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PowerHouse
06-16-2015, 12:33 AM
Well we've had threads for all the positions over the last 1-2 months except one. Now time to give some love to the PGs. I think this one should be an interesting debate. Who make your top 5 all time?

xnick5757
06-16-2015, 12:38 AM
1.) Magic
2.) Stockton
3.) West
4.) Oscar
5.) CP3

More-Than-Most
06-16-2015, 12:55 AM
Robert Horry. dont care if he wasnt a PG.. those rings bruhhhh

:laugh:

jon32
06-16-2015, 01:16 AM
In no order


Stockton
Isiah
Oscar
Magic
Payton/Frazier/West/Nash ....Either one of the 4

jon32
06-16-2015, 01:18 AM
Cousy is up there......I know he gets hated on with the era he played....but still.....the guy dominated beyond belief for who he played against. If he played against the guys of today hed prob be humiliated...but so would alot of ' Legends" .

PowerHouse
06-16-2015, 01:37 AM
So far no love for J Kidd..

jon32
06-16-2015, 01:40 AM
J.Kidd is easily 6-10 ...not top 5

lincecum=future
06-16-2015, 02:18 AM
Magic
Oscar
Stockton
Isiah
Cousy

GP JKidd Nash and Frazier are all right there too

More-Than-Most
06-16-2015, 02:32 AM
Honestly when its all said and done CP3 will be number 2 behind Magic... Right now Id take him over Stockton/Isiah/Cousy pretty easily... People underrate so insanely how great CP3 is at both sides of the ball and use the playoffs and not having a championship as the reason but Stockton is everyones top 2? Seems like a double standard... Stockton had Malone... CP3 has never had anyone that great on any of his teams.

jerellh528
06-16-2015, 02:46 AM
Honestly when its all said and done CP3 will be number 2 behind Magic... Right now Id take him over Stockton/Isiah/Cousy pretty easily... People underrate so insanely how great CP3 is at both sides of the ball and use the playoffs and not having a championship as the reason but Stockton is everyones top 2? Seems like a double standard... Stockton had Malone... CP3 has never had anyone that great on any of his teams.

Agree. I'll gladly take cp3 over any pg not named magic.

More-Than-Most
06-16-2015, 02:57 AM
Agree. I'll gladly take cp3 over any pg not named magic.

he has no shot of surpassing magic... there might be an argument if he plays at this level for like 10 more years because magic retired early... but no way he will pass magic. If Magic doesnt retire early he might very well be the goat right now.

MTar786
06-16-2015, 03:07 AM
i think curry overtakes everyone on the list besides for magic

raiderposting
06-16-2015, 03:13 AM
In before someone says Lebron don't say the bron

slaker619
06-16-2015, 03:19 AM
1.Oscar
2.Magic
3.Kidd
4.Stockton
5.Nash/CP3

numba1CHANGsta
06-16-2015, 03:23 AM
1. Magic
2. Big O
3. Zeke
4. Cousy
5. Stockton
6. GP
7. Kidd
8. Frazier
9. Nash
10. CP3

I don't think West was considered a PG, he was either a SG or G, not a pure PG

naps
06-16-2015, 03:26 AM
Magic
Stockton
Oscar
Isiah
Nash

ThePlayoffs
06-16-2015, 04:25 AM
Magic
Stockton
Oscar
Isiah
Nash

If Curry can keep performing the way he did this season and postseason I'd say curry over thomas.

MTar786
06-16-2015, 04:40 AM
If Curry can keep performing the way he did this season and postseason I'd say curry over thomas.

why not over stockton and oscar?

i can understand maybe oscar.. but i def can see curry being better than stockton

Raps08-09 Champ
06-16-2015, 04:43 AM
Magic, Oscar, CP3, Thomas, Frazier.

Captain Moroni
06-16-2015, 04:48 AM
Magic
Stockton
Nash
Kidd
Thomas

JasonJohnHorn
06-16-2015, 07:32 AM
This is hard because there are so many guys who can be seen as point guards who aren't traditionally referred to as point guards. Jerry West, for example, brought the ball up all the time and was point-guard size and got a boat load of assists, but he's always called a shooting guard? Why? I dunno... He and Goodrich shared ball-handling duties.

Same with Iverson. He was a scoring point guard. He brought the ball up all the time and lead his team in assists, yet people call him a shooting guard because Philly ran with two point guards.

Jordan is the same. When did Paxon ever bring the ball up? Jordan was the point guard. He brought the ball up. He distributed. Paxon was the shooting guard. He just stood there, spread the floor, and hit open shots.


As for the Big O, who many considered to be a point guard, he was frequently at SG and SF.


