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View Full Version : Easier case to be made? Pippen for FMVP w/Jordan or Kobe for FMVP w/Shaq



valade16
06-04-2015, 09:59 AM
Which do you think would be easier to argue, that Pippen deserved a Finals MVP during the Bulls 6 Championships or that Kobe deserved a Finals MVP during the Shaq/Kobe 3Peat?

Could a case be made for either, if so which year(s)?

Do you not think it's possible to make a case?

Vince70
06-04-2015, 10:34 AM
Shaq's numbers in those Finals.


00: 38.0ppg....16.7rb....2.3ast....2.7blk....61.1FG%

01: 33.0ppg....15.8rb....4.8ast....3.4blk....57.3FG%

02: 36.3ppg....12.3rb....3.8ast....2.8blk....59.5FG%


Kobe never had a chance in those years.

koreancabbage
06-04-2015, 10:42 AM
pretty much the last option in the poll. none of them

Tony_Starks
06-04-2015, 11:07 AM
Neither. MJ and Pip didn't take turns leading the team and Kobe's work was done in the Western playoff battles, the real Finals. The NBA Finals was just were Kobe/Shaq went to pick up the trophy's...

JBJoo
06-04-2015, 01:02 PM
Which do you think would be easier to argue, that Pippen deserved a Finals MVP during the Bulls 6 Championships or that Kobe deserved a Finals MVP during the Shaq/Kobe 3Peat?

Could a case be made for either, if so which year(s)?

Do you not think it's possible to make a case?

I know in the 96 season Jordan won the finals MVP, but the big difference maker on that time compared to the Sonics was Rodman. Seattle matched well all over the floor (especially once Gary started guarding Jordan). We got dominated in the paint so bad that we decided to sign Jim MclVaine to one of the worst deals in sports history.

That being said Jordan probably deserved all his finals MVPs.

Bruno
06-04-2015, 06:09 PM
Finals MVPs is about performance in the finals, as opposed to the playoffs on a whole. thats how we come to peace with Tony parker stealing Duncans 2007 Finals MVP. Shaq always dominated the weak eastern teams in the finals. LAL was never seriously challenge in the finals when they won. for that reason, it makes zero difference if Kobe lead the 2001 Lakers in post-season win-shares or destroyed San Antonio in the defacto 2001 NBA finals, Shaq dominated the actual finals.

the last option.

Chronz
06-04-2015, 06:14 PM
make it playoff mvp. kb8 is closer. otherwise its mj vs teammates

More-Than-Most
06-04-2015, 06:22 PM
Shaq could have won the finals by himself with his performance sorry.

Bruno
06-04-2015, 06:24 PM
Shaq could have won the finals by himself with his performance sorry.

Shaq had two game sevens in the western conference finals during the threepeat. how is he even making it to the finals by himself?

More-Than-Most
06-04-2015, 06:50 PM
Shaq had two game sevens in the western conference finals during the threepeat. how is he even making it to the finals by himself?

ok i will rephrase... shaq could have carried anyone to a win those years with how dominant and unstoppable he was. I have said it forever he is the most dominant player any of us will ever see with James being 2nd.... you had to defend everyone else and pray you would win while letting shaq do his thing.

Ty22Mitchell
06-04-2015, 06:58 PM
Neither. MJ and Pip didn't take turns leading the team and Kobe's work was done in the Western playoff battles, the real Finals. The NBA Finals was just were Kobe/Shaq went to pick up the trophy's...

F**king hilarious!!!!

More-Than-Most
06-04-2015, 07:01 PM
Neither. MJ and Pip didn't take turns leading the team and Kobe's work was done in the Western playoff battles, the real Finals. The NBA Finals was just were Kobe/Shaq went to pick up the trophy's...

only team to beat them in a game the 1 year was from which conference exactly?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rmi91E3SMiI

IKnowHoops
06-04-2015, 07:03 PM
Shaq's numbers in those Finals.


