.

bucketss
06-19-2015, 05:54 PM
i guess every decent player will get a max nowadays.

GiantsSwaGG
06-19-2015, 06:02 PM
Reggie Evans wished he was 24 right now

He can still get the max the way the teams
paying these players

Vinylman
06-19-2015, 06:16 PM
I think he will. If for no other reason than the CBA negotiations coming up next summer. A max contract now isn't going to be as big of a deal as it would otherwise be. Salary caps will skyrocket.

He's still too raw to justify it really, but he's young and I do think someone will jump and offer it.

give me one team ... just one... i literally can't think of one...

SportsFanatic10
06-19-2015, 06:24 PM
and as usual, what Lebron wants is probably the worst thing for him. that deal will severely hamper his ability to win at some point.

I agree, Lebron wouldn't be a good GM lol. But as a player at least he's got his teammates backs I guess...

Jarvo
06-19-2015, 07:12 PM
No
Hell no
Nope
Nah
**** no

beasted86
06-19-2015, 07:54 PM
give me one team ... just one... i literally can't think of one...
1)Orlando Magic
Have plenty of cap space even after the draft, so long as they don't overpay Tobias.
- Payton/Oladipo/Harris/Thompson/Vucevic

2)Hawks
Rebounding deficient team may say "no thanks" to Millsap and his max contract demands of $18M+ when they could sign Thompson for less.
- Teague/Korver/Carroll/Thompson/Horford

3) Spurs
If Duncan decided to retire, the sexy name to drop here is LMA. But once they realize they can't afford him and still sign a starting and backup SG, they may opt for a more realistic target who might be willing to play in SA.

I don't know that any of these teams would realistically consider him, but here are three teams with $15M cap space that have a need at starting PF

xnick5757
06-19-2015, 08:11 PM
I think he will. If for no other reason than the CBA negotiations coming up next summer. A max contract now isn't going to be as big of a deal as it would otherwise be. Salary caps will skyrocket.

He's still too raw to justify it really, but he's young and I do think someone will jump and offer it.

X2

The cap is massively increasing to 90 mil (i think) over the next two years, which is insane.

A max deal for TT will be a steal.


Also remember that there are many different types of max deals; the money TT will get is not the money Lebron gets


He's a young player with potential that already gives you basically a double double every night

Raps08-09 Champ
06-19-2015, 08:15 PM
He'll get just under it but he won't deserve it.

sammyvine
06-19-2015, 08:27 PM
He will get it but its a joke.

There were even doubts that Kawhi was worth the max and he is much much better than TT. TT is a decent player but he is a role player. He will never be an all star or top 5 in his position. Good for him to get that money but it really shows the state of the NBA when TT is a max player. Note even close to being al all star.

Jamiecballer
06-19-2015, 08:34 PM
X2

The cap is massively increasing to 90 mil (i think) over the next two years, which is insane.

A max deal for TT will be a steal.


Also remember that there are many different types of max deals; the money TT will get is not the money Lebron gets


He's a young player with potential that already gives you basically a double double every night
What would you have paid Thompson at this time last year?

xnick5757
06-19-2015, 08:37 PM
What would you have paid Thompson at this time last year?

It doesn't matter, the cap increases are changing everything:

2015: 67/82
2016: 89/108
2017: 108/127


That's a massive increase which completely changes what a "max deal" is

Jamiecballer
06-19-2015, 09:25 PM
It doesn't matter, the cap increases are changing everything:

2015: 67/82
2016: 89/108
2017: 108/127


That's a massive increase which completely changes what a "max deal" is
It absolutely matters because it tells me whether you are just a big fan of his game or caught up in the moment. You could have plugged in any number of bigs at that same age and got similar production. Hell Amir Johnson at that same age could have provided a similar impact. Would you pay him a max?

I'm as big an Amir Johnson fan as there is and I know that would be crazy.

Corey
06-19-2015, 09:30 PM
The landscape of NBA contracts is changing by the year.

I dont think he's worth more than 10 per year, I thought it was absurd that he thought he was worth more than 13, but now he's likely to get a current-day max.

Wild.

Sadds The Gr8
06-19-2015, 09:32 PM
X2

The cap is massively increasing to 90 mil (i think) over the next two years, which is insane.

A max deal for TT will be a steal.


Also remember that there are many different types of max deals; the money TT will get is not the money Lebron gets


He's a young player with potential that already gives you basically a double double every night
no it isnt.

bucketss
06-19-2015, 09:33 PM
just curious what teams would actually throw a max at him?

Chronz
06-19-2015, 09:56 PM
I don't see what makes him worth it

flea
06-19-2015, 10:02 PM
It absolutely matters because it tells me whether you are just a big fan of his game or caught up in the moment. You could have plugged in any number of bigs at that same age and got similar production. Hell Amir Johnson at that same age could have provided a similar impact. Would you pay him a max?

I'm as big an Amir Johnson fan as there is and I know that would be crazy.

All due respect to Johnson, who I've always liked, but he was never really the rebounder that TT is.


I don't see what makes him worth it

Do you think Draymond is worth it? I do and I don't think they're terribly far apart as players. Draymond is a better passer and shooter, but a far inferior rebounder and isn't really athletic enough to be a SF fulltime (not to mention a bigger offensive liability as one). TT is younger and has more upside as a defender, and is already among the best offensive rebounders in the game.

Sadds The Gr8
06-19-2015, 10:06 PM
All due respect to Johnson, who I've always liked, but he was never really the rebounder that TT is.



Do you think Draymond is worth it? I do and I don't think they're terribly far apart as players. Draymond is a better passer and shooter, but a far inferior rebounder and isn't really athletic enough to be a SF fulltime (not to mention a bigger offensive liability as one). TT is younger and has more upside as a defender, and is already among the best offensive rebounders in the game.
Draymond is better in every facet of basketball except Off rebs...

