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View Full Version : Tanking vs. Barely making the playoffs



Bos_Sports4Life
04-03-2015, 04:51 PM
just curious, as a fan...what would you rather want? Pretty much would you rather be this years Celtics or 76ers?

I have always been in favor of tanking if you are in position where you know you have no chance of a title...but most people seem to disagree. Thoughts?

ewing
04-03-2015, 05:00 PM
tanking is bad for the sport. Aside from the imbalance of power that makes me stay up nights if i want to watch an interesting game it is the biggest black eye the sport has right now. unfortunately, i don't know that their is an answer to the problem.

Hawkeye15
04-03-2015, 05:06 PM
I never condone tanking.

However, depending on the state of your team, one is better than the other.

Blitzace137
04-03-2015, 05:15 PM
Until they reform the draft lottery, I can't see why a team would prefer to be a fringe playoff team over tanking.

More-Than-Most
04-03-2015, 05:17 PM
No such thing as a team tanking... Teams owners wanting to lose sure and putting crap on the floor sure but there is no way players are going out there not trying to win... People gave the sixers so much **** and said they would be the worst team ever and now they probably win 20 games and a team like the knicks and Magic who are suppose to be more talented look so much worse and the knicks/lakers organization have actually put their teams in much worse situations just to lose games.... No player goes out there trying to tank ever

Hawkeye15
04-03-2015, 05:19 PM
No such thing as a team tanking... Teams owners wanting to lose sure and putting crap on the floor sure but there is no way players are going out there not trying to win... People gave the sixers so much **** and said they would be the worst team ever and now they probably win 20 games and a team like the knicks and Magic who are suppose to be more talented look so much worse and the knicks/lakers organization have actually put their teams in much worse situations just to lose games.... No player goes out there trying to tank ever

that wasn't the question though. Of course no player would try and lose. But it can't be ignored that some GM's have been given the green light to make sure the talent level is so bad on a team, through whatever combination that takes, to pile up losses to add more high draft picks and shed salary along the way.

But that is obvious. I was only agreeing that players don't tank. But their bosses do..

da ThRONe
04-03-2015, 05:19 PM
Tanking is over blown and mostly the leagues fault. They only treat the contenders like they are worth something. So being a middle of the pack team doesn't make sense. It's best to be great or in the best position to be great which is tanking.

If you are a bad team it makes no sense to battle for 82 games when it just hurts you in the long run. At the same time lottery reform does nothing but hurt the teams that need the most help. The key to ending tanking is the spread the attentionout more throughout the league. End max contracts with the cap being more strict like it is. Reducing the games from 82 and the playoffs to best of 5 all the way through.

More-Than-Most
04-03-2015, 05:20 PM
Until they reform the draft lottery, I can't see why a team would prefer to be a fringe playoff team over tanking.

Not just that... When teams stop only wanting to build super teams as well... The knicks are gonna fall into a trap this off season... They will go out and sign 2 top free agents but those free agents wont be a top 10-15 player in basketball and because of that those players wont be able to put that team on a level of several teams in the west or the Cavs in the east... It will be wasted money because the Knicks have not built enough potential through the draft and will cap out with good players and the rest of the team in medicority... They are gonna try a fast rebuild and because of the super team crap they are gonna be burned.

More-Than-Most
04-03-2015, 05:22 PM
that wasn't the question though. Of course no player would try and lose. But it can't be ignored that some GM's have been given the green light to make sure the talent level is so bad on a team, through whatever combination that takes, to pile up losses to add more high draft picks and shed salary along the way.

But that is obvious. I was only agreeing that players don't tank. But their bosses do..

Oh yea easily but my point being no matter how hard owners want to tank players are gonna win games... There was to much crap on a sixers teams players all season long when the blame should be put strictly on owner/GM and the NBA itself.

Tony_Starks
04-03-2015, 05:22 PM
Always prefer making the playoffs. These days people completely disregard the value of post season experience. If I have a young core I'm investing in I'd much rather have them crawl into the post season and learn what playing at the highest level is like than tank it just to throw another draft pick in the mix....

