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View Full Version : All-Time Redraft Quarterfinals: (4) Markham vs (5) Seaside



Shammyguy3
05-12-2015, 07:04 PM
Each year PSD users on the forum partake in a fantasy snake-draft consisting of all-time players. Players are designated for certain eras based on their peak, and we've used a general 5 year prime to try and rank players overall value (so try and vote based on that 5-year peak as best you can). After the draft, opposing conferences voted for playoff ranking. So, given the two rosters below, if they were to face in real life (with every player in their 5-year prime), which team would win in the 7-game series?

4. Markham (Home-Court Advantage)
C: Bill Laimbeer - Tyson Chandler
PF: Kevin Garnett - Zach Randolph
SF: Alex English - Jamaal Wilkes
SG: Sidney Moncrief - Drazen Petrovic
PG: Isiah Thomas - Jamal Crawford

5. Seaside
PG: Jason Kidd - Steve Kerr
SG: Joe Dumars - Steve Smith
SF: Elgin Baylor - Sean Elliott
PF: Bob McAdoo - A.C. Green
C: Bill Walton - Andrew Bynum

Below are write-ups sent in by the GMs of the teams giving their reasons for why their team should win this matchup:

Markham

1. While we don't have anyone in the starting lineup who can shoot 3's, we have a 6th man in Drazen Petrovic playing over +30 mins per game, who is a career 43.7% 3 point shooter. Outside of Drazen Petrovic, we have floor spacers in Kevin Garnett and Bill Laimbeer, both of whom are strong shooters from midrange, with Kevin Garnett shooting nearly 44% from 16 ft to <3-pt, while Laimbeer shot 34% from 3 during his designated decade. Moncrief, English and Thomas were also able to hit the mid range. So while we don't have a 3 point shooter in our lineup, our rotation will be established so that there will be enough floor spacing on the team to hve a mix of mid range/3 point shots and inside scoring.

We'd like to point out that for Jason Kidd, while a career 34.9% 3 point shooter, shot a lower % from 3 from 1996-2005 (his designated decade) and shot under 34.9% for all but 2 years from those year and made Joe Dumars, from 1986-1995 (his designated decade for this game), was only a consistent 3 point shooter for 3 seasons in his decade, and actually shot under his career 3FG% of 38.2% for 2 of those seasons.

2. While they have strong defensive players, we believe there are holes we can exploit to improve our offensive potential. Our offense relies heavily on ball movement and well as pick and roll/pop to find open players.

To get past the permiter defense of Dumars and Kidd, we will be using a combination of English/Thomas/Moncrief as the primary ball handler with Garnett/Laimbeer going to the basket or taking a jump shot. Screens from Garnett/Laimbeer will give strong slashers in English and Thomas enough space to find an opening to the basket, while strong shooters in Garnett/Laimbeer will not be bothered by Dumars/Kidd when shooting the mid-range.

While Walton is a strong interior defender, he will have to be guarding Garnett or Laimbeer, both of whom are strong mid range shooters. If Walton is guarding Laimbeer, setting Laimbeer on the other side of the court will open up the paint for penetrations (through P&R with Garnett and Thomas/Moncrief/English).

Since we'll be running a P&R offense, their defense will surely rely on a lot of rotations and if their defense decides to provide help defense and rotate defensively, our starting lineup has strong passers (all but Laimbeer have averaged 5 or more APG) to rotate the ball to the open man.

Rebounding wise, we match up with Seaside strongly outside of PG. Garnett and Laimbeer have both led the league in rebounding (winning over rebounders such as Olajuwon, Duncan, Shaquille, Wallace, Rodman, Howard, Mutombo, Malone, Barkley, Oakley, Malone, KAJ, etc) while being bigger and stronger than Walton and McAdoo. While Baylor was a strong rebounder in his ERA, his RPG are most likely heavily inflated playing in the 50's and 60's while English was a respectable defender at SF averaging a respectable 6-8 RPG in his prime.

3. The matchups will allow us to place strong defenders on their main offensive scorers, allowing us to maintain a man to man offense for most of the game, limiting their opportunity to find open shots from ball movement.

Kevin Garnett is one of the best defensive big men of all time, and holds a size advantage against McAdoo to limit him in the paint. Garnett is a mobile defender as well, and can close out on McAdoo if he decides to play from midrange.

Sidney Moncrief is a x2 DPOY and a top 5 perimeter defender of all time. Moncrief, while smaller, does not surrender a large size advantage to Baylor and because of this, Moncrief will be able to hold his own limit him from getting inside. Should he get inside, we have strong post defenders in Laimbeer, Garnett and Tyson Chandler to help with any shots at the rim.

4. Seaside is disregarding our ability to match up to their lineup versaility. Should Seaside decide to play small, we can bring in Jamaal Wilkes, who is a strong versatile defender (x2 All NBA defense with experience guarding great scorers such as Spencer Haywood, Elvin Hayes, Bob Love in the finals) to help limit Baylor at the PF positon while matching Garnett at C with McAdoo. Our strong man to man defenders will also limit the amount of times we provide help defense, which will reduce the number of open shots from 3. Should they try to score more from inside and we have Garnett/Laimbeer/Chandler (x15 All-NBA defense and x2 DPOY) anchoring the paint.


Seaside Write-Up


Keys to Seaside's victory:

1. 3PT disparity. No one in Markham's starting lineup can shoot the 3. Moncrief and IT averaged a combined 28% on 2 attempts per game in their careers. They only have 2 players capable of hitting the 3 on their entire roster and one of them is streaky at best (Jamal Crawford). This allows my team to spread out and play the inside of the 3PT arc. On the opposite end, Dumars was a good 3PT shooter (38.2% career on 2.5 shots per game, and Jason Kidd was an adequate enough 3PT shooter (34.9% career) to space the floor. Additionally, McAdoo and Baylor were both very good midrange shooters.

2. Defensive strategy. My defense is great at two things, perimeter defense and interior rim protection with Walton. That is the primary offense for Markham. IT and Moncrief will have a difficult time driving on Kidd and Dumars and they'll have to get past Walton once they get there. Laimbeer is not a great enough offensive option that Walton won't be able to focus on stopping penetration. Another area where I feel we can really impact the game is on the boards. Walton, McAdoo, Baylor and Kidd were all excellent on the boards, and despite our smaller backcourt, we actually hold the size advantage in this matchup.

3. Offensive identity. His team has excellent defenders however my team is filled with excellent passers. Every starter except McAdoo averaged 5.0+ APG at one point in their careers (and McAdoo averaged 4.0). Our offense can be initiated from Kidd or Dumars up top or Walton down low. This gives my offense the versatility to stress his defenders and prevent them from simply guarding 1 on 1. We have 2 of the best scorers of all-time in McAdoo and Baylor, and I don't foresee his team being able to shut down both every night.

4. Lineup versatility. Not only does ours have it, but it negates what might have been a big strength for him. We both have similar backcourts (slightly undersized SGs who are capable of sliding in and playing PG) and a similar explosive scoring wing, except ours was better (Baylor/English). Walton/McAdoo are perfect compliments to each other, and our lineup also gives us the flexibility to play McAdoo at C, Baylor at PF, and Elliott/Steve Smith at SF to create a smaller more uptempo lineup.


Elgin Baylor is considered one of, if not the, best player to never win a ring, I plan to bring him his first championship. 3 of my starters made multiple All-Defensive teams, 2 won Finals MVP, 2 won MVP, 4 were Champions. The team is loaded with players who were considered superstars who raised their game in the biggest moments. We've got the perfect mix of players to both negate his team's biggest strengths and capitalize on their biggest weaknesses. That is why Seaside should win this matchup.

KnicksorBust
05-12-2015, 07:08 PM
I remember Markham being a big fave of many people but Seaside came out with a hell of a writeup. Curious to hear a rebuttal.

Raps18-19 Champ
05-12-2015, 07:13 PM
I'll make some time to see what I can come up with a little later on.

KnicksorBust
05-12-2015, 07:15 PM
I'll make some time to see what I can come up with a little later on.

You are markham?

Shammyguy3
05-12-2015, 07:22 PM
Yeah valade crushed that lineup, a little light on statistics that i'd love to see but it hit everything it should have.

KnicksorBust
05-12-2015, 07:24 PM
Yeah valade crushed that lineup, a little light on statistics that i'd love to see but it hit everything it should have.

The amazing thing is that if I listed my top 25 most underrated players in nba history, his entire starting 5 would be on it.

Shammyguy3
05-12-2015, 07:26 PM
The amazing thing is that if I listed my top 25 most underrated players in nba history, his entire starting 5 would be on it.

I've never actually thought of compiling a list of the most underrateds ever, looking at his team though he does have a couple that pop out at me with McAdoo/Walton

Raps18-19 Champ
05-12-2015, 08:18 PM
You are markham?

Yea, with Matter.

I'll get home in like 40 mins then I'll see if I can write something up.

Redrum187
05-12-2015, 09:01 PM
This is a hell of a write up; Very succinct. :P

Raps18-19 Champ
05-12-2015, 09:52 PM
1. While we don't have anyone in the starting lineup who can shoot 3's, we have a 6th man in Drazen Petrovic playing over +30 mins per game, who is a career 43.7% 3 point shooter. Outside of Drazen Petrovic, we have floor spacers in Kevin Garnett and Bill Laimbeer, both of whom are strong shooters from midrange, with Kevin Garnett shooting nearly 44% from 16 ft to <3-pt, while Laimbeer shot 34% from 3 during his designated decade. Moncrief, English and Thomas were also able to hit the mid range. So while we don't have a 3 point shooter in our lineup, our rotation will be established so that there will be enough floor spacing on the team to hve a mix of mid range/3 point shots and inside scoring.

