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KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 12:01 AM
LeBron had a great run.

Raps08-09 Champ
06-17-2015, 12:03 AM
Lebron lost that to Durant like last year. So Curry is taking it from Durant.

sportsfanatic99
06-17-2015, 12:03 AM
Lol wut?

Avenged
06-17-2015, 12:04 AM
Colby.

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 12:06 AM
Lebron lost that to Durant like last year. So Curry is taking it from Durant.

:laugh: Be serious.

xnick5757
06-17-2015, 12:06 AM
Nope.

Raps08-09 Champ
06-17-2015, 12:07 AM
:laugh: Be serious.

:dance:

lol, please
06-17-2015, 12:07 AM
LeBron had a great run.

Curry metaphorically slapped him across the face and said "gimme dat".

Curry is #1.

Where is PraiseJesus :worthy:

More-Than-Most
06-17-2015, 12:07 AM
He isnt even top 3... James/Durant/Cp3/Davis are all better sorry.

sportsfanatic99
06-17-2015, 12:08 AM
No way. He wasnt even the best player on his team.

Raps08-09 Champ
06-17-2015, 12:09 AM
He isnt even top 3... James/Durant/Cp3/Davis are all better sorry.

MVP and champ bruh.

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 12:09 AM
He isnt even top 3... James/Durant/Cp3/Davis are all better sorry.

That's why they were all sitting at home watching Steph Curry give his regular season MVP speech and they are all spectators now as Curry wins his first win and Finals MVP.

xnick5757
06-17-2015, 12:10 AM
That's why they were all sitting at home watching Steph Curry give his regular season MVP speech and they are all spectators now as Curry wins his first win and Finals MVP.

ringz

Jayb587
06-17-2015, 12:10 AM
Lmao not!

sportsfanatic99
06-17-2015, 12:10 AM
Iggy got MVP LOL

curry didnt get mvp.

Raps08-09 Champ
06-17-2015, 12:10 AM
That's why they were all sitting at home watching Steph Curry give his regular season MVP speech and they are all spectators now as Curry wins his first win and Finals MVP.

Iggy.

:dance:

More-Than-Most
06-17-2015, 12:11 AM
That's why they were all sitting at home watching Steph Curry give his regular season MVP speech and they are all spectators now as Curry wins his first win and Finals MVP.

Except curry wasnt even the best player on his team... Iggy was and got the MVP.

Avenged
06-17-2015, 12:11 AM
He isnt even top 3... James/Durant/Cp3/Davis are all better sorry.

That's why they were all sitting at home watching Steph Curry give his regular season MVP speech and they are all spectators now as Curry wins his first win and Finals MVP.

U can close your own thread now.

Iggy

More-Than-Most
06-17-2015, 12:11 AM
Iggy is the best player in the world... has the finals MVP and a ring.

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 12:12 AM
:laugh: Iguodala. What a joke.

PraiseJesus
06-17-2015, 12:13 AM
Curry metaphorically slapped him across the face and said "gimme dat".

Curry is #1.

Where is PraiseJesus :worthy:

This is only the beginning :)

B'sCeltsPatsSox
06-17-2015, 12:13 AM
RIP Currybeing#1 in NBA. Was alive for 11 minutes.

Raps08-09 Champ
06-17-2015, 12:14 AM
:laugh: Iguodala. What a joke.

I agree. Lebron as clearly the FMVP.

THE MTL
06-17-2015, 12:14 AM
Cause he beat Lebron with no Kyrie/Love and with the help of Draymond Green, Klay Thompson, and Andre Igudola.

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 12:15 AM
LeBron couldn't even shoot 40% from the field. Give me a break. Get over it. Curry got doubled team every possession. If you counted hockey assists he went for like 25ppg / 20apg

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 12:16 AM
Cause he beat Lebron with no Kyrie/Love and with the help of Draymond Green, Klay Thompson, and Andre Igudola.

Thompson had a bad series for him what are you talking about?

G-Menfan4lyfe
06-17-2015, 12:16 AM
Disgraceful that LeBron didn't get FMVP. No other player could have done so much with so little.

G-Menfan4lyfe
06-17-2015, 12:17 AM
The crazy thing is the Warriors lived by the 3 this series and won it all. Can't remember the last time a team did that.

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 12:18 AM
Disgraceful that LeBron didn't get FMVP. No other player could have done so much with so little.

:laugh: What did he do those last 3 games? He was terrible. Couldn't hit a shot. Turnover machine. Terrible defender. This epic performance was over by game 4.

IBleedPurple
06-17-2015, 12:19 AM
LeBron had a great run.

Curry metaphorically slapped him across the face and said "gimme dat".

Curry is #1.

Where is PraiseJesus :worthy:Yes, Curry played 2 good games. Lebron had an all-time great Finals. Close though.

LA_Raiders
06-17-2015, 12:19 AM
He is up there. CP3 and LeBron choked. kD injured.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
06-17-2015, 12:19 AM
The crazy thing is the Warriors lived by the 3 this series and won it all. Can't remember the last time a team did that.

The Heat were a really good three point shooting team in 2012 IIRC

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 12:19 AM
You gotta love that a wing player who was being fouled intentionally and had to be subbed out in the clinching game won FMVP.

Redrum187
06-17-2015, 12:20 AM
I really hate when people say "not sure if serious"... but wtf, not sure if serious. Curry is top 5 without a shadow of a doubt, but no way is he the best player.

LeBron James is still the best player on the planet followed by a huge gap, then Kevin Durant (the healthy version, no idea what he's like now).

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 12:21 AM
Yes, Curry played 2 good games. Lebron had an all-time great Finals. Close though.

2 good games? Are you serious? He had a bad game 2 and was good to great the rest of the way. Try 5 good games.

G-Menfan4lyfe
06-17-2015, 12:21 AM
You gotta love that a wing player who was being fouled intentionally and had to be subbed out in the clinching game won FMVP.

That's why it's disgraceful imo.

Redrum187
06-17-2015, 12:21 AM
You gotta love that a wing player who was being fouled intentionally and had to be subbed out in the clinching game won FMVP.

Without Iggy, the Cavs win as LeBron gets similar numbers but on better efficiency.

Without Curry, Cavs still win.

sportsfanatic99
06-17-2015, 12:21 AM
He is up there. CP3 and LeBron choked. kD injured.

They didnt choke. Warriors just had a better team

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 12:21 AM
I really hate when people say "not sure if serious"... but wtf, not sure if serious. Curry is top 5 without a shadow of a doubt, but no way is he the best player.

LeBron James is still the best player on the planet followed by a huge gap, then Kevin Durant (the healthy version, no idea what he's like now).

Based on what? His horrific shooting? His terrible defense? Or the fact that his team just got crushed in the last 3 games to lose 4-2?

xnick5757
06-17-2015, 12:22 AM
You gotta love that a wing player who was being fouled intentionally and had to be subbed out in the clinching game won FMVP.

yep

a lot of his offense came out of the defense's focus on curry too

Redrum187
06-17-2015, 12:22 AM
As much as I hate to give the FMVP to the losing team, I can't think of another single objective argument for why FMVP wasn't LeBron James. He's not even my top 10 favorite players either...

G-Menfan4lyfe
06-17-2015, 12:23 AM
Yes, Curry played 2 good games. Lebron had an all-time great Finals. Close though.

2 good games? Are you serious? He had a bad game 2 and was good to great the rest of the way. Try 5 good games.

He was pretty meh tonight. Without the intentional fouls and FTs at the end Curry wouldn't have even scored 20.

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 12:23 AM
The crazy thing is the Warriors lived by the 3 this series and won it all. Can't remember the last time a team did that.

Well there was the Warriors this season, the Spurs the season before, and the Heat the season before. :laugh: Each of the last 3 seasons the champs were elite 3pt shooting teams.

Raps08-09 Champ
06-17-2015, 12:24 AM
LeBron couldn't even shoot 40% from the field. Give me a break. Get over it. Curry got doubled team every possession. If you counted hockey assists he went for like 25ppg / 20apg

Doesn't really change the fact that he was the best player on the floor.

Redrum187
06-17-2015, 12:25 AM
Based on what? His horrific shooting? His terrible defense? Or the fact that his team just got crushed in the last 3 games to lose 4-2?

It's not based off of such a small sample size nor is it based off of team variables. That is the difference between how you measure individual talent and how I measure it.

It's measured off individual performance and to what extend they excel on both sides of the court.

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 12:25 AM
yep

a lot of his offense came out of the defense's focus on curry too

Finally someone with a pulse who watched the games. How the hell do people think Draymond Green got double digit assists? Iggy and Green were playing 4-3 and taking wide open jump shots. Did Curry care? Did Curry force shots? No he played the right way and picked his spots. The fact that he averaged about 25ppg while being so unselfish is impressive. Not to mention how he clinched each of the last 3 games with big shots in the 4th quarter.

Raps08-09 Champ
06-17-2015, 12:25 AM
Based on what? His horrific shooting? His terrible defense? Or the fact that his team just got crushed in the last 3 games to lose 4-2?

Based on his value to the Cavaliers. Lebron obviously didn't play as well as he could have efficiency wise. He was still the most valuable player on the floor.

G-Menfan4lyfe
06-17-2015, 12:25 AM
The crazy thing is the Warriors lived by the 3 this series and won it all. Can't remember the last time a team did that.

Well there was the Warriors this season, the Spurs the season before, and the Heat the season before. :laugh: Each of the last 3 seasons the champs were elite 3pt shooting teams.

In no way did the Spurs "LIVE" by the 3 last year. They had TD doing work in the paint as well as Tony Parker slashing to the rim.

xnick5757
06-17-2015, 12:25 AM
Well there was the Warriors this season, the Spurs the season before, and the Heat the season before. :laugh: Each of the last 3 seasons the champs were elite 3pt shooting teams.

Celtics of 07/08 too

Redrum187
06-17-2015, 12:26 AM
Doesn't really change the fact that he was the best player on the floor.

Agreed... he could have shot 25% and put up the numbers he did and he still was the best player on the court.

More-Than-Most
06-17-2015, 12:27 AM
:laugh: What did he do those last 3 games? He was terrible. Couldn't hit a shot. Turnover machine. Terrible defender. This epic performance was over by game 4.

do you know basketball? asking honestly? he was historic in almost every single game and deserved the mvp

B'sCeltsPatsSox
06-17-2015, 12:28 AM
It's a shame that coaches are ineligible to win. I would've given it to Kerr.

But if the past two years have shown anything, a 7 game series is too short to determine who the best player is in that many games. They should make it like the NHL and have a playoffs MVP instead.

Redrum187
06-17-2015, 12:28 AM
Finally someone with a pulse who watched the games. How the hell do people think Draymond Green got double digit assists? Iggy and Green were playing 4-3 and taking wide open jump shots. Did Curry care? Did Curry force shots? No he played the right way and picked his spots. The fact that he averaged about 25ppg while being so unselfish is impressive. Not to mention how he clinched each of the last 3 games with big shots in the 4th quarter.

I'm not taking anything away from Curry. Just because I don't think he is FMVP worthy (apparently neither does the league), doesn't mean I think he was trash. He put up great numbers.

Curry's greatness is irrelevant to LeBron James' godly talent.

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 12:29 AM
Without Iggy, the Cavs win as LeBron gets similar numbers but on better efficiency.

Without Curry, Cavs still win.

They still win without Iggy.


It's not based off of such a small sample size nor is it based off of team variables. That is the difference between how you measure individual talent and how I measure it.

It's measured off individual performance and to what extend they excel on both sides of the court.

How on Earth did LeBron excel more than Curry? Curry drew just as much defensive attention, was much more efficient scoring, and didn't nap like LeBron did on defense.

Dade County
06-17-2015, 12:29 AM
I know KD is like wtf do I have to do to get my first ring.

Redrum187
06-17-2015, 12:30 AM
do you know basketball? asking honestly? he was historic in almost every single game and deserved the mvp

It's not that he doesn't know basketball, it's that he is inappropriately using team play in conjunction with James' inefficient offensive game in a 6 game sample size to "prove" that Curry is the best player in the world today.

Bostonjorge
06-17-2015, 12:30 AM
Iggy took James soul

lol, please
06-17-2015, 12:32 AM
I know KD is like wtf do I have to do to get my first ring.

Join the Warriors :)

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 12:32 AM
Based on his value to the Cavaliers. Lebron obviously didn't play as well as he could have efficiency wise. He was still the most valuable player on the floor.

This argument is so fake. The worse the teammates the better LeBron is and the better the teammates the worse LeBron is. It's bizarre. Stop living off the first 3 games. I love that people are impressed by a guying shooting <40% from the floor, 31% from 3pt, and less than 70% from the FT line. Allen Iverson would be proud.

bucketss
06-17-2015, 12:32 AM
curry and lebron switch teams and cavs get swept with an average loss of 25 points.

Bigbadmoffo
06-17-2015, 12:32 AM
If Lebron had played 38 min and shot 50 percent or more they would have won. Everyone is acting like Golden state was full of superstars. Klay young and unproven, Green young player who benefits from Curry passing and hard work. Bogut a decent injury prone center and Iggy who isn't even an allstar. This is Nash all over again with people as he made all those suns players stars. What happen to Marion, Stoudamire ect? Without Curry that team isn't even a playoff team as they rely on his passing and being double teamed. Irving and Love wouldn't have even helped in this series. Irving couldn't d up on Curry like Dellavedova and Love would have made the d weak as hell. Lebron is so overrated and it's all because of his sheer power and the ability to push off on every defender. If Curry had his size he would be way better!

BallIsAll
06-17-2015, 12:35 AM
Iggy was the mvp to the winning team. Lebron was amazing throughout the series even though he was inefficient from the field. You can't really blame him though the spacing was horrible. Curry played a great unselfish series putting up points on a good percentage while being the main focus of the defense. The only problem I had with curry was his turnovers. Great series by lebron and the Warriors. No excuses though they made it to the finals and still had players playing.

c.c.
06-17-2015, 12:35 AM
Bron is the best player in the world. Curry is the best player in his division though if that makes things better

Redrum187
06-17-2015, 12:35 AM
They still win without Iggy.



