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Chronz
06-10-2015, 06:42 PM
The Warriors nearly completed the biggest comeback in Finals history yesterday and it was primarily due to the play of David Lee. His ability to create for himself and others off the PnR with Curry was something we havent seen from anyone else this series.

Whatever the reason, Kerr chose to give spot minutes to Mo Speights before finally giving Lee a chance and we saw a glimpse at how the Dubs could finally solve Clevelands defensive intensity.

The Cavs have slowed the game down, are protecting the paint and giving up open shots, the key is they've been giving them to the right players. Is it time for the Warriors to go more on the offensive or do they stick to the gameplan thats gotten them here? Lee should have fresh legs and I imagine could help spark their transition AND half court game.


Its sort of an ironic reversal of how Cleveland has improved defensively in part due to the absence of both Irving and Love, yet the answer for GS may be to start playing the defensively inept Lee.





Going forward, beyond this year, do you guys see a big market for Lee? Would NY want him back? Can GS afford to keep their embarrassment of riches?

JasonJohnHorn
06-10-2015, 07:01 PM
He is certainly under used, but when you start the season without somebody, and you jump out to the best record and are chasing a 70-win season, you tend to go with what is working. Kerr seems to like the small ball with one post player and guys spreading the floor, and strong defenders. That plays perfectly into Green's skill set, and if Bogut is on the floor, then there is no room for Lee.

That said, Lee is an All-Star. He can pass. He can rebound. He can help a team win.


I'm surprised he wasn't used more in the regular season after he got back, but if you are winning games, you don't mess with what's working.

xxplayerxx23
06-10-2015, 07:01 PM
I would take him back in Ny if we signed gasol + a wing :shrug: don't know if we have enough Te to do so.

G_S_W
06-10-2015, 07:01 PM
Check my post history. I've stated many, many, many times that it is critical to get DLee some burn.

He provides midrange scoring, post scoring, excellent passing and rebounding at the 4.

Dray is scrappy as all get out, but terribly undersized at 6'7," isn't shooting very well, and can't finish at the rim.

There is a fine line between being loyal vs. dogmatic and inflexible. Kerr has already crossed that line.

Start Lee, give Steph a little breathing room, and watch the results.

G_S_W
06-10-2015, 07:07 PM
I'm surprised he wasn't used more in the regular season after he got back, but if you are winning games, you don't mess with what's working.

I agree, but this is the finals, not the regular season.

In particular, Steph is struggling immensely against Delly. Lee's scoring balances the attack. Dray is a poor matchup against Tristan. The logical thing is to give Lee minutes.

The warriors are averaging just 99 pts a game, with 2 of 3 of those games going to overtime.

How much longer will it take Kerr to figure out the obvious? The Warriors need front line scoring right now.

colinskik
06-10-2015, 07:19 PM
If Kerr doesn't start Lee in the next game or at least bring him in quickly if Draymond continues to struggle, it'll be hard to say he's a good coach.

Signed,
A bitter Knick fan

slaker619
06-10-2015, 07:20 PM
He could get traded still weather they win or not

curtcocaine
06-10-2015, 07:22 PM
Check my post history. I've stated many, many, many times that it is critical to get DLee some burn.

He provides midrange scoring, post scoring, excellent passing and rebounding at the 4.

Dray is scrappy as all get out, but terribly undersized at 6'7," isn't shooting very well, and can't finish at the rim.

There is a fine line between being loyal vs. dogmatic and inflexible. Kerr has already crossed that line.

Start Lee, give Steph a little breathing room, and watch the results.
I agree 1000% you can actually check my post yesterday. I wanted him or Speights, something different has to be done.

Teeboy1487
06-10-2015, 07:26 PM
I agree, but this is the finals, not the regular season.

In particular, Steph is struggling immensely against Delly. Lee's scoring balances the attack. Dray is a poor matchup against Tristan. The logical thing is to give Lee minutes.

The warriors are averaging just 99 pts a game, with 2 of 3 of those games going to overtime.

