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View Full Version : Was it a mistake for Clev to go small in game 5?



ewing
06-15-2015, 10:52 AM
Sorry this thread isn't about LeBron's legacy, anyway what do you guys think about Mozgov playing 9 mins in game 5? What should they do in game 6?

KarlKevinMalone
06-15-2015, 10:58 AM
When you have 7 serviceable NBA players on your roster, taking one ( and a productive one at that) completely out of the rotation is never the best plan.

2-ONE-5
06-15-2015, 11:01 AM
couldnt believe it. Mozgov was having a strong series

Sadds The Gr8
06-15-2015, 11:02 AM
It was a fine gameplan. They were in the game until Curry went insane, and he was due for that.

Muttman73
06-15-2015, 11:03 AM
All the way with LBJ!!!

theducksmuggler
06-15-2015, 11:03 AM
These type of Coaching decisions will possibly get Blatt fired in my opinion, Mosgov was their advantage in game 1-4 to play him 9 minutes in the most important game of the series makes no sense to me.

flea
06-15-2015, 11:07 AM
Yes but I think it could have been requested by a certain star player. The post-ups are a physically taxing way to get offense and I think Lebron wanted to work as a drive and dish guy more in game 5 - especially if he could get a switch. It's not a bad idea to go to it at the end of quarters early or something but Mozgov is arguably the 2nd best player (him or Thompson) so keeping him out is a bad idea.

I think Lebron is a pretty good P&R player, especially for a forward, but he is not great at it and definitely looks to score first. Mozgov is the best roll man in the series and is looking like one of the better finishing centers in the league. I don't see why you take that out of your gameplan when you can get easy points off it. We've seen Shumpert and Dellavedova run the p&r pretty well with him. Lebron needs to channel his inner Steve Nash and feed his big man. Not only can Mozgov finish over just about everyone the Warriors throw at him but he can also pop out and hit a 10-12 footer.

likemystylez
06-15-2015, 11:15 AM
couldnt believe it. Mozgov was having a strong series

but even when mozgov had the best game of his life- they lost by 20 points on their home floor.

blatt isnt trying to win a fantasy league tournament with individual stats... hes trying to win games, and he put that over mozgovs individual success

SLY WILLIAMS
06-15-2015, 11:15 AM
Center was one of the positions the Cavs were best at so I do think it was a questionable move. The Cavs have won the battle at 3 positions (C, PF, SF) this series when all the hype is ignored.

I think Blatt was just trying to match up with GS after a blowout game 4 so I understand his motivation but in reality if I was the coach I would say we do not need Lebron taking 34 shots a game. Lets take advantage of our size advantage inside with Moz and TT a bit more often since GS plays a 6 foot 7 inch center in Green. They could win this series by scoring more efficiently if used their dominant size inside more often.

NYKnickFanatic
06-15-2015, 11:22 AM
Yes. To give Mozzy only 9 minutes after his last performance is crazy. Blatt is not going to win by trying to play the Warriors game. They need a game plan and have to stick with it. I believe the Warriors outscored the Cavs in the paint last night and I feel like Mozzy could have prevented some of those baskets. If Cavs want to win tomorrow, they better have a plan and stick with it.

2-ONE-5
06-15-2015, 11:30 AM
but even when mozgov had the best game of his life- they lost by 20 points on their home floor.

blatt isnt trying to win a fantasy league tournament with individual stats... hes trying to win games, and he put that over mozgovs individual success

true but he was only -5 while the rest of the starters were -12 to -15

NYKnickFanatic
06-15-2015, 11:32 AM
but even when mozgov had the best game of his life- they lost by 20 points on their home floor.

blatt isnt trying to win a fantasy league tournament with individual stats... hes trying to win games, and he put that over mozgovs individual success

Maybe if Delly, JR and Shump were able to hit shots, they wouldn't have lost by 20.

MDD
06-15-2015, 11:42 AM
Look the Warriors are a better team and the cavs are limited. Blatt is going to get criticized no matter what he do by Cavs fans weather he is the best move or not as long as the Cavs are losing not realizing u are playing a better team and can only do so much!!!!!!