That aside... the top three (in no particular order) are Magic, Robertson and Stockton.

After that, I'd say CP3 and West if I'm allowed to call West a point guard, otherwise I'll put Thomas in there, but I see a couple more years of Curry playing like this and Thomas is off that list easily.

Bigdaddyburch
06-16-2015, 07:47 AM
1. Magic
2. Big O
3. Zeke
4. Cousy
5. Stockton
6. GP
7. Kidd
8. Frazier
9. Nash
10. CP3

I don't think West was considered a PG, he was either a SG or G, not a pure PG

No Keven Johnson? How

JasonJohnHorn
06-16-2015, 07:49 AM
1. Magic
2. Big O
3. Zeke
4. Cousy
5. Stockton
6. GP
7. Kidd
8. Frazier
9. Nash
10. CP3

I don't think West was considered a PG, he was either a SG or G, not a pure PG

Stockton at five? SMH.

ewing
06-16-2015, 09:25 AM
Magic
J Kidd
Stockton
Frazier
Billups

valade16
06-16-2015, 11:31 AM
No Keven Johnson? How

Which of those guys would you put KJ over? I don't see any you could.

Am I the only one who already has Curry Top 5?

How many PGs ever have a Championship (which he will soon have) and an MVP? The only ones I can think of are Magic, Cousy and Big O.

Hawkeye15
06-16-2015, 11:52 AM
Zeke is so overrated by so many people.....

Magic
Stockton
Paul
Oscar
Walt

Cousy gets a shout out, I just have an impossible time ranking players from his era with the more advanced players/league

InRoseWeTrust
06-16-2015, 12:32 PM
Agree. I'll gladly take cp3 over any pg not named magic.

You must not like hardware.

Hawkeye15
06-16-2015, 12:35 PM
You must not like hardware.

outside Magic, what other top PG's have much hardware?

ManningToTyree
06-16-2015, 12:35 PM
Magic
Oscar
Stockton
Thomas
Frazier

InRoseWeTrust
06-16-2015, 01:26 PM
outside Magic, what other top PG's have much hardware?

It's not so much the lack of hardware as it is that he can't make it out of the second round of the playoffs. He's had some nice rosters to work with, too.

FYL_McVeezy
06-16-2015, 01:32 PM
1) Big O
2) Magic
3) Stockton
4) Zeke
5) Frazier/West/Cousy

valade16
06-16-2015, 01:35 PM
outside Magic, what other top PG's have much hardware?

Big O, Zeke, GP, Frazier, Kidd.

So virtually all of them except Stockton and Nash. The counter argument would be that virtually all of them except for Zeke and Frazier were not in their primes and/or riding another superstars coattails to a title while Frazier and Zeke had absolutely stacked teams around them.

Hawkeye15
06-16-2015, 01:40 PM
Big O, Zeke, GP, Frazier, Kidd.

So virtually all of them except Stockton and Nash. The counter argument would be that virtually all of them except for Zeke and Frazier were not in their primes and/or riding another superstars coattails to a title while Frazier and Zeke had absolutely stacked teams around them.

What hardware are you talking about though? I assumed he meant rings.

I still think people overrate Zeke. I don't even have him in my top 10 PGs

still1ballin
06-16-2015, 01:46 PM
Honestly when its all said and done CP3 will be number 2 behind Magic... Right now Id take him over Stockton/Isiah/Cousy pretty easily... People underrate so insanely how great CP3 is at both sides of the ball and use the playoffs and not having a championship as the reason but Stockton is everyones top 2? Seems like a double standard... Stockton had Malone... CP3 has never had anyone that great on any of his teams.

:facepalm:

The guy hasn't even made the WCF and you already have him over those players.

Stockton at least went to the finals twice. It isn't his fault he had to go against the GOAT in both finals.

Wow just wow :facepalm:

Hawkeye15
06-16-2015, 01:46 PM
:facepalm:

The guy hasn't even made the WCF and you already have him over those players.

Stockton at least went to the finals twice. It isn't his fault he had to go against the GOAT in both finals.

Wow just wow :facepalm:

I am a huge Stockton fan, but he was given pretty awesome help most of his career, as well as one of the most underrated coaches in history. Meaning, I can't use it against Paul.

valade16
06-16-2015, 01:48 PM
What hardware are you talking about though? I assumed he meant rings.

I still think people overrate Zeke. I don't even have him in my top 10 PGs

I have Zeke lower than most but definitely in my Top 10.

I'm believe he meant rings but everyone I listed has rings (unless I'm mistaken).