We'd like to point out that for Jason Kidd, while a career 34.9% 3 point shooter, shot a lower % from 3 from 1996-2005 (his designated decade) and shot under 34.9% for all but 2 years from those year and made Joe Dumars, from 1986-1995 (his designated decade for this game), was only a consistent 3 point shooter for 3 seasons in his decade, and actually shot under his career 3FG% of 38.2% for 2 of those seasons.

2. While they have strong defensive players, we believe there are holes we can exploit to improve our offensive potential. Our offense relies heavily on ball movement and well as pick and roll/pop to find open players.

To get past the permiter defense of Dumars and Kidd, we will be using a combination of English/Thomas/Moncrief as the primary ball handler with Garnett/Laimbeer going to the basket or taking a jump shot. Screens from Garnett/Laimbeer will give strong slashers in English and Thomas enough space to find an opening to the basket, while strong shooters in Garnett/Laimbeer will not be bothered by Dumars/Kidd when shooting the mid-range.

While Walton is a strong interior defender, he will have to be guarding Garnett or Laimbeer, both of whom are strong mid range shooters. If Walton is guarding Laimbeer, setting Laimbeer on the other side of the court will open up the paint for penetrations (through P&R with Garnett and Thomas/Moncrief/English).

Since we'll be running a P&R offense, their defense will surely rely on a lot of rotations and if their defense decides to provide help defense and rotate defensively, our starting lineup has strong passers (all but Laimbeer have averaged 5 or more APG) to rotate the ball to the open man.

Rebounding wise, we match up with Seaside strongly outside of PG. Garnett and Laimbeer have both led the league in rebounding (winning over rebounders such as Olajuwon, Duncan, Shaquille, Wallace, Rodman, Howard, Mutombo, Malone, Barkley, Oakley, Malone, KAJ, etc) while being bigger and stronger than Walton and McAdoo. While Baylor was a strong rebounder in his ERA, his RPG are most likely heavily inflated playing in the 50's and 60's while English was a respectable defender at SF averaging a respectable 6-8 RPG in his prime.

3. The matchups will allow us to place strong defenders on their main offensive scorers, allowing us to maintain a man to man offense for most of the game, limiting their opportunity to find open shots from ball movement.

Kevin Garnett is one of the best defensive big men of all time, and holds a size advantage against McAdoo to limit him in the paint. Garnett is a mobile defender as well, and can close out on McAdoo if he decides to play from midrange.

Sidney Moncrief is a x2 DPOY and a top 5 perimeter defender of all time. Moncrief, while smaller, does not surrender a large size advantage to Baylor and because of this, Moncrief will be able to hold his own limit him from getting inside. Should he get inside, we have strong post defenders in Laimbeer, Garnett and Tyson Chandler to help with any shots at the rim.

4. Seaside is disregarding our ability to match up to their lineup versaility. Should Seaside decide to play small, we can bring in Jamaal Wilkes, who is a strong versatile defender (x2 All NBA defense with experience guarding great scorers such as Spencer Haywood, Elvin Hayes, Bob Love in the finals) to help limit Baylor at the PF positon while matching Garnett at C with McAdoo. Our strong man to man defenders will also limit the amount of times we provide help defense, which will reduce the number of open shots from 3. Should they try to score more from inside and we have Garnett/Laimbeer/Chandler (x15 All-NBA defense and x2 DPOY) anchoring the paint.

Redrum187
05-12-2015, 10:49 PM
Really good response from Raps, I like it.

valade16
05-13-2015, 09:24 AM
1. While we don't have anyone in the starting lineup who can shoot 3's, we have a 6th man in Drazen Petrovic playing over +30 mins per game, who is a career 43.7% 3 point shooter. Outside of Drazen Petrovic, we have floor spacers in Kevin Garnett and Bill Laimbeer, both of whom are strong shooters from midrange, with Kevin Garnett shooting nearly 44% from 16 ft to <3-pt, while Laimbeer shot 34% from 3 during his designated decade. Moncrief, English and Thomas were also able to hit the mid range. So while we don't have a 3 point shooter in our lineup, our rotation will be established so that there will be enough floor spacing on the team to hve a mix of mid range/3 point shots and inside scoring.

We'd like to point out that for Jason Kidd, while a career 34.9% 3 point shooter, shot a lower % from 3 from 1996-2005 (his designated decade) and shot under 34.9% for all but 2 years from those year and made Joe Dumars, from 1986-1995 (his designated decade for this game), was only a consistent 3 point shooter for 3 seasons in his decade, and actually shot under his career 3FG% of 38.2% for 2 of those seasons.

2. While they have strong defensive players, we believe there are holes we can exploit to improve our offensive potential. Our offense relies heavily on ball movement and well as pick and roll/pop to find open players.

To get past the permiter defense of Dumars and Kidd, we will be using a combination of English/Thomas/Moncrief as the primary ball handler with Garnett/Laimbeer going to the basket or taking a jump shot. Screens from Garnett/Laimbeer will give strong slashers in English and Thomas enough space to find an opening to the basket, while strong shooters in Garnett/Laimbeer will not be bothered by Dumars/Kidd when shooting the mid-range.

While Walton is a strong interior defender, he will have to be guarding Garnett or Laimbeer, both of whom are strong mid range shooters. If Walton is guarding Laimbeer, setting Laimbeer on the other side of the court will open up the paint for penetrations (through P&R with Garnett and Thomas/Moncrief/English).

Since we'll be running a P&R offense, their defense will surely rely on a lot of rotations and if their defense decides to provide help defense and rotate defensively, our starting lineup has strong passers (all but Laimbeer have averaged 5 or more APG) to rotate the ball to the open man.

Rebounding wise, we match up with Seaside strongly outside of PG. Garnett and Laimbeer have both led the league in rebounding (winning over rebounders such as Olajuwon, Duncan, Shaquille, Wallace, Rodman, Howard, Mutombo, Malone, Barkley, Oakley, Malone, KAJ, etc) while being bigger and stronger than Walton and McAdoo. While Baylor was a strong rebounder in his ERA, his RPG are most likely heavily inflated playing in the 50's and 60's while English was a respectable defender at SF averaging a respectable 6-8 RPG in his prime.

3. The matchups will allow us to place strong defenders on their main offensive scorers, allowing us to maintain a man to man offense for most of the game, limiting their opportunity to find open shots from ball movement.

Kevin Garnett is one of the best defensive big men of all time, and holds a size advantage against McAdoo to limit him in the paint. Garnett is a mobile defender as well, and can close out on McAdoo if he decides to play from midrange.

Sidney Moncrief is a x2 DPOY and a top 5 perimeter defender of all time. Moncrief, while smaller, does not surrender a large size advantage to Baylor and because of this, Moncrief will be able to hold his own limit him from getting inside. Should he get inside, we have strong post defenders in Laimbeer, Garnett and Tyson Chandler to help with any shots at the rim.

4. Seaside is disregarding our ability to match up to their lineup versaility. Should Seaside decide to play small, we can bring in Jamaal Wilkes, who is a strong versatile defender (x2 All NBA defense with experience guarding great scorers such as Spencer Haywood, Elvin Hayes, Bob Love in the finals) to help limit Baylor at the PF positon while matching Garnett at C with McAdoo. Our strong man to man defenders will also limit the amount of times we provide help defense, which will reduce the number of open shots from 3. Should they try to score more from inside and we have Garnett/Laimbeer/Chandler (x15 All-NBA defense and x2 DPOY) anchoring the paint.

1st: True, Drazen was a great 3PT shooter, but he's still your only one. That doesn't create a lot of spacing, and Kidd or Dumars can easily lock Drazen down to limit his shots. But here's the other thing, if Drazen is going to be on the court so much, who are you taking out? Do you lose your best perimeter defender in Moncrief or do you lose a sizeable chunk of your scoring ability in English? It seems to me Drazen will have to be playing more with the 2nd unit than with the starting squad and if you do play him with your starters it's going to drastically decrease either your defensive capability or your scoring capacity.

There's a reason people say the midrange shot is the worst shot in basketball. Here's where my 3PT domination really starts to manifest itself. KG is a 44% midrange shooter. That means for 100 midrange shots he is scoring 88 points. Jason Kidd, even at his 33% 3PT shooting for his decade is still scoring 99 points for his 100 shot attempts. So if you trade KG/Laimbeer jumpshots with Jason Kidd/Dumars 3's, you're going to get handedly outscored.

2nd: You can run pick and rolls for shooters all day long, We are going to have Kidd and Dumars go over the screens not under so that the big man stays on his man. If IT and Moncrief decide to drive from the space created by those screens we are going to keep Walton nearer the hoop, Laimbeer's midrange game is not going to win a series. Also keep in mind, since you have virtually no 3PT shooting in your starting lineup, our guys don't have as far to close out on your shooters, this allows us to simply clog the court inside the 3PT line making it tough for your passers to find open lanes.

Also, I'd like to point out Walton was a better rebounder than anyone on your team. KG's career is 26.0% DRB and 30.8% peak, Laimbeer's is 24.6% and 28.9%. Walton's was 30.2% career and 34.2% peak.

3rd: While he has strong post defenders, I don't think he has much true rim protection. As I pointed out, McAdoo was an excellent shooter and he will be playing mostly from Midrange in order to draw KG away from the basket, this leaves his rim protection to Laimbeer, who while physical, wasn't a true rim protector. Laimbeer averaged 0.9 BPG in his career. He's not going to be much of deterrence for our ability to put pressure on the paint.