Jamiecballer
06-19-2015, 10:39 PM
All due respect to Johnson, who I've always liked, but he was never really the rebounder that TT is.

True, but he defends the basket better, is a better passer and much better finisher. The bottom line is that both of them are suited to grunt work which is why Thompson had such a nice playoffs. With everyone focused on James and every member of the Cavs throwing up bricks all he had to do was crash the glass.

He wouldn't have had a particularly big impact (if he even did) if his team isn't shooting so god awful for the series.

Vinylman
06-20-2015, 05:43 PM
It doesn't matter, the cap increases are changing everything:

2015: 67/82
2016: 89/108
2017: 108/127


That's a massive increase which completely changes what a "max deal" is

Post like this make me LMFAO...

Just wait until the new CBA comes after the next lockout... the true superstars are gonna demand more than a max of 30-33% of the cap...

Then signing all these scrubs will matter

Vinylman
06-20-2015, 05:51 PM
1)Orlando Magic
Have plenty of cap space even after the draft, so long as they don't overpay Tobias.
- Payton/Oladipo/Harris/Thompson/Vucevic

2)Hawks
Rebounding deficient team may say "no thanks" to Millsap and his max contract demands of $18M+ when they could sign Thompson for less.
- Teague/Korver/Carroll/Thompson/Horford

3) Spurs
If Duncan decided to retire, the sexy name to drop here is LMA. But once they realize they can't afford him and still sign a starting and backup SG, they may opt for a more realistic target who might be willing to play in SA.

I don't know that any of these teams would realistically consider him, but here are three teams with $15M cap space that have a need at starting PF

I might buy Orlando but not really since they have a bunch of guys coming up that are gonna require large increases and the fact that he doesn't fit their offense..

Atlanta could but that means losing both Carroll and milsap... they can only go over the cap to sign carroll for around 5.8 million and he will get much more than that and i doubt they rescind milsap

spurs ... not a chance ... he would be a horrible fit and if they are gonna go after a PF it will be aldridge


Again... none of those teams if even interested will offer a max

WITZ
06-20-2015, 05:53 PM
Someone gave Brendan Haywood a 10 Mill contract ... yea TT is going to get 15 Mil.

Vinylman
06-20-2015, 06:38 PM
Someone gave Brendan Haywood a 10 Mill contract ... yea TT is going to get 15 Mil.

Lullz

no one ever gave BH a $10 million contract that was guaranteed... the contract he is under right now was 4/$16.8 million... he has only made $6.3 million of that at this point and will be cut wherever he ends up and never see the remaining $10.5 million...

His biggest contract ever was 3/$21 million

Clippersfan86
06-20-2015, 06:50 PM
Cavs would be better off letting Thompson walk and keeping Love IMO. Sure he's a bit better on defense, but he's nowhere close to the offensive player Love is and Love is just as good on the glass. They CANNOT have Love walk and then have traded Wiggins for nothing.

Scoots
06-20-2015, 06:50 PM
Do you think Draymond is worth it? I do and I don't think they're terribly far apart as players. Draymond is a better passer and shooter, but a far inferior rebounder and isn't really athletic enough to be a SF fulltime (not to mention a bigger offensive liability as one). TT is younger and has more upside as a defender, and is already among the best offensive rebounders in the game.

So you think TT is a lock to be a future defensive player of the year? That must be what you mean since Green got more first place votes for that award this year than anyone else and you expect TT to be able to do better.

Scoots
06-20-2015, 06:58 PM
Lullz

no one ever gave BH a $10 million contract that was guaranteed... the contract he is under right now was 4/$16.8 million... he has only made $6.3 million of that at this point and will be cut wherever he ends up and never see the remaining $10.5 million...

His biggest contract ever was 3/$21 million

BH was given a $10M contract, it's a fact. Nobody said guaranteed money, just that he got that contract.

Other than cherry picking an argument that is off topic did you have anything to say about Thompson's future deal?

Scoots
06-20-2015, 07:02 PM
Cavs would be better off letting Thompson walk and keeping Love IMO. Sure he's a bit better on defense, but he's nowhere close to the offensive player Love is and Love is just as good on the glass. They CANNOT have Love walk and then have traded Wiggins for nothing.

I think they should swallow their pride and let Love walk. Love and LeBron operate in the same floor space so Love is never going to get maximized with LeBron and LeBron has already made it clear he wants TT to stick.

WITZ
06-20-2015, 07:53 PM
BH was given a $10M contract, it's a fact. Nobody said guaranteed money, just that he got that contract.

Other than cherry picking an argument that is off topic did you have anything to say about Thompson's future deal?

Thanks for saying what i was going to :clap:

Scoots
06-20-2015, 09:30 PM
Thanks for saying what i was going to :clap:

My pleasure :)

KnicksorBust
06-20-2015, 09:36 PM
This kid is so overrated bc of some nice rebounding games on the national stage. He is limitted offensively and hardly an elite rim protector. Being good at switching on pnr is not worth a max deal. They would be much better off letting him walk and putting all their energy on Kevin Love. They need him.

Jamiecballer
06-20-2015, 10:25 PM
This kid is so overrated bc of some nice rebounding games on the national stage. He is limitted offensively and hardly an elite rim protector. Being good at switching on pnr is not worth a max deal. They would be much better off letting him walk and putting all their energy on Kevin Love. They need him.
Couldn't agree more. Although I'd add that I personally would trade Irving if I was keeping Love and use your return on him to shore up a couple other positions on the floor and open up more offensive opportunities for Love. I really like LeBron running as point and I think a 2 man offensive game with him and Love would be deadly.

Munkeysuit
06-21-2015, 12:17 AM
TT deserves a max contract or at least something really close, what he brings to this Cavs team isn't something you can very easily find, not besides the fact that he actually enjoys doing what he does, he takes much pride in it.
His overall skill set can be argued and debated over wether or not it equates to whatever dollar amount he commands this off season BUT that doesn't matter right now, what matters is that you have a dude that accepts his role and has maximized the significance of that particular role without the relevant worth in dollar amount and he's still only 24.

