PDA

View Full Version : How much does Middleton get paid this year?



Chronz
05-08-2015, 07:06 PM
We're gonna have an interesting Free Agency this year, so many teams will have cap space and they'll want to use it before the game changing free agency the following year. Here we have a player in the mold of prime Battier, a guy whos meager per game averages belie his elite 2-way efficiency and even Battier was given a contract that confounded some. But the landscape has changed, more and more teams have caught up with the analytic movement and value players like him more than ever before. Hes also a RFA so you just know teams are gonna have to throw the bank at him to make Milwaukee flinch.

flea
05-08-2015, 07:10 PM
I think he gets $13-16 million per annum and I think he's worth it, from what I've seen. Don't know that I'd put him on Battier's level quite yet but he has the versatility of a Battier and is probably a better offensive player overall. His market is huge because he is so versatile and if you're not saving up your cap for starz he is a fine addition to every team. Versatility on both sides of the floor is underrated, but not anymore when all teams look to go to more positionless basketball offensively and defensively, if they can.

TheNumber37
05-08-2015, 07:23 PM
Steph Curry Money - 11 Mill

xbrackattackx
05-08-2015, 07:29 PM
12-14 per will look like a steal next season when the cap rises. I think him and the Bucks will stay together. Unless somebody throws stupid money at him, not 100% sure of a young max.

beasted86
05-08-2015, 07:32 PM
I think he gets $13-16 million per annum and I think he's worth it, from what I've seen. Don't know that I'd put him on Battier's level quite yet but he has the versatility of a Battier and is probably a better offensive player overall. His market is huge because he is so versatile and if you're not saving up your cap for starz he is a fine addition to every team. Versatility on both sides of the floor is underrated, but not anymore when all teams look to go to more positionless basketball offensively and defensively, if they can.

I think he gets 12-14, but disagree with his potential market being huge.

This is the wrong summer to be a free agent. Not many team's have 12M+ in cap space. Next summer they will, but this off-season, just off the top of my head, excluding his home team Bucks... Celtics, Nuggets, 76ers, Magic, Lakers, Knicks? Maybe Pistons?

And you can immediately scratch half that list for known reasons, IE: Knicks-already with Carmelo, 76ers not spending yet, Magic likely resigning Harris instead of hunting FA, etc.

Realistically there are about 2 teams from above that would look at him outside the Bucks if that's his asking price.

numba1CHANGsta
05-08-2015, 07:37 PM
One good year and you people are already giving him a max contract LOL

Sportfan
05-08-2015, 07:50 PM
Woahh....16M From who? Butler, Green, Leonard, Tobias, Jef Green, Millsap, hell Josh Smith, there's a lot of depth at the wing position. Middleton is VERY underrated really solid 2 way player but that wouldn't be the case at 16M.

Parsons got 15M per, his stock last year was higher than Middleton's right now, and many thought he was getting overpaid. I see Middleton getting around 4/48

flea
05-08-2015, 07:52 PM
I think he gets 12-14, but disagree with his potential market being huge.

This is the wrong summer to be a free agent. Not many team's have 12M+ in cap space. Next summer they will, but this off-season, just off the top of my head, excluding his home team Bucks... Celtics, Nuggets, 76ers, Magic, Lakers, Knicks? Maybe Pistons?

And you can immediately scratch half that list for known reasons, IE: Knicks-already with Carmelo, 76ers not spending yet, Magic likely resigning Harris instead of hunting FA, etc.

Realistically there are about 2 teams from above that would look at him outside the Bucks if that's his asking price.

I don't really study the cap situations of teams but I would imagine at least 15-20 teams have room to sign him at or around $15 million per, and I disagree that his market won't be big. Even rebuilding teams want someone like him because he will fit no matter what you do and he will improve your team.

If the Sixers think drafting trash every year is eventually going to lead to a Steph Curry wanting to come play for them then they're in for a rude awakening. I actually don't think that's their mindset, though, and he'd be a great addition for team with a lot of room but no where to spend it. A) he fits with every type of team B) he's just entering his prime C) he will be tradeable in almost all situations except for injury.

KnicksorBust
05-08-2015, 08:06 PM
Damn I know the cap is going up but I do not know if I want to commit that much to Middleton. Does he get much more than Demarre Carroll?

Sportfan
05-08-2015, 08:15 PM
Damn I know the cap is going up but I do not know if I want to commit that much to Middleton. Does he get much more than Demarre Carroll?

The max contract for players with 6 or less years is 15M so yeah, these are some crazy numbers being thrown out.

