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View Full Version : Nuggets want the 6th pick for Lawson



Stunner
06-17-2015, 08:30 PM
@MySportsLegion: The Nuggets reportedly want to trade Ty Lawson to Kings for the 6th overall pick. (via ESPN)

2-ONE-5
06-17-2015, 08:33 PM
laughable

kingsdelez24
06-17-2015, 08:38 PM
The Kings want Willie Trill with that pick and have the poor mans Lawson in Collison. If anything, Collison is a better defender

Hawkeye15
06-17-2015, 08:39 PM
that high of a pick for a midget who relies on burst, and who has peaked as a solid starting PG?

Never happening.

GiantsSwaGG
06-17-2015, 08:43 PM
that high of a pick for a midget who relies on burst, and who has peaked as a solid starting PG?

Never happening.

Lawson is nowhere near worth the pick, swap yes. Yall sleeping in Lawson

jerellh528
06-17-2015, 08:47 PM
I like Lawson, he's a very serviceable pg in this league. But no way close to 6 pick value.

IndyRealist
06-17-2015, 08:48 PM
They must know something to ask so much. Karl probably wants his PG back badly. If Denver could get 6 and keep 7, this could be a pretty quick turnaround.

Mave1002
06-17-2015, 09:18 PM
And I want the 15th pick for Jordan Hill and Nick Young.

Raps08-09 Champ
06-17-2015, 09:36 PM
I'd consider it.

Celticsfan2007
06-17-2015, 09:47 PM
Not a chance in hell I do this if I'm the Kings.

lamzoka
06-17-2015, 09:50 PM
Knicks want the 6 pick for Calderon too, but guess what? it's not happening.

TheNumber37
06-17-2015, 11:06 PM
No chance. The Kings can draft a player at 6 that might be a better Pro than Lawson in a couple years

BallIsAll
06-17-2015, 11:10 PM
Knicks want the 6 pick for Calderon too, but guess what? it's not happening.

Did you just compare Lawson to Calderon? Lmao wtf

mgjohnson7851
06-18-2015, 12:06 AM
He averaged 15 points and 9.6 assists per gam last year. You all are not giving much benefit to a player that damn near averaged a double double on a terrible team.

Add in the fact that year after year the Kings draft a turd, and you realize that they would be stupid to not consider it.

flea
06-18-2015, 12:18 AM
He averaged 15 points and 9.6 assists per gam last year. You all are not giving much benefit to a player that damn near averaged a double double on a terrible team.

Add in the fact that year after year the Kings draft a turd, and you realize that they would be stupid to not consider it.

Undersized PG that can't shoot or defend, is a mediocre finisher, has 1 (maybe 2) seasons left of his athletic prime, and put up volume assists on a team that was 4th in pace last year. He's a solid average NBA PG but is he worth giving up someone like Stanley Johnson, Willy Cauley-Stein, or Justise Winslow just to go from Darren Collison to Ty Lawson? No way, not for a team starved for any sort of defense.

That said, it's the Kings so probably they do something as dumb as that.

xxplayerxx23
06-18-2015, 12:26 AM
Lawson is pretty good.

Bruno
06-18-2015, 12:28 AM
if Sacramento is considering this they might as well ask Toronto what else they'll add to Lowry package.

BallIsAll
06-18-2015, 12:47 AM
Since when can't Lawson shoot? They want to run and he's the perfect point guard for it. He's an efficient scorer and shoots respectable from 3 point range he has been one of the most consistent players in the NBA these last few seasons. He's an above average finisher around the rim and knows how to get his teammates involved. The Kings need established players, they are arguably the worst drafting team in the NBA according to their recent draft history. You guys are naming these prospects as if they did something in the NBA. Derrick Williams, Thomas Robinson, Jimmer Freddet, Ben Mclemore, Nick Stauskas, Johnny Flynn, Ricky Rubio are any of these guys better than Lawson? Hell no! And if you think they are you need a reality check!

BallIsAll
06-18-2015, 12:54 AM
And whoever said he only has 1 or 2 years left is dumb. He is just entering his prime he's only 27 know your facts before you comment with your idiocy.

flea
06-18-2015, 01:10 AM
And whoever said he only has 1 or 2 years left is dumb. He is just entering his prime he's only 27 know your facts before you comment with your idiocy.

He'll be 28 early next season, and that's pretty much the end of your athletic prime (28 or 29) not the beginning. Put up decent shooting numbers on Karl's stacked teams that did nothing but run but I saw him in college and the last few years - he's not a good shooter unless you think Russell Westbrook is a good shooter. Maybe he's a better finisher than I gave him credit for, but he's declined in that regard since those good teams too.

Just don't see a difference-maker, or anything better than the 12th-17th best PG in the game. I'm not even convinced he's better than Jeff Teague, who is another guy that relies on speed for most of his effectiveness.