How on Earth did LeBron excel more than Curry? Curry drew just as much defensive attention, was much more efficient scoring, and didn't nap like LeBron did on defense.

Once again, this is 6 games. Let's pretend for a minute that Curry and James received equal defensive treatment, GSW had multiple players to through at James all the while having teammates to space the floor and help with the offensive load.

If a team has 5 mediocre scorers on it versus a team with 1 phenomenal scorer (although not naturally a scorer), it becomes exponentially easier to shut that team down.

Lastly, Curry hit some sick shots and he was below his typical efficient self, but was nevertheless impressive. This has absolutely nothing to do with LeBron James or the scenario he is in as they are 2 astronomically different teams. I'm not sure why you're not understanding that.

Raps08-09 Champ
06-17-2015, 12:35 AM
This argument is so fake. The worse the teammates the better LeBron is and the better the teammates the worse LeBron is. It's bizarre. Stop living off the first 3 games. I love that people are impressed by a guying shooting <40% from the floor, 31% from 3pt, and less than 70% from the FT line. Allen Iverson would be proud.

So Lebron didn't have his most efficient seasons offensively when he had better teammates?

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 12:38 AM
Without Iggy, the Cavs win as LeBron gets similar numbers but on better efficiency.

Without Curry, Cavs still win.


In no way did the Spurs "LIVE" by the 3 last year. They had TD doing work in the paint as well as Tony Parker slashing to the rim.

:laugh: They made 9 threes per game during their playoff run. But don't let facts get in the way.

Redrum187
06-17-2015, 12:39 AM
So Lebron didn't have his most efficient seasons offensively when he had better teammates?

Apparently it's just a coincidence that the more quality help you have, the more efficient you are to him.

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 12:40 AM
do you know basketball? asking honestly? he was historic in almost every single game and deserved the mvp

You are making 0 arguments. #generic

Raps08-09 Champ
06-17-2015, 12:40 AM
:laugh2:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHrLoYpUYAAlpg9.jpg

Curry didn't even get a vote.

YAALREADYKNO
06-17-2015, 12:40 AM
Talk about overreacting

Redrum187
06-17-2015, 12:40 AM
:laugh: They made 9 threes per game during their playoff run. But don't let facts get in the way.

Eh?

bucketss
06-17-2015, 12:40 AM
If Lebron had played 38 min and shot 50 percent or more they would have won. Everyone is acting like Golden state was full of superstars. Klay young and unproven, Green young player who benefits from Curry passing and hard work. Bogut a decent injury prone center and Iggy who isn't even an allstar. This is Nash all over again with people as he made all those suns players stars. What happen to Marion, Stoudamire ect? Without Curry that team isn't even a playoff team as they rely on his passing and being double teamed. Irving and Love wouldn't have even helped in this series. Irving couldn't d up on Curry like Dellavedova and Love would have made the d weak as hell. Lebron is so overrated and it's all because of his sheer power and the ability to push off on every defender. If Curry had his size he would be way better!

if lebron was curry size he would have probably developed different skills lol. same with curry, if he had brons size i don't think he would develop the same skills, he would focus more on post game, rebounding etc. these type of comparisons are a bit unfair.

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 12:41 AM
It's not that he doesn't know basketball, it's that he is inappropriately using team play in conjunction with James' inefficient offensive game in a 6 game sample size to "prove" that Curry is the best player in the world today.

6 games? :rolleyes: How did LeBron and Curry compare during the regular season?

Redrum187
06-17-2015, 12:41 AM
:laugh2:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHrLoYpUYAAlpg9.jpg

Curry didn't even get a vote.

That list just became KoB's hit list...

Redrum187
06-17-2015, 12:42 AM
6 games? :rolleyes: How did LeBron and Curry compare during the regular season?

Okay, it's official... you're not understanding that team play is only a tiny tiny tiny part of the equation when determining individual value. Hell, some might even feel it has no place at all when discussing individual talent.

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 12:44 AM
So Lebron didn't have his most efficient seasons offensively when he had better teammates?

You missed my point so horrifically. LeBron did not get as much as credit for the 2 rings because he played with Wade/Bosh but now that he is losing with bums he is getting too much credit.

Sadds The Gr8
06-17-2015, 12:44 AM
I can see KoB's argument but I don't know if I can take him over LBJ or KD.

Raps08-09 Champ
06-17-2015, 12:45 AM
You missed my point so horrifically. LeBron did not get as much as credit for the 2 rings because he played with Wade/Bosh but now that he is losing with bums he is getting too much credit.

Not really. He's getting the right amount of credit.

Ty Fast
06-17-2015, 12:45 AM
Curry wasnt even the best player on his team durring the finals.

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 12:46 AM
Okay, it's official... you're not understanding that team play is only a tiny tiny tiny part of the equation when determining individual value. Hell, some might even feel it has no place at all when discussing individual talent.

Your posts are so generic right now it's boring me to sleep. Please stop quoting me unless you are actually going to engage and make a point.

mngopher35
06-17-2015, 12:46 AM
I actually am curious who most people think is the best player in the nba, shoulda done a poll.

I think Lebron was clearly the best player in this series so I don't think this helps currys case (nor does losing fmvp to iggy). With that said I also don't think one series is enough to prove anything especially with such different supporting casts. This is the first year in a while I don't really think Lebron is still the best in the NBA.

I'm not sure there really is one that most would agree with (curry had great year, Lebron was impressive in the finals and has been on top for so long, Durant injured after last year mvp then weak post season, Davis coming up).

Redrum187
06-17-2015, 12:49 AM
I can see KoB's argument but I don't know if I can take him over LBJ or KD.

I get it too. He's right in that when LeBron won with 2 good/great teammates, people didn't give him enough credit for it, but now that he has Dellavedova as his best teammate, he is getting too much credit.

I just disagree with it a tiny bit. You'll see idiots who want to discredit LeBron James' accomplishments for a multitude of reasons. The inverse of that is you'll have people exaggerate his greatness and/or are complete homers about him.

I think what he did this postseason is more impressive than what he did his 2 Finals appearances where he won it all. Would I rather have the 2 rings if I was him? No ****! lol But looking at what he was able to do in spite of the superior GSW, I think he deserves a ton of credit as it's far more impressive (to me).

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 12:49 AM
I can see KoB's argument but I don't know if I can take him over LBJ or KD.

I don't see why it is so hard. I've probably never watched a non-Knicks team more than I watched this Warriors team because I've been so impressed with Steph Curry all season. He's so surgical with how he controls the court. He's so unselfish. He had no problem letting Draymond and Iguodala play 4-3 the entire series. What happened? They had huge assist games. The Warriors took uncontested shot after uncontested shot. So Curry was an afterthought? No. Despite playing the right way and allowing his teammates to reach their potential. He still consistently stepped up in the 4th quarter of ALL 3 of the last 3 games to tie this series, take control of this series, and clinch this series. If you counted hockey assists the guy put up 25ppg and 20apg. Incredible performance.

lol, please
06-17-2015, 12:52 AM
Lebron
Curry
Davis
Durant
Harden
Other

Discuss.

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 12:53 AM
Not really. He's getting the right amount of credit.

Why is it chucking when Iverson or Kobe do it but because LeBron gets 3-4 more apg and 5-6 more rpg it suddenly becomes one of the greatest performances of all-time? And I am STILL waiting for any of you to engage me on LeBron's non-existent defense. He was perfectly content letting Curry carve up his team and set up 4-3's the entire series. Didn't any of you get sick of LeBron on "help" defense watching the Warriors get easy lay-ups/draw fouls at the rim and get wide open 3's?

believeinNYK
06-17-2015, 12:54 AM
Lebron proved he's the best player in the league by taking this team farther than anyone else imagined. Curry is probably around 5th best player

PraiseJesus
06-17-2015, 12:56 AM
Curry is the most perrenially underrated and underappreciated player that I've ever seen.

The guy is so good and so smooth and so unassuming physically that he has always been overlooked.

All he does is play team ball, run the squad, drain impssobile 3s, draw tons of attention, and make perfect passes at the perfect times while playing great defense.

But he just makes it looks so effortless and easy... maybe that's why hes been so underrated his entire career

Raps08-09 Champ
06-17-2015, 12:59 AM
Why is it chucking when Iverson or Kobe do it but because LeBron gets 3-4 more apg and 5-6 more rpg it suddenly becomes one of the greatest performances of all-time? And I am STILL waiting for any of you to engage me on LeBron's non-existent defense. He was perfectly content letting Curry carve up his team and set up 4-3's the entire series. Didn't any of you get sick of LeBron on "help" defense watching the Warriors get easy lay-ups/draw fouls at the rim and get wide open 3's?

Just because other people don't give the right amount of credit to Iverson and Kobe doesn't mean that Lebron is getting the wrong amount of credit. Lebron was "chucking", but that doesn't suddenly make his performance a bad one. It was a great performance given the circumstances.

I didn't think he played great defense, but that doesn't really change the fact that he was still more valuable to the Cavs than anyone else was to their team.

Sadds The Gr8
06-17-2015, 01:01 AM
I get it too. He's right in that when LeBron won with 2 good/great teammates, people didn't give him enough credit for it, but now that he has Dellavedova as his best teammate, he is getting too much credit.

I just disagree with it a tiny bit. You'll see idiots who want to discredit LeBron James' accomplishments for a multitude of reasons. The inverse of that is you'll have people exaggerate his greatness and/or are complete homers about him.

I think what he did this postseason is more impressive than what he did his 2 Finals appearances where he won it all. Would I rather have the 2 rings if I was him? No ****! lol But looking at what he was able to do in spite of the superior GSW, I think he deserves a ton of credit as it's far more impressive (to me).
I'm talking about Curry's impact, not the credit stuff

I don't see why it is so hard. I've probably never watched a non-Knicks team more than I watched this Warriors team because I've been so impressed with Steph Curry all season. He's so surgical with how he controls the court. He's so unselfish. He had no problem letting Draymond and Iguodala play 4-3 the entire series. What happened? They had huge assist games. The Warriors took uncontested shot after uncontested shot. So Curry was an afterthought? No. Despite playing the right way and allowing his teammates to reach their potential. He still consistently stepped up in the 4th quarter of ALL 3 of the last 3 games to tie this series, take control of this series, and clinch this series. If you counted hockey assists the guy put up 25ppg and 20apg. Incredible performance.
Yea it's amazing how much of a threat he is. His 3pt shooting is untouchable and he has to be accounted for even 25 ft away from the basket. he gives his team so much space it's ridiculous. He's an offensive force we've never seen before...

I just don't know if I'd take him over LBJ or Durant though. He's clearly in the top 3, and he's definitely in the conversation with them for best in the league. Nobody I've seen spreads an offense like he does. He's a one man system.

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 01:02 AM
Curry is the most perrenially underrated and underappreciated player that I've ever seen.

The guy is so good and so smooth and so unassuming physically that he has always been overlooked.

All he does is play team ball, run the squad, drain impssobile 3s, draw tons of attention, and make perfect passes at the perfect times while playing great defense.

But he just makes it looks so effortless and easy... maybe that's why hes been so underrated his entire career

Spot-on. Best post in the thread describing Curry's contribution to the team. Just think about the play where LeBron was guarding Iguodala, WHO HAD THE BALL, and LeBron left to double Curry in the corner and Iguodala went in for a wide open dunk. like WTF? Can LeBron DO THAT? No.

Curry just said "stats don't matter." "You gotta block that out and just worry about winning." That's how good he is. He can play the right way and still get almost 30ppg.

Redrum187
06-17-2015, 01:04 AM
Your posts are so generic right now it's boring me to sleep. Please stop quoting me unless you are actually going to engage and make a point.

I did make a point. Stephen Curry's superior squad is not valid data to prove or suggest Curry is superior to LeBron James in spite of his below 40% FG. How is that not a point?

Sadds The Gr8
06-17-2015, 01:05 AM
Why is it chucking when Iverson or Kobe do it but because LeBron gets 3-4 more apg and 5-6 more rpg it suddenly becomes one of the greatest performances of all-time? And I am STILL waiting for any of you to engage me on LeBron's non-existent defense. He was perfectly content letting Curry carve up his team and set up 4-3's the entire series. Didn't any of you get sick of LeBron on "help" defense watching the Warriors get easy lay-ups/draw fouls at the rim and get wide open 3's?

I'm with you on the overrating of his finals performance but I don't think he chucked. He didn't take THAT many bad shots.

His defense definitely slipped (I expected him to guard Curry at the end of games like he did Rose 3-4 yrs ago but it seems like that wasn't even considered)...that's not my biggest worry tho. My main problem with LBJ this series was the amazing # of point blank layups he missed. He missed a ton of shots around the basket...shots he woulda never missed 3-4 yrs ago.

DODGERS&LAKERS
06-17-2015, 01:06 AM
Anthony Davis

Redrum187
06-17-2015, 01:06 AM
Curry is the most perrenially underrated and underappreciated player that I've ever seen.



The fact that people think he's the greatest player in the NBA leads me to think he's either rated just fine or slightly overrated.

He is in my top 5 favorite players and top 5 best players in the league today (LeBron isn't even in my top 10 favorite players).

xnick5757
06-17-2015, 01:07 AM
I'm with you on the overrating of his finals performance but I don't think he chucked. He didn't take THAT many bad shots.

