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View Full Version : Should the Western Conference secede?



DemarDerozan
06-06-2015, 04:57 PM
If the Dubbs win this year the record of west teams vs east will be 12-4 since 1999. The talent has been uneven for the better part of a decade and a certain superstar has had a cake walk to the Finals for five straight years just by playing in the weakest conference in the history of the league.
I'm surprised this hasn't come up in the past. Good owners like Cuban and Robert Pera continue to invest $ into their teams and push them to the brink just so a team from an undeserving conference can have a shot at the title.
I say abandon the Eastern Conference and create a new league. Drop the Wolves and Kings and absorb Detroit, Indy, Boston and Chicago. Then you have an even playing field. Players that are leftovers can be had in what would be the opposite of an expansion draft.
Also it would stock up the quality in the d league.

Goose17
06-06-2015, 05:17 PM
:sigh:

Minimal
06-06-2015, 06:12 PM
You pretty much suck at business, don't you?

DemarDerozan
06-06-2015, 08:08 PM
You pretty much suck at business, don't you?

Oh an embittered cHeat fan. Surprised you would be more interested in the business of basketball rather than competetiveness.

beasted86
06-06-2015, 08:08 PM
Since 1999, the HEAT x 3, Celtics x 1, and Pistons x 1 have won. So how did you come up with 12-4?

But why did you start in 1999 anyway and forget the previous 10 years where the East won 8 out of 10? Doesn't fit the agenda? Oh, my bad.

Last 17 years it was 12-5 in favor of the West (with the assumption GSW wins). The 17 seasons before 1999 were 11-6 in favor of the East. Seems pretty equal to me.

This is just a trend and your idea is that of someone who should just get over it that it's not changing anytime soon.

DemarDerozan
06-06-2015, 08:11 PM
I mean the Knicks and Sixers are pretty much already Dleague teams. The only real b level star among the two is Melo and he will be playing in China within the next 2-3 years.

DemarDerozan
06-06-2015, 08:13 PM
Since 1999, the HEAT x 3, Celtics x 1, and Pistons x 1 have won. So how did you come up with 12-4?

But why did you start in 1999 anyway and forget the previous 10 years where the East won 8 out of 10? Doesn't fit the agenda? Oh, my bad.

Last 17 years it was 12-5 in favor of the West (with the assumption GSW wins). The 17 seasons before 1999 were 11-6 in favor of the East. Seems pretty equal to me.

This is just a trend and your idea is that of someone who should just get over it that it's not changing anytime soon.

My bad 11-5. And still the most watered down conference since 2005. Name one year that the ECF was actually a real competition? It's a joke. It has been universally accepted that the East is been weaker than the West since Boston last won... And probably was before that.

beasted86
06-06-2015, 08:18 PM
My bad 11-5. And still the most watered down conference since 2005. Name one year that the ECF was actually a real competition? It's a joke. It has been universally accepted that the East is been weaker than the West since Boston last won... And probably was before that.

Yeah. You should probably just get over it. And quit trolling while you're at it.

basch152
06-06-2015, 08:55 PM
Since 1999, the HEAT x 3, Celtics x 1, and Pistons x 1 have won. So how did you come up with 12-4?

But why did you start in 1999 anyway and forget the previous 10 years where the East won 8 out of 10? Doesn't fit the agenda? Oh, my bad.

Last 17 years it was 12-5 in favor of the West (with the assumption GSW wins). The 17 seasons before 1999 were 11-6 in favor of the East. Seems pretty equal to me.

This is just a trend and your idea is that of someone who should just get over it that it's not changing anytime soon.

The only reason the years before 1999 favor the east is because the GOAT won 6 championships... that doesn't mean the east was a good conference.

You also somehow think that just because one conference won the championship one year it somehow means that conference wasn't weak that year when that simply isn't true.

Having one good team coast through the playoffs and then pull off a series against a team that has likely had 3 grueling series to get out of the west doesn't mean anything.

The east has been weak the entire last 15 years.

The only good teams during this era were the Celtics for like 3 years, the Pistons, pacers for a few years, the Heat for a few years, and that's really about it.

Meanwhile in the west both Dallas and San Antonio have been competing for championships for about the entirely of the last 15 years, Phoenix for a good 8 or so of those years, LA for about 10 of those years, Sacramento had a few big years, and there have been several other teams that have been in legitimate championship contention for several years.

xxplayerxx23
06-06-2015, 09:25 PM
I mean the Knicks and Sixers are pretty much already Dleague teams. The only real b level star among the two is Melo and he will be playing in China within the next 2-3 years.