GREATNESS ONE
06-18-2015, 01:20 AM
Keep the pick!

Clippersfan86
06-18-2015, 01:22 AM
Wow people are disrespecting Lawson. He had a stretch this year where many people were talking about him among the best PG's in the league (behind CP3/WB/Curry). He's a borderline all star player. This draft is being severely overrated if people think the 6 pick is going to land an all star or something (very doubtful). I'd consider this for sure if I was the Kings. Lawson+Cousins would be a nice duo.

GREATNESS ONE
06-18-2015, 01:23 AM
So would Cousins and WCS.

Clippersfan86
06-18-2015, 01:28 AM
Wonder if he will put up 15/10 too? Lawson took a leap as a playmaker this year (where he was already very underrated) and he's a reliable 2nd or 3rd scoring option. Defensively he's not great, but PG defense isn't as important. Kings have been in the lottery for like 10 years now? It's time to acquire seasoned guys and stop gambling on draft picks. Cousins was good but they failed bad with McLemore.

GREATNESS ONE
06-18-2015, 01:31 AM
Cool story. I still wouldn't trade the pick for Lawson.

& who knows, they might even trade Demarcus.

Raps08-09 Champ
06-18-2015, 01:40 AM
if Sacramento is considering this they might as well ask Toronto what else they'll add to Lowry package.

Karl may want Lawson specifically.

rJeezy
06-18-2015, 02:05 AM
Cool story. I still wouldn't trade the pick for Lawson.

& who knows, they might even trade Demarcus.

Cousins for Lakers #2

Gander13SM
06-18-2015, 02:37 AM
Lawson is being so underrated here. Now that Conley is getting his props Ty is easily the most underrated PG in this league.

He would be a huge upgrade for Sacramento. And the Kings are historically awful at drafting. This is the right move for them in my opinion.

naps
06-18-2015, 04:09 AM
No way you do that. Lawson has peaked and is due 2 more years at something like 12 mill a year, IIRC. He is not a difference make at all and this league is full of serviceable PGs. Deepest position in the league easily. By contrast, you get the much younger pick with higher potential who will be locked up for 4/5 years at such a cheap price. And it's not like Lawson would make the kings a contender by any means. They are still rebuilding and the pick is the way to go. No-brainer here.

GiantsSwaGG
06-18-2015, 05:39 AM
He'll be 28 early next season, and that's pretty much the end of your athletic prime (28 or 29) not the beginning. Put up decent shooting numbers on Karl's stacked teams that did nothing but run but I saw him in college and the last few years - he's not a good shooter unless you think Russell Westbrook is a good shooter. Maybe he's a better finisher than I gave him credit for, but he's declined in that regard since those good teams too.

Just don't see a difference-maker, or anything better than the 12th-17th best PG in the game. I'm not even convinced he's better than Jeff Teague, who is another guy that relies on speed for most of his effectiveness.

He's not a difference maker or worth the 6th pick by itself but he's just what the Kings need, he average 15 & 9 with no help, season before he average 17 & 9. He's a borderline all star, let's not underrate the guy

MonroeFAN
06-18-2015, 07:28 AM
And whoever said he only has 1 or 2 years left is dumb. He is just entering his prime he's only 27 know your facts before you comment with your idiocy.

He'll be 28 early next season, and that's pretty much the end of your athletic prime (28 or 29) not the beginning. Put up decent shooting numbers on Karl's stacked teams that did nothing but run but I saw him in college and the last few years - he's not a good shooter unless you think Russell Westbrook is a good shooter. Maybe he's a better finisher than I gave him credit for, but he's declined in that regard since those good teams too.

Just don't see a difference-maker, or anything better than the 12th-17th best PG in the game. I'm not even convinced he's better than Jeff Teague, who is another guy that relies on speed for most of his effectiveness.

Not saying I disagree, but didn't he he have a season of 50/40/85+ % ?

I would say that's better than decent. Granted he wasn't playing heavy minutes and you're right, it was under Karl. But it's hard to completely ignore a 39% career 3.

Either way he seems like a major punk.

Stunner
06-18-2015, 10:10 AM
If the Kings got that Nuggets center with Ty they should def do it

Zackthesack
06-18-2015, 10:47 AM
Nurkic isnt going anywhere.

tredigs
06-18-2015, 11:15 AM
Contract wise is where it hurts more than anything due to not having to pay a draft pick much, but assuming they could also add a piece to somewhat match salaries, Ty Lawson is absolutely better than an average #6 draft value. Draft choices after #5 that are of higher quality than Lawson are few and far between. Picks are overrated by many. Most are busts or close to it.

GREATNESS ONE
06-18-2015, 11:21 AM
Cousins and WCS would be a great duo.