Munkeysuit
06-21-2015, 12:21 AM
Somebody above compared TT to Draymond...wth? hahaha my goodness, I just don't know what is going on in peoples noggins these days.

IBleedPurple
06-21-2015, 12:37 AM
Reggie Evans wished he was 24 right nowBasically. TT getting a max deal is absurd. Some players get overpaid, and then there is a deal like this that is just mind boggling.

numba1CHANGsta
06-21-2015, 01:03 AM
LOL the Cavs would be dumb to offer this guy the max

Kyben36
06-21-2015, 01:24 AM
He isnt worth it and the team that pays him will regret it,

Scoots
06-21-2015, 01:36 AM
Somebody above compared TT to Draymond...wth? hahaha my goodness, I just don't know what is going on in peoples noggins these days.

It wasn't me that compared them, but I don't understand your point ... since other than expressing a lack of understanding that they would be compared you didn't say why they can't be compared.

They play the same position on the lineup.
They play basketball.
They are both men.
They are both going to get close to the max.
They both played in the finals.

I can go on an on and on ... what is it you don't understand?

Clippersfan86
06-21-2015, 01:53 AM
Guys let's all agree none of us would support our teams paying max for a rebounding specialist. If He Was A Good Defender fine. But he's actually average on defense at best. Hell most people aren't sure someone like DJ should get max, but TT lmao?

THE MTL
06-21-2015, 02:16 AM
Idk he how denied 4yrs 52mil. Sure he can rebound but he isnt a paint protector nor does he have a decent offensive game. He honestly should get 10mil per year and maybe under the new cap structure, he'll get 13 mil.

Cavs gotta sign Lebron, Love first. I think Thompson is replaceable.

Jamiecballer
06-21-2015, 09:15 AM
TT deserves a max contract or at least something really close, what he brings to this Cavs team isn't something you can very easily find, not besides the fact that he actually enjoys doing what he does, he takes much pride in it.
His overall skill set can be argued and debated over wether or not it equates to whatever dollar amount he commands this off season BUT that doesn't matter right now, what matters is that you have a dude that accepts his role and has maximized the significance of that particular role without the relevant worth in dollar amount and he's still only 24.
No problem. Offer Amir Johnson something in the neighbourhood of 3 years and 15 million and put all that extra money somewhere else. I might have to become a Cav's fan in that case.

Vee-Rex
06-21-2015, 11:16 AM
Couldn't agree more. Although I'd add that I personally would trade Irving if I was keeping Love and use your return on him to shore up a couple other positions on the floor and open up more offensive opportunities for Love. I really like LeBron running as point and I think a 2 man offensive game with him and Love would be deadly.

Yah trade Irving for George Hill and we'd be straight bro

Vinylman
06-21-2015, 11:33 AM
BH was given a $10M contract, it's a fact. Nobody said guaranteed money, just that he got that contract.

Other than cherry picking an argument that is off topic did you have anything to say about Thompson's future deal?

He never got a contract that averaged 10 million per year... you are the one cherry picking one year out of a **** deal

Jamiecballer
06-21-2015, 11:49 AM
Yah trade Irving for George Hill and we'd be straight bro
You are being facetious of course but a low usage PG and a couple other assets would be a great trade for your team if you keep Love.

Vee-Rex
06-21-2015, 12:04 PM
I'd prefer to keep Irving over Love if I had to choose one. I'm sure every Cavs fan share the same thoughts.

I'm not so sure Love can score well on tough, playoff defense.

Scoots
06-21-2015, 12:16 PM
He never got a contract that averaged 10 million per year... you are the one cherry picking one year out of a **** deal

Look, another poster said BH got a $10M deal ... which he did ... and you said it didn't happen. It did happen. That's all. I'm sorry you don't like the facts, but I can't change them for you.

Scoots
06-21-2015, 12:17 PM
I'd prefer to keep Irving over Love if I had to choose one. I'm sure every Cavs fan share the same thoughts.

I'm not so sure Love can score well on tough, playoff defense.

I sure hope nobody prefers Love to Irving. I wonder about the health of both players though.

archdevil84
06-21-2015, 12:18 PM
its ridiculous how much money these athletes make. i mean seriously, 32 million dollar a year? thats insane

Vinylman
06-21-2015, 12:31 PM
Look, another poster said BH got a $10M deal ... which he did ... and you said it didn't happen. It did happen. That's all. I'm sorry you don't like the facts, but I can't change them for you.

dude... he said he got a $10 million per year deal... he didn't ... that deal was a poison pill it was a 4/$16 million deal... in no way is that a $10 million per year deal which he was using to rationalize paying TT a max deal...

If you think that is equivalent to TT then there really isn't any point of discussing.

Scoots
06-21-2015, 12:36 PM
its ridiculous how much money these athletes make. i mean seriously, 32 million dollar a year? thats insane

NBA Superstars are underpaid based on the money they bring to their corporations. The high pay of the middle of the road players is a direct result of the manipulated contract structure of the best in the game.

As an example, Michael Jordan made more 50% per season 20 years ago than LeBron is ALLOWED to be paid next year despite the fact that the TV contract, the merchandising, and the ticket prices are considerably higher now than then.

With the current cap rules the players get a fixed cap based on a percentage of the revenue for the team ... the owners get essentially half and the players the other half. At least we like watching the players ... I don't recall ever being entertained watching an owner. :)

The real scam isn't the athlete's contracts, but the amount of money people are forced to pay for cable and satellite TV even if they don't buy the sports packages. After this current deal expires with all the cord cutting going on and the fragmentation of the entertainment industry I expect the contracts to shrink.