00: 38.0ppg....16.7rb....2.3ast....2.7blk....61.1FG%

01: 33.0ppg....15.8rb....4.8ast....3.4blk....57.3FG%

02: 36.3ppg....12.3rb....3.8ast....2.8blk....59.5FG%


Kobe never had a chance in those years.

Ick...neither had any chance at all.

IKnowHoops
06-04-2015, 07:04 PM
Neither. MJ and Pip didn't take turns leading the team and Kobe's work was done in the Western playoff battles, the real Finals. The NBA Finals was just were Kobe/Shaq went to pick up the trophy's...

Accept for that time they lost to Detroit...remember that one, lmbo

GREATNESS ONE
06-04-2015, 07:16 PM
Neither. MJ and Pip didn't take turns leading the team and Kobe's work was done in the Western playoff battles, the real Finals. The NBA Finals was just were Kobe/Shaq went to pick up the trophy's...

This.

IKnowHoops
06-04-2015, 07:40 PM
I think Pippen was a better second fiddle because he complimented Jordan better. He was able to guard the other teams best player all the time, and never overstepped his boundaries. He always played to compliment what Mike was doing. Kobe was at times a detriment to Shaq's/the team's production where as Pippen was always helping Mike produce at optimal levels.

Andrew32
06-04-2015, 09:03 PM
LAL was never seriously challenge in the finals when they won.


We still shouldn't downplay Shaq's epic Finals performances.
Indiana doubled Shaq off the ball and triple teamed him constantly.

Not easy to have a near 40/20 series when facing that kind of attention regardless of the opposition.
Plus Dale Davis was a big strong dude and a good m2m defender and Smits was a huge body if not much else.

Then in 2001 Shaq put up incredible numbers against DPOY Mutombo.
No way anyone can minimize the impressiveness of that performance.


it makes zero difference if Kobe lead the 2001 Lakers in post-season win-shares

Well in terms of WSP48 he was actually tied with Shaq.
He led the run by a small margin because he played more minutes overall due to Phil resting Shaq earlier in blowout wins.
Shaq on the other hand maintained a large edge in playoff PER (25 to 28.7).


or destroyed San Antonio in the defacto 2001 NBA finals

Eh. That Spurs team was good but they weren't that great.
They had Duncan who was amazing, Robinson who was well past his Prime but was still having his last decent year and then pretty much just old scrubs.

I would actually say that Sacramento was their best opponent in that run and Shaq was the clear MVP of that series.
Point differential strongly agrees with that opinion.

Raps18-19 Champ
06-04-2015, 09:32 PM
Neither.

JasonJohnHorn
06-04-2015, 09:57 PM
Shaq was hands down the finals MVP each year, and arguable had the best series of any player in the 04 finals as well.


As for Pippen, I would say that he had finals performances that were as good as Kobe's, specifically on the defensive and, in terms of passing, and in terms of rebounding, but Jackson/Jordan never gave Pippen the scoring load in the finals. He was there to spread the floor. Jordan drew the double team, Pippen kept a perimeter defender on him, and that opened things up for guys like Kerr, and forced guys doubling Jordan to have to be ready to slid over when the ball moved.

Kobe's 2000 run wasn't as good as any of Pippen's, but his 2001 and 2002 was better than any of Pippen's.

The problem for Pippen is that he has a similar skill set as Jordan and Jordan is the GOAT. So obviously he's getting the touches in the finals, and that hits Pip's numbers.

Kobe and Shaq had widely different skill sets, so there was no overlap.

Had Jordan played with Hakeem instead of Pippen, they would have likely split their MVPs up. Kobe playing with Shaq though... he just didn't dominate for his team, and a lot of his open looks and shots were dependent on Shaq opening things up for him.

FlashBolt
06-04-2015, 10:33 PM
This is such a stupid question. That three peat was Shaq, Shaq, and Shaq finals dominance. The most dominating finals three peat.