More-Than-Most
04-03-2015, 05:25 PM
Always prefer making the playoffs. These days people completely disregard the value of post season experience. If I have a young core I'm investing in I'd much rather have them crawl into the post season and learn what playing at the highest level is like than tank it just to throw another draft pick in the mix....

That worked out so well for the sixers for over a decade. Post season Exp means nothing... Superstars are either gonna perform or their not like any other NBA game... The only difference in the playoffs is you most likely play tough teams more than usual... How does post season exp help in the East? You go in as an 8 seed and get rekt by the cavs in 4 or 5.... Your team will change next year as will theirs and other teams will get better.... What does being in the post season help there at all if they wont be matching up with the same team again next year?

Tony_Starks
04-03-2015, 05:25 PM
No such thing as a team tanking... Teams owners wanting to lose sure and putting crap on the floor sure but there is no way players are going out there not trying to win... People gave the sixers so much **** and said they would be the worst team ever and now they probably win 20 games and a team like the knicks and Magic who are suppose to be more talented look so much worse and the knicks/lakers organization have actually put their teams in much worse situations just to lose games.... No player goes out there trying to tank ever

I'm pretty sure the Lakers didn't tell Nash, Kobe, Randall, and Nick Young to all get hurt on purpose. 3 of which for the entire season.

There's tanking and then there's bad luck.....

KnicksorBust
04-03-2015, 05:25 PM
Much rather be the Sixers than the Celtics. The Sixers are doing something incredibly smart and they are going to show how this model creates significantly more opportunities to build a championship contender.

More-Than-Most
04-03-2015, 05:26 PM
I'm pretty sure the Lakers didn't tell Nash, Kobe, Randall, and Nick Young to all get hurt on purpose. 3 of which for the entire season.

There's tanking and then there's bad luck.....

They tried to keep Nash from retiring before the season just to use him as a trade chip...Bad luck 2 years ago yes... This year they have been straight tanking... I agree with it honestly but lets not call it something it isnt.

More-Than-Most
04-03-2015, 05:27 PM
Much rather be the Sixers than the Celtics. The Sixers are doing something incredibly smart and they are going to show how this model creates significantly more opportunities to build a championship contender.

Thats why honestly I hope the knicks just hold off and be bad another year over rushing their rebuild and signing meh players... When the knicks are great its great for basketball

Mell413
04-03-2015, 05:29 PM
Depends on the make up of the team. If you have guys that are supposed to be part of the next great team it's probably better to get those guys playoff experience. Plus free agents are more likely to sign with a team that is close to winning. I don't think I would want my team to purposely put a bad team out there.

Hawkeye15
04-03-2015, 05:30 PM
Oh yea easily but my point being no matter how hard owners want to tank players are gonna win games... There was to much crap on a sixers teams players all season long when the blame should be put strictly on owner/GM and the NBA itself.

players would never tank. Who is signing a player who tanked?

Tony_Starks
04-03-2015, 05:32 PM
Always prefer making the playoffs. These days people completely disregard the value of post season experience. If I have a young core I'm investing in I'd much rather have them crawl into the post season and learn what playing at the highest level is like than tank it just to throw another draft pick in the mix....

That worked out so well for the sixers for over a decade. Post season Exp means nothing... Superstars are either gonna perform or their not like any other NBA game... The only difference in the playoffs is you most likely play tough teams more than usual... How does post season exp help in the East? You go in as an 8 seed and get rekt by the cavs in 4 or 5.... Your team will change next year as will theirs and other teams will get better.... What does being in the post season help there at all if they wont be matching up with the same team again next year?

My scenario is when management is competent. In the Sixer's defense their problem wasn't making the playoffs it was inept management. How long did it take them to figure out Iggy wasn't a player to build around? What did they do in Free Agency? Trades? Drafts? They had potential and opportunity to build a winning program and blew it. ( Andrew Bynum anyone?)

Even now that they are tanking for years, they aren't even doing that right. What franchise player do they have to show for it? Noel? Embiid? Carter Williams? Their management is just flat out awful whatever direction they go in.

People keep getting sold on "assests and flexibility" but that dream only last for so long....

Tony_Starks
04-03-2015, 05:35 PM
I'm pretty sure the Lakers didn't tell Nash, Kobe, Randall, and Nick Young to all get hurt on purpose. 3 of which for the entire season.

