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View Full Version : Can Melo and Gasol be as good as Harden and Howard?



jeter 2
05-20-2015, 07:49 PM
New Yorkers are angry especially the Knick fan. The Knick fan is pist that they didn't tank right but this could be a blessing. It allows them to focus on getting a big man. Most likely, they may end up with Greg Monroe or Tobias Harris and a few role players.

But I gotta ask this question. Marc Gasol is the best center in the NBA. What would happen if he teamed with Carmelo, arguably the third best Small Forward behind James and Durant. What would happen if they mesh? Would Gasol and Melo tandem be just as good as Harden and Howard?

I have to say yes. Gasol is a better scorer and defender than Howard. Best of all, he makes his free throws. His skills are best suited for the triangle offense. People say Melo is overrated but no one can dare say he can't score the basketball.

Now there's a catch to this. The Knicks have cap space in 2015 and most likely 2016 so their duo can get a lot stronger. If the #4 pick, Mundiay, turns out to be a very good starter, you're looking at a championship team.

I know Marc Gasol went to high school in Memphis and they are a playoff team. But Carmelo Anthony is everything the team lacks. A scorer, a closer, and a winner. Marc Gasol has never played with a talent like Melo. The duo may not win a championship but like I said earlier, they may not end up alone.

Harden and Howard have made the Eastern Conference finals. Do you think Melo and Gasol will be the team that Lebron knocks out every year in the ECF? I'd say I hope Kevin Love leaves so Melo and Gasol can be the team to knock out Lebron.

xxplayerxx23
05-20-2015, 08:05 PM
I mean I think it would work great, melo gasol in the east wins 50 games not sure they take out lebron though

jeter 2
05-20-2015, 08:08 PM
I mean I think it would work great, melo gasol in the east wins 50 games not sure they take out lebron though

Well I said Lebron knocks out.

bucketss
05-20-2015, 08:09 PM
depends on the supporting players, right now the knick role players look pretty bad.

FOXHOUND
05-20-2015, 08:09 PM
This is way, way, way, way too premature.

Signed,

Knicks fan who agrees that they would do a ton of damage in that very BIG IF scenario at this point.

jeter 2
05-20-2015, 08:16 PM
This is way, way, way, way too premature.

Signed,

Knicks fan who agrees that they would do a ton of damage in that very BIG IF scenario at this point.

Well the question is more so if they team up, can they be like Harden and Howard? All these writers say New York is coming out with B level talent. I just wanted to know what these people would say if they actually thought about what would happen if they team up.

Now, I'm not dumb. I know the Knicks may not be that great right now. I just find it dumb to think that the Knicks can't be a contender and a possibly better situation for Gasol especially with Carmelo Anthony and Phil Jackson.

NYKalltheway
05-20-2015, 08:19 PM
Not really.

colinskik
05-20-2015, 08:24 PM
Oh man, I can find at least five points in this post that will have people whining about Knicks fans...

But to answer your question, I don't think a Melo-Gasol duo is better than a (healthy) Harden-Howard duo.

FOXHOUND
05-20-2015, 08:33 PM
Well the question is more so if they team up, can they be like Harden and Howard? All these writers say New York is coming out with B level talent. I just wanted to know what these people would say if they actually thought about what would happen if they team up.

Now, I'm not dumb. I know the Knicks may not be that great right now. I just find it dumb to think that the Knicks can't be a contender and a possibly better situation for Gasol especially with Carmelo Anthony and Phil Jackson.

Well I think the notion is that the Knicks really don't have much of a chance of luring Gasol away from Memphis. It's going to take a lot to pry him away from Memphis, a team like the Spurs have a shot. The Knicks have way too many question marks to think of that as a real possibility at this point. There's the same issue with Aldridge, although yeah you never know. At this point I think the most realistic scenario is the Knicks can get Monroe as far as the bigs go, and I'm perfectly OK with that.

I think you're also asking for trouble bringing up Harden and Howard as a direct comparison. But to answer your question in more detail, I think they would be a great tandem and would work off each other beautifully in the triangle. How good would they be, I don't know how to put a hard number on it, but Melo did lead a team to 54-wins just a few years ago with Tyson Chandler, JR Smith and Raymond Felton as his best help.

Give him Marc Gasol, the #4 overall pick and the cap space to get another $8M player or so PLUS the added MLE after that, plus the role players on the roster like Galloway, Calderon, Hardaway Jr, Early and likely Thanasis and I don't think the notion that they would kick *** is that far fetched.

That scenario is just so far fetched in itself at this point, it hurts to think about.

jeter 2
05-20-2015, 08:45 PM
Well I think the notion is that the Knicks really don't have much of a chance of luring Gasol away from Memphis. It's going to take a lot to pry him away from Memphis, a team like the Spurs have a shot. The Knicks have way too many question marks to think of that as a real possibility at this point. There's the same issue with Aldridge, although yeah you never know. At this point I think the most realistic scenario is the Knicks can get Monroe as far as the bigs go, and I'm perfectly OK with that.