He does have Tyson Chandler but again, if he plays with the starters, who comes out? Laimbeer? He loses the ability to attempt to draw Walton away from the basket on the other end.


To summarize, remember his team has no 3PT shooting and is, as he himself puts it, going to be relying on the midrange game. This means he won't have a lot of explosive ability to make up deficits. If his team gets down by 8 points, he is going to have to earn all 8 of those points the hard way. Essentially for him it is a 4 possession deficit no matter what.

Imagine a close game down by 3, we know who the ball is going to, he's just not going to be able to shake the one dimensional nature of his offense, especially when my team is perfectly arranged defensively to limit him.

valade16
05-13-2015, 09:29 AM
The amazing thing is that if I listed my top 25 most underrated players in nba history, his entire starting 5 would be on it.
That seems to be more of a blessing than a curse lol.

I pointed this out to Shammy earlier, Markham did a remarkable job drafting their team, so much so they did not once trade. But that makes them bound by the talent level of the draft order. By trading heavily, I was able (IMO) to just increase the overall talent level of my starting lineup.

You could make a case the 2 least talented players in both our starting lineups in a historical context are Laimbeer and English. I have 2 former MVPs on my team (he has 1). I have a guy who made 10 All-NBA 1st teams after that. How many of his guys are considered Top 10 players at their positions? 2 (KG/IT)? I have 4 guys who are Top 10 at their positions.

And yes it isn't just about talent, but in order to defeat such overwhelming talent you need to have an overwhelming fit advantage, something he doesn't have. While his team is a great fit, so is mine.

KnicksorBust
05-13-2015, 10:57 AM
Nice reply by Raps but the more I think about it the more I see that Seaside's write-up is correct. If you are going to try and get away with having a team that isn't elite at 3pt shooting than you need to at least be able to pound the ball down low. They don't have elite low post scorers or good floor spacing. That means a ton of mid-range shots (low percentage plays) and driving to the rim.

Markham's best penetrator is Zeke but he will be guarded by J-Kidd who was a lockdown PG defender in his prime. I actually wish Dumars was on English but that's a small point. With Walton protecting the rim I see Markham having some tough scoring games.

I like Seaside in 7 for the upset.

Raps18-19 Champ
05-13-2015, 03:13 PM
1st: True, Drazen was a great 3PT shooter, but he's still your only one. That doesn't create a lot of spacing, and Kidd or Dumars can easily lock Drazen down to limit his shots. But here's the other thing, if Drazen is going to be on the court so much, who are you taking out? Do you lose your best perimeter defender in Moncrief or do you lose a sizeable chunk of your scoring ability in English? It seems to me Drazen will have to be playing more with the 2nd unit than with the starting squad and if you do play him with your starters it's going to drastically decrease either your defensive capability or your scoring capacity.

There's a reason people say the midrange shot is the worst shot in basketball. Here's where my 3PT domination really starts to manifest itself. KG is a 44% midrange shooter. That means for 100 midrange shots he is scoring 88 points. Jason Kidd, even at his 33% 3PT shooting for his decade is still scoring 99 points for his 100 shot attempts. So if you trade KG/Laimbeer jumpshots with Jason Kidd/Dumars 3's, you're going to get handedly outscored.

2nd: You can run pick and rolls for shooters all day long, We are going to have Kidd and Dumars go over the screens not under so that the big man stays on his man. If IT and Moncrief decide to drive from the space created by those screens we are going to keep Walton nearer the hoop, Laimbeer's midrange game is not going to win a series. Also keep in mind, since you have virtually no 3PT shooting in your starting lineup, our guys don't have as far to close out on your shooters, this allows us to simply clog the court inside the 3PT line making it tough for your passers to find open lanes.

Also, I'd like to point out Walton was a better rebounder than anyone on your team. KG's career is 26.0% DRB and 30.8% peak, Laimbeer's is 24.6% and 28.9%. Walton's was 30.2% career and 34.2% peak.

3rd: While he has strong post defenders, I don't think he has much true rim protection. As I pointed out, McAdoo was an excellent shooter and he will be playing mostly from Midrange in order to draw KG away from the basket, this leaves his rim protection to Laimbeer, who while physical, wasn't a true rim protector. Laimbeer averaged 0.9 BPG in his career. He's not going to be much of deterrence for our ability to put pressure on the paint.

He does have Tyson Chandler but again, if he plays with the starters, who comes out? Laimbeer? He loses the ability to attempt to draw Walton away from the basket on the other end.


To summarize, remember his team has no 3PT shooting and is, as he himself puts it, going to be relying on the midrange game. This means he won't have a lot of explosive ability to make up deficits. If his team gets down by 8 points, he is going to have to earn all 8 of those points the hard way. Essentially for him it is a 4 possession deficit no matter what.

Imagine a close game down by 3, we know who the ball is going to, he's just not going to be able to shake the one dimensional nature of his offense, especially when my team is perfectly arranged defensively to limit him.

While Drazen is only 1 shooter, he's proven he can actually create his own shot. We plan to take out Drazen in replace of both English (so at SF) or Moncrief (or at SG) depending on the matchup. We won't lose as much defensive abilities with English off the floor (it's not like Dumars or Kidd will take over the game if we put Drazen on them) while we'll place him over Moncrief at SG if we need scoring.

Neither Kidd or Dumars can create their own shot, so how do you expect them to make 3s at the same consistency if we're not going to leave them open? Jason Kidd for his regualr season career needs to be assisted on 87% of 3FGM. It gets even worse in the playoffs where, in his best 3 point shooting playoff year in 2005 at 36.7%, actually needs to be assisted 100% of the time just to make 3 point shots. In the years before that when the stat was being tracked, he shot:

2001- 23.5% from 3 (assisted on 1.000) (.246 of his shots were 3 point attempts) (4 games)
2002- 18.9% from 3 (assisted on .824) (.254 of his shots were 3 point attempts) (20 games)
2003- 32.7% from 3 (assisted on .735) (.305 of his shots were 3 point attempts) (20 games)
2004- 20.8% from 3 (assisted on .700) (.372 of his shots were 3 point attempts) (11 games)

So outside of 2005, (where he played in 4 games), his 3 point shooting has not been impressive at all in the playoffs. In the one season where you can even argue that he shot respectable % while not being assisted on as much (in 2003), a prime Kidd was only making 8.2 APG. So Kidd essentially traded off his passing potential so he can marginally make some 3 point shots (at an underwhelming % too) and if he decides to that he wants to drop his APG in this series and take the ball out of Baylor or McAdoo's hands, that's fine by us.

Leaving a man on them will discourage them from shooting 3s and if they do decide to shoot, both are streaky shooters anyway with a man guarding them. So your team will be making less 3 point shots because they won't be wide open and they'll shoot at a lower % than when KG shoots from mid-range. So really, if the matchup is Kidd from 3 unassisted or KG shooting midrange, I'll take KG.

If you want the bigs to stay on the bigs instead of rotating during P&R, that's fine with us. McAdoo staying with Garnett plays to our strenghts. Your weakest defender is outmatched physically and skillwise (KG's offense is a lot better than McAdoo's defense, which has been questioned throughout his career).

If you decide to leave Laimbeer open to clog the paint, he'll make open 3s at a better rate than Kidd will make with a defender on him. If you really want to clog the paint with Walton, we'll just leave Laimbeer on the other side near the basket. If you want, we'll set up the P&R from the right side and if you decide you want Walton to close out on Thomas or Garnett (if IT gives him the ball) before they gets to the rim, Laimbeer will be available on the left side of the rim for an uncontested closer range shot and both IT/KG are good enough passers to make that extra pass. We'll also use Laimbeer to set the screens instead if we decide we want Walton out of the paint and once Thomas gets past him, he can find KG near the basket, who will be guarded by an outmatched McAdoo by himself without any help defense since Walton is already committed to the P&R.

Bill Walton holding slighty higher RB% isn't going to decide the series. Walton, KG and Laimbeer are all great rebounbders who will most likely cancel themselves out, with KG rebounding between 12-18.7 RPG in his prime during the playoffs and Laimbeer having to shere the floor with Rodman, which will limit his rebounding.

If they decide they want to take away their strongest scorer in McAdoo in order to give the ball to Walton, we'll take that risk. Forcing Walton to be a scorer takes away from his biggest strenght, which is passing from the inside. If he gets the ball inside, we'll ensure the other players are denied the ball by playing them tighter. We are not concerned with Laimbeer guarding Walton, as Walton FG% and PPG were not tantilizing in the regular season or his playoff appearances. Laimbeer has shown he can defend HOF post players such as KAJ (shot 41% and 13PPG in 1988 when he averaged 15PPG on 56% just the series before), Parish (13PPG at 42% against Laimbeer when he averaged 58% and 16PPG against the other teams in the playoffs), Malone (shot 46% and 18.6 PPG against Laimbeer in 1988 plyoffs), etc. And we can always bring in the more athletic Chandler to defend him. When Chandler is in the game offensively, we'll just utilize Chandler setting the screens more often to draw out Walton away from the basket and Chandler has efficiently shot 59% of higher from the field (also a strong P&R player), so we are not overly concerned about his ability to produce offensively when he comes off the bench.


