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ILLUSIONIST^248
05-05-2015, 11:22 AM
Id like to start off by saying this is not bait thread, this is just what has been given to us over the years so please don't ruin this thread.


I think most of us can agree that the Cavs are not winning the ship this year. Since Lebron is on the decline he can not carry this team all the way. The main point I wanted to make is Lebron has only been able to win the ship with one of the best teams of all time, while playing in the weakest division in history. Lebron deserves full credit for his first ring since he dominated but a lot have forgotten that the Spurs choked away his second ring and he needed the greatest shot in history to help him win. I think we've seen the last time Lebron hoisting a trophy over his head. As time goes on I think people will start to realize how overrated he was. Sure he puts up great stats but when it comes to the end result Lebron will be the one of the few in the top 15 with so little rings. He's had a fantastic career but I think a lot of people have over rated him and will realize they did by the time he retires.

MonroeFAN
05-05-2015, 11:24 AM
First, this is really stupid.

Second, I'm not surprised you made the topic at all.

A mod will close this hopefully, you're not worthy of topic space.

xxplayerxx23
05-05-2015, 11:24 AM
Is this serious :sigh:

koreancabbage
05-05-2015, 11:25 AM
great to know.

Jordan won with one or indeed the best team in history
Kobe and Shaq won with one of the best teams in history
Duncan won with the best and deepest teams in history last year.

i don't get what you're saying.

bleedprple&gold
05-05-2015, 11:26 AM
When you start off a thread by saying it's not a bait thread, that means it's a bait thread.

Hawkeye15
05-05-2015, 11:27 AM
How many rings does Wilt have? He is a top 3 player ever. How bout Dream? Top 10 ever, easily.

Basketball is a team sport. It's not how many rings you have, it's how you play in the playoffs. An individual only has so much control.

Can someone give me a single series that LeBron has won, where he didn't need to be easily his teams best player? How many all timers have been able to have a subpar series and know they will get hammered each and every time?

valade16
05-05-2015, 11:27 AM
Id like to start off by saying this is not bait thread, this is just what has been given to us over the years so please don't ruin this thread.


I think most of us can agree that the Cavs are not winning the ship this year. Since Lebron is on the decline he can not carry this team all the way. The main point I wanted to make is Lebron has only been able to win the ship with one of the best teams of all time, while playing in the weakest division in history. Lebron deserves full credit for his first ring since he dominated but a lot have forgotten that the Spurs choked away his second ring and he needed the greatest shot in history to help him win. I think we've seen the last time Lebron hoisting a trophy over his head. As time goes on I think people will start to realize how overrated he was. Sure he puts up great stats but when it comes to the end result Lebron will be the one of the few in the top 15 with so little rings. He's had a fantastic career but I think a lot of people have over rated him and will realize they did by the time he retires.

I'd like to go on record as saying I will laugh my *** off if they win it this year.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-05-2015, 11:28 AM
great to know.

Jordan won with one or indeed the best team in history
Kobe and Shaq won with one of the best teams in history
Duncan won with the best and deepest teams in history last year.

i don't get what you're saying.

True, but they all have at least double the rings of Lebron.

Hawkeye15
05-05-2015, 11:29 AM
True, but they all have at least double the rings of Lebron.

and triple the roster support...

xxplayerxx23
05-05-2015, 11:29 AM
True, but they all have at least double the rings of Lebron.


Lebron retiring at the end of the year?

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-05-2015, 11:29 AM
Id like to start off by saying this is not bait thread, this is just what has been given to us over the years so please don't ruin this thread.


I think most of us can agree that the Cavs are not winning the ship this year. Since Lebron is on the decline he can not carry this team all the way. The main point I wanted to make is Lebron has only been able to win the ship with one of the best teams of all time, while playing in the weakest division in history. Lebron deserves full credit for his first ring since he dominated but a lot have forgotten that the Spurs choked away his second ring and he needed the greatest shot in history to help him win. I think we've seen the last time Lebron hoisting a trophy over his head. As time goes on I think people will start to realize how overrated he was. Sure he puts up great stats but when it comes to the end result Lebron will be the one of the few in the top 15 with so little rings. He's had a fantastic career but I think a lot of people have over rated him and will realize they did by the time he retires.

