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View Full Version : Where do you Rank the 2014/2015 Golden State Warriors all time?



Vampirate
06-18-2015, 04:36 PM
Sorry if the subject was done already.

Well they did what they needed to, only question is how good were the Warriors all time?

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-18-2015, 05:12 PM
Top 15ish


There are quite a few teams that match up very well against the Warriors. I can name ten off the top off my head that are better. This is not a knock on the Warriors either, there are some insane all time championship teams.

Gander13SM
06-18-2015, 05:17 PM
Hmm. Taking into account W/L. SRS. MOV. ORtg. DRtg. Depth of the west. I think statistically this was a top 6 season (single season).

But taking into account the injuries to key players such as Conley, Allen, Kyrie, Love etc etc. And the luck of avoiding the Spurs. I'm hesitant to say in general, the season is probably top 10-15.

The team itself? I wouldn't judge after one year. But in a vacuum I'm thinking top 15-20 off the top of my head. But I'm not giving it much thought right now.

Before anyone rants I'm not putting them down or putting an asterisks on their title because of injuries. They can only play who advances and who the team puts out there. They did what they were supposed to do and even if all those teams were at full health they likely would have gotten just as far and done it all again. Besides this happens more than people care to remember (1990 Bulls, 2008 Celtics, Pistons x2 etc). And the Cavs had an easier road to the finals than the Warriors did anyway.

KnicksorBust
06-18-2015, 05:20 PM
Hmm. Taking into account W/L. SRS. MOV. ORtg. DRtg. Depth of the west. I think statistically this was a top 6 season (single season).

But taking into account the injuries to key players such as Conley, Allen, Kyrie, Love etc etc. And the luck of avoiding the Spurs. I'm hesitant to say in general, the season is probably top 10-15.

The team itself? I wouldn't judge after one year. But in a vacuum I'm thinking top 15-20 off the top of my head. But I'm not giving it much thought right now.

Before anyone rants I'm not putting them down or putting an asterisks on their title because of injuries. They can only play who advances and who the team puts out there. They did what they were supposed to do and even if all those teams were at full health they likely would have gotten just as far and done it all again. Besides this happens more than people care to remember (1990 Bulls, 2008 Celtics, Pistons x2 etc). And the Cavs had an easier road to the finals than the Warriors did anyway.

Excellent post. I thought I was going to read people laughing at the idea of them as an all-time team... and don't worry some will...but this post nicely sums up my opinion. Until we see how the careers of Curry, Klay, Barnes and Draymond play out it will be hard for some people to compare them to an 80s Lakers, 80s Celtics, 90s Bulls, etc.

Gander13SM
06-18-2015, 05:20 PM
Top 15ish


There are quite a few teams that match up very well against the Warriors. I can name ten off the top off my head that are better. This is not a knock on the Warriors either, there are some insane all time championship teams.

Since the 90s I'm thinking '96 Bulls and one of those early Laker championship seasons. Maybe 2000? Then possibly '03 or '14 Spurs?

I can't think of any others post 1990.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-18-2015, 05:24 PM
Top 15ish


There are quite a few teams that match up very well against the Warriors. I can name ten off the top off my head that are better. This is not a knock on the Warriors either, there are some insane all time championship teams.

Since the 90s I'm thinking '96 Bulls and one of those early Laker championship seasons. Maybe 2000? Then possibly '03 or '14 Spurs?

I can't think of any others post 1990.

All three early 2000's lakers teams would beat the Warriors down, shaq was unstoppable. A few Spurs teams would probably beat up on the Warriors as well. I also believe the Warriors would have trouble with a prime gasol and Kobe during their back to back run.

Chronz
06-18-2015, 05:33 PM
Co-sign with KoB, its hard to tell until we see how the careers of these guys pan out and how they defend their title. They dont necessarily have to win again, tho that would definitely cement their legacy but I really hated the way these playoffs worked out. From a regular season+chip pov, its hard to keep them out of the top-6

Gander13SM
06-18-2015, 05:47 PM
All three early 2000's lakers teams would beat the Warriors down, shaq was unstoppable. A few Spurs teams would probably beat up on the Warriors as well. I also believe the Warriors would have trouble with a prime gasol and Kobe during their back to back run.