His defense definitely slipped (I expected him to guard Curry at the end of games like he did Rose 3-4 yrs ago but it seems like that wasn't even considered)...that's not my biggest worry tho. My main problem with LBJ this series was the amazing # of point blank layups he missed. He missed a ton of shots around the basket...shots he woulda never missed 3-4 yrs ago.

its tough to play good defense AND shoulder the entire offensive load for your team at the same time... in fact, its probably impossible

More-Than-Most
06-17-2015, 01:08 AM
Why is it chucking when Iverson or Kobe do it but because LeBron gets 3-4 more apg and 5-6 more rpg it suddenly becomes one of the greatest performances of all-time? And I am STILL waiting for any of you to engage me on LeBron's non-existent defense. He was perfectly content letting Curry carve up his team and set up 4-3's the entire series. Didn't any of you get sick of LeBron on "help" defense watching the Warriors get easy lay-ups/draw fouls at the rim and get wide open 3's?


um... do you not understand how big those 4 assists and about 7 plus rebounds are and his 40 points against what is a great defense and with as little talent as he had to work with? yes he shot alot and missed but he did what he did against what is suppose to be one of the best teams ever while being double teamed with no rest at all and no help... So its not just 4 assists and 7 rebounds... its 4 assists/7 rebounds with no rest and a crap squad. You have no argument at all here.

Dade County
06-17-2015, 01:08 AM
Lbj
KD
AD

Then it's everyone else.

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 01:08 AM
I'm talking about Curry's impact, not the credit stuff

Yea it's amazing how much of a threat he is. His 3pt shooting is untouchable and he has to be accounted for even 25 ft away from the basket. he gives his team so much space it's ridiculous. He's an offensive force we've never seen before...

I just don't know if I'd take him over LBJ or Durant though. He's clearly in the top 3, and he's definitely in the conversation with them for best in the league. Nobody I've seen spreads an offense like he does. He's a one man system.

I'm surprised people are still this comfortable bringing up Durant especially coming off an injury. I'd take Curry in a heartbeat.


I'm with you on the overrating of his finals performance but I don't think he chucked. He didn't take THAT many bad shots.

His defense definitely slipped (I expected him to guard Curry at the end of games like he did Rose 3-4 yrs ago but it seems like that wasn't even considered)...that's not my biggest worry tho. My main problem with LBJ this series was the amazing # of point blank layups he missed. He missed a ton of shots around the basket...shots he woulda never missed 3-4 yrs ago.

Agreed.

Sadds The Gr8
06-17-2015, 01:09 AM
its tough to play good defense AND shoulder the entire offensive load for your team at the same time... in fact, its probably impossible

that's why I said it wasnt my biggest worry. I'm disappointed in the # of easy shots he missed.

Redrum187
06-17-2015, 01:10 AM
I'm surprised people are still this comfortable bringing up Durant especially coming off an injury. I'd take Curry in a heartbeat.



Agreed.

If we were drafting players as of today, I would too (it's the safer bet as you know what you're getting). If Durant is equal to what he was before injury, I'd probably slightly regret it.

More-Than-Most
06-17-2015, 01:11 AM
How is curry better than CP3? This is the first year where curry was better and he wasnt even that much better than cp3... CP3 plays just as good defensively as he does offensively... Curry does not come close to the defense that CP3 provides and he isnt as good with protecting the ball either. CP3 doesnt score as much but curry does nothing else better than cp3.

ewing
06-17-2015, 01:11 AM
can you make an option for Mozgov?

Sadds The Gr8
06-17-2015, 01:11 AM
I'm surprised people are still this comfortable bringing up Durant especially coming off an injury. I'd take Curry in a heartbeat.



Agreed.

I'm optimistic about him being healthy but obviously that's a tossup and completely subjective. If he's the 13-14 KD, I'd have him up there as the best player.

JordansBulls
06-17-2015, 01:11 AM
Curry had the best numbers on the season clearly, he and Harden.

Value Over Replacement Player
1. Stephen Curry ▪ GSW 7.9
2. James Harden ▪ HOU 7.8
3. Russell Westbrook ▪ OKC 7.6
4. Chris Paul ▪ LAC 6.9
5. LeBron James ▪ CLE 5.9


Box Plus/Minus
1. Russell Westbrook ▪ OKC 11.0
2. Stephen Curry ▪ GSW 9.9
3. James Harden ▪ HOU 8.4
4. Chris Paul ▪ LAC 7.5
5. LeBron James ▪ CLE 7.4


Win Shares Per 48 Minutes
1. Stephen Curry ▪ GSW .288
2. Anthony Davis ▪ NOP .274
3. Chris Paul ▪ LAC .270
4. James Harden ▪ HOU .265
5. Russell Westbrook ▪ OKC .222


Win Shares
1. James Harden ▪ HOU 16.4
2. Chris Paul ▪ LAC 16.1
3. Stephen Curry ▪ GSW 15.7
4. Anthony Davis ▪ NOP 14.0
5. DeAndre Jordan ▪ LAC 12.8


Player Efficiency Rating
1. Anthony Davis ▪ NOP 30.8
2. Russell Westbrook ▪ OKC 29.1
3. Stephen Curry ▪ GSW 28.0
4. James Harden ▪ HOU 26.7
5. Chris Paul ▪ LAC 26.0


Lebron's regular season was no where near those guys.

Redrum187
06-17-2015, 01:11 AM
that's why I said it wasnt my biggest worry. I'm disappointed in the # of easy shots he missed.

I noticed that too. A LeBron apologist would just say it's because he was gassed. Either way, he needed to finish those.

More-Than-Most
06-17-2015, 01:12 AM
that's why I said it wasnt my biggest worry. I'm disappointed in the # of easy shots he missed.

this is true and its not a complete out but he was hacked so much and didnt get the calls near the rim that all other super stars get.

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 01:13 AM
I did make a point. Stephen Curry's superior squad is not valid data to prove or suggest Curry is superior to LeBron James in spite of his below 40% FG. How is that not a point?

#1.) Because I never said that.
#2.) It ignores what made them such a superior squad.
#2.) You haven't addressed any of my actual arguments.

ThaDubs
06-17-2015, 01:14 AM
LeBron's Finals performance this year is being criminally overrated. He played very bad defense and chucked non-stop. The rebounds and assists were cute but he was doing it against a 4-guard lineup. The most impressive part of his game was his assisting, which is a lot easier when the entire defense is focused on you

Sadds The Gr8
06-17-2015, 01:14 AM
How is curry better than CP3? This is the first year where curry was better and he wasnt even that much better than cp3... CP3 plays just as good defensively as he does offensively... Curry does not come close to the defense that CP3 provides and he isnt as good with protecting the ball either. CP3 doesnt score as much but curry does nothing else better than cp3.

I think this year he passed CP3. his shooting is just a defensive-system breaker. no other player wrecks a defense like Curry. CP3 is awesome but he's easier to contain.

More-Than-Most
06-17-2015, 01:14 AM
Curry had the best numbers on the season clearly, he and Harden.

Value Over Replacement Player
1. Stephen Curry ▪ GSW 7.9
2. James Harden ▪ HOU 7.8
3. Russell Westbrook ▪ OKC 7.6
4. Chris Paul ▪ LAC 6.9
5. LeBron James ▪ CLE 5.9


Box Plus/Minus
1. Russell Westbrook ▪ OKC 11.0
2. Stephen Curry ▪ GSW 9.9
3. James Harden ▪ HOU 8.4
4. Chris Paul ▪ LAC 7.5
5. LeBron James ▪ CLE 7.4


Win Shares Per 48 Minutes
1. Stephen Curry ▪ GSW .288
2. Anthony Davis ▪ NOP .274
3. Chris Paul ▪ LAC .270
4. James Harden ▪ HOU .265
5. Russell Westbrook ▪ OKC .222


Win Shares
1. James Harden ▪ HOU 16.4
2. Chris Paul ▪ LAC 16.1
3. Stephen Curry ▪ GSW 15.7
4. Anthony Davis ▪ NOP 14.0
5. DeAndre Jordan ▪ LAC 12.8


Player Efficiency Rating
1. Anthony Davis ▪ NOP 30.8
2. Russell Westbrook ▪ OKC 29.1
3. Stephen Curry ▪ GSW 28.0
4. James Harden ▪ HOU 26.7
5. Chris Paul ▪ LAC 26.0


Lebron's regular season was no where near those guys.

I am sure it had nothing to do with him being injured for the first 15 games of the season and playing with a brand new team and new players... no that couldnt be it.

Raps08-09 Champ
06-17-2015, 01:14 AM
People say Lebron's performance was impressive relative to the circumstances and the results it brought. This could have easily been a sweep but he had to do what he had to do in order to keep his team in the game, and it worked considering they won 2 games (games that they really shouldn't have won) and kept it close for the most part. He obviously had moments where he lapsed, but the overall performance was great considering the situation he was in.

If he averaged the same stats but played with better teammates, got swept and got blown out each game, of course no one would be speaking of his performance in the same manner.

Tony_Starks
06-17-2015, 01:14 AM
For now its Steph Curry with the shot boy, although I'll be waiting to see if KD can reclaim it when he comes back....

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 01:14 AM
this is true and its not a complete out but he was hacked so much and didnt get the calls near the rim that all other super stars get.

They specifically zoomed in on replays that showed he wasn't getting fouled. Any minimal contact wasn't getting called on either end. Curry would have had at least 2-3 AND 1's tonight.

More-Than-Most
06-17-2015, 01:15 AM
I think this year he passed CP3. his shooting is just a defensive-system breaker. no other player wrecks a defense like Curry. CP3 is awesome but he's easier to contain.

OH I dont disagree but we both know Basketball is a 2 way sport and no PG comes close to playing the defense that CP3 does while doing what he does offensively... That is what people dont give enough credit to on this site.

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 01:18 AM
Curry had the best numbers on the season clearly, he and Harden.

Value Over Replacement Player
1. Stephen Curry ▪ GSW 7.9
2. James Harden ▪ HOU 7.8
3. Russell Westbrook ▪ OKC 7.6
4. Chris Paul ▪ LAC 6.9
5. LeBron James ▪ CLE 5.9


Box Plus/Minus
1. Russell Westbrook ▪ OKC 11.0
2. Stephen Curry ▪ GSW 9.9
3. James Harden ▪ HOU 8.4
4. Chris Paul ▪ LAC 7.5
5. LeBron James ▪ CLE 7.4


Win Shares Per 48 Minutes
1. Stephen Curry ▪ GSW .288
2. Anthony Davis ▪ NOP .274
3. Chris Paul ▪ LAC .270
4. James Harden ▪ HOU .265
5. Russell Westbrook ▪ OKC .222


Win Shares
1. James Harden ▪ HOU 16.4
2. Chris Paul ▪ LAC 16.1
3. Stephen Curry ▪ GSW 15.7
4. Anthony Davis ▪ NOP 14.0
5. DeAndre Jordan ▪ LAC 12.8


Player Efficiency Rating
1. Anthony Davis ▪ NOP 30.8
2. Russell Westbrook ▪ OKC 29.1
3. Stephen Curry ▪ GSW 28.0
4. James Harden ▪ HOU 26.7
5. Chris Paul ▪ LAC 26.0


Lebron's regular season was no where near those guys.

Exactly. Curry clearly outplayed LeBron during the regular season and then finished him off in the Finals.

Jayb587
06-17-2015, 01:18 AM
give me westbrook and a half decent team and ill take my chances. In fact I think a healthy OKC will beat the warriors in the playoffs next year.

More-Than-Most
06-17-2015, 01:20 AM
lol people are saying his performance is overrated... lets say it was... HE WAS STILL BETTER THAN EVERYONE ELSE BY A WIDE MARGIN. Curry had the best year and won a title without being the best player on his team in the finals... That does not make you the best in the league... It makes you the flavor of the month... He needs to show he can play at the best player in the world level for more than one season before he deserves a crown.

James
Durant
Cp3
Davis
Curry...

in that order.

Sadds The Gr8
06-17-2015, 01:20 AM
OH I dont disagree but we both know Basketball is a 2 way sport and no PG comes close to playing the defense that CP3 does while doing what he does offensively... That is what people dont give enough credit to on this site.

I think Curry's defensive improvement this year is also what makes him better now (even though people overrated his D this year IMO by calling him elite). Paul is awesome for playing both sides of the ball and never having to switch off of powerhouse offensive PG's, but I'd take a Legendary shooting defense wrecker along with solid defense, over a very good player on both sides of the ball. PG's now are too tough to "shut down", as long as you're quick enough to stay in front of most guys and compete (like Curry does) you're fine.

goingfor28
06-17-2015, 01:20 AM
Lebron

Jayb587
06-17-2015, 01:20 AM
Exactly. Curry clearly outplayed LeBron during the regular season and then finished him off in the Finals.

LeBron was not the best player this year, curry was better, harden was better, Russell was better, and AD was better. This was the first year bron took games off, and limited his minutes. he also relied on kyrie heavily during the regular season.

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 01:21 AM
OH I dont disagree but we both know Basketball is a 2 way sport and no PG comes close to playing the defense that CP3 does while doing what he does offensively... That is what people dont give enough credit to on this site.

http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?886471-Department-of-Defense-%28CP3-best-perimeter-defender-in-NBA-%29

:rolleyes:

How was LeBron's defense in the Finals?

More-Than-Most
06-17-2015, 01:21 AM
Exactly. Curry clearly outplayed LeBron during the regular season and then finished him off in the Finals.

lol if he finished him off he woulda got at least one mvp vote wouldn't he? HE DIDN'T GET ONE DAMN VOTE.... NOT ONE.

Sadds The Gr8
06-17-2015, 01:21 AM
Exactly. Curry clearly outplayed LeBron during the regular season and then finished him off in the Finals.

the LBJ reg season MVP cries were a joke. He shouldnt have been close.

Redrum187
06-17-2015, 01:23 AM
#1.) Because I never said that.
#2.) It ignores what made them such a superior squad.
#2.) You haven't addressed any of my actual arguments.

I'm sorry then. What are your arguments for Currying being better than LeBron? I must have skipped over it after I read your thread about how Curry won FMVP.

I think one argument was that he was more efficient than LeBron. Yes?

If so, I responded that the more help you have offensively, the easier it is to be more efficient. This is NOT taking away from Curry's mark on the Finals, but it is to say it's more to do with him having the astronomically greater team than it is Curry being a better basketball player than LeBron.

My second counter argument was that this was 6 games. The sample size is so small to label him as superior, even if their teams were on equal footing (which they clearly weren't). Your rebuttal was that the 2 other games in the regular season Curry was superior. As if 2 more games makes the sample size that significant.