I'd like to go on record as saying I will laugh my *** off if they win it this year.

Account bet?

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-05-2015, 11:30 AM
True, but they all have at least double the rings of Lebron.

and triple the roster support...

Lol yeah right, that excuse has been exhausted. Lebron has plentyyyyyy of help.

xxplayerxx23
05-05-2015, 11:32 AM
It's people like this that make me want Lebron to win this year :puke:

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-05-2015, 11:34 AM
It's people like this that make me want Lebron to win this year :puke:

Good luck, I wouldn't hold you breath.

koreancabbage
05-05-2015, 11:35 AM
True, but they all have at least double the rings of Lebron.

Jordan won his first at the same age Lebron won his first ring I believe.

Kobe won his first ring as 'the man' in his early 30s

the argument takes nothing into regard, as the OP usually does. as well as being a bait thread even though he baits it with his ignorance as usual

Chronz
05-05-2015, 11:35 AM
Lol yeah right, that excuse has been exhausted. Lebron has plentyyyyyy of help.
Not like those guys.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-05-2015, 11:38 AM
True, but they all have at least double the rings of Lebron.

Jordan won his first at the same age Lebron won his first ring I believe.

Kobe won his first ring as 'the man' in his early 30s

the argument takes nothing into regard, as the OP usually does. as well as being a bait thread even though he baits it with his ignorance as usual

Lebron will and is already declining more than those guys. Plus he needs to be the overwhelming favorite to win, as his history has implied.

Hawkeye15
05-05-2015, 11:39 AM
Lol yeah right, that excuse has been exhausted. Lebron has plentyyyyyy of help.

not in the same realm as the 3 you listed

Tony_Starks
05-05-2015, 11:40 AM
How many rings does Wilt have? He is a top 3 player ever. How bout Dream? Top 10 ever, easily.

Basketball is a team sport. It's not how many rings you have, it's how you play in the playoffs. An individual only has so much control.

Can someone give me a single series that LeBron has won, where he didn't need to be easily his teams best player? How many all timers have been able to have a subpar series and know they will get hammered each and every time?

When Bird and Magic had subpar series they lost, and that's with a hall of fame supporting cast i.e. Magic bricking free throws and turning over the ball in the clutch vs Boston in '84.When they won chips it was with them playing out of their minds like rookie Magic with no Kareem, Magic hitting the game winning shot or Bird out-dueling a on fire Dominique Wilkins or stealing the ball at a pivotal junction.

Superstars are the best players on the court when you need them to be, that's why they go in the top 10. Lebron gets the same expectations as everyone else, sorry this is nothing new.

No passes given.

Teeboy1487
05-05-2015, 11:42 AM
Don't you ladies ever get tired of arguing about Lebron and Kobe? That's so 2009.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-05-2015, 11:44 AM
Don't you ladies ever get tired of arguing about Lebron and Kobe? That's so 2009.

This thread has nothing to do with Kobe but they'll slip him in here as usual.

curtcocaine
05-05-2015, 11:45 AM
Lebron will and is already declining more than those guys. Plus he needs to be the overwhelming favorite to win, as his history has implied.
Name a team Lebron gose to where he isn't the main focal point, while being a top four playoff team.

ABOMB_56
05-05-2015, 11:45 AM
Tell me more about how the level of help Lebron has received is on par with Kobe/Jordan/Duncan
http://www.sbnation.com/2015/5/5/8551329/lebron-james-cleveland-cavaliers-nba-playoffs-history

Chronz
05-05-2015, 11:47 AM
When Bird and Magic had subpar series they lost, and that's with a hall of fame supporting cast i.e. Magic bricking free throws and turning over the ball in the clutch vs Boston in '84.When they won chips it was with them playing out of their minds like rookie Magic with no Kareem, Magic hitting the game winning shot or Bird out-dueling a on fire Dominique Wilkins or stealing the ball at a pivotal junction.

