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View Full Version : Cleveland is underrated as a team in playoffs



pelmen84
06-17-2015, 05:57 PM
Everybody keeps saying how after injuries to Love and Irving, Lebron was, basically, playing with a bunch of underperforming scrubs who would not even start on other NBA teams. Lebron gets all the credit for getting them so far in playoffs but everybody forgets to mention that the reason the Cavs got so far was their defense and rebounding, not superhuman single player performance.

During playoffs,
Cleveland was the 2nd best in guarding 2s, 3rd in guarding 3s. They were the best in rebounding differential, the best in offensive rebounds, they were third in total blocks.

So give it up to Cleveland as a team and their coaching staff on a great playoff performance.

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 05:59 PM
Lol just no. They stunk. Bron + 2 okay bigs.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-17-2015, 06:07 PM
Everybody keeps saying how after injuries to Love and Irving, Lebron was, basically, playing with a bunch of underperforming scrubs who would not even start on other NBA teams. Lebron gets all the credit for getting them so far in playoffs but everybody forgets to mention that the reason the Cavs got so far was their defense and rebounding, not superhuman single player performance.

During playoffs,
Cleveland was the 2nd best in guarding 2s, 3rd in guarding 3s. They were the best in rebounding differential, the best in offensive rebounds, they were third in total blocks.

So give it up to Cleveland as a team and their coaching staff on a great playoff performance.

Yup, we already knew the excuses were coming from Lebron apologist

pelmen84
06-17-2015, 06:23 PM
Lol, i am completely opposite of Lebron apologist. Anyways, i am saying Cleveland got to the finals mostly because of their defense, which entire team is responsible for, not one player. Against good defenses they sucked offensively, that is why the lost in the finals.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-17-2015, 06:27 PM
Lol, i am completely opposite of Lebron apologist. Anyways, i am saying Cleveland got to the finals mostly because of their defense, which entire team is responsible for, not one player. Against good defenses they sucked offensively, that is why the lost in the finals.

I wasn't talking about you bro.

pelmen84
06-17-2015, 06:45 PM
Oh, nvm then.

Chronz
06-17-2015, 11:50 PM
What makes you think they were under rated? Are we suppose to ignore HIS rebounding and lack of depth? A good team doesn't crumble as badly as the Cavs did in plays not involving Bron these finals

pelmen84
06-18-2015, 10:05 AM
They are underrated because nobody mentioned how good of a defense they played in the playoffs once Love and Irving went down by inserting Delle and Thompson in their lineup. Lebron obviously played a huge role in this but so did his team mates.
They played against the best defense in the league this season in the finals. It is not like Lebron was super efficient scoring wise while he was on the court against the GSW. He had the same percentages against the Spurs in 07, look it up, playing iso ball against great defense.

They obviously lacked depth due to injuries but players that did play, played well above their head. It is very impressive to get this far

ewing
06-18-2015, 10:09 AM
If his teammates do something good its b/c of Bron. If they do something bad its b/c they suck.

Nick O
06-18-2015, 10:29 AM
talent wise it was easily one of the worst teams to ever make the finals the worst team . talent wise GS was one of the best. cant believe he made a series out of it.

pelmen84
06-18-2015, 12:15 PM
http://www.businessinsider.com/cavaliers-defense-nba-finals-2015-6

An article i found stating the same thing i am writing here.

Scoots
06-18-2015, 12:56 PM
I was saying it all during the playoffs and the finals. These Cavs are offensively challenged, but they were a VERY good defensive team. Had Irving and Love been available the game would have been totally different, but LeBron and Cavs fans think the Cavs would have won in 4 ... fans still discount the importance of D.

Chronz
06-18-2015, 01:19 PM
They are underrated because nobody mentioned how good of a defense they played in the playoffs once Love and Irving went down by inserting Delle and Thompson in their lineup. Lebron obviously played a huge role in this but so did his team mates.
They played against the best defense in the league this season in the finals. It is not like Lebron was super efficient scoring wise while he was on the court against the GSW. He had the same percentages against the Spurs in 07, look it up, playing iso ball against great defense.

They obviously lacked depth due to injuries but players that did play, played well above their head. It is very impressive to get this far
Haha look it up? Your definition of efficiency is outdated if u believe that. Them obviously lacking depth and facing an even superior defense is why they were so pathetically outmatched. Them playing defense is the ONLY thing you could say about them, the problem was you could say all that and more about the competition. Again they were doing absolutely nothing unless Bron was involved.

Chronz
06-18-2015, 01:21 PM
I was saying it all during the playoffs and the finals. These Cavs are offensively challenged, but they were a VERY good defensive team. Had Irving and Love been available the game would have been totally different, but LeBron and Cavs fans think the Cavs would have won in 4 ... fans still discount the importance of D.
That's not discounting the importance of D, that's valuing the importance of depth and superior talent on a team deprived of It.

diu9leilomo
06-18-2015, 01:35 PM
Any team with lebron, will NOT be underrated.