China :laugh:

buck4493
06-06-2015, 10:16 PM
Dallas has been competing for last 15 years for titles?? Not sure what league u have been watching.

Andrew32
06-06-2015, 11:03 PM
Should the East have seceded in the 80's?
Anyway if anything I think the league should contract and get rid of a few teams.
Reduce the number of teams to 20-25 and you'd be able to condense more of the overall talent.

DemarDerozan
06-07-2015, 12:42 AM
Should the East have seceded in the 80's?
Anyway if anything I think the league should contract and get rid of a few teams.
Reduce the number of teams to 20-25 and you'd be able to condense more of the overall talent.

That's where I was going. The Knicks/Sixers thing was kind of a joke... MSG is the Holy Grail of basketball. But the league could do without a few teams and be more competetive in the process. They lose Minny, Sac, Phoenix, Milwaukee, ATL, Charlotte (sorry MJ), Orlando, and BKN. The Flagship team for the new DLeague would be MIami... They need a fresh start.

TylerSL
06-07-2015, 01:01 AM
If the Dubbs win this year the record of west teams vs east will be 12-4 since 1999. The talent has been uneven for the better part of a decade and a certain superstar has had a cake walk to the Finals for five straight years just by playing in the weakest conference in the history of the league.
I'm surprised this hasn't come up in the past. Good owners like Cuban and Robert Pera continue to invest $ into their teams and push them to the brink just so a team from an undeserving conference can have a shot at the title.
I say abandon the Eastern Conference and create a new league. Drop the Wolves and Kings and absorb Detroit, Indy, Boston and Chicago. Then you have an even playing field. Players that are leftovers can be had in what would be the opposite of an expansion draft.
Also it would stock up the quality in the d league.

First of all that's not true, it's 12-5 (04 Pistons, 06 Heat, 08 Celtics, 12 Heat, 13 Heat) and the current system isn't that bad off.

KB24PG16
06-07-2015, 02:10 AM
I lol'd. 10/10 would recommend to friend

effen5
06-07-2015, 11:45 AM
I hope demar is still in school

Scoots
06-07-2015, 12:28 PM
Props to OP for "secede" :)

I think the West should just move in and take over the East ... add the bottom half of the East to the D-league so every team can have a D-league affiliate :) Of course since the Warriors are from Philly they should get the current 76ers roster and draft picks for the foreseeable future.

Alan Shore
06-07-2015, 01:44 PM
Well It don't look any better now, Towns and Okafor are gonna be in west as well. In 3 years it could be full fledged hell in West.

Scoots
06-07-2015, 02:10 PM
Well It don't look any better now, Towns and Okafor are gonna be in west as well. In 3 years it could be full fledged hell in West.

It's been pretty bad the last 3 years too.

BoSox47
06-07-2015, 02:32 PM
My bad 11-5. And still the most watered down conference since 2005. Name one year that the ECF was actually a real competition? It's a joke. It has been universally accepted that the East is been weaker than the West since Boston last won... And probably was before that.

In 5-8 years it will flip over again. All the teams in the east that are getting picks early in the first will start to develop stronger teams and the west will have players being drafted in the late first round and everything will switch and the eastern conference will be good again... 10 years after that it will most likely flip again.

kubernetes
06-07-2015, 03:51 PM
Oh an embittered cHeat fan. Surprised you would be more interested in the business of basketball rather than competetiveness.

He's right though-- your idea sucks balls.

There's nothing inherently wrong with EC teams (just like there was nothing more inherently wrong about WC teams in past decades). It will even out, likely sooner rather than later because Lebron's unquestioned dominance is probably coming to an end.

Scoots
06-07-2015, 03:51 PM
In 5-8 years it will flip over again. All the teams in the east that are getting picks early in the first will start to develop stronger teams and the west will have players being drafted in the late first round and everything will switch and the eastern conference will be good again... 10 years after that it will most likely flip again.

There is a tendency to flip back and forth, but the East has been the significantly weaker conference for nearly 20 years now. It's supposed to go back the other way but there really isn't any indication it's on the horizon. The best teams are in the West and the best young teams are in the West and the best up and coming teams are in the West. So, yeah, it will flip back eventually ... but I don't see it in the immediate future.

Goose17
06-07-2015, 04:16 PM
Just redraw the lines geographically.