More-Than-Most
06-17-2015, 01:23 AM
I think Curry's defensive improvement this year is also what makes him better now (even though people overrated his D this year IMO by calling him elite). Paul is awesome for playing both sides of the ball and never having to switch off of powerhouse offensive PG's, but I'd take a Legendary shooting defense wrecker along with solid defense, over a very good player on both sides of the ball. PG's now are too tough to "shut down", as long as you're quick enough to stay in front of most guys and compete (like Curry does) you're fine.

I dont mind because the argument is there and I am ok with that.... but putting him above guys who have played at this level much longer? That I cant see... Its why I dont have davis as the best either... James/Durant/CP3 have played at this curry level for years... curry has done it for 1 year and honestly people talk about James finals being overrated but up until game 4 curry was being called a choker and playing poorly for best player standards..

Jayb587
06-17-2015, 01:24 AM
the LBJ reg season MVP cries were a joke. He shouldnt have been close.

agreed. he had a few monster games towards the end of the year to try and make a case but he coasted throughout the regular season.

More-Than-Most
06-17-2015, 01:24 AM
http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?886471-Department-of-Defense-%28CP3-best-perimeter-defender-in-NBA-%29

:rolleyes:

How was LeBron's defense in the Finals?

not great but its easy to play defense when you can rest and have a ton of help on both sides of the ball... Expecting him to do what he did on offense and defense is not possible for anyone ever.

Bigbadmoffo
06-17-2015, 01:26 AM
I actually am curious who most people think is the best player in the nba, shoulda done a poll.

I think Lebron was clearly the best player in this series so I don't think this helps currys case (nor does losing fmvp to iggy). With that said I also don't think one series is enough to prove anything especially with such different supporting casts. This is the first year in a while I don't really think Lebron is still the best in the NBA.

I'm not sure there really is one that most would agree with (curry had great year, Lebron was impressive in the finals and has been on top for so long, Durant injured after last year mvp then weak post season, Davis coming up).

Did Wade not beat out Lebron in a finals win? Did Leonard not beat out guys like Duncan and Parker last year. Team focus hard on the best player in the finals and they usually lose because of it. Golden state didn't focus Lebron as much and they won.

bucketss
06-17-2015, 01:26 AM
lebron/durant

davis
cp3
harden
curry

Sadds The Gr8
06-17-2015, 01:29 AM
I dont mind because the argument is there and I am ok with that.... but putting him above guys who have played at this level much longer? That I cant see... Its why I dont have davis as the best either... James/Durant/CP3 have played at this curry level for years... curry has done it for 1 year and honestly people talk about James finals being overrated but up until game 4 curry was being called a choker and playing poorly for best player standards..

Fair enough about doing it for years, but Curry was awesome last year too. I don't see Curry falling off with this great system and players around him. He'll always be an elite offensive player with his shot. As long as he continues to put effort on defense he'll be among the top.

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 01:31 AM
I'm sorry then. What are your arguments for Currying being better than LeBron? I must have skipped over it after I read your thread about how Curry won FMVP.

:laugh: I'm fully willing to eat crow on the FMVP. I honestly didn't think they would give the award to someone who was being intentionally fouled and subbed out. I love how LeBron is so great for dropping 40-10-10 but Iggy is so great for his defense. It can't be both people.


I think one argument was that he was more efficient than LeBron. Yes?

One of many, yes.


If so, I responded that the more help you have offensively, the easier it is to be more efficient. This is NOT taking away from Curry's mark on the Finals, but it is to say it's more to do with him having the astronomically greater team than it is Curry being a better basketball player than LeBron.

Let me ask you a question to fast forward this whole argument, is there anything that Curry could have done in this series to convince you he is better than LeBron?


My second counter argument was that this was 6 games. The sample size is so small to label him as superior, even if their teams were on equal footing (which they clearly weren't). Your rebuttal was that the 2 other games in the regular season Curry was superior. As if 2 more games makes the sample size that significant.

No my response was that over the course of an entire regular season Curry was more valuable and there are multiple factual pieces of evidence that support that.

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 01:33 AM
Fair enough about doing it for years, but Curry was awesome last year too. I don't see Curry falling off with this great system and players around him. He'll always be an elite offensive player with his shot. As long as he continues to put effort on defense he'll be among the top.

This is exactly why this thread is necessary. People act like they couldn't see this coming. He has been slowly and steadily improving and climbing up the ladder from All-Star to All-NBA to MVP and now Best in the World.

More-Than-Most
06-17-2015, 01:35 AM
best in the world doesnt fall 3rd in finals mvp voting to the actual best in the world on the other team and iggy

mngopher35
06-17-2015, 01:53 AM
Did Wade not beat out Lebron in a finals win? Did Leonard not beat out guys like Duncan and Parker last year. Team focus hard on the best player in the finals and they usually lose because of it. Golden state didn't focus Lebron as much and they won.

Neither of the players you mentioned were the primary player to be stopped on their team offensively. Wade definitely played better than James vs. Mavs but they even said they tailored their game plan to make him pass (and he took it to a whole other level of sucking it up). Spurs won with a ton of ball movement and team game. It is different comparing secondary options to primary options and I even stated it is hard to compare with different supporting casts.

Curry and James were clearly the primary focus this series so it is a totally different comparison (you even mentioned this so not sure your point?). Lebron overall played better than Curry and did it with a worse supporting cast and Iggy on him (compared to Delly). This alone doesn't mean Lebron is the better player though as I said, it just doesn't help curry's case. I think there is a case for a few players but Curry might have the best one, it comes down to opinion.

Redrum187
06-17-2015, 02:14 AM
:laugh: I'm fully willing to eat crow on the FMVP. I honestly didn't think they would give the award to someone who was being intentionally fouled and subbed out. I love how LeBron is so great for dropping 40-10-10 but Iggy is so great for his defense. It can't be both people.



One of many, yes.



Let me ask you a question to fast forward this whole argument, is there anything that Curry could have done in this series to convince you he is better than LeBron?



No my response was that over the course of an entire regular season Curry was more valuable and there are multiple factual pieces of evidence that support that.

Are we talking about the "better basketball player" or "the person with the better series?" If it's the better basketball player, he would have to do something outrageous. He didn't even with FMVP though. Even if he did, it's still such a small sample size and LeBron had a better series. If it's could Curry have done anything to prove he had a better series? Absolutely! He would just have to duplicate what James did on better efficiency. I just think a very very very tiny tiny minority will think Curry had a better series than LeBron though.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
06-17-2015, 02:22 AM
I feel like the noticeable difference between LeBron and Curry is that LeBron's a great defender but Curry's really nothing special defensively.

Raps08-09 Champ
06-17-2015, 02:23 AM
I feel like the noticeable difference between LeBron and Curry is that LeBron's a great defender but Curry's really nothing special defensively.

But he chose not to play defense bruh.

IKnowHoops
06-17-2015, 02:25 AM
curry and lebron switch teams and cavs get swept with an average loss of 25 points.

Might be 40

jerellh528
06-17-2015, 02:25 AM
I can't wait to see a healthy Durante next year. I feel like with him out, the NBA was missing it's premier player this season. The season felt a little bit empty honestly.

mngopher35
06-17-2015, 02:27 AM
I feel like the noticeable difference between LeBron and Curry is that LeBron's a great defender but Curry's really nothing special defensively.

No, not really anymore. He can be but he also takes more plays off. I really think they are close overall, both have an amazing impact on the game.

More-Than-Most
06-17-2015, 02:29 AM
:laugh: I'm fully willing to eat crow on the FMVP. I honestly didn't think they would give the award to someone who was being intentionally fouled and subbed out. I love how LeBron is so great for dropping 40-10-10 but Iggy is so great for his defense. It can't be both people.



One of many, yes.



Let me ask you a question to fast forward this whole argument, is there anything that Curry could have done in this series to convince you he is better than LeBron?



No my response was that over the course of an entire regular season Curry was more valuable and there are multiple factual pieces of evidence that support that.

be the best player on the court in at least 2 of the 6 games would have been a good start.

IKnowHoops
06-17-2015, 02:35 AM
Why is it chucking when Iverson or Kobe do it but because LeBron gets 3-4 more apg and 5-6 more rpg it suddenly becomes one of the greatest performances of all-time? And I am STILL waiting for any of you to engage me on LeBron's non-existent defense. He was perfectly content letting Curry carve up his team and set up 4-3's the entire series. Didn't any of you get sick of LeBron on "help" defense watching the Warriors get easy lay-ups/draw fouls at the rim and get wide open 3's?

Because 12/10 is a lot better than 5/5

More-Than-Most
06-17-2015, 02:48 AM
not sure what is more surprising... curry with 7 votes or Durant with 2.

Bruno
06-17-2015, 03:11 AM
not sure what is more surprising... curry with 7 votes or Durant with 2.

it was almost three.

mngopher35
06-17-2015, 03:29 AM
I can't wait to see a healthy Durante next year. I feel like with him out, the NBA was missing it's premier player this season. The season felt a little bit empty honestly.

I think Lebron was still the better player after 13-14 season but it was close and this year might have been Durant. I mean Durant is in his prime moving up and Lebron is on his decline (not huge yet) I can even see saying it's likely he would have been better. The injuries just kind of took him out of the fight unfortunately (which also took westy out of the playoffs), it definitely was a bummer.


not sure what is more surprising... curry with 7 votes or Durant with 2.

Even with what I said above I'm not sure I really think Durant is best right now, just that he could be (due to the injury). It's kind of a wait and see make sure he is back and better, if that happens it is probably him. I think people will choose between Lebron/Curry because they know where they are at, we just watched them finish off great seasons.

jason
06-17-2015, 03:38 AM
How is curry better than CP3? This is the first year where curry was better and he wasnt even that much better than cp3... CP3 plays just as good defensively as he does offensively... Curry does not come close to the defense that CP3 provides and he isnt as good with protecting the ball either. CP3 doesnt score as much but curry does nothing else better than cp3.

You underrate Currys defense. Hes actually good.

Red_Pill
06-17-2015, 03:38 AM
No, not really anymore. He can be but he also takes more plays off. I really think they are close overall, both have an amazing impact on the game.

Steph is useless when his shot isn't going down. And he easily gets frustrated and throws tantrums. Lebron can do it all.

Red_Pill
06-17-2015, 03:39 AM
You underrate Currys defense. Hes actually good.

Average at best.

PhillyFaninLA
06-17-2015, 04:45 AM
LeBron couldn't even shoot 40% from the field. Give me a break. Get over it. Curry got doubled team every possession. If you counted hockey assists he went for like 25ppg / 20apg


So you are counting a second pass to make your point while saying one guy is being double teamed and ignoring that the other guy was double or triple teamed


Good job creating a meaning and balanced counter arguement

Raps08-09 Champ
06-17-2015, 04:54 AM
Considering he lost his 2nd and 3rd options on the court (meaning more defense triple teaming and double teaming him) and had 2 DPOY candidates guarding him in the finals, really surprised Lebrons FG% in the finals only dropped 3% compared to the first 3 rounds.

Raps08-09 Champ
06-17-2015, 04:55 AM
So you are counting a second pass to make your point while saying one guy is being double teamed and ignoring that the other guy was double or triple teamed


Good job creating a meaning and balanced counter arguement

Dont forget the 15 open missed shots per game by the eCavs cast

Gander13SM
06-17-2015, 05:23 AM
1. LeBron James.
2. Kevin Durant
3. Stephen Curry
4. Anthony Davis
5. James Harden


This could change as early as next year. I fully expect Davis to leap frog Steph.

Just my opinion.

Jtirado16
06-17-2015, 05:38 AM
Lebron now.

Durant distant 2nd when healthy.

Curry.

Davis. But as said earlier I expect Davis to move into 2nd. This year

Munkeysuit
06-17-2015, 05:45 AM
Lebron lost that to Durant like last year. So Curry is taking it from Durant.

Oh boy...wow...mind completely blown

Munkeysuit
06-17-2015, 05:50 AM
Lebron has pretty much showed the entire world that he is still on top and no one is even close!
I mean come on Curry? for crying out loud, he didn't even matter till late game 4 and 5 ish resulting in Iggy taking the MVP honors home with him. Curry is not even half as good as Lebron, minus Curry of that Warriors team and they can still make the playoffs, minus Lebron off the Cavs and they will probably be one of the worst teams in the entire league. I am no Curry hater, I love his game and is one of my favorite players to watch! BUT to even mention him in the same breath as LBJ? you are trippin on shrooms.

Raps08-09 Champ
06-17-2015, 06:36 AM
Oh boy...wow...mind completely blown

Durant MVP last year.

:dance:

sammyvine
06-17-2015, 06:42 AM
Lebron is the best but i much prefer to watch Curry in all honesty.

ChitownSports16
06-17-2015, 06:42 AM
Iggy

Bigdaddyburch
06-17-2015, 07:46 AM
LeBron couldn't even shoot 40% from the field. Give me a break. Get over it. Curry got doubled team every possession. If you counted hockey assists he went for like 25ppg / 20apg

Yet he is the first player in history to have the most points rebs and assists in the finals.

ImThatDude
06-17-2015, 07:52 AM
You gotta play defense to even be in consideration for me.

LeBron.

NYKHeart23
06-17-2015, 10:03 AM
To those who think Curry is superior to James, put Curry on the Cavs and James on GSW. GSW would've constanly thrown doubles at Steph (like Cle actually did to him) except all the other poor offensive players on the Cavs wouldn't have made him look nearly as good as, Iggy, Draymond, etc did. I highly doubt it would have gone to six games had their roles been switched.

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 12:32 PM
So you are counting a second pass to make your point while saying one guy is being double teamed and ignoring that the other guy was double or triple teamed
Good job creating a meaning and balanced counter arguement

Do you honestly believe they would benefit equally from the creation of a "hockey assist" stat? I can tell you I've been having this argument all series and it's not close.