He's worth more than Caroll because Middleton is an investment type signing with his youth. But he has had 1 good half season so far, that shouldn't get you a max contract.

Chronz
05-08-2015, 08:23 PM
One good year and you people are already giving him a max contract LOL

What do you think Whiteside would command after this year?

numba1CHANGsta
05-08-2015, 08:40 PM
What do you think Whiteside would command after this year?

Of course all of these guys are gonna command as much money as they want, but would you rather pay Whiteside 12-15 mil/yr or Jordan/Gasol for 12-15 mil?

bucketss
05-08-2015, 09:00 PM
Of course all of these guys are gonna command as much money as they want, but would you rather pay Whiteside 12-15 mil/yr or Jordan/Gasol for 12-15 mil?

jordan/gasol will probably get maxed out.

Cal827
05-08-2015, 09:04 PM
Probably the middle road: about 12-14 million.

Want the Raptors to at least take a look at. Guy can defend well and can get his shots/stats on the offensive fronts and Milwaukee will probably not go to extremes to match since they have Jabari and Giannis for the SG/SF positions.

5ass
05-08-2015, 09:31 PM
Woahh....16M From who? Butler, Green, Leonard, Tobias, Jef Green, Millsap, hell Josh Smith, there's a lot of depth at the wing position. Middleton is VERY underrated really solid 2 way player but that wouldn't be the case at 16M.

Parsons got 15M per, his stock last year was higher than Middleton's right now, and many thought he was getting overpaid. I see Middleton getting around 4/48
3 of those guys you listed are RFA with teams willing to match anything. Butler, Leonard, Millsap are most probably off the table. If I'm the Magic I'll offer Middleton the max over Tobias for sure. If I'm any other team, I'd probably also do the same.

GiantsSwaGG
05-08-2015, 09:48 PM
Woahh....16M From who? Butler, Green, Leonard, Tobias, Jef Green, Millsap, hell Josh Smith, there's a lot of depth at the wing position. Middleton is VERY underrated really solid 2 way player but that wouldn't be the case at 16M.

Parsons got 15M per, his stock last year was higher than Middleton's right now, and many thought he was getting overpaid. I see Middleton getting around 4/48

That's how much it's going to take the Bucks not to match the offer

Chronz
05-08-2015, 10:20 PM
Of course all of these guys are gonna command as much money as they want, but would you rather pay Whiteside 12-15 mil/yr or Jordan/Gasol for 12-15 mil?

I honestly dont know. Isn't that the gamble of FA?

D-Leethal
05-08-2015, 10:49 PM
As a Knick fan I am throwing 4 years 60 mill at him and not blinking. As an RFA, we will have to blow MIL out of the water if we want to snag him. 12M per isn't stealing him away from the Bucks. Not sure 15M will either but thats the type of offer anyone serious about snatching him will have to put on the table.

beasted86
05-09-2015, 07:23 AM
I don't really study the cap situations of teams but I would imagine at least 15-20 teams have room to sign him at or around $15 million per, and I disagree that his market won't be big. Even rebuilding teams want someone like him because he will fit no matter what you do and he will improve your team.

If the Sixers think drafting trash every year is eventually going to lead to a Steph Curry wanting to come play for them then they're in for a rude awakening. I actually don't think that's their mindset, though, and he'd be a great addition for team with a lot of room but no where to spend it. A) he fits with every type of team B) he's just entering his prime C) he will be tradeable in almost all situations except for injury.

You imagine 20 out of the 30 teams have $15M in cap space this summer (not next summer)?

You're WAY off.

Ty22Mitchell
05-09-2015, 07:30 AM
As a Knick fan I am throwing 4 years 60 mill at him and not blinking. As an RFA, we will have to blow MIL out of the water if we want to snag him. 12M per isn't stealing him away from the Bucks. Not sure 15M will either but thats the type of offer anyone serious about snatching him will have to put on the table.

All jokes aside I feel that's what the Knicks problem has been for the last 10 to 15 years; throwing money at high risk/high reward FA's.

Ty22Mitchell
05-09-2015, 07:36 AM
Middleton will get his 15 mil per. There are to few top/middle-top FA's for him not to. Scarcity always drives up the price, and some "have not" is going to pay that price based on his potential.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
05-09-2015, 09:44 AM
Probably the middle road: about 12-14 million.

Want the Raptors to at least take a look at. Guy can defend well and can get his shots/stats on the offensive fronts and Milwaukee will probably not go to extremes to match since they have Jabari and Giannis for the SG/SF positions.