I feel like Shaq would destroy them... If it was 2000. But with the more complex defenses and zone being allowed. I'm not convinced the later versions of that Lakers threepeat would have bested them. It would have been fun to see either way.

As for Gasol/Kobe. They could be better. I'm just not convinced that they are.

Chronz
06-18-2015, 05:54 PM
I feel like Shaq would destroy them... If it was 2000. But with the more complex defenses and zone being allowed. I'm not convinced the later versions of that Lakers threepeat would have bested them. It would have been fun to see either way.

As for Gasol/Kobe. They could be better. I'm just not convinced that they are.

Shaq was unique in how big of a target he was, how great his hands were, his spatial awareness+athletic ability would have negated most of those zone sandwiches. Hes also a tremendous passer so he would instantly know where to deliver the ball. Hes also the GOAT Finisher down low so I can imagine Kobe benefiting from the reduced handchecks to dump the ball off. Kobe could defend Curry while Fish defended Klay. Horry was the preeminent stretch-4 and would have been even more useful against that matchup zone.

Chronz
06-18-2015, 05:54 PM
I feel like Shaq would destroy them... If it was 2000. But with the more complex defenses and zone being allowed. I'm not convinced the later versions of that Lakers threepeat would have bested them. It would have been fun to see either way.

As for Gasol/Kobe. They could be better. I'm just not convinced that they are.

Shaq was unique in how big of a target he was, how great his hands were, his spatial awareness+athletic ability would have negated most of those zone sandwiches. Hes also a tremendous passer so he would instantly know where to deliver the ball. Hes also the GOAT Finisher down low so I can imagine Kobe benefiting from the reduced handchecks to dump the ball off. Kobe could defend Curry while Fish defended Klay. Horry was the preeminent stretch-4 and would have been even more useful against that matchup zone.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-18-2015, 06:00 PM
I feel like Shaq would destroy them... If it was 2000. But with the more complex defenses and zone being allowed. I'm not convinced the later versions of that Lakers threepeat would have bested them. It would have been fun to see either way.

As for Gasol/Kobe. They could be better. I'm just not convinced that they are.

Shaq was unique in how big of a target he was, how great his hands were, his spatial awareness+athletic ability would have negated most of those zone sandwiches. Hes also a tremendous passer so he would instantly know where to deliver the ball. Hes also the GOAT Finisher down low so I can imagine Kobe benefiting from the reduced handchecks to dump the ball off. Kobe could defend Curry while Fish defended Klay. Horry was the preeminent stretch-4 and would have been even more useful against that matchup zone.

Glad to see you agree with me

Gander13SM
06-18-2015, 06:03 PM
Shaq was unique in how big of a target he was, how great his hands were, his spatial awareness+athletic ability would have negated most of those zone sandwiches. Hes also a tremendous passer so he would instantly know where to deliver the ball. Hes also the GOAT Finisher down low so I can imagine Kobe benefiting from the reduced handchecks to dump the ball off. Kobe could defend Curry while Fish defended Klay. Horry was the preeminent stretch-4 and would have been even more useful against that matchup zone.

Very well argued. I concede. It's not like the Warriors play a lot of zone anyway.

lol, please
06-18-2015, 06:22 PM
Top 6.

tredigs
06-18-2015, 06:30 PM
Some will argue it's tough to say given the Love/Kyrie injuries, but they basically handled business at every corner. Exceeded expectations? Check. A week before the season they were projected to win 50 games and were 25 to 1 to win the title, in between the Mavs and Wizards. Dominant regular season in a stacked conference? Check. Top 10 All Time in win%, margin of victory and subsequently SRS. I've seen a few sites like 538 try their hand at statistically ranking the best reg seasons ever, and they come in top 5 on them all. Playoffs wise, the teams they faced did not hold it together for the most part due to injury (not uncommon for the losing teams, but there was a lot), and the Warriors 2nd best offensive player + AllNBA player never really got it going, so there was a bit to be desired. Overall though, they went through a healthy version of every All NBA 1st Team member in each series (that was the first time that's happened), and in the only two times they faced adversity (down 2-1 to Mem/Cle), they finished 3-0 to close out the series in 6. Averaged ~5 games per playoff series, and won 83 total games. Other teams to win 83+ games = 96 Bulls and 97 Bulls.