He still has yet to address what he will do offensively to score on our team. He stated he relies heavily on ball movement to make opportunities, but by playing man to man defense, the amount of opportunities from ball movement is limited. Kidd and Dumars can't create their own shot and won't be able to score as much 3s. His strongest post scorer is being guarded by our best post defender and the same goes for his perimeter scoring and our perimeter defender. None of your scorers are going to overpower our defenders on a 1 to 1 matchup either. If he decides he wants to utilize Walton as their main scorer (not exactly his biggest and waste his biggest asset while being defended by strong and experienced post players in Chandler/Laimbeer, we can take that risk. We'll also have Moncrief (x2 DPOY) on Baylor if he decides he wants to essentially play ISO ball with Baylor on the floor to create opportunities. Baylor has a career FG of 43%, a TS% of 49% and averaged 1.15 points for every shot taken for his career (which is less points per shots than labelled inefficient and blackhole perimeter scorers such as Iverson, Kobe, etc) so depending on what lineups are on the floor, we have trust that Moncrief can hold his on against him. So if you want to turn this into a replay of Lebron vs the Spurs in 2014 Finals by having 1 perimeter guy beat us in Baylor but no one else is going to be as strong of a factor (which you'll be doing since you'll be wasting your team's passing ability), we'll take the risk. Should he take out McAdoo or Walton, we can close in on Baylor.

Raps18-19 Champ
05-13-2015, 03:18 PM
Nice reply by Raps but the more I think about it the more I see that Seaside's write-up is correct. If you are going to try and get away with having a team that isn't elite at 3pt shooting than you need to at least be able to pound the ball down low. They don't have elite low post scorers or good floor spacing. That means a ton of mid-range shots (low percentage plays) and driving to the rim.

Markham's best penetrator is Zeke but he will be guarded by J-Kidd who was a lockdown PG defender in his prime. I actually wish Dumars was on English but that's a small point. With Walton protecting the rim I see Markham having some tough scoring games.

I like Seaside in 7 for the upset.

We do plan to do that as well. He's using McAdoo to guard Garnett. We're going to establish Garnett very low and he'll overpower McAdoo more times than not, who was not known to be a strong defender. If Walton closes in, Garnett will be able to pass to Laimbeer who can make shots from the 0-10 feet range on top of 15-under 22 feet. If his guards close in, that leaves Isiah/Thomas/Moncrief open for mid-range or drives). If he decides to really clog the paint, then we'll just leave Petrovic in the game in replace of English, who is still a dynamic scorer in his own right and will limit the amount of double teams they can place on KG down low.

valade16
05-13-2015, 04:01 PM
While Drazen is only 1 shooter, he's proven he can actually create his own shot. We plan to take out Drazen in replace of both English (so at SF) or Moncrief (or at SG) depending on the matchup. We won't lose as much defensive abilities with English off the floor (it's not like Dumars or Kidd will take over the game if we put Drazen on them) while we'll place him over Moncrief at SG if we need scoring.

Neither Kidd or Dumars can create their own shot, so how do you expect them to make 3s at the same consistency if we're not going to leave them open?



If you decide to leave Laimbeer open to clog the paint, he'll make open 3s at a better rate than Kidd will make with a defender on him. If you really want to clog the paint with Walton, we'll just leave Laimbeer on the other side near the basket. If you want, we'll set up the P&R from the right side and if you decide you want Walton to close out on Thomas or Garnett (if IT gives him the ball) before they gets to the rim, Laimbeer will be available on the left side of the rim for an uncontested closer range shot and both IT/KG are good enough passers to make that extra pass. We'll also use Laimbeer to set the screens instead if we decide we want Walton out of the paint and once Thomas gets past him, he can find KG near the basket, who will be guarded by an outmatched McAdoo by himself without any help defense since Walton is already committed to the P&R.


If they decide they want to take away their strongest scorer in McAdoo in order to give the ball to Walton, we'll take that risk. Forcing Walton to be a scorer takes away from his biggest strength, which is passing from the inside. If he gets the ball inside, we'll ensure the other players are denied the ball by playing them tighter. We are not concerned with Laimbeer guarding Walton, as Walton FG% and PPG were not tantilizing in the regular season or his playoff appearances. Laimbeer has shown he can defend HOF post players such as KAJ (shot 41% and 13PPG in 1988 when he averaged 15PPG on 56% just the series before), Parish (13PPG at 42% against Laimbeer when he averaged 58% and 16PPG against the other teams in the playoffs), Malone (shot 46% and 18.6 PPG against Laimbeer in 1988 plyoffs), etc.

He still has yet to address what he will do offensively to score on our team.

I just want to rebut his high points here:

First Bolded: I have to strongly disagree. Kidd routinely took over games and propelled the Nets to the finals and Joe Dumars won the Finals MVP in 88 by averaging 27 PPG and scoring 30+ numerous times against Michael Cooper. If he can score on Michael Cooper, he sure as heck can score on English (who will be guarding him since he said Moncrief will be on Baylor).

While he may think Kidd and Dumars can't create their own shot in this, they are both excellent at getting other people their shots, I just don't see his team being able to complete stop my ball movement.

Second Bolded: Laimbeer would be able to shoot open 3's at a higher rate than Dumars or Kidd? I'm not too sure of that. I'd also like to point out that if he wants to switch with Laimbeer playing way out and Garnett playing inside we'll just switch Walton on KG and have McAdoo guard his big man at the 3pt line.

But let's address this idea that Laimbeer's offensive versatility would somehow break down our defense. Laimbeer was not a very high volume scorer (especially for this game). Having checked his career game log, he scored 30+ points a game 12 times in his entire career. That's over 1,000 games and only 12 over 30 points. He isn't going to beat us with his scoring prowess.

Also, he mentioned some impressive numbers for Laimbeer against KAJ and Parish, but those are slightly misleading. 1st the series he's talking about against KAJ he was 39 years old. A 39 year old Kareem is a far cry from in his prime Walton. Also, he neglected to mention Laimbeer's stats in that series:

Vs. KAJ: 9.4 PPG, 8.9 RPG 39% FG

So it's fair to say Kareem actually outplayed Laimbeer in that series from a statistical standpoint, and that was as a 39 year old…

Also, if you look at Parish's head to head vs Laimbeer:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=laimbbi01&p2=parisro01

You see he more often than not outplayed him. And Walton was better than Parish in his prime.


I get what he is saying, I just don't think it would be that easy to lock my team down while simultaneously having this amazing offense. Remember, my wing defenders are every bit as good as his (heck, MJ said Dumars was the toughest player who ever guarded him), so if his guys could lock **** down, why couldn't mine? Heck, the biggest difference is I have an all-time elite defensive rim protector covering for them, he does not.

Raps18-19 Champ
05-13-2015, 04:25 PM
I just want to rebut his high points here:

First Bolded: I have to strongly disagree. Kidd routinely took over games and propelled the Nets to the finals and Joe Dumars won the Finals MVP in 88 by averaging 27 PPG and scoring 30+ numerous times against Michael Cooper. If he can score on Michael Cooper, he sure as heck can score on English (who will be guarding him since he said Moncrief will be on Baylor).

While he may think Kidd and Dumars can't create their own shot in this, they are both excellent at getting other people their shots, I just don't see his team being able to complete stop my ball movement.

Second Bolded: Laimbeer would be able to shoot open 3's at a higher rate than Dumars or Kidd? I'm not too sure of that. I'd also like to point out that if he wants to switch with Laimbeer playing way out and Garnett playing inside we'll just switch Walton on KG and have McAdoo guard his big man at the 3pt line.

But let's address this idea that Laimbeer's offensive versatility would somehow break down our defense. Laimbeer was not a very high volume scorer (especially for this game). Having checked his career game log, he scored 30+ points a game 12 times in his entire career. That's over 1,000 games and only 12 over 30 points. He isn't going to beat us with his scoring prowess.

Also, he mentioned some impressive numbers for Laimbeer against KAJ and Parish, but those are slightly misleading. 1st the series he's talking about against KAJ he was 39 years old. A 39 year old Kareem is a far cry from in his prime Walton. Also, he neglected to mention Laimbeer's stats in that series:

Vs. KAJ: 9.4 PPG, 8.9 RPG 39% FG

So it's fair to say Kareem actually outplayed Laimbeer in that series from a statistical standpoint, and that was as a 39 year old…

Also, if you look at Parish's head to head vs Laimbeer:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=laimbbi01&p2=parisro01

You see he more often than not outplayed him. And Walton was better than Parish in his prime.


I get what he is saying, I just don't think it would be that easy to lock my team down while simultaneously having this amazing offense. Remember, my wing defenders are every bit as good as his (heck, MJ said Dumars was the toughest player who ever guarded him), so if his guys could lock **** down, why couldn't mine? Heck, the biggest difference is I have an all-time elite defensive rim protector covering for them, he does not.

Kidd isn't taking over any games offensively shooting the 38-40% he normally does and if you want to give him the ball to take away from Baylor and McAdoo, we'll take that risk. Dumars' 4 game series, while impressive, does not reflect his overall ability to be a continuous threat as a scorer, and even if he was the main scorer on this team, you're just taking away from Baylor and McAdoo. Kidd and Dumars' ball movement will be limited by playing man to man and ensuring they are guarded at all times to limit any assisted field goal attempts. How effective is swinging the ball around when there's no open man to pass it too?