Are we talking about the "better basketball player" or "the person with the better series?" If it's the better basketball player, he would have to do something outrageous. He didn't even with FMVP though. Even if he did, it's still such a small sample size and LeBron had a better series. If it's could Curry have done anything to prove he had a better series? Absolutely! He would just have to duplicate what James did on better efficiency. I just think a very very very tiny tiny minority will think Curry had a better series than LeBron though.

I'm having a tough time finding a weakness in Curry's series other than game 2 (a stinker) and most of game 3. It's like he is being penalized for not forcing the action just to get stats. He was playing within a game plan and he played fantastic basketball in all 4 wins with clinching 4th quarter shots in each of the last 3. The fact that he averaged basically 28ppg/7apg on good efficiency in those wins and people still downplay it shows just how good he was for the Warriors.

Jamiecballer
06-17-2015, 12:32 PM
Lebron. then Durant. then Curry. then Davis.

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 12:34 PM
So you are counting a second pass to make your point while saying one guy is being double teamed and ignoring that the other guy was double or triple teamed


Good job creating a meaning and balanced counter arguement


Dont forget the 15 open missed shots per game by the eCavs cast

I'm being accused of losing context but we can ignore Barnes/Iguodala/Green missing insane amounts of open looks throughout the series? Even Klay only had ONE strong game and he's their 2nd best player.

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 12:35 PM
Yet he is the first player in history to have the most points rebs and assists in the finals.

But at what point do all those points become less impressive... when he needs 35 shots to get them?

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 12:37 PM
You gotta play defense to even be in consideration for me.

LeBron.

LeBron's defense in this series was the most insignificant impact I've ever seen him have. They hid him. Curry spent more time guarding Bron than the other way around. And his help defense was constantly being replayed and broadcast for sloppiness and laziness.

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 12:41 PM
So you are counting a second pass to make your point while saying one guy is being double teamed and ignoring that the other guy was double or triple teamed


Good job creating a meaning and balanced counter arguement


To those who think Curry is superior to James, put Curry on the Cavs and James on GSW. GSW would've constanly thrown doubles at Steph (like Cle actually did to him) except all the other poor offensive players on the Cavs wouldn't have made him look nearly as good as, Iggy, Draymond, etc did. I highly doubt it would have gone to six games had their roles been switched.

This argument holds no weight for me whatsoever. It's pure fiction. I can play that game. I think if Steph Curry had to handle the ball and shoot as much as LeBron did he would have had 2-3 games of 50 points or more and they would have taken it 7 games.

lol, please
06-17-2015, 12:45 PM
Steph is useless when his shot isn't going down. And he easily gets frustrated and throws tantrums. Lebron can do it all.
Couldn't be more false

Jamiecballer
06-17-2015, 12:50 PM
But at what point do all those points become less impressive... when he needs 35 shots to get them?

whatever you want to take away for his effectiveness you should be willing to give back for the fact that he was playing with a team of total scrubs who contributed absolutely nothing in this series.

if they won this series we wouldn't be talking about his efficiency at all. we'd be marveling at his performance, as we should.

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 12:54 PM
whatever you want to take away for his effectiveness you should be willing to give back for the fact that he was playing with a team of total scrubs who contributed absolutely nothing in this series.

if they won this series we wouldn't be talking about his efficiency at all. we'd be marveling at his performance, as we should.

But they didn't win? It didn't work. In the first 3 games I had nothing but the highest praise for LeBron. That LeBron went away. People seem to ignore that he started being a lot less aggressive and playing a lot worse in Games 4 and 6. That should and does impact his numbers for the overall series.

still1ballin
06-17-2015, 01:03 PM
Colby.

no ?s askd

NYKnickFanatic
06-17-2015, 01:08 PM
That's why they were all sitting at home watching Steph Curry give his regular season MVP speech and they are all spectators now as Curry wins his first win and Finals MVP.

Premature.

NYKalltheway
06-17-2015, 01:23 PM
Lebron, full stop.

Sadds The Gr8
06-17-2015, 01:49 PM
LeBron couldn't even shoot 40% from the field. Give me a break. Get over it. Curry got doubled team every possession. If you counted hockey assists he went for like 25ppg / 20apg


Finally someone with a pulse who watched the games. How the hell do people think Draymond Green got double digit assists? Iggy and Green were playing 4-3 and taking wide open jump shots. Did Curry care? Did Curry force shots? No he played the right way and picked his spots. The fact that he averaged about 25ppg while being so unselfish is impressive. Not to mention how he clinched each of the last 3 games with big shots in the 4th quarter.
Interesting that Nate Duncan (don't know if u follow or listen to his pod) is saying the exact same thing you're saying about curry. He said curry with a Delly level replacement at sf with the Cavs roster would've scored more efficiently than lbj's Cavs did because of the 4 on 3's he creates.

Hes also praising his secondary asts as well

Vinylman
06-17-2015, 01:51 PM
Lebron and it really isn't that close

AntiG
06-17-2015, 01:51 PM
LeBron easily.

This finals series proved it even more.

mngopher35
06-17-2015, 02:05 PM
I can understand people saying it is still Lebron but I disagree with the idea that it isn't close. He had a better finals series but Curry still had a huge impact as well and had a better overall season. Anyone want to explain why they think there is such a large gap?

Tony_Starks
06-17-2015, 02:09 PM
I can understand people saying it is still Lebron but I disagree with the idea that it isn't close. He had a better finals series but Curry still had a huge impact as well and had a better overall season. Anyone want to explain why they think there is such a large gap?

don't waste your time brother. "Not even close" is the unreasonable language of the dark side.

bucketss
06-17-2015, 02:20 PM
revised list.

lebron/durant
davis
westbrook
curry
cp3
harden

Bigdaddyburch
06-17-2015, 02:22 PM
Yet he is the first player in history to have the most points rebs and assists in the finals.

But at what point do all those points become less impressive... when he needs 35 shots to get them?

If he had someone who could make a basket that number would have been lower. He forced shot because he had to.

ThePlayoffs
06-17-2015, 02:26 PM
I think its only fair to compare players with relativity because everyone plays differently

pacofunk64
06-17-2015, 02:29 PM
LeBron and it's not even debatable. I mean it really isn't.

ThaDubs
06-17-2015, 02:42 PM
Lebron has pretty much showed the entire world that he is still on top and no one is even close!
I mean come on Curry? for crying out loud, he didn't even matter till late game 4 and 5 ish resulting in Iggy taking the MVP honors home with him. Curry is not even half as good as Lebron, minus Curry of that Warriors team and they can still make the playoffs, minus Lebron off the Cavs and they will probably be one of the worst teams in the entire league. I am no Curry hater, I love his game and is one of my favorite players to watch! BUT to even mention him in the same breath as LBJ? you are trippin on shrooms.

Curry was only bad in the game where he went 5/23. The rest of the time he was great, and the way he runs the P&R is the reason we just won a championship. He was certainly the real Finals MVP. LeBron didn't prove **** to me. He shot terribly from the field and rebounded well against a lineup with four guards and an undersized power forward. The only part of his game that really impressed me was his passing, but even that is easier when the entire defense is focused on stopping you. His insane minutes and usage rate inflated his stats further. And let's not forget his absolutely horrendous defense.

sportsfanatic99
06-17-2015, 02:47 PM
Curry was only bad in the game where he went 5/23. The rest of the time he was great, and the way he runs the P&R is the reason we just won a championship. He was certainly the real Finals MVP. LeBron didn't prove **** to me. He shot terribly from the field and rebounded well against a lineup with four guards and an undersized power forward. The only part of his game that really impressed me was his passing, but even that is easier when the entire defense is focused on stopping you. His insane minutes and usage rate inflated his stats further. And let's not forget his absolutely horrendous defense.

nothing curry did impressed me at these Finals. definitely undeserving as a Finals MVP and fittingly, did not win it.

and yes, you are in the minority.

Iggy def was the MVP. Dubs would not have won if Iggy didn't guard Lebron. Green, Barnes, whoever other than Iggy, could not guard Lebron.

Wrigheyes4MVP
06-17-2015, 03:02 PM
1) Lebron
2) Durant
3) Curry
4) CP3
5) AD

After that, I don't know. It gets very complicated and there are a ton of guys who could be argued, but I'd say either Harden or Westbrook. So many other viable options though... guys who don't have the scoring prowess but do other things well like Marc Gasol and Kawhi Leonard. You also have Blake, Wall, Cousins, Dwight Howard, LMA, Carmelo, Wade, Klay, Conley, and many others. So yeah, I'm not sure how to rank them. Hell, I'll even throw Duncan in the mix even at his age. I just think the top 5 is the top 5 pretty clearly in my mind. All are efficient, can score, and do other things for their team at a high level.

naps
06-17-2015, 03:09 PM
LeBron, by a landslide. Gap is bigger than ever.

D-Leethal
06-17-2015, 03:11 PM
LeBron, by a landslide. Gap is bigger than ever.

This, until KD gets back nobody is in LeBron's league.

Signed,

A LeBron Hater

Wrigheyes4MVP
06-17-2015, 03:15 PM
Right now Curry is being overrated and underrated at the same time. No chance has he surpassed a healthy Durant or Lebron, but to say he is not even a top 5 player is ridiculous. I think its fair to say he has surpassed CP3 (who hasn't declined yet), and Anthony Davis is rising fast, but Curry deserves the #3 spot right now. Unbelievable shooter, all around player, ball handling, court vision, finishing around the rim, and a solid defender with quick hands/feet. He is awesome and deserves the distinction of being recognized as a top 5 if not top 3 player in the world. But, he isn't better than Lebron or a healthy Durant. Be realistic.

Jamiecballer
06-17-2015, 03:17 PM
But they didn't win? It didn't work. In the first 3 games I had nothing but the highest praise for LeBron. That LeBron went away. People seem to ignore that he started being a lot less aggressive and playing a lot worse in Games 4 and 6. That should and does impact his numbers for the overall series.

i honestly didn't see it that way. he was more of a facilitator in later games, specifically 6. but that doesn't mean 'worse' as you've termed it. shumpert/smith/delladova/jones shot a combined 7/29 in game six. lebron did an incredible job getting them looks over and over and they just straight up stunk up the joint. if his players don't choke so bad we aren't talking about him playing 'worse', we are praising him for his versatility.

ThaDubs
06-17-2015, 03:33 PM
lol it was only evident in the last two games when they started to hash out even more on Curry. They didn't double team as often nor as evident in the first 4 games than what they did in the last two games.

You are absolutely wrong. You are trying to be specific to make it sound like you know what you're talking about. Curry did not come around a screen the entire series where he didn't get trapped. That would make no sense from a coaching standpoint. Why would you let the greatest shooter of all time come around a pick without a trap?

[quote]You're a homer and you're blinded by it. Its why all the experts/voters picked Iggy over Curry right - not even one vote for curry. Heck - they even picked Lebron over Curry.

I don't care who they voted for. Curry was the Warriors' best player by a ****ing LANDSLIDE not only in the Finals, but in the playoffs.


i like how i said what he did was unimpressive and you try to get an insult in there. LOL shows your homerism.

No, I just wanted to point out that your lack of appreciation for what Steph does proves you're ignorant.

sportsfanatic99
06-17-2015, 03:44 PM
You are absolutely wrong. You are trying to be specific to make it sound like you know what you're talking about. Curry did not come around a screen the entire series where he didn't get trapped. That would make no sense from a coaching standpoint. Why would you let the greatest shooter of all time come around a pick without a trap?

he didn't get double teamed nor trapped as much in the first few games - he was guarded single coverage by thompson on the PnR or he passed off too early or too late in the first few games. GSW didn't screen hard enough to get Curry free, as evident by the play of Delly playing him straight up for the first 3-4 games - almost without help.



I don't care who they voted for. Curry was the Warriors' best player by a ****ing LANDSLIDE not only in the Finals, but in the playoffs.

in the playoffs, sure. he certainly was not the most important player in the Finals. Iggy is his name. Iggy's offense in the last two games, albeit passes from Curry's pass out of the double team trap, was great. without Iggy, we'd probably talking about how Curry choked and how the best team in the NBA lost to the much short-handed Cleveland Cavaliers. This complimented his defense on Lebron throughout the series.




No, I just wanted to point out that your lack of appreciation for what Steph does proves you're ignorant.

Steph was great in the playoffs. buahaha i know that. i'm not ignorant. but his play in the finals - compared to his play in the regular season and playoffs - was not as great, in my opinion.

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 03:45 PM
LeBron couldn't even shoot 40% from the field. Give me a break. Get over it. Curry got doubled team every possession. If you counted hockey assists he went for like 25ppg / 20apg


Finally someone with a pulse who watched the games. How the hell do people think Draymond Green got double digit assists? Iggy and Green were playing 4-3 and taking wide open jump shots. Did Curry care? Did Curry force shots? No he played the right way and picked his spots. The fact that he averaged about 25ppg while being so unselfish is impressive. Not to mention how he clinched each of the last 3 games with big shots in the 4th quarter.
Interesting that Nate Duncan (don't know if u follow or listen to his pod) is saying the exact same thing you're saying about curry. He said curry with a Delly level replacement at sf with the Cavs roster would've scored more efficiently than lbj's Cavs did because of the 4 on 3's he creates.

Hes also praising his secondary asts as well

No but it sounds like I check out his podcast. I am surprised more people don't appreciate those secondary assists.

lol, please
06-17-2015, 03:48 PM
[QUOTE=sportsfanatic99;30061699]lol it was only evident in the last two games when they started to hash out even more on Curry. They didn't double team as often nor as evident in the first 4 games than what they did in the last two games.

You are absolutely wrong. You are trying to be specific to make it sound like you know what you're talking about. Curry did not come around a screen the entire series where he didn't get trapped. That would make no sense from a coaching standpoint. Why would you let the greatest shooter of all time come around a pick without a trap?



I don't care who they voted for. Curry was the Warriors' best player by a ****ing LANDSLIDE not only in the Finals, but in the playoffs.