IBleedPurple
06-18-2015, 11:22 AM
If the Kings got that Nuggets center with Ty they should def do itLmao. Nurkic is their least likely to be traded player and would be an awful trade for Denver.

Lawson is being quite underrated here. Is he worth 6? Maybe not, but he'd be worth a few picks later. He would likely be better than who the Kings will take, and still has miles left. Why do the Nuggets want 6 for him? Because Karl has a man crush on Lawson from Denver, and Karl also is obsessed with North Carolina players.

MonroeFAN
06-18-2015, 11:25 AM
Is there a reason (a valid one) as to why people are so high on Nurkich or w/e?

He was supposed to take the world by storm when Mozgov got traded and IIRC he didn't do shat.

tp13baby
06-18-2015, 11:36 AM
Is there a reason (a valid one) as to why people are so high on Nurkich or w/e?

He was supposed to take the world by storm when Mozgov got traded and IIRC he didn't do shat.

He played well until he got injured. He is 20. Remember that.

He is a great defender. Strong, athletic. With Nurkic on the floor Denver has a 95.7 defensive rating compared to 106.7 with him off last year. Teams shoot 6 percent less with him on the floor last year.

Offensively he is average right now but has shown he can be a dominate post player. Give him a coach that will make him the focal point, and he stays out of foul trouble, he is an all star in a few years.

IBleedPurple
06-18-2015, 11:40 AM
Is there a reason (a valid one) as to why people are so high on Nurkich or w/e?

He was supposed to take the world by storm when Mozgov got traded and IIRC he didn't do shat.He had some great flashes. Wasn't supposed to take the world by storm, he is/was a Euro project. A lot of upside, but he was limited and later injured. Still avg 8/8/1.4 blk.

mgjohnson7851
06-18-2015, 11:42 AM
Is there a reason (a valid one) as to why people are so high on Nurkich or w/e?

He was supposed to take the world by storm when Mozgov got traded and IIRC he didn't do shat.
He was very good for the Nuggets last year, and at least met expectations for himself. His main problem is that he fouls people a lot, but that is something he can work on.

The only 2 untouchable players on the Nuggets roster are Nurkic and Gallo.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
06-18-2015, 11:42 AM
Karl is known to be a meddler. Look he wanted Gary Payton yet though he was washed up and he talked Bucks owner and GM to having Ray Allen traded for the washed up Glove. So isn't to far fetched. I bet if Kings pass on WCS and trade the pick Denver has to eat Landry and/or Thompson.

Jamiecballer
06-18-2015, 11:43 AM
call me crazy but if i'm the kings i think that would be a good move for them. good fundamental unselfish player with solid character. exactly what the kings need. but i wouldn't expect them to see that, or they wouldn't be the kings in the first place.

mike_noodles
06-18-2015, 12:11 PM
If I'm the Kings I would do my due diligence and look for the best impact player I can get for that pick and if that's the best offer, I do that and run. The chances of that pick even being as good as Lawson are slim at best. And the Kings need help now. Cousins isn't waiting forever.

Clippersfan86
06-18-2015, 12:13 PM
If I'm the Kings I would do my due diligence and look for the best impact player I can get for that pick and if that's the best offer, I do that and run. The chances of that pick even being as good as Lawson are slim at best. And the Kings need help now. Cousins isn't waiting forever.

Exactly. Plus not like Kings are OKC/Spurs of the draft. They blow their picks consistently in recent years. Lawson is so ****ing underrated it's not even funny. He's on the same tier as Mike Conley IMO as a borderline all star caliber PG.

Ty_Lawson
06-18-2015, 12:22 PM
The Kings and Nuggets are discussing a deal involving DeMarcus Cousins for Ty Lawson & Kenneth Faried. (Via Joe Kotoch - Sheridan Hoops)

Clippersfan86
06-18-2015, 12:24 PM
Oh damn.

mike_noodles
06-18-2015, 12:25 PM
The Kings and Nuggets are discussing a deal involving DeMarcus Cousins for Ty Lawson & Kenneth Faried. (Via Joe Kotoch - Sheridan Hoops)

Damn. Good deal for Nuggets.

76erEaglePhils
06-18-2015, 01:57 PM
I would laugh the Nuggets off the phone plus the money owed to Lawson is not very favorable the Nuggets must be joking thinking Your going to get a 6th round pick for Lawson.

mgjohnson7851
06-18-2015, 02:05 PM
I love how the average fan thinks so highly of a draft pick like that pick is guaranteed to result in a superstar.

RLundi
06-18-2015, 02:12 PM
Karl is known to be a meddler. Look he wanted Gary Payton yet though he was washed up and he talked Bucks owner and GM to having Ray Allen traded for the washed up Glove. So isn't to far fetched. I bet if Kings pass on WCS and trade the pick Denver has to eat Landry and/or Thompson.

EDIT: wrong thread.