Middleton played the majority of his minutes at SG this season. Parker is PF and Giannis SF and can play back up PF. Bucks are $29M under luxury tax line. From a few articles I read Middleton's max offer he can receive is 4/$67M. That's a bargain when you factor in the cap will balloon up. So few years down the road it be like Middleton only getting $10M according to what the cap is now and then from new TV deal. So all in all Bucks can hurry and try and lure in a decent player with near baby max money of $15M and still match all offers to Middleton.

Even if we go over luxury tax new owners will since all three owners are billionaires and getting a new arena soon so we want a decent product on the floor. Not sure if we land anyone with $15M. But the weak east and to play with Giannis and Parker and MCW and Middleton and one of the deepest benches in the league. Its not to shabby. Also Kidd as coach.

D-Leethal
05-09-2015, 10:15 AM
All jokes aside I feel that's what the Knicks problem has been for the last 10 to 15 years; throwing money at high risk/high reward FA's.

I don't see the risk in a 24 yr old budding 2 way SG who is already one of the best at his position in the league and doesn't look like he's stopping anytime soon.

nycericanguy
05-09-2015, 10:41 AM
Middleton played the majority of his minutes at SG this season. Parker is PF and Giannis SF and can play back up PF. Bucks are $29M under luxury tax line. From a few articles I read Middleton's max offer he can receive is 4/$67M. That's a bargain when you factor in the cap will balloon up. So few years down the road it be like Middleton only getting $10M according to what the cap is now and then from new TV deal. So all in all Bucks can hurry and try and lure in a decent player with near baby max money of $15M and still match all offers to Middleton.

Even if we go over luxury tax new owners will since all three owners are billionaires and getting a new arena soon so we want a decent product on the floor. Not sure if we land anyone with $15M. But the weak east and to play with Giannis and Parker and MCW and Middleton and one of the deepest benches in the league. Its not to shabby. Also Kidd as coach.

lol let's not get carried away now, he finished the year strong but just a couple of months ago alot of people thought even $10m was way too much for him.

If I were a Bucks fan I would be pissed if they ended up having to max him, but as a Knick fan I think that's the only realistic way to have a chance at him... it's a big overpay though, let's not sit here and say it's a bargain just because the cap is going up. He's not at the Butler/Khawi level, those guys will get the same contracts, and those guys would be a bargain. But $17m for Middleton is an overpay no matter how you spin it.

The deal will look better in the last 2 years when the cap goes to 108, but the first two years, and especially the 1st will be big overpay.

nycericanguy
05-09-2015, 10:47 AM
All jokes aside I feel that's what the Knicks problem has been for the last 10 to 15 years; throwing money at high risk/high reward FA's.

Nah their problem has been chasing past their prime stars and trading picks.

Middleton isn't high risk... Middleton + Monroe + a top pick would be a breath of fresh air.

Cal827
05-09-2015, 12:05 PM
Middleton played the majority of his minutes at SG this season. Parker is PF and Giannis SF and can play back up PF. Bucks are $29M under luxury tax line. From a few articles I read Middleton's max offer he can receive is 4/$67M. That's a bargain when you factor in the cap will balloon up. So few years down the road it be like Middleton only getting $10M according to what the cap is now and then from new TV deal. So all in all Bucks can hurry and try and lure in a decent player with near baby max money of $15M and still match all offers to Middleton.

Even if we go over luxury tax new owners will since all three owners are billionaires and getting a new arena soon so we want a decent product on the floor. Not sure if we land anyone with $15M. But the weak east and to play with Giannis and Parker and MCW and Middleton and one of the deepest benches in the league. Its not to shabby. Also Kidd as coach.

My apologies, for some reason I thought that Jabari was a SF/SG swingman. Well, that changes my opinion. Don't think the Bucks will let him get out of their sights. They can build a contender from the 3 they have, and as much as Kidd is an ***hole, hes seems to be a damn good coach.

one thing that I am going to be curious of this off-season with some of these guys heading into RFA (not just Middleton), is if any of them will just sign a qualifying offer, and risk a season, to break the bank next season with the cap numbers jumping.

InRoseWeTrust
05-09-2015, 12:08 PM
Somewhere between 8-10 a year

gatkins11
05-09-2015, 12:14 PM
jordan/gasol will probably get maxed out.

^^^

nycericanguy
05-09-2015, 12:31 PM
My apologies, for some reason I thought that Jabari was a SF/SG swingman. Well, that changes my opinion. Don't think the Bucks will let him get out of their sights. They can build a contender from the 3 they have, and as much as Kidd is an ***hole, hes seems to be a damn good coach.

one thing that I am going to be curious of this off-season with some of these guys heading into RFA (not just Middleton), is if any of them will just sign a qualifying offer, and risk a season, to break the bank next season with the cap numbers jumping.

seriously doubt it, wont be worth it.