I think you're also asking for trouble bringing up Harden and Howard as a direct comparison. But to answer your question in more detail, I think they would be a great tandem and would work off each other beautifully in the triangle. How good would they be, I don't know how to put a hard number on it, but Melo did lead a team to 54-wins just a few years ago with Tyson Chandler, JR Smith and Raymond Felton as his best help.

Give him Marc Gasol, the #4 overall pick and the cap space to get another $8M player or so PLUS the added MLE after that, plus the role players on the roster like Galloway, Calderon, Hardaway Jr, Early and likely Thanasis and I don't think the notion that they would kick *** is that far fetched.

That scenario is just so far fetched in itself at this point, it hurts to think about.

I am gonna throw one more point out there. I'm not gonna argue that San Antonio is the better because they are. Zach Randolph is going to be 34 this year. How many years does he have left? How big is Memphis' championship window? Will Jeff Green stay?

The more I think about this, New York might be the second best fit after San Antonio for him. At least Melo, Gasol gotta shot at a ring for his entire contract. Memphis is stuck. Once Randolph is done, what are they going to do? Rebuild? Are they even going to be a playoff team? At least New York, you got a kid and Melo.

xxplayerxx23
05-20-2015, 09:03 PM
depends on the supporting players, right now the knick role players look pretty bad.


Well they would have another 9 mill to add another player + the draft pick :shrug:

nycericanguy
05-20-2015, 09:47 PM
Oh man, I can find at least five points in this post that will have people whining about Knicks fans...

But to answer your question, I don't think a Melo-Gasol duo is better than a (healthy) Harden-Howard duo.

I think it is... Melo with a supporting cast is at Harden's level...

Gasol is a better all around C and you can't use the hack on him. Gasol is the type of big Melo has had success with... like Nene & Kmart... defensive guy that only need 12 shots or so and can do other things and let Melo focus on scoring. but can still help a bit on offense.

This thread actually makes a good point though, seeing what Harden & Howard are doing makes me think NY would not be far away if they signed Marc... especially in the East.

More-Than-Most
05-20-2015, 09:55 PM
I think Gasol is better than Howard.... I think Melo is better than Harden... I am not a Melo fan at all but as bad as his defense is he plays better defense than harden... They are both better in my opinion... Melo is more of a diva than Harden though but gasol is way less of a diva than howard... Its interesting.

nycericanguy
05-20-2015, 10:18 PM
I think Gasol is better than Howard.... I think Melo is better than Harden... I am not a Melo fan at all but as bad as his defense is he plays better defense than harden... They are both better in my opinion... Melo is more of a diva than Harden though but gasol is way less of a diva than howard... Its interesting.

and NY could conceivably put a better cast around them...they would still have about $10m to spend, could get them DeMare Carroll or Danny Green. plus they'd have the 2.7m room exception, the #4 pick which could be Winslow or Muiday. plus...

JC
THJR
Galloway

More-Than-Most
05-20-2015, 10:25 PM
and NY could conceivably put a better cast around them...they would still have about $10m to spend, could get them DeMare Carroll or Danny Green. plus they'd have the 2.7m room exception, the #4 pick which could be Winslow or Muiday. plus...

JC
THJR
Galloway

If they can get Gasol I would go all in but if they cant i wouldnt sign much else in free agency... I am not a fan of some of the free agents that the knicks are suppose interested in and think it will keep them pretender status if they try and force retool over just rebuilding.... If they get gasol they are spot on... The only 4 people worth getting are gasol/lenny/butler/jordan... Everyone else is crap.

jeter 2
05-20-2015, 11:16 PM
If they can get Gasol I would go all in but if they cant i wouldnt sign much else in free agency... I am not a fan of some of the free agents that the knicks are suppose interested in and think it will keep them pretender status if they try and force retool over just rebuilding.... If they get gasol they are spot on... The only 4 people worth getting are gasol/lenny/butler/jordan... Everyone else is crap.

I think Tobias Harris or Draymond Green. I think Harris can play the Green role in New York.

IBleedPurple
05-20-2015, 11:25 PM
Marc is not close to the best C in the league, and Melo plus any center are not as good as Harden/Howard. FYI, I severely dislike both Harden/Howard, it's just the Melo effect.

jeter 2
05-20-2015, 11:31 PM
Marc is not close to the best C in the league, and Melo plus any center are not as good as Harden/Howard. FYI, I severely dislike both Harden/Howard, it's just the Melo effect.

Would you trade Mike Conley Jr and Zach Randolph for Carmelo, #4 pick, another player for 10 Mil and 30 mil in cap in 2016?

IBleedPurple
05-20-2015, 11:35 PM
Marc is not close to the best C in the league, and Melo plus any center are not as good as Harden/Howard. FYI, I severely dislike both Harden/Howard, it's just the Melo effect.

