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Clippersfan86
05-09-2015, 12:47 PM
Chronz mentioned a possible decline in Bulls vs Cavs thread, it got me wondering so I dug into this and noticed in the postseason Lebron's TS% is 49 percent! He seems pretty young to start declining and Jimmy Butler's 1 on 1 effectiveness on him has surprised me. Is this a fluke playoff run? Or the start of a legit decline?

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-09-2015, 12:48 PM
Uhhhhhh yes!!!!! I called it out first btw

Mr. Baller
05-09-2015, 12:48 PM
If its a decline its very small. Butler is a lock down defender and LeBron is overcompensating by having to do everything for this Cleveland offense right now.

Tony_Starks
05-09-2015, 01:06 PM
Not really he's just getting locked up. Just like with Kawhi. Just like with Marion during the Dallas Finals. Defenders with length give him problems, he's human....

G_S_W
05-09-2015, 01:18 PM
This is clearly a different, inferior, less efficient version of LBJ. The playoffs aren't the issue, it's his performance the entire season. He lacks the speed and explosiveness of LBJ v1 (CLE1) and the size, strength and efficiency of LBJ2 (MIA).

He's played an incredible number of games going to 4 straight finals, plus he's dropped a lot of weight (to save wear and tear?), resulting in a very different player than the one we're used to seeing.

He's still the best player in the game, but the margin is far slimmer than it was before.

TylerSL
05-09-2015, 01:27 PM
I do not believe 2015 Lebron James is playing 100% as good as 2013 Lebron James. However he is still playing at least 90% as good and even though he may not be playing the best he's ever played it in no way means his talents are diminishing. When he was in Miami he was on a team that was specifically built around him. Every part of that team was constructed for Lebron to utilize on the court. Bosh improving his range, all the 3 point shooters, Wade drawing his own attention as well as moving without the ball, Birdman wreaking havoc down low. All while Lebron had the ball in his hands ready to make the right play. Everything around him was set up perfectly. Miami completely conformed to Lebron.

With the Heat everything was specifically set up for Lebron to succeed, he just had to go out in play. In Cleveland it's really not the same. I'm not saying the Cavalier personnel is set up for Lebron to fail, but the entire team isn't constructed for him to utilize. Kyrie Irving is not going to take a back seat like Wade, Love hasn't made the defensive improvements Bosh made, ect. He was FAR more efficient in Miami because of that, and I find it doubtful he will ever truly be as comfortable on the court again as he was in Miami.

Again, that said it doesn't mean he isn't as good of a player, just his environment is different. Next season he will probably be much more efficent because he did have to get used to being back in Cleveland this year. However he wont shoot 57% from the floor again like he did in Miami. This year he averaged 25/7/6 on 49% shooting, I would expect him to be back up to around 27/7/7 on over 50% shooting again next year.

This postseason his efficiency is down because he shooting far more than he used to. He is shooting the ball 24 times a game this postseason, highest of his career regular season or postseason. He never was a great 3 point shooter and he is shooting .156 from behind the arc this postseason while jacking 4.6 3's a game. So between shooting too much and him not being able to hit a 3 is why his TS% is 49%. Butler has played him magnificently, but that's not reason Lebron's been struggling this badly.

I would attribute most of his decrease in stats to just him having to do more on the court in Cleveland than he had to in Miami. Again in Miami everything was perfectly set up and in Cleveland he had learn how to play with Kyrie/Love. He'll be more efficient next year and I think he should be the early favorite for the 2015-2016 NBA MVP award.

Chronz
05-09-2015, 01:33 PM
Hes been on the decline since his last year in Miami but he's doing way worse this year. Could be for a variety of factors but i certainly expect him to improve upon his current standards

Tony_Starks
05-09-2015, 01:40 PM
The Bulls aren't exactly chopped liver defensively btw. How about we give them a little credit....

Chronz
05-09-2015, 01:44 PM
The Bulls aren't exactly chopped liver defensively btw. How about we give them a little credit....
They've always been good defensively, better in fact. And this ain't BronS first rodeo with them. That said, Irving was hurt and love is out

TylerSL
05-09-2015, 01:51 PM
The Bulls aren't exactly chopped liver defensively btw. How about we give them a little credit....

Lebron's fared better against better defensive Bulls teams in the past too.

Tony_Starks
05-09-2015, 01:55 PM
The Bulls aren't exactly chopped liver defensively btw. How about we give them a little credit....
They've always been good defensively, better in fact. And this ain't BronS first rodeo with them. That said, Irving was hurt and love is out

Its the best Bulls he has faced defensively with Jimmy to put the clamps on him and two 7 footers lurking. Plus he doesn't get to relax on D. True enough Love and Irving's situations don't help.

He's great enough to figure it out but he's definitely looked confused so far as to when to take over when to facilitate. Looks like the old Lebron vs Celtics Lebron so far....

HeatFan
05-09-2015, 02:06 PM
Any player that has experienced success built on physical attributes mainly is bound to decline at some point that is generally earlier than players with more skill. This could be part of the reason he seems to be declining. He is still as athletic as there is in the NBA, but the fact is that at 30 its not the same as 20, and other players are just as athletic or very close (like a Kawhi or Bulter) which makes him have to do even more.

To his defense, he has become a better shooter even if statistics don't necessarily back it up. A 3 pointer from Lebron now is much more reliable than it was 7 years ago. If he can continue to develop skills that are not so dependent on athleticism, he is smart enough to make it up for any physical decline. Its not a secret that when you play good team defense against any Lebron team you are bound to have success. I've been saying it since before the playoffs, Chicago has always been a difficult team for Lebron since Thibs is coach.

HeatFan
05-09-2015, 02:08 PM
Lebron's fared better against better defensive Bulls teams in the past too.

He fared better because offensively the Bulls weren't as good as they are this season. Defense has always been a Chicago staple since Thibs is the coach.

Chronz
05-09-2015, 02:50 PM
He fared better because offensively the Bulls weren't as good as they are this season. Defense has always been a Chicago staple since Thibs is the coach.
I don't buy that. Defensive efficiency is more important. Besides, if you watch him, his defense has been very lax

jerellh528
05-09-2015, 02:59 PM
Naw, he's just coasting. You guys need to realize he can dominate whenever he wants to. He's just creating drama for the playoffs. Just wait until he turns the boost on and starts guarding 1-5 at an elite level and plays pg better than magic.

HeatFan
05-09-2015, 03:07 PM
I don't buy that. Defensive efficiency is more important. Besides, if you watch him, his defense has been very lax

Defensive efficiency is important. A great defense with below-average offense is not the same as good (sometimes great) defense with much better offense. Defensively, no matter how good you are, if you can't get a bucket no the other side after all the effort, it does deflate team morale, spirit and sometime even effort itself.

Lebron against the Bulls for the past few years was mostly focusing on the offensive side and save energy on the defensive side (guarding a slower Loul Deng for example), which sets him up for more energy on the offensive side, plus age factor. Now, he has to be just as great on both sides and that has to take a toll. Thus, he fared better against previous Bulls team than he probably will against this Bulls team when its all said and done. I would also add that the Heat team, even with all their flaws, defended much better than this Cavs team.

HeatFan
05-09-2015, 03:11 PM
Naw, he's just coasting. You guys need to realize he can dominate whenever he wants to. He's just creating drama for the playoffs. Just wait until he turns the boost on and starts guarding 1-5 at an elite level and plays pg better than magic.

Although I do think he is capable of taking over, I think you are overstating that he is purposely taking it slow to make it more dramatic. I'm sure if he could have swept the series and rest for the ECF, he would take that in a heartbeat.

jerellh528
05-09-2015, 03:12 PM
Although I do think he is capable of taking over, I think you are overstating that he is purposely taking it slow to make it more dramatic. I'm sure if he could have swept the series and rest for the ECF, he would take that in a heartbeat.

You might be right but I think he's just coasting. Saving himself for the finals

nickdymez
05-09-2015, 03:15 PM
you guys are crazy. Lebron could sit out for 3 games, go down 0-3, and then come back and sweep the team BY HIMSELF. He's out there playing with a bunch of college guys who are giving him nothing. I honestly think the rest of the team is getting in his way. Trust me, as soon as Lebron feels like actually playing, it wont be close. He's out there playing at about 30% and his T/S and W/S are off the charts!! Think about if he plays at 40-45%?? woooooooooo

phantasyyy
05-09-2015, 03:19 PM
you guys are crazy. Lebron could sit out for 3 games, go down 0-3, and then come back and sweep the team BY HIMSELF. He's out there playing with a bunch of college guys who are giving him nothing. I honestly think the rest of the team is getting in his way. Trust me, as soon as Lebron feels like actually playing, it wont be close. He's out there playing at about 30% and his T/S and W/S are off the charts!! Think about if he plays at 40-45%?? woooooooooo

Yeah man.. he hasnt even turned super saiyan yet.. just wait till his hair grows back, he'll be soooooooo unstoppable!

Chronz
05-09-2015, 03:22 PM
Defensive efficiency is important. A great defense with below-average offense is not the same as good (sometimes great) defense with much better offense. Defensively, no matter how good you are, if you can't get a bucket no the other side after all the effort, it does deflate team morale, spirit and sometime even effort itself.
Sounds clever and intuitive but it just reeks of cliche talk to me, maybe its circumstantial but on average, with regards to suppressing individual/team efficiency, defense matters more. Makes for an interesting case study but everything I've ever seen suggests defense matters MUCH more.


Lebron against the Bulls for the past few years was mostly focusing on the offensive side and save energy on the defensive side (guarding a slower Loul Deng for example), which sets him up for more energy on the offensive side, plus age factor. Now, he has to be just as great on both sides and that has to take a toll. Thus, he fared better against previous Bulls team than he probably will against this Bulls team when its all said and done. I would also add that the Heat team, even with all their flaws, defended much better than this Cavs team.
I dont see him expending too much energy defensively, and he also took on the greatest challenge come 4th quarters when defending the MVP back then with no loss for it. The guy is just declining. This year, hes taken his breaks whenever he could and was very content with switching instead of fighting over screens. Whats more taxing for him is the fact that he has to operate as a bigman on rotations when they've gone small and without Kyrie/Love, this has been the greatest load hes carried thus far. I can only imagine how awful he would have looked had Noah been as healthy as hes been in the past.

Chronz
05-09-2015, 03:26 PM
you guys are crazy. Lebron could sit out for 3 games, go down 0-3, and then come back and sweep the team BY HIMSELF. He's out there playing with a bunch of college guys who are giving him nothing. I honestly think the rest of the team is getting in his way. Trust me, as soon as Lebron feels like actually playing, it wont be close. He's out there playing at about 30% and his T/S and W/S are off the charts!! Think about if he plays at 40-45%?? woooooooooo

They're at playoff lows. When you Laker fans troll, can you at least make sense, better yet, why not wait for the grown ups to be done with the actual discussion before devolving the argument into your usual shtick .

mngopher35
05-09-2015, 03:41 PM
He's been declining athletically for a while but last year in Miami was the first time I thought he was probably starting the real decline as a player. I think this might be the first season in a while where he may not be the best player anymore.


He is still great but it seems evident he's declining.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-09-2015, 04:44 PM
He's been declining athletically for a while but last year in Miami was the first time I thought he was probably starting the real decline as a player. I think this might be the first season in a while where he may not be the best player anymore.


He is still great but it seems evident he's declining.

Well said

Chronz
05-09-2015, 04:55 PM
He's been declining athletically for a while but last year in Miami was the first time I thought he was probably starting the real decline as a player. I think this might be the first season in a while where he may not be the best player anymore.


He is still great but it seems evident he's declining.

Agreed, I remember getting crucified (on another forum) for suggesting hes no longer the same isolation bully he used to be because his first step and agility had declined. Hes become a better shooter and post player but that was when he was playing at 260 or whatever it was. Its a new phase of his career, I hope he compensates again.

Tony_Starks
05-09-2015, 04:58 PM
He's been declining athletically for a while but last year in Miami was the first time I thought he was probably starting the real decline as a player. I think this might be the first season in a while where he may not be the best player anymore.


He is still great but it seems evident he's declining.

The great players add skill as their physical abilities diminish. Kobe has been playing below the rim for damn near a decade and was still elite prior to serious injury based off footwork. Same for Duncan.

ewing
05-09-2015, 05:01 PM
Naw, he's just coasting. You guys need to realize he can dominate whenever he wants to. He's just creating drama for the playoffs. Just wait until he turns the boost on and starts guarding 1-5 at an elite level and plays pg better than magic.

so he's been coasting his whole career

Ty22Mitchell
05-09-2015, 06:05 PM
In before LeBron wins Finals MVP and his 3rd ring.

JasonJohnHorn
05-09-2015, 07:06 PM
LBJ has struggled against defenders in the post season in the past. If can he hard. A guy studies your game and comes prepared with weapons. Tayshuan Prince did it to him back when Cleveland and the Pistons went head-to-head; half way through the series he had it worked out. You burn a guy one night; he watches the video, makes adjustments. You come back with the same game plan, he locks you up. You are trying something new by the end of the game, he watches tape and makes adjustments for that. You change things up the next game.

Deng has locked up LBJ before, Prince, Marion. It happens when you meet a good defender in the post season.

Hawkeye15
05-09-2015, 07:14 PM
I don't see the same first step burst anymore, and clearly playing so many playoff games by age 30 plus regular season has put LeBron into chill mode for long periods of time.

He probably wasn't the best player in the league this year for the first time since the 07-08' season, and with some younger guys getting to superstar level (AD, Curry, Durant will be back), we might have seen the last of LeBron being #1.

Interesting to see what else he starts to add to compensate as he declines more.

xxplayerxx23
05-09-2015, 07:15 PM
Not really he's just getting locked up. Just like with Kawhi. Just like with Marion during the Dallas Finals. Defenders with length give him problems, he's human....


Didn't he average 30 a game on a high % vs Leonard lol

naps
05-09-2015, 07:17 PM
I am not so sure he should have lost weight and get leaner. I mean he was literally abusing everyone in the post when he was in Miami.

Kobephilies troll like LeBron must have done something to their families.

IndyRealist
05-09-2015, 07:52 PM
Lebron has been on a small but significant decline during his last year in Miami.

Players peak statistically around 28. Lebron is 30 and started declining about 2 years ago. Yay, analytics.

NYJ - NYY
05-09-2015, 08:54 PM
Lebron is the best in the game and the Bulls d is suffocating ... I'm a Knicks fan but I respect his game

ODB13
05-09-2015, 09:00 PM
LeBron's skill set was always limited, so this shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

Shammyguy3
05-09-2015, 09:09 PM
LeBron's skill set was always limited, so this shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

Explain how his skill set was limited, especially over the past few seasons.

bucketss
05-09-2015, 10:14 PM
a lot of wishful thinking in this thread

IKnowHoops
05-09-2015, 11:58 PM
I personally believe that not playing all summer and having a whole new team in which he has been a player/coach has hurt his statistics. This year has been an experiment of sorts, and everyone, even Bron is trying to fit in. Finding that fit will hurt your game and your stats. I think next year Lebron has a better year than this year by a good margin. MVP season.

koreancabbage
05-10-2015, 12:12 AM
LeBron's skill set was always limited, so this shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

ROFL what? unless you count all rounds skills as one skill... who's troll account are you?

Jonathan2323
05-10-2015, 12:16 AM
LeBron doesn't post up as much anymore. Also not as efficient as he was in Miami. Spo was obsessed with getting efficient shots and in Cleveland he probably gets to do whatever he wants.

JLynn943
05-10-2015, 12:34 AM
I think he's had a slight decline for sure. It's hard to maintain the level of athleticism he had 5 years ago, especially with how much he has played (even if he is still an insane athlete). What has helped is that he has improved other aspects of his game, like his shooting.

I think the biggest (maybe only) decline has been in his iso game. It looks predictable, and he's going up against some players intelligent and athletic enough to know what's coming and deal with it. Watching 15 jab steps and then launching a 3 is just ugly and ineffective. I'm not worried though and think he'll adapt. He's still the best in the league.

Minimal
05-10-2015, 12:57 AM
In before LeBron goes beast mode, Cavs win the series and you all shut up.