Middleton's QO is like 1m, he would be losing at 10-15m right off the bat in year 1.

Even with the cap going up he's not going to get more than 16m or so, unless someone paid him like $20-22m per year he would never recoup that initial 10-15m loss in year 1.

And that's not factoring in the injury/performance risk.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
05-09-2015, 12:41 PM
lol let's not get carried away now, he finished the year strong but just a couple of months ago alot of people thought even $10m was way too much for him.

If I were a Bucks fan I would be pissed if they ended up having to max him, but as a Knick fan I think that's the only realistic way to have a chance at him... it's a big overpay though, let's not sit here and say it's a bargain just because the cap is going up. He's not at the Butler/Khawi level, those guys will get the same contracts, and those guys would be a bargain. But $17m for Middleton is an overpay no matter how you spin it.

The deal will look better in the last 2 years when the cap goes to 108, but the first two years, and especially the 1st will be big overpay.

Current cap its a bit over paying. But not many 6'8" SG's that are 3 and D at young age of 23. But like ya said down the road its gonna happen to a lot of teams over paying just to get up to minimum cap apon. Factor in Bucks have $15M in actually money to spend before we match all offers sheets to Middleton. Also under $29M below luxury tax line. Also factor in after next season $8M Mayo, $7.9M Ersan, $3M Bayless, Dudley $4.25M,$5.2M Zaza all expire. That's another good $28M. Ersan year after next is $8.4M but only $400K guaranteed. So more less a expiring with the rest. Bucks sitting pretty with a core of Giannis,Parker, Middleton.

nycericanguy
05-09-2015, 12:45 PM
Current cap its a bit over paying. But not many 6'8" SG's that are 3 and D at young age of 23. But like ya said down the road its gonna happen to a lot of teams over paying just to get up to minimum cap apon. Factor in Bucks have $15M in actually money to spend before we match all offers sheets to Middleton. Also under $29M below luxury tax line. Also factor in after next season $8M Mayo, $7.9M Ersan, $3M Bayless, Dudley $4.25M,$5.2M Zaza all expire. That's another good $28M. Ersan year after next is $8.4M but only $400K guaranteed. So more less a expiring with the rest. Bucks sitting pretty with a core of Giannis,Parker, Middleton.

agree, add in MCW too. I think Giannis will be a top 10 player soon. He's an animal.

That being said, Middleton at MAX is an overpay, can't really try to spin it. But the only way to get a RFA is to overpay through the nose so... MIL has the money though, every team has money now really, no more small markets.

Whats up with Erson? Is he the odd man out? I think he'd be a good fit in NY, if MIL wanted to unload him NY could absorb his salary outright, maybe send a 2nd rounder to MIL and a big TPE.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
05-09-2015, 01:05 PM
This could be the year Ersan finally dealt. He's the last long hold over. Nets had a thing for Ersan last 5 years. Bucks trading for Kidd stopped all trade for a year with Nets. But this is lifted now. Rockets wanted him for Asik But we didn't want the poison pill contract. Then Pelicans step up and took Asik. Pacers wanted Ersan back before they signed West. Larry Bird loves Ersan. Also Kings had interests in Ersan as stretch 4 to pair up with Cousins. But Bucks didn't want Thompson or Landry's bad contracts.

Wizards wanted a stretch 4 as well before last draft. Not sure the Bucks would just salary dump Ersan. Unless some big free agent already has a promise to sign. Other wise Bucks could get a high second rounder or maybe even a late first. Hard to say. Kidd did say he will leave the draft up to GM John Hammond. But Kidd said he will have a free agents list and he will circle some he wants.

Also factor in the Bucks as one of the teams that trade at least three times a year. We usually got a tiny trade going moving around in second round in the draft. Then late summer we make a roster change then trade deadline were always one of the teams making noise.

nycericanguy
05-09-2015, 01:13 PM
Knicks could trade Thannis to play with his brother for Earson, that would be interesting.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
05-09-2015, 01:43 PM
Not sure if Bucks are in a hurry to pair up the brothers. We had 3 chances to draft him. Passed over him all 3 times. Maybe cause we seen Knicks go on the fritz once JR Smith had a spiff with his bro being waived. Also look at Suns Morris twins. They got into some trouble.

bleedprple&gold
05-09-2015, 02:15 PM
My apologies, for some reason I thought that Jabari was a SF/SG swingman. Well, that changes my opinion. Don't think the Bucks will let him get out of their sights. They can build a contender from the 3 they have, and as much as Kidd is an ***hole, hes seems to be a damn good coach.

one thing that I am going to be curious of this off-season with some of these guys heading into RFA (not just Middleton), is if any of them will just sign a qualifying offer, and risk a season, to break the bank next season with the cap numbers jumping.

seriously doubt it, wont be worth it.