The game has evolved as a 3 and D league slowly but surely over the past decade+, and this team is the pinnacle of that concept. As equally as we can point to a dominant force like '01 Shaq thrashing in the paint (which he would), just think of the damage Curry and/or Klay would dismantle the 34+ minutes of D. Fish on the perimeter (Fish on Klay would be as useless as Delladova on Klay. He'd shoot over him all day with extreme ease and high efficiency). And remember, 40% from 3 = 60% from 2.

It was a top 10 team all time. But we'll find out more about them on the whole after their attempt at a repeat/dynasty in the coming year(s).

Chronz
06-18-2015, 06:38 PM
Glad to see you agree with me

01 Lakers, absolutely. 02 and 00, not so sure. Kobe wasn't developed enough in 00 and Shaq began to slip defensively in 02 and the supporting cast was declining with kupcake taking over.

Chronz
06-18-2015, 06:47 PM
Very well argued. I concede. It's not like the Warriors play a lot of zone anyway.

Everyone plays alot of zone my man. Its the Thibs effect, overloading strongside box is common against isolation clear outs, especially come playoffs, its just you can still build effective post up offenses if the talent is there. You just need to disguise it cleverly and with a talent like Kobe on the wing + shooters, you can most definitely get Shaq the room he needs to operate. The offensive gameplan would definitely change but believe me, the minute zones were legalized, it was with the intention to stop Shaq. It didn't, it effected the rest of the league to a much larger degree.

Also, part of the reason the league has gotten smaller is because there are no Shaqs. Back in the day it was mandatory for any contender to have some hulking behemoth who could at the very least foul Shaq. Guys like Ostertag and Elden Cambell would have no place in todays NBA. And I think its telling that even Shaq on his final days was producing at an All-Star rate (per minute/when healthy) and he was an All-Star as recently as 2009 IIRC. Prime Shaq was unstoppable no matter the era, the more bodies you had to commit to stopping him the more he opened up the game for his teammates.

Chronz
06-18-2015, 06:52 PM
Some will argue it's tough to say given the Love/Kyrie injuries, but they basically handled business at every corner. Exceeded expectations? Check. A week before the season they were projected to win 50 games and were 25 to 1 to win the title, in between the Mavs and Wizards. Dominant regular season in a stacked conference? Check. Top 10 All Time in win%, margin of victory and subsequently SRS. I've seen a few sites like 538 try their hand at statistically ranking the best reg seasons ever, and they come in top 5 on them all. Playoffs wise, the teams they faced did not hold it together for the most part due to injury (not uncommon for the losing teams, but there was a lot), and the Warriors 2nd best offensive player + AllNBA player never really got it going, so there was a bit to be desired. Overall though, they went through a healthy version of every All NBA 1st Team member in each series (that was the first time that's happened), and in the only two times they faced adversity (down 2-1 to Mem/Cle), they finished 3-0 to close out the series in 6. Averaged ~5 games per playoff series, and won 83 total games. Other teams to win 83+ games = 96 Bulls and 97 Bulls.

The game has evolved as a 3 and D league slowly but surely over the past decade+, and this team is the pinnacle of that concept. As equally as we can point to a dominant force like '01 Shaq thrashing in the paint (which he would), just think of the damage Curry and/or Klay would dismantle the 34+ minutes of D. Fish on the perimeter (Fish on Klay would be as useless as Delladova on Klay. He'd shoot over him all day with extreme ease and high efficiency). And remember, 40% from 3 = 60% from 2.