No, I just wanted to point out that your lack of appreciation for what Steph does proves you're ignorant.

:clap:

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 03:58 PM
Yet he is the first player in history to have the most points rebs and assists in the finals.

But at what point do all those points become less impressive... when he needs 35 shots to get them?

If he had someone who could make a basket that number would have been lower. He forced shot because he had to.

But that is the point if he is the best player in the world even when he forces shots he should be able to shoot over 40% from the field, over 31% from 3, and over 70% from the ft line. He did none of those things. He didnt even crack 50% in any game. His jumper is nowhere near as deadly as it was in past seasons. Another problem is no one is willing to address the point I have made repeatedly that Lebron was not as aggressive. Look at the FT attempts. If he was tired that is another poor excuse for the best player in the world. If he was settling that proves my point even more. Either way it is not good.

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 04:00 PM
But they didn't win? It didn't work. In the first 3 games I had nothing but the highest praise for LeBron. That LeBron went away. People seem to ignore that he started being a lot less aggressive and playing a lot worse in Games 4 and 6. That should and does impact his numbers for the overall series.

i honestly didn't see it that way. he was more of a facilitator in later games, specifically 6. but that doesn't mean 'worse' as you've termed it. shumpert/smith/delladova/jones shot a combined 7/29 in game six. lebron did an incredible job getting them looks over and over and they just straight up stunk up the joint. if his players don't choke so bad we aren't talking about him playing 'worse', we are praising him for his versatility.

check my most recent post for a reply.

JordansBulls
06-17-2015, 04:01 PM
LeBron, by a landslide. Gap is bigger than ever.

Curry had the best numbers on the season clearly, he and Harden.

Value Over Replacement Player
1. Stephen Curry ▪ GSW 7.9
2. James Harden ▪ HOU 7.8
3. Russell Westbrook ▪ OKC 7.6
4. Chris Paul ▪ LAC 6.9
5. LeBron James ▪ CLE 5.9


Box Plus/Minus
1. Russell Westbrook ▪ OKC 11.0
2. Stephen Curry ▪ GSW 9.9
3. James Harden ▪ HOU 8.4
4. Chris Paul ▪ LAC 7.5
5. LeBron James ▪ CLE 7.4


Win Shares Per 48 Minutes
1. Stephen Curry ▪ GSW .288
2. Anthony Davis ▪ NOP .274
3. Chris Paul ▪ LAC .270
4. James Harden ▪ HOU .265
5. Russell Westbrook ▪ OKC .222


Win Shares
1. James Harden ▪ HOU 16.4
2. Chris Paul ▪ LAC 16.1
3. Stephen Curry ▪ GSW 15.7
4. Anthony Davis ▪ NOP 14.0
5. DeAndre Jordan ▪ LAC 12.8


Player Efficiency Rating
1. Anthony Davis ▪ NOP 30.8
2. Russell Westbrook ▪ OKC 29.1
3. Stephen Curry ▪ GSW 28.0
4. James Harden ▪ HOU 26.7
5. Chris Paul ▪ LAC 26.0


Lebron's regular season was no where near those guys.
Even in the playoffs overall he was about equal to Curry. Sure he was a little better in the finals though but he still shot less than 40% in the series and shot less than 42% FG for the entire playoffs.

Jamiecballer
06-17-2015, 04:03 PM
check my most recent post for a reply.

i'm not sure which post you are referring to or how it addresses my post in any way

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 04:06 PM
check my most recent post for a reply.

i'm not sure which post you are referring to or how it addresses my post in any way

Another problem is no one is willing to address the point I have made repeatedly that Lebron was not as aggressive. Look at the FT attempts. If he was tired that is another poor excuse for the best player in the world. If he was settling that proves my point even more. Either way it is not good.

Sadds The Gr8
06-17-2015, 04:07 PM
No but it sounds like I check out his podcast. I am surprised more people don't appreciate those secondary assists.

He's probably my favourite analyst/podcaster now next to Zach Lowe. He's a really good in-game tweeter (if you follow sports on twitter) and gives great insight. You'd really like him

jerellh528
06-17-2015, 04:08 PM
Curry had the best numbers on the season clearly, he and Harden.

Value Over Replacement Player
1. Stephen Curry ▪ GSW 7.9
2. James Harden ▪ HOU 7.8
3. Russell Westbrook ▪ OKC 7.6
4. Chris Paul ▪ LAC 6.9
5. LeBron James ▪ CLE 5.9


Box Plus/Minus
1. Russell Westbrook ▪ OKC 11.0
2. Stephen Curry ▪ GSW 9.9
3. James Harden ▪ HOU 8.4
4. Chris Paul ▪ LAC 7.5
5. LeBron James ▪ CLE 7.4


Win Shares Per 48 Minutes
1. Stephen Curry ▪ GSW .288
2. Anthony Davis ▪ NOP .274
3. Chris Paul ▪ LAC .270
4. James Harden ▪ HOU .265
5. Russell Westbrook ▪ OKC .222


Win Shares
1. James Harden ▪ HOU 16.4
2. Chris Paul ▪ LAC 16.1
3. Stephen Curry ▪ GSW 15.7
4. Anthony Davis ▪ NOP 14.0
5. DeAndre Jordan ▪ LAC 12.8


Player Efficiency Rating
1. Anthony Davis ▪ NOP 30.8
2. Russell Westbrook ▪ OKC 29.1
3. Stephen Curry ▪ GSW 28.0
4. James Harden ▪ HOU 26.7
5. Chris Paul ▪ LAC 26.0


Lebron's regular season was no where near those guys.
Even in the playoffs overall he was about equal to Curry. Sure he was a little better in the finals though but he still shot less than 40% in the series and shot less than 42% FG for the entire playoffs.

Yea, I'm perfectly fine with people saying lebron is the leagues best player, at least until we see KD on an NBA court again. But for those who say it isn't close, that opinion is simply preposterous and downplays what other great players are doin these days. Just filling their own minds with fairy tales. There's a handful of players in the same tier of player as James now, he's no longer heads n shoulders above every player, and hasn't been since before last year.

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 04:11 PM
No but it sounds like I check out his podcast. I am surprised more people don't appreciate those secondary assists.

He's probably my favourite analyst/podcaster now next to Zach Lowe. He's a really good in-game tweeter (if you follow sports on twitter) and gives great insight. You'd really like him

Thanks. Will check him out and get back to you.

ThaDubs
06-17-2015, 04:52 PM
he didn't get double teamed nor trapped as much in the first few games - he was guarded single coverage by thompson on the PnR or he passed off too early or too late in the first few games. GSW didn't screen hard enough to get Curry free, as evident by the play of Delly playing him straight up for the first 3-4 games - almost without help.



in the playoffs, sure. he certainly was not the most important player in the Finals. Iggy is his name. Iggy's offense in the last two games, albeit passes from Curry's pass out of the double team trap, was great. without Iggy, we'd probably talking about how Curry choked and how the best team in the NBA lost to the much short-handed Cleveland Cavaliers. This complimented his defense on Lebron throughout the series.





Steph was great in the playoffs. buahaha i know that. i'm not ignorant. but his play in the finals - compared to his play in the regular season and playoffs - was not as great, in my opinion.

He averaged 26, 5, and 6 on 44/39/80-something %. How is that not great? That is objectively great. And Finals MVP worthy. Iggy was not the Warriors' most important player. He won Finals MVP because of Steph.

If the the Warriors lost we'd be talking about how Klay choked. Steph was terrific, and performed quite a bit better than the Finals MVP did.

TylerSL
06-17-2015, 05:05 PM
Is this a joke?

MDD
06-17-2015, 05:05 PM
1.lebron
2.Anthony Davis
3.Durant
4.James Harden
5.Curry
6.Westbrook
7.Blake Griffin
8.John Wall
9.Chris Paul
10.Demarcus Cousins
11.Jimmy Butler
12.Derrick Rose
13.Lamarcus
14.dwayne Wade
15.Klay Thompson
16.Dwight Howard
17.Carmelo Anthony
18.Paul George
19.Damian Lilliard
20.Kyrie Irving
.........Ect.

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 05:15 PM
1.lebron
2.Anthony Davis
3.Durant
4.James Harden
5.Curry
6.Westbrook
7.Blake Griffin
8.John Wall
9.Chris Paul
10.Demarcus Cousins
11.Jimmy Butler
12.Derrick Rose
13.Lamarcus
14.dwayne Wade
15.Klay Thompson
16.Dwight Howard
17.Carmelo Anthony
18.Paul George
19.Damian Lilliard
20.Kyrie Irving
.........Ect.

It is posts like this that make me lol. List completely wrong. No explanation. And gave way too much random info. For example, how is harden better than Curry when Steph crushed the Rockets?

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 05:17 PM
Is this a joke?

Dead serious. I am taking the MVP and the champ and you are taking the guy who shot about 39% from the field. The only joke is people that don't realize Curry is at his peak and Lebron is declining.

mngopher35
06-17-2015, 05:18 PM
But that is the point if he is the best player in the world even when he forces shots he should be able to shoot over 40% from the field, over 31% from 3, and over 70% from the ft line. He did none of those things. He didnt even crack 50% in any game. His jumper is nowhere near as deadly as it was in past seasons. Another problem is no one is willing to address the point I have made repeatedly that Lebron was not as aggressive. Look at the FT attempts. If he was tired that is another poor excuse for the best player in the world. If he was settling that proves my point even more. Either way it is not good.

I think you are focused too much on just shooting efficiency, Lebron overall had the same ortg as Curry for the series so he wasn't quite as bad overall with his efficiency. I do agree that Lebron wasn't aggressive the entire time but I also don't think anyone out there was more aggressive than he was this series. When you factor everything in (teammates, his work load, passing, rebounding) I think it helps make up for the poor shooting easily.

In fact I think that a player some people considered to be the best before Lebron had a pretty similar scoring efficiency in the finals so I disagree with the first statement completely. That was with more support, not being forced into the same volume, and not adding the other value Lebron brings via rebounding and passing.

KnicksorBust
06-17-2015, 06:02 PM
But that is the point if he is the best player in the world even when he forces shots he should be able to shoot over 40% from the field, over 31% from 3, and over 70% from the ft line. He did none of those things. He didnt even crack 50% in any game. His jumper is nowhere near as deadly as it was in past seasons. Another problem is no one is willing to address the point I have made repeatedly that Lebron was not as aggressive. Look at the FT attempts. If he was tired that is another poor excuse for the best player in the world. If he was settling that proves my point even more. Either way it is not good.

I think you are focused too much on just shooting efficiency, Lebron overall had the same ortg as Curry for the series so he wasn't quite as bad overall with his efficiency. I do agree that Lebron wasn't aggressive the entire time but I also don't think anyone out there was more aggressive than he was this series. When you factor everything in (teammates, his work load, passing, rebounding) I think it helps make up for the poor shooting easily.

In fact I think that a player some people considered to be the best before Lebron had a pretty similar scoring efficiency in the finals so I disagree with the first statement completely. That was with more support, not being forced into the same volume, and not adding the other value Lebron brings via rebounding and passing.

Most people aren't focused on it enough. They look at the raw stats and the teammates and its an automatic response.

Do you think Curry should have been more aggressive?

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-17-2015, 06:02 PM
Curry/Davis/Durant

lol, please
06-17-2015, 06:08 PM
Curry/Davis/Durant
:clap:

mngopher35
06-17-2015, 06:16 PM
Most people aren't focused on it enough. They look at the raw stats and the teammates and its an automatic response.

Do you think Curry should have been more aggressive?

At times yes but there were many times they were just using curry off of a pick to set up the offense due to how cavs were playing it. Many times Lebron had iggy on him on the perimeter and due to tt/moz there was at least one defender in the paint to meet him as well. No one is going to be able to be as aggressive as they like when the defense is so focused on them. Lebron was the most aggressive player and his team also probably still needed him to be more aggressive, both can be true.

I am not sure about how much people are focused on his shooting, I see a ton both ways. Overall if you are going to use just that to say he wasn't the best player in the series (or world) it is too far. On the other hand those basic stats (pts/reb/ast) don't make it the best finals performance ever either.

IKnowHoops
06-17-2015, 06:23 PM
Yea, I'm perfectly fine with people saying lebron is the leagues best player, at least until we see KD on an NBA court again. But for those who say it isn't close, that opinion is simply preposterous and downplays what other great players are doin these days. Just filling their own minds with fairy tales. There's a handful of players in the same tier of player as James now, he's no longer heads n shoulders above every player, and hasn't been since before last year.

Glad to see that you at least knew this to be true at one time.

Raps08-09 Champ
06-17-2015, 06:27 PM
It is posts like this that make me lol. List completely wrong. No explanation. And gave way too much random info. For example, how is harden better than Curry when Steph crushed the Rockets?

Same reason how you have better players on worse teams all the time.

IKnowHoops
06-17-2015, 06:30 PM
[QUOTE=sportsfanatic99;30061791]he didn't get double teamed nor trapped as much in the first few games - he was guarded single coverage by thompson on the PnR or he passed off too early or too late in the first few games. GSW didn't screen hard enough to get Curry free, as evident by the play of Delly playing him straight up for the first 3-4 games - almost without help.



in the playoffs, sure. he certainly was not the most important player in the Finals. Iggy is his name. Iggy's offense in the last two games, albeit passes from Curry's pass out of the double team trap, was great. without Iggy, we'd probably talking about how Curry choked and how the best team in the NBA lost to the much short-handed Cleveland Cavaliers. This complimented his defense on Lebron throughout the series.






He averaged 26, 5, and 6 on 44/39/80-something %. How is that not great? That is objectively great. And Finals MVP worthy. Iggy was not the Warriors' most important player. He won Finals MVP because of Steph.

If the the Warriors lost we'd be talking about how Klay choked. Steph was terrific, and performed quite a bit better than the Finals MVP did.