If you play Walton on Garnett, then that's fine with us. We'll use Garnett for screens to take Walton out of the paint and giving Thomas/English/Moncrief open drives to the lane without a post defender. Camping Chandler/Laimbeer inside against a smaller McAdoo with his lack of defense will give us some efficient offensive possessions. While Laimbeer is not a great scorer, you're either leaving him open from 3/mid range or playing a smaller McAdoo on him based on the matchups you provided, and you're giving our team efficient looks at the basket and he'll be able to score more points at higher % on similar/slightly higher FGA. Laimbeer is a 30-38% from 3 in his best years and 35% in his 2 championship years in the playoffs, and we do believe that he can post similar/better %s from 3 than a streaky Kidd taking contested shots (to which we've already pointed out was bad in his prime when unassisted). We were pointing out Laimbeer's ability to guard post players in the postseason where in Laimbeers best years, Parish' PPG at lower % dropped than when he was against other centers or compared to his regular numbers throughout the season or other playoff series.

valade16
05-13-2015, 04:52 PM
Kidd isn't taking over any games offensively shooting the 38-40% he normally does and if you want to give him the ball to take away from Baylor and McAdoo, we'll take that risk. Dumars' 4 game series, while impressive, does not reflect his overall ability to be a continuous threat as a scorer, and even if he was the main scorer on this team, you're just taking away from Baylor and McAdoo. Kidd and Dumars' ball movement will be limited by playing man to man and ensuring they are guarded at all times to limit any assisted field goal attempts. How effective is swinging the ball around when there's no open man to pass it too?

If you play Walton on Garnett, then that's fine with us. We'll use Garnett for screens to take Walton out of the paint and giving Thomas/English/Moncrief open drives to the lane without a post defender. Camping Chandler/Laimbeer inside against a smaller McAdoo with his lack of defense will give us some efficient offensive possessions. While Laimbeer is not a great scorer, you're either leaving him open from 3/mid range or playing a smaller McAdoo on him based on the matchups you provided, and you're giving our team efficient looks at the basket and he'll be able to score more points at higher % on similar/slightly higher FGA. Laimbeer is a 30-38% from 3 in his best years and 35% in his 2 championship years in the playoffs, and we do believe that he can post similar/better %s from 3 than a streaky Kidd taking contested shots (to which we've already pointed out was bad in his prime when unassisted). We were pointing out Laimbeer's ability to guard post players in the postseason where in Laimbeers best years, Parish' PPG at lower % dropped than when he was against other centers or compared to his regular numbers throughout the season or other playoff series.
You're trying to portray a pick your poison or damned if you do damned if you don’t problem with my defense but your offense is too one dimensional for that.

I didn't mean Kidd would take over the game scoring wise, but he definitely takes over games by getting everyone else involved and being able to stress the defense, something he'd be able to do. Kidd with the ball in his hands isn't taking away from McAdoo or Baylor's scoring ability, it's actually enhancing it. The idea that there would be no open man to pass it to is laughable. Laimbeer isn't going to lock down Walton to that degree, nor is English going to lock down anyone to that degree. I also don't even think IT would be able to deny Kidd from getting the ball pretty much whenever he wants, he's bigger and stronger.

You're essentially saying your offense will be pick and roll to shoot midrange or drive to the hoop. As I said before, the very strength of my team is my perimeter defense and my interior rim protection, you might otherwise know those as "pick and roll killers". Those are textbook how to stop pick and roll offense lol.

Also, as I pointed out, Laimbeer could hinder 35 year old Parish and 39 year old Kareem, I just don't see him being able to do that against an in his prime Walton, a guy who has some of the best technical skills for any center ever.

Raps18-19 Champ
05-13-2015, 05:20 PM
You're trying to portray a pick your poison or damned if you do damned if you don’t problem with my defense but your offense is too one dimensional for that.

I didn't mean Kidd would take over the game scoring wise, but he definitely takes over games by getting everyone else involved and being able to stress the defense, something he'd be able to do. Kidd with the ball in his hands isn't taking away from McAdoo or Baylor's scoring ability, it's actually enhancing it. The idea that there would be no open man to pass it to is laughable. Laimbeer isn't going to lock down Walton to that degree, nor is English going to lock down anyone to that degree. I also don't even think IT would be able to deny Kidd from getting the ball pretty much whenever he wants, he's bigger and stronger.

You're essentially saying your offense will be pick and roll to shoot midrange or drive to the hoop. As I said before, the very strength of my team is my perimeter defense and my interior rim protection, you might otherwise know those as "pick and roll killers". Those are textbook how to stop pick and roll offense lol.

Also, as I pointed out, Laimbeer could hinder 35 year old Parish and 39 year old Kareem, I just don't see him being able to do that against an in his prime Walton, a guy who has some of the best technical skills for any center ever.

We're not saying your defense is damned. You keep saying Walton's interior rim protection will prevent us from scoring but you keep committing Walton to essentially leave his man open to stay in the paint. You want him to clog the paint (say we set up the P&R on the left side of the half court) but that leaves an open Laimbeer for quick and efficient offense on the right side of the rim. Or if you want him to close out on say a Garnett or Isiah 10 foot jump shot, you're giving Laimbeer and opportunity to get an offensive rebound. If we take Walton's man (say he's guarding Garnett and Garnett sets the pick) to set the pick and draw him out of the paint, where exactly is your rim protection in that case? Because McAdoo isn't going to stop anyone at the rim if we decide to maybe have an off ball screen on the other side of the rim with English cutting to the rim. Or are you really that willing to leave Laimbeer or Garnett for an open 10-15 footer when they commit to setting the screen just so Walton can stay to defend the rim. Walton's interior defense can't make up for McAdoo's lack of post defense and that's what we're going to exploit.

There won't be an open man to the degree your offense expects there to be an open man. You just said that your offense relies on passing the ball (which you ideally do to find the open man for an efficient shot). We're not going to sag off a player to give them wide open shots so if you pass the ball, there's still going to be an elite defender guarding the player with the ball. The fact that we're not leaving our defensive assignments take away a majority of your 3 point shooting capabilities in your starting lineup (since Kidd can't make a 3 efficiently without being assisted on and Dumars probably in a similar scenario since the Pistons offense had a similar fashion). Your main scorers are going to be guarded by 2 DPOY in Moncrief and Garnett. Walton is a great post scorer but we'll take the risk of playing him physical (especially if we can get the hands off Baylor and McAdoo more) since his best statistical years weren't eye-popping offensively and try to encourage him to shoot the basket (trying to deny the ball to others) to limit his ability to run the offense from inside.

IT has guarded Magic Johnson so we don't believe he'll have trouble guarding Kidd. The point wasn't to say that Laimbeer stops players. But if players are capable of producing a certain level and Laimbeer can make it so their production is decreased, that's exactly what you're asking for in a center.

KnicksorBust
05-13-2015, 05:34 PM
Nice reply by Raps but the more I think about it the more I see that Seaside's write-up is correct. If you are going to try and get away with having a team that isn't elite at 3pt shooting than you need to at least be able to pound the ball down low. They don't have elite low post scorers or good floor spacing. That means a ton of mid-range shots (low percentage plays) and driving to the rim.

Markham's best penetrator is Zeke but he will be guarded by J-Kidd who was a lockdown PG defender in his prime. I actually wish Dumars was on English but that's a small point. With Walton protecting the rim I see Markham having some tough scoring games.

I like Seaside in 7 for the upset.

We do plan to do that as well. He's using McAdoo to guard Garnett. We're going to establish Garnett very low and he'll overpower McAdoo more times than not, who was not known to be a strong defender. If Walton closes in, Garnett will be able to pass to Laimbeer who can make shots from the 0-10 feet range on top of 15-under 22 feet. If his guards close in, that leaves Isiah/Thomas/Moncrief open for mid-range or drives). If he decides to really clog the paint, then we'll just leave Petrovic in the game in replace of English, who is still a dynamic scorer in his own right and will limit the amount of double teams they can place on KG down low.

But that is just it. If your main argument to my point is that Garnett will eat lunch down low then I don't buy it. He is not Shaq or Duncan. Especially considering Kidd can leave Zeke on the perimeter and double the block everytime.

Redrum187
05-13-2015, 05:38 PM
This is by far the most fun match up of the first round.

Raps18-19 Champ
05-13-2015, 05:47 PM
But that is just it. If your main argument to my point is that Garnett will eat lunch down low then I don't buy it. He is not Shaq or Duncan. Especially considering Kidd can leave Zeke on the perimeter and double the block everytime.

Not to say KG is Duncan in the post, but he's put up FG% slightly lower than Duncan inside. Granted not the same amount of attempts but if KG is against McAdoo, KGs FG% isn't going to suffer if he increases his FGA inside. If Kidd does commit, then leaving Thomas for a wide open mid-range shot. That won't be the death of them, but he's giving our team more opportunities for more efficient shots since he's going to leave them open.

valade16
05-13-2015, 06:12 PM
Not to say KG is Duncan in the post, but he's put up FG% slightly lower than Duncan inside. Granted not the same amount of attempts but if KG is against McAdoo, KGs FG% isn't going to suffer if he increases his FGA inside. If Kidd does commit, then leaving Thomas for a wide open mid-range shot. That won't be the death of them, but he's giving our team more opportunities for more efficient shots since he's going to leave them open.

McAdoo actually averaged 2.5 BPG during his prime. His problem wasn't that he couldn't play defense, it's that as he bounced around the league he didn't give consistent effort on defense.

Raps18-19 Champ
05-13-2015, 06:18 PM
McAdoo actually averaged 2.5 BPG during his prime. His problem wasn't that he couldn't play defense, it's that as he bounced around the league he didn't give consistent effort on defense.

And he'll continuously do it this series, which we'll utilize. He's also a bit undersized against our big men.

valade16
05-13-2015, 06:25 PM
And he'll continuously do it this series, which we'll utilize. He's also a bit undersized against our big men.

Undersized? KG was a stick for most of his career lol

Raps18-19 Champ
05-13-2015, 06:32 PM
Undersized? KG was a stick for most of his career lol

Garnett has a height and length advantage over him. KG shoots the ball pretty awkwardly with the ball nearly behind his head. Has like 20 pounds on him too.