How much longer will it take Kerr to figure out the obvious? The Warriors need front line scoring right now.
I also think GS should play zone to hide Lee, Barnes, and Curry defensively. Take away the paint specifically the left side of the floor for Lebron. Green coming off the bench could actually help him. He would have free reign to post up and get his shot going with the 2nd unit.

Sadds The Gr8
06-10-2015, 07:35 PM
He's probably a 3rd big at best at this point. Terrible defender, kills his teams rebounding, and completely lost his shot.

xxplayerxx23
06-10-2015, 08:22 PM
He's probably a 3rd big at best at this point. Terrible defender, kills his teams rebounding, and completely lost his shot.


Kills there rebounding what.

Sadds The Gr8
06-10-2015, 08:23 PM
Kills there rebounding what.
His teams rebound worse when he's on the court. His rebound #s are inflated

bleedprple&gold
06-10-2015, 08:34 PM
And all it took was Speights missing another dunk for Kerr to finally give Lee a shot.

beasted86
06-10-2015, 08:38 PM
Lee is an upgrade over Bogut who has played like trash.

Passing up layups/hooks and over-passing, bumbling catchable passes and rebounds, getting owned by Mozgov and Thompson in the paint, etc.

They really have nothing to lose giving Lee many of his minutes. Bogut is just an overrated defensive/limited offensive C at this point. A rich man's Kendrick Perkins.

PowerHouse
06-10-2015, 08:44 PM
The Warriors nearly completed the biggest comeback in Finals history yesterday and it was primarily due to the play of David Lee. His ability to create for himself and others off the PnR with Curry was something we havent seen from anyone else this series.

That would have been a nice comeback but the greatest in NBA finals history was 2008 Celtics came back from 24 points down in the third to win.

G_S_W
06-10-2015, 08:48 PM
Bogut has suffered too many injuries. He's a 7', 260 pounder who plays very physical defense. A lot of centers get worn down physically as the years go on, and Bogut is no exception.

Dray is undersized. Barnes looks out of his element. Curry is unwilling to stray from his strength (3 pt shooting), and has been careless with the basketball at times.

The warriors are figuring things out on the fly. As is Kerr.

As of this point, they are clearly being outhustled, outplayed and outcoached.

Let's see what, if any, adjustments Kerr and the Warriors can make tomorrow night.

Chronz
06-10-2015, 08:54 PM
That would have been a nice comeback but the greatest in NBA finals history was 2008 Celtics came back from 24 points down in the third to win.

Thats relatively easier to accomplish considering how much time was left. This kind of deficit and time is something I doubt has ever happened, at least not in the 3pt era. I dont remember the time/score from ur example tho.

Teeboy1487
06-10-2015, 09:13 PM
Lee is an upgrade over Bogut who has played like trash.

Passing up layups/hooks and over-passing, bumbling catchable passes and rebounds, getting owned by Mozgov and Thompson in the paint, etc.

They really have nothing to lose giving Lee many of his minutes. Bogut is just an overrated defensive/limited offensive C at this point. A rich man's Kendrick Perkins.

Great comparison for his play right now.

Yanks All Day
06-10-2015, 10:13 PM
I'm going to need to see more than 12 minutes to judge whether David Lee is a series changer. It could have been just as much Cleveland taking their foot off the gas in a blow out and poor offense on one end leading to good offense for Golden State.

But Golden State has nothing to lose giving him more minutes. The way this series is going currently, it wouldn't make it back to Cleveland for a Game 6. Might as well try to find something new that works. They need to neutralize Tristan Thompson somehow and Bogut is beyond useless offensively.

G_S_W
06-11-2015, 01:59 AM
Steve Kerr doesn't know how to make adjustments.

Curry has been very disappointing.

Barnes and Dray look completely out of their element.

Bogut is hobbled and injured.

This is a test for the Dubs' "leaders": Kerr and Curry. Neither has shown much leadership so far. Kerr is completely locked into his rotations. Curry is getting harassed by Delly, and moping that things aren't panning out.

The Dubs can still win, but both Kerr and Curry have to show some of the fire that LBJ and Delly have. LBJ and Delly are playing like this is the last series they'll ever play. Delly wound up in the hospital.