Chi StateOfMind
05-10-2015, 01:27 AM
How about we let this series be over before we go there. I mean of course he's not the same but damn if that's a decline. The man can single handily take over whenever he wants. How about we give Jimmy Butler props. No matter how it goes, if the Bulls do win, it's cuz Love was out, JR was out two games, Kyrie was hurt, LeBron declined, Blatt was the coach. Excuses that I could care less about and Bulls fans should as well. We haven't had our squad in tact for like 3-4 years so oh well. **** happens. LeBron wouldn't make excuses and neither should we. Great series and to me whoever wins this series is winning it all.

PowerHouse
05-10-2015, 01:30 AM
One member of the big 3 is out for the season. 2nd member of the big 3 has a hurt foot (serious problem for a pg relying on quickness) resulting in his 3/13 performance. Add to this Lebron is simply not the player he was in '07. He just cant lead a group of scrubs to the Finals anymore. Its nobody's fault its just father time.

numba1CHANGsta
05-10-2015, 01:47 AM
The only thing that's declining is his hair line

nickdymez
05-10-2015, 02:12 AM
One member of the big 3 is out for the season. 2nd member of the big 3 has a hurt foot (serious problem for a pg relying on quickness) resulting in his 3/13 performance. Add to this Lebron is simply not the player he was in '07. He just cant lead a group of scrubs to the Finals anymore. Its nobody's fault its just father time.

lmfao. Already starting with the whole "Leading a group of scrubs" argument. man o man

RocketLoc80
05-10-2015, 02:29 AM
Lmao at the Bulls beating the Clippers,Grizz or Warriors gtfoh. I probably would never watch basketball again if somehow this Bulls where to win it.

nickdymez
05-10-2015, 04:54 AM
Lmao at the Bulls beating the Clippers,Grizz or Warriors gtfoh. I probably would never watch basketball again if somehow this Bulls where to win it.
This is a really good Bulls team

FraziersKnicks
05-10-2015, 06:00 AM
The usual suspects out in full force in this thread :rolleyes:

It's sad when you wish failure on someone who will never know who you are...

Anyway, Chicago's defense deserves a lot of credit. Particularly Jimmy Butler. But the greatness of LeBron is he is still massively impacting the game with his shot not falling, averaging 10.3 rebounds, 9.3 assists, 2 steals and a block a game. He's not the player he was 3 years ago but with his mileage I'm not surprised. I want to see him back in the post because that's an area where Butler will struggle. He simply doesn't have the size to deal with Bron down there.

I think it goes 7. Chicago have looked awful offensively. Gasol is gonna be playing on a weak knee and Rose has looked dreadful and passive. Noah isn't providing anything on one end of the floor. I think this series is going all the way.

ewing
05-10-2015, 09:24 AM
One member of the big 3 is out for the season. 2nd member of the big 3 has a hurt foot (serious problem for a pg relying on quickness) resulting in his 3/13 performance. Add to this Lebron is simply not the player he was in '07. He just cant lead a group of scrubs to the Finals anymore. Its nobody's fault its just father time.

you should check out the kick starter project im am starting. Its called "poor LeBron" and you can donate money to make LeBron whole again

ewing
05-10-2015, 09:34 AM
The usual suspects out in full force in this thread :rolleyes:

It's sad when you wish failure on someone who will never know who you are...

Anyway, Chicago's defense deserves a lot of credit. Particularly Jimmy Butler. But the greatness of LeBron is he is still massively impacting the game with his shot not falling, averaging 10.3 rebounds, 9.3 assists, 2 steals and a block a game. He's not the player he was 3 years ago but with his mileage I'm not surprised. I want to see him back in the post because that's an area where Butler will struggle. He simply doesn't have the size to deal with Bron down there.

I think it goes 7. Chicago have looked awful offensively. Gasol is gonna be playing on a weak knee and Rose has looked dreadful and passive. Noah isn't providing anything on one end of the floor. I think this series is going all the way.

Wow, i'm not sure if you actually watched the games.

First win you are a fan you root for and against people. Thats how how it works. I acknowledge that LeBron is a great player and I root against him in every series he plays. He is the one that puts his goofy *** on TV all the time and try to sell me his brand. He is the one that left a 60 win team and then a team that had just lost in the NBA finals. I'm not allowed to not like him? **** that. Anyway, as for basketball:

Tha Cavs have actually put Bron in the post a lot it hasn't worked very well so far. LeBron has turned in over a ton from the post. Maybe if he can get deeper position but it not like they haven't put him there. its just been ineffective.

Also you think Rose is passive? Holy ****, the guy over dribbles takes more bad shots then anyone in the playoffs. When he has it going and those shots fall they are real hard to beat but if anything Chicago would benefit from him facilitating more.

FraziersKnicks
05-10-2015, 10:23 AM
Wow, i'm not sure if you actually watched the games.

First win you are a fan you root for and against people. Thats how how it works. I acknowledge that LeBron is a great player and I root against him in every series he plays. He is the one that puts his goofy *** on TV all the time and try to sell me his brand. He is the one that left a 60 win team and then a team that had just lost in the NBA finals. I'm not allowed to not like him? **** that.

Yeah I have no problem with you disliking him, it's the people that are so quick to claim he is on the decline and a shell of his former self at every opportunity when he's still arguably the best most impactful player in the league.


Tha Cavs have actually put Bron in the post a lot it hasn't worked very well so far. LeBron has turned in over a ton from the post. Maybe if he can get deeper position but it not like they haven't put him there. its just been ineffective.

It's had mixed results. In game 2 there were multiple plays where the spacing worked very well and he was able to back down Butler and overwhelm him resulting in easy layups and wide open 3's. I agree with you in regards to the deeper post position. He was having his most success when he was getting in post up positions in transition. In game 3 he seemed to settle a bit further out and would face up, jab step a few times and shoot a contested 20 foot jump shot.


Also you think Rose is passive? Holy ****, the guy over dribbles takes more bad shots then anyone in the playoffs. When he has it going and those shots fall they are real hard to beat but if anything Chicago would benefit from him facilitating more.

We're in agreement there. Rose has been hugely passive in terms of his shot selection, not his willingness to shoot. He appears afraid to drive the ball, especially when LeBron was defending him. I saw numerous plays when he took some awful off balance jump shots and refused to drive the lane. He made a few of them which gave him the confidence to shoot more outside shots which just won't benefit the Bulls long term. They're at their best when he's driving the lane and forcing the defines to collapse. His shot is incredible flat and streaky so they should try and steer clear of him turning into a jump shooter if they want to beat the Cavs.

Bartlee23
05-10-2015, 10:46 AM
The usual suspects out in full force in this thread :rolleyes:

It's sad when you wish failure on someone who will never know who you are...

Anyway, Chicago's defense deserves a lot of credit. Particularly Jimmy Butler. But the greatness of LeBron is he is still massively impacting the game with his shot not falling, averaging 10.3 rebounds, 9.3 assists, 2 steals and a block a game. He's not the player he was 3 years ago but with his mileage I'm not surprised. I want to see him back in the post because that's an area where Butler will struggle. He simply doesn't have the size to deal with Bron down there.

I think it goes 7. Chicago have looked awful offensively. Gasol is gonna be playing on a weak knee and Rose has looked dreadful and passive. Noah isn't providing anything on one end of the floor. I think this series is going all the way.

I don't know if people are actually wishing him " failure" it's just that if you have watched Lebron over the years he is just IMO opinion not the same. Lebron was never one to put 100% into anything but he is just so good that even his worst games are better than some best games. When you get to a level that he has people have high expectations every game.

His defense has been poor for the Chicago series. Remember how he shut Rose down when he was in Miami? He has not done that this year. Also he is turning the ball over at an alarmingly high rate. I know you will say he didn't have the same teammates as Miami but he has similar pieces. They are injured but Chicago has every player injured every year but manages to be competitive.

Chicago does deserve a lot of credit. Especially Jimmy Butler, he is giving Lebron the most problems out of any defender. If you are watching the game he is right up on him every time he has the ball, he has poked the ball away numerous amounts of times creating turnovers and is making Lebron give up the ball and making someone else beat them.

No one can stop Lebron. He is too strong and when he puts his mind to it can do whatever he wants on the floor. IMO he settles way too much for jump shots and unnecessary 3's. I think he is slowing down but is still better than everyone else. I think Chicago will win in 6. I can see them winning Sunday and then finishing the series in games 6. Chicago has not looked great offensively but Cleveland is not exactly shooting lights out either. Gasol will be limited until the next series because he's really not needed in this one. That's Chicago's advantage is depth. Cleveland cannot match it. Look for guys like Gibson and Mirotic to have good games and Rose has looked anything but " dreadful and passive" that is just a silly statement.

FraziersKnicks
05-10-2015, 11:09 AM
I don't know if people are actually wishing him " failure" it's just that if you have watched Lebron over the years he is just IMO opinion not the same. Lebron was never one to put 100% into anything but he is just so good that even his worst games are better than some best games. When you get to a level that he has people have high expectations every game.

I completely agree with everything you've said here. I'm not sure how often you're on these forums but there are certainly people that are just waiting for the first sign of decline for them to jump on the bandwagon saying he's done and wish nothing more than to see him fail. Which is cool, not everyone has to be a fan of a player. It's just a bit boring when someone has a season of 25/6/7 on 49% shooting and he's "done". It's only a few posters though.


His defense has been poor for the Chicago series. Remember how he shut Rose down when he was in Miami? He has not done that this year. Also he is turning the ball over at an alarmingly high rate. I know you will say he didn't have the same teammates as Miami but he has similar pieces. They are injured but Chicago has every player injured every year but manages to be competitive.

He seems to float in and out of his defensive intensity. I've seen him really clamp down on Rose and Butler on some possessions, then just see him roaming around relatively uninterested on others. When he's been playing Rose 1-on-1 he's actually forced him into some tough jump shots that Rose has hit.

He is turning the ball over at a high rate which I think is partly to do with his decline, more iso basketball (which he got away from in Miami unless it was in the post) and a pesky Jimmy Butler poking balls away. I also attribute it a bit to the fact he's still not fully on the same page with some of the guys. Particularly the midseason acquisitions. The turnovers need to go down from LeBron for the Cavs to have a chance in this series though.



Chicago does deserve a lot of credit. Especially Jimmy Butler, he is giving Lebron the most problems out of any defender. If you are watching the game he is right up on him every time he has the ball, he has poked the ball away numerous amounts of times creating turnovers and is making Lebron give up the ball and making someone else beat them.

No one can stop Lebron. He is too strong and when he puts his mind to it can do whatever he wants on the floor. IMO he settles way too much for jump shots and unnecessary 3's. I think he is slowing down but is still better than everyone else. I think Chicago will win in 6. I can see them winning Sunday and then finishing the series in games 6. Chicago has not looked great offensively but Cleveland is not exactly shooting lights out either. Gasol will be limited until the next series because he's really not needed in this one. That's Chicago's advantage is depth. Cleveland cannot match it. Look for guys like Gibson and Mirotic to have good games and Rose has looked anything but " dreadful and passive" that is just a silly statement.

I agree on him settling. It frustrates me massively when he can get to the rim at will and collapse defense's or post up and draw double teams. In game 2 he was extremely aggressive and put the game out of reach in the 1st quarter. I expect a similar performance in game 4, which I think the Cavs take. I have the Cavs in 6 or 7, but Kyrie needs to step up a bit.

I haven't been impressed with Rose at all. He's settled for jump shots that have just happened to be falling on occasions. He's at his best when he's attacking, similar to LeBron, which is something I haven't seen from him this series as much.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-10-2015, 12:36 PM
Lmao at the Bulls beating the Clippers,Grizz or Warriors gtfoh. I probably would never watch basketball again if somehow this Bulls where to win it.

They have a better chance than the rockets.

Tony_Starks
05-10-2015, 01:05 PM
Lebron has always had the habit of settling for the jumper if you have a good defensive scheme going. Going back for years, in particular against the Celtics and Spurs. I don't see that as decline as much as he just has to be determined to not just take what the defense wants him to take.

Like I said I think he'll figure it out individually,but if Kyrie is really messed up it may not matter.

FraziersKnicks
05-10-2015, 01:27 PM
Lebron has always had the habit of settling for the jumper if you have a good defensive scheme going. Going back for years, in particular against the Celtics and Spurs. I don't see that as decline as much as he just has to be determined to not just take what the defense wants him to take.

Like I said I think he'll figure it out individually,but if Kyrie is really messed up it may not matter.

I agree. But he also managed to get his jumper to such a respectable standard that it didn't actually matter. Like game 7 against the Spurs a few years ago when his jump shot was on and he literally became the most un-guardable player possible.

http://www.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/LeBron-Game-7-Shots-GIF.gif

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-10-2015, 01:48 PM
Lebron has always had the habit of settling for the jumper if you have a good defensive scheme going. Going back for years, in particular against the Celtics and Spurs. I don't see that as decline as much as he just has to be determined to not just take what the defense wants him to take.

Like I said I think he'll figure it out individually,but if Kyrie is really messed up it may not matter.

I agree. But he also managed to get his jumper to such a respectable standard that it didn't actually matter. Like game 7 against the Spurs a few years ago when his jump shot was on and he literally became the most un-guardable player possible.

http://www.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/LeBron-Game-7-Shots-GIF.gif

Meh

Tony_Starks
05-10-2015, 01:50 PM
Lebron has always had the habit of settling for the jumper if you have a good defensive scheme going. Going back for years, in particular against the Celtics and Spurs. I don't see that as decline as much as he just has to be determined to not just take what the defense wants him to take.

Like I said I think he'll figure it out individually,but if Kyrie is really messed up it may not matter.

I agree. But he also managed to get his jumper to such a respectable standard that it didn't actually matter. Like game 7 against the Spurs a few years ago when his jump shot was on and he literally became the most un-guardable player possible.

http://www.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/LeBron-Game-7-Shots-GIF.gif

Depends on his mind set. When they dared him to shoot in game six he was tossing up bricks. It's about him not hesitating. I remember the first 2 games of that series how they were leaving him wide open and he looked scared and then later admitted he had to just have the confidence to keep shooting make or miss.

Everyone was shocked like how can he still be having confidence problems this deep in his career but if you know his game it makes sense. He's not a shooter, this isn't Reggie Miller or Kobe who can miss 9 straight and think the next 9 are going in. He's more pass first, score in the flow type player.

He's going to have to turn it up to give them a better shot though imo, given the injury situation. Like a 40+ game or two.....

FraziersKnicks
05-10-2015, 01:52 PM
Meh

Nice input.

FraziersKnicks
05-10-2015, 01:56 PM
Depends on his mind set. When they dared him to shoot in game six he was tossing up bricks. It's about him not hesitating. I remember the first 2 games of that series how they were leaving him wide open and he looked scared and then later admitted he had to just have the confidence to keep shooting make or miss.

Everyone was shocked like how can he still be having confidence problems this deep in his career but if you know his game it makes sense. He's not a shooter, this isn't Reggie Miller or Kobe who can miss 9 straight and think the next 9 are going in. He's more pass first, score in the flow type player.

He's going to have to turn it up to give them a better shot though imo, given the injury situation. Like a 40+ game or two.....

And he didn't hesitate in the biggest game of his career and it worked. That 2012-13 LeBron was the closest thing I have ever personally witnessed to the perfect basketball player. We're not gonna see that again from him, those days have gone but I think he can learn something from going back to seeing how he played in those games. No hesitation with the jump shot, less indecisiveness, more post play, less turnovers and more efficient shots.

I don't think he needs to have 40+ games to will the Cavs to victory. He needs to be more efficient and keep the ball moving. Get the shooters hot. I think the Cavs have a better chance winning if he's posting 11-12 assist games as opposed to 40 point performances.

gaughan333
05-10-2015, 02:08 PM
Yes, this is his decline. The fact that you have to question whether he is the best player in the NBA shows that. Luckily for him, he has a long way to fall

Tony_Starks
05-10-2015, 02:45 PM
Depends on his mind set. When they dared him to shoot in game six he was tossing up bricks. It's about him not hesitating. I remember the first 2 games of that series how they were leaving him wide open and he looked scared and then later admitted he had to just have the confidence to keep shooting make or miss.

Everyone was shocked like how can he still be having confidence problems this deep in his career but if you know his game it makes sense. He's not a shooter, this isn't Reggie Miller or Kobe who can miss 9 straight and think the next 9 are going in. He's more pass first, score in the flow type player.

He's going to have to turn it up to give them a better shot though imo, given the injury situation. Like a 40+ game or two.....