Would you trade Mike Conley Jr and Zach Randolph for Carmelo, #4 pick, another player for 10 Mil and 30 mil in cap in 2016?Hypothetical trades have nothing to do with what I said...would you trade a ham sandwich for a turkey sandwich?

jeter 2
05-20-2015, 11:41 PM
Hypothetical trades have nothing to do with what I said...would you trade a ham sandwich for a turkey sandwich?

This wasn't a real trade. If you were Marc Gasol, what would you pick; what the Knicks have or what the Grizzlies have?

IBleedPurple
05-20-2015, 11:52 PM
This wasn't a real trade. If you were Marc Gasol, what would you pick; what the Knicks have or what the Grizzlies have?Knicks, but I feel like you are severely deflecting from what I originally said, and chose to bring up other **** instead. This isn't a future cross my fingers thread or the Knicks are better now/in the future than team x, or what Gasol 2.0 wants.

colinskik
05-21-2015, 12:03 AM
I think it is... Melo with a supporting cast is at Harden's level...

Gasol is a better all around C and you can't use the hack on him. Gasol is the type of big Melo has had success with... like Nene & Kmart... defensive guy that only need 12 shots or so and can do other things and let Melo focus on scoring. but can still help a bit on offense.

This thread actually makes a good point though, seeing what Harden & Howard are doing makes me think NY would not be far away if they signed Marc... especially in the East.

I think it's a closer comparison than I made it seem in my first post, but i'd still give Harden/Howard the advantage.

Harden is coming off an MVP type season; Melo is coming off surgery. At this point in their careers, Harden is more unstoppable than Melo. It may be blasphemous to say this in the main NBA forum as a Knick fan, but as far as "superstars" go, I think Melo is overhyped and resting on his laurels. More often than not these past couple of seasons Melo does not make the right play when it's needed. Harden does make the right play, whether it's a beautiful pass, an unguardable drive to the bucket, a stepback midrange shot, or forcing the ref to blow the whistle. Melo loves to settle for a jumpshot, most often without even using moves to get his defender off balance.

Plus, I still think Howard is one of the best rim protectors in the game--way better than Gasol. Gasol is more of an all around/pesky type of defender whereas Dwight is a scary force in the paint.

This is of course not accounting for any complementary players, strictly the two duos.

More-Than-Most
05-21-2015, 12:07 AM
Marc is not close to the best C in the league, and Melo plus any center are not as good as Harden/Howard. FYI, I severely dislike both Harden/Howard, it's just the Melo effect.

Melo can hold his own against Harden offensively head to head with Harden being slightly better possibly but Melo doesnt get close to the calls that harden gets year in and year out... Defensively is where it separates... Melo is bad but Harden is historically bad.... Melo is the better player and gasol has all the potential of a Howard without any of the drama... This duo has more all around talent than a Harden/Howard

Avenged
05-21-2015, 10:15 AM
Probably not.. BUT in the east it'll balance out. So whereas we might never see the Rockets in the finals, Knicks might make it due to the conference. Obviously they're gonna need alot more than that though.

D-Leethal
05-21-2015, 06:49 PM
If Gasol leaves I think he is leaving for the East. The Western Conference blitzkrieg year after year will be the reason he leaves Memphis. That gives the Knicks a shot.

D-Leethal
05-21-2015, 06:51 PM
Gasol is not close to the best C in the league? What are you smoking?

KnicksorBust
05-21-2015, 07:00 PM
Gasol is not close to the best C in the league? What are you smoking?

Huh? List the better ones.

KnicksorBust
05-21-2015, 07:02 PM
To answer your question, no bc Melo is not nearly as good as Harden.

nycericanguy
05-21-2015, 07:09 PM
To answer your question, no bc Melo is not nearly as good as Harden.

really? based on what? Melo shoots a higher % overall and a higher % from 3.

Harden gets to the line more of course... but I'd say they are pretty equal. Melo can score in more ways, he has the post game and can bang down low.

Harden plays more of a PG role so he'll get more assists but he also turns it over a ton more.

it's debateable but "melo is not nearly as good" is just false IMO. Besides, I would imagine Melo would be a MUCH more efficient player if he got to play with someone like Marc or Howard for that matter.

solid_pro
05-21-2015, 07:11 PM
Let's get one thing straight tho - Harden got the Rockets 56 wins this year. Howard pulled his typical "let's miss most of the regular season and then 'get healthy' for the playoffs." Don't discount Harden - alone that guy is a sicko... pair him with someone who comes to play the whole season and I'm very scared. So sure, Gasol - great work ethic, shows up every game - I like it.

More-Than-Most
05-21-2015, 07:14 PM
Let's get one thing straight tho - Harden got the Rockets 56 wins this year. Howard pulled his typical "let's miss most of the regular season and then 'get healthy' for the playoffs." Don't discount Harden - alone that guy is a sicko... pair him with someone who comes to play the whole season and I'm very scared. So sure, Gasol - great work ethic, shows up every game - I like it.