There's tanking and then there's bad luck.....

They tried to keep Nash from retiring before the season just to use him as a trade chip...Bad luck 2 years ago yes... This year they have been straight tanking... I agree with it honestly but lets not call it something it isnt.

1 player gets hurt pre season for the year, another the first game for the year, a third a few weeks into the season for the year.

That's tanking? OK.

Blitzace137
04-03-2015, 05:38 PM
Not just that... When teams stop only wanting to build super teams as well... The knicks are gonna fall into a trap this off season... They will go out and sign 2 top free agents but those free agents wont be a top 10-15 player in basketball and because of that those players wont be able to put that team on a level of several teams in the west or the Cavs in the east... It will be wasted money because the Knicks have not built enough potential through the draft and will cap out with good players and the rest of the team in medicority... They are gonna try a fast rebuild and because of the super team crap they are gonna be burned.

Atlanta is a perfect example of a team that doesn't have a "big three" but are still contenders. Teams are starting to space out the floor and play team ball. I think teams are starting to move away from the "big three" experiment. It hasn't always worked, the three times it has worked out--over the past decade is due to circumstances imo. It worked for the Heats and Cavs b/c they have the best player in the world. Take LeBron off both teams and the struggle. Cavs early in the season and Heats are barely a playoff team. It worked for the Celtics b/c Allen,KG,Pierce were in the late stages of their careers and complimented each other perfectly.

Plus you have to remember the cap is gonna jump way up after next season, so even if the Knicks sign two good but not superstar players we will not be capped out. You add Melo, two good players and a draft pick that is a good foundation. Add another high caliber player that fits the triangle in 2016 FA, I don't see why we can't compete. It's not a sure shot plan but it's not a bad one. Plus with the cap going up, if the plan doesn't work, Melo's contract becomes very tradable. That would allow us to load up on assets.

Blitzace137
04-03-2015, 05:44 PM
players would never tank. Who is signing a player who tanked?

No way players Tank, I watch a fair share of Knick, Philly and Minny games. Players play just as hard if they didn't they would get blown out by 40 on a nightly bases.

Bos_Sports4Life
04-03-2015, 06:27 PM
Atlanta is a perfect example of a team that doesn't have a "big three" but are still contenders. Teams are starting to space out the floor and play team ball. I think teams are starting to move away from the "big three" experiment. It hasn't always worked, the three times it has worked out--over the past decade is due to circumstances imo. It worked for the Heats and Cavs b/c they have the best player in the world. Take LeBron off both teams and the struggle. Cavs early in the season and Heats are barely a playoff team. It worked for the Celtics b/c Allen,KG,Pierce were in the late stages of their careers and complimented each other perfectly.

Plus you have to remember the cap is gonna jump way up after next season, so even if the Knicks sign two good but not superstar players we will not be capped out. You add Melo, two good players and a draft pick that is a good foundation. Add another high caliber player that fits the triangle in 2016 FA, I don't see why we can't compete. It's not a sure shot plan but it's not a bad one. Plus with the cap going up, if the plan doesn't work, Melo's contract becomes very tradable. That would allow us to load up on assets.

I don't know if its about getting a "big 3" per se but having that 1 superstar is paramount.

MJ (6), Hakeem (2), Duncan (5), Shaq (3), Wade (1), KG (1), Dirk (1), Lebron (2), Kobe (2). Those 9 players have been the #1 in 23 of the past 24 seasons...what do they all have in common? most would argue they are somewhere between #1 (MJ) to the #20 range (Dirk).

If atl/GSW win it all? it would be total 100% exceptions to the rule. Those teams would resemble a team like Det when they won it with a few all stars/no slam dunk top 20 all time guys.

Its why I am personally 100% for tanking, teams in the NBA don't generally win UNLESS they have that 1 superstar. even the pistons had a group that included ben Wallace (dpoy caliber), Billups (Future HOFer) and Rasheed (Multi time all star) all at a solid age and they only managed 1 title.