And he didn't hesitate in the biggest game of his career and it worked. That 2012-13 LeBron was the closest thing I have ever personally witnessed to the perfect basketball player. We're not gonna see that again from him, those days have gone but I think he can learn something from going back to seeing how he played in those games. No hesitation with the jump shot, less indecisiveness, more post play, less turnovers and more efficient shots.

I don't think he needs to have 40+ games to will the Cavs to victory. He needs to be more efficient and keep the ball moving. Get the shooters hot. I think the Cavs have a better chance winning if he's posting 11-12 assist games as opposed to 40 point performances.

We shall see. I say book it right now, he's dropping 40 today for the W. Going Dark Knight on everybody, not the hero they deserve but the hero they need!

FraziersKnicks
05-10-2015, 02:52 PM
We shall see. I say book it right now, he's dropping 40 today for the W. Going Dark Knight on everybody, not the hero they deserve but the hero they need!

I wouldn't be surprised. He does have a history of coming out very aggressively after disappointing defeats.

bucketss
05-10-2015, 02:52 PM
Yes, this is his decline. The fact that you have to question whether he is the best player in the NBA shows that. Luckily for him, he has a long way to fall

do people really question it? the only guys i can think of is curry and harden, and tbh those guys are not on brons level.

xbrackattackx
05-10-2015, 04:34 PM
do people really question it? the only guys i can think of is curry and harden, and tbh those guys are not on brons level.

No healthy Durant? I think Lebron is better but Durant isn't that far behind. Again when healthy. Or did you leave him out cause he was injured most the season? CP3 is also on that tier with curry and harden and you could even argue for Davis. Just asking not being a dick.

Tony_Starks
05-10-2015, 06:47 PM
We shall see. I say book it right now, he's dropping 40 today for the W. Going Dark Knight on everybody, not the hero they deserve but the hero they need!

I wouldn't be surprised. He does have a history of coming out very aggressively after disappointing defeats.

Put up 30 shots. He knew the deal. Sometimes you gotta go Iverson for that W....

FlashBolt
05-10-2015, 09:37 PM
C'mon, he clearly is on the decline. He hasn't been the same and though I expect him to begin playing smarter with how his body has been changing, there is little reason to be surprised. LeBron is the oldest 30 year old in NBA. The amount of mileage in his body puts him far above any other player in terms of how much he has endured. This guy is the most durable player in NBA history. You can say Malone but Malone was never the player James was on a daily basis. Truly a special player. I still expect him to be the best player until my boy KD comes back but we're watching greatness with him just like with Kobe. Gotta give him that respect.

Sportfan
05-11-2015, 01:36 AM
Never change PSD. Gotta love these reactionary threads to one game

IBleedPurple
05-11-2015, 05:40 AM
Every player has his ups and downs. No need to go back and forth like his hairline.

kozelkid
05-11-2015, 07:07 AM
Lmao at the Bulls beating the Clippers,Grizz or Warriors gtfoh. I probably would never watch basketball again if somehow this Bulls where to win it.
Based on your posts, I had a hard time believing you actually watch basketball.

ewing
05-11-2015, 08:01 AM
And he didn't hesitate in the biggest game of his career and it worked. That 2012-13 LeBron was the closest thing I have ever personally witnessed to the perfect basketball player. We're not gonna see that again from him, those days have gone but I think he can learn something from going back to seeing how he played in those games. No hesitation with the jump shot, less indecisiveness, more post play, less turnovers and more efficient shots.

I don't think he needs to have 40+ games to will the Cavs to victory. He needs to be more efficient and keep the ball moving. Get the shooters hot. I think the Cavs have a better chance winning if he's posting 11-12 assist games as opposed to 40 point performances.

if he got 40 something they would only need another 40 to outscore the Bulls

Yanks All Day
05-11-2015, 02:36 PM
Wait, so he breezed through the second half of the NBA season, led his team to the best record in the league from January to the finish, then helped his team handily sweep the Celtics in the first round. But he comes up against one of the best defenders in the league, who makes him work on defense as well, happens to be about his size, and also play for arguably the best defensive team in the NBA, and because of his struggles in 3/4 games LeBron is in decline?

He's struggling against a great defense while his 2nd best player (Kyrie) is hobbled, 3rd beast (Love) is out, and 4th best (Smith) was suspended for the first 2 games. He's playing almost the entire game every night. The Bulls are a great team, who many picked to go to the Finals over Cleveland when the season started. Jimmy Butler is one of the best 2-way players in the NBA and defends LeBron as well as anyone in the NBA, next to Kawhi Leonard.

Instead of saying he's declining, maybe credit should go to Chicago for making him work so hard. 3 subpar games out of 4 in a series don't negate his dominance from the point when he returned from injury. Chicago is really that good defensively.

KnicksorBust
05-11-2015, 02:39 PM
Wait, so he breezed through the second half of the NBA season, led his team to the best record in the league from January to the finish, then helped his team handily sweep the Celtics in the first round. But he comes up against one of the best defenders in the league, who makes him work on defense as well, happens to be about his size, and also play for arguably the best defensive team in the NBA, and because of his struggles in 3/4 games LeBron is in decline?

He's struggling against a great defense while his 2nd best player (Kyrie) is hobbled, 3rd beast (Love) is out, and 4th best (Smith) was suspended for the first 2 games. He's playing almost the entire game every night. The Bulls are a great team, who many picked to go to the Finals over Cleveland when the season started. Jimmy Butler is one of the best 2-way players in the NBA and defends LeBron as well as anyone in the NBA, next to Kawhi Leonard.

Instead of saying he's declining, maybe credit should go to Chicago for making him work so hard. 3 subpar games out of 4 in a series don't negate his dominance from the point when he returned from injury. Chicago is really that good defensively.

:clap: for context

Chronz
05-11-2015, 02:44 PM
Put up 30 shots. He knew the deal. Sometimes you gotta go Iverson for that W....

Sure, if you've declined. Bron hates how inefficient hes been but he knows the W is all that matters to him. Would be nice to get the W AND be more productive but I dont think he has that in him anymore.

KnicksorBust
05-11-2015, 02:47 PM
Sure, if you've declined. Bron hates how inefficient hes been but he knows the W is all that matters to him. Would be nice to get the W AND be more productive but I dont think he has that in him anymore.

Until game 5

Chronz
05-11-2015, 02:49 PM
Wait, so he breezed through the second half of the NBA season, led his team to the best record in the league from January to the finish, then helped his team handily sweep the Celtics in the first round. But he comes up against one of the best defenders in the league, who makes him work on defense as well, happens to be about his size, and also play for arguably the best defensive team in the NBA, and because of his struggles in 3/4 games LeBron is in decline?

He's struggling against a great defense while his 2nd best player (Kyrie) is hobbled, 3rd beast (Love) is out, and 4th best (Smith) was suspended for the first 2 games. He's playing almost the entire game every night. The Bulls are a great team, who many picked to go to the Finals over Cleveland when the season started. Jimmy Butler is one of the best 2-way players in the NBA and defends LeBron as well as anyone in the NBA, next to Kawhi Leonard.

Instead of saying he's declining, maybe credit should go to Chicago for making him work so hard. 3 subpar games out of 4 in a series don't negate his dominance from the point when he returned from injury. Chicago is really that good defensively.
They get credit for making him work and bringing him down a peg from his regular season performance. And the loss of important pieces are bound to influence him but they dont get credit for his decline All-Year and his very real struggles to replicate prior season performances. Love JUST got injured and its not like he faced Chicago every night for the 82 game season. Its a testament to how great Bron is that he can accomplish all that and still look like hes declined but he himself will tell you how much he hates not being able to buy a jumper.

FlashBolt
05-11-2015, 06:28 PM
Wait, so he breezed through the second half of the NBA season, led his team to the best record in the league from January to the finish, then helped his team handily sweep the Celtics in the first round. But he comes up against one of the best defenders in the league, who makes him work on defense as well, happens to be about his size, and also play for arguably the best defensive team in the NBA, and because of his struggles in 3/4 games LeBron is in decline?

He's struggling against a great defense while his 2nd best player (Kyrie) is hobbled, 3rd beast (Love) is out, and 4th best (Smith) was suspended for the first 2 games. He's playing almost the entire game every night. The Bulls are a great team, who many picked to go to the Finals over Cleveland when the season started. Jimmy Butler is one of the best 2-way players in the NBA and defends LeBron as well as anyone in the NBA, next to Kawhi Leonard.

Instead of saying he's declining, maybe credit should go to Chicago for making him work so hard. 3 subpar games out of 4 in a series don't negate his dominance from the point when he returned from injury. Chicago is really that good defensively.

You can certainly argue that and it'd be plausible but he did lose a step. He's not as explosive and physically, doesn't seem as imposing. He's still the best player but Miami's Bron was just on another level of efficiency. I hate how the playoffs have gone; especially for the Cavs. They lost their 2nd/3rd best player, lost Varejao, and will probably have an unhealthy Shump for the rest of this Bulls series. If Love was at least healthy and didn't get his arm snapped by Olynyk's dirty play, I have no doubt we'd be seeing a different James.

xxplayerxx23
05-11-2015, 06:49 PM
If Lebron gets the jumper going he is the most unguardable player in the NBA. He is on a little decline

Minimal
05-11-2015, 06:58 PM
If we don't look at his poor shooting and turnovers in this series. LeBron still averages 27/10/8/2/1.4 in the playoffs.

KnicksorBust
05-12-2015, 09:17 PM
Sure, if you've declined. Bron hates how inefficient hes been but he knows the W is all that matters to him. Would be nice to get the W AND be more productive but I dont think he has that in him anymore.

Until game 5

Boom

FraziersKnicks
05-12-2015, 09:45 PM
Boom

39/12/6/4/3, zero turnovers, 14/24 FG.

#decline

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-12-2015, 09:59 PM
Boom

39/12/6/4/3, zero turnovers, 14/24 FG.

#decline
East*

Lebron will be 2-4 in the finals in a month. 1-5 if not for Ray

Yanks All Day
05-12-2015, 10:06 PM
East*

Lebron will be 2-4 in the finals in a month. 1-5 if not for Ray

Memphis didn't come close to beating Cleveland this year.
Cavs were 2-0 vs Clippers.
1-1 vs Golden State (1 loss without LeBron)
0-2 vs Houston

Game results aside, Houston was clearly the worst matchup for Cleveland when they played all year long. They match up very well against the other 3, especially Golden State and Memphis. If Cleveland makes the Finals, they have a good chance to win it all.

And LeBron still isn't noticeably declining. His bad games come from exhaustion, not decreasing skills.

InRoseWeTrust
05-12-2015, 10:09 PM
Some decline :rolleyes:

lincecum=future
05-12-2015, 10:13 PM
Regular season games are meaningless. Cavs are way more banged up now

FraziersKnicks
05-12-2015, 10:16 PM
East*

Lebron will be 2-4 in the finals in a month. 1-5 if not for Ray

U mad?

bucketss
05-12-2015, 10:26 PM
East*

Lebron will be 2-4 in the finals in a month. 1-5 if not for Ray

6 finals appearances. loses in the finals with his pg playing injured, and his star big man out. against a far superior team talent wise. but if he somehow wins some people will go in hiding lol.

LAKERS4LIFE!!
05-12-2015, 11:24 PM
Lebron is on the decline, just because he's declining doesn't mean he can't have amazing games. He's still a beast, just with a slight decline.

As long as James stops shooting jumpers, no team in the East should be able to stop the Cavs from going to the Finals.

koreancabbage
05-12-2015, 11:36 PM
Lebron is on the decline, just because he's declining doesn't mean he can't have amazing games. He's still a beast, just with a slight decline.

As long as James stops shooting jumpers, no team in the East should be able to stop the Cavs from going to the Finals.

thank you. a great fan of the game and not clouded by hate. why can't more Laker fans be like you ? Yes we've seen what having great talent for so many years can do to you mental awareness of great talent elsewhere in the league not named Los Angeles (i'm talking to the Kobe/Laker homers up there ^, not you) Can't imagine you guys were like when Kobe was actually balling - you guys too were probably the most ignorants ***** like you are today.

mightybosstone
05-13-2015, 12:57 AM
East*

Lebron will be 2-4 in the finals in a month. 1-5 if not for Ray

I was thinking about it the other day, and I've come to the conclusion that in the minds of some PSD posters, Lebron's legacy would be better served by him losing in this series than him getting this team to the Finals and losing. That's some truly ****ed up logic, but it's true. Lebron haters care more about his Finals record than they do his overall postseason resume. I don't see other posters going around bringing up how many times Kobe didn't will the Lakers to the Finals, and yet Lebron is practically penalized for the fact that he's getting to the finals in the first place.

It just blows my mind that there are idiots out there who actually think this way...

ewing
05-13-2015, 01:53 AM
I was thinking about it the other day, and I've come to the conclusion that in the minds of some PSD posters, Lebron's legacy would be better served by him losing in this series than him getting this team to the Finals and losing. That's some truly ****ed up logic, but it's true. Lebron haters care more about his Finals record than they do his overall postseason resume. I don't see other posters going around bringing up how many times Kobe didn't will the Lakers to the Finals, and yet Lebron is practically penalized for the fact that he's getting to the finals in the first place.

It just blows my mind that there are idiots out there who actually think this way...


granted but a lot of the reason was b/c LeBron was a big time favorite in most of his EC playoffs and and he wasn't a big time dog in the finals expect with the Cavs once. i actually think LeBron has played a good series against the Bulls he just hasn't hit a lot jump shots and doesn't have weapons. It damn hard to spoon feed guys when you don't have your shot going. I think he has made good decisions most of the time- he was just forced into some TOs b/c he was didn't have it going and had to create.

IKnowHoops
05-13-2015, 02:38 AM
Just saw a stat about how many times a player has lead his team in points, rebs, and assists in the playoffs.

1. Lebron 33
2. Bird 13
3. Duncan 9

WTF...Thats all you need to know about his dominance. He's not Jordan, But he is still a one of a kind player. There has never been anyone like this dude.

naps
05-13-2015, 03:40 AM
Greatest player since Jordan. There will never be another LeBron who embodies every aspect of the game of basketball so precisely.

slashsnake
05-13-2015, 03:42 AM
granted but a lot of the reason was b/c LeBron was a big time favorite in most of his EC playoffs and and he wasn't a big time dog in the finals expect with the Cavs once. i actually think LeBron has played a good series against the Bulls he just hasn't hit a lot jump shots and doesn't have weapons. It damn hard to spoon feed guys when you don't have your shot going. I think he has made good decisions most of the time- he was just forced into some TOs b/c he was didn't have it going and had to create.

It's been a tough series sure, and his outside shot has been really off for a lot of it. Still look at the numbers...

As for his decline. Who else would you put on a team with Kyrie, Delladova, Shumpert, Mozgov, JR Smith, and Tristan Thompson that you would figure would have the bulls a game from elimination in the playoffs?

Obvious shooting slump, but I don't think anyone would agree that an outside shot shooting slump is a sign of old age decline. That's usually the one thing that stays...

But now in this series, with what right now is a lottery team around him, he has:

28.4 PPG, 8.4 APG, 11.4 RPG, 2 steals, 1.6 blocks per game.

That is a stuffed stat line.

Which if you are curious... Puts him with Oscar (didn't have steals and blocks then though, so nobody has ever had a better full stat line than that over a full post-season). So if this is his declining playoff series...

In NBA history in the playoffs lets see who's done a little part of that stat line over a playoffs as he has in his possibly declining series here.

28.4 PPG and 11.4 RPG has been done by 5 players in the last 45 years. (Karl Malone, Olajuwon, Shaq, McAdoo, Kareem).

28.4 PPG and 8.4 APG have been done by 3 players in the league ever. ( Oscar, Iverson, Jordan).

28.4 with 2 steals and 1.6 blocks done by 2 players in the league (Olajuwon, Jordan).

8.4 assists and 11.4 boards only done by Wilt and Oscar ever.

So if he played at this pace through the playoffs, sure he would be down on his outside shooting, but putting together arguably the greatest all around playoffs by an NBA player ever (I'd argue Oscar in his first couple NBA playoff runs, but I'd argue today's game is more talented too).

That's just sick. Yeah his true shooting% is down. It's what? 8 or 9 games? How often do we look at a two week run in the NBA and say "there you have it, he's on his way down"??? Seems a bit too early to even think that here right?