KnicksorBust
05-13-2015, 07:18 PM
Someone do me a solid and post the score. I am on my phone.

valade16
05-13-2015, 07:34 PM
Someone do me a solid and post the score. I am on my phone.

6 - 4 Markham leads

Jets012
05-13-2015, 07:44 PM
I think Valade is one hell of a GM. One the best in these games. His write up was the only reason I struggled with this.

However, I just feel Markham is a bit too talented. I think the 3 point spacing isn't a huge issue as long as you have guys hat can shoot mid range jumpers. KG and most of the others provide that.

Markham by the slimmest of margins.

valade16
05-13-2015, 07:48 PM
I think Valade is one hell of a GM. One the best in these games. His write up was the only reason I struggled with this.

However, I just feel Markham is a bit too talented. I think the 3 point spacing isn't a huge issue as long as you have guys hat can shoot mid range jumpers. KG and most of the others provide that.

Markham by the slimmest of margins.

If I end up losing this match I suppose that's not a bad consolation prize. Thanks.

Mr. Baller
05-13-2015, 08:40 PM
I think Valade is one hell of a GM. One the best in these games. His write up was the only reason I struggled with this.

However, I just feel Markham is a bit too talented. I think the 3 point spacing isn't a huge issue as long as you have guys hat can shoot mid range jumpers. KG and most of the others provide that.

Markham by the slimmest of margins.

dupe?

Shammyguy3
05-13-2015, 10:40 PM
This is by far the most fun match up of the first round.

yes it definitely is, i'm loving the debate. I think both sides said their peace, now it's up to us to decide which offensive and defensive philosophies we trust more, which team has the right personnel to master those philosophies, and if you're still not quite 100% sure then it comes down to the talent difference if you see one.


I'm leaning one way as is, but i'm gonna re-read everything again tomorrow after I sleep on it because i think this series goes 7 games

MFFL==FML
05-14-2015, 12:12 AM
The spacing for markham is terrible.

I can't vote on this app, but I vote seaside in 5.

Raps18-19 Champ
05-14-2015, 12:20 AM
Are you the one that voted us 10th in the rankings?

MFFL==FML
05-14-2015, 12:33 AM
redrum/jerusalem
nate/flint
valade/seaside
matter/markham
rosh/queens
jon/malignant cove
kaner/gotham
KTS/Jacksonville
dhop/boise
Raidaz/Tel Aviv
ghost/new jersey
alau/hong kong

Nope. You were ranked 4th (seaside ahead).

Raps18-19 Champ
05-14-2015, 12:34 AM
Oh, okay, was just wondering.

valade16
05-14-2015, 07:31 AM
The spacing for markham is terrible.

I can't vote on this app, but I vote seaside in 5.

That counts as a vote right?

mightybosstone
05-14-2015, 08:42 AM
This was a really tough one. The teams are similarly built and both sides have guys that I love or think are overrated. Going into it, I was sure that I was voting Markham because I think that team has better overall talent in its starting five. But Valade had swayed me into thinking that Markham's roster might be a little fundamentally flawed.

The lack of floor spacing absolutely is an issue offensively for Markham. I do really like the mismatch of McAdoo defending KG in Markham's favor in this series, but I just think Seaside is more balanced on that end of the floor. Yes, they have 3-point shooters, but the passing skill of that starting five and overall offensive versatility is hard to ignore. And Markham's best interior defender is definitely KG, who will have his hands full guarding McAdoo everywhere on the floor out to 18 feet. If you leave Laimbeer one-on-one in the low post against Walton, Walton is winning that battle or Baylor's penetration with an open lane could create open looks for Kidd and Dumars.

The overall talent would win Markham some games as KG and Thomas inevitably keep them in the series, but I think Seaside's balance on both ends of the floor wins it for them in seven games. Great debate in here, though, guys! I wish my opponent was willing to debate me in my first-round matchup. :sigh:

valade16
05-14-2015, 09:30 AM
This was a really tough one. The teams are similarly built and both sides have guys that I love or think are overrated. Going into it, I was sure that I was voting Markham because I think that team has better overall talent in its starting five. But Valade had swayed me into thinking that Markham's roster might be a little fundamentally flawed.

The lack of floor spacing absolutely is an issue offensively for Markham. I do really like the mismatch of McAdoo defending KG in Markham's favor in this series, but I just think Seaside is more balanced on that end of the floor. Yes, they have 3-point shooters, but the passing skill of that starting five and overall offensive versatility is hard to ignore. And Markham's best interior defender is definitely KG, who will have his hands full guarding McAdoo everywhere on the floor out to 18 feet. If you leave Laimbeer one-on-one in the low post against Walton, Walton is winning that battle or Baylor's penetration with an open lane could create open looks for Kidd and Dumars.

The overall talent would win Markham some games as KG and Thomas inevitably keep them in the series, but I think Seaside's balance on both ends of the floor wins it for them in seven games. Great debate in here, though, guys! I wish my opponent was willing to debate me in my first-round matchup. :sigh:

Thanks. I want to ask, because you aren't the first to have said this and I want to better understand, when you say overall talent do you mean 1-5 talent or top end talent? Because I strongly feel my 1-5 are more talented collectively than his. Every single one of my guys was drafted in the top 75 of the draft (and more importantly, deserve to be drafted there). I think you could make a strong case 4 of the top 6 most talented players are mine (Garnett, Baylor, IT, Walton, Kidd, McAdoo) as well as the worst 2 players being his (Laimbeer and English).

Also, to whoever in the other thread that said write-ups are dumb or don't matter, I think this is now 3 votes I've swayed with my write-up. Write-ups matter.

Shammyguy3
05-14-2015, 10:29 AM
Like MBT and KoB, I vote for Seaside. I don't think this is an upset though, this a 4 seed versus a 5 seed (and I think both teams were placed fairly in the bracket).

Best debate by far, perhaps will be the best series in the first round too

mightybosstone
05-14-2015, 10:34 AM
Thanks. I want to ask, because you aren't the first to have said this and I want to better understand, when you say overall talent do you mean 1-5 talent or top end talent?
Strictly top end talent. I would argue that he's got two clear top 25 caliber players in KG and IT (although Thomas is definitely overrated in all-time discussions), while you have two borderline top 25 caliber guys in Baylor and Walton. But if you're talking overall talent from 1-5, I'd say it's probably relatively close.

Normally in re-draft games, though, the team with the better top end talent is likely to win that series. This is one of those instances where balance and a well constructed roster trumps top end talent. At least for me. And a quality write-up and debate certainly helped. Not to knock Raps, though, because he has argued for his team pretty damn well.


Because I strongly feel my 1-5 are more talented collectively than his. Every single one of my guys was drafted in the top 75 of the draft (and more importantly, deserve to be drafted there). I think you could make a strong case 4 of the top 6 most talented players are mine (Garnett, Baylor, IT, Walton, Kidd, McAdoo) as well as the worst 2 players being his (Laimbeer and English).
I'd say overall talent is fairly even between the two teams. I like their 1-2 punch better. But I'd probably give the slightest of edges to your starting five.


Also, to whoever in the other thread that said write-ups are dumb or don't matter, I think this is now 3 votes I've swayed with my write-up. Write-ups matter.
I agree. Plus, debating in this games is fun. Why do we play these games in the first place if we aren't going to talk and debate sports? The whole reason we come to PSD is to talk sports. And if you aren't willing to debate and discuss the history of the game and the strengths and weaknesses of these athletes, why in the hell did you sign up for an all-time re-draft?

Raps18-19 Champ
05-14-2015, 11:14 AM
This was a really tough one. The teams are similarly built and both sides have guys that I love or think are overrated. Going into it, I was sure that I was voting Markham because I think that team has better overall talent in its starting five. But Valade had swayed me into thinking that Markham's roster might be a little fundamentally flawed.

The lack of floor spacing absolutely is an issue offensively for Markham. I do really like the mismatch of McAdoo defending KG in Markham's favor in this series, but I just think Seaside is more balanced on that end of the floor. Yes, they have 3-point shooters, but the passing skill of that starting five and overall offensive versatility is hard to ignore. And Markham's best interior defender is definitely KG, who will have his hands full guarding McAdoo everywhere on the floor out to 18 feet. If you leave Laimbeer one-on-one in the low post against Walton, Walton is winning that battle or Baylor's penetration with an open lane could create open looks for Kidd and Dumars.

The overall talent would win Markham some games as KG and Thomas inevitably keep them in the series, but I think Seaside's balance on both ends of the floor wins it for them in seven games. Great debate in here, though, guys! I wish my opponent was willing to debate me in my first-round matchup. :sigh:

Well the idea was to take the rest and we let Walton battle it out against Laimbeer to try to force the issue of Walton being a scorer (who wasn't a dominant force per se in the paint) by not double teaming to reduce his opportunities to pass the open man (Kidd and Dumars, who we aren't necessarily scared of as 3 point shooters if they are not wide open, which we think mitigates a lot of their outside shooting). Baylor is guarded by Moncrief so that would be a back and forth battle regarding Baylor's ability to score.

But you already voted.

Raps18-19 Champ
05-14-2015, 11:16 AM
10-10 so far.

QuatreBarton vote doesn't count since he has like 8 posts and MFFL's vote not reflected in the poll yet.

KnicksorBust
05-14-2015, 11:19 AM
Thanks. I want to ask, because you aren't the first to have said this and I want to better understand, when you say overall talent do you mean 1-5 talent or top end talent? Because I strongly feel my 1-5 are more talented collectively than his. Every single one of my guys was drafted in the top 75 of the draft (and more importantly, deserve to be drafted there). I think you could make a strong case 4 of the top 6 most talented players are mine (Garnett, Baylor, IT, Walton, Kidd, McAdoo) as well as the worst 2 players being his (Laimbeer and English).