More-Than-Most
04-03-2015, 06:41 PM
My scenario is when management is competent. In the Sixer's defense their problem wasn't making the playoffs it was inept management. How long did it take them to figure out Iggy wasn't a player to build around? What did they do in Free Agency? Trades? Drafts? They had potential and opportunity to build a winning program and blew it. ( Andrew Bynum anyone?)

Even now that they are tanking for years, they aren't even doing that right. What franchise player do they have to show for it? Noel? Embiid? Carter Williams? Their management is just flat out awful whatever direction they go in.

People keep getting sold on "assests and flexibility" but that dream only last for so long....

The last 3 years of this franchise has been gold... There has not been a bad move... The 10 years before that you are correct but the last 3 management has been some of the best in basketball with their moves... They drafted the best available in really sad drafts and turned holiday and MCW into gold... They have Embid/Noel 2 possible lottery picks this year and oh yea this guy everyone seems to forget about

http://www.csnphilly.com/basketball-philadelphia-76ers/dario-saric-named-fiba-europe-young-player-year

On top of that they will have a **** ton of cap space. This organization has tanked... No way around that but it has put them in an insane position finally.

Tony_Starks
04-03-2015, 06:41 PM
Milwaukee is another good example. When Parker and Sanders went down popular logic would have them just goof off the rest of the season and position themselves for the lotto. Instead they are going to let the kids get some playoff burn and have some sort of building block for next year....

Jamiecballer
04-03-2015, 07:08 PM
I understand the reasoning for tanking but I'd be ashamed if it was my team that was doing it.

Ariza's Better
04-03-2015, 08:04 PM
I feel like the word "tank" gets thrown around way to much. To me, only one team is tanking and that's the Lakers. Every other team to me is rebuilding.

But to answer the original question, both are in great positions. 76ers have a bunch of young players and picks to build a great team. And the celtics have a great mix of young players and mid-aged players to build around. Plus they also have a good amount of draft picks. One thing that will be interesting about the celtics is what they do with Thomas. He is young enough to be part of their next push for a championship but he also can be a valuable trade piece.

KnicksorBust
04-03-2015, 08:28 PM
Much rather be the Sixers than the Celtics. The Sixers are doing something incredibly smart and they are going to show how this model creates significantly more opportunities to build a championship contender.

Thats why honestly I hope the knicks just hold off and be bad another year over rushing their rebuild and signing meh players... When the knicks are great its great for basketball

But the problem is that the players they will get in this years draft Okafor / Towns / Russell are all ready to contribute at the pro level. Put one of them with Melo and another $25 million of FA signings and you wont have a lottery team anymore.

KnicksorBust
04-03-2015, 08:30 PM
I understand the reasoning for tanking but I'd be ashamed if it was my team that was doing it.

I would be ashamed if my team was dumb enough to have terrible long term contracts and stuck being a 30-40 win team every year.

ewing
04-03-2015, 08:48 PM
But the problem is that the players they will get in this years draft Okafor / Towns / Russell are all ready to contribute at the pro level. Put one of them with Melo and another $25 million of FA signings and you wont have a lottery team anymore.

who do you prefer b/t Okafor and Towns?

slashsnake
04-04-2015, 01:13 AM
But the problem is that the players they will get in this years draft Okafor / Towns / Russell are all ready to contribute at the pro level. Put one of them with Melo and another $25 million of FA signings and you wont have a lottery team anymore.

True, but if you don't get anyone with that 25 mil, do you sign role players with it on 3-4 year deals, or give out some 1 year deals or pick up some expiring contracts for a season and head into the next off-season with the ability to try for a star.



Also, I heard an idea out there on the radio some guy came up with that sounded interesting to try and help curb tanking. A reverse win loss thing after a team was eliminated.

So the team with the most wins AFTER being eliminated from playoff contention gets the #1 overall pick. 2nd most wins gets #2 and on and on.

So instead of seeing a team shut down their guys as soon as the season is lost and try to lose out, the goal would be who can win more games down the final stretch of the season.

Of course a potential negative to this is that teams may try to tank as hard as they can right out of the gate to get out of contention and start racking up those wins... But I like later season basketball better anyways, and seeing lottery teams fight against teams jockeying for playoff position late in the year rather than just roll over and rest every good player they have sounds fun.