SLY WILLIAMS
06-16-2015, 01:54 PM
Stockton
Magic
Oscar
Clyde
Isiah

Bigdaddyburch
06-16-2015, 02:24 PM
No Keven Johnson? How

Which of those guys would you put KJ over? I don't see any you could.

Am I the only one who already has Curry Top 5?

How many PGs ever have a Championship (which he will soon have) and an MVP? The only ones I can think of are Magic, Cousy and Big O.

Well being a Suns fan i have seen Nash and Kidd. IMO KJ was the best PG the Suns ever had. Very underrated.

Curry is great and all but I don't see him really generating and running the O like the others. Shooting yes but not the passing. He is still young though i just think its a bit to soon.

SLY WILLIAMS
06-16-2015, 02:32 PM
Well being a Suns fan i have seen Nash and Kidd. IMO KJ was the best PG the Suns ever had. Very underrated.

Curry is great and all but I don't see him really generating and running the O like the others. Shooting yes but not the passing. He is still young though i just think its a bit to soon.

While I do not have KJ as a top 5 PG, I do think KJ is often underrated on PSD.

Wrigheyes4MVP
06-16-2015, 02:40 PM
Is it wrong to put Lebron on this list? He could easily play PG and be #2 on this list or even #1 if he wanted to.

valade16
06-16-2015, 02:41 PM
Well being a Suns fan i have seen Nash and Kidd. IMO KJ was the best PG the Suns ever had. Very underrated.

Curry is great and all but I don't see him really generating and running the O like the others. Shooting yes but not the passing. He is still young though i just think its a bit to soon.

The Warriors had the 2nd best Ortg of any team this season. His AST% is equivalent to Gary Payton and Walt Fraziers.

True, he's not a traditional PG in that sense but his scoring definitely makes him that valuable overall.

Wrigheyes4MVP
06-16-2015, 02:45 PM
If Curry can keep performing the way he did this season and postseason I'd say curry over thomas.

Is this a career year for Curry or will he keep doing this for the next 5 years or so? That is the big question. If he does, he is easily in the top 5 for me, but again, this is a big IF. He could end up being #2 on this list or not even top 10.

Wrigheyes4MVP
06-16-2015, 02:49 PM
This is hard because there are so many guys who can be seen as point guards who aren't traditionally referred to as point guards. Jerry West, for example, brought the ball up all the time and was point-guard size and got a boat load of assists, but he's always called a shooting guard? Why? I dunno... He and Goodrich shared ball-handling duties.

Same with Iverson. He was a scoring point guard. He brought the ball up all the time and lead his team in assists, yet people call him a shooting guard because Philly ran with two point guards.

Jordan is the same. When did Paxon ever bring the ball up? Jordan was the point guard. He brought the ball up. He distributed. Paxon was the shooting guard. He just stood there, spread the floor, and hit open shots.


As for the Big O, who many considered to be a point guard, he was frequently at SG and SF.


That aside... the top three (in no particular order) are Magic, Robertson and Stockton.

After that, I'd say CP3 and West if I'm allowed to call West a point guard, otherwise I'll put Thomas in there, but I see a couple more years of Curry playing like this and Thomas is off that list easily.

I brought up Lebron before. Same deal with him. No reason at all he can't play PG and often times he pretty much does. I mean, I could easily call him the best PG in the NBA right now because he probably is.

alexander_37
06-16-2015, 02:56 PM
Stock had Malone, Malone was the superior player there. Not trying to knock Stock hard he just had severe physical limitations and an all time big man for his literal whole career.

That said

Magic
Oscar
Kidd/Stock/GP
Nash/CP3

jerellh528
06-16-2015, 03:00 PM
Is it wrong to put Lebron on this list? He could easily play PG and be #2 on this list or even #1 if he wanted to.

You just had to go and ruin a good thing huh? Lol

alexander_37
06-16-2015, 03:00 PM
Also lets wait 5 more years before even discussing Curry. He will get there, just not yet.

alexander_37
06-16-2015, 03:02 PM
Is it wrong to put Lebron on this list? He could easily play PG and be #2 on this list or even #1 if he wanted to.

Just stop.

If Lebron wanted he could impregnate a woman by looking at her
If LeBron wanted he could turn Caitlyn jenner back into a man
If LeBron wanted he could have won a championship every year

Hawkeye15
06-16-2015, 03:19 PM
Is it wrong to put Lebron on this list? He could easily play PG and be #2 on this list or even #1 if he wanted to.

besides the fact that he has been listed at 0 minutes on the court at the position of PG?

cmellofan15
06-16-2015, 03:26 PM
I'm with hawk on the zeke being overrated thing. re-watching the pistons play and through some discussion and analysis with chronz I'd say both dumars and zeke are usually pretty overrated because of their team success and of course the rings. they had a great narrative, the whole bad boys thing, but I couldn't put zeke over guys like Nash, Kidd, CP3, Cousy.

valade16
06-16-2015, 03:34 PM
besides the fact that he has been listed at 0 minutes on the court at the position of PG?