Curry and Kerr are acting like they just want to look pretty for the cameras. The Warriors, if they are going to win, are going to have to win ugly. They are going to have to outbattle, outhustle, and outwork a far less talented team.

So far, the warriors are acting like spoiled prima donnas.

Minimal
06-11-2015, 01:00 PM
Playing Lee might be real risky now. It might work, but if it doesn't you are done. Lee is a bad defender, if you start him, LeBron is gonna go at him from the get go, if he replaces Green that is, which might get a lot of open shots or get Lee in the foul trouble. Which might get a big lead for Cavs and put pressure on Dubs, making them harder to play. Dubs need to start strong to win the game. If I'm Kerr I replace Barnes with Iggy, start Green/Bogut, sort of to show loyalty and see what happens, if they still play like ****, I go for Lee, but only when Bron is exhausted a little bit. Cavs will be prepared for Lee, you need to be unpredictable to win the game.

buck4493
06-11-2015, 01:12 PM
Lee was an all star and cant get minutes. Thats on the coach. Especially when your team looks like crap with exception of 4th q game 3.

Bogut is as wortheless as a turd in a punch bowl.

No games left after finals so really not a time to try and let green play through his hideous play.

GiantsSwaGG
06-11-2015, 02:13 PM
Lee is a liability on defense, Draymond Green needs to wake up or the Warrior will lose this series!

sportsfanatic99
06-11-2015, 02:18 PM
Lebron might pick up his FG% if Lee is in the game over Bogut and go for 50+

and you're not going to sit your defensive player runner up as well in Green. even though you should bench Green , Green has earned his minutes to play in this series from the season and playoffs he's had so far.

Lee might even make Thompson look like an all star.

Minimal
06-11-2015, 02:35 PM
Yeah you definetely don't want the warriors become hawks nr 2 with Lee in.

ewing
06-11-2015, 02:50 PM
Playing Lee might be real risky now. It might work, but if it doesn't you are done. Lee is a bad defender, if you start him, LeBron is gonna go at him from the get go, if he replaces Green that is, which might get a lot of open shots or get Lee in the foul trouble. Which might get a big lead for Cavs and put pressure on Dubs, making them harder to play. Dubs need to start strong to win the game. If I'm Kerr I replace Barnes with Iggy, start Green/Bogut, sort of to show loyalty and see what happens, if they still play like ****, I go for Lee, but only when Bron is exhausted a little bit. Cavs will be prepared for Lee, you need to be unpredictable to win the game.


they want Bron shooting jump shots. If he makes them you are ****ed. That's always been the case. Bron is completely unfazed by Green in the paint. until Bron proves he can hit a jump shot i actually prefer Lee on Bron in iso situations.

Minimal
06-11-2015, 02:57 PM
they want Bron shooting jump shots. If he makes them you are ****ed. That's always been the case. Bron is completely unfazed by Green in the paint. until Bron proves he can hit a jump shot i actually prefer Lee on Bron in iso situations.
Bron is gonna drive on Lee, not post him up, Lee will eventually get in foul trouble or Dubs will be forced to double/triple team, leaving Cavs shooters alone. Bron knows his stuff. Draymond is not big enough for him, Lee is not fast enough.

GiantsSwaGG
06-11-2015, 03:02 PM
they want Bron shooting jump shots. If he makes them you are ****ed. That's always been the case. Bron is completely unfazed by Green in the paint. until Bron proves he can hit a jump shot i actually prefer Lee on Bron in iso situations.

Bron will murder Lee in iso, Lee will hurt the Warriors defensively. No one can guard LeBron NOONE. At least Draymond will make him work, they need him to wake up on offense, same with Barnes.

beasted86
06-11-2015, 03:04 PM
3 games into the series, there's only one guy posting a negative +/- in all 3 games regardless of win or loss: Andrew Bogut.

When he's on the floor the spacing is poor. He has no recovery speed on the pick and roll and is getting torched on lobs and offensive boards.