Scoots
06-21-2015, 12:41 PM
dude... he said he got a $10 million per year deal... he didn't ... that deal was a poison pill it was a 4/$16 million deal... in no way is that a $10 million per year deal which he was using to rationalize paying TT a max deal...

If you think that is equivalent to TT then there really isn't any point of discussing.

He said he got a $10M contract, that's all he said, he didn't say per year, he didn't say guaranteed. It is a fact that BH signed a contract that said he'd get $10M if he played next year for the Cavs. Again, I'm sorry that bothers you, but you don't seem to be understanding that as a fact independent of any other arguments.

Personally I think it's likely TT gets a near max deal, and I don't think it has anything to do with BH or any contract he ever signed. I think it happens because GM LBJ wants him to be a Cav for life and TT already turned down $13M a year.

Federal Reserve
06-21-2015, 12:55 PM
If Thompson were a good player, the Cavaliers would have won the championship. He played okay for a team that was lacking players. I would offer him $6.5 million per year at best, and that's if I were in a good mood.

ManRam
06-21-2015, 01:04 PM
Basically. TT getting a max deal is absurd. Some players get overpaid, and then there is a deal like this that is just mind boggling.

Reggie Evans's carreer wasn't nearly as solid as TT's has been up until his 25th birthday. I get what he's going at, but that's a bit hyperbolic.


Other thing to remember: you're not signing a guy for what he's done. You're signing a player for what he will do. He's obviously continuing to improve...and nowhere near his peak level. There are a lot of realistic ways in which you could envision him getting better. $16 million a year is a lot, but paying it to the 3rd or 4th best player on your team isn't bad. If the cap jumps to ~$110M that's about 15% of your cap. That's not a big deal :shrug: And there are little to no ramifications for the Cavs this offseason either.

People get hung up on the term "max", but the maximum amount of money a guy entering his first FA isn't too detrimental this year.

ManRam
06-21-2015, 01:07 PM
If Thompson were a good player, the Cavaliers would have won the championship. He played okay for a team that was lacking players. I would offer him $6.5 million per year at best, and that's if I were in a good mood.

That's preposterous. You have a terrible grasp on the market.

blahblahyoutoo
06-21-2015, 01:09 PM
He shares an agent with Lebron James and James has said he should get paid in Cleveland. It's going to happen almost for sure imo, that the Cavs give the max to him.

this is why you don't do business with friends, and you don't let players and coaches play GM.

Clippersfan86
06-21-2015, 01:29 PM
ManRam Thompson has been underwhelming TBH. I don't see all this upside you refer to. He's a rebounding specialist with OKAY defense. I haven't seen any big leaps to suggest he's going to improve substantially. I think his cap is an 11 ppg/12 rpg kind of guy similar in caliber to Kenneth Faried, who also would not be worth max if I was the owner. In general what you are WORTH is what someone is willing to pay, and obviously someone will give him max or near max. So I won't argue his worth in terms of money, but his worth in terms of production is being overrated.

Scoots
06-21-2015, 01:29 PM
Reggie Evans's carreer wasn't nearly as solid as TT's has been up until his 25th birthday. I get what he's going at, but that's a bit hyperbolic.


Other thing to remember: you're not signing a guy for what he's done. You're signing a player for what he will do. He's obviously continuing to improve...and nowhere near his peak level. There are a lot of realistic ways in which you could envision him getting better. $16 million a year is a lot, but paying it to the 3rd or 4th best player on your team isn't bad. If the cap jumps to ~$110M that's about 15% of your cap. That's not a big deal :shrug: And there are little to no ramifications for the Cavs this offseason either.

People get hung up on the term "max", but the maximum amount of money a guy entering his first FA isn't too detrimental this year.

This.

Also NOT signing TT is bad because he's a young quality player, the team has limited ways to improve so losing quality already on the team is bad, and perhaps most of all GM LBJ said so.

Scoots
06-21-2015, 01:33 PM
ManRam Thompson has been underwhelming TBH. I don't see all this upside you refer to. He's a rebounding specialist with OKAY defense. I haven't seen any big leaps to suggest he's going to improve substantially. I think his cap is an 11 ppg/12 rpg kind of guy similar in caliber to Kenneth Faried, who also would not be worth max if I was the owner. In general what you are WORTH is what someone is willing to pay, and obviously someone will give him max or near max. So I won't argue his worth in terms of money, but his worth in terms of production is being overrated.

Yes, it's the problem with the "max" contract system. The true best players are wildly underpaid and the marginal "good" players are overpaid.

I think the real solution to this whole issue is making the NBA better able to develop players ... expand rosters to 20 player but with the same "active" player count. Right now teams have trouble developing raw players into contributors so the depth of talent in the NBA is weaker than it should be and teams always looking for a quick fix drive up the prices of the middle level players.

Clippersfan86
06-21-2015, 01:41 PM
This is why I don't understand letting Love walk to keep TT for only a few million less. Love is one year older and has proven he can play at a perennial all star type level. In the playoffs they had nobody who could score a damn bucket even when their defense was great. I'd max Love and let TT walk.

Jamiecballer
06-21-2015, 01:49 PM
I'd prefer to keep Irving over Love if I had to choose one. I'm sure every Cavs fan share the same thoughts.

I'm not so sure Love can score well on tough, playoff defense.
If you let Love walk sure why not. You watched the finals though right? Your guys were aide open off Lebron passes. Love could score those baskets.

Clippersfan86
06-21-2015, 01:51 PM
If you let Love walk sure why not. You watched the finals though right? Your guys were aide open off Lebron passes. Love could score those baskets.

Exactly. Brick after brick in open shots. Role players on Cavs shot literally 20 percent combined in the finals. Pretty much everyone outside of Lebron.