Superstars are the best players on the court when you need them to be, that's why they go in the top 10. Lebron gets the same expectations as everyone else, sorry this is nothing new.

No passes given.
bird didn't win that year iirc
Just sayin

yungincome
05-05-2015, 11:48 AM
:facepalm:

nickdymez
05-05-2015, 11:49 AM
All I know is that it's the same thing with Lebron more times than not. And when he doesn't win, it's always his teams fault. He looked terrible last night. Awful. It seems like he tries to pad his advanced stats or something. Why does he pass the ball so much in situations where he should be looking to attack? Anyway, this is PSD'S favorite player so he can do no wrong

Chronz
05-05-2015, 11:50 AM
This thread has nothing to do with Kobe but they'll slip him in here as usual.
According to ur op, it has to do with all top 15 players so obviously They will be mentioned

Chronz
05-05-2015, 11:51 AM
All I know is that it's the same thing with Lebron more times than not. And when he doesn't win, it's always his teams fault. He looked terrible last night. Awful. It seems like he tries to pad his advanced stats or something. Why does he pass the ball so much in situations where he should be looking to attack? Anyway, this is PSD'S favorite player so he can do no wrong
Haha right. Because attacking n chucking shots definitely doesn't improve stats.

nickdymez
05-05-2015, 11:51 AM
When Bird and Magic had subpar series they lost, and that's with a hall of fame supporting cast i.e. Magic bricking free throws and turning over the ball in the clutch vs Boston in '84.When they won chips it was with them playing out of their minds like rookie Magic with no Kareem, Magic hitting the game winning shot or Bird out-dueling a on fire Dominique Wilkins or stealing the ball at a pivotal junction.

Superstars are the best players on the court when you need them to be, that's why they go in the top 10. Lebron gets the same expectations as everyone else, sorry this is nothing new.

No passes given.
This is exactly my point when I'm critical of him. His numbers are always good, but he seems to have a very subpar ability to take over a game in crunch time.

Hawkeye15
05-05-2015, 11:53 AM
When Bird and Magic had subpar series they lost, and that's with a hall of fame supporting cast i.e. Magic bricking free throws and turning over the ball in the clutch vs Boston in '84.When they won chips it was with them playing out of their minds like rookie Magic with no Kareem, Magic hitting the game winning shot or Bird out-dueling a on fire Dominique Wilkins or stealing the ball at a pivotal junction.

Superstars are the best players on the court when you need them to be, that's why they go in the top 10. Lebron gets the same expectations as everyone else, sorry this is nothing new.

No passes given.

you missed the point. Magic and Bird also won series when they weren't on their "A" game. LeBron has never had that luxury. Hell Kobe is given all this credit for his rings, when in 3 of them, at least, he clearly wasn't even the best player on his own team. LeBron has never had that luxury. Ever.

koreancabbage
05-05-2015, 11:53 AM
Lebron will and is already declining more than those guys. Plus he needs to be the overwhelming favorite to win, as his history has implied.

doesn't mean he won't win more rings....

Ty22Mitchell
05-05-2015, 11:54 AM
I don't get why LeBron is so polarizing and why people are always "hating" on the guy. In my younger days I could kind of understand the public's dislike of Kobe, but LeBron has legitimately done nothing to deserve the flack he gets. Is is that he changed teams? I'm a Laker's fan and I root against Dwight sometimes, but I don't dislike him; in fact I want him to rise above himself and prove me wrong. Maybe I'm just out of touch.

Anyone who is old enough, did Michael get this kind of hate in his prime?

nickdymez
05-05-2015, 11:55 AM
Haha right. Because attacking n chucking shots definitely doesn't improve stats.
Well he's 2 for 5 in the finals. Not to mention all the other times he was bounced when his team had the best regular season. Maybe he should start "chuckin" more.