If Bogut starts the game ineffective again I would have no problem going to Lee early over Ezeli and playing him an extended stretch in the 2nd quarter. Green isn't the problem. The two Centers are the problem.

ewing
06-11-2015, 03:04 PM
Bron is gonna drive on Lee, not post him up, Lee will eventually get in foul trouble or Dubs will be forced to double/triple team, leaving Cavs shooters alone.


you don't give him the option. don't defend him on the perimeter. you pick up at about 16 or 17 feet, retreat, then contest. if he hits jump shots you adjust. Green has been trash on both sides of the floor. Lee will hurt you sometimes on D but it is in pick and roll situations where he has switch, hedge, recover, etc. where he will hurt. If he winds up ISOed on Bron you just drop back

ewing
06-11-2015, 03:06 PM
Bron will murder Lee in iso, Lee will hurt the Warriors defensively. No one can guard LeBron NOONE. At least Draymond will make him work, they need him to wake up on offense, same with Barnes.


im am sure you would have said the same thing about Boris Diaw before he used his size to force Bron to the perimeter. Green has been trash on both ends

Minimal
06-11-2015, 03:13 PM
3 games into the series, there's only one guy posting a negative +/- in all 3 games regardless of win or loss: Andrew Bogut.

When he's on the floor the spacing is poor. He has no recovery speed on the pick and roll and is getting torched on lobs and offensive boards.

If Bogut starts the game ineffective again I would have no problem going to Lee early over Ezeli and playing him an extended stretch in the 2nd quarter. Green isn't the problem. The two Centers are the problem.
Warriors will get outrebounded hard like that and who is gonna defend the paint?

ewing
06-11-2015, 03:15 PM
Ezeli has definitely been better the Bogut as well

papipapsmanny
06-11-2015, 03:29 PM
Lee should be playing, he creates space.

Honestly the Warriors should start Curry-Thompson-Iggy-Lee-Bogut

Green and Barnes need to come off the bench for good or until they prove something

lol, please
06-11-2015, 03:47 PM
Check my post history. I've stated many, many, many times that it is critical to get DLee some burn.

He provides midrange scoring, post scoring, excellent passing and rebounding at the 4.

Dray is scrappy as all get out, but terribly undersized at 6'7," isn't shooting very well, and can't finish at the rim.

There is a fine line between being loyal vs. dogmatic and inflexible. Kerr has already crossed that line.

Start Lee, give Steph a little breathing room, and watch the results.

You and me both dude. I have been harping on this for over half the season, and fellow fans laughed at me and said I was just a Lee homer and that Green had developed into a better overall player, but not for one second did I ever question my priority to value Lee's double-double consistency, and unstoppable assault with Curry on the pick and roll/pick and pop, over Green facilitating defensive switches, and occasionally dropping a 3 by "stretching the floor".

Kerr went with what's working at the beginning of the season due to his injury but I don't think going with what works and not fixing what isn't broken is the answer, especially when Lee as the second option wasn't broken to begin with.

Lee has carried the warriors several times before and can drop 30 on you if he goes unchecked. He has been the second option behind curry for 3 straight seasons and is a solid offensive contributor and rebounder, and his poor defense is a tired arguement and overstated, as he has been getting marginally better over the last few seasons.

Starting Lee would be bad news, like the bears, for Cleveland, they would have no answer for him, he would lace Tristan and Mozgovs shoes and blow by them driving to the rim with ease. If he hits his outside jumper early it's game over because if his shot is falling and Curry has even an average night offensively, the Cavaliers will get blown out.

sf-fanatic
06-11-2015, 03:52 PM
I'd start the 5 that have gotten them to this point but Lee will enter the game with Iggy as the 6th and 7th men for Barnes and Green (unless he's hitting his three point shot).

lol, please
06-11-2015, 03:58 PM
Lee should be playing, he creates space.

Honestly the Warriors should start Curry-Thompson-Iggy-Lee-Bogut

Green and Barnes need to come off the bench for good or until they prove something

x1000. That was our starting 5 the previous two seasons anyway, and the way Iggy is playing right now, and the way Bogut and Green aren't, it's a no brainer. It's a proven formula and Cleveland would be in trouble.