There was nobody else on the rockets team? Harden was very good but when compared to Melo they both can score... Harden gets to go to the line whenever someone looks at him wrong and Melo as bad as he is on defense players better defense.

solid_pro
05-21-2015, 07:22 PM
There was nobody else on the rockets team? Harden was very good but when compared to Melo they both can score... Harden gets to go to the line whenever someone looks at him wrong and Melo as bad as he is on defense players better defense.

His supporting cast was *good* - Ariza is pretty solid, Jones had a decent season, Brewer gets in there from time to time. But Josh Smith, Beverley, J-Tizzle... eh, nothing special. Motejunas; jury's out on that one.

Good point on Harden's defense though - I gotta agree, he's lacking. Melo might be a bit better there indeed. I actually don't quite understand how Houston won all those games if not Harden so if you can answer that, I'm open to changing my mind.

Tony_Starks
05-21-2015, 07:30 PM
Seeing as Harden and Howard are about to get knocked out of the playoffs is being "as good as" them really something to aspire to? I thought the goal was championships not just being a respectable team.....

Chronz
05-21-2015, 07:35 PM
Seeing as Harden and Howard are about to get knocked out of the playoffs is being "as good as" them really something to aspire to? I thought the goal was championships not just being a respectable team.....

championships arent won by duos, but by TEAMS

solid_pro
05-21-2015, 07:37 PM
championships arent won by duos, but by TEAMS

Love this: Pistons 2004!

solid_pro
05-21-2015, 07:39 PM
And fugg I'm gonna be pissed if that gets violated this year by a Cavs title. Would be a travesty.

nastynice
05-21-2015, 08:10 PM
harden >> melo
Howard << gasol

So I guess it's a push? :shrug:

Neither combo will be able to do **** without role players stepping up

MonroeFAN
05-21-2015, 09:22 PM
I would say both rocket players are better. So no.

Tony_Starks
05-21-2015, 10:00 PM
Seeing as Harden and Howard are about to get knocked out of the playoffs is being "as good as" them really something to aspire to? I thought the goal was championships not just being a respectable team.....

championships arent won by duos, but by TEAMS

It's the team game that is the most influenced by great individual players, true.....

KnicksorBust
05-22-2015, 07:29 AM
really? based on what? Melo shoots a higher % overall and a higher % from 3.

Using FG% is an outdated way to compare shooting efficiency and factually you are incorrect on 3%. Harden is better from 3. A more accurate depiction would be their TS%. Melo's career TS% is 54.6% and peaked as Knick at 56%. Harden's career TS% is 60.7% and he has not been under 60% TS% in any of his 3 seasons in Houston. To begin the debate discussing shooting efficiency was a huge mistake because Harden crushes him.


Harden gets to the line more of course... but I'd say they are pretty equal. Melo can score in more ways, he has the post game and can bang down low.

I'll never understand this devaluing of free throws. As a basketball coach every time we do 1 on 1 full court drills it is all about And 1's. You want to draw the contact and score. Anyway Melo gets 7.6 FTA per game for his career and that is being generous because Melo after 30 is not going to be nearly as explosive as Denver Melo. Harden meanwhile has averaged over 10fta per game in 2 of the last 3 seasons and is clearly on an upward trajectory. Conservatively it's easily an edge for Harden. I also think in the new NBA having your SF play is not nearly as productive as it would have been in the past. Sure it helps if there is a mis-match but Melo's not nearly the passer Harden is out of a double-team and his post-game is significantly less productive than Harden's pick and roll game.


Harden plays more of a PG role so he'll get more assists but he also turns it over a ton more.

I will take an extra 2 turnovers from Harden if it means I'm getting 7apg out of my star player and not a pitiful 3apg. Let's face it, that is one of the main reasons why Carmelo never reached the height of a Kobe-Wade-LeBron. Even more interesting is the value of Harden's assists is far superior to Melo's. Harden led the league in assists leading to 3pt shots. http://grantland.com/the-triangle/james-hardens-holy-mountain-how-the-rocket-man-creates-3-pointers/


it's debateable but "melo is not nearly as good" is just false IMO. Besides, I would imagine Melo would be a MUCH more efficient player if he got to play with someone like Marc or Howard for that matter.

Considering age, scoring ability, passing ability, and efficiency I don't see how you could argue they are close.

Tumstock
05-22-2015, 08:33 AM
Seeing as Harden and Howard are about to get knocked out of the playoffs is being "as good as" them really something to aspire to? I thought the goal was championships not just being a respectable team.....

Knicks haven't been a respectable team for 15 years, it would be a good start imo.

ballallday
05-22-2015, 09:13 AM
Harden and Howard have made the Eastern Conference finals. Do you think Melo and Gasol will be the team that Lebron knocks out every year in the ECF? I'd say I hope Kevin Love leaves so Melo and Gasol can be the team to knock out Lebron.

NO NO NO NO NO and NO!!!!!!