KG2TB
06-15-2015, 11:44 AM
He probably should have played a bit more but the Cavs were in the game in the 4th and it's not like Moz was having a great game or impact when he did play. Stephen A made it seem like it was the biggest blunder of all time after the game but in reality, it was working for them. If JR Smith showed up and if LeBron finished some make-able shots when the game started to go GS's direction, this would be a non story. Especially if Curry didn't go complete alien mode at the end of the game.

SLY WILLIAMS
06-15-2015, 11:46 AM
Look the Warriors are a better team and the cavs are limited. Blatt is going to get criticized no matter what he do by Cavs fans weather it is the best move or not as long as the Cavs are losing not realizing u are playing a better and can only do so much!!!!!!

I do not think he should be criticized for the move. He tried to match up to a team playing a 6 foot 7 inch center (Green). I just think he should see that it did not work and go back to the guys on his team that are actually winning their individual battles.

kubernetes
06-15-2015, 11:46 AM
It was probably the right call.

GSW's small lineup features 5 guys who can shoot the 3. Who does Mozgov defend? Green? Green will be camped out on the 3pt line, which means either leaving him undefended or giving up the paint to penetration. If the latter, why even play Timo? Also, Mozgov is slow and CLE would end up surrendering a ton of transition points while GSW pushes the pace.

So yeah, will posting up Mozgov and getting more oRebs offset playing 4 v 5 on defense? I would guess not. Faster pace and higher scoring benefits GSW.

ewing
06-15-2015, 11:49 AM
It was probably the right call.

GSW's small lineup features 5 guys who can shoot the 3. Who does Mozgov defend? Green? Green will be camped out on the 3pt line, which means either leaving him undefended or giving up the paint to penetration. If the latter, why even play Timo? Also, Mozgov is slow and CLE would end up surrendering a ton of transition points while GSW pushes the pace.

So yeah, will posting up Mozgov and getting more oRebs offset playing 4 v 5 on defense? I would guess not. Faster pace and higher scoring benefits GSW.


i let green shoot every 3 he wants until he proves he can make them consistently. Green 3 point shooting is a terrible arguemnt for keeping Moz on the bench in my opinion.

kubernetes
06-15-2015, 11:59 AM
i let green shoot every 3 he wants until he proves he can make them consistently. Green 3 point shooting is a terrible arguemnt for keeping Moz on the bench in my opinion.

Green is pretty decent from 3--he's certainly not a guy you want to leave free all game.
And what about when a free-running Green can screen and spring Curry or Thompson at will? Again 4 v 5 defense is a bad idea against GSW because none of them are offensively challenged. And what about fast breaks and transitions? There's a reason GSW's small ball lineup has given them the largest Off/Def rating differential all season.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-15-2015, 12:02 PM
Stupid move. Moz has been a monster down low. Huge mistake

bucketss
06-15-2015, 12:07 PM
the small lineup was working untill gsw started getting hot late. too many open threes with mozgov out there i guess. what i find weird is iggy can get hot from three but can't shoot free throws.

ewing
06-15-2015, 12:19 PM
Green is pretty decent from 3--he's certainly not a guy you want to leave free all game.
And what about when a free-running Green can screen and spring Curry or Thompson at will? Again 4 v 5 defense is a bad idea against GSW because none of them are offensively challenged. And what about fast breaks and transitions? There's a reason GSW's small ball lineup has given them the largest Off/Def rating differential all season.


Green shot 33% all season i would guess that he was uncontested on 99% of his attempts. he also has been ice cold. again i let green shoot until he hurts me. As for the screen game, you are going to have to deal with it regardless and i actually think Mozgov presence on offensive allow you to control tempo more. Green is stuck inside playing D instead of ready to ignite breaks, plus you have a post presence, another offensive rebounder to hold GS back, and guy that can dive to the rim on screen roll instead of having to play screen and pop. your argument seems to boil down to Clev needs to keep up with a running warriors team. The problem with that is that they cant.

Iron24th
06-15-2015, 12:22 PM
This is what happens when you copy a gameplan instead of having your own.

JordansBulls
06-15-2015, 12:35 PM
Reason it was a bad move is that the Cavs were winning based on it's defense and size. It was a panic move but the reason the Cavs got blown out on Thursday was because they had been logging a lot of minutes for the same players. With days rest Cavs should had stuck to same lineup.

