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View Full Version : BBR: Leonard only second non-C/PF to lead league in defensive ranking



JasonJohnHorn
04-16-2015, 07:35 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/def_rtg_yearly.html

In the NBA, only two non-PF/C's have led the league n defensive rating since 1974 (they don't have rankings before that): Scottie Pippen and Kwahi Leonard.

Thoughts?

KobeOwnSU
04-16-2015, 07:37 PM
My thoughts: He is really good at defending.

KnicksorBust
04-16-2015, 07:50 PM
If he hadnt missed those games I would say give him the DPOY.

SPURSFAN1
04-16-2015, 07:50 PM
:clap:

SPURSFAN1
04-16-2015, 07:51 PM
Best defender in the league hands down.

JV35
04-16-2015, 07:52 PM
Not unexpected for a Finals MVP.

SPURSFAN1
04-16-2015, 07:55 PM
23 years old. Give him a 5 year contract. He's not even in his peak yet. Maybe beginning his peak at 28 years old.

Jeffy25
04-16-2015, 09:15 PM
Hell look at the top 10 each year, pretty rare for a smaller guy to lead in that.

Jeffy25
04-16-2015, 09:18 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/def_rtg_top_10.html

valade16
04-17-2015, 09:29 AM
That is very impressive but Defensive Win Shares are to an extent a team metric, it's no surprise the last 4 winners played on teams that were considered stacked defensively at multiple positions. Heck, Leonard's teammate won the thing the season before last.

Still impressive and he is definitely the best wing defender out there.

kdspurman
04-17-2015, 09:56 AM
If he hadnt missed those games I would say give him the DPOY.

Easily

SPURSFAN1
04-17-2015, 01:36 PM
"Yes, it’s impressive on its own any time a player tops that leaderboard. There isn’t a single name on there that jumps out as obviously incorrect. But Kawhi’s season this year is extra special — he’s the first non-big man to top the list since Scottie Pippen in 1994-95. Going back farther in time…nope, that’s it, unless you count Julius Erving’s 1975 season in the ABA. Pippen is considered by some to be the best ever defender at the small forward position, but now Kawhi Leonard has matched him in at least one area.

The scariest part? 1994-95 was Pippen’s Age-29 season, at the peak of his powers. Kawhi’s only 23 and he’s already got an NBA Finals MVP. That sound you just heard was the rest of the NBA shuddering in dread."

That is scary. SA has a new superstar.

MonroeFAN
04-17-2015, 02:21 PM
Carlos Boozer being 2nd in recent years is some what of a joke don't you think? Sounds like a stat that relies heavily on team concepts right? Boozer couldn't defend a blind man in Utah.

It's impressive, but the guy is not a superstar, period. We had to listen to this all summer long and he responded with 17 & 7 on 47% shooting on a team that has churned out top defenders like they were nothing.

JEDean89
04-17-2015, 03:31 PM
^^^ keep denying. anyone who can play like he did against LBJ last finals is a hands down superstar. the dude only averaged 32 minutes per game this year on a team that relies on ball movement. they have no 20 ppg guys on that team. he led the league in steals though, and is coming off a Finals MVP year. I really don't think there is a GM in the league that doesn't think he's a superstar. 30 teams would offer him a max contract this offseason.

nastynice
04-17-2015, 03:38 PM
Not just a phenomenal defender, but all around player. Of course I'd love to see Dray Day get DPOY, but would completely understand if it goes to Leonard

Legitimate
04-17-2015, 05:12 PM
come to the raps...we'll be instant contenders if you jump ship :)

MonroeFAN
04-17-2015, 09:51 PM
^^^ keep denying. anyone who can play like he did against LBJ last finals is a hands down superstar. the dude only averaged 32 minutes per game this year on a team that relies on ball movement. they have no 20 ppg guys on that team. he led the league in steals though, and is coming off a Finals MVP year. I really don't think there is a GM in the league that doesn't think he's a superstar. 30 teams would offer him a max contract this offseason.

You seem to have the terms "defensive specialist" and "superstar" confused with one another. Chauncey Billups won a finals MVP, was he a superstar?

Any team would offer him a max contract, but in today's NBA that doesn't mean all that much. I agree, he's a solid piece, but a superstar can carry a team on both sides of the ball. Are you trusting him with 17 shots a game? Im not, yet.

SPURSFAN1
04-17-2015, 11:41 PM
You seem to have the terms "defensive specialist" and "superstar" confused with one another. Chauncey Billups won a finals MVP, was he a superstar?

Any team would offer him a max contract, but in today's NBA that doesn't mean all that much. I agree, he's a solid piece, but a superstar can carry a team on both sides of the ball. Are you trusting him with 17 shots a game? Im not, yet.

Piston fans don't know much. No offence.

More-Than-Most
04-18-2015, 12:05 AM
He is an amazing defender but if James or CP3 would actually play defense all the time like they could I dont think there are 2 better defenders in the league.

LakersIn5
04-18-2015, 12:33 AM
Can be a superstar but not a superstar YET

LakersIn5
04-18-2015, 12:34 AM
Piston fans don't know much. No offence.