FraziersKnicks
05-13-2015, 07:20 AM
LeBron's performance last night was the first 38/12/6/3/3 no turnover game in playoff history.

According to gamescore it was also the best performance of these playoffs by a long way with a score of 38.1 (next is Harden's 42/5/9 game with a gamescore of 33.4)

xbrackattackx
05-13-2015, 08:23 AM
you should check out the kick starter project im am starting. Its called "poor LeBron" and you can donate money to make LeBron whole again

So it's money for his Roids and HGH? Lol. Cause that's all he needs to get back ripped and abuse the post.

xbrackattackx
05-13-2015, 08:33 AM
Whatever. If this is Brons decline, I'll still take him any day of the week. He can have bad games, all players do. If he always played with the aggression after having a bad lost/game he would avg this. Dude is still a beast. If I could pick three people to build a team around its Curry,Bron and Davis.

Captain Moroni
05-13-2015, 09:23 AM
Hate clouds truth. Lebon is still the best in the NBA. period. why the constant obsession with raising and knocking down players like they are Gods and fallen Gods is amusing too me. if Lebron could travel in time, and replace Jordan he wins those same 6 titles. If he did the same in LA replacing Kobe he wins the same.
What he is doing right now by himself against the Bulls is awesome.

Hawkeye15
05-13-2015, 12:41 PM
If its a decline its very small. Butler is a lock down defender and LeBron is overcompensating by having to do everything for this Cleveland offense right now.

Irving has his moments as well, but you can tell his leg is bugging him a little here and there. But then again, is there anyone 100% by game 90?

KnicksorBust
05-13-2015, 12:43 PM
Lebron is on the decline, just because he's declining doesn't mean he can't have amazing games. He's still a beast, just with a slight decline.

As long as James stops shooting jumpers, no team in the East should be able to stop the Cavs from going to the Finals.

If the playoffs arrive and he's still the best player in the world, then it's wasted breath discussing a decline.


Hate clouds truth. Lebon is still the best in the NBA. period. why the constant obsession with raising and knocking down players like they are Gods and fallen Gods is amusing too me. if Lebron could travel in time, and replace Jordan he wins those same 6 titles. If he did the same in LA replacing Kobe he wins the same.
What he is doing right now by himself against the Bulls is awesome.

If he goes to LAL and replaces Kobe then Shaq doesn't leave and they have a real chance @ passing MJ and winning 7 titles.

KnicksorBust
05-13-2015, 12:44 PM
Lebron is on the decline, just because he's declining doesn't mean he can't have amazing games. He's still a beast, just with a slight decline.

As long as James stops shooting jumpers, no team in the East should be able to stop the Cavs from going to the Finals.


Irving has his moments as well, but you can tell his leg is bugging him a little here and there. But then again, is there anyone 100% by game 90?

The Hawks should be salivating. There will never be a better chance to win the East.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-13-2015, 01:08 PM
East*

Lebron will be 2-4 in the finals in a month. 1-5 if not for Ray

I was thinking about it the other day, and I've come to the conclusion that in the minds of some PSD posters, Lebron's legacy would be better served by him losing in this series than him getting this team to the Finals and losing. That's some truly ****ed up logic, but it's true. Lebron haters care more about his Finals record than they do his overall postseason resume. I don't see other posters going around bringing up how many times Kobe didn't will the Lakers to the Finals, and yet Lebron is practically penalized for the fact that he's getting to the finals in the first place.

It just blows my mind that there are idiots out there who actually think this way...


His postseason runs are the most watered down for a top 15 player that's why. Do me a favor and go look up all the teams Lebron has taken down from the east In the past 10 years. Most of them are pathetic and wouldn't even be a 10th seed in the west, some are average, and very few are actually very good. He gets zero credit from me for smashing up on lesser competition. Could you imagine what Duncan or Kobe's postseason stats and dominance would look like if they played in the weakest division in NBA history their whole career. There's a reason why Lebron has a losing record vs finals teams. Let that marinate

Chronz
05-13-2015, 01:17 PM
Could you imagine what Duncan or Kobe's postseason stats and dominance would look like if they played in the weakest division in NBA history their whole career.

Plz due tel, wat wood day look lyke?

LMFAO you guys and your faux analysis.

Could you imagine how many Rings Bron would have had he had the support from a Western squad. Particularly like Kobe, who had a contending team since day 1 regardless of how good he was. Hell, Kobe could win a Finals game where he barely plays.

5ass
05-13-2015, 01:27 PM
Can we just ban dellusionist again?
Agreed, good post, weak east, bron sucks. Here i just summed all his 5,000 pts in a few words.

mngopher35
05-13-2015, 01:41 PM
His postseason runs are the most watered down for a top 15 player that's why. Do me a favor and go look up all the teams Lebron has taken down from the east In the past 10 years. Most of them are pathetic and wouldn't even be a 10th seed in the west, some are average, and very few are actually very good. He gets zero credit from me for smashing up on lesser competition. Could you imagine what Duncan or Kobe's postseason stats and dominance would look like if they played in the weakest division in NBA history their whole career. There's a reason why Lebron has a losing record vs finals teams. Let that marinate

Have you ever put any actual thought or effort into your posts before? Look into the splits of star players (Lebron, Duncan, Kobe, Wade etc.) over these years. The east isn't some conference where you just rack up better stats, if anything it is harder to do than the west with their general style of play. On top of that if you look at series over the years you will see that plenty of times it is the more challenging teams that Lebron excels against, not the easy ones in the first round. This is all pretty common knowledge or easy to look up but you just ignore the obvious and spew your garbage.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-13-2015, 02:15 PM
His postseason runs are the most watered down for a top 15 player that's why. Do me a favor and go look up all the teams Lebron has taken down from the east In the past 10 years. Most of them are pathetic and wouldn't even be a 10th seed in the west, some are average, and very few are actually very good. He gets zero credit from me for smashing up on lesser competition. Could you imagine what Duncan or Kobe's postseason stats and dominance would look like if they played in the weakest division in NBA history their whole career. There's a reason why Lebron has a losing record vs finals teams. Let that marinate

Have you ever put any actual thought or effort into your posts before? Look into the splits of star players (Lebron, Duncan, Kobe, Wade etc.) over these years. The east isn't some conference where you just rack up better stats, if anything it is harder to do than the west with their general style of play. On top of that if you look at series over the years you will see that plenty of times it is the more challenging teams that Lebron excels against, not the easy ones in the first round. This is all pretty common knowledge or easy to look up but you just ignore the obvious and spew your garbage.

My god are you guys that blind? Both Duncan and Kobe have faced 10 teams that are better than anything Lebron has faced from the east over the years. He has gotten a free pass to the finals for 5 straight years now. His playoffs stats from the east are great but there's a huge reason why his stats go down in the finals. Let's not forget that's he's 2-3 in finals series with a record of 11-16. If that doesn't tell you enough then you can continue to live in lala land.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-13-2015, 02:15 PM
Can we just ban dellusionist again?
Agreed, good post, weak east, bron sucks. Here i just summed all his 5,000 pts in a few words.ban me for what? Not agreeing with everything Lebron fans say? Grow up

Bostonjorge
05-13-2015, 02:16 PM
Have you ever put any actual thought or effort into your posts before? Look into the splits of star players (Lebron, Duncan, Kobe, Wade etc.) over these years. The east isn't some conference where you just rack up better stats, if anything it is harder to do than the west with their general style of play. On top of that if you look at series over the years you will see that plenty of times it is the more challenging teams that Lebron excels against, not the easy ones in the first round. This is all pretty common knowledge or easy to look up but you just ignore the obvious and spew your garbage.

Biggest reach since dhalsim.

Sactown
05-13-2015, 02:23 PM
My god are you guys that blind? Both Duncan and Kobe have faced 10 teams that are better than anything Lebron has faced from the east over the years. He has gotten a free pass to the finals for 5 straight years now. His playoffs stats from the east are great but there's a huge reason why his stats go down in the finals. Let's not forget that's he's 2-3 in finals series with a record of 11-16. If that doesn't tell you enough then you can continue to live in lala land.

You need to stop saying look at the finals record!!! When he was in his early twenties he took a team to the finals to play against the spurs.. a team that has been dominate for an entire decade.. he didn't have nearly enough help or experience to beat the greatest coach and PF of all time at 23.... He got swept..

The Dallas series is entirely on Him
he won the next two years with great play and great contributions from Teammates just like every star has receieved (Horry 2002, MWP going nuts in game 7 of finals, Shaq continual dominance , Fish making big shots, Pau great play)

Then he lost to a better team again and played well

No shame in this ... I'd rather make the finals then be eliminated early or not make the playoffs all together ... Even MJ struggled without Pippen and if he would of made the finals before pippen they would of lost...

Yanks All Day
05-13-2015, 02:23 PM
Whether it's the Celtic, Pistons, Pacers, Bulls, or this year's Hawks, every single year, there's been a team that people have claimed were too deep and too talented for a LeBron James team.

And then he beats them.

And then all of a sudden the East is trash and LeBron has a cake walk to the Finals.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-13-2015, 02:32 PM
My god are you guys that blind? Both Duncan and Kobe have faced 10 teams that are better than anything Lebron has faced from the east over the years. He has gotten a free pass to the finals for 5 straight years now. His playoffs stats from the east are great but there's a huge reason why his stats go down in the finals. Let's not forget that's he's 2-3 in finals series with a record of 11-16. If that doesn't tell you enough then you can continue to live in lala land.

You need to stop saying look at the finals record!!! When he was in his early twenties he took a team to the finals to play against the spurs.. a team that has been dominate for an entire decade.. he didn't have nearly enough help or experience to beat the greatest coach and PF of all time at 23.... He got swept..

The Dallas series is entirely on Him
he won the next two years with great play and great contributions from Teammates just like every star has receieved (Horry 2002, MWP going nuts in game 7 of finals, Shaq continual dominance , Fish making big shots, Pau great play)

Then he lost to a better team again and played well

No shame in this ... I'd rather make the finals then be eliminated early or not make the playoffs all together ... Even MJ struggled without Pippen and if he would of made the finals before pippen they would of lost...


You can slice it any way you'd like, but an 11-16 finals record is utter garbage.

Let's not forget that Lebron got taken out of the playoffs by both the magic and celtics back to back years when he and the Cavs were favorites to win the ship.

Kobe and co repeated these years if you don't remember.

Minimal
05-13-2015, 02:33 PM
Whether it's the Celtic, Pistons, Pacers, Bulls, or this year's Hawks, every single year, there's been a team that people have claimed were too deep and too talented for a LeBron James team.

And then he beats them.

And then all of a sudden the East is trash and LeBron has a cake walk to the Finals.
Yeah and funny thing is 75% of PSD users picked Bulls to win at the start of the series.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-13-2015, 02:34 PM
Whether it's the Celtic, Pistons, Pacers, Bulls, or this year's Hawks, every single year, there's been a team that people have claimed were too deep and too talented for a LeBron James team.

And then he beats them.

And then all of a sudden the East is trash and LeBron has a cake walk to the Finals.

Lol get real. There might have been a few people saying that, but every year Lebron was on the heat he was the favorite and everyone knew it.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-13-2015, 02:35 PM
Whether it's the Celtic, Pistons, Pacers, Bulls, or this year's Hawks, every single year, there's been a team that people have claimed were too deep and too talented for a LeBron James team.

And then he beats them.

And then all of a sudden the East is trash and LeBron has a cake walk to the Finals.
Yeah and funny thing is 75% of PSD users picked Bulls to win at the start of the series.

With pau I think they would have.

ThaDubs
05-13-2015, 02:39 PM
LeBron's two best seasons were metrically better than any Jordan ever had...

FraziersKnicks
05-13-2015, 02:53 PM
My god are you guys that blind? Both Duncan and Kobe have faced 10 teams that are better than anything Lebron has faced from the east over the years. He has gotten a free pass to the finals for 5 straight years now. His playoffs stats from the east are great but there's a huge reason why his stats go down in the finals. Let's not forget that's he's 2-3 in finals series with a record of 11-16. If that doesn't tell you enough then you can continue to live in lala land.

So how come Kobe's numbers aren't as good as LeBron's in the Finals? When Kobe is playing the 'weak' east and LeBron is playing the 'powerhouse' west...

LeBron (27 games): 24.3 PPG, 8.8 RPG, 6.4 APG, 1.8 SPG, 0.6 BPG, 3.8 TOPG, .463/.336/.761
Kobe (37 games): 25.3 PPG, 5.7 RPG, 5.0 APG, 1.7 SPG, 0.8 BPG, 3.4 TOPG, .412/.314/.848

koreancabbage
05-13-2015, 03:01 PM
So how come Kobe's numbers aren't as good as LeBron's in the Finals? When Kobe is playing the 'weak' east and LeBron is playing the 'powerhouse' west...

LeBron (27 games): 24.3 PPG, 8.8 RPG, 6.4 APG, 1.8 SPG, 0.6 BPG, 3.8 TOPG, .463/.336/.761
Kobe (37 games): 25.3 PPG, 5.7 RPG, 5.0 APG, 1.7 SPG, 0.8 BPG, 3.4 TOPG, .412/.314/.848

its because Kobe isn't as important to his team than Lebron is. must be that great supporting cast Kobe had.

mngopher35
05-13-2015, 03:06 PM
My god are you guys that blind? Both Duncan and Kobe have faced 10 teams that are better than anything Lebron has faced from the east over the years. He has gotten a free pass to the finals for 5 straight years now. His playoffs stats from the east are great but there's a huge reason why his stats go down in the finals. Let's not forget that's he's 2-3 in finals series with a record of 11-16. If that doesn't tell you enough then you can continue to live in lala land.

I am not arguing that the East has had better teams than the West, once again I ask you to please at least try here.

His finals stats are bad because the first time he went he was young and the spurs put a wall around him, he had no real 2nd option to help. Then in 2011 he deferred way too much and had one of the lowest usage% he probably has ever had in the playoffs. With a small sample size these will bring down his averages a lot. With this logic I could say the east is harder because Kobe's finals statistics drop off compared to playing the west.

Once again I am not talking about his teams performance or claiming the east is better than the west. I am saying that individually players have had as good (sometimes better) stats generally against the west as they do against the east (again look this up it isn't hard).

IKnowHoops
05-13-2015, 03:07 PM
Lebron has declined into the best player in the league

mngopher35
05-13-2015, 03:09 PM
Biggest reach since dhalsim.

What great insight, you are almost putting in as much effort as illusionist. If you truly believe this please point out where what I said is such a major reach.

Jamiecballer
05-13-2015, 03:13 PM
My god are you guys that blind? Both Duncan and Kobe have faced 10 teams that are better than anything Lebron has faced from the east over the years. He has gotten a free pass to the finals for 5 straight years now. His playoffs stats from the east are great but there's a huge reason why his stats go down in the finals. Let's not forget that's he's 2-3 in finals series with a record of 11-16. If that doesn't tell you enough then you can continue to live in lala land.

you look like such a moron. every time someone makes intelligent points you just ignore it and go on your way - case in point ^^

Bostonjorge
05-13-2015, 03:37 PM
I am not arguing that the East has had better teams than the West, once again I ask you to please at least try here.

His finals stats are bad because the first time he went he was young and the spurs put a wall around him, he had no real 2nd option to help. Then in 2011 he deferred way too much and had one of the lowest usage% he probably has ever had in the playoffs. With a small sample size these will bring down his averages a lot. With this logic I could say the east is harder because Kobe's finals statistics drop off compared to playing the west.

Once again I am not talking about his teams performance or claiming the east is better than the west. I am saying that individually players have had as good (sometimes better) stats generally against the west as they do against the east (again look this up it isn't hard).

Shaqs numbers go drastically up in his 4 final appearances. His finals series are his 4 best series.

mngopher35
05-13-2015, 03:49 PM
Shaqs numbers go drastically up in his 4 final appearances. His finals series are his 4 best series.

So what we just go back and forth on this all day naming individual players? We are looking at a few series against certain match ups and drawing broad conclusions using this method you guys chose. In reality we can see how these players did their entire career vs. each conference. Generally speaking players do about the same statistically vs. each conference (Kobe and Duncan who he mentioned actually do better vs. the west than the east).

Once again you include basically 0 insight so can you please show me where my initial post was a reach?

sixers247
05-13-2015, 03:52 PM
Illusionist and NYSpirit are among the worst posters on this site.