And by the way, driving to the rim when you have a lane instead of passing to delavadova is by no means chuckin. Learn basketball and give the advanced stats a rest.

koreancabbage
05-05-2015, 11:56 AM
Well he's 2 for 5 in the finals. Not to mention all the other times he was bounced when his team had the best regular season. Maybe he should start "chuckin" more.

And by the way, driving to the rim when you have a lane instead of passing to delavadova is by no means chuckin. Learn basketball and give the advanced stats a rest.

if you know basketball then you know Lebron is better than Kobe

:)

Hawkeye15
05-05-2015, 11:57 AM
I don't get why LeBron is so polarizing and why people are always "hating" on the guy. In my younger days I could kind of understand the public's dislike of Kobe, but LeBron has legitimately done nothing to deserve the flack he gets. Is is that he changed teams? I'm a Laker's fan and I root against Dwight sometimes, but I don't dislike him; in fact I want him to rise above himself and prove me wrong. Maybe I'm just out of touch.

Anyone who is old enough, did Michael get this kind of hate in his prime?

It's the reason I started to even root for LeBron to begin with. Totally indifferent to him, until everyone just started piling on him. Um, his team sucked outside him, wtf did they want?

Jordan had a ton of haters, and if modern social media existed back then, he would have been hated more than LeBron is for sure.

MonroeFAN
05-05-2015, 12:00 PM
great to know.

Jordan won with one or indeed the best team in history
Kobe and Shaq won with one of the best teams in history
Duncan won with the best and deepest teams in history last year.

i don't get what you're saying.

True, but they all have at least double the rings of Lebron.

Discontinue speaking.

koreancabbage
05-05-2015, 12:04 PM
Discontinue speaking.

lol you're entitled to your opinion.

nickdymez
05-05-2015, 12:04 PM
It's the reason I started to even root for LeBron to begin with. Totally indifferent to him, until everyone just started piling on him. Um, his team sucked outside him, wtf did they want?

Jordan had a ton of haters, and if modern social media existed back then, he would have been hated more than LeBron is for sure.
That's definitely not true. LeBron is corny, Jordan was intense, a fierce competitor. That's kind of why people like me for instance aren't on the Lebron bandwagon as much. There's more to a great basketball player than advanced stats and bias MVP awards. Because if you have all of those accolades but lost 3 times in the finals and your team was favored 4 times, something is off in my mind.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-05-2015, 12:08 PM
Haha right. Because attacking n chucking shots definitely doesn't improve stats.
Well he's 2 for 5 in the finals. Not to mention all the other times he was bounced when his team had the best regular season. Maybe he should start "chuckin" more.

And by the way, driving to the rim when you have a lane instead of passing to delavadova is by no means chuckin. Learn basketball and give the advanced stats a rest.

Plus one

Tony_Starks
05-05-2015, 12:09 PM
When Bird and Magic had subpar series they lost, and that's with a hall of fame supporting cast i.e. Magic bricking free throws and turning over the ball in the clutch vs Boston in '84.When they won chips it was with them playing out of their minds like rookie Magic with no Kareem, Magic hitting the game winning shot or Bird out-dueling a on fire Dominique Wilkins or stealing the ball at a pivotal junction.

Superstars are the best players on the court when you need them to be, that's why they go in the top 10. Lebron gets the same expectations as everyone else, sorry this is nothing new.

No passes given.

you missed the point. Magic and Bird also won series when they weren't on their "A" game. LeBron has never had that luxury. Hell Kobe is given all this credit for his rings, when in 3 of them, at least, he clearly wasn't even the best player on his own team. LeBron has never had that luxury. Ever.

This notion that Lebron has had to be clearly the best player on the court at all times to win his 2 chips is utterly false. Before D Wade declined there was plenty of times he was the man not to mention the Ray Allen's, Millers, Battiers of the world dropping bombs all over the court and Bosh doing his thing.