Wrigheyes4MVP
06-18-2015, 02:39 PM
I love how the average fan thinks so highly of a draft pick like that pick is guaranteed to result in a superstar.

I do agree with that, especially the 6th pick. Lawson for that pick is probably a fair deal. But the Kings do need another big and have Collison, so I'm not sure this move makes sense for them other than it reuniting Karl with his PG.

Wrigheyes4MVP
06-18-2015, 02:42 PM
Please don't trade Cousins

Jamiecballer
06-18-2015, 04:42 PM
He's not a difference maker or worth the 6th pick by itself but he's just what the Kings need, he average 15 & 9 with no help, season before he average 17 & 9. He's a borderline all star, let's not underrate the guy

He's not a difference maker, hes a borderline all-star and to top it off he's just what they need. Wtf lol

GiantsSwaGG
06-18-2015, 05:44 PM
He's not a difference maker, hes a borderline all-star and to top it off he's just what they need. Wtf lol

I love Lawson but he's not worth the 6th pick by itself, unless you're swapping picks it's a stupid trade

Stunner
06-18-2015, 06:10 PM
@NBANewsStation: UPDATE: The Kings have DECLINED the Nuggets offer of the Ty Lawson for the 6th pick.

mgjohnson7851
06-18-2015, 06:45 PM
@NBANewsStation: UPDATE: The Kings have DECLINED the Nuggets offer of the Ty Lawson for the 6th pick.
Probably why they're discussing ty plus Faried for Cousins.

JLynn943
06-18-2015, 07:05 PM
Probably why they're discussing ty plus Faried for Cousins.

That would make even less sense though. Hope we don't do anything with the pick or cousins with the nuggets.

mgjohnson7851
06-18-2015, 07:10 PM
That would make even less sense though. Hope we don't do anything with the pick or cousins with the nuggets.
Umm no it wouldn't. Cousins is a terrible fit for Karl's strategy. Karl also gets some players that are familiar with his system, and they'd still have the 6 pick to draft another player that fits his system. It makes much much more sense than just ty for the 6.

JEDean89
06-18-2015, 08:20 PM
Karl won 50+ with Nene and Kosta Koufos as his C, Cousins is way better than either of them, of course he works in his style. Cousins is a freak athlete for his size, and has skill to match. You don't just trade the best pure C in the league right before his prime for a couple of middling starters. I'm a nuggets fan, I just don't see this. You would need to throw in Wilson Chandler and the 7th pick, and thats for 3 years of Boogie.

This is why I think the Lawson trade for the 6th makes sense. Nuggs could throw in the Grizz and Blazers protected 1sts, and the Kings would get the guys they need to maybe keep Boogie around. Kings don't need a superstar, they need a guy who can run their offense and Lawson is great at that. He was the starting PG of a team that ranked high in both offensive and defensive efficiency and won 57 home games. Ty is a better player than he was that year. Throw in either Wilson Chandler or Will Barton, maybe Lauvergne or Green and make it so that the Kings have a nice playoff caliber team with another move. Like I said, Kings can always rebuild if they lose Cousins, but when you have a guy like that and a guy like Rudy Gay in their prime, you want to stack your team with vets, not get younger. Ty will bring a winning mindset, whether the media believes it or not, the guy won a college chip and made the playoffs multiple times, including leading his team to the 3rd best seed in the west, without an allstar on the team.

I would also do Ty and Faried for Collison, Stauskas, the 6th pick and a future 1st. Kings would be GK's fantasy team at that point.

LA_Raiders
06-18-2015, 08:47 PM
Lol, maybe for Lakers 27th

tredigs
06-18-2015, 09:09 PM
Here's some #6 picks over the last 20 years:

Jan Vessely
Epke Udoh
Jonny Flynn
Yi Jianlin
Bryan Reeves
Robert Traylor
Ron Mercer
Demarr Johnson
Dujuan Wagner
Chris Kaman
Martell Webster
Sharone Wright
Josh Childress

So, there's your majority of the #6 picks of the last 2 decades. IE on average, you're getting a nobody. The best #6 in that time was probably Brandon Roy, who essentially had a 3 year NBA career.

I'll take my chances on a PG who is in his prime and averaging 15/10 rather than a lotto pick that most likely will never pan out, myself.

5ass
06-18-2015, 09:30 PM
Here's some #6 picks over the last 20 years:

Jan Vessely
Epke Udoh
Jonny Flynn
Yi Jianlin
Bryan Reeves
Robert Traylor
Ron Mercer
Demarr Johnson
Dujuan Wagner
Chris Kaman
Martell Webster
Sharone Wright
Josh Childress

So, there's your majority of the #6 picks of the last 2 decades. IE on average, you're getting a nobody. The best #6 in that time was probably Brandon Roy, who essentially had a 3 year NBA career.