It was a top 10 team all time. But we'll find out more about them on the whole after their attempt at a repeat/dynasty in the coming year(s).
Good post, except you underrate Fisher defensively. As you said, Klay struggled this year and wasn't really tasked with much. Fish specializes in navigating through screens, he has bottled up superior scorers than the likes of Klay. Not to mention Kobe being able to guard either one of them.

Munkeysuit
06-18-2015, 07:14 PM
Top 12-14 maybe? it was pretty impressive till Lebron nearly beat them single handedly...not sure if it was the Warriors fault or just the greatness of James but they did not play like they did all season during these finals.
Hopefully they continue their success though! they are definitely one of the most exciting teams to watch of all time, thats for sure.

tredigs
06-18-2015, 07:15 PM
Good post, except you underrate Fisher defensively. As you said, Klay struggled this year and wasn't really tasked with much. Fish specializes in navigating through screens, he has bottled up superior scorers than the likes of Klay. Not to mention Kobe being able to guard either one of them.


Kobe would try to guard Curry, but even he couldn't do it on his own. Every team that doesn't double him gets in trouble. We saw it time and again all year, and even with a high end perimeter defender like Shump, he needed help. The Delly dialogue was cute for a couple games and he did a great job as an aggravater who Curry was unaccustomed to, but that got figured out pretty quick. I see him and Fish as relatively similar on the defensive end Klay was having a field day with Delly on him by simply shooting over him with his high release. Fish might've had more strength, but unless he's fouling him he can't reach Klay's shot line, and it'd be more of the same. And even a young Fish is getting crossed over and pulled up on by Curry all day in ISO. This would also be the toughest backcourt Kobe would have ever faced, and that extra work chasing around on the defensive end would be taxing on him. And for as much as people like to say Curry struggled with his shot in this series, he just posted the 3rd highest 4th quarter PPG in modern Finals history, and did it on a 75% TS (the highest of any in the top 10).

The consensus seems to be that it's a Lakers breeze and I'm not sure that the Warriors win, but I think it's a very interesting/tough series.

tredigs
06-18-2015, 07:21 PM
Top 12-14 maybe? it was pretty impressive till Lebron nearly beat them single handedly...not sure if it was the Warriors fault or just the greatness of James but they did not play like they did all season during these finals.
Hopefully they continue their success though! they are definitely one of the most exciting teams to watch of all time, thats for sure.

Not sure I'd say that James nearly beat them single-handidly. That'd imply that he was a force on both ends, not hiding on Barnes defensively in the corner for the bulk of the series. It would also imply that the Warriors didn't force James to miss 118 of his 196 total field goal attempts in this series. That's gotta be some sort of record for misses. James did the bulk of their heavy lifting and helped orchestrate an impressive 2-1 start to the series. Then the Warriors went 3-0 and averaged 15 point victories.

Tony_Starks
06-18-2015, 07:25 PM
Far outside of the top 10. Couldnt beat any of the 2000 Lakers, couldn't beat the Big 3 Celtics, MJs Bulls, etc...... That's a lot right there.

Could they beat the Chauncey/ Sheed and co Pistons? That would be intriguing. Supreme D vs small ball long range sniping.

Chronz
06-18-2015, 07:50 PM
Kobe would try to guard Curry, but even he couldn't do it on his own. Every team that doesn't double him gets in trouble. We saw it time and again all year, and even with a high end perimeter defender like Shump, he needed help. The Delly dialogue was cute for a couple games and he did a great job as an aggravater who Curry was unaccustomed to, but that got figured out pretty quick. I see him and Fish as relatively similar on the defensive end Klay was having a field day with Delly on him by simply shooting over him with his high release. Fish might've had more strength, but unless he's fouling him he can't reach Klay's shot line, and it'd be more of the same. And even a young Fish is getting crossed over and pulled up on by Curry all day in ISO. This would also be the toughest backcourt Kobe would have ever faced, and that extra work chasing around on the defensive end would be taxing on him. And for as much as people like to say Curry struggled with his shot in this series, he just posted the 3rd highest 4th quarter PPG in modern Finals history, and did it on a 75% TS (the highest of any in the top 10).