But if you want to keep pushing the narrative that when he loses its because its a team sport and when he wins its because he did it singlehandedly be my guest brotha. We definitely part ways on that one.

Just know the same frustration you have with Lebron "haters" is the same way people feel about fans who religiously defend him and absolve him from any responsibility.

bucketss
05-05-2015, 12:12 PM
of course its a bait thread,

why is allens shot somehow saving lebron but lebrons 16 point 4th quarter in the same game means nothing. tell me if allen would have been in the same position if it wasn't for bron. such a weak argument that keeps getting repeated. .

Hawkeye15
05-05-2015, 12:14 PM
That's definitely not true. LeBron is corny, Jordan was intense, a fierce competitor. That's kind of why people like me for instance aren't on the Lebron bandwagon as much. There's more to a great basketball player than advanced stats and bias MVP awards. Because if you have all of those accolades but lost 3 times in the finals and your team was favored 4 times, something is off in my mind.

corny? LeBron has never done anything that puts him on d-bag level. Jordan (my fave ever) was a straight up *** hole.

I get it, same old **** with you. You judge players on their teams success, got it.

lol, please
05-05-2015, 12:15 PM
How many rings does Wilt have? He is a top 3 player ever. How bout Dream? Top 10 ever, easily.

Basketball is a team sport. It's not how many rings you have, it's how you play in the playoffs. An individual only has so much control.

Can someone give me a single series that LeBron has won, where he didn't need to be easily his teams best player? How many all timers have been able to have a subpar series and know they will get hammered each and every time?

Exactly. So Lebronites need to stop acting like he is some otherworldly X factor and like it's not a team effort. One man only has so much impact, i'm tired of hearing lebron fans and cavs fans have this "we will contend/are a thread because Lebron that's why" attitude, it's so childish and void of reality and logic.


It's the reason I started to even root for LeBron to begin with. Totally indifferent to him, until everyone just started piling on him. Um, his team sucked outside him, wtf did they want?

Jordan had a ton of haters, and if modern social media existed back then, he would have been hated more than LeBron is for sure.

Nonsense. I was around in the 90s and Jordan was loved by so many non Bulls fans it was ridiculous. I don't think i've ever met someone in my life who hated him. Again, Jordans mindset was "we didnt' want to join up with those guys, we wanted to beat them" - Jordan would have never left Chigago to build a super team.

Hawkeye15
05-05-2015, 12:16 PM
This notion that Lebron has had to be clearly the best player on the court at all times to win his 2 chips is utterly false. Before D Wade declined there was plenty of times he was the man not to mention the Ray Allen's, Millers, Battiers of the world dropping bombs all over the court and Bosh doing his thing.

But if you want to keep pushing the narrative that when he loses its because its a team sport and when he wins its because he did it singlehandedly be my guest brotha. We definitely part ways on that one.

Just know the same frustration you have with Lebron "haters" is the same way people feel about fans who religiously defend him and absolve him from any responsibility.

The notion that LeBron has to be clearly the best player throughout a series for his team to win is an absolute fact. I can't think of a single series where that isn't true.

Chronz
05-05-2015, 12:16 PM
Well he's 2 for 5 in the finals. Not to mention all the other times he was bounced when his team had the best regular season. Maybe he should start "chuckin" more.

And by the way, driving to the rim when you have a lane instead of passing to delavadova is by no means chuckin. Learn basketball and give the advanced stats a rest.
2 for 5 is suppose to be a diss? And btw, you improve ur advance stats by scoring and winning more than anything so learn the stats you claim players try to inflate. I know more about the game than you ever will so illl pass on ur advice

Hawkeye15
05-05-2015, 12:16 PM
Exactly. So Lebronites need to stop acting like he is some otherworldly X factor and like it's not a team effort. One man only has so much impact, i'm tired of hearing lebron fans and cavs fans have this "we will contend/are a thread because Lebron that's why" attitude, it's so childish and void of reality and logic.