:clap::dance::clap::dance::clap::dance::clap::danc e::clap::dance::clap::dance::clap::dance::clap::da nce:

Tony_Starks
05-13-2015, 04:15 PM
Well I for one said that with the injury situation I wanted Lebron to do what great superstars do with no excuses and he's doing just that. No complaints here, this is what I expect from my all time greats.

I give props where props are due, conversely if he had been choking I wouldn't have given him the "his team is hurt, he has to unfairly do everything" pass either. That's objective IMO....

ThaDubs
05-13-2015, 04:17 PM
Cavs with LeBron: 61-21
Cavs after LeBron leaves: 19-63
Heat before LeBron: 47-35
Heat with LeBron: 66-16
Heat after LeBron leaves: 37-45
Cavs before LeBron comes back: 33-49
Cavs with LeBron back: 53-29

Tony_Starks
05-13-2015, 04:32 PM
Cavs with LeBron: 61-21
Cavs after LeBron leaves: 19-63
Heat before LeBron: 47-35
Heat with LeBron: 66-16
Heat after LeBron leaves: 37-45
Cavs before LeBron comes back: 33-49
Cavs with LeBron back: 53-29

Those numbers are nice but don't tell the entire story whatsoever. Injuries, loss of players, different coaches, etc.....

But anyways, why reach? Lebron is having a helluva series NOW theres no need for skewed retro numbers to validate his greatness.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-13-2015, 04:39 PM
My god are you guys that blind? Both Duncan and Kobe have faced 10 teams that are better than anything Lebron has faced from the east over the years. He has gotten a free pass to the finals for 5 straight years now. His playoffs stats from the east are great but there's a huge reason why his stats go down in the finals. Let's not forget that's he's 2-3 in finals series with a record of 11-16. If that doesn't tell you enough then you can continue to live in lala land.

So how come Kobe's numbers aren't as good as LeBron's in the Finals? When Kobe is playing the 'weak' east and LeBron is playing the 'powerhouse' west...

LeBron (27 games): 24.3 PPG, 8.8 RPG, 6.4 APG, 1.8 SPG, 0.6 BPG, 3.8 TOPG, .463/.336/.761
Kobe (37 games): 25.3 PPG, 5.7 RPG, 5.0 APG, 1.7 SPG, 0.8 BPG, 3.4 TOPG, .412/.314/.848

Well Kobe does spend most of his energy battling it out with 3 west teams before getting to the finals, he also has amazing stats in the west finals, which a lot of the time is the real finals.he also knows that he doesn't have to play as well in the finals because to competition is not as stiff. He made a big mistake having that mentality in the 04 finals, and the celtics were just too much for one man in 2007. Let's not forget Kobe has played against the west his whole career and has faced 5 times the completion Lebron has to get to the finals. He's also 5-2 and Lebron is 2-3.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-13-2015, 04:44 PM
Cavs with LeBron: 61-21
Cavs after LeBron leaves: 19-63
Heat before LeBron: 47-35
Heat with LeBron: 66-16
Heat after LeBron leaves: 37-45
Cavs before LeBron comes back: 33-49
Cavs with LeBron back: 53-29

That's the most pointless stat ever.

FraziersKnicks
05-13-2015, 04:47 PM
Well Kobe does spend most of his energy battling it out with 3 west teams before getting to the finals, he also has amazing stats in the west finals, which a lot of the time is the real finals.he also knows that he doesn't have to play as well in the finals because to competition is not as stiff. He made a big mistake having that mentality in the 04 finals, and the celtics were just too much for one man in 2007. Let's not forget Kobe has played against the west his whole career and has faced 5 times the completion Lebron has to get to the finals. He's also 5-2 and Lebron is 2-3.

I just cannot come back to that.

:worthy::worthy::worthy:

You are easily the most clueless poster on this site and that's saying something.

jerellh528
05-13-2015, 04:55 PM
Cavs with LeBron: 61-21
Cavs after LeBron leaves: 19-63
Heat before LeBron: 47-35
Heat with LeBron: 66-16
Heat after LeBron leaves: 37-45
Cavs before LeBron comes back: 33-49
Cavs with LeBron back: 53-29

Championships don't matter because it's a team game, unless you're talking about Lebron, then it's him leading garbage to the finals by himself.

Hawkeye15
05-13-2015, 04:58 PM
Championships don't matter because it's a team game, unless you're talking about Lebron, then it's him leading garbage to the finals by himself.

dude, you just contradicted every homer Kobe fan in the universe. You know that right?

I thought you retired from this debate haha

jerellh528
05-13-2015, 05:01 PM
dude, you just contradicted every homer Kobe fan in the universe. You know that right?

I thought you retired from this debate haha

true, thanks for reminding me. I'll show myself out lol.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-13-2015, 05:01 PM
Championships don't matter because it's a team game, unless you're talking about Lebron, then it's him leading garbage to the finals by himself.

dude, you just contradicted every homer Kobe fan in the universe. You know that right?

I thought you retired from this debate haha

He's right tho. You guys say that all the time.

Hawkeye15
05-13-2015, 05:08 PM
true, thanks for reminding me. I'll show myself out lol.

I will go with you, lets get a beer

jerellh528
05-13-2015, 05:10 PM
I will go with you, lets get a beer

:cheers:

Bostonjorge
05-13-2015, 05:22 PM
I just cannot come back to that.

:worthy::worthy::worthy:

You are easily the most clueless poster on this site and that's saying something.

Nope that's your title. Your so clueless your truly believe cavs are the underdog and cavs winning is upset.

KnicksorBust
05-13-2015, 05:36 PM
true, thanks for reminding me. I'll show myself out lol.

I will go with you, lets get a beer

Cracked one in honor of this post.

FlashBolt
05-13-2015, 05:54 PM
Nope that's your title. Your so clueless your truly believe cavs are the underdog and cavs winning is upset.

With Love out and Irving being injured, how are the Cavs not an underdog at this point? Look at everyone else. You're telling me the Cavs are favorites under the current conditions? More like you guys just want to blame James when they inevitably lose in the Finals.

Hawkeye15
05-13-2015, 05:55 PM
With Love out and Irving being injured, how are the Cavs not an underdog at this point? Look at everyone else. You're telling me the Cavs are favorites under the current conditions? More like you guys just want to blame James when they inevitably lose in the Finals.

meh Gasol is out though. It's a 50/50 series really. Might have swung in favor of the Cavs

FlashBolt
05-13-2015, 05:57 PM
meh Gasol is out though. It's a 50/50 series really. Might have swung in favor of the Cavs

Gasol has only been out for two games, though. It's just Cavs have stepped up while Bulls haven't. Irving has been playing injured. Everything out of him is pure Kobe-mentality.

KnicksorBust
05-13-2015, 05:59 PM
Nope that's your title. Your so clueless your truly believe cavs are the underdog and cavs winning is upset.

With Love out and Irving being injured, how are the Cavs not an underdog at this point? Look at everyone else. You're telling me the Cavs are favorites under the current conditions? More like you guys just want to blame James when they inevitably lose in the Finals.

That's how good Lebron is at basketball.

FraziersKnicks
05-13-2015, 06:02 PM
Nope that's your title. Your so clueless your truly believe cavs are the underdog and cavs winning is upset.

No, that's what the majority of the poll in the series thread thinks.

FlashBolt
05-13-2015, 06:05 PM
No, that's what the majority of the poll in the series thread thinks.

He's so delusional and too inept to understand what's going on. Literally, there's a poll that shows more people think Bulls are going to win than Cavs and he's still asking saying otherwise.. lol.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-13-2015, 06:06 PM
Nope that's your title. Your so clueless your truly believe cavs are the underdog and cavs winning is upset.

With Love out and Irving being injured, how are the Cavs not an underdog at this point? Look at everyone else. You're telling me the Cavs are favorites under the current conditions? More like you guys just want to blame James when they inevitably lose in the Finals.

They are not underdogs. Pau is hurt as well and the Cavs have home court.

FlashBolt
05-13-2015, 06:08 PM
They are not underdogs. Pau is hurt as well and the Cavs have home court.

Jesus, can you guys really comprehend information given? They were underdogs when the series began. Obviously, looking into it now up 3-2, why should they be considered underdogs? They've played above their ability (J.R./Shump/Mosgov/Thompson) have stepped up. They didn't have homecourt advantage after losing game 1... So I don't understand what you're talking about. Pau was hurt for two games out of five. Last I checked, Cavs lost Love, has a hobbled Irving, and Smith was out for two games. Pau doesn't equate to that. The only reason Cavs have an upside (because their bench is pretty much even), is because Cavs have LeBron whereas Bulls has Rose.

Tony_Starks
05-13-2015, 06:11 PM
meh Gasol is out though. It's a 50/50 series really. Might have swung in favor of the Cavs

Gasol has only been out for two games, though. It's just Cavs have stepped up while Bulls haven't. Irving has been playing injured. Everything out of him is pure Kobe-mentality.

You do realize those "only" 2 games Gasol missed are 2 L's right? The Bulls are already anemic offensively w/Gasol, without him they're like the Baltimore Ravens......

More-Than-Most
05-13-2015, 06:11 PM
They are not underdogs. Pau is hurt as well and the Cavs have home court.

Yes they were underdogs and should be going forward every series because they Have Shump and James.... Irving is hurt and hasnt been remotely close to himself these playoffs and no love... The Bulls right now are an all around better team and so will the Wizards with a John wall of course.

More-Than-Most
05-13-2015, 06:13 PM
Championships don't matter because it's a team game, unless you're talking about Lebron, then it's him leading garbage to the finals by himself.

Lol Touche... I came in here and was about to say something and saw this post and would have put my own foot in my mouth. I am one that preaches team game more than anyone and take the route of Lebron is his team at times which is wrong... I think he adds more to the team than anyone because of his skill and his style of play mostly but this post is correct... Team game.

mngopher35
05-13-2015, 06:14 PM
meh Gasol is out though. It's a 50/50 series really. Might have swung in favor of the Cavs

Ya I don't think either team was much of an underdog going in. Cavs have had more player issues (Love, Kyrie hobbled, JR) but when healthy they were the favorite imo so that just makes it a more even series.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-13-2015, 06:19 PM
They are not underdogs. Pau is hurt as well and the Cavs have home court.

Jesus, can you guys really comprehend information given? They were underdogs when the series began. Obviously, looking into it now up 3-2, why should they be considered underdogs? They've played above their ability (J.R./Shump/Mosgov/Thompson) have stepped up. They didn't have homecourt advantage after losing game 1... So I don't understand what you're talking about. Pau was hurt for two games out of five. Last I checked, Cavs lost Love, has a hobbled Irving, and Smith was out for two games. Pau doesn't equate to that. The only reason Cavs have an upside (because their bench is pretty much even), is because Cavs have LeBron whereas Bulls has Rose.

It's pretty even in all honestly. I don't have anyone as the underdog

FlashBolt
05-13-2015, 06:29 PM
You do realize those "only" 2 games Gasol missed are 2 L's right? The Bulls are already anemic offensively w/Gasol, without him they're like the Baltimore Ravens......

And you do realize the Cavs have players injured/out/suspended when playing the Bulls, right? Gasol is a great player but you act as if the Cavs are 100% as well.

Tony_Starks
05-13-2015, 06:35 PM
You do realize those "only" 2 games Gasol missed are 2 L's right? The Bulls are already anemic offensively w/Gasol, without him they're like the Baltimore Ravens......

And you do realize the Cavs have players injured/out/suspended when playing the Bulls, right? Gasol is a great player but you act as if the Cavs are 100% as well.


Im just saying I really don't get your agenda of pushing the Cavs as underdogs. This is one of the most evenly matched series in recent history, both teams have injuries to players that are crucial in their respective role(s).

Its going to come down to whatever team plays harder and/or gets luckier in game 7, neither team has a distinct advantage.

FlashBolt
05-13-2015, 06:38 PM
Im just saying I really don't get your agenda of pushing the Cavs as underdogs. This is one of the most evenly matched series in recent history, both teams have injuries to players that are crucial in their respective role(s).

They are underdogs... PSD and many analysts have chosen the Bulls. Even before Love was injured and the playoffs was starting, many people had the Bulls winning. So all of a sudden it's an even series? I think people need to stop confusing even vs outplayed. Bulls aren't playing to par while Cavs aren't as well. The difference is that when it comes down to who makes the plays, Cleveland are one step ahead of the Bulls and have played above their expectations. There is no way this Bulls team isn't better on paper than the Cavs. Guys just stepped up.

ManRam
05-13-2015, 06:47 PM
Hot take: He undeniably was not as good this year as he has been for a while, including the playoffs prior to last night. However, he's still amazing and can be carry a team like no other.

L8kers4life
05-13-2015, 06:57 PM
They are underdogs... PSD and many analysts have chosen the Bulls. Even before Love was injured and the playoffs was starting, many people had the Bulls winning. So all of a sudden it's an even series? I think people need to stop confusing even vs outplayed. Bulls aren't playing to par while Cavs aren't as well. The difference is that when it comes down to who makes the plays, Cleveland are one step ahead of the Bulls and have played above their expectations. There is no way this Bulls team isn't better on paper than the Cavs. Guys just stepped up.

I disagree 100%
The best player in this series is LeBron, the second best player is Kyrie, after that it's Jimmy Butler. Cavs have home court and Lebron James if you think they are an underdog in this series your smoking crack. You act like Shumpert, Mosgov, JR smith for 3 games, James Jones and Tristan Thompson are not good role players. The Cavs have way too much fire power for a team that struggles to score. Also, there have been many rumors stating that Thibodeou may get fired at the end of the season, so obviously there is a discontent. Heck if Derrick Rose missed that shot it this series would already be over. If you think the Bulls were favored at anytime other than games 1 and 2 your crazy, as soon as the Cave won one of the first 2 games of this series, this series was over.

FlashBolt
05-13-2015, 07:05 PM
I disagree 100%
The best player in this series is LeBron, the second best player is Kyrie, after that it's Jimmy Butler. Bulls have home court and Lebron James if you think they are an underdog in this series your smoking crack. You act like Shumpert, Mosgov, JR smith for 3 games, James Jones and Tristan Thompson are not good role players. The Cavs have way too much fire power for a team that struggles to score. Also, there have been many rumors stating that Thibodeou may get fired at the end of the season, so obviously there is a discontent. Heck if Derrick Rose missed that shot it this series would already be over. If you think the Bulls were favored at anytime other than games 1 and 2 your crazy, as soon as the Cave won one of the first 2 games of this series, this series was over.

All I read were hypothetical situations. "If Derrick Rose missed." Well, what if James missed in game 4? What if the refs called a tech on Blatt? So let's not get into those fairy tale what if's. Assuming EVERYONE was healthy, the Cavs would certainly have a say. But the thing is, Irving isn't healthy. When reports came out that he was suffering from an injury and he had those horrible games, this very well wasn't an even series. It's just Irving has stepped up (game 5) while Shump/J.R./Mos/Thompson have as well while Bulls haven't. Shump/J.R. have NEVER played this well in the playoffs. If many people had the Bulls over the Cavs even when the Cavs were 100% healthy, what makes you think this was an even series given when has occurred? You probably meant to put Cavs having homecourt/LeBron but when did they have homecourt after game 1? They didn't. Bulls had the advantage at that point but blew game 4. If Cavs were heading to Chicago being down 3-2, you'd be finding ways to crucify LeBron.

Chronz
05-13-2015, 07:06 PM
Those numbers are nice but don't tell the entire story whatsoever. Injuries, loss of players, different coaches, etc.....

But anyways, why reach? Lebron is having a helluva series NOW theres no need for skewed retro numbers to validate his greatness.

They tell more of a story than you pretend. The aspects you've mentioned mattered very little so long as 1 man was around. Its been broken down, the variables argument works both way and only serve to enhance Brons case, so drop the skewed numbers facade.

And I disagree with him having a helluva series, but I guess I have a different standard.

Chronz
05-13-2015, 07:10 PM
Well Kobe does spend most of his energy battling it out with 3 west teams before getting to the finals, he also has amazing stats in the west finals, which a lot of the time is the real finals.he also knows that he doesn't have to play as well in the finals because to competition is not as stiff. He made a big mistake having that mentality in the 04 finals, and the celtics were just too much for one man in 2007. Let's not forget Kobe has played against the west his whole career and has faced 5 times the completion Lebron has to get to the finals. He's also 5-2 and Lebron is 2-3.