Jamiecballer
06-21-2015, 01:52 PM
That's preposterous. You have a terrible grasp on the market.
It's not about market, but what you are willing to pay this particular player. I'd let him walk past 10 aav

ThePlayoffs
06-21-2015, 01:55 PM
He is not deserving at all. End of story.

WITZ
06-21-2015, 01:56 PM
TT deserves a max contract or at least something really close, what he brings to this Cavs team isn't something you can very easily find, not besides the fact that he actually enjoys doing what he does, he takes much pride in it.
His overall skill set can be argued and debated over wether or not it equates to whatever dollar amount he commands this off season BUT that doesn't matter right now, what matters is that you have a dude that accepts his role and has maximized the significance of that particular role without the relevant worth in dollar amount and he's still only 24.

Exactly this how many young guys go from starting than getting demoted and say alright no problem ill do whats best for the team. Keep in mind the guy is also an iron man he has missed 6 games in 4 years. That and given that he has improved a ton since his rookie year were he looked like horrible and everyone was calling the cavs dumb for taking him #4. Gonna be hard having 4 guys on Max deals if he gets offered one I say cavs let him test free agency and don't outbid themselves if he gets a max then they decided if they want to match.

ThePlayoffs
06-21-2015, 02:00 PM
I'd prefer to keep Irving over Love if I had to choose one. I'm sure every Cavs fan share the same thoughts.

I'm not so sure Love can score well on tough, playoff defense.

I think love can score against good defense. When you have LBJ on the floor its going to open holes for love.

kingsdelez24
06-21-2015, 02:07 PM
09-10 Jason Thompson is wondering where his max contract is too...

Scoots
06-21-2015, 02:09 PM
But the fundamental problem is that GM LBJ said he wants TT on his team, and TT has turned down 4/$53 already. The rest is all just talk.

Will the Cavs take a chance with what LBJ wants?

kingsdelez24
06-21-2015, 02:11 PM
4 years ago he'd be a full MLE at best, and its honestly what he should get paid today. There's no reason to max out an energy guy

Clippersfan86
06-21-2015, 02:12 PM
But the fundamental problem is that GM LBJ said he wants TT on his team, and TT has turned down 4/$53 already. The rest is all just talk.

Will the Cavs take a chance with what LBJ wants?

I wonder if Lebron himself is worth the trouble TBH. In the ****** east he almost guarantees a finals trip and punchers chance.. but he's such a diva and control freak that on principal alone it would be hard to have him on the team. He's a great teammate but he treats his coaches+front office like complete ****. I don't believe in giving ANY player that much power. Not even prime Michael Jordan. It's fu**ing ridiculous. I think a Kyrie/Love duo+good depth is good enough for ECF trip WITHOUT Lebron probably.

Scoots
06-21-2015, 02:17 PM
I wonder if Lebron himself is worth the trouble TBH. In the ****** east he almost guarantees a finals trip and punchers chance.. but he's such a diva and control freak that on principal alone it would be hard to have him on the team. He's a great teammate but he treats his coaches+front office like complete ****. I don't believe in giving ANY player that much power. Not even prime Michael Jordan. It's fu**ing ridiculous. I think a Kyrie/Love duo+good depth is good enough for ECF trip WITHOUT Lebron probably.

There is that. If he was playing for a strong GM/coach he might be better, but as it is it's out of control.

That said, he is freaking brilliant on the court.

JAZZNC
06-21-2015, 02:21 PM
Anybody that thinks he is worth a max is completely insane. He is just not a good basketball player. He is an above average offensive rebounder and very, very poor offensive player. I don't feel like Draymon Green is a max type player so TT certainly isnt. I don't know what kind of world we live in where the likes of a Millsap, Green, or Thompson should even think about getting a max deal?

Scoots
06-21-2015, 02:30 PM
Anybody that thinks he is worth a max is completely insane. He is just not a good basketball player. He is an above average offensive rebounder and very, very poor offensive player. I don't feel like Draymon Green is a max type player so TT certainly isnt. I don't know what kind of world we live in where the likes of a Millsap, Green, or Thompson should even think about getting a max deal?

Well, first, how do you define "worth" ... if it's based on what the market will bear then TT is certainly a near max player.

You do understand that "max" doesn't have much of anything to do with the quality of a player when superstars should be getting 2 to 3 times as much as the max. The max contract is artificially low to protect owners from themselves on blowing it all on one contract so now they are encouraged to blow it on a few contracts instead.

With a cap of $110M paying your 4th best player $15M isn't outrageous at all.

As far as Green not being a max player ... he certainly is since several teams have made it clear they would pay it to get him. He's an elite defender of multiple positions, is a good rebounder, and passer, makes good basketball decisions, plays well in the clutch, is a decent free throw shooter and can shoot and handle exceptionally well for a PF. He's a winner and he will get a near max deal regardless of his not fitting into a handy definition of the position he plays.

ManRam
06-21-2015, 04:39 PM
It's not about market, but what you are willing to pay this particular player. I'd let him walk past 10 aav

Then you're letting him walk for ~10% of the projected cap for the final 3 years of that contract. That's AWFULLY cheap.


A lot of you are failing to grasp the context of the upcoming CBA negotiations here. Saying he's worth nothing more than MLE is just patently wrong. The MLE goes to average role players these days...not young players with tremendous upside. Not to the 3rd or 4th best player on a very good team.

Jamiecballer
06-21-2015, 05:07 PM
Then you're letting him walk for ~10% of the projected cap for the final 3 years of that contract. That's AWFULLY cheap.


A lot of you are failing to grasp the context of the upcoming CBA negotiations here. Saying he's worth nothing more than MLE is just patently wrong. The MLE goes to average role players these days...not young players with tremendous upside. Not to the 3rd or 4th best player on a very good team.
If his final year "max" salary is truly under 10% than I stand corrected. I would be comfortable paying him no more than 13 or 14% of the cap.