Melo could possibly be the most overrated player in NBA history... not trying to troll but melo is getting up there in age, in his prime couldn't make it to the west finals, was never an mvp or even close, but suddenly since he gets gasol we are going to compare him to harden who is an legit MVP candidate? I know gasol is better then howard but by how much isn't significant enough to make up for melo. On top of that melo has an ego with nothing to back it up with and is an iso type chucker...

knick fans I'm sorry but your team as of now is wack, even if you dumped gasol in there not going anywhere unless you got some other pieces like a pg, sg, pf, bench, coach, etc. Good luck with phil because melo isn't someone who can carry a team. He can take you to the first round, maybe second.

/thread

nycericanguy
05-22-2015, 09:22 AM
Using FG% is an outdated way to compare shooting efficiency and factually you are incorrect on 3%. Harden is better from 3. A more accurate depiction would be their TS%. Melo's career TS% is 54.6% and peaked as Knick at 56%. Harden's career TS% is 60.7% and he has not been under 60% TS% in any of his 3 seasons in Houston. To begin the debate discussing shooting efficiency was a huge mistake because Harden crushes him.



I'll never understand this devaluing of free throws. As a basketball coach every time we do 1 on 1 full court drills it is all about And 1's. You want to draw the contact and score. Anyway Melo gets 7.6 FTA per game for his career and that is being generous because Melo after 30 is not going to be nearly as explosive as Denver Melo. Harden meanwhile has averaged over 10fta per game in 2 of the last 3 seasons and is clearly on an upward trajectory. Conservatively it's easily an edge for Harden. I also think in the new NBA having your SF play is not nearly as productive as it would have been in the past. Sure it helps if there is a mis-match but Melo's not nearly the passer Harden is out of a double-team and his post-game is significantly less productive than Harden's pick and roll game.



I will take an extra 2 turnovers from Harden if it means I'm getting 7apg out of my star player and not a pitiful 3apg. Let's face it, that is one of the main reasons why Carmelo never reached the height of a Kobe-Wade-LeBron. Even more interesting is the value of Harden's assists is far superior to Melo's. Harden led the league in assists leading to 3pt shots. http://grantland.com/the-triangle/james-hardens-holy-mountain-how-the-rocket-man-creates-3-pointers/



Considering age, scoring ability, passing ability, and efficiency I don't see how you could argue they are close.

only a matter of time before someone bought up the TS%...lol

Last year Melo shot better from everywhere on the field but Harden had a better TS% simply because of FT's... FT's are important but if you really realize that the only reason he had a higher ts% was because of FT's it puts things in perspective... FT attempts do require a possession, which people always overlook.

Listen efficiency matters but don't put blinders on either... if Melo played with Howard or Gasol he would be more efficient, thats just the way the game works, having help takes pressure off you. So don't get carried away with TS%... I use it and it has value, but consider context.

Obviously harden is going to get most assists if he plays PG alot, just like Melo gets more rebounds because he plays forward, I dont think that makes either one "better"...

And obviously long term you take Harden because he's younger, but RIGHT NOW, there isn't much of a difference between the two.

Harden is in a good situation right now, Melo hasn't been... thats what it boils down to. Just like Shump, JR, Prigs are in good situations now too.

NYKnickFanatic
05-22-2015, 10:12 AM
Knicks aren't getting Gasol, so it doesn't matter.

D-Leethal
05-22-2015, 10:17 AM
FTs should be isolated - their are their own animal and require the variable of a whistle. eFG is better than TS% if you want to find out who can score the rock more efficiently.

Tony_Starks
05-22-2015, 10:52 AM
Seeing as Harden and Howard are about to get knocked out of the playoffs is being "as good as" them really something to aspire to? I thought the goal was championships not just being a respectable team.....

Knicks haven't been a respectable team for 15 years, it would be a good start imo.

True that but man that's really sad that just trying to be respectable is like the goal for Knicks fans...

xxplayerxx23
05-22-2015, 11:05 AM
NO NO NO NO NO and NO!!!!!!

Melo could possibly be the most overrated player in NBA history... not trying to troll but melo is getting up there in age, in his prime couldn't make it to the west finals, was never an mvp or even close, but suddenly since he gets gasol we are going to compare him to harden who is an legit MVP candidate? I know gasol is better then howard but by how much isn't significant enough to make up for melo. On top of that melo has an ego with nothing to back it up with and is an iso type chucker...

knick fans I'm sorry but your team as of now is wack, even if you dumped gasol in there not going anywhere unless you got some other pieces like a pg, sg, pf, bench, coach, etc. Good luck with phil because melo isn't someone who can carry a team. He can take you to the first round, maybe second.

/thread


Made it to the WCf.. 3rd in MVP voting in 2012..... But when you're right you're right

xxplayerxx23
05-22-2015, 11:06 AM
True that but man that's really sad that just trying to be respectable is like the goal for Knicks fans...