Andrew32
06-04-2015, 11:17 PM
Kobe's 2000 run wasn't as good as any of Pippen's, but his 2001 and 2002 was better than any of Pippen's.

Pippen had runs better then Kobe's 2002 run or atleast comparable ones.

2002 Kobe : 26.6 / 6 / 4.6-apg on 51%TS --- (20.5 PER)
1991 Pippen : 21.6 / 9 / 5.8-apg on 56%TS --- (22.0 PER)
1992 Pippen : 19.5 / 9 / 6.7-apg on 54%TS

Comparable offensive production on better efficiency and obviously Pippen was much better on the defensive end.

Kobe honestly wasn't much better in the 02 playoffs then he was in the 00 playoffs.
The big difference is he was great in the 02 Finals but he was probably better against the West in 2000.

Teufelshunde4
06-04-2015, 11:25 PM
I know in the 96 season Jordan won the finals MVP, but the big difference maker on that time compared to the Sonics was Rodman. Seattle matched well all over the floor (especially once Gary started guarding Jordan). We got dominated in the paint so bad that we decided to sign Jim MclVaine to one of the worst deals in sports history.

That being said Jordan probably deserved all his finals MVPs.

Athletically the Sonics matched up well in a few spots. But dont act like Payton held MJ down in that series... MJ didnt need to carry thre Bulls that year simply because the 95-96 was as complete a team as there has been 1-12 roster.. Harper, Mj and Pip Could all play 1 thru 3 spot at any point during the game..

Dade County
06-05-2015, 12:30 AM
No one playing along side Shaq, gets the Final's Mvp but him :laugh2:



And Kobe is a little better then pippen over all; but OP maybe you should have used other duo's, it's a good thread topic, it's just that Kobe & pippean can't match up to their counter parts.


I know Shaq doesn't get a lot of love, but to me Shaq is ahead of Kobe in the all time grate department.

hidalgo
06-05-2015, 08:59 AM
the 2000 Pacers were no joke whatsoever, & could have won it all. that was a close finals. probably the 2nd best pacers team only behind the 1998 Pacers. they were better than the 2000 Blazers imo, or just as good. like someone else said, what Shaq did to them was amazing . Pacers were legit all day

2001 76ers, obviously better than the west teams, because LA CRUSHED the west, & somewhat struggled with Philly a bit. the 76ers defense was great. Shaq putting those numbers on DPOTY Mutombo like he was chopped liver. bonkers

2002 Nets. yea, they were dead meat waiting. Shaq killed them, & they were bad at guarding really good 2 guards too. (old MJ put 41 on them that pre season, & 43 on them as a 40 year old the next year). they were just happy to be in the finals, & they knew they were doomed. still what Shaq did was impressive, & easily deserved fmvp

valade16
06-05-2015, 09:13 AM
the 2000 Pacers were no joke whatsoever, & could have won it all. that was a close finals. probably the 2nd best pacers team only behind the 1998 Pacers. they were better than the 2000 Blazers imo, or just as good. like someone else said, what Shaq did to them was amazing . Pacers were legit all day

2001 76ers, obviously better than the west teams, because LA CRUSHED the west, & somewhat struggled with Philly a bit. the 76ers defense was great. Shaq putting those numbers on DPOTY Mutombo like he was chopped liver. bonkers

2002 Nets. yea, they were dead meat waiting. Shaq killed them, & they were bad at guarding really good 2 guards too. (old MJ put 41 on them that pre season, & 43 on them as a 40 year old the next year). they were just happy to be in the finals, & they knew they were doomed. still what Shaq did was impressive, & easily deserved fmvp

Maybe we're remembering things differently because I remember even in 2000 everyone was saying the WCF was the true Championship and whichever of the Lakers or Blazers made it to the Finals was going to beat Indiana.

Similarly, I don't think the 76ers gave LA much trouble. They stole 1 game (from what I remember) in part because LA had a long layoff after their last series win.