LMFAO, I didn't know you were Kobes shrink during the 04 Finals. Funny how your theory goes directly against Phil Jacksons recollection of the series. Also, ahem, LOL@ the energy meter you think you carry.

2007? You mean 2008 and he wasn't alone. And of course hes 5-2, he was on a team that could win a Finals game with him playing a meager 9 minutes or whatever it was. CONTEXT . LOOK IT UP.

Chronz
05-13-2015, 07:11 PM
that's the most pointless stat ever.
kbfan**

Chronz
05-13-2015, 07:15 PM
I just cannot come back to that.

:worthy::worthy::worthy:

You are easily the most clueless poster on this site and that's saying something.

Imagine the gall it takes to pretend to know the inner workings of ur idol and disregarding observations made from his own coach. If anything, Kobe tried to do too much that series, per Phil Jackson. Really wish KB fans read up on their god.


Championships don't matter because it's a team game, unless you're talking about Lebron, then it's him leading garbage to the finals by himself.

Straws, the ultimate in artillery for the kobe fan.

L8kers4life
05-13-2015, 07:15 PM
All I read were hypothetical situations. "If Derrick Rose missed." Well, what if James missed in game 4? What if the refs called a tech on Blatt? So let's not get into those fairy tale what if's. Assuming EVERYONE was healthy, the Cavs would certainly have a say. But the thing is, Irving isn't healthy. When reports came out that he was suffering from an injury and he had those horrible games, this very well wasn't an even series. It's just Irving has stepped up (game 5) while Shump/J.R./Mos/Thompson have as well while Bulls haven't. Shump/J.R. have NEVER played this well in the playoffs. If many people had the Bulls over the Cavs even when the Cavs were 100% healthy, what makes you think this was an even series given when has occurred? You probably meant to put Cavs having homecourt/LeBron but when did they have homecourt after game 1? They didn't. Bulls had the advantage at that point but blew game 4. If Cavs were heading to Chicago being down 3-2, you'd be finding ways to crucify LeBron.

What are you talking about, the Bulls have never won ****, you make it sound like this was a given are something. And Kyrie being hurt doesn't mean much look at his production, it's better than Derrick Rose who is just 7 weeks removed from surgery. What's up with you, you have the biggest LeBron Boner on here, you have convinced yourself the Cavs are a underdog, even though this topic was brought up a week or two ago when love was injured and the overwhelming majority stated the Cavs are still the favorite. The fact that Pau went down for the 2 most important games and the Bulls lost just furthers the point that the Bulls are not the favorites, Pau is there best player, losing him screwed the Bulls.

L8kers4life
05-13-2015, 07:19 PM
LMFAO, I didn't know you were Kobes shrink during the 04 Finals. Funny how your theory goes directly against Phil Jacksons recollection of the series. Also, ahem, LOL@ the energy meter you think you carry.

2007? You mean 2008 and he wasn't alone. And of course hes 5-2, he was on a team that could win a Finals game with him playing a meager 9 minutes or whatever it was. CONTEXT . LOOK IT UP.

You make a great point but let's not forget the game after that 9 minute game in which he got injured, Shaq got in foul trouble and had to sit towards the end of the game, Kobe closed it out and hit the game winner against Indiana.

Tony_Starks
05-13-2015, 07:22 PM
Im just saying I really don't get your agenda of pushing the Cavs as underdogs. This is one of the most evenly matched series in recent history, both teams have injuries to players that are crucial in their respective role(s).

They are underdogs... PSD and many analysts have chosen the Bulls. Even before Love was injured and the playoffs was starting, many people had the Bulls winning. So all of a sudden it's an even series? I think people need to stop confusing even vs outplayed. Bulls aren't playing to par while Cavs aren't as well. The difference is that when it comes down to who makes the plays, Cleveland are one step ahead of the Bulls and have played above their expectations. There is no way this Bulls team isn't better on paper than the Cavs. Guys just stepped up.

I think you're seriously confused as to what a underdog is. The Pelicans were underdogs vs the Dubs. Celtics were underdogs vs the Cavs. Wizards vs Atlanta.

There's no underdog in this series. Plenty of people picked the Cavs even without Love. If they happen to win the series I think you will be the only one that's shocked. Picking one team to win over the other doesn't mean they are like this huge monster favorite amongst two evenly matched teams, it just means you like certain matchups better.

If you just want to be able to say "they weren't supposed to win anyway" when the Cavs lose it's cool man, whatever floats your fan boat.

FlashBolt
05-13-2015, 07:31 PM
What are you talking about, the Bulls have never won ****, you make it sound like this was a given are something. And Kyrie being hurt doesn't mean much look at his production, it's better than Derrick Rose who is just 7 weeks removed from surgery. What's up with you, you have the biggest LeBron Boner on here, you have convinced yourself the Cavs are a underdog, even though this topic was brought up a week or two ago when love was injured and the overwhelming majority stated the Cavs are still the favorite. The fact that Pau went down for the 2 most important games and the Bulls lost just furthers the point that the Bulls are not the favorites, Pau is there best player, losing him screwed the Bulls.

Bulls won game 1... So therefore, they had homecourt advantage until game 4 when the Cavs tied it up. Rose has outplayed Kyrie this series.. I don't know what you're looking at but there's a reason they put Irving away from Rose. How does Kyrie being hurt not mean much? Who do you think is handling the ball for them when Irving isn't healthy? You also said Pau was the Bulls best player? Are you having a headache here? He completely sucked in games 2/3. Jimmy Butler has been their best player since the season started. I'm not the only one who thought the Cavs were going to lose. Go check the poll results, please. Funny you bring up LeBron boner when Kobe's penis is literally inside you more than anything else.

ManRam
05-13-2015, 07:33 PM
I think you're seriously confused as to what a underdog is. The Pelicans were underdogs vs the Dubs. Celtics were underdogs vs the Cavs. Wizards vs Atlanta.

There's no underdog in this series. Plenty of people picked the Cavs even without Love. If they happen to win the series I think you will be the only one that's shocked. Picking one team to win over the other doesn't mean they are like this huge monster favorite amongst two evenly matched teams, it just means you like certain matchups better.

If you just want to be able to say "they weren't supposed to win anyway" when the Cavs lose it's cool man, whatever floats your fan boat.

Yeah, I don't get this "Cavs are the underdogs" narrative either. It's just false. Period.

Cleveland were -215 on the money line, and Chicago +180 for the series. That's sizable.

Game 1: 4.5 point favorites
Game 2: 5.5 point favorites
Game 3: 2.5 point underdogs
Game 4: 3 point favorites
Game 5: 5.5 point favorites


There were people saying the Bulls were more talented on paper, but the consensus was not that they'd win this series. I keep seeing people suggest this, but I don't get it. It's false. 60% of ESPN analysts picked Cleveland. I'm sure public opinion was very similar.

The Cavs were favorites. If they lost it would have been an upset. Period.

FlashBolt
05-13-2015, 07:35 PM
I think you're seriously confused as to what a underdog is. The Pelicans were underdogs vs the Dubs. Celtics were underdogs vs the Cavs. Wizards vs Atlanta.

There's no underdog in this series. Plenty of people picked the Cavs even without Love. If they happen to win the series I think you will be the only one that's shocked. Picking one team to win over the other doesn't mean they are like this huge monster favorite amongst two evenly matched teams, it just means you like certain matchups better.

If you just want to be able to say "they weren't supposed to win anyway" when the Cavs lose it's cool man, whatever floats your fan boat.

You're the same guy who said Love won't be missed when he was injured. At that point, I knew you were just looking for a way to make it seem as if the Cavs are favorites to win the ring and if in any case they lose, will start to point fingers at LeBron (mainly by spamming 2-6) everywhere you can. Stop it. No one has the Cavs as the favorites to win the ring other than a couple of hardcore Cleveland fans. Everyone has pretty much acknowledged that the champion will come out from the West. So if you want to boost your LeBron hatred further by claiming they are the favorites, go ahead. I already had them losing in the Finals before the season even began.

FlashBolt
05-13-2015, 07:35 PM
Yeah, I don't get this "Cavs are the underdogs" narrative either. It's just false. Period.

Cleveland were -215 on the money line, and Chicago +180 for the series. That's sizable.

Game 1: 4.5 point favorites
Game 2: 5.5 point favorites
Game 3: 2.5 point underdogs
Game 4: 3 point favorites
Game 5: 5.5 point favorites


There were people saying the Bulls were more talented on paper, but the consensus was not that they'd win this series. I keep seeing people suggest this, but I don't get it. It's false. 60% of ESPN analysts picked Cleveland. I'm sure public opinion was very similar.

The Cavs were favorites. If they lost it would have been an upset. Period.

How many of those analysts would pick the Cavs if they knew Kyrie was injured?

ManRam
05-13-2015, 07:45 PM
How many of those analysts would pick the Cavs if they knew Kyrie was injured?

What about Pau...

Look. The fact is: the Cavs were favorites entering the series, and have been favorites in 4 of 5 games. They'll be a point or two underdogs on the road tomorrow. That again suggests that Vegas thinks they're the better team.

All I'm saying is calling them underdogs is just silly. Maybe they're more evenly matched than anything, but clear underdogs? No. Never.

flea
05-13-2015, 07:55 PM
Lol Cavs weren't going to be dogs in the East vs. any team except perhaps the Hawks. Even still I doubt they wouldn't be favored if that series starts tomorrow. Cavs lost Love but they still have a top 5 offensive rebounder, top 10-15 rim protector and finisher, former 6th man of the year and one of the 10 or so best shooters in the league, a guy who many have recognized and one of the better perimeter defenders over the last 4 or 5 years, and perhaps the most gifted scorer in the game currently (it's him or Curry). Oh yeah and the guy this thread is about. They've got more talent than 90% of the teams in the playoffs. Are they the best team in the playoffs? Not a chance, but in the East? Maybe - we'll see.

L8kers4life
05-13-2015, 08:00 PM
Bulls won game 1... So therefore, they had homecourt advantage until game 4 when the Cavs tied it up. Rose has outplayed Kyrie this series.. I don't know what you're looking at but there's a reason they put Irving away from Rose. How does Kyrie being hurt not mean much? Who do you think is handling the ball for them when Irving isn't healthy? You also said Pau was the Bulls best player? Are you having a headache here? He completely sucked in games 2/3. Jimmy Butler has been their best player since the season started. I'm not the only one who thought the Cavs were going to lose. Go check the poll results, please. Funny you bring up LeBron boner when Kobe's penis is literally inside you more than anything else.

Dude STFU, this has nothing to do with Kobe dont know why you idiots keep bringing him up, quit changing the subject, the question we are arguing is that the Cavs are underdogs in this series, Vegas, the public and PSD all disagree with you, Cavs are going to the finals, I suppose you think if the Hawks make it to the conference finals they will be favored to win against the Cavs as well, sorry buddy not gonna happen, when you have the best player on the planet you will be favored 9 times out of 10. get as mad as you want, none of it will change the fact you are wrong, and quit bringing up Kobe it just makes you look worse, you act like I brought up kobe to you or something. The only people on that stupid poll who thought the Cavs were going to Lose to the bulls are most of the LeBron homers who want to make it seem like LeBron has this crazy tough path to the finals and that he is carrying his team all by himself.

RLundi
05-13-2015, 08:03 PM
Well Kobe does spend most of his energy battling it out with 3 west teams before getting to the finals, he also has amazing stats in the west finals, which a lot of the time is the real finals.he also knows that he doesn't have to play as well in the finals because to competition is not as stiff. He made a big mistake having that mentality in the 04 finals, and the celtics were just too much for one man in 2007. Let's not forget Kobe has played against the west his whole career and has faced 5 times the completion Lebron has to get to the finals. He's also 5-2 and Lebron is 2-3.

You are by far, and by all accounts, the single worst poster on this website, hands down. It's taxing just knowing people like you exist.

L8kers4life
05-13-2015, 08:09 PM
Bulls won game 1... So therefore, they had homecourt advantage until game 4 when the Cavs tied it up. Rose has outplayed Kyrie this series.. I don't know what you're looking at but there's a reason they put Irving away from Rose. How does Kyrie being hurt not mean much? Who do you think is handling the ball for them when Irving isn't healthy? You also said Pau was the Bulls best player? Are you having a headache here? He completely sucked in games 2/3. Jimmy Butler has been their best player since the season started. I'm not the only one who thought the Cavs were going to lose. Go check the poll results, please. Funny you bring up LeBron boner when Kobe's penis is literally inside you more than anything else.


Your definition of Kyrie being hurt is pretty asanine, he is averaging 39 minutes a game and shooting 40% from the 3 point line, I hardly think averaging 20ppg 3.5 assists, 2.5 rebounds and 1.6 steals is hurt. Rose is averaging 21 on 24 shots and 38% shooting, and Jimmy Butler is averaging 21 which is not much better than Kyrie. I love how you minimize Pau, the Bulls have no scoring, no rebounding and no interior passing without Pau, plus Pau is the only player on the Rockets with Championship experience and really helps the spacing and defense for the Bulls. Pau was arguably the best player on the Bulls this year, if thats laughable for you than sorry.

FraziersKnicks
05-13-2015, 08:10 PM
You are by far, and by all accounts, the single worst poster on this website, hands down. It's taxing just knowing people like you exist.

:laugh2:

bucketss
05-13-2015, 08:27 PM
like i said, a lot of wishful thinking in this thread. some people really pray on his downfall.

Tony_Starks
05-13-2015, 08:50 PM
I think you're seriously confused as to what a underdog is. The Pelicans were underdogs vs the Dubs. Celtics were underdogs vs the Cavs. Wizards vs Atlanta.

There's no underdog in this series. Plenty of people picked the Cavs even without Love. If they happen to win the series I think you will be the only one that's shocked. Picking one team to win over the other doesn't mean they are like this huge monster favorite amongst two evenly matched teams, it just means you like certain matchups better.

If you just want to be able to say "they weren't supposed to win anyway" when the Cavs lose it's cool man, whatever floats your fan boat.

You're the same guy who said Love won't be missed when he was injured. At that point, I knew you were just looking for a way to make it seem as if the Cavs are favorites to win the ring and if in any case they lose, will start to point fingers at LeBron (mainly by spamming 2-6) everywhere you can. Stop it. No one has the Cavs as the favorites to win the ring other than a couple of hardcore Cleveland fans. Everyone has pretty much acknowledged that the champion will come out from the West. So if you want to boost your LeBron hatred further by claiming they are the favorites, go ahead. I already had them losing in the Finals before the season even began.

You're literally the only one that is pushing them as a underdog man, just let it go nobody is buying the narrative you're selling.

And I had the Bulls winning this series before Love got hurt and then changed my prediction to Cavs in 7 because I knew Thompson was going to be playing D and crashing boards. I feel pretty confident with that prediction even though I believe you said before the series started that "the Cavs have NO chance without Kevin Love."

Enjoy the series.

L8kers4life
05-13-2015, 09:11 PM
like i said, a lot of wishful thinking in this thread. some people really pray on his downfall.

Seriously it's old already, Lebron is the best player in the game, people need to stop trying to make him less than he is.

NJrockPD
05-13-2015, 09:16 PM
Lebron's shot isn't working so he realized he can just lower his shoulder and run through people the past few games. The NBA is so soft now that you can't breath on the 6'9" 270 locomotive driving the lane without getting a foul called, but he can lower his shoulder and knock defenders into the crowd and still go to the line.

5ass
05-13-2015, 09:21 PM
ban me for what? Not agreeing with everything Lebron fans say? Grow up

Hey its for your own good man. i just want you to stop trying to prove kobe is better than lebron and just enjoy life my friend. lol all your posts come from bitterness.
You sound like a little kid repeating the same **** over and over and ignoring all people who present facts to debate with you and you're telling ME to grow up? Theres a reason you were banned for so long, and its the same reason why you're getting banned soon.

Hawkeye15
05-13-2015, 09:37 PM
Gasol has only been out for two games, though. It's just Cavs have stepped up while Bulls haven't. Irving has been playing injured. Everything out of him is pure Kobe-mentality.