I can't agree with your assessment that he has much upside. And contracts shouldn't be based on things like ranking on your own team. Paying "C-" players "B" money really hurts you down the road and prevents you from acquiring the "B" players a champion needs as their 3rd or 4th best player imo

Scoots
06-21-2015, 05:27 PM
If his final year "max" salary is truly under 10% than I stand corrected. I would be comfortable paying him no more than 13 or 14% of the cap.

I can't agree with your assessment that he has much upside. And contracts shouldn't be based on things like ranking on your own team. Paying "C-" players "B" money really hurts you down the road and prevents you from acquiring the "B" players a champion needs as their 3rd or 4th best player imo

I think you are correct, but the problem is, when you are cap strapped how do you acquire the needed B players?

D-Leethal
06-21-2015, 05:31 PM
It's not about market, but what you are willing to pay this particular player. I'd let him walk past 10 aav

What you are willing to pay a player is dictated by the market. TT's pick and roll defense is top notch. People don't seem to be able to grasp that. Versatile defenders who can trap the PnR and switch onto the perimeter are getting more valuable by the minute in today's NBA.

Jamiecballer
06-21-2015, 06:04 PM
What you are willing to pay a player is dictated by the market. TT's pick and roll defense is top notch. People don't seem to be able to grasp that. Versatile defenders who can trap the PnR and switch onto the perimeter are getting more valuable by the minute in today's NBA.
Well that's a wee bit of hyperbole. Just curious, did you think he was that good before Blatt arrived to coach?

Also, while you are almost right about what you pay being dictate by the market, we should remember also that there are always guys out there who are underpaid according to the current market. Good GMs find bargains.

Scoots
06-21-2015, 06:35 PM
Well that's a wee bit of hyperbole. Just curious, did you think he was that good before Blatt arrived to coach?

Also, while you are almost right about what you pay being dictate by the market, we should remember also that there are always guys out there who are underpaid according to the current market. Good GMs find bargains.

You need a coaching staff who can develop players and a GM who gets players who fit your system, your coaches, and your culture. That's a lot of work to coach/GM LBJ to take on during his time off :)

D-Leethal
06-21-2015, 06:46 PM
Well that's a wee bit of hyperbole. Just curious, did you think he was that good before Blatt arrived to coach?

Also, while you are almost right about what you pay being dictate by the market, we should remember also that there are always guys out there who are underpaid according to the current market. Good GMs find bargains.

And good agents take advantage of the market landscape and contract year hype to get their young players paid on their first big contracts. I didn't watch enough of Cleveland while they were terrible to notice the nuances of his game like his ability to defend the perimeter and trap pick and rolls. But it's clear his ability to defend the pick and roll is as good as it gets in the NBA and it's not very difficult to argue that is the most valuable aspect of team defense in today's NBA.

There are not many guys in the league with the combination of size and lateral quickness to trap, hedge, switch and retreat like TT can. That is why GS would constantly attack Mozgov when Curry picked them apart later in the series, specifically late in game 6. They are going to be well over the cap for a long time anyway, a good GM wouldn't a budding young player like TT walk over a couple extra mill and go find a cheap bargain. He is growing as a player and still has untapped potential.

Jamiecballer
06-21-2015, 07:33 PM
You need a coaching staff who can develop players and a GM who gets players who fit your system, your coaches, and your culture. That's a lot of work to coach/GM LBJ to take on during his time off :)
Lol

Jamiecballer
06-21-2015, 07:40 PM
And good agents take advantage of the market landscape and contract year hype to get their young players paid on their first big contracts. I didn't watch enough of Cleveland while they were terrible to notice the nuances of his game like his ability to defend the perimeter and trap pick and rolls. But it's clear his ability to defend the pick and roll is as good as it gets in the NBA and it's not very difficult to argue that is the most valuable aspect of team defense in today's NBA.

There are not many guys in the league with the combination of size and lateral quickness to trap, hedge, switch and retreat like TT can. That is why GS would constantly attack Mozgov when Curry picked them apart later in the series, specifically late in game 6. They are going to be well over the cap for a long time anyway, a good GM wouldn't a budding young player like TT walk over a couple extra mill and go find a cheap bargain. He is growing as a player and still has untapped potential.
Fair enough. I don't feel comfortable making those statements about his game because I don't watch more than a couple dozen out of market games a season. If i thought he was that elite at defending the pick and roll plus his rebounding I would be willing to up my bid as well. I just haven't noticed it.

KB24PG16
06-21-2015, 07:58 PM
hopefully cleveland gives it to him

buck4493
06-21-2015, 09:00 PM
You need a coaching staff who can develop players and a GM who gets players who fit your system, your coaches, and your culture. That's a lot of work to coach/GM LBJ to take on during his time off :)
Lol

Or u need a player to be the gm and lead team to finals. Apparently every other gm failed with exception of gst

OlivaThor
06-22-2015, 02:03 PM
Of course he will get max. Everybody gets max novadays. Is he worth it? Thats another question

Tony_Starks
06-22-2015, 02:36 PM
He's definitely worth TODAYS max. You know exactly what he's going to give you and he's even lo key adding some post moves to the arsenal...

mjarmentasr
06-22-2015, 02:55 PM
hopefully cleveland gives it to him

I pray to God they give it to him. I hope they give it to Shumpert and JR Smith, and resign Della, and Love walks.

They will be over the cap even with the new ceiling.

jason
06-22-2015, 03:03 PM
All due respect to Johnson, who I've always liked, but he was never really the rebounder that TT is.



Do you think Draymond is worth it? I do and I don't think they're terribly far apart as players. Draymond is a better passer and shooter, but a far inferior rebounder and isn't really athletic enough to be a SF fulltime (not to mention a bigger offensive liability as one). TT is younger and has more upside as a defender, and is already among the best offensive rebounders in the game.