I didnt know san antonio have arrogant fans now

numba1CHANGsta
04-18-2015, 12:48 AM
Yeah that's cool, but can he dance?

SPURSFAN1
04-18-2015, 02:56 AM
Yeah that's cool, but can he dance?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfOLuZ7pJys

Chronz
04-18-2015, 03:03 AM
Did someone really try to diminish kawhi with worthless averages

JasonJohnHorn
04-18-2015, 08:42 AM
Piston fans don't know much. No offence.

FYI: A Pistons fan started this thread ;-)

JasonJohnHorn
04-18-2015, 08:56 AM
If this was the 80s/90s, he'd be averaging more than 20 a game per36. Fewer possessions equal fewer shots = lower per-game averages.

Look at his percentages. OVER .500 inside the arc, and .349 beyond. Efficient 2-point shot (very much so for a sf) and more than respectable 3-point shot.

PLus the dude can rebound: 8.2 per36.

And he's a lock down defender?

People gave Nash 2 MVP awards despite the fact that he had zero impact on defense. Given he is the best defender, that puts Leonard's defence on a par with Nash's play making: best in the league. Now you look at his offensive game, it is FAR better than Nash's defensive game.

If one were to argue that Nash was a big enough superstar to win TWO MVP awards, then.... yeah... Leonard could be called a superstar.

ewing
04-18-2015, 09:01 AM
Guy reminds me an awful lot of young Ron Artest.

JasonJohnHorn
04-18-2015, 10:51 AM
Guy reminds me an awful lot of young Ron Artest.

When it comes to man-to-man coverage and team defense, I agree.


That said, MWP was never that strong a rebounder or as efficient a scorer as Leonard was this season, though he did have seasons where he proved a great three-point threat. MWP was also a much better play maker than Leonard.



Offensively very different players, but on the defensive end, they show the same kind of pride and determination, but Leonard is much cooler and level headed.

ManRam
04-18-2015, 11:23 AM
The neat thing about Kawhi is that I keep seeing fans of teams that aren't the Spurs thinking there's a chance the Spurs don't match a max contract for him...

LakersIn5
04-18-2015, 11:33 AM
If this was the 80s/90s, he'd be averaging more than 20 a game per36. Fewer possessions equal fewer shots = lower per-game averages.

Look at his percentages. OVER .500 inside the arc, and .349 beyond. Efficient 2-point shot (very much so for a sf) and more than respectable 3-point shot.

PLus the dude can rebound: 8.2 per36.

And he's a lock down defender?

People gave Nash 2 MVP awards despite the fact that he had zero impact on defense. Given he is the best defender, that puts Leonard's defence on a par with Nash's play making: best in the league. Now you look at his offensive game, it is FAR better than Nash's defensive game.

If one were to argue that Nash was a big enough superstar to win TWO MVP awards, then.... yeah... Leonard could be called a superstar.

I love nash but he was never a "superstar"

ewing
04-18-2015, 12:19 PM
When it comes to man-to-man coverage and team defense, I agree.


That said, MWP was never that strong a rebounder or as efficient a scorer as Leonard was this season, though he did have seasons where he proved a great three-point threat. MWP was also a much better play maker than Leonard.



Offensively very different players, but on the defensive end, they show the same kind of pride and determination, but Leonard is much cooler and level headed.


he is a much more disciplined offensive player but even on that end i do think they have similarities. Of course i am talking about young Ron before he bulked up for no reason and took away his own speed and mobility. Imagine if Leonard put on 35-40 pounds of muscle for no reason this off season. He's already strong as bull. Ron was just crazy.

ewing
04-18-2015, 12:22 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/def_rtg_yearly.html

In the NBA, only two non-PF/C's have led the league n defensive rating since 1974 (they don't have rankings before that): Scottie Pippen and Kwahi Leonard.

Thoughts?



i'll give you credit. I am pretty sure i remember you saying he could be you a #1 guy and I didn't buy. If Pop never said it, i would have been sure you were wrong. Leonard is a hell of a player.

kdspurman
04-19-2015, 11:37 AM
i'll give you credit. I am pretty sure i remember you saying he could be you a #1 guy and I didn't buy. If Pop never said it, i would have been sure you were wrong. Leonard is a hell of a player.

Many still don't think he can, but his game continues to evolve.

JEDean89
04-19-2015, 12:33 PM
You seem to have the terms "defensive specialist" and "superstar" confused with one another. Chauncey Billups won a finals MVP, was he a superstar?

Any team would offer him a max contract, but in today's NBA that doesn't mean all that much. I agree, he's a solid piece, but a superstar can carry a team on both sides of the ball. Are you trusting him with 17 shots a game? Im not, yet.

you seem to have the terms "chucker" and superstar confused. he was the best offensive and defensive player on a championship team. nough said. billups was great, but he was not the 2 way player leonard was. maybe if he had led the league in steals and defensive rating during his finals runs.

cab6131
04-19-2015, 04:01 PM
Kawhi's D reminds me of Pippen at his prime.

JEDean89
04-19-2015, 05:14 PM
^^^ prime pippen is a great comp

nastynice
04-19-2015, 07:05 PM
Piston fans don't know much. No offence.


FYI: A Pistons fan started this thread ;-)

lol