Heatcheck
06-18-2015, 01:51 PM
they were forced to play D because their offense was non existent. the least dellevadova and Thompson could do is hustle. nobody could do anything productive with the ball. I think jones, smith, miller and some other "shooter" they had went something like 0-35 when LeBron wasn't on the floor.
besides, LeBron just being out there makes your team look better on D.
And yes, it would have been totally different, because Irving and love don't play the D dellevadova and Thompson play, so now they have to beat the warriors at their own game.

pelmen84
06-18-2015, 01:59 PM
Haha look it up? Your definition of efficiency is outdated if u believe that. Them obviously lacking depth and facing an even superior defense is why they were so pathetically outmatched. Them playing defense is the ONLY thing you could say about them, the problem was you could say all that and more about the competition. Again they were doing absolutely nothing unless Bron was involved.

Not sure how my offensive efficiency definition is outdated, where it is just pure math. He shot a 35.6%/20%/69% in 2007, and 39.8%/31%/68.7% in 2015, playing exactly the same style of basketball, isolation, shooting on average 10 more times per game then in he did in 2007.

Anyways, too much isolation equals poor performance from all other players, all they are doing is standing around waiting for a pass with 3 seconds left or just to run back on defense. They had success with posting up Mozgov and Thompson early. Once GSW went small, it took those two out of the game, and it was game over, Cleveland could not adjust. They lost to a superior team, both defensively, offensively, more talented, and with a better game plan. Nobody gave Cleveland a chance going into the finals, because everybody knew GSW was that good. But in first three games, Cavs shut down their opponent and easily could have been up 3-0.

All i am saying us give some respect to entire Cleveland team and coach Blatt, not just Lebron

Chronz
06-18-2015, 04:11 PM
Not sure how my offensive efficiency definition is outdated, where it is just pure math. He shot a 35.6%/20%/69% in 2007, and 39.8%/31%/68.7% in 2015, playing exactly the same style of basketball, isolation, shooting on average 10 more times per game then in he did in 2007.
If its that basic then its definitely outdated. Efficiency isn't limited to just shooting percentages (factor tos, oreb, ast), aside from that, Efficiency isn't just about your own stat line, but how you influence the efficiency of others. Blatt let it known that his game plan was to give his rebounders a chance to crash the glass with Bron attracting attention in the paint. Thats gonna hurt his individual line but allows his bigs to enhance theirs. Which is sad considering even when we account for their offensive rebounding, Bron was still far and away the most efficient option they had.



Anyways, too much isolation equals poor performance from all other players, all they are doing is standing around waiting for a pass with 3 seconds left or just to run back on defense.
Their inability to create without him necessitated Bron control the offense. The alternative was what we saw when Bron was either on the bench or not involved in the play (historic lows from the supporting cast). They ran some basic flex action that produced nothing and just devolved into Bron being forced to put shots up.


They had success with posting up Mozgov and Thompson early. Once GSW went small, it took those two out of the game, and it was game over, Cleveland could not adjust. They lost to a superior team, both defensively, offensively, more talented, and with a better game plan. Nobody gave Cleveland a chance going into the finals, because everybody knew GSW was that good. But in first three games, Cavs shut down their opponent and easily could have been up 3-0. All i am saying us give some respect to entire Cleveland team and coach Blatt, not just Lebron
Why would I creditt Blatt and a flawed roster for their inability to adjust? GS was VASTLY more talented, the role players hustled and I respect that, the team was shallow and they tired out. A for effort but that doesn't make them underrated.

Scoots
06-19-2015, 12:55 PM
The flawed roster can in large part be blamed on GM LeBron with the nearly useless depth of Miller, Marion, and Jones. If you are going to credit LeBron for his individual play you must also blame LeBron for the lack of depth.

People have been talking about the Warriors like they are a team of superstars ... there is exactly 1 superstar on the Warriors. Green hustles and plays hard on D, but his shooting inside and out is terrible and he's undersized for his position which causes problems too. Iguodala is a great defender of wings but very limited as a scorer and his FT shooting is a major weakness. Klay is a great shooter and a very good defender but his confidence and consistency are still considerable problems and he doesn't rebound like he should. Barbosa is a terrible defender and makes bad turnovers too often. Bogut is essentially a scoring 0, can't defend outside of 8 feet from the hoop, and can't hit FTs. Livingston can't shoot and can't defend against physical opponents. Barnes disappears and plays soft for large portions of games. Speights is a one trick pony. Lee plays bad defense and gives up more and-1s than anyone I've ever seen.

People are giving too much credit to the individual talents on the Warriors roster and not enough credit to the individual talents on the Cavs roster. The difference was that the Warriors played as a better team than the Cavs did, not JUST the roster.