The consensus seems to be that it's a Lakers breeze and I'm not sure that the Warriors win, but I think it's a very interesting/tough series.

High end? Shump isn't very high end IMO. Delly couldn't check the likes of Klay the way Fish could and Kobe's length would hurt Steph. If Steph is just relying on screen action as opposed to just clearing out Delly then hes easier to guard. Im not convinced on Klay just shooting over anyone, if he plays as badly as he did in these Finals, hes missing even the most open of shots at a rate he didn't most of the playoffs+regular season. Fish is definitely quicker than Delly so its more than just strength and that strength matters beyond fouling, its what helps allows Fisher to fight through screens and force players to put on the floor, where it again comes into play.

4th quarter scoring doesn't matter as much as the entire game. Against the Lakers, he wouldn't be able to pick and choose his spots so deliberately as the team would be down far sooner had he been so passive. These Lakers werent slouches offensively, they turned it up defensively come playoffs.

Agree to disagree but those 01 Lakers are the best team I've ever seen. Kobe would force Curry to rely extensively on the PnR and wouldn't dance around him the way he could Delly, which would ease the burden on his bigs in transition. It just felt like Clevelands bigs were always aware of how overmatched Delly was and had to provide constant attention.

SteveNash
06-18-2015, 08:22 PM
Very weak team despite their "accomplishments" a definite lack of competition which is hard to hold against them, but they showed in the playoffs how unimpressive their team actually is. Just happened to be very fortunate with both injuries and officiating propelling them.

Tony_Starks
06-18-2015, 08:29 PM
Very weak team despite their "accomplishments" a definite lack of competition which is hard to hold against them, but they showed in the playoffs how unimpressive their team actually is. Just happened to be very fortunate with both injuries and officiating propelling them.

To me its more of a statement of where the league is today. In today's NBA they are definitely elite and I'm going out on a limb to say in serious contention for the next 5 or so years granted they keep the team together. By today's standards they are definitely to be respected.

But when you actually compare them to the champs with lethal inside and out games they can't match up.

SteveNash
06-18-2015, 08:33 PM
To me its more of a statement of where the league is today. In today's NBA they are definitely elite and I'm going out on a limb to say in serious contention for the next 5 or so years granted they keep the team together. By today's standards they are definitely to be respected.

But when you actually compare them to the champs with lethal inside and out games they can't match up.

I can't think of a single modern champion they'd beat. 06 Heat were probably the weakest, but I still think they'd have a tough time matching up.

tredigs
06-18-2015, 08:46 PM
I can't think of a single modern champion they'd beat. 06 Heat were probably the weakest, but I still think they'd have a tough time matching up.

You also picked them to lose in every round of this post-season, iirc.

G_S_W
06-18-2015, 09:21 PM
It's far too early to consider the '15 Dubs in comparison to the all time great teams, first of all.

Second, it doesn't make a lot of sense to compare teams from different eras, for some very obvious reasons.

Having said that, the Dubs have a single title vs:

1. Jordan's Bulls, with six titles
2. Magic's Lakers, with five
3. Bird's C's with three
4. Isiah's Pistons with two, overlapping both the Lakers/Celts and Jordan's Bulls
5. Duncan's Spurs with five
6. Shaq/Kobe's Lake Show with three

In 5 of those 6 cases, the teams were led by Top10 GOAT greats: Jordan, Magic, Bird, Duncan, Shaq and probably Kobe (top 12 at worst). Those 5 players combined for TWENTY TWO championships.

The Dubs have a single chip under extremely favorable circumstances, facing a WC and Finals opponent depleted by injuries.

1a. Against the Bulls, Pip, Jordan and Harp would eat the Splash Bros. alive.
2a. The Lake Show with Magic obviously were among the greatest of all time, and Kareem, even past his prime, was still incredibly dominant.
3a. The Celtics were just too deep and versatile. Ridiculously loaded.