I'll take my chances on a PG who is in his prime and averaging 15/10 rather than a lotto pick that most likely will never pan out, myself.

Doesn't work that way. I can give you a much better list for players picked at 7 in the last 20 years, does that mean the 7th pick is more valuable than the 6th?

MTar786
06-18-2015, 09:52 PM
i think the best lawson will get you is like an 8th-10th pick. 8 if youre lucky. 10 would be fair

Raps08-09 Champ
06-18-2015, 09:56 PM
Doesn't work that way. I can give you a much better list for players picked at 7 in the last 20 years, does that mean the 7th pick is more valuable than the 6th?

9th pick even better. That's easily more valuable than the 6th man.

Dirk, McGrady, Marion, Amar'e, Iguodala, Drummond, Demar, Hayward, Walker.

http://www.mynbadraft.com/nba-draft-picks/9th-overall/90509/

tredigs
06-18-2015, 10:14 PM
Doesn't work that way. I can give you a much better list for players picked at 7 in the last 20 years, does that mean the 7th pick is more valuable than the 6th?

No, it means that it's a crap shoot. The pick in question is the 6th, hence me using the history of the 6th pick.

The last three #5 picks as another example: Thomas Robinson, Alex Len and Dante Exum.

Long story short, there are very, very few sure things in an NBA draft in the 5+ range. And most are busts. We know Ty Lawson is not that, and he is still young + can improve his game. It is much more likely that Ty Lawson is a better player than the #6 pick will ever achieve than the opposite scenario, is my point.

tredigs
06-18-2015, 10:22 PM
9th pick even better. That's easily more valuable than the 6th man.

Dirk, McGrady, Marion, Amar'e, Iguodala, Drummond, Demar, Hayward, Walker.

http://www.mynbadraft.com/nba-draft-picks/9th-overall/90509/

Also in the last 20 years... Rodney Rogers, Eric Montross, Ed Obannon, Samaki Walker, Joel Pryzbilla, Rodney White, Ike Diogu, Patrick O'Bryant, Burke. Still a crap shoot, and Ty is right there with Demar, Hayward and Walker.

Some of the #8 picks in the last 10 years? Chris Wilcox, TJ Ford, Rafael Areujo, Brandan Wright, Joe Alexandar, Kaldwell-Pope, Ross, etc. Just much more likely that Ty Lawson will be better than the draft pick in this range.

flea
06-18-2015, 10:24 PM
Nothing is sure in the draft, but the point is whether the difference between Darren Collison and Ty Lawson is worth giving up a shot at someone like Paul George or Kawhi Leonard or Joakim Noah (each of which could become analogues for Stanley Johnson, Justise Winslow, or Cauley-Stein).

I don't think so - Lawson is a better fast-paced PG probably but Collison is definitely the better shooter and they are both crap defenders. And with an unathletic C like Cousins why would you even want to run - even if Karl is the coach. Let the Kings do it, I bet they live to regret it unless they entirely remake their team.

bleedprple&gold
06-18-2015, 10:28 PM
Also in the last 20 years... Rodney Rogers, Eric Montross, Ed Obannon, Samaki Walker, Joel Pryzbilla, Rodney White, Ike Diogu, Patrick O'Bryant, Burke. Still a crap shoot, and Ty is right there with Demar, Hayward and Walker.

Some of the #8 picks in the last 10 years? Chris Wilcox, TJ Ford, Rafael Areujo, Brandan Wright, Joe Alexandar, Kaldwell-Pope, Ross, etc. Just much more likely that Ty Lawson will be better than the draft pick in this range.

Yea but there's more to the comparison than just will X player picked 6th be better than Lawson? You're also getting a guy that's probably 7-8 years younger and on a dirt cheap contract for at least 4 years, and you can use some of the money saved to add more pieces.

tredigs
06-18-2015, 10:50 PM
^^Those points I agree with. It's not black and white. I'm speaking to those simply talking about expected return on their value with a #6 pick. By and large picks potential talent level are insanely overrated on this board imo. Especially in the 1 and done era where we know next to nothing about these guys. We have 25-30 real games of theirs to watch, with the majority of those against absolute **** competition.

IBleedPurple
06-18-2015, 11:55 PM
Nothing is sure in the draft, but the point is whether the difference between Darren Collison and Ty Lawson is worth giving up a shot at someone like Paul George or Kawhi Leonard or Joakim Noah (each of which could become analogues for Stanley Johnson, Justise Winslow, or Cauley-Stein).

I don't think so - Lawson is a better fast-paced PG probably but Collison is definitely the better shooter and they are both crap defenders. And with an unathletic C like Cousins why would you even want to run - even if Karl is the coach. Let the Kings do it, I bet they live to regret it unless they entirely remake their team.Depends on the Cousins rumors. If GK wants to fly up and down the court after moving Cousins, Lawson is a much better fit. Agree...in a traditional offense, not as much, but I'd still prefer Lawson.