Also, to whoever in the other thread that said write-ups are dumb or don't matter, I think this is now 3 votes I've swayed with my write-up. Write-ups matter.

Exactly. If you had xxplayer's mentality you would be down 11-5 right now and say it was over. Then the thread would just die and he'd move on.

mightybosstone
05-14-2015, 12:06 PM
Well the idea was to take the rest and we let Walton battle it out against Laimbeer to try to force the issue of Walton being a scorer (who wasn't a dominant force per se in the paint) by not double teaming to reduce his opportunities to pass the open man (Kidd and Dumars, who we aren't necessarily scared of as 3 point shooters if they are not wide open, which we think mitigates a lot of their outside shooting). Baylor is guarded by Moncrief so that would be a back and forth battle regarding Baylor's ability to score.

But you already voted.

Mmm..... I still think Walton wins a one-on-one battle in the paint against Laimbeer, who was hardly an elite (although still very physical) defender in his era. Also, why are you so quick to dismiss Dumars as a 3-point shooter? The guy shot 38% from the 3-point line in his career and was pretty deadly from beyond the arc at his peak in the early 90s. Kidd's 3-point shooting is a fair criticism, although he is 10th all-time in postseason 3-pointers made. Baylor being defended by Moncrief is nice, but their perimeter defense is every bit as good as yours and is arguably better because of the trio of Kidd/Dumars/Baylor.

This was a tough vote, man. I kind of felt bad voting for either team because both squads were well constructed and you guys have done a great job arguing your cases. I just think your squad has a few holes and Valade did a good of pointing out those holes and exploiting them.

Shammyguy3
05-14-2015, 12:15 PM
This was a tough vote, man. I kind of felt bad voting for either team because both squads were well constructed and you guys have done a great job arguing your cases. I just think your squad has a few holes and Valade did a good of pointing out those holes and exploiting them.

Yeah, this is such a good matchup. Conference Finals worthy any given year

Raps18-19 Champ
05-14-2015, 12:16 PM
Mmm..... I still think Walton wins a one-on-one battle in the paint against Laimbeer, who was hardly an elite (although still very physical) defender in his era. Also, why are you so quick to dismiss Dumars as a 3-point shooter? The guy shot 38% from the 3-point line in his career and was pretty deadly from beyond the arc at his peak in the early 90s. Kidd's 3-point shooting is a fair criticism, although he is 10th all-time in postseason 3-pointers made. Baylor being defended by Moncrief is nice, but their perimeter defense is every bit as good as yours and is arguably better because of the trio of Kidd/Dumars/Baylor.

This was a tough vote, man. I kind of felt bad voting for either team because both squads were well constructed and you guys have done a great job arguing your cases. I just think your squad has a few holes and Valade did a good of pointing out those holes and exploiting them.

Walton has the advantage one on one, but forcing him to be a scorer against Chandler/Laimbeer would take the ball out of Baylor and McAdoo's hands (his best scorers) since once he gets the ball in the post, we'd try to deny the ball to other players once Walton gets the ball so there'd be less ball movement. I was more going with the idea that Dumars wouldn't be able to create his own shot from 3, and he's not necessarily known to be able to create his shot and that by keeping a man on him, would limit his attempts and makes at 3. But then there's not a lot on data on his ability to shoot 3s so we're kinda just speculating here. Even then, we were thinking someone like Drazen would be able to match the 3 point production of someone like Dumars.

mightybosstone
05-14-2015, 12:42 PM
Walton has the advantage one on one, but forcing him to be a scorer against Chandler/Laimbeer would take the ball out of Baylor and McAdoo's hands (his best scorers) since once he gets the ball in the post, we'd try to deny the ball to other players once Walton gets the ball so there'd be less ball movement. I was more going with the idea that Dumars wouldn't be able to create his own shot from 3, and he's not necessarily known to be able to create his shot and that by keeping a man on him, would limit his attempts and makes at 3. But then there's not a lot on data on his ability to shoot 3s so we're kinda just speculating here. Even then, we were thinking someone like Drazen would be able to match the 3 point production of someone like Dumars.

Yeah, but if you really want Drazen to match that production, I kind of think you have to start him. If I were you, I actually might have. Think about it, what do you really get from starting English? He's a true SF and he gets you legitimate, efficient scoring, but do you really need it? You've already got IT, Moncrief and Garnett in your starting five, and Petrovic still gets you a super efficient 20+ a night at his peak. Plus, you really don't need a true SF in your lineup since you're defending Baylor with Moncrief anyway. Petrovic would have done wonders for your floor spacing and probably would have gotten you some votes.

English is the better player, but Petrovic would have fit your starting five better and helped you more in this series in terms of floor spacing. If you advance, I would seriously consider starting Petrovic if you can depending on the matchup.

Raps18-19 Champ
05-14-2015, 12:59 PM
Yeah, but if you really want Drazen to match that production, I kind of think you have to start him. If I were you, I actually might have. Think about it, what do you really get from starting English? He's a true SF and he gets you legitimate, efficient scoring, but do you really need it? You've already got IT, Moncrief and Garnett in your starting five, and Petrovic still gets you a super efficient 20+ a night at his peak. Plus, you really don't need a true SF in your lineup since you're defending Baylor with Moncrief anyway. Petrovic would have done wonders for your floor spacing and probably would have gotten you some votes.

English is the better player, but Petrovic would have fit your starting five better and helped you more in this series in terms of floor spacing. If you advance, I would seriously consider starting Petrovic if you can depending on the matchup.

Well Drazen is going to play 30+ mins as my 6th man. Not sure how much that played into a factor when people voted though.

mightybosstone
05-14-2015, 01:05 PM
Well Drazen is going to play 30+ mins as my 6th man. Not sure how much that played into a factor when people voted though.

How exactly? If you're going to give Moncrief and English legitimate starters minutes at the two wings (35+), then that leaves a maximum of 26 available minutes per game for Petrovic. And that would really limit the number of minutes that Moncrief and English are on the floor together (maximum of 22 minutes together in that scenario). That also eliminates any minutes Crawford could potentially get on the wings.

Killerjug
05-14-2015, 01:13 PM
Winner of this series should be a good one against Jerusalem

Raps18-19 Champ
05-14-2015, 01:23 PM
How exactly? If you're going to give Moncrief and English legitimate starters minutes at the two wings (35+), then that leaves a maximum of 26 available minutes per game for Petrovic. And that would really limit the number of minutes that Moncrief and English are on the floor together (maximum of 22 minutes together in that scenario). That also eliminates any minutes Crawford could potentially get on the wings.

SF- English (32), Drazen (16)
SG- Moncrief (24), Drazen (24)
PG- Thomas (36), Moncrief (12)

More or less something like that and you probably do a +/- 3 mins depending on how the game is going. We always viewed English's and Petrovic's minutes as interchangeable. Crawford is in there as a spark but we don't plan on playing him much, if any. He said he was going to go small with Baylor at PF too, so let's me play something like Garnett, English/Wilkes, Petrovic, Moncrief, Thomas.

valade16
05-14-2015, 02:14 PM
Winner of this series should be a good one against Jerusalem

Is that matchup set in stone? Or would we be bumped if a 6 or 7 seed upsets?

Matter.
05-14-2015, 02:15 PM
Is that matchup set in stone? Or would we be bumped if a 6 or 7 seed upsets?

It's set in stone winner faces 1/8 and 2/7 faces 3/6 regardless of outcome!!

KnicksorBust
05-14-2015, 04:04 PM
How exactly? If you're going to give Moncrief and English legitimate starters minutes at the two wings (35+), then that leaves a maximum of 26 available minutes per game for Petrovic. And that would really limit the number of minutes that Moncrief and English are on the floor together (maximum of 22 minutes together in that scenario). That also eliminates any minutes Crawford could potentially get on the wings.

SF- English (32), Drazen (16)
SG- Moncrief (24), Drazen (24)
PG- Thomas (36), Moncrief (12)

More or less something like that and you probably do a +/- 3 mins depending on how the game is going. We always viewed English's and Petrovic's minutes as interchangeable. Crawford is in there as a spark but we don't plan on playing him much, if any. He said he was going to go small with Baylor at PF too, so let's me play something like Garnett, English/Wilkes, Petrovic, Moncrief, Thomas.

Drazen is playing more minutes than Isiah Thomas and Sidney Moncrief. I saw that sharpshooter live but you might want to adjust that?

Raps18-19 Champ
05-14-2015, 05:59 PM
Sorry my math was off. I was trying to make his minutes add up to 30, not 40. But yea, just give the 10 mins to IT and Moncrief

Shammyguy3
05-14-2015, 07:45 PM
The spacing for markham is terrible.

I can't vote on this app, but I vote seaside in 5.




EDIT: you're right valade, my bad.

The poll reads 11-10 Markham, however the official vote count for this matchup is 11-10 Seaside in the lead. QuatreBarton (only 8 posts as a user) does not meet the 100 vote minimum for the games (minus one vote for Markham), and MFFL's votes for Seaside per his post above (plus one vote for Seaside)

valade16
05-14-2015, 07:50 PM
the official vote count for this matchup is 11-10 Markham in the lead. QuatreBarton (only 8 posts as a user) does not meet the 100 vote minimum for the games, but MFFL's vote above replaces his. So that's where we stand right now.

Shouldn't it be 11-10 Seaside in the lead?

It is 11-10 in the poll for Markham but QuatreBarton (who voted for Markham) doesn't count so that makes it 10-10, then MFFL votes for Seaside making it 11-10 Seaside.