Hey I feel ya, Lebron's finals last year against the Spurs...he was statistically better than curry in ever category, yet he was "shut down" some how. Unless you play the Six best games of your career, your gonna be unfairly judged as the teams superstar in the finals, because kids have vivid memories of Jordan averaging 60 pts per game in the finals.

jerellh528
06-17-2015, 07:15 PM
Glad to see that you at least knew this to be true at one time.

Yeah, from 11-13

jason
06-17-2015, 07:18 PM
Right now Curry is being overrated and underrated at the same time. No chance has he surpassed a healthy Durant or Lebron, but to say he is not even a top 5 player is ridiculous. I think its fair to say he has surpassed CP3 (who hasn't declined yet), and Anthony Davis is rising fast, but Curry deserves the #3 spot right now. Unbelievable shooter, all around player, ball handling, court vision, finishing around the rim, and a solid defender with quick hands/feet. He is awesome and deserves the distinction of being recognized as a top 5 if not top 3 player in the world. But, he isn't better than Lebron or a healthy Durant. Be realistic.

Great post. I could understand trying to make a case for CP3 but for Westbrook? Really?

More-Than-Most
06-17-2015, 10:41 PM
I have hope in PSD again with how insane the voting is. I have 0 issue with people voting for durant either... I can live with that... But curry/harden please no... They arent even better than CP3.

Chronz
06-17-2015, 11:38 PM
Most people aren't focused on it enough. They look at the raw stats and the teammates and its an automatic response.

Do you think Curry should have been more aggressive?
He looked beyond the raw stats tho. Not seeing ur rebuttal

KnicksorBust
02-25-2016, 12:58 PM
Throwback Thursday to when only 13% of people realized how good Curry was...

Alayla
02-25-2016, 01:07 PM
For me it goes Davis/Curry/Lebron/Westbrook/Durant/CP3 No one after that even matters

Alayla
02-25-2016, 01:10 PM
Throwback Thursday to when only 13% of people realized how good Curry was...

Curry is amazing but frankly people are sick of hearing about him especially in this all time great argument stuff i think how good of a team curry has around him is being ignored he isnt the best by this inarugable long shot like people are prattling on about. That being said at this pace he will finish as the best shooter of all time.

Tony_Starks
02-25-2016, 01:30 PM
Throwback Thursday to when only 13% of people realized how good Curry was...


Crazy man. People are sheep and just go with the name they know.

It's like voting for Bush

Chromehounds
02-25-2016, 01:31 PM
Two things can be equally right, why not look at why Curry's teammates are wide open? Also, you can't compare a player through his physical ability alone. The value of greatness is how he makes players around him better, his talent included. With that said, yes, in the end most will only look at how many Rings you have.
Fantasy Island, if I have a choice to pick a player to start a team with, I would pick Curry over LeRun.

mngopher35
02-25-2016, 03:05 PM
Throwback Thursday to when only 13% of people realized how good Curry was...

Why do you come to that conclusion? This was asked based off last season right after Lebron was the best player in the finals and lead a poor finals cast quite well (gaining more fmvp votes despite being on losing team). Since Lebron had been the best player in the league for so long and still showed he could finish the year as best many people, rightfully so, would have still called him the best player in the league. I would have voted for Lebron as well at that moment despite seeing Curry was clearly coming into his own. Has nothing to do with not seeing Curry as a great player but more to do with basing the opinion on what we had just seen (while accounting for the past as well). This is like saying people who didn't have Lebron as the best p[layer in the league around 2008 didn't see his greatness. Maybe they just had a slightly different opinion on the timeline instead of not seeing it at all...

There was another thread early this year on the topic and I said I had Curry as the best player in the league because he was dominating AND I thought come playoffs he would continue to be that this time around. So based off last year I still would say Lebron was the better player but coming into this season even extremely early gave credit to Curry for making it a close debate last year and improving while Lebron will likely be declining a bit more.

KnicksorBust
02-25-2016, 03:09 PM
For me it goes Davis/Curry/Lebron/Westbrook/Durant/CP3 No one after that even matters

I hope that's not in order. :) If you are using a tier system then I actually basically agree with you.


Curry is amazing but frankly people are sick of hearing about him especially in this all time great argument stuff i think how good of a team curry has around him is being ignored he isnt the best by this inarugable long shot like people are prattling on about. That being said at this pace he will finish as the best shooter of all time.

Watching him is basketball at it's most fun. He's absolutely dominating the league and doing unprecedented things. It's Jordan in the 90s. It's Shaq in the early 2000s. It's Kobe in the mid 2000s. It's LeBron from 2010-2015 and Curry took the torch last year and is running with it. Get on board and enjoy the ride.

KnicksorBust
02-25-2016, 03:12 PM
Crazy man. People are sheep and just go with the name they know.

It's like voting for Bush

And in both cases the sheep lost bad. :laugh:

KnicksorBust
02-25-2016, 03:20 PM
Why do you come to that conclusion? This was asked based off last season right after Lebron was the best player in the finals and lead a poor finals cast quite well (gaining more fmvp votes despite being on losing team).

False premise. LeBron wasn't the best player last season during the regular season or the playoffs.


Since Lebron had been the best player in the league for so long and still showed he could finish the year as best many people, rightfully so, would have still called him the best player in the league. I would have voted for Lebron as well at that moment despite seeing Curry was clearly coming into his own. Has nothing to do with not seeing Curry as a great player but more to do with basing the opinion on what we had just seen (while accounting for the past as well). This is like saying people who didn't have Lebron as the best p[layer in the league around 2008 didn't see his greatness. Maybe they just had a slightly different opinion on the timeline instead of not seeing it at all...
There was another thread early this year on the topic and I said I had Curry as the best player in the league because he was dominating

But those people were proven wrong as well. There is a willful neglect to pass the torch by some people and Curry proved it last year. The 75% of people who put LeBron were clearly proven wrong when this NBA Season started. Your suggestion that "best player" flipped earlier this season after some random game when Curry was dominating is far more arbitrary.


AND I thought come playoffs he would continue to be that this time around.

And I thought that come this regular season he would continue... which he has. That is the whole point.


So based off last year I still would say Lebron was the better player but coming into this season even extremely early gave credit to Curry for making it a close debate last year and improving while Lebron will likely be declining a bit more.

But nothing about last season supports the idea that LeBron was still the best. Curry played better in the regular season. Significantly. Curry played better in the post-season. Curry played better in the playoffs. Curry's team won in the Finals. LeBron went ghost. Curry stepped up and hit big 4th quarter shots. It was clear as day and only now are people forced to admit Curry is the best because he is having a historic season that has the potential to go down as the greatest single season in NBA History. Gotta love it!!!

mngopher35
02-25-2016, 03:29 PM
How can they be proven wrong when the season starts if this was based off RIGHT NOW back in June (meaning based off last seasons performance not this current one).

Also while I agree he was better in the regular season I am of the belief that younger players expend more energy through the season while older declining players like Lebron tend to save it for the playoffs. The reason he is considered the best is because he carried a poor team within 2 games of the finals and outperformed Curry in said head to head series. If a player considered the best for a long time also finishes the season with the best individual performance that seems like a pretty solid reason to keep him at 1. LOL at saying Lebron went ghost in the finals, of course GS won with Klay/Green/FMVP Iggy compared to Delly, Moz, TT, JR. The team was clearly outmatched yet overperformed to many which is why Lebron got more FMVP votes than Curry.

I gotta run but Ill be around later to reply more.

Scoots
02-25-2016, 03:33 PM
Heard on the radio I think that the NBA 2k guys ran simulations and have a problem where the real Curry is better than the video game Curry and they don't have any more room in their parameters to make him better.

Curry's season is literally causing the video game creators to re-write part of their game and (this one will likely piss off the rest of the shooters in the NBA) maybe have to lower the rest of the players scores because there is a new 100.

Alayla
02-25-2016, 03:51 PM
I hope that's not in order. :) If you are using a tier system then I actually basically agree with you.



Watching him is basketball at it's most fun. He's absolutely dominating the league and doing unprecedented things. It's Jordan in the 90s. It's Shaq in the early 2000s. It's Kobe in the mid 2000s. It's LeBron from 2010-2015 and Curry took the torch last year and is running with it. Get on board and enjoy the ride.

If you think i'm late to the party your late to my posts Ive been calling for curry to be a dominate player since the days the narrative on him was he has glass ankles and will never be good. As for my list yeah it is more of a Tier thing alot of those places are interchangeable depending on what your looking for on your team and why. That's just the nature of basketball imo FIT is a really underrated thing in this game right now.

KnicksorBust
02-25-2016, 03:54 PM
How can they be proven wrong when the season starts if this was based off RIGHT NOW back in June (meaning based off last seasons performance not this current one).

Because if you were the best player in June then you will remind the world when you stop on the court in October/November. Curry was playing better than him at the start of the season last year but they were serving different roles. When the best player title was on the line. Curry took him it from him on the biggest stage of them all. When do you believe Curry became the best player if not the Finals? I said this in my last post. Was it the 4th game of the season? The 8th game? The 11th game? It doesn't flip on a random regular season game.


Also while I agree he was better in the regular season I am of the belief that younger players expend more energy through the season while older declining players like Lebron tend to save it for the playoffs.

I agree with this but I don't think this proves LeBron is better than Curry.


The reason he is considered the best is because he carried a poor team within 2 games of the finals and outperformed Curry in said head to head series. If a player considered the best for a long time also finishes the season with the best individual performance that seems like a pretty solid reason to keep him at 1.

This argument is great for you because over time it is only going to get harder and harder for people to remember the specifics. The reality is that the series was not as close as people make it out to be. By Game 4 the Warriors had completely figured the Cavs out. 2 Blowout wins for the Warriors with Curry outplaying LeBron in all 3 of those last wins. Curry had 1 team killing game. LeBron had 3.


LOL at saying Lebron went ghost in the finals,

He shot 35-89 over those last 3 games. I watched every minute It was ugly. How can you win with your best player shooting 7-22 from the field? How can you win with your best player shooting 2-10 from 3pt in the clinching game? Where his defense? He got hidden the entire series. Didn't even lock any of their top scorers up. Never switched on to Curry like he did Rose. Curry guarded LeBron on switches more than the other way around. He let the Cavs keep trapping 30 feet from the rim. Let Curry make the pinpoint pass to Draymond, Iggy, even David Lee and let the Warriors carve them up playing 4 on 3 basketball. He chucked his way to +30 points and played lackluster defense. He also was way less aggressive in games 4-5-6 and was missing easy shots at the rim. I'm all for "LeBron is Hero" after Game 3. But that storyline came to an end in Game 4 and a screeching halt after games 5 and 6.


of course GS won with Klay/Green/FMVP Iggy compared to Delly, Moz, TT, JR. The team was clearly outmatched yet overperformed to many which is why Lebron got more FMVP votes than Curry.

Who would you have given FMVP and why? That will explain a lot.


I gotta run but Ill be around later to reply more.

Sounds good. :)

Bostonjorge
02-25-2016, 05:06 PM
Curry and it's not even close. The gap between curry and the second best players is equal to cavs and thee second best east team this year.

Curry put James and Leonard on skates when they tried to check him one on one. Curry took their souls away.

Hawkeye15
02-25-2016, 05:08 PM
I voted LeBron at the beginning of this season, for the very reason LeBron didn't get any voted in 08-09', even after he was clearly the best player in the game the season prior. Need to see more man.

Well, at 50-5, and a runaway MVP season, I have seen enough. If the vote was taken again, obviously I go with Curry.

CHANGO
02-25-2016, 05:28 PM
Saying that Curry outplayed Lebron in the Finals is lolworthy, especially when the second best player on the Cavs was JR, and the starting PG friking Delly. LMAO

I also voted Lebron as the best player, because he dominated on those playoffs.

valade16
02-25-2016, 05:53 PM
I get the argument that LeBron shot badly in the Finals, but really who else in Cleveland was going to pick up the slack? Here is the TS% for all the perimeter players with Bron:

LeBron .477%

J. Jones .482%
Smith .424%
Shump .397%
Delly .389%


Here was the 3PT % of his teammates:

LeBron 31.0%

Shump 32.0%
J. Jones 30.8%
Smith 29.4%
Delly 23.1%


So I ask you, who on the team was playing well? Who was shooting well? The only guys who were efficient on offense were Mozgov and TT and that's mainly because LeBron was feeding them assists at the basket against GS' smaller lineup and they were getting obliterated on the other end by it.

LeBron's AST% was 52.7%. His USG% was an insane 40.8% and despite those his TO% was only 8.5%. That's nothing short of incredible.

I mean look at game 6, yes LeBron shot badly (13/33 FG and 2/10 3PT), but here were his teammates:

Smith 5/15 FG | 4/9 3PT
Shump 1/6 FG | 0/3 3PT
J. Jones 1/5 FG | 0/4 3PT
Delly 0/3 FG

The only guy who shot semi decent was JR Smith because of the 3's (and even then his TS% was .513 on the game). Again, the only effective scorers were Mozgov and TT thanks to getting fed by LeBron, and they were getting destroyed on the other end of the court.

Let's look at Game 6:

LeBron 15/34 FG | 3/8 3pt
Smith 5/15 FG | 4/14 3pt
Shump 3/9 FG | 3/6 3pt
Delly 2/9 FG | 1/5 3pt
J. Jones 0/1 FG | 0/1 3pt

Again, the only guy who was effective besides Bron was TT.

Is it any surprise when we get to Game 4 we see more of the same?

LeBron 7/22 FG | 1/4 3pt
Delly 3/14 FG | 2/9 3pt
Smith 2/12 FG | 0/8 3pt
Shump 2/9 FG | 1/5 3pt
J. Jones 0/3 FG | 0/3 3pt


If you want to criticize LeBron for shooting bad fine, he needed to shoot better. But who on the team was helping him out?

CHANGO
02-25-2016, 06:11 PM
I get the argument that LeBron shot badly in the Finals, but really who else in Cleveland was going to pick up the slack? Here is the TS% for all the perimeter players with Bron:

LeBron .477%

J. Jones .482%
Smith .424%
Shump .397%
Delly .389%


Here was the 3PT % of his teammates:

LeBron 31.0%

Shump 32.0%
J. Jones 30.8%
Smith 29.4%
Delly 23.1%


So I ask you, who on the team was playing well? Who was shooting well? The only guys who were efficient on offense were Mozgov and TT and that's mainly because LeBron was feeding them assists at the basket against GS' smaller lineup and they were getting obliterated on the other end by it.