That's 14 titles right there. The Dubs don't match up favorably against any of those title teams. Different eras with fewer and far more loaded teams in the 80's (especially) and 90's.

The '15 Dubs are closest to the versatile Pistons teams with very deep teams without a top 10 GOAT superstar. Even then, with their superior physical defense (bad boys) and fantastic scoring options (Laimbeer on the perimeter, Dumars, Isiah, microwave and aguirre off the bench, I think the championship pistons would still be favored.

Shaq, Kobe and Phil would be too much for the young, relatively inexperienced Dubs.

The Dubs might fare "best" against Pop/Duncan/Manu/Parker Spurs? Hard to say, as these teams are among the greatest passing and most versatile teams of all time.

This is not to mention any of Bill Russell's 11 title teams.

If the Dubs can compile multiple chips, I think they would rank more favorably among the all time great teams. At best, it's too early to tell. At worst, outside of the top 20.

Let's see what happens over the next few seasons when the Dubs will face more formidable (i.e., healthier) opposition.

The warriors grade so far, in comparison to all time great teams: "INCOMPLETE"

SteveNash
06-18-2015, 09:34 PM
You also picked them to lose in every round of this post-season, iirc.

You recall incorrectly as I picked them every round of this postseason and who wouldn't given the competition they were given. Asterisk all the way through.

sciferguy
06-18-2015, 09:47 PM
I think last year's spurs team takes them out in 5 and this year's team does it in 6.

JordansBulls
06-18-2015, 09:50 PM
Co-sign with KoB, its hard to tell until we see how the careers of these guys pan out and how they defend their title. They dont necessarily have to win again, tho that would definitely cement their legacy but I really hated the way these playoffs worked out. From a regular season+chip pov, its hard to keep them out of the top-6

Think of 1983 Sixers who dominated and the next year lost in round 1.

Cal827
06-18-2015, 09:53 PM
Better than Jordans Bulls :D

Gander13SM
06-19-2015, 02:26 AM
You recall incorrectly as I picked them every round of this postseason and who wouldn't given the competition they were given. Asterisk all the way through.

I disagree. You can only play who the other teams put out. It's sports. Things happen.

Besides, Pelicans, Memphis and Houston injured are a lot tougher than the teams the Cavs had to face on their road to the finals. Dubs still had to overcome Davis, Gasol, ZBO, D12, Harden etc.

If you're putting an asterisks next to the Dubs title you need to put one against any Eastern conference champion from the last 15 years. They had it easier than the Warriors.

On top of that nobody has an asterisk against the 1990 Bulls championship when Worthy and Scott were out. Nobody has an asterisk against the 2008 Celtics when Bynum and Ariza were out. Nobody has an asterisk against the Pistons when Malone was playing on one leg and the Lakers were without Magic.

So why start now?

Were they fortunate? Yes. Did they beat every team that was put in front of them? Yes. Did they steam roll everyone in the regular season? Yes. Did they have one of the most successful seasons of all time? Yes.

Winnings winning. Whether its by an inch or a mile. This championship has as much merit as any other of the last 20 years. To say otherwise just feels like jealousy. Sorry.

Chronz
06-19-2015, 02:29 AM
Think of 1983 Sixers who dominated and the next year lost in round 1.

Whos suppose to get fat and happy on this years team? Those Sixers declined because they won with their best players entering their decline stage, these Dubs are all in their prime save for the Finals MVP.

Gander13SM
06-19-2015, 02:32 AM
Whos suppose to get fat and happy on this years team? Those Sixers declined because they won with their best players entering their decline stage, these Dubs are all in their prime save for the Finals MVP.

Possibly Draymond. He looks like he should be a black Eric Cartman.

If anyone was going to get fat it would be him.

Dude is a beast though.

WaDe03
06-19-2015, 03:36 PM
2012 and 2013 Heat would've smacked the Warriors if they would've played them in the finals this year. Not really a debate in my opinion. If the Warriors would've swept the Cavs like they should have then you could argue but playing the way they did in the first 4 games the Heat probably would've swept them, definitely would've been up 3-0.