yeah but after he was around 22 or so, any team with LeBron is a contender, sooooo, yeah

lol, please
05-05-2015, 12:18 PM
yeah but after he was around 22 or so, any team with LeBron is a contender, sooooo, yeah

So you are are part of that group too, got it. No, they aren't. That's what im talking about right there. It's just ridiculous.

bucketss
05-05-2015, 12:19 PM
2 for 5 is suppose to be a diss? And btw, you improve ur advance stats by scoring and winning more than anything so learn the stats you claim players try to inflate. I know more about the game than you ever will so illl pass on ur advice

i honestly never seen finals record be used against someone before bron, its almost like losing previous rounds would have been better for lebrons legacy.

nickdymez
05-05-2015, 12:21 PM
2 for 5 is suppose to be a diss? And btw, you improve ur advance stats by scoring and winning more than anything so learn the stats you claim players try to inflate. I know more about the game than you ever will so illl pass on ur advice
Let's not get into the who knows basketball more argument since neither one of us know each other personally. And being 2 of 5 in the finals is good for someone like Theo Ratliff ( random name). Not a guy that people are calling the greatest player ever right??

koreancabbage
05-05-2015, 12:23 PM
Exactly. So Lebronites need to stop acting like he is some otherworldly X factor and like it's not a team effort. One man only has so much impact, i'm tired of hearing lebron fans and cavs fans have this "we will contend/are a thread because Lebron that's why" attitude, it's so childish and void of reality and logic.



Nonsense. I was around in the 90s and Jordan was loved by so many non Bulls fans it was ridiculous. I don't think i've ever met someone in my life who hated him. Again, Jordans mindset was "we didnt' want to join up with those guys, we wanted to beat them" - Jordan would have never left Chigago to build a super team.

ofc not, he just had the greatest coach at the time, one of the greatest complimentary player in Pippen and a big market in Chicago. why would he leave?

Lebron is loved as well. but it seems that the people who really hate Lebron are the people who loves Kobe shoot till you win mentality. Jordan did everything well and maybe opposing rival teams had it against Jordan. All the players have their flaws compared to Jordan.

All the people here who 'hate' Lebron don't really hate him either.

koreancabbage
05-05-2015, 12:25 PM
Let's not get into the who knows basketball more argument since neither one of us know each other personally. And being 2 of 5 in the finals is good for someone like Theo Ratliff ( random name). Not a guy that people are calling the greatest player ever right??

and why is that? There's more to that than the argument he's been in 5 finals and is a scrub player. He's been to 5 finals as the main man. Not like Robert Horry who played as the serviceable player that he was and was not known for leading the team.

basically just watering down the importance of 5 finals appearances because it serves your purpose.

KnicksorBust
05-05-2015, 12:26 PM
Let's not get into the who knows basketball more argument since neither one of us know each other personally. And being 2 of 5 in the finals is good for someone like Theo Ratliff ( random name). Not a guy that people are calling the greatest player ever right??

Unless he wins more titles he won't crack my top 5. However, I disagree with the OP that the Cav's season is over. I fully expect a bounce-back in Game 2. People swing opinions too much game by game. It was ridiculous during the Spurs/Clips series. I love to bump threads but even I don't feel like re-reading the nonsense after Spurs Game 5 win again.

Tony_Starks
05-05-2015, 12:31 PM
Exactly. So Lebronites need to stop acting like he is some otherworldly X factor and like it's not a team effort. One man only has so much impact, i'm tired of hearing lebron fans and cavs fans have this "we will contend/are a thread because Lebron that's why" attitude, it's so childish and void of reality and logic.

yeah but after he was around 22 or so, any team with LeBron is a contender, sooooo, yeah

Correction, any team with Lebron in the EAST is a contender. That's not exactly a tremendous accomplishment seeing how pathetic the conference is. Had he been out West his entire career he may very well had a career arch similar to CP3.....

lol, please
05-05-2015, 12:32 PM
Correction, any team with Lebron in the EAST is a contender. That's not exactly a tremendous accomplishment seeing how pathetic the conference is. Had he been out West his entire career he may very well had a career arch similar to CP3.....
Well said. Good post

KnicksorBust
05-05-2015, 12:34 PM
Correction, any team with Lebron in the EAST is a contender. That's not exactly a tremendous accomplishment seeing how pathetic the conference is. Had he been out West his entire career he may very well had a career arch similar to CP3.....