LeBron's AST% was 52.7%. His USG% was an insane 40.8% and despite those his TO% was only 8.5%. That's nothing short of incredible.

I mean look at game 6, yes LeBron shot badly (13/33 FG and 2/10 3PT), but here were his teammates:

Smith 5/15 FG | 4/9 3PT
Shump 1/6 FG | 0/3 3PT
J. Jones 1/5 FG | 0/4 3PT
Delly 0/3 FG

The only guy who shot semi decent was JR Smith because of the 3's (and even then his TS% was .513 on the game). Again, the only effective scorers were Mozgov and TT thanks to getting fed by LeBron, and they were getting destroyed on the other end of the court.

Let's look at Game 6:

LeBron 15/34 FG | 3/8 3pt
Smith 5/15 FG | 4/14 3pt
Shump 3/9 FG | 3/6 3pt
Delly 2/9 FG | 1/5 3pt
J. Jones 0/1 FG | 0/1 3pt

Again, the only guy who was effective besides Bron was TT.

Is it any surprise when we get to Game 4 we see more of the same?

LeBron 7/22 FG | 1/4 3pt
Delly 3/14 FG | 2/9 3pt
Smith 2/12 FG | 0/8 3pt
Shump 2/9 FG | 1/5 3pt
J. Jones 0/3 FG | 0/3 3pt


If you want to criticize LeBron for shooting bad fine, he needed to shoot better. But who on the team was helping him out?

That's the only thing they have to criticize him, it's either that or he lost. That's it. Let's not forget that he had to play PG because Delly can't dribble to save his life. People don't look at the context, that's the important part.

Also let's put the entire averages.
35.8ppg, 13.3rpg, 8.8apg, 1.3spg (in red so you can see clear)

He led the Cavs in ppg, rpg and apg, and felt .5 short in spg (Shumpert with 1.8spg).
His second best scorer(not counting Kyrie who played 1 game) was Mozgov with 14ppg, that's 21.8ppg less than Lebron.
The second best apg was 2.7apg by Delly that's 6.1 less apg than Lebron.
The second best FG% by a perimeter player was James Jones with 32% that's 8% less than Lebron's 40%FG.
The main cast of perimeter players? Shumpert, JR and Delly with percentages of 26%, 31% and 28% that as an AVG equals 28%, 12% less than Lebron James.

Good luck winning a Finals with that squad.
Sorry, but if you don't see that as impressive, then you are clearly a hater.

mngopher35
02-25-2016, 07:09 PM
Because if you were the best player in June then you will remind the world when you stop on the court in October/November. Curry was playing better than him at the start of the season last year but they were serving different roles. When the best player title was on the line. Curry took him it from him on the biggest stage of them all. When do you believe Curry became the best player if not the Finals? I said this in my last post. Was it the 4th game of the season? The 8th game? The 11th game? It doesn't flip on a random regular season game.

Ok but below even you say you agree with me on older players not going all out. If that is true then we wouldn't have an actual picture until playoff time this season. The part where we disagree is on their finals performance because I believe Lebron was the better individual even though GS won. It was pretty obvious to everyone that would happen from the start (will go in depth soon). It isn't so much a certain game where I think Curry showed he was the best but watching him play I thought there was improvement from last year and I expect Lebron to continue declining. I judge players season by season so this season I have Curry as the best player for those reasons although I wouldn't say it is set in stone until playoffs ever (I would be willing to bet on it though if that makes sense). Last year I feel when both players matched up in the finals Lebron was still the superior player so I can see an argument both ways (I personally take Lebron but it is close, I believe somewhere in this thread I even questioned those who said it wasn't). Again I don't think 80+% of people didn't realize Currys greatness and what he was becoming but more so gave the edge to the player who finished the season the best while having being the best for a long stretch previous to that season.






I agree with this but I don't think this proves LeBron is better than Curry.

Agreed it isn't proof but think of the previous season where Durant outplayed Lebron in the regular season. You clearly didn't have him taking over on top that season and my guess is because Lebron finished the season better come playoff time. That is what I am getting at here, people use the playoffs to judge him far more at this point as he has clearly aged.




This argument is great for you because over time it is only going to get harder and harder for people to remember the specifics. The reality is that the series was not as close as people make it out to be. By Game 4 the Warriors had completely figured the Cavs out. 2 Blowout wins for the Warriors with Curry outplaying LeBron in all 3 of those last wins. Curry had 1 team killing game. LeBron had 3.

I kind of agree it wasn't a very close series but going in most could see Cleveland was outmatched (injured love, after game 1 injured Kyrie). What the Warriors figured out on the Cavs was how to get their offense on track and that the other players outside of Lebron were struggling mightly (not sure if it is this thread but someone posted how pathetic they were shooting the few minutes he wasn't out there). You can say Curry outplayed Lebron in game 5 but again I think this comes down to teammates and the fact that they won the game. Lebron put up 40/11/14 with an ORTG of 119 (18 pts higher than the team average of 101) while Curry put up 37/4/7 on 127 ORTG (12 pts higher than team average of 115) although his shooting was great the ortg drops due to the assist/turnover ratio which Lebron excelled at all series. Lebron clearly had the bigger load to handle and clearly was more productive although his efficiency was hurt because again his team was far inferior (although he raised his higher above his teams than Curry did his for that reason, his usage was 10% higher). The only way Cleveland could even compete was to have Lebron slow the game down limiting turnovers while creating for the entire team, his efficiency will obviously drop in such a setting.




He shot 35-89 over those last 3 games. I watched every minute It was ugly. How can you win with your best player shooting 7-22 from the field? How can you win with your best player shooting 2-10 from 3pt in the clinching game? Where his defense? He got hidden the entire series. Didn't even lock any of their top scorers up. Never switched on to Curry like he did Rose. Curry guarded LeBron on switches more than the other way around. He let the Cavs keep trapping 30 feet from the rim. Let Curry make the pinpoint pass to Draymond, Iggy, even David Lee and let the Warriors carve them up playing 4 on 3 basketball. He chucked his way to +30 points and played lackluster defense. He also was way less aggressive in games 4-5-6 and was missing easy shots at the rim. I'm all for "LeBron is Hero" after Game 3. But that storyline came to an end in Game 4 and a screeching halt after games 5 and 6.

Cool but again it isn't all shooting efficiency especially with the handicap he had of needing to put it on his back. It isn't like Lebron out of no where decided to just change his style of looking for the right play, he realized the situation the Cavs were in and slowed it down and protected the ball to maybe give them a chance. Also the reason TT (and lesser extent Moz who benefited from finishing Lebrons assists more) had solid ortg that series is the attention Lebron drew leading to offensive put backs with this style. Yes in the end he hurt his efficiency doing this but given the situation it was the right move. Of course they didn't use Lebron as a defensive piece of some sort, the load he was forced into offensively was unreal he would have had to sit more to do that which they couldn't afford (and it isn't like Curry was working extremely hard on that end either btw).

As much as you harp on efficiency you seem to want to ignore that Curry had an ORTG of 104 for the series which was exactly the same as Lebron (then factor in the extra production and inferior help). For Curry he actually was less efficient than the Warriors team as a whole while Lebron was above the Cavs average. If someone with clearly a worst cast is able to score 10 more ppg, 2 more apg, 8 more rpg while overall playing as efficiently somehow went ghost while the other took over top spot we have far different ways of judging individuals.





Who would you have given FMVP and why? That will explain a lot.

Sounds good. :)

Lebron or Curry, I wouldn't have voted for Iggy. Personally I think the award should go to the best player in the finals (Lebron) but based off history Curry likely makes the most sense as best player on winning team. With all of that said I kinda like Iggy haha so it wasn't a major issue for me due to that. If your point is it wasn't actually Iggy I agree though, Curry was certainly the best player for GS.

mngopher35
02-25-2016, 07:23 PM
I am not even saying I think you are necessarily wrong for having Curry at the top last season btw KOB. It was very close and I see the argument on both sides having merit. I just don't think that people choosing Lebron here is a sign that people didn't realize/see how great Curry was.

Edit: I went back to see my quotes and I didn't even choose between them saying it was close and based on opinion (also didn't vote). I thought I had chosen Lebron due to his performance actually but I was pretty middle of the road saying either has a case (suggested a poll in my first quote because I wanted to see people's thoughts haha). I definitely did ask people who said it wasn't close to explain and was surprised how many actually did say something like that. Looks like a chunk of that 80+% choosing Lebron actually weren't giving curry enough credit (not all though only those who stated that).

BKLYNpigeon
02-25-2016, 08:05 PM
Curry. He could finish the year with the highest PER EVER in the NBA.

Which is 32.32 right now.

Currys' 4th qtr PER is 44. lol.

Scoots
02-25-2016, 08:38 PM
I get the argument that LeBron shot badly in the Finals, but really who else in Cleveland was going to pick up the slack? Here is the TS% for all the perimeter players with Bron:

... <snip> ...

If you want to criticize LeBron for shooting bad fine, he needed to shoot better. But who on the team was helping him out?

I complimented LeBron on his finals performance from day 1 ... what he did by dominating the ball was the best job anybody has done to slow and disrupt the Warriors and it was and is frankly amazing. That said, had LeBron been running an offense and had his teammates been more involved their numbers and efficiency would likely have improved. The way it was played with LeBron dominating the ball and Iguodala doing a stellar job on him without help, LeBron's teammates were faced with an entrenched defense of the #1 defensive team in the NBA not having to pick up players in transition and not having to even switch and make all the right decisions, the Cavs offense made defending them simple ... that they shot the ball poorly is in some regard a direct result of LeBron and the way the finals were played. The fact that LeBron was as efficient as he was playing like that is totally amazing, but there were definite compromises in the plan.

JasonJohnHorn
02-25-2016, 09:08 PM
First: Westy is more deserving of being an option than Harden.


Second: How is Curry not decimating this poll? I mean, LBJ is amazing, but let's be real: his efficiency is way down.

mngopher35
02-25-2016, 09:16 PM
This is based off last season, if you made a new poll this season it would be different.

Bostonjorge
02-25-2016, 10:42 PM
Lebrons .398 from the floor was worse then any one of Iverson's seasons. That's how bad it was. With a 2-1 lead the most important game was game 4 of the series and lebron had his worse game of the series. That's when Iggy got his first start of the season.

The best player that series was Iggy. Curry, klay and green all disappeared and even at time awful. Iggy getting his first start of the season changed that series around. His destruction of lebron from that point on was why he deserved the MVP. Held James to .319 game 4 to tie the series. In the final game held James to 13-33 while putting up his most points all year. When Iggy was guarding James, james went 11-46 that series.

Vince70
02-26-2016, 08:38 AM
Curry has been the best in the reg season this year but if LeBron starts putting up those 39/17/13 games in the postseason again like last year then he will reclaim the honor as the best player in the world.

Hawkeye15
02-26-2016, 12:12 PM
First: Westy is more deserving of being an option than Harden.


Second: How is Curry not decimating this poll? I mean, LBJ is amazing, but let's be real: his efficiency is way down.

because the poll was put up at the beginning of the season. I voted LeBron, but Curry didn't lead at the time, for the same reason LeBron wouldn't have won the poll at the beginning on the 08-09' season. While he was clearly the best player the previous season, we needed to see more.

If it was re-done now, Curry runs away with it.

IKnowHoops
02-26-2016, 01:01 PM
Curry has been the best in the reg season this year but if LeBron starts putting up those 39/17/13 games in the postseason again like last year then he will reclaim the honor as the best player in the world.

I agree with this. If Steph outplays Lebron in the playoffs, and the inevitable finals matchup, then Curry for sure without a doubt has surpassed Lebron as the best player in the league. But if the reverse happens, then Bron is still the best. Curry is unbelievable.

mavwar53
02-26-2016, 01:18 PM
I agree with this. If Steph outplays Lebron in the playoffs, and the inevitable finals matchup, then Curry for sure without a doubt has surpassed Lebron as the best player in the league. But if the reverse happens, then Bron is still the best. Curry is unbelievable.

So you're saying numbers make the better player, not the winning and having good numbers but losing and having amazing numbers is a better player.

So when David lee was a 20/10 guy he was a top 25 player right?

jerellh528
02-26-2016, 02:24 PM
Lebron wasn't even good in the playoffs. His finals was a different story because he put the team on his back and you can overlook the horrendous effeciency because he was doin all he could. But outside the finals, he was pretty bad in last year's postseason.

tredigs
02-26-2016, 02:40 PM
I agree with this. If Steph outplays Lebron in the playoffs, and the inevitable finals matchup, then Curry for sure without a doubt has surpassed Lebron as the best player in the league. But if the reverse happens, then Bron is still the best. Curry is unbelievable.
Is Curry again double+ teamed on the perimeter in most occasions in this repeat scenario? Lol. He essentially gifted Iggy finals MVP due to the Cavs cartoonish overplaying of Curry. Nobody has ever had a higher usage or missed more shots than Lebron did in that finals (which is sayin something considering it went 6, not 7). At this point, Curry has lapped Lebron. He cant show up and go crazy in a losing effort (while Curry again gladly defers to the open passer + wins the series) and hope to regain his lost crown. He has never been as good on O as Curry currently is day in/out, and he is not getting better.

The torch is gone.

Chronz
02-26-2016, 02:53 PM
Lebrons .398 from the floor was worse then any one of Iverson's seasons.
You're looking at FG%. Who the **** cares about such an outdated stat by now? And you're also comparing stats from a FINALS against the best defensive team in the league vs the REGULAR SEASON. You cant be this much of a hater.


That's how bad it was.
No, thats how bad your analysis is. Bron was more efficient than you think, you just cant ignore possessions by looking solely at FG%.