I think Draymond is better player. TT might be better at rebounding but not by much. Green is a better defender and they're only one year apart

flea
06-22-2015, 06:01 PM
I think Draymond is better player. TT might be better at rebounding but not by much. Green is a better defender and they're only one year apart

I'm a big Draymond fan since college and yes I think he's better now, but Thompson is just entering his prime and has significantly more upside. Draymond played an all-time great team and was certainly one of the 4-5 best and most impactful players on that team, but we shouldn't get carried away. He's more Robert Horry than he is Dennis Rodman.

There's a reason one guy was a #4 pick as a one-and-done and the other was a 2nd rounder after 4 years of a highly decorated collegiate career. Draymond is a below average rebounder for a PF and it showed at times in the playoffs - especially in the Finals, GS was a bottom 10 rebounding team all year, etc. His passing is about the only thing that makes his offensive game tolerable for a forward, as he's only a stand-still shooter (and below average even at that) and a good but not great finisher with no post game. If he didn't play for such a wide-open offensive team I think his warts on that end would be a lot more apparent.

TT meanwhile wreaked havoc on the glass all playoffs, especially vs. Draymond, and has been good at it all his career - plus he's a much better athlete (though not a top-end Blake Griffin type). But with way better length and lateral ability he's a far superior defender to Blake and most PFs in the game. I think at worst he'll be a rich man's Taj Gibson and will remain among the best offensive rebounders in the game for the next 7-10 years.

I don't know, it'll be interesting to see who is better when it's all said and done. They're both going to get paid though - and they both may have role player skills but at least TT has one skill that dwarfs 99% of the rest of the guys in the league.

Scoots
06-22-2015, 06:20 PM
flea, I agree to most of that. Green's rebounding is hampered by the offense and defense they play, but yes TT is better. On D Green has been VERY good from day 1 ... yes he is athletically limited to how far he can go from here, but he's already one of the best so if TT has more potential it must be that TT could be the best in the game. My favorite Draymond stat of the year is that he had more blocks of Dirk than anyone else this year AND more steals from CP3 than any other player. Draymond is worth more to the Warriors because their team fits him, but no doubt he's a great player full stop. As far as his offensive game ... in scoring the ball he's not great ... not close. That said in 3 years in the NBA his 3pt % went from 20% to 33% and his 2pt % went from 36% to 52% ... he got noticeably better with his ball handling and short range game during the season this year. Green's game isn't reflected well on the stat sheet, but he changes most games he's in significantly.

I saw maybe 25 Cavs games this year and TT is good and he REALLY hustles on the offensive boards and he's a very good man defender for a big. And LBJ said he wants him so he's going to get paid ... but Green is a better player today, and my guess is he'll be a better player 4 years from now too.

Chronz
06-22-2015, 09:29 PM
I think Draymond is better player. TT might be better at rebounding but not by much. Green is a better defender and they're only one year apart

Dray is FAR superior to TT. TT doesn't help his team anywhere near as much, you're talking about a PF with no range and inferior defensively. In today's pace and space league, being a 2-way player who can both space you out and distribute while being able to switch onto anyone is far more valuable than being a 1 trick pony who doesn't open up the game for anyone and actually shrinks the court with his lack of range. You would have to be DJ level type of finisher for his rebounding to mean something in this comp.

Chronz
06-22-2015, 09:34 PM
I'm a big Draymond fan since college and yes I think he's better now, but Thompson is just entering his prime and has significantly more upside. Draymond played an all-time great team and was certainly one of the 4-5 best and most impactful players on that team, but we shouldn't get carried away. He's more Robert Horry than he is Dennis Rodman.

There's a reason one guy was a #4 pick as a one-and-done and the other was a 2nd rounder after 4 years of a highly decorated collegiate career. Draymond is a below average rebounder for a PF and it showed at times in the playoffs - especially in the Finals, GS was a bottom 10 rebounding team all year, etc. His passing is about the only thing that makes his offensive game tolerable for a forward, as he's only a stand-still shooter (and below average even at that) and a good but not great finisher with no post game. If he didn't play for such a wide-open offensive team I think his warts on that end would be a lot more apparent.

TT meanwhile wreaked havoc on the glass all playoffs, especially vs. Draymond, and has been good at it all his career - plus he's a much better athlete (though not a top-end Blake Griffin type). But with way better length and lateral ability he's a far superior defender to Blake and most PFs in the game. I think at worst he'll be a rich man's Taj Gibson and will remain among the best offensive rebounders in the game for the next 7-10 years.

I don't know, it'll be interesting to see who is better when it's all said and done. They're both going to get paid though - and they both may have role player skills but at least TT has one skill that dwarfs 99% of the rest of the guys in the league.

Rodman+Horry = Ultimate glue guy.

Rebounding isn't more important than defense, their lack of rebounding didn't prevent his team from being the best defensive team and its because of his defensive versatility.

TT HAS to rebound because he offers nothing in the way of court vision or offensive efficiency, despite him "wreaking havoc" he mucked up the spacing as a 4 and is pretty much making it harder for his team to score, if he were a DJ level athlete/finisher, then his rebounding prowess would be more valuable. He has more potential but that means nothing until it translates into production. TT has improved his rim protection but hes a ways away from reaching Taj level of defensive impact. Much less go-to post scoring.

Vinylman
06-23-2015, 09:39 PM
Dray is FAR superior to TT. TT doesn't help his team anywhere near as much, you're talking about a PF with no range and inferior defensively. In today's pace and space league, being a 2-way player who can both space you out and distribute while being able to switch onto anyone is far more valuable than being a 1 trick pony who doesn't open up the game for anyone and actually shrinks the court with his lack of range. You would have to be DJ level type of finisher for his rebounding to mean something in this comp.

thank god... scary that you are the voice of reason...

flea
06-24-2015, 07:51 PM
Rodman+Horry = Ultimate glue guy.

Rebounding isn't more important than defense, their lack of rebounding didn't prevent his team from being the best defensive team and its because of his defensive versatility.