**** I'll take 54-56 wins. Add a solid 10 mill player with melo gasol and the draft pick that's very interesting, might not win this year but then add another piece or two the next season n you got something solid

nycericanguy
05-22-2015, 11:39 AM
True that but man that's really sad that just trying to be respectable is like the goal for Knicks fans...

HOU is in the WCF and has gone toe to toe with GSW... that's far more than "respectable", they are one of the best teams in the league.... you're trying too hard.

Every team wants to win a title, but only 8 teams have won it in the last 32 years... it's the hardest thing to do.

HOU is not far off and has a legit chance... that's all you can ask for. You need some luck too.

raiderposting
05-22-2015, 12:41 PM
Gasol at the 5 and melo at the 4th is a beautiful fit. I just don't see that happening. That said if the Knicks can pull off

Mudiyae
Hardaway Jr.
Carroll
Melo
Gasol

That's no doubt a playoff team that can make noise and depending on how well mudiyae plays and hardaways development they can go deep

raiderposting
05-22-2015, 12:43 PM
**** I'll take 54-56 wins. Add a solid 10 mill player with melo gasol and the draft pick that's very interesting, might not win this year but then add another piece or two the next season n you got something solid

Carroll
Melo
Gasol

That should be a dream for the Knicks because arguably the BPA at 4 is a PG (Emmanuel) which will fill a need too.

da ThRONe
05-22-2015, 01:20 PM
I don't think Gasol/Anthony is better than Howard/Harden, but I think it can be a very efficient pairing especially in the East right now.

If Gasol went to the Knicks it starts a domino effect in Memphis where they clean house. I think they could net significant assets for Conley and Randolph

IKnowHoops
05-22-2015, 01:26 PM
I mean I think it would work great, melo gasol in the east wins 50 games not sure they take out lebron though

I honestly dont see the Knicks winning 50 games just by adding Gasol. And Melo has been surpassed by Harden so I dont see them ever being able to reach Harden and Dwight combo level.

IKnowHoops
05-22-2015, 01:28 PM
Gasol is also operated IMO. 7.5 rebounds? His brother is older and weaker, and can get 11 rebounds. Lebron can get 7.5 rebounds on top of scoring 30 and getting another 7.5 assts. He is a smart player, Ill give him that, but I would not give him a max. Not even close.

Jamiecballer
05-22-2015, 01:47 PM
they could be successful but i wouldn't expect anywhere near as good as Harden and Howard. if Gasol was a better rebounder, particularly on the offensive glass, maybe.

Jamiecballer
05-22-2015, 01:50 PM
Hypothetical trades have nothing to do with what I said...would you trade a ham sandwich for a turkey sandwich?

if you are trading ham you'd best be getting multiple turkey items in return

#truth

ballallday
05-22-2015, 01:51 PM
Made it to the WCf.. 3rd in MVP voting in 2012..... But when you're right you're right

hmmm maybe i overlooked some facts thanks for pointing those out however...

He was in the wcf 6/7 years ago thats a long time past + mvp consideration 3 years ago. Injuries wrong side of 30 he's not your same melo of years past.

3rd in mvp voting on a stacked team and hasn't been considered since or before then. Thanks I'm sticking with melo = overrated

but will find out next year if they get _____ player, or the year after that, or the year after that....

xxplayerxx23
05-22-2015, 02:02 PM
I honestly dont see the Knicks winning 50 games just by adding Gasol. And Melo has been surpassed by Harden so I dont see them ever being able to reach Harden and Dwight combo level.


It's like adding melo and gasol. They win 50 by adding their draft pick and another 10 million dollar player

Verbal Christ
05-22-2015, 02:04 PM
Dude Melo and Gasol would be like a billion times better than Harden/Howard, I mean here on PSD Harden is overrated and Howard is a trash center who isnt very good.

dumb question. LOL

xxplayerxx23
05-22-2015, 02:04 PM
hmmm maybe i overlooked some facts thanks for pointing those out however...

He was in the wcf 6/7 years ago thats a long time past + mvp consideration 3 years ago. Injuries wrong side of 30 he's not your same melo of years past.

3rd in mvp voting on a stacked team and hasn't been considered since or before then. Thanks I'm sticking with melo = overrated

but will find out next year if they get _____ player, or the year after that, or the year after that....

Stacked team lol good one. Jr smith was their second best player enough said. Overrated depends on where you rate him

xxplayerxx23
05-22-2015, 02:05 PM
If gasol committed. Try and get Carroll and see if you can trade for Conley :shrug:

nycericanguy
05-22-2015, 02:25 PM
Gasol is also operated IMO. 7.5 rebounds? His brother is older and weaker, and can get 11 rebounds. Lebron can get 7.5 rebounds on top of scoring 30 and getting another 7.5 assts. He is a smart player, Ill give him that, but I would not give him a max. Not even close.

lol

Don't just look at RPG... Gasol is a damn good rebounder. Why are his RPG kinda low?