There's no reason Memphis couldn't be in the East. Them combined with a healthy Indiana, Cavs, Atlanta and Chicago would be an improvement. Any free agents from the West should be heading East (if they're not staying with their team) I don't see why you wouldn't. Easier road in the playoffs. Unless they want to be in the West because they want to compete with the best?

Let's say Memphis was moved East and the West got an expansion team (Seattle preferrably). That's one extra contender out east. Plus you have to figure SOMEONE will manage to sign a top tier free agent.

Cal827
06-07-2015, 04:27 PM
My bad 11-5. And still the most watered down conference since 2005. Name one year that the ECF was actually a real competition? It's a joke. It has been universally accepted that the East is been weaker than the West since Boston last won... And probably was before that.

2005: Detroit over Miami 4-3
2006: Miami over Detroit 4-2
2007: Cleveland over Detroit: 4-2
2008: Boston over Detroit 4-2
2009: Orlando over Cleveland: 4-2
2010: Boston over Orlando: 4-2
2011: Miami over Chicago: 4-1
2012: Miami over Boston: 4-3
2013: Miami over Indiana: 4-3
2014: Miami over Indiana: 4-2
2015: Cleveland over Atlanta: 4-0

I would say that these 6 were quite competitive. Technically a bunch of these ended up being upsets based on seeding (2005, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2015)

Using your argument on the conference finals, we should be more pissed over the West: Since 2005, the following results were

2005: San Antonio over Phoenix: 4-1
2006: Dallas over Phoenix: 4-2
2007: San Antonio over Utah: 4-1
2008: LA over San Antonio 4-1
2009: LA over Denver: 4-2
2010: LA over Phoenix: 4-2
2011: Dallas over OKC: 4-1
2012: OKC over San Antonio: 4-2
2013: San Antonio over Memphis: 4-0
2014: San Antonio over OKC: 4-2
2015: Golden State over Houston: 4-1


:laugh2: Not so much in the West. There were some upsets based on the seeding (2005, 2006, 2012) but the series haven't been as competitive as you would expect in the extremely tough Western Conference. The last 7 game conference finals in the west was 2002 between the Lakers and Kings.

Also, as the others were saying, it'll eventually even out (hell it might be from the Jordan era right now). Soon enough the East will have the better teams again.

And nobody needs to contract. Assuming that you're the same team fan as I am (looking at your PSD name), probably don't want to trigger people here :laugh2:

Shady66
06-07-2015, 04:32 PM
Makes sense. Oh wait no it doesn't

Hawkeye15
06-07-2015, 04:33 PM
In 5-8 years it will flip over again. All the teams in the east that are getting picks early in the first will start to develop stronger teams and the west will have players being drafted in the late first round and everything will switch and the eastern conference will be good again... 10 years after that it will most likely flip again.

problem is, the east has been weaker (to different levels), for 30-33 years now. The better owners/front offices have been in the west that entire time. Nothing will change, until the east starts infusing better talent in the front offices.

It's the whole rich versus the poor thing. Take all the money away from the rich people and give it to the poor people, and the rich people will have it back shortly. Take all the players from the west and flip them with all the players in the east, and it won't be long before the west is the stronger conference again. They have brighter people running teams.

D-Leethal
06-07-2015, 04:42 PM
Since 1999, the HEAT x 3, Celtics x 1, and Pistons x 1 have won. So how did you come up with 12-4?

But why did you start in 1999 anyway and forget the previous 10 years where the East won 8 out of 10? Doesn't fit the agenda? Oh, my bad.

Last 17 years it was 12-5 in favor of the West (with the assumption GSW wins). The 17 seasons before 1999 were 11-6 in favor of the East. Seems pretty equal to me.

This is just a trend and your idea is that of someone who should just get over it that it's not changing anytime soon.

I would imagine he chose 1999 because it was post-MJ. I think that was a fair starting point.

THE MTL
06-07-2015, 05:11 PM
If the Dubbs win this year the record of west teams vs east will be 12-4 since 1999. The talent has been uneven for the better part of a decade and a certain superstar has had a cake walk to the Finals for five straight years just by playing in the weakest conference in the history of the league.
I'm surprised this hasn't come up in the past. Good owners like Cuban and Robert Pera continue to invest $ into their teams and push them to the brink just so a team from an undeserving conference can have a shot at the title.
I say abandon the Eastern Conference and create a new league. Drop the Wolves and Kings and absorb Detroit, Indy, Boston and Chicago. Then you have an even playing field. Players that are leftovers can be had in what would be the opposite of an expansion draft.
Also it would stock up the quality in the d league.