TT HAS to rebound because he offers nothing in the way of court vision or offensive efficiency, despite him "wreaking havoc" he mucked up the spacing as a 4 and is pretty much making it harder for his team to score, if he were a DJ level athlete/finisher, then his rebounding prowess would be more valuable. He has more potential but that means nothing until it translates into production. TT has improved his rim protection but hes a ways away from reaching Taj level of defensive impact. Much less go-to post scoring.

Yeah but he's not a terrible finisher. That was Reggie Evans's problem, and general defensive ineptitude. He's got solid length/touch but I'm not sure he'll get a whole lot better around the rim. Taj has neither finishing ability nor much post ability (no more than Thompson already possesses at least). He's so slow going up, I feel like his rate numbers have really benefited from playing with a top 5 post passer. Thompson can have that same impact playing with Lebron IMO and he's a lot quicker with his moves.

I think Lebron really wants to keep him for the same reason, he sees a poor man's Rodman in him who can handle the 4 or 5 and consistently cause problems on the offensive glass, whether he finishes or not. Takes a lot of defensive responsibilities away from Lebron (vs. a no-D stretch 4 like Love) in addition to offensive contributions.

dalton749
06-24-2015, 08:01 PM
A max for a guy who can't put the ball in the basket is a ridiculous idea. I can't see any gm doing it

Chronz
06-24-2015, 08:17 PM
Yeah but he's not a terrible finisher. That was Reggie Evans's problem, and general defensive ineptitude. He's got solid length/touch but I'm not sure he'll get a whole lot better around the rim. Taj has neither finishing ability nor much post ability (no more than Thompson already possesses at least). He's so slow going up, I feel like his rate numbers have really benefited from playing with a top 5 post passer. Thompson can have that same impact playing with Lebron IMO and he's a lot quicker with his moves.

I think Lebron really wants to keep him for the same reason, he sees a poor man's Rodman in him who can handle the 4 or 5 and consistently cause problems on the offensive glass, whether he finishes or not. Takes a lot of defensive responsibilities away from Lebron (vs. a no-D stretch 4 like Love) in addition to offensive contributions.

How often did you watch the Bulls? Taj was the go-to bench scorer for them and their most frequently turned to post option. At least 2 years ago he was pretty good at it but it was less effective this year for whatever reason.

Taj had a PostPlay frequency of 28.3. Thats comparable to Pau Gasol and he finished with greater efficiency. Hes not quite the passer Pau is tho so Pau still generates more points but compared to TT, who practically never posts up and turns it over with much greater frequency regardless. The guy isn't an offensive threat and in that regard hes very similar to Reggie Evans, only he can move his feet on the perimeter whereas Evans can body you up in the post.

Rodman was like the 5th highest paid player in the league at one point IIRC, he was pretty good. TT is barely above league average IMO.

flea
06-24-2015, 08:24 PM
How often did you watch the Bulls? Taj was the go-to bench scorer for them and their most frequently turned to post option. At least 2 years ago he was pretty good at it but it was less effective this year for whatever reason.

Taj had a PostPlay frequency of 28.3. Thats comparable to Pau Gasol and he finished with greater efficiency. Hes not quite the passer Pau is tho so Pau still generates more points but compared to TT, who practically never posts up and turns it over with much greater frequency regardless. The guy isn't an offensive threat and in that regard hes very similar to Reggie Evans, only he can move his feet on the perimeter whereas Evans can body you up in the post.

Rodman was like the 5th highest paid player in the league at one point IIRC, he was pretty good. TT is barely above league average IMO.

Watched them mostly national games this year, but I watched them more than that over the last few years because I'm a Jo Noah fan. Don't know what "PostPlay frequency" means exactly, but I assume it's some sort of rate of touches with back to the basket.

Regardless, it wouldn't surprise me because Thibs plays more inside-out offense than most teams these days. Taj still only shoots 18% of the time for his career in the 3-10 post area, and doesn't convert very well there. He also is a decent finisher by numbers but like I said I think it's because of the dump-off offense and post passer he plays with. He gathers really low before he goes up, and usually takes a dribble to gather, and it makes his finishes pretty easy to recover on. W/E though, nobody is going to confuse him for Kevin McHale. I think Thompson is already at least as good as Taj - maybe not as good of a passer but he is not a serious liability at that either.

Scoots
06-24-2015, 09:07 PM
Grading players on their offensive ability is passe ... It's the total package that matters. A player who is incredibly good on D has high value even if they don't play O (Rodman would be a max player now).

TT is worth what he turned down, he's probably going to make more than that.

Jamiecballer
06-25-2015, 04:50 PM
Grading players on their offensive ability is passe ... It's the total package that matters. A player who is incredibly good on D has high value even if they don't play O (Rodman would be a max player now).

TT is worth what he turned down, he's probably going to make more than that.
I agree but Thompson isn't great at anything imo

Vee-Rex
06-25-2015, 05:04 PM
I agree but Thompson isn't great at anything imo

Not sure what you mean by 'great', but I think he's a top 10 rebounder in the league. Top 3 offensive rebounder, if not the best.

I still wouldn't want to max him. But the Cavs organization is gonna try to do what they think will please LeBron and if that means maxing Tristan then so be it. It's just a sucky situation for people who are fans of the Cavs.

Jamiecballer
06-25-2015, 06:46 PM
Not sure what you mean by 'great', but I think he's a top 10 rebounder in the league. Top 3 offensive rebounder, if not the best.

I still wouldn't want to max him. But the Cavs organization is gonna try to do what they think will please LeBron and if that means maxing Tristan then so be it. It's just a sucky situation for people who are fans of the Cavs.
Yeah, he's pretty good on the offensive glass, that is true.

Clint Olbrock
06-25-2015, 07:37 PM
I think he will get it but I don't think he should.