"may very well" being the key words there. Duncan contended every year in the West for the last 15 seasons. I see no reason why LeBron wouldn't have. By your opinion, any time he got out of the West he'd win a ring. Maybe he'd have more than 2 at this point with that belief.

ewing
05-05-2015, 12:34 PM
any team that has LeBron, plays in an historically weak conference, and allows him to pick it teammates from around the league before signing is a contender- i mean that's basically the same thing, right?

Hawkeye15
05-05-2015, 12:35 PM
Correction, any team with Lebron in the EAST is a contender. That's not exactly a tremendous accomplishment seeing how pathetic the conference is. Had he been out West his entire career he may very well had a career arch similar to CP3.....

speculation. I am stating facts. It is a fact, that any team LeBron has been on after he got his feet wet, was one of the top teams in the entire league.

KnicksorBust
05-05-2015, 12:36 PM
any team that has LeBron, plays in an historically weak conference, and allows him to pick it teammates from around the league before signing is a contender- i mean that's basically the same thing, right?

But why ignore all his success playing in Cleveland with scrubs?

ewing
05-05-2015, 12:36 PM
Unless he wins more titles he won't crack my top 5. However, I disagree with the OP that the Cav's season is over. I fully expect a bounce-back in Game 2. People swing opinions too much game by game. It was ridiculous during the Spurs/Clips series. I love to bump threads but even I don't feel like re-reading the nonsense after Spurs Game 5 win again.

would he get make free agent signings before joining these WC teams and would he jump ship if they appeared to be on a downturn?

ewing
05-05-2015, 12:37 PM
But why ignore all his success playing in Cleveland with scrubs?

that team wasn't always a contender and i have debunked the notion that he played by himself in Clev on here too many times already.

Tony_Starks
05-05-2015, 12:40 PM
Correction, any team with Lebron in the EAST is a contender. That's not exactly a tremendous accomplishment seeing how pathetic the conference is. Had he been out West his entire career he may very well had a career arch similar to CP3.....

"may very well" being the key words there. Duncan contended every year in the West for the last 15 seasons. I see no reason why LeBron wouldn't have. By your opinion, any time he got out of the West he'd win a ring. Maybe he'd have more than 2 at this point with that belief.

Duncan always had a squad though in the west, during and post prime. He's basically saying Lebron and a team of anybodies is a instant contender. True in the east, not true in the West.

Tony_Starks
05-05-2015, 12:40 PM
I don't think the Cavs season is over BTW, I pick them to win the series...

KnicksorBust
05-05-2015, 12:40 PM
that team wasn't always a contender and i have debunked the notion that he played by himself in Clev on here too many times already.

He DOUBLED the win shares of every other player on the 07 team that went to the Finals. :laugh: I would love to hear how you "debunked" that.

nickdymez
05-05-2015, 12:43 PM
and why is that? There's more to that than the argument he's been in 5 finals and is a scrub player. He's been to 5 finals as the main man. Not like Robert Horry who played as the serviceable player that he was and was not known for leading the team.

basically just watering down the importance of 5 finals appearances because it serves your purpose.
Yea, five finals appearances is awesome.

KnicksorBust
05-05-2015, 12:45 PM
Duncan always had a squad though in the west, during and post prime. He's basically saying Lebron and a team of anybodies is a instant contender. True in the east, not true in the West.