Middleton's QO is like 1m, he would be losing at 10-15m right off the bat in year 1.

Even with the cap going up he's not going to get more than 16m or so, unless someone paid him like $20-22m per year he would never recoup that initial 10-15m loss in year 1.

And that's not factoring in the injury/performance risk.

This. Middleton is only possibly a max player now because the cap is jumping so he will technically only be a max player for one year, then his contract would be more reasonable. Taking the QO will only lose him money because he will not get the new max when the cap goes up.

flea
05-09-2015, 03:52 PM
You imagine 20 out of the 30 teams have $15M in cap space this summer (not next summer)?

You're WAY off.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/

I count 15 teams that are definitely going to have $15 million to spend next year, and another handful (like Pels) within striking distance if they move guys. Like I said, I don't study this stuff so if this is wrong somehow let me know but it sure does look like there is cash to spend.

Ty22Mitchell
05-09-2015, 04:17 PM
I don't see the risk in a 24 yr old budding 2 way SG who is already one of the best at his position in the league and doesn't look like he's stopping anytime soon.

You and Ny Guy are right. All the guys I were thinking about were acquired via trade, or where sign and traded.

David Lee
Jerome James
Marbary (sp?)
Eddie Curry
David Lee


Maybe it's just my mentality, but I'm leary of signing anyone who isn't a max contract player. I don't believe in paying role players, their price isn't worth their value (my kobe-shaq fandom may be clouding my judgement though, lol.).

Blitzace137
05-09-2015, 04:51 PM
If I'm Phil I'd offer Middleton the same contract that Parsons got and see if the Bucks match.

Sportfan
05-09-2015, 05:50 PM
3 of those guys you listed are RFA with teams willing to match anything. Butler, Leonard, Millsap are most probably off the table. If I'm the Magic I'll offer Middleton the max over Tobias for sure. If I'm any other team, I'd probably also do the same.


That's how much it's going to take the Bucks not to match the offer

Nope. The Bucks would be stupid to pay the guy 4/67. Middleton is a good player but he's not a franchise guy. Giannis and Parker are easily more valuable to the team and they will need contracts 2-3 years down the line, most likely max level money. Henson will need a new contract after next year, and you could argue he's more valuable to the team than Middleton since they don't have depth at big men.

Middleton was a 3 year starter in college and is in his 3rd year. Is there really that much untapped potential there? Parker and Giannis have a lot more and they'll take up most of the minutes at the wing spots. He's a very good role player but his ceiling is Wes Matthews type player. He's not an all star. Any team paying the max is making a mistake.

Sportfan
05-09-2015, 05:57 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/

I count 15 teams that are definitely going to have $15 million to spend next year, and another handful (like Pels) within striking distance if they move guys. Like I said, I don't study this stuff so if this is wrong somehow let me know but it sure does look like there is cash to spend.

The thing is, you only offically have that cap space when you release the rights of players and their bird years.So for example the Grizzlies are listed at 50M cap next year which is about 10M cap space, but they will hold Gasol's bird rights to resign him so they won't actually have 10M cap space UNLESS Gasol signs somewhere else and they release their rights. Blazers are another team affected like this.

So the teams with actual cap space right out of the gate is less. Looks like Sixers, Spurs, Knicks, Magic, Celtics, Pistons, Bucks, Suns, and maybe Raptors who will have at least 10M cap space to throw at FA's from other teams

beasted86
05-09-2015, 06:13 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/

I count 15 teams that are definitely going to have $15 million to spend next year, and another handful (like Pels) within striking distance if they move guys. Like I said, I don't study this stuff so if this is wrong somehow let me know but it sure does look like there is cash to spend.

To answer whether it's correct, yes and no.

For example, the Spurs have Parker, Splitter, Diaw and just a handful of guys under contract next season. Theoretically they could let Duncan, Kawhi, Manu and every other free agent they have walk away and have $30M+ in cap space, sure... in theory it's right, but its not practical. They aren't letting every single free agent leave. Realistically they will try and bring most the core back.

This type of scenario is present for a lot of teams on the list that have free agents that will likely be resigned and has a cap hold anyway. Others on the list are yet to be updated after trades. Also, back to cap holds... numbers on the list don't account for draft picks which may be significant. The first overall pick for example will eat up about $6M in cap for whoever gets that spot.