Gibby23
06-15-2015, 12:45 PM
They should slow it way down like clooege ball waste alot of the shot closk and just dump it down to Moz and Lebron all game. Has to be very controlled and have to make smart good passes to the post. They will get high % shots and could get the W's in foul trouble.

PhillyFaninLA
06-15-2015, 12:45 PM
There isn't much Cleveland can do. Its amazing they have been competitive, they are out talented and outclassed right now.


To the question at hand was it a mistake.....comparing the rosters of these 2 teams is like comparing apples to suspension bridges...they just aren't the same thing.

Truth is with Cleveland's injuries and playing guys that are decent bench players as starters it doesn't particularly matter what they do with there line up. Cleveland can win this series but 2 or 3 of there second tier guys need to play out of there mind and Lebron probably needs 2 more triple doubles with 40+ points.

Teeboy1487
06-15-2015, 01:02 PM
Would not have matter. GS is simply the better team. The only reason Cleveland has lasted this long is because of the best player in the league.

sportsfanatic99
06-15-2015, 01:15 PM
All you need to do cover Curry, Thompson and maybe Iggy. You can live with Green shooting 3s all day long.

They should have made Mozgov the downlow scorer on Iggy or Green.

Nothing you can do when GSW is the indeed the better team.

Chronz
06-15-2015, 01:23 PM
It was worth a shot, hes not a go-to guy offensively and they can attack him on the other end with their small ball. I would have kept him out there abit longer because 9 minutes isn't enough for anyone to find a rhythm but it seems like his early success was more about GS playing more traditionally.

Chronz
06-15-2015, 01:25 PM
All you need to do cover Curry, Thompson and maybe Iggy. You can live with Green shooting 3s all day long.

They should have made Mozgov the downlow scorer on Iggy or Green.

Nothing you can do when GSW is the indeed the better team.

How has he fared scoring downlow outside of dump offs and rebounds? He has more offensive skill than given credit for but can he handle that secondary scoring role in that capacity?

IBleedPurple
06-15-2015, 01:37 PM
Would not have matter. GS is simply the better team. The only reason Cleveland has lasted this long is because of the best player in the league.Don't buy that. Game 1 was close and last night was close with 4 1/2 mins left. To imply Cleveland had no chance is wrong.

Chronz
06-15-2015, 01:59 PM
Don't buy that. Game 1 was close and last night was close with 4 1/2 mins left. To imply Cleveland had no chance is wrong.

How does that go against what hes said?

Jamiecballer
06-15-2015, 02:01 PM
i thought it was stupid. him and Lebron are the two best players they've got in this series. i'm always in favor of playing your best no matter what.

IBleedPurple
06-15-2015, 03:01 PM
Don't buy that. Game 1 was close and last night was close with 4 1/2 mins left. To imply Cleveland had no chance is wrong.

How does that go against what hes said?I shouldn't have mentioned game 1. But when the thread asks if it was a mistake going small for CLE last night, and he replied it wouldn't have mattered, implies they had no chance last game. I disagree.

Bruno
06-15-2015, 03:24 PM
When you have 7 serviceable NBA players on your roster, taking one ( and a productive one at that) completely out of the rotation is never the best plan.

I can't help but agree. at least you can throw the ball into Moz. I get it, the spacing, but why give most of the minutes to Thompson as opposed to a split? ...probably because David Blatt values a guy who can pick up James misses. and of course all the other obscene misses from the perimeter from other players. guess thats more valuable than a reliable post game...

mngopher35
06-15-2015, 04:06 PM
I can't help but agree. at least you can throw the ball into Moz. I get it, the spacing, but why give most of the minutes to Thompson as opposed to a split? ...probably because David Blatt values a guy who can pick up James misses. and of course all the other obscene misses from the perimeter from other players. guess thats more valuable than a reliable post game...

I think that mosgov sits due to the defensive end. He is a good finisher but isn't really the guy you dump it down to in the post anyway (although vs smaller player he may have the advantage).