Scoots
06-19-2015, 12:20 PM
^^Those points I agree with. It's not black and white. I'm speaking to those simply talking about expected return on their value with a #6 pick. By and large picks potential talent level are insanely overrated on this board imo. Especially in the 1 and done era where we know next to nothing about these guys. We have 25-30 real games of theirs to watch, with the majority of those against absolute **** competition.

Too right.

But potential is so intoxicating it trumps all logic. How many "next Michael Jordans" were drafted before the media realized they should stop saying that because it was just making them look dumb? Now we have a "NBA player comparison" for every draft pick.

The Warriors highest drafted players are Steph Curry and Harrison Barnes both at #7. With 1 and done college careers being commonplace how do you determine the 2 most important aspects of a player, drive and intelligence? In the case of Steph it was evident but he wasn't 1 and done. Barnes has motivational issues and the only reason he's still in the NBA is because of flashes of all the talent he has ... that could almost be the definition of what the average high first round NBA pick ends up being ... shows flashes of greatness surrounded by mistakes, lazyness, attitude, etc.

Lawson is a known. He's a great athlete, he can play the position at a very high level, and he's smart and driven. That is very hard to find in the draft.

Wrigheyes4MVP
06-19-2015, 12:42 PM
It would be a huge mistake for Sacto to trade Cousins, but I'd gladly do the #6 pick for Lawson. As others have mentioned, that #6 pick is no gaurantee to be even a solid starter. The Kings took Stauskis las year at #7 overall. If he better than Lawson? No he is not.

Someone in this draft who gets taken in the 5-10 range will be better than Lawson, maybe even 2 guys. But, their is a less than marginal chance the Kings pick said player. I'd take the risk out of it and make that trade for Lawson.

PG - Lawson/Collison
SG - Mclemore/Stauskis
SF - Gay
PF - Thompson/Landry (need to upgrade here)
C - Cousins

That is a decent lineup. IDK if they make the playoffs, but they have a better chance with this lineup than what they have now. Lawson fits the system.

Wrigheyes4MVP
06-19-2015, 12:46 PM
Nothing is sure in the draft, but the point is whether the difference between Darren Collison and Ty Lawson is worth giving up a shot at someone like Paul George or Kawhi Leonard or Joakim Noah (each of which could become analogues for Stanley Johnson, Justise Winslow, or Cauley-Stein).

I don't think so - Lawson is a better fast-paced PG probably but Collison is definitely the better shooter and they are both crap defenders. And with an unathletic C like Cousins why would you even want to run - even if Karl is the coach. Let the Kings do it, I bet they live to regret it unless they entirely remake their team.

Why can't they keep both Lawson and Collison. Collison could still play big minutes off the bench and he too fits the running style Karl likes to use. And you can still run with Cousins. Let Lawson and Collison run and then when they get in half court set, run the offense through the big man. Don't see why you can't do both.

flea
06-19-2015, 04:32 PM
Why can't they keep both Lawson and Collison. Collison could still play big minutes off the bench and he too fits the running style Karl likes to use. And you can still run with Cousins. Let Lawson and Collison run and then when they get in half court set, run the offense through the big man. Don't see why you can't do both.

They can do that but that's letting a lot of talent sit on the bench for a team that needs all the talent it can get, and it's taking away your best finisher in transition since nobody realistically thinks Boogie Cousins can or will run like prime Stat.

Even when Collison was backing up the best defensive PG in the league he could hardly get on the court with him because of how bad such units are defensively. Don't see any way Lawson and Collison can play together with how bad they are on that end, so I would imagine the Kings try to trade him if they land Lawson.

Wrigheyes4MVP
06-19-2015, 05:14 PM
I think I would just prefer to take WCS if he is available. We need a PF who can play D more than anything else. If he is off the board, I would be open to a Lawson type trade personally.

slashsnake
06-19-2015, 05:35 PM
He averaged 15 points and 9.6 assists per gam last year. You all are not giving much benefit to a player that damn near averaged a double double on a terrible team.

Add in the fact that year after year the Kings draft a turd, and you realize that they would be stupid to not consider it.


But he did that in a very fast paced offense, has never really stood out as a leader (skipping practices, and others seemed to lead more with them in the past), has had off the court issues (Dui and domestic violence), really has struggled with his shot the past couple years... His career is basically mirroring Nick Van Exel's in Denver (though not as good of a scorer).

Not a turd, he's one of the fastest guards around, but watching him since his rookie year, it is still the same issues I have with him. Great in transition and pushing the pace, but struggles running the half court offense at times... Seems like he's always about to take that next step but doesn't have the aggressiveness all the time and kind of fades for long periods. Really streaky shooter.