Well #1 he plays with Z-bo who gets a ton of rebounds. Just like Blake's RPG have gone down ever since DJ started playing big minutes. It's rare to have two guys on the same team getting 10-12rpg, there just aren't enough rebounds to get!...lol.

#2 he initiates the offense from the high post and top of the key alot. Obviously if you're on the perimeter you're not going to get as many rebounds as a guy like Howard or DJ who live in the paint.

Obviously Marc will get maxed, that's not even the question. Spurs, Lakers, Knicks, MEM... basically any team with cap space is going to have him at the top of the list and offer him max.

jeter 2
05-22-2015, 05:45 PM
If gasol committed. Try and get Carroll and see if you can trade for Conley :shrug:

If the Grizzlies had Melo, they would have beaten Golden State. I think Melo is the one player Gasol needs. San Antonio is great too but I think Aldridge is #1 on their list.

da ThRONe
05-22-2015, 07:09 PM
If gasol committed. Try and get Carroll and see if you can trade for Conley :shrug:

I would trade down with Denver for Ty Lawson. If Denver is in love with which ever PG at 4 it make sense. They are trying to blow that team up anyways.

xxplayerxx23
05-22-2015, 09:31 PM
Doubt they deal Lawson and 7 for 4 doesn't make to much sense to me, I would offer up 2018 + THjR for Lawson if one of the bigs dropped to 4. Realistically if the Knicks could get gasol with either Wes/Green/CArroll then go out and trade for Conley that would be the best offseason I could possibly think of.
Could go small
Conley
Mudiay (assuming we go him)
Wes/green/Carroll
Melo
Gasol

IBleedPurple
05-22-2015, 10:13 PM
Doubt they deal Lawson and 7 for 4 doesn't make to much sense to me, I would offer up 2018 + THjR for Lawson if one of the bigs dropped to 4. Realistically if the Knicks could get gasol with either Wes/Green/CArroll then go out and trade for Conley that would be the best offseason I could possibly think of.
Could go small
Conley
Mudiay (assuming we go him)
Wes/green/Carroll
Melo
GasolNo way Denver does that deal giving up 7, don't think that was mentioned. Lawson for 4 and work out the rest, with more coming from Denver, seems more reasonable.

xxplayerxx23
05-23-2015, 07:59 AM
No way Denver does that deal giving up 7, don't think that was mentioned. Lawson for 4 and work out the rest, with more coming from Denver, seems more reasonable.

Lol I said doubt they did that, no chance Re they getting 4 alone for Lawson injury prone guy stop it,

IBleedPurple
05-23-2015, 08:15 AM
No way Denver does that deal giving up 7, don't think that was mentioned. Lawson for 4 and work out the rest, with more coming from Denver, seems more reasonable.

Lol I said doubt they did that, no chance Re they getting 4 alone for Lawson injury prone guy stop it,That's not what I said....and I was questioning why you brought up giving up 7. Rebuilding teams don't do that.

xxplayerxx23
05-23-2015, 08:38 AM
That's not what I said....and I was questioning why you brought up giving up 7. Rebuilding teams don't do that.

Go re read

da ThRONe
05-23-2015, 11:44 AM
Doubt they deal Lawson and 7 for 4 doesn't make to much sense to me, I would offer up 2018 + THjR for Lawson if one of the bigs dropped to 4. Realistically if the Knicks could get gasol with either Wes/Green/CArroll then go out and trade for Conley that would be the best offseason I could possibly think of.
Could go small
Conley
Mudiay (assuming we go him)
Wes/green/Carroll
Melo
Gasol

This draft is kind of build as a 4 game changers draft with Towns, Okafor, Russell, and Mudiay. At 7 you won't get either. Denver could play hard ball and get some more pieces, but depending on who's there at 4 and how the Nuggets rate that player they could be drafting the franchise piece they need for a guy it's been reported they don't want anymore. Again I could see Denver trying to squeeze more out of New York, but the foundation of the trade of course IMO is very solid for both teams.

jeter 2
05-23-2015, 04:35 PM
No way Denver does that deal giving up 7, don't think that was mentioned. Lawson for 4 and work out the rest, with more coming from Denver, seems more reasonable.

I think Faried and the 7th and for the 4th would work out. Lawson doesn't really fit the triangle. The Knicks need rebounders. Faried is one of the best.