Shammyguy3
05-14-2015, 07:57 PM
My bad valade, i edited my post

valade16
05-14-2015, 08:02 PM
My bad valade, i edited my post

No worries, you're still rockin it lol

NYKalltheway
05-14-2015, 10:18 PM
Seaside wins this rather easy imo. Markham seems like a collection of big names while Seaside looks like a basketball team.

Matter.
05-14-2015, 11:06 PM
I don't understand how you guys are saying that we will have trouble scoring the ball when Seasides best scorers are defended by arguably a top 5 perimeter defender in Moncrief and an amazing defender in Garnett , not to mention Zeke being a amazing defender also , as much as we lack spacing I believe that seaside will have trouble scoring even more then us

Raps18-19 Champ
05-15-2015, 12:57 AM
Seaside wins this rather easy imo. Markham seems like a collection of big names while Seaside looks like a basketball team.

I dont know about rather easy. And our team, while some weaknesses, has structure and a clear identity.

KnicksorBust
05-15-2015, 06:02 AM
I don't understand how you guys are saying that we will have trouble scoring the ball when Seasides best scorers are defended by arguably a top 5 perimeter defender in Moncrief and an amazing defender in Garnett , not to mention Zeke being a amazing defender also , as much as we lack spacing I believe that seaside will have trouble scoring even more then us

Your starters can't make shots from the perimeter and can't win the battle on the low post. That is two huge offensive issues. His team is far more balanced and dangerous in that respect.

Matter.
05-15-2015, 06:55 AM
Seaside wins this rather easy imo. Markham seems like a collection of big names while Seaside looks like a basketball team.

I don't get why you would say that, this is a improved Bad Boy Pistons squad

Raps18-19 Champ
05-15-2015, 01:12 PM
Your starters can't make shots from the perimeter and can't win the battle on the low post. That is two huge offensive issues. His team is far more balanced and dangerous in that respect.

If we started Petrovic, which matches the production of their team from the 3 point line, does that make a difference for you?

valade16
05-15-2015, 01:24 PM
If we started Petrovic, which matches the production of their team from the 3 point line, does that make a difference for you?

I think this creates more problems than it solves. First, Drazen will be guarded by Joe Dumars, who would be pretty good at preventing him from getting clean looks. Second, If Drazen replaces English suddenly that rebounding advantage that I talked about comes back into play. Walton was a better rebounder then either Laimbeer or KG and McAdoo, Baylor and Kidd are all elite rebounders for their position. If your team is shooting mostly midrange shots the rebounds are likely going to be longer ones, so Kidd, Baylor and McAdoo will be in prime position to grab them. Third, Drazen is a big step down talent wise and his defense wasn't all that great. Joe Dumars can certainly get the open looks he wants against Drazen which pretty much negates any 3Pt advantage he'd bring.

Redrum187
05-15-2015, 01:57 PM
I think it's funny how a good defender "shuts down"/"negates"/"neutralizes" etc... a superior offensive player. With the way some of you talk, Tony Allen should be a borderline 1st round draft pick considering his elite defense that would "negate" Stephen Curry's offense.

In reality, elite defenders slow down or make it a little more difficult for all time great offensive players, they don't shut them down.

Anyways, this match up comes down to which do you want... Big names or a slightly smaller names but slightly better fit? I'm slightly leaning one direction as of this moment.

Raps18-19 Champ
05-15-2015, 04:01 PM
I think this creates more problems than it solves. First, Drazen will be guarded by Joe Dumars, who would be pretty good at preventing him from getting clean looks. Second, If Drazen replaces English suddenly that rebounding advantage that I talked about comes back into play. Walton was a better rebounder then either Laimbeer or KG and McAdoo, Baylor and Kidd are all elite rebounders for their position. If your team is shooting mostly midrange shots the rebounds are likely going to be longer ones, so Kidd, Baylor and McAdoo will be in prime position to grab them. Third, Drazen is a big step down talent wise and his defense wasn't all that great. Joe Dumars can certainly get the open looks he wants against Drazen which pretty much negates any 3Pt advantage he'd bring.

Well Drazen can create his own shots and has done so against great defenders before, and even then, the same would happen for Dumars with someone like Isiah/Drazen/English guarding him defensively (depending on the matchups), so both won't be getting clean looks anyway. It's not like English is not going to play minutes, he'll still play 30+ mins so the Baylor isn't going to dominate rebounding the glass. Even then, rotation is more important than who is starting and who is not, so in the course of the game, starting English doesn't mean we can't make 3 point shots when Drazen will be playing 30+ mins or starting Drazen won't mean we'll be pounded on the glass when English will be playing the same amount of minutes as Drazen would be.

valade16
05-15-2015, 04:12 PM
Well Drazen can create his own shots and has done so against great defenders before, and even then, the same would happen for Dumars with someone like Isiah/Drazen/English guarding him defensively (depending on the matchups), so both won't be getting clean looks anyway. It's not like English is not going to play minutes, he'll still play 30+ mins so the Baylor isn't going to dominate rebounding the glass. Even then, rotation is more important than who is starting and who is not, so in the course of the game, starting English doesn't mean we can't make 3 point shots when Drazen will be playing 30+ mins or starting Drazen won't mean we'll be pounded on the glass when English will be playing the same amount of minutes as Drazen would be.

I don't buy Drazen/English being able to slow down Dumars to the same degree Dumars will be able to slow Drazen (or any of them really) down.

Raps18-19 Champ
05-15-2015, 04:19 PM
I don't buy Drazen/English being able to slow down Dumars to the same degree Dumars will be able to slow Drazen (or any of them really) down.

Dumars isn't exactly a dynamic scorer who shot over guys and he's your 4th option for the most part on your team. He's not going to get that much attempts compared to the rest of the guys that it's the end of our team if he's guarded by Petrovic. For the 2-3 attempts Dumars probably takes in a game from 3 this series, he'll make like 1 a game. We're not trying to concern ourselves about trying to shutting down Dumars.

Matter.
05-15-2015, 04:23 PM
I don't buy Drazen/English being able to slow down Dumars to the same degree Dumars will be able to slow Drazen (or any of them really) down.

Question is who outside of dumars is scoring for you

valade16
05-15-2015, 04:50 PM
Question is who outside of dumars is scoring for you

I could ask the same of you.

Shammyguy3
05-15-2015, 06:15 PM
less than 1 hour left for the poll, last call for votes

Shammyguy3
05-15-2015, 07:15 PM
Seaside advances, thanks for everyone who voted

Raps18-19 Champ
05-15-2015, 08:00 PM
GG Valade.

Lakers + Giants
05-15-2015, 09:28 PM
Valade! :cheers:

Matter.
05-15-2015, 10:05 PM
Ah good game valade hope you beat Jerusalem

Shammyguy3
05-15-2015, 10:15 PM
great matchup guys

Raps18-19 Champ
05-16-2015, 03:04 PM
Voting finished like 20 hours ago.

Sadds The Gr8
05-16-2015, 03:28 PM
Voting finished like 20 hours ago.

dupe...

Raps18-19 Champ
05-16-2015, 03:51 PM
Oh, lol didn't notice.

NYKalltheway
05-17-2015, 08:27 PM
I dont know about rather easy. And our team, while some weaknesses, has structure and a clear identity.

This is an ultra-defensive team (which I'm a huge fan of), that has a hole against the biggest offensive weapon of your opponent (English defensively vs Elgin Baylor!), has no range farther than midrange unless Drazen comes on, which will mean that your wings will be exposed defensively so there goes 'defensive juggernaut' style you wanted to have.

And I think you underestimate the effect Jason Kidd will have on Isiah Thomas.

I don't get why you would say that, this is a improved Bad Boy Pistons squad

Improved how? Just because you have 2-3 players from that team doesn't make it improved. The roster seems very faulty to me other than a nice collection of star-names.

Raps18-19 Champ
05-17-2015, 08:30 PM
This is an ultra-defensive team (which I'm a huge fan of), that has a hole against the biggest offensive weapon of your opponent (English defensively vs Elgin Baylor!), has no range farther than midrange unless Drazen comes on, which will mean that your wings will be exposed defensively so there goes 'defensive juggernaut' style you wanted to have.

And I think you underestimate the effect Jason Kidd will have on Isiah Thomas.


Improved how? Just because you have 2-3 players from that team doesn't make it improved. The roster seems very faulty to me other than a nice collection of star-names.

What are you talking about? We have a 2x DPOY on Baylor. Not to mention Drazen will play starter minutes and he can match the production against Dumars. So pretty much you didn't even read the writeups.

NYKalltheway
05-19-2015, 05:38 PM
What are you talking about? We have a 2x DPOY on Baylor. Not to mention Drazen will play starter minutes and he can match the production against Dumars. So pretty much you didn't even read the writeups.

I did read it but I thought it was some kind of a joke because there's no way Moncrief can handle Baylor. Moncrief is probably one of the best perimeter players but problem is, Baylor is no perimeter player. So you're basically putting your strongest defensive asset in jeopardy. Plus, the other write up mentions Baylor playing at PF (despite his size, he can perform there with success). Then, you also forget to add that Moncrief will have to focus his energy defensively on Baylor who's one of the toughest players of all time to defend and on offense, where Moncrief was no slouch, he has to face Joe Dumars who is hailed as the 'next' Moncrief in terms of defense. You're basically eliminating one of your only assets so I tried to give you a heads up by assuming that you didn't really think anything in basketball terms but rather in name-terms, so Alex English will have to go on Baylor unless you want Moncrief being ineffective and Dumars being a factor offensively for Seaside....