Right now Cleveland is trapping/switching a lot on their picks and Tt is much better at recovering or guarding a perimeter player. Mozgov did come in once they put David lee in I believe and guarded him but they seem to not want him on green (they tried him on iggy earlier too which didn't work with how well he's playing).

I'm not sure if it is the right move for some reasons (lack of depth and him being better on o) but I believe they did it to match up with the small ball better defensively.

Scoots
06-15-2015, 04:38 PM
It's a tough spot for the Cavs. Mozgov has an advantage at one end and a disadvantage at the other and the Cavs have been winning with D ... and Mozgov on a small breaks the D.

sf-fanatic
06-15-2015, 05:44 PM
Didn't the Cavs play big for the first 5 minutes with TT and Mosgov ?

It was really ugly. They had like 5 turnovers and couldn't get the ball in the post, which fueled the GSW fast break. Plus, they had trouble rotating on D and it was like the Warriors were running a layup line.

blahblahyoutoo
06-15-2015, 08:27 PM
was it a mistake for lebron's penis to go small in game 4?

kubernetes
06-15-2015, 09:14 PM
What is going on with the Lebron penis obsession? Do you guys just sit around all day thinking of famous people's dicks?

IBleedPurple
06-15-2015, 09:52 PM
What is going on with the Lebron penis obsession? Do you guys just sit around all day thinking of famous people's dicks?No forums make jokes? At least LeBron's name isn't Magic Johnson, that just wouldn't seem right.

flea
06-15-2015, 10:04 PM
No forums make jokes? At least LeBron's name isn't Magic Johnson, that just wouldn't seem right.

Given the HIV and all, Magic Johnson's name is more ironic than anything.

kubernetes
06-16-2015, 02:52 AM
No forums make jokes? At least LeBron's name isn't Magic Johnson, that just wouldn't seem right.

Jokes are cool, but you would think straight dudes would stop obsessing about another dude's penis. Or maybe a lot of guys here are... flexible that way. Which is fine, but it's not sports.

I used to hang out in a weightlifting forum, but after a while it got a little disturbing to see every conversation devolve into "That guy probably likes it in the ***," or "Betcha he has a tiny dick." The unwitting anti-gay-yet-very-gay vibe was unsettling. These are dudes who would prob break into a cold sweat while loudly protesting "I'm not gay!... f a g!"

Raps18-19 Champ
06-16-2015, 04:41 AM
When JR went cold, I would have gone with Mozgov for offensive purposes. Though going small helped them defensively before Curry went off.

MTar786
06-16-2015, 05:15 AM
big mistake. but they would have lost game 5 either way. They better start mozgov in game 6 though

JasonJohnHorn
06-16-2015, 07:25 AM
Cleveland needs guys who can step out and guard the perimeter against GSW.

That said, they still need a rim protector.

Scoots
06-16-2015, 11:51 AM
Heard an interesting point on Mozgov, he's never been doubled on the catch before, he doesn't know what to do which makes him a liability on offense (double teams and turnovers) and on defense (guarding a wing who can shoot) now.

With only 1 day between games can they really work much on getting higher percentage plays in for him if the Warriors are going to attack him that way?

IBleedPurple
06-16-2015, 12:35 PM
big mistake. but they would have lost game 5 either way. They better start mozgov in game 6 thoughThere is truly no way to know that.

cmellofan15
06-16-2015, 12:41 PM
no way you leave mozgov guarding iggy like they did. a smarter choice would have been to put him on green, but he still wouldn't have been able to keep up with him, and he'd ultimately get pulled out of the paint anyways.

I don't see it as a huge mistake, especially since Iggy quieted down this game. the unfortunate part was Curry's run in the 4th. not much mossy could have done to change that.

ewing
06-16-2015, 02:48 PM
Jokes are cool, but you would think straight dudes would stop obsessing about another dude's penis. Or maybe a lot of guys here are... flexible that way. Which is fine, but it's not sports.

I used to hang out in a weightlifting forum, but after a while it got a little disturbing to see every conversation devolve into "That guy probably likes it in the ***," or "Betcha he has a tiny dick." The unwitting anti-gay-yet-very-gay vibe was unsettling. These are dudes who would prob break into a cold sweat while loudly protesting "I'm not gay!... f a g!"


what are you queer?