Doesn't that show to some extent the flaw of positional listing for game results? Doesn't it to some extent show the futility of trying to condense players contributions on the court to a specific position.

From what I saw of this Finals series LeBron was performing PG duties far more than Dellavedova ever was, yet Delly is listed as the PG.

Bron is averaging 8.8 APG and Delly 2.8 this series. And Bron was either responsible via passing or shooting on like 70 of Clevelands 90 points last game.

So if Bron is not listed as being the PG once in this series I think that shows more the fundamental flaw with that statistic than Bron's inability to play PG or do what a PG does.

Hawkeye15
06-16-2015, 03:53 PM
Doesn't that show to some extent the flaw of positional listing for game results? Doesn't it to some extent show the futility of trying to condense players contributions on the court to a specific position.

From what I saw of this Finals series LeBron was performing PG duties far more than Dellavedova ever was, yet Delly is listed as the PG.

Bron is averaging 8.8 APG and Delly 2.8 this series. And Bron was either responsible via passing or shooting on like 70 of Clevelands 90 points last game.

So if Bron is not listed as being the PG once in this series I think that shows more the fundamental flaw with that statistic than Bron's inability to play PG or do what a PG does.

I am not arguing that per say. He also isn't defending PG's for the most part, he isn't playing the role of PG unless necessary, etc. And he wouldn't be playing PG if a capable one (Irving) were there. He doesn't qualify as a PG, for any more than a spot here and a spot there.

ewing
06-16-2015, 04:02 PM
Is it wrong to put Lebron on this list? He could easily play PG and be #2 on this list or even #1 if he wanted to.

of course not. His teammates are so bad he plays all 5 spots at once, only misses b/c them, and is responsibility for ever bucket they get

papipapsmanny
06-16-2015, 04:11 PM
I think people don't give the assist stat enough credit when making these comparisons. Those assists each led to 2 points at least.

I mean in stockton's case for 9 straight seasons he was averaging over 15 points a game on over 50% shooting, and at least 11 assists, which would at the very minimum account for another 22 points per game.

That is damn good. I mean he got his points on incredible efficiency and he also had such incredible assist numbers. Not to mention his steals numbers.

I think people just like to look at points and kind of disregard the assists for what the really are, which is essentially more points

valade16
06-16-2015, 04:33 PM
I am not arguing that per say. He also isn't defending PG's for the most part, he isn't playing the role of PG unless necessary, etc. And he wouldn't be playing PG if a capable one (Irving) were there. He doesn't qualify as a PG, for any more than a spot here and a spot there.

I can agree with that.

Bigdaddyburch
06-16-2015, 04:45 PM
Well being a Suns fan i have seen Nash and Kidd. IMO KJ was the best PG the Suns ever had. Very underrated.

Curry is great and all but I don't see him really generating and running the O like the others. Shooting yes but not the passing. He is still young though i just think its a bit to soon.

While I do not have KJ as a top 5 PG, I do think KJ is often underrated on PSD.

Oh no I wouldn't put him top 5 either. The post I was talking about was a top 10 that included both Nash and Kidd. While respectable for sure i just dont think Kidd was as good. A argument could be made for Nash and in the end its just my opinion but as a life long Suns fan and one who saw all three upclose i feel KJ was the best of the bunch. I would not put him top 5 but I think at the very least a notable top 10.

Bigdaddyburch
06-16-2015, 04:47 PM
Well being a Suns fan i have seen Nash and Kidd. IMO KJ was the best PG the Suns ever had. Very underrated.

Curry is great and all but I don't see him really generating and running the O like the others. Shooting yes but not the passing. He is still young though i just think its a bit to soon.

The Warriors had the 2nd best Ortg of any team this season. His AST% is equivalent to Gary Payton and Walt Fraziers.

True, he's not a traditional PG in that sense but his scoring definitely makes him that valuable overall.

I understand your point. He is a great scorer maybe one day the best ever as far as putside shoiting. I guess i am more of a purist as far as PG.

Hawkeye15
06-16-2015, 05:14 PM
I can agree with that.

greatest passing/offense initiating forward in history though, yes.

YAALREADYKNO
06-16-2015, 10:51 PM
Magic
Isiah
Stockton
Robertson
Kidd