The Cavs were never underdogs. At best, it was a toss up. Cmon

Jamiecballer
05-13-2015, 10:48 PM
He's right tho. You guys say that all the time.
Because winning a championship is not possible without a lot of help and a good amount of luck. No amount of luck or good fortune can explain 66 wins with a junk team. Honestly that's way more impressive then either of his championships.

IKnowHoops
05-14-2015, 03:02 AM
That's how good Lebron is at basketball.

At the end of the day, this.

IKnowHoops
05-14-2015, 03:11 AM
I get the underdog feel, but in my mind, Lebron would be able to elevate his game to a place that no one can match. He's just to much of a beast and if he turns on, its basically over. I expected him to turn on and just be to much for any team in the east. I still have them a the Winner of the ring this year. Call me crazy, call me a Lebron lover, but at age 30, he still can make any athletic play he wants.

While a top 3 athlete in the NBA still Derrick Rose was sprinting down the court full speed, Lebron jogged 10 feet behind him and then casually and easily made one power step to catch up and annihilate Rose's shot. I don't think any other player in the NBA can make that play, and Lebron did it easily with a lot of room to spare...yes Blake and AD come to mind but I don't think they are fast enough to catch up to rose.

At the end of the day, the Cavs have Lebron, and if he can play his best basketball during these playoffs and finals, I have no doubt they will win...only if he plays his best basketball though. If he plays poorly like the first 4 games of this series, others will have to really step up and I don't know/doubt they can beat the Dubs like that, but If Bron does his thing, they are the best team in Basketball.

Andrew32
05-14-2015, 03:54 AM
I am not gonna jump to any conclusion in regards to Lebron declining.
I feel like his work ethic is good so I wouldn't expect his skills to decline.
Physically he doesn't look that much less athletic then he has in the last 2-3 years.
Maybe a slight decline in that area but for me its hard to tell so the difference is probably small at worst.

His reg-season stats did decline but we could attribute that to the new team.
He saw a similar decline his first year in Miami.

PER Decline
------
2010 to 2011 = -3.8
2014 to 2015 = -3.4

Yeah he has been underwhelming in the playoffs efficiency wise but his raw production is fine, his defense has looked solid and he has had some big games.
His outside shot might just have gotten cold at a bad time.
I am less forgiving of the turnovers though one could attribute that to his absurd usage rate.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-14-2015, 04:00 PM
ban me for what? Not agreeing with everything Lebron fans say? Grow up

Hey its for your own good man. i just want you to stop trying to prove kobe is better than lebron and just enjoy life my friend. lol all your posts come from bitterness.
You sound like a little kid repeating the same **** over and over and ignoring all people who present facts to debate with you and you're telling ME to grow up? Theres a reason you were banned for so long, and its the same reason why you're getting banned soon.

Psd is the only place that has Lebron over Kobe. Very few people in the real world agree with you guys. I rather enjoy bursting your guys bubble.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-14-2015, 04:03 PM
He's right tho. You guys say that all the time.
Because winning a championship is not possible without a lot of help and a good amount of luck. No amount of luck or good fortune can explain 66 wins with a junk team. Honestly that's way more impressive then either of his championships.



:laugh2: did you just say winning 66 games in the east is more impressive than winning a championship? Lmaooooo

More-Than-Most
05-14-2015, 04:16 PM
Psd is the only place that has Lebron over Kobe. Very few people in the real world agree with you guys. I rather enjoy bursting your guys bubble.

lol no i am apart of about 30 different sports forums and they all have the same thing... all the web reports and most of the sports people as well... You need to get a clue man.

ThaDubs
05-14-2015, 04:25 PM
Well Kobe does spend most of his energy battling it out with 3 west teams before getting to the finals, he also has amazing stats in the west finals, which a lot of the time is the real finals.he also knows that he doesn't have to play as well in the finals because to competition is not as stiff. He made a big mistake having that mentality in the 04 finals, and the celtics were just too much for one man in 2007. Let's not forget Kobe has played against the west his whole career and has faced 5 times the completion Lebron has to get to the finals. He's also 5-2 and Lebron is 2-3.

This whole post is mind numbing

Bostonjorge
05-14-2015, 04:44 PM
This whole post is mind numbing

Did you read the part how it's harder to post good numbers in the east? What about the part about winning 66 games on a east team is more impressive then a championship? Your mind will cool down over time.

ThaDubs
05-14-2015, 04:52 PM
Psd is the only place that has Lebron over Kobe. Very few people in the real world agree with you guys. I rather enjoy bursting your guys bubble.

The only people in the real world that say Kobe > LeBron are the 15 year olds who wear Black Mamba shirts. What facet of the game is Kobe superior to LeBron in?

Hawkeye15
05-14-2015, 04:59 PM
The only people in the real world that say Kobe > LeBron are the 15 year olds who wear Black Mamba shirts. What facet of the game is Kobe superior to LeBron in?

ringzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz baby

mngopher35
05-14-2015, 05:00 PM
Psd is the only place that has Lebron over Kobe. Very few people in the real world agree with you guys. I rather enjoy bursting your guys bubble.


lol no i am apart of about 30 different sports forums and they all have the same thing... all the web reports and most of the sports people as well... You need to get a clue man.

I don't get why people bring this up all the time but I agree with you here. Im not a part of 30 forums but I do check in on a few and psd tends to rank Kobe higher than others (some consensus lists have had him outside of top 10 which gets ridiculed by some here).

I think some of these guys who post this only visit laker sites and/or live in la.

Bostonjorge
05-14-2015, 05:05 PM
The only people in the real world that say Kobe > LeBron are the 15 year olds who wear Black Mamba shirts. What facet of the game is Kobe superior to LeBron in?

What about ex NBA and current players who pick Kobe? I never see them wearing Kobe shirts.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-14-2015, 05:06 PM
Psd is the only place that has Lebron over Kobe. Very few people in the real world agree with you guys. I rather enjoy bursting your guys bubble.

lol no i am apart of about 30 different sports forums and they all have the same thing... all the web reports and most of the sports people as well... You need to get a clue man.

Geez you need a girlfriend or a hobby.

And you might be right, on the internet you guys seem to flock together. Everyone I know thinks what you guy say is ridiculous. And I have plenty of friends who are heat fans/ Lebron fans/ laker haters.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-14-2015, 05:08 PM
Psd is the only place that has Lebron over Kobe. Very few people in the real world agree with you guys. I rather enjoy bursting your guys bubble.

The only people in the real world that say Kobe > LeBron are the 15 year olds who wear Black Mamba shirts. What facet of the game is Kobe superior to LeBron in?

Thai just proves how dumb you are. All the Lebron fan boys are 15-25. Kobe fans are older since he's 20 years into the league. Lol

Bostonjorge
05-14-2015, 05:08 PM
I don't get why people bring this up all the time but I agree with you here. Im not a part of 30 forums but I do check in on a few and psd tends to rank Kobe higher than others (some consensus lists have had him outside of top 10 which gets ridiculed by some here).

I think some of these guys who post this only visit laker sites and/or live in la.
I have never seen a forum where it's a sweep that James is better. Not on Twitter, Facebook or any other large site where fans can post. It's always mixed. We all know this. Even on TV it's spilt never one sided.

mngopher35
05-14-2015, 05:14 PM
I have never seen a forum where it's a sweep that James is better. Not on Twitter, Facebook or any other large site where fans can post. It's always mixed. We all know this. Even on TV it's spilt never one sided.

Well if you mean that everyone on a forum won't have the same opinion, then ya that's true it would be boring if they did. I'm saying many sites do have all time threads, polls, lists like psd does and usually those sites have him about where psd's had him or a little lower (either 8 or 9th on the psd list I think). The idea that this is something only people on psd say is ridiculous.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-14-2015, 05:14 PM
Psd is the only place that has Lebron over Kobe. Very few people in the real world agree with you guys. I rather enjoy bursting your guys bubble.

The only people in the real world that say Kobe > LeBron are the 15 year olds who wear Black Mamba shirts. What facet of the game is Kobe superior to LeBron in?

Scoring, handles, fundamentals, free throws, defense, leadership, banging blondes, and most important as hawko pointed out. Ringzzzzzzzz baby!

Hawkeye15
05-14-2015, 05:20 PM
Scoring, handles, fundamentals, free throws, defense, leadership, banging blondes, and most important as hawko pointed out. Ringzzzzzzzz baby!

haha, yes!

ThaDubs
05-14-2015, 05:21 PM
What about ex NBA and current players who pick Kobe? I never see them wearing Kobe shirts.

Such as who?

ThaDubs
05-14-2015, 05:30 PM
Scoring, handles, fundamentals, free throws, defense, leadership, banging blondes, and most important as hawko pointed out. Ringzzzzzzzz baby!

LeBron is a better career scorer, shooter, rebounder, passer, defender, and is more efficient. Rings are won by teams, not single players. Kobe had this guy named Shaq as a teammate and then later a PF who was metrically superior to him during the finals

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-14-2015, 05:37 PM
Scoring, handles, fundamentals, free throws, defense, leadership, banging blondes, and most important as hawko pointed out. Ringzzzzzzzz baby!

LeBron is a better career scorer, shooter, rebounder, passer, defender, and is more efficient. Rings are won by teams, not single players. Kobe had this guy named Shaq as a teammate and then later a PF who was metrically superior to him during the finals

Agree to disagree on a lot of what you just said. Btw Kobe wasn't even in his prime yet when he was with Shaq. And it's a shame Shaq eventually got jealous of Kobe or they would have won much more together. Pau was awesome but Kobe was the clear MVP in both years. Keep reaching

PraiseJesus
05-14-2015, 05:45 PM
Lebron has a couple more elite years left

When he does decline though - its going to be STEEEP. This is because his game relies so much on his athleticism.

A player like Steph Curry will be great into his 40s due to his style of game

DillyDill
05-14-2015, 06:15 PM
Lebron has a couple more elite years left

When he does decline though - its going to be STEEEP. This is because his game relies so much on his athleticism.

A player like Steph Curry will be great into his 40s due to his style of game
I disagree on that on "STEEP" decline. I feel Bron can have a Karl/Reem/Duncan type of long lasting career he's a physical specimen who never gets hurts its insane

Tony_Starks
05-14-2015, 06:24 PM
You guys really never get tired of this Kobe Lebron stuff I see. The nike commercials with their puppets settled this debate once and for all years ago my friends!

Vee-Rex
05-14-2015, 06:25 PM
You guys really never get tired of this Kobe Lebron stuff I see. The nike commercials with their puppets settled this debate once and for all years ago my friends!

Ha, I loved those commercials.

IKnowHoops
05-14-2015, 06:45 PM
Geez you need a girlfriend or a hobby.

And you might be right, on the internet you guys seem to flock together. Everyone I know thinks what you guy say is ridiculous. And I have plenty of friends who are heat fans/ Lebron fans/ laker haters.

So you saying that your laker hating, Lebron fan friends, think its ridiculous for Lebron to be rated above Kober? Suuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeee this is a true story.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-14-2015, 06:50 PM
You guys really never get tired of this Kobe Lebron stuff I see. The nike commercials with their puppets settled this debate once and for all years ago my friends!

Ha, I loved those commercials.

But do you really?


http://youtu.be/MP-p9i85sNc
http://youtu.be/jV6wTXeCzy8

JordansBulls
05-14-2015, 06:51 PM
Jimmy Butler has been locking him up. He held him to 24 ppg on 43% Fg in 2013.

Vee-Rex
05-14-2015, 06:54 PM
But do you really?


http://youtu.be/MP-p9i85sNc
http://youtu.be/jV6wTXeCzy8

Yup. Those are two of my favorite ones. The Rings one might be my favorite.

Just because I'm a Cavs fan doesn't mean I hate Kobe. I know that's such a difficult thing to understand for most PSD people.. Kobe's the man, I will probably cry the day he retires lol.

And yeah, I'm a fan of Bron too.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-14-2015, 06:55 PM
Geez you need a girlfriend or a hobby.

And you might be right, on the internet you guys seem to flock together. Everyone I know thinks what you guy say is ridiculous. And I have plenty of friends who are heat fans/ Lebron fans/ laker haters.

So you saying that your laker hating, Lebron fan friends, think its ridiculous for Lebron to be rated above Kober? Suuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeee this is a true story.

Yes they do actually, except one super homer who's a Lebron fan and doesn't follow a team.

They all say they hate the man, but cannot hate on his greatness and what he's accomplished. The word "legend" comes up a lot. Psd is the one of the few places where not only is Lebron ranked above him but you guys have him top ten already. I've actually seen people have him top 5 , and one or two called him goat or soon to be.

IKnowHoops
05-14-2015, 07:01 PM
Lebron has a couple more elite years left

When he does decline though - its going to be STEEEP. This is because his game relies so much on his athleticism.

A player like Steph Curry will be great into his 40s due to his style of game

This is nonsense. I have a different theory in this. Because Lebron was physically so far ahead of everyone else, it will take him till the age of 40 to be like everyone else. At which point he will still be a guy who plays the game the right way a great passer, strong, 6'8, and 260 lbs. His decline will not be steep. His athletic ability will slowly dwindle away as it already has. He had already lost some athletic ability by his first season in Miami. His athletic Peak was during his last 3 seasons in Cleveland. But somehow he still got better in Miami after loosing athletic ability so that destroys your whole "Lebron will have a steep decline because he relies so heavily on athletic ability" theory. If he relied as heavily as you say, then his slight decline in athleticism would have resulted in a slight decline in his over all game. But instead his game slight elevated and he was shooting 57% from the field. I predict at worst that his game/production/athletic ability declines similarly to Karl Malone's career at worst. I could see him having the longest career of all time. He never gets hurt, he's indestructible. Either way, he'll have a top 3 career in longevity statistically right there with Malone and Jabbar.

IKnowHoops
05-14-2015, 07:14 PM
Yes they do actually, except one super homer who's a Lebron fan and doesn't follow a team.

They all say they hate the man, but cannot hate on his greatness and what he's accomplished. The word "legend" comes up a lot. Psd is the one of the few places where not only is Lebron ranked above him but you guys have him top ten already. I've actually seen people have him top 5 , and one or two called him goat or soon to be.

Guilty as charged

Tony_Starks
05-14-2015, 07:17 PM
But do you really?


http://youtu.be/MP-p9i85sNc
http://youtu.be/jV6wTXeCzy8

Yup. Those are two of my favorite ones. The Rings one might be my favorite.

Just because I'm a Cavs fan doesn't mean I hate Kobe. I know that's such a difficult thing to understand for most PSD people.. Kobe's the man, I will probably cry the day he retires lol.

And yeah, I'm a fan of Bron too.

Honestly I rarely see Cleveland fans hate on Kobe. It's like their secure with having their own great player and don't feel the need for the pissing contest. Laker fans and Cleveland fans are good, it's the diehard Lebron and Kobe fans that can't let it go......

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-14-2015, 07:33 PM
Is no one else going to touch on that fact that jamiecballer said that winning 66 games in the eastern conference is a greater accomplishment than winning a championship???? :laugh2:

Jamiecballer
05-14-2015, 07:42 PM
:laugh2: did you just say winning 66 games in the east is more impressive than winning a championship? Lmaooooo
You need a great team to win a championship. Until to that point it was assumed that the same held for an incredible season winning almost 70 games. So more impressive, absolutely I'd say it is. It's not what you play for of course but that's besides the point.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-14-2015, 07:49 PM
:laugh2: did you just say winning 66 games in the east is more impressive than winning a championship? Lmaooooo
You need a great team to win a championship. Until to that point it was assumed that the same held for an incredible season winning almost 70 games. So more impressive, absolutely I'd say it is. It's not what you play for of course but that's besides the point.

Quit PSD forever...

Tony_Starks
05-14-2015, 07:52 PM
Is no one else going to touch on that fact that jamiecballer said that winning 66 games in the eastern conference is a greater accomplishment than winning a championship???? :laugh2:

As hard core of a Lebron fan as he is I can't imagine even he truly believes the man was singlehandedly responsible for 66 wins. Didn't even take it seriously.....

Jamiecballer
05-14-2015, 08:17 PM
Championships are won every year boys

More-Than-Most
05-14-2015, 08:27 PM
You know whats funny though... people including myself get so angry when we say one player is better than the other but both of these players are top 12 players ever in the history of the sport... when you think about it like that it becomes rather silly.

More-Than-Most
05-14-2015, 08:29 PM
Geez you need a girlfriend or a hobby.