To me that's a hard sell that he will make your team much better. Sure, 6th pick.. you could be drafting a bust and won't be better either. But that pick could also have gotten a team Lilliard or Curry. I don't see the potential upside in Lawson as much as I did a few years ago.

And financially 2 more years at over 12 mil a year. You aren't getting him on a good bargain deal right now. He's making more than Steph Curry and is top 10 in PG pay. At best, he's worth his deal.

But the fun thing about a trade is it only takes one person to see him differently.

5ass
06-19-2015, 05:39 PM
I think I would just prefer to take WCS if he is available. We need a PF who can play D more than anything else. If he is off the board, I would be open to a Lawson type trade personally.

In that case I would still take Mudiay over Lawson.

5ass
06-19-2015, 05:59 PM
No, it means that it's a crap shoot. The pick in question is the 6th, hence me using the history of the 6th pick.

The last three #5 picks as another example: Thomas Robinson, Alex Len and Dante Exum.

Long story short, there are very, very few sure things in an NBA draft in the 5+ range. And most are busts. We know Ty Lawson is not that, and he is still young + can improve his game. It is much more likely that Ty Lawson is a better player than the #6 pick will ever achieve than the opposite scenario, is my point.

What I'm saying is the 6th pick draft history is not very relevant. Way too many factors here to simplify it like that.

At the end of the day Lawson is just an average PG in the most talented position in the league. Its not hard to get an average PG in the NBA without wasting the 6th pick. You can take your chances in FA or later in the draft. Take a look around the league. Most teams are set at the PG position.

Besides, by your logic basically any average player is worth a 6th pick, and that's just not true. Why couldn't Afflalo land the Magic or Nuggets a 6th pick when they traded him?

kobe4thewinbang
06-19-2015, 08:14 PM
I could see Lakers trading the #2 pick for Lawson and Cousins, lol.

tredigs
06-19-2015, 10:58 PM
What I'm saying is the 6th pick draft history is not very relevant. Way too many factors here to simplify it like that.

At the end of the day Lawson is just an average PG in the most talented position in the league. Its not hard to get an average PG in the NBA without wasting the 6th pick. You can take your chances in FA or later in the draft. Take a look around the league. Most teams are set at the PG position.

Besides, by your logic basically any average player is worth a 6th pick, and that's just not true. Why couldn't Afflalo land the Magic or Nuggets a 6th pick when they traded him?

You're completely underrating Ty Lawson, this is not an "average player". There are ~450 players in the league, and I'd rank him ahead of no less than 400 of them. How many free agents last season were signed by another team that are better players than Ty Lawson? Without thinking much on it, I'm going to say less than 5. Certainly not more than 7. He's a very good player that could be an integral piece on a championship caliber team with the right fit. A #4-8 pick... who the **** knows? And again, this is the 1 and done era. 90% of these players need 3+ years to develop into marquee talents IF that is in their DNA, and by that time they're already looking at a free agency situation where they may very possibly leave the team regardless. This isn't 1960-2000 where you can get multiple solid/fairly known commodities out of the gate.

5ass
06-19-2015, 11:49 PM
You're completely underrating Ty Lawson, this is not an "average player". There are ~450 players in the league, and I'd rank him ahead of no less than 400 of them. How many free agents last season were signed by another team that are better players than Ty Lawson? Without thinking much on it, I'm going to say less than 5. Certainly not more than 7. He's a very good player that could be an integral piece on a championship caliber team with the right fit. A #4-8 pick... who the **** knows? And again, this is the 1 and done era. 90% of these players need 3+ years to develop into marquee talents IF that is in their DNA, and by that time they're already looking at a free agency situation where they may very possibly leave the team regardless. This isn't 1960-2000 where you can get multiple solid/fairly known commodities out of the gate.

Fine, average player isn't the right word. Average starter would be better. He's top 15ish in terms of starting point guards with the next 15 not being too far behind. Again, PGs are not as high in demand as other positions. I would say both Afflalo and JJ redick are and were at least average SGs when they were traded. How come they couldn't get the Magic a top 6 pick.

I'm really trying to find a recent instance when an average PG got traded for a top 10 pick. Only one I can think of right now is Holiday who was traded for the 7th and a future first that was projected to be in the early 20's. Jrue was a 22 year old all star at the time.

5ass
06-19-2015, 11:50 PM
I guess we shall agree to disagree. The kings turned down the offer though, and IMO it was a good move.

tredigs
06-20-2015, 12:12 AM
Yeah, I mean I'm not entirely surprised they turned it down (it could be for a myriad of reasons... 95% of trades are turned down), but I just think we're short-selling Lawson here. He was top 5 in assist% the past couple years, and can be an absolutely explosive scorer at times. In the right fit, I think he kills. He's a highly, highly talented player. The fact that he's an average PG doesn't equate him to Afflalo to me. As you said, PG is the deepest position, but it doesn't take away from him being a more impactful player than an average guy from a less deep position. That makes little sense to me. A player of his caliber is very tough and rare to come by via trade, regardless of positional strength. And for the reasons I mentioned, a #6 pick doesn't particularly impress me (crap shoot, may very well leave by the time they finally develop if they ever do, etc).