Fair enough. You are probably right about that. But I would counter that it's infinitely easier to create a squad out of nothing when you have LeBron in place than 99% of other players.

nickdymez
05-05-2015, 12:46 PM
He DOUBLED the win shares of every other player on the 07 team that went to the Finals. [emoji23] I would love to hear how you "debunked" that.
If your only argument is "win shares", then it's easy to debunk

Jamiecballer
05-05-2015, 12:46 PM
i'm going to go out on a limb and say the cavs lost a game last night? well in that case let's re-evaluate everything we know about Lebron James in light of this new and damning information!!

do i have that about right, OP?

Ty22Mitchell
05-05-2015, 12:47 PM
It's the reason I started to even root for LeBron to begin with. Totally indifferent to him, until everyone just started piling on him. Um, his team sucked outside him, wtf did they want?

Jordan had a ton of haters, and if modern social media existed back then, he would have been hated more than LeBron is for sure.

I totally agree with you. I actually disliked LeBron until people started going overboard with the hate. "LeBron is corny, Jordan was intense, a fierce competitor, " like really? These arguments have so little to do with basketball, and how can anyone truly gauge someone's personality from such a distance? It's ridiculous.
I question if anyone has ever worked with a perfectionist (someone similar the temperament of Michael/Kobe) at their day jobs. It's not always fun to work with them, and I guarantee that 95% of people in an office dislike those perfectionists (not the being liked matters). Work is so much more enjoyable for most people when the leader is a gregarious person. So if LeBron is who the media says he is; I think it's great he's showing that someone can be successful without being a total *******.

KnicksorBust
05-05-2015, 12:48 PM
If your only argument is "win shares", then it's easy to debunk

He led the team in 2's made, 3's made, ft's made, defensive rebounds, assists, steals, 2nd in blocks, and played approximately 600 minutes than anyone else on the team during the regular season. Now I've made more arguments. Does that mean I get a "debunk" yet?

KnicksorBust
05-05-2015, 12:50 PM
i'm going to go out on a limb and say the cavs lost a game last night? well in that case let's re-evaluate everything we know about Lebron James in light of this new information!!

:laugh: I completely agree. The sky was falling for 30-40 games into the season. They might not even make the playoffs. People actually said these things. Then when the seedings came out they were magically the favorite again and everybody backed them. Now they lose game 1 and it's "LeBron has lost it and might never win again" threads. It'd be more comical if these swings weren't so drastic.

Ty22Mitchell
05-05-2015, 12:57 PM
Correction, any team with Lebron in the EAST is a contender. That's not exactly a tremendous accomplishment seeing how pathetic the conference is. Had he been out West his entire career he may very well had a career arch similar to CP3.....

I disagree with such a post. Weaker conference or not, it is hard to consistently make the finals. The east has been the weaker conference for what, twenty years? And in that time no one (as the superstar of a team) has taken their team to the finals 5 times. Vince Carter, Allen Iverson, Tracy mcGrady, D Rose., etc. On top of that, no one has taken their team to the finals four straight times (regardless of who their teammates were).


Maybe 17 years... Whatever year Jordan left the Bulls.

bucketss
05-05-2015, 01:03 PM
i'm going to go out on a limb and say the cavs lost a game last night? well in that case let's re-evaluate everything we know about Lebron James in light of this new and damning information!!

do i have that about right, OP?

havent seen the op in awhile, but he pops outta nowhere when ever lebrons loses. he lives vicariously through lebrons failures.

Vee-Rex
05-05-2015, 01:04 PM
And people told me LeBron hate was gone/disappearing, lol. He lose one game and a thread is instantly made.

He'll be fine. I think game 2 he will come out super aggressive. He was still in the same kind of "drive-and-find-an-open-teammate-at-the-3point-line" mode, and unfortunately with Love/JR out it didn't work well at all.

SupremeNY.
05-05-2015, 01:06 PM
:speechless:

LionsFan..LOL
05-05-2015, 01:15 PM
This thread will go nowhere. It's a debate that has been discussed ad nauseum by this point. It's a thread that will end with baiting, trolling, and bans. In order to (hopefully) put an end to this discussion and prevent bans I'm locking this thread.