And you might be right, on the internet you guys seem to flock together. Everyone I know thinks what you guy say is ridiculous. And I have plenty of friends who are heat fans/ Lebron fans/ laker haters.

I have a GF and several hobbies but i love sports.... I use to act like a dick in here often for really no reason but i have a good amount of actual people i consider friends on this site and others and enjoy alot of their imput... also this is a hobby.

More-Than-Most
05-14-2015, 08:32 PM
Jimmy Butler has been locking him up. He held him to 24 ppg on 43% Fg in 2013.

you mean a player whom is great can lock up another great player and it not be decline? Seriously its annoying out little respect Butler gets or the bulls defense has gotten for this series.

FraziersKnicks
05-14-2015, 08:41 PM
you mean a player whom is great can lock up another great player and it not be decline? Seriously its annoying out little respect Butler gets or the bulls defense has gotten for this series.

Butler has been absolutely superb defensively. Extremely deserving of the max contract he's gonna get this summer.

Tony_Starks
05-14-2015, 08:42 PM
You know whats funny though... people including myself get so angry when we say one player is better than the other but both of these players are top 12 players ever in the history of the sport... when you think about it like that it becomes rather silly.

True that. I think most of it is trolling honestly. Like when someone says Lebron is top 5 already and Kobe is maybe top 15 its like really? Really bro?

Sometimes its so absurd you can't help but fall for the bait, especially when they are really passionate about it or even worse take a high horse insulting stance to go along with it.

Chronz
05-14-2015, 09:22 PM
Is no one else going to touch on that fact that jamiecballer said that winning 66 games in the eastern conference is a greater accomplishment than winning a championship???? :laugh2:

I understand the context. I once said that about Shaq getting the Suns into the playoffs with his All-Star rebirth, that it would be on par with winning a chip like he did with Miami.

Lets put it this way, would you rather BY AND LARGE be responsible for 66 Wins on a squad without a secondary All-Star or would you rather come off the bench for a championship winning team?

Winning a championship is vague and tells us nothing. I've been more impressed by guys who lost over guys who happened to be on a championship in the past, its like asking to judge a player by how he plays and performs or by how good his team was? Both matter, but it should go without saying why we would focus on the individuals level of play when crediting an INDIVIDUAL.

Chronz
05-14-2015, 09:29 PM
As hard core of a Lebron fan as he is I can't imagine even he truly believes the man was singlehandedly responsible for 66 wins. Didn't even take it seriously.....
I dont think its a greater accomplishment than winning in the fashion that Bron did but where did he say singlehandedly? It IS however about the individuals contributions to that record.

L8kers4life
05-14-2015, 09:50 PM
I dont think its a greater accomplishment than winning in the fashion that Bron did but where did he say singlehandedly? It IS however about the individuals contributions to that record.


Can you explain why winning 66 games is more of an acomplishment than winning a championship? Since when did winning 66 games mean more for a player than that same person winning a ring, teams win 66 games and teams win championships, LeBron could do neither by himself.

Secondly you guys are stating that winning 66 games is more of a accomplishment than winning a ring. My question to you is, if LeBron would have won the ring the year they won 66 games, what would be looked at in higher regard the 66 wins or the championship?

It makes no sense that 66 wins means more than a championship to an individual, they both require their respective teams to accomplish either feat. This is a dumb argument and you guys are reaching..

L8kers4life
05-14-2015, 09:53 PM
Man this is hilarious, LeBron is 5 for 18 from the field, Kyrie is hurt now and the Cavs are up by 18, man the East is tough!

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-14-2015, 10:21 PM
Is no one else going to touch on that fact that jamiecballer said that winning 66 games in the eastern conference is a greater accomplishment than winning a championship???? :laugh2:

I understand the context. I once said that about Shaq getting the Suns into the playoffs with his All-Star rebirth, that it would be on par with winning a chip like he did with Miami.

Lets put it this way, would you rather BY AND LARGE be responsible for 66 Wins on a squad without a secondary All-Star or would you rather come off the bench for a championship winning team?

Winning a championship is vague and tells us nothing. I've been more impressed by guys who lost over guys who happened to be on a championship in the past, its like asking to judge a player by how he plays and performs or by how good his team was? Both matter, but it should go without saying why we would focus on the individuals level of play when crediting an INDIVIDUAL.

Oh FC, leave it to you to try and slice it up to make it seem logical. He said that him taking a trash to to a 66 win record is more impressive than any of his rings. One of the worst statements I've ever heard, worse than my sig. Your explanation covers nothing said in his post. Now go away.

Jamiecballer
05-14-2015, 10:44 PM
Oh FC, leave it to you to try and slice it up to make it seem logical. He said that him taking a trash to to a 66 win record is more impressive than any of his rings. One of the worst statements I've ever heard, worse than my sig. Your explanation covers nothing said in his post. Now go away.
The fact that you of all people - who routinely discount LeBron's rings due to a supposed superior supporting cast - are choosing now to give him credit for winning championships as though it dwarfs dragging a bunch of slugs to one of the greatest records in NBA history is both pathetic and amusing as hell.

Jamiecballer
05-14-2015, 10:52 PM
And for the record chronz obviously did understand what I meant because his post 100% was related to my point. Winning 66 games was more of a herculean effort than anything either LeBron or Kobe did in their combined 7 championship seasons and that's why rings are ultimately a stupid way to judge players.

Bostonjorge
05-14-2015, 11:31 PM
And for the record chronz obviously did understand what I meant because his post 100% was related to my point. Winning 66 games was more of a herculean effort than anything either LeBron or Kobe did in their combined 7 championship seasons and that's why rings are ultimately a stupid way to judge players.

Sorry man to many variables. Cavs getting sweep and soundly is a major issue that brings up more questions. How can the finals be the easiest series for the Spurs? How can a "Herculean" James get completely shut down? Completely taken out the game as a non factor. Can't see how winning 66 games and still being the 6th or 7th best team that year is something special?

Is the Warriors winning 67 games this year in the west more impressive then any James led team has ever accomplished? That's what you are saying here.

FlashBolt
05-14-2015, 11:34 PM
Sorry man to many variables. Cavs getting sweep and soundly is a major issue that brings up more questions. How can the finals be the easiest series for the Spurs? How can a "Herculean" James get completely shut down? Completely taken out the game as a non factor. Can't see how winning 66 games and still being the 6th or 7th best team that year is something special?

Is the Warriors winning 67 games this year in the west more impressive then any James led team has ever accomplished? That's what you are saying here.

Context, pal. The Warriors minus Curry are 1000000% better than the 66 win Cavs without James. If you can't understand things in context, how do you go through life? Is working a minimum wage job familiar with you?

Tony_Starks
05-14-2015, 11:40 PM
Sorry man to many variables. Cavs getting sweep and soundly is a major issue that brings up more questions. How can the finals be the easiest series for the Spurs? How can a "Herculean" James get completely shut down? Completely taken out the game as a non factor. Can't see how winning 66 games and still being the 6th or 7th best team that year is something special?

Is the Warriors winning 67 games this year in the west more impressive then any James led team has ever accomplished? That's what you are saying here.

Context, pal. The Warriors minus Curry are 1000000% better than the 66 win Cavs without James. If you can't understand things in context, how do you go through life? Is working a minimum wage job familiar with you?

Why the personal insults to someone not insulting you? What is this kindergarten?

FlashBolt
05-14-2015, 11:44 PM
Why the personal insults to someone not insulting you? What is this kindergarten?

And that's not a personal insult? Lol.

Bostonjorge
05-14-2015, 11:45 PM
Context, pal. The Warriors minus Curry are 1000000% better than the 66 win Cavs without James. If you can't understand things in context, how do you go through life? Is working a minimum wage job familiar with you?

What's minimum wage?

Also don't forget warriors are playing much stiffer oppents including a much superior version of that same Spurs team that took down that 66 wins Cavs team with ease. That superior Spurs team got eliminated in the first round and was only good enough to make the sixth seed. That's the Herculean teams they had to play for the bulk of the year.

So warriors competition is 100000% better and that should even them out. Does this triumph what James teams has accomplished?

FlashBolt
05-14-2015, 11:49 PM
What's minimum wage?

Also don't forget warriors are playing much stiffer oppents including a much superior version of that same Spurs team that took down that 66 wins Cavs team with ease. That superior Spurs team got eliminated in the first round and was only good enough to make the sixth seed. That's the Herculean teams they had to play for the bulk of the year.

So warriors competition is 100000% better and that should even them out. Does this triumph what James teams has accomplished?

Do you know why the Warriors are 67-15? Because they are a great team overall. You don't play your starting PG 32 minutes in a season unless your team isn't blowing teams out. They are blowing teams out because they are just a great team from top to bottom. Andre Iggy for Christ's sake could start on many teams but he comes off the bench. Who comes out for Curry? Shawn Livingston (who the Heat desperately wanted for their starting PG). Harrison Barnes has the ability to score 16 PPG EASY. David Lee was out and you get a DPOY candidate in Draymond Green. The simple fact is, James carrying that team to 66 wins is an extraordinary feat. Are the Warriors a better team than those Cavs? Definitely. But you could not tell me any player today could have carried that team to 66 wins with that exact team/conference/division. That's not happening.

ThaDubs
05-15-2015, 12:00 AM
What's minimum wage?

Also don't forget warriors are playing much stiffer oppents including a much superior version of that same Spurs team that took down that 66 wins Cavs team with ease. That superior Spurs team got eliminated in the first round and was only good enough to make the sixth seed. That's the Herculean teams they had to play for the bulk of the year.

So warriors competition is 100000% better and that should even them out. Does this triumph what James teams has accomplished?

Singlehandedly leading a team to 66 wins is more impressive than a well coached team of stars and elite defenders winning 67, regardless of conference.

FlashBolt
05-15-2015, 12:05 AM
Singlehandedly leading a team to 66 wins is more impressive than a well coached team of stars and elite defenders winning 67, regardless of conference.

A wild logical person appears...

ewing
05-15-2015, 12:32 AM
What's minimum wage?

Also don't forget warriors are playing much stiffer oppents including a much superior version of that same Spurs team that took down that 66 wins Cavs team with ease. That superior Spurs team got eliminated in the first round and was only good enough to make the sixth seed. That's the Herculean teams they had to play for the bulk of the year.

So warriors competition is 100000% better and that should even them out. Does this triumph what James teams has accomplished?

this years Spurs team wasn't last years spurs team. I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand. was Tony healthy and effective? Did Danny Green lay and egg? These types of comparisons are trash. Did James have more responsibly then Curry? yes. If he went down would the Cavs roaster have a harder time filling that hole? Yes. Does that mean LeBron is better? No, but he is

ThaDubs
05-15-2015, 02:51 AM
A wild logical person appears...

Lol. I don't understand these guys man. Winning a championship is basketball's ultimate accomplishment, but winning 66 wins as your team's 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th option it's more impressive than winning a title with great teammates. As in it takes more skill and it's more difficult as an individual to do.

Jamiecballer
05-15-2015, 12:10 PM
hello?

(echo...)

that's what i thought

Hawkeye15
05-15-2015, 12:27 PM
this years Spurs team wasn't last years spurs team. I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand. was Tony healthy and effective? Did Danny Green lay and egg? These types of comparisons are trash. Did James have more responsibly then Curry? yes. If he went down would the Cavs roaster have a harder time filling that hole? Yes. Does that mean LeBron is better? No, but he is

I haven't seen a team play better in the playoffs than last years Spurs team in my lifetime, after game 2 against Dallas. I think their level of performance was even better than the Lakers team that lost 1 game. It was beautiful to watch.

KnicksorBust
05-15-2015, 12:54 PM
Do you know why the Warriors are 67-15? Because they are a great team overall. You don't play your starting PG 32 minutes in a season unless your team isn't blowing teams out. They are blowing teams out because they are just a great team from top to bottom. Andre Iggy for Christ's sake could start on many teams but he comes off the bench. Who comes out for Curry? Shawn Livingston (who the Heat desperately wanted for their starting PG). Harrison Barnes has the ability to score 16 PPG EASY. David Lee was out and you get a DPOY candidate in Draymond Green. The simple fact is, James carrying that team to 66 wins is an extraordinary feat. Are the Warriors a better team than those Cavs? Definitely. But you could not tell me any player today could have carried that team to 66 wins with that exact team/conference/division. That's not happening.

I take issue with the bolded. Curry's "greatness" isn't as impressive as past LeBron because his 67 wins came on a great team. His "greatness" isn't as impressive as past LeBron because he only played 33 minutes per game. People set such stringent descriptions of what is greatness. It's the same problem that I have with people discrediting Phil Jackson's rings. There has to be a level of success where you just have to raise your hands and say "fine you win." There's not enough excuses in the world that could convince me Curry, the Warriors, and Phil Jackson (yes I'm lumping them all together) were "lucky" in anything that they did. They were too successful. The reason Curry "only" played 33 mpg was because he was so incredibly efficient and successful that his teams got to rest him. In my opinion that is even more impressive. That an MVP player can lead his team to 67 wins and be so dominant that he doesn't even need to play 40mpg.

flea
05-15-2015, 12:58 PM
hello?

(echo...)

that's what i thought

Hi, Mr. James just got done shooting below 40% for a series, including an unsightly 10.7% from 3 (on nearly 5 attempts per game, to boot). He chipped in 4.5 TO per game as well. He went ahead and pulled an Allen Iverson (30 PPG on 38% from the field but a much more tolerable 33% from on 5.4 attempts in his 2002 one and done) but he was lucky enough to have a way better team than AI.

Dude is declining, you can't look at his numbers as well as his play throughout the year (and especially playoffs) and think otherwise. He can't get to the rim like he used to and defenders are much more able to crowd him and get tips than in his prime. His jumpshot is about the same it always was, it's just that it's not wide-open all the time anymore. Even Michael declined at 30 - go look at his numbers. He was also lucky to have a very good team around him, in addition to possessing an old man's game. And let's not even start on the defensive difference.

FlashBolt
05-15-2015, 01:21 PM
I take issue with the bolded. Curry's "greatness" isn't as impressive as past LeBron because his 67 wins came on a great team. His "greatness" isn't as impressive as past LeBron because he only played 33 minutes per game. People set such stringent descriptions of what is greatness. It's the same problem that I have with people discrediting Phil Jackson's rings. There has to be a level of success where you just have to raise your hands and say "fine you win." There's not enough excuses in the world that could convince me Curry, the Warriors, and Phil Jackson (yes I'm lumping them all together) were "lucky" in anything that they did. They were too successful. The reason Curry "only" played 33 mpg was because he was so incredibly efficient and successful that his teams got to rest him. In my opinion that is even more impressive. That an MVP player can lead his team to 67 wins and be so dominant that he doesn't even need to play 40mpg.

I'll cut to the chase and make it simple. Are the Warriors this season going to beat LeBron's Cavs that won 66 games? Yes. Because of Curry? NO. Because his team is crazy good. Your fifth option is Andre Iggy. That guy would be a 2nd option for LeBron's Cavs... I don't need to drag this further. Steph Curry is a huge part of the Warriors but you can not tell me for a second that he has no help the way James had practically zero.

Chronz
05-15-2015, 01:38 PM
Lol. I don't understand these guys man. Winning a championship is basketball's ultimate accomplishment, but winning 66 wins as your team's 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th option it's more impressive than winning a title with great teammates. As in it takes more skill and it's more difficult as an individual to do.
It is tho

Chronz
05-15-2015, 01:41 PM
Can you explain why winning 66 games is more of an acomplishment than winning a championship? Since when did winning 66 games mean more for a player than that same person winning a ring, teams win 66 games and teams win championships, LeBron could do neither by himself.

Secondly you guys are stating that winning 66 games is more of a accomplishment than winning a ring. My question to you is, if LeBron would have won the ring the year they won 66 games, what would be looked at in higher regard the 66 wins or the championship?

It makes no sense that 66 wins means more than a championship to an individual, they both require their respective teams to accomplish either feat. This is a dumb argument and you guys are reaching..

I can explain easily but it's up to you to identify the facts that it CAN happen

Chronz
05-15-2015, 01:43 PM
Oh FC, leave it to you to try and slice it up to make it seem logical. He said that him taking a trash to to a 66 win record is more impressive than any of his rings. One of the worst statements I've ever heard, worse than my sig. Your explanation covers nothing said in his post. Now go away.

Go away? Then ffs stop trying to make me add u. Stop trolling bro