So I get your position, but yeah, agree to disagree.

ThePlayoffs
06-20-2015, 12:20 AM
Could anyone see this as being any sort of possibility?

Celtics get 4th pick 28th pick second rounders
Nuggets get Isaiah Thomas olynk and 16th
Knicks get Lawson smart 7th

Although I'd hate to see Thomas and Olynk go from the Celtics I think this is a good all around trade.

IBleedPurple
06-20-2015, 12:34 AM
Could anyone see this as being any sort of possibility?

Celtics get 4th pick 28th pick second rounders
Nuggets get Isaiah Thomas olynk and 16th
Knicks get Lawson smart 7th

Although I'd hate to see Thomas and Olynk go from the Celtics I think this is a good all around trade.Nuggets' butts would hurt from that rape

IBleedPurple
06-20-2015, 12:38 AM
You're completely underrating Ty Lawson, this is not an "average player". There are ~450 players in the league, and I'd rank him ahead of no less than 400 of them. How many free agents last season were signed by another team that are better players than Ty Lawson? Without thinking much on it, I'm going to say less than 5. Certainly not more than 7. He's a very good player that could be an integral piece on a championship caliber team with the right fit. A #4-8 pick... who the **** knows? And again, this is the 1 and done era. 90% of these players need 3+ years to develop into marquee talents IF that is in their DNA, and by that time they're already looking at a free agency situation where they may very possibly leave the team regardless. This isn't 1960-2000 where you can get multiple solid/fairly known commodities out of the gate.

Fine, average player isn't the right word. Average starter would be better. He's top 15ish in terms of starting point guards with the next 15 not being too far behind. Again, PGs are not as high in demand as other positions. I would say both Afflalo and JJ redick are and were at least average SGs when they were traded. How come they couldn't get the Magic a top 6 pick.

I'm really trying to find a recent instance when an average PG got traded for a top 10 pick. Only one I can think of right now is Holiday who was traded for the 7th and a future first that was projected to be in the early 20's. Jrue was a 22 year old all star at the time.Not average. Not elite, superstar, etc...but not average. Seems to be used far too often by you.

5ass
06-20-2015, 12:40 AM
Could anyone see this as being any sort of possibility?

Celtics get 4th pick 28th pick second rounders
Nuggets get Isaiah Thomas olynk and 16th
Knicks get Lawson smart 7th

Although I'd hate to see Thomas and Olynk go from the Celtics I think this is a good all around trade.

Wow Celtics don't do that IMO. Dont think you need to involve smart. Knicks are getting too much return for dropping 3 spots.


Tredigs here are four examples of around Lawson-level PGs being traded this season. Isaiah Thomas, Brandon Knight, Brandon Jennings, Reggie Jackson. That's why I think you don't give up a 6th pick for Lawson. They're just more available.

5ass
06-20-2015, 12:43 AM
Not average. Not elite, superstar, etc...but not average. Seems to be used far too often by you.

His problem is he's easily one of the worst starting PGs in the league on defense.

tredigs
06-20-2015, 12:47 AM
Well, gimme Lawson over all 4 of them 5ss. 16 and 8 with a PER of 19 over the last 4 years on average. Average playoff PER of 21.5 with a 56% TS the last 3 years. He's a stud. Probably a multiple All Star if he's an East guy. #5-8 picks in this era just don't do it for me.

tredigs
06-20-2015, 12:52 AM
His problem is he's easily one of the worst starting PGs in the league on defense.
Is he though? I feel like there's a lot of weak defensive PG's in the NBA. Might be 3 or 4 I'd call game changers on that end, and he sort of fits somewhere in the middle of the rest of the aggregate. Plus, that's the least important position defensively. Against 90% of squads you can hide a lesser defender at point against the weak or underutilized 2/3 if need be.

5ass
06-20-2015, 01:16 AM
Is he though? I feel like there's a lot of weak defensive PG's in the NBA. Might be 3 or 4 I'd call game changers on that end, and he sort of fits somewhere in the middle of the rest of the aggregate. Plus, that's the least important position defensively. Against 90% of squads you can hide a lesser defender at point against the weak or underutilized 2/3 if need be.

Yeah, I can only think of Calderon as a worse defensive point guard. Honestly I think he's terrible at that end.I don't know if that's least important position defensively anymore. These guys are becoming scoring oriented, and they. I agree you can have a specialist come in and lock down an opposing PG, but then the SG would take advantage of the Lawson match up.