Bruno
06-11-2015, 05:06 PM
they have to play david lee. mo speights shouldn't see another minute this series, and Lee should slightly eat into Barnes/Boguts minutes as well. Lee needs 25 mpg in this series from here out.

SteveNash
06-11-2015, 05:09 PM
they have to play david lee. mo speights shouldn't see another minute this series, and Lee should slightly eat into Barnes/Boguts minutes as well. Lee needs 25 mpg in this series from here out.

Speights was there best player in Game 1 now he shouldn't be getting any minutes.

Lee isn't some panacea that will fix all of GSW's problems. More likely he caught the Cavs a bit off guard and they'll be ready for him this game.

beasted86
06-12-2015, 06:55 AM
Well I'm pretty sure I hit the nail on the head.

Green wasn't the problem. Bogut was the problem.

He did get his "goon" on and laid a hard shot on LeBron in the few minutes he did play, just like his cousin Kendrick Perkins would... but other than that was ineffective. He bumbled his first entry pass out of bounds, nearly got his second stolen by Mozgov, and picked up 3 fouls in 3 minutes.

Give Bogut credit to help the Warriors get where they are now, but he's just a horrible fit in this series.

It's not that Lee is that great and putting then over the top, it's just addition by subtraction.

In the mean time they will have to live with Mozgov getting his easy baskets like the HEAT did against the Pacers with Hibbert. But ultimately understand that playing small is what's best for your offense.

kingsdelez24
06-12-2015, 12:01 PM
Steve Kerr doesn't know how to make adjustments.

Curry has been very disappointing.

Barnes and Dray look completely out of their element.

Bogut is hobbled and injured.

This is a test for the Dubs' "leaders": Kerr and Curry. Neither has shown much leadership so far. Kerr is completely locked into his rotations. Curry is getting harassed by Delly, and moping that things aren't panning out.

The Dubs can still win, but both Kerr and Curry have to show some of the fire that LBJ and Delly have. LBJ and Delly are playing like this is the last series they'll ever play. Delly wound up in the hospital.

Curry and Kerr are acting like they just want to look pretty for the cameras. The Warriors, if they are going to win, are going to have to win ugly. They are going to have to outbattle, outhustle, and outwork a far less talented team.

So far, the warriors are acting like spoiled prima donnas.

I've never read a more inept basketball argument

kingsdelez24
06-12-2015, 12:05 PM
Calling a player like Bogut "the better Kendrick Perkins" is like trying to call Dwyane Wade the "slightly better version of Tony Allen". Makes no sense whatsoever

SLY WILLIAMS
06-12-2015, 12:26 PM
Lee has slowed down a lot (age/injuries) but he still is a very smart player. He is going to give up some points on defense for sure but he is a net positive that really helps the team on offense and on the boards if they keep his minutes at a reasonable level.

KingPosey
06-12-2015, 12:38 PM
He's probably a 3rd big at best at this point. Terrible defender, kills his teams rebounding, and completely lost his shot.

couldn't disagree with the bold more. Lee can rebound.

Sadds The Gr8
06-12-2015, 12:40 PM
couldn't disagree with the bold more. Lee can rebound.
Already said his teams rebound worse when he's on the court. I've read in several articles that his teams rebound %s are better when he's off the court than on.

beasted86
06-12-2015, 01:17 PM
Calling a player like Bogut "the better Kendrick Perkins" is like trying to call Dwyane Wade the "slightly better version of Tony Allen". Makes no sense whatsoever

Their per 36 numbers are similar. They have the same type of game and role, and their supporters often give them more credit than they deserve for their intangible defensive presence.

Bogut is just a bit better overall. What is there not to understand? Wade and Allen don't even have remotely the same role.

You're making my head hurt. I'm going to stop listening now.

Sadds The Gr8
06-12-2015, 01:25 PM
Their per 36 numbers are similar. They have the same type of game and role, and their supporters often give them more credit than they deserve for their intangible defensive presence.

Bogut is just a bit better overall. What is there not to understand? Wade and Allen don't even have remotely the same role.