Jamiecballer
05-23-2015, 05:39 PM
Ideal partners for Melo are Tyson Chandler or DeAndre Jordan

FlashBolt
05-23-2015, 05:52 PM
Melo needs a leader and 1st option to succeed. He isn't Harden because he doesn't have the same skillset. Harden has become an all-around player (minus defense) whereas Carmelo is primarily still, just a scorer. He's also not a leader by any means and I think someone on his own team even said that Melo was more of a quiet leader who led by example rather than being vocal (which even though is Tim Duncan, Duncan was an all-around beast). So Melo would need a CP3 type player to truly succeed.

numba1CHANGsta
05-23-2015, 06:23 PM
Offensively:
Dwight>Gasol
Harden>Melo

Defensively:
Dwight=Gasol
Harden>Melo

dtmagnet
05-23-2015, 06:53 PM
No, and Gasol doesn't play for the Knicks.

xxplayerxx23
05-23-2015, 07:13 PM
Offensively:
Dwight>Gasol
Harden>Melo

Defensively:
Dwight=Gasol
Harden>Melo


Gasol>Howard offensively
Harden>Melo offensively it's close tho when Melo is right

Defensicley even for gasol n Howard
Melo >harden

More-Than-Most
05-23-2015, 07:29 PM
Offensively:
Dwight>Gasol
Harden>Melo

Defensively:
Dwight=Gasol
Harden>Melo

:laugh:

Seriously is this forreal? You think Dwight is better Defensively than Gasol? Even if there were an argument i can deal with that but you think Harden is better than melo defensively? Melo could lose a leg tomorrow and he could hop around court with a ****ing nub and still out defense harden.

Offensively its Gasol->Howard and Harden->Melo
Defensively its Gasol>Howard Slightly but Melo----------->Harden by a good bit.

#TheDude
05-23-2015, 09:08 PM
Gasol>Howard offensively
Harden>Melo offensively it's close tho when Melo is right

Defensicley even for gasol n Howard
Melo >harden

I'm going to have to disagree here.

Gasol is heads and shoulders above Howard offensively, not to mention his great basketball IQ, passing ability, and also jump shooting.
Dwight doesn't even have a go to move, his post game is laughable with a physique like that.

Howard is only good for lobs and blocks, his rotations are late and Gasol is heads and shoulders above him defensively too.

Seems like you've forgotten Carmelo and his amazing offensive abilities. When healthy, he's great and can do it all. Attack, post up, threes etc

xxplayerxx23
05-23-2015, 10:09 PM
I'm going to have to disagree here.

Gasol is heads and shoulders above Howard offensively, not to mention his great basketball IQ, passing ability, and also jump shooting.
Dwight doesn't even have a go to move, his post game is laughable with a physique like that.

Howard is only good for lobs and blocks, his rotations are late and Gasol is heads and shoulders above him defensively too.

Seems like you've forgotten Carmelo and his amazing offensive abilities. When healthy, he's great and can do it all. Attack, post up, threes etc

I did say gasol is better offensively l, harden is slightly better then Melo Offensively

ohreally
05-24-2015, 12:06 AM
How is this thread still open?

KnicksorBust
05-25-2015, 11:26 AM
only a matter of time before someone bought up the TS%...lol


What's funny about that?


Last year Melo shot better from everywhere on the field

Do you think that post 30 age Melo coming off a season ending injury will be as good as the Melo from 2013-2014?


but Harden had a better TS% simply because of FT's... FT's are important but if you really realize that the only reason he had a higher ts% was because of FT's it puts things in perspective... FT attempts do require a possession, which people always overlook.

Why are you devaluing FTs? Yes they require a possession and James Harden provides about 1.85ppp when he gets to the free throw line. Do you know the average ppp of a typical possession?


Listen efficiency matters but don't put blinders on either... if Melo played with Howard or Gasol he would be more efficient, thats just the way the game works, having help takes pressure off you. So don't get carried away with TS%... I use it and it has value, but consider context.

I don't necessarily know that is true. Kobe was actual most efficient in his seasons after Shaq. Magic Johnson was just as efficient with or without Kareem. Melo likes to play in the post. How would playing with Howard make him more efficient?


Obviously harden is going to get most assists if he plays PG alot, just like Melo gets more rebounds because he plays forward, I dont think that makes either one "better"...

James Harden average 5.7rpg this season and 7apg. Melo typically averages about 7rpg and 3apg. Are you really valuing that 1-2 rpg as highly as an extra 4apg? Especially when I already showed you that those assists are producing a league leading amount of made 3-pointers.


And obviously long term you take Harden because he's younger, but RIGHT NOW, there isn't much of a difference between the two.

Age is a huge factor. Harden is in his prime/peak. Melo is, if we're being generous, at the end of his prime. At their absolute best, I still take Harden because he is a playmaker. Considering that we aren't even seeing the best of Melo anymore? It's easily Harden.


Harden is in a good situation right now, Melo hasn't been... thats what it boils down to. Just like Shump, JR, Prigs are in good situations now too.

This post proves exactly why Melo never belonged in that stratosphere of elite superstars. LeBron has that same cast and he's on his way to the Finals.

5+7=DYNASTY!!!
05-25-2015, 11:36 AM
If the Knicks do sign Gasol I'm pretty sure they do not then have another $8-10M to sign another role player like a lot of people are saying. However, Gasol, Melo, and Mudiay/Russell would be a very nice start IMO.Especially in the East. No one could match that size.

LOOTERX9
05-25-2015, 04:26 PM
Harden over melo easily. No debate.