Its more than just talent level but you are not factoring in $$$. A lot of your money makers are in the East.

Hangtime
06-07-2015, 09:29 PM
And yet we spent an entire decade with the western conference primarily being represented by just two teams. Lakers and Spurs every year with the exception of the Mavs in 2006 who got beat by the Heat. Enter the new decade and we still saw Mavs once and Spurs twice. Thunder got beat by Heat. The Warriors could be the only western conference team since 1999 beside Spurs,Lakers, Mavs to win a title. Looks like the same teams were dominating.

Ty Fast
06-07-2015, 11:23 PM
The Raiders won the Super Bowl in 1983. The next AFC team to win it was Denver in 1997. Should they have gotten rid of the AFC??

And are you saying they shoud get rid of New York? You lost all crediblity when you said that.

Yanks All Day
06-09-2015, 09:41 AM
It's not about East vs. West. The NBA is about stars. That's it.

Bill Russell's Celtics.
Magic and Kareem's Lakers
Bird and co.'s Celtics.
Kobe and Shaq's Lakers
Michael Jordan's Bulls
Duncan and Pop's Spurs

Now, it's whatever team LeBron is on. Stars dominate the NBA. That's why "The West" has won so many recent Finals. Outside of the Mavs, it's been the Spurs and Lakers. That's not one conference dominating the other. It's star players and teams dominating the league. You don't see the Clippers, Rockets, Thunder, and Trainblazers in the Finals every year. Nor do you see the Pacers, Raptors, Wizards, etc. You see whatever teams the best players are on.

Is the West as a whole better? Yes. Top to bottom, there is more talent. But let's not act like any team that wins the West automatically wins the Finals. Great players win championships in the NBA 98% of the time. That's why they win multiple championships and dominate the league for years. But this notion that the West has always been better and will always be better is ridiculous. The league is cyclical.

nastynice
06-09-2015, 03:32 PM
Since 1999, the HEAT x 3, Celtics x 1, and Pistons x 1 have won. So how did you come up with 12-4?

But why did you start in 1999 anyway and forget the previous 10 years where the East won 8 out of 10? Doesn't fit the agenda? Oh, my bad.

Last 17 years it was 12-5 in favor of the West (with the assumption GSW wins). The 17 seasons before 1999 were 11-6 in favor of the East. Seems pretty equal to me.

This is just a trend and your idea is that of someone who should just get over it that it's not changing anytime soon.

I think there's a bit more to it than just finals record. East has been sad ever since Jordan left, they had a good Pistons team, some yrs of good pacers, spurts of good from celtics, Bulls, and heat. Outside of that, it's def been super weak since late 90's.

The west before that was still a good conf, robinsons Spurs, the rockets, and Jazz all played long stretches of high high level ball, even all the teams the Bulls beat were legit, the Suns, blazers, lakers were all great teams when they played

Jamiecballer
06-09-2015, 04:32 PM
If the Dubbs win this year the record of west teams vs east will be 12-4 since 1999. The talent has been uneven for the better part of a decade and a certain superstar has had a cake walk to the Finals for five straight years just by playing in the weakest conference in the history of the league.
I'm surprised this hasn't come up in the past. Good owners like Cuban and Robert Pera continue to invest $ into their teams and push them to the brink just so a team from an undeserving conference can have a shot at the title.
I say abandon the Eastern Conference and create a new league. Drop the Wolves and Kings and absorb Detroit, Indy, Boston and Chicago. Then you have an even playing field. Players that are leftovers can be had in what would be the opposite of an expansion draft.
Also it would stock up the quality in the d league.

:laugh:

sure, what the hell. i can make the drive up to detroit just as easy.

Jamiecballer
06-09-2015, 04:32 PM
yes. lets get rid of every team and every player actually. Except Lebron. wel stick him at half court and watch him jerk off for 2 uninterrupted hours

shouldn't we be the ones jerking off?? that doesn't make any sense.

MonroeFAN
06-10-2015, 09:55 AM
Who cares about since 1999 (your numbers are wrong btw)? Since 2003 it's 7 - 5, and it doesn't look good for the WC this year.

Shaq is gone, TD is on his way out. What you have now is a bunch of softies.

canzano55
06-10-2015, 01:05 PM
I can always rely on the NBA forum for a good chuckle now and again. 😄

ewing
06-10-2015, 03:08 PM
Totally

lol, please
06-10-2015, 03:28 PM
China [emoji23]
Chinas basketball school is nothing to scoff at. They produced an ATG in Yao Ming