You're making my head hurt. I'm going to stop listening now.
Perkins was never the shot blocker/rim protector bogut is. The comparison is bad. Perkins was a post-up defender that just relied on strength to push ppl.

Better comparison would be hibbert of last playoffs, when he was scoring 0 pts multiple times and killed Indiana's offense.

kingsdelez24
06-12-2015, 04:22 PM
Calling a player like Bogut "the better Kendrick Perkins" is like trying to call Dwyane Wade the "slightly better version of Tony Allen". Makes no sense whatsoever

Their per 36 numbers are similar. They have the same type of game and role, and their supporters often give them more credit than they deserve for their intangible defensive presence.

Bogut is just a bit better overall. What is there not to understand? Wade and Allen don't even have remotely the same role.

You're making my head hurt. I'm going to stop listening now.

Bogut can actually post up, pass, doesn't take 9 steps while deciding which foot to pivot with, posesses the ability to jump in general...

"You're making my head hurt, I'm going to stop listening now"

Bruno
06-12-2015, 04:55 PM
Speights was there best player in Game 1 now he shouldn't be getting any minutes.

Lee isn't some panacea that will fix all of GSW's problems. More likely he caught the Cavs a bit off guard and they'll be ready for him this game.

he was their best player in game one? in eight minutes of action? Iggy has been the best player in ever Warrior victory this series, imo. Mo didn't get off the bench last night until there was two minutes left in the game. Lee was +4 in his 16 minutes. He has three assists, which is one assist short of Mos playoff total for assists this year. he caught the Cavs off guard for sure but he's still the right fit for the reserve minutes with his ability help the warriors play like they're the warriors, caught off guard or not.

bogut has been great through the playoffs but this series is a poor fit for him.

ewing
06-13-2015, 10:09 AM
he was their best player in game one? in eight minutes of action? Iggy has been the best player in ever Warrior victory this series, imo. Mo didn't get off the bench last night until there was two minutes left in the game. Lee was +4 in his 16 minutes. He has three assists, which is one assist short of Mos playoff total for assists this year. he caught the Cavs off guard for sure but he's still the right fit for the reserve minutes with his ability help the warriors play like they're the warriors, caught off guard or not.

bogut has been great through the playoffs but this series is a poor fit for him.


hey in those 8 mins. he shot it every time he touched it and a couple went in

Jamiecballer
06-14-2015, 08:09 PM
I'd really like him in Toronto

smith&wesson
06-14-2015, 08:30 PM
I personally think that D. Green will get offers from other teams that GSW wont match and Lee will return to the starting line up for the last year of his contract before he expires.

then GSW go after Durant with all the money that comes off the books after next season.

THE MTL
06-14-2015, 08:31 PM
I hope he gets traded. He is still an allstar caliber player and he's rotting on the bench.

lol, please
06-14-2015, 08:41 PM
I hope he gets traded. He is still an allstar caliber player and he's rotting on the bench.
He will start for us again when Detroit pays Green a fortune and he goes on to form the Bad boys Pistons: the next generation

LA_Raiders
06-15-2015, 01:32 AM
What about bogut? Was that dude traded during the finals or what?

TrueFan420
06-15-2015, 01:36 AM
I personally think that D. Green will get offers from other teams that GSW wont match and Lee will return to the starting line up for the last year of his contract before he expires.

then GSW go after Durant with all the money that comes off the books after next season.
Green will be back its Barnes that will be too expensive to keep after paying Green... Unless we drop Lee some how.

TrueFan420
06-15-2015, 01:39 AM
What about bogut? Was that dude traded during the finals or what?

Just a bad match up. We wouldn't be here without him on the roster. Grizz/Rockets he was a must.

Sadds The Gr8
06-15-2015, 01:41 AM
I personally think that D. Green will get offers from other teams that GSW wont match and Lee will return to the starting line up for the last year of his contract before he expires.

then GSW go after Durant with all the money that comes off the books after next season.
Nah gsw will match any green offer

Sadds The Gr8
06-15-2015, 01:41 AM
I'd really like him in Toronto
If he comes as a cheap 3rd big, sure. Other than that. Nah