Jamiecballer
04-04-2015, 12:26 PM
I would be ashamed if my team was dumb enough to have terrible long term contracts and stuck being a 30-40 win team every year.
So would I but that's not actually the opposite of tanking. That's mediocre management.

KnicksorBust
04-04-2015, 01:28 PM
But the problem is that the players they will get in this years draft Okafor / Towns / Russell are all ready to contribute at the pro level. Put one of them with Melo and another $25 million of FA signings and you wont have a lottery team anymore.

who do you prefer b/t Okafor and Towns?

Its a great question. Probably Towns for the defense and upside with his jump shot. You?

Vee-Rex
04-04-2015, 01:32 PM
You could always hope to be like the Cavs. Try to make the playoffs and even come close only to fail but still get lucky enough to get the number 1 pick, heh.

I always wanted to see my teams make a run for the playoffs and win. I love seeing teams go all out tank mode and still don't get the number 1 overall pick. They don't deserve it, IMO.

Sactown
04-04-2015, 07:10 PM
Depends if I'm NOP I want to make the playoffs if im Boston I would want to miss

Essentially to me as long as you have your big cornerstone I'd rather win and get playoff experience and tinker through FA then hope I land another big piece at 10-15 in the draft

da ThRONe
04-04-2015, 09:37 PM
Depends if I'm NOP I want to make the playoffs if im Boston I would want to miss

Essentially to me as long as you have your big cornerstone I'd rather win and get playoff experience and tinker through FA then hope I land another big piece at 10-15 in the draft

Well considering my Pelicans don't own their pick missing the playoffs do us no good. Unless we win the lotto.

Cal827
04-04-2015, 10:11 PM
**** Boston

Scoots
04-05-2015, 03:16 AM
The West stays dominant longer with the way the draft is ordered. Make the playoffs in the east at the bottom and you have no chance of winning a title AND your draft pick is a lot worse than your record should make it. Right now tanking is the best option in the east to try to wrest parity back from the West.

Vampirate
04-05-2015, 10:36 AM
I'd rather my team barely make the playoffs in the West than tank.

I'd rather my team tank than barely make the playoffs in the East.

That's the difference between conferences.

ewing
04-05-2015, 11:10 AM
Its a great question. Probably Towns for the defense and upside with his jump shot. You?

i have really only watched the toury this year so i am going solely based on that. I like Okufor. He is definitely way more polished and i think he has room for growth. Get that kids *** in top shape and i think he jumps another level- plus he can pass. What scares me is Towns already has the athleticism and can shoot it like you said- seems like a sure thing. If it was my job Okufor work ethic would be very important to me. I think he has a lot of work to do on his body

Scoots
04-05-2015, 01:32 PM
Okafor for me. Big men who score, rebound, defend, pass, and are smart are hard to find ... Towns is just a little behind Okafor right now but has more potential for growth. It's really close.

Ty Fast
04-05-2015, 03:49 PM
The better your team the money u make. U sell more tickets, jerseys, ect. And even if u get swept in the 1st round thats 2 extra home games.

Scoots
04-05-2015, 06:29 PM
The better your team the money u make. U sell more tickets, jerseys, ect. And even if u get swept in the 1st round thats 2 extra home games.

A star on your team makes more money for you than 2 extra home games.

Wade n Fade
04-05-2015, 09:59 PM
Boston is stupid. They would've had a top lotto pick if they hadn't tried to remain in contention in a bad East. As a Heat fan, I don't mind taking it down for the season due to all the injuries and such little play left into the season. With a lotto pick, even top 10, we can either package that with Deng + Whiteside and maybe Napier for a top 2 pick and get Okafor or Towns. If not, 10 gives us Stanley Johnson, Cauley Stein, or someone else.

Cal827
04-05-2015, 11:24 PM
Side note, if it ends up that Indiana and Miami get 7/8 seeds, then all of the other teams around there should pretty much be regulated. The Pacers didn't have Paul George for pretty much all season, and the Heat have had huge injury problems in their bench, and their best players.

Also, it's a shame that Jennings got hurt, cause Detroit would definitely also be in the playoffs right now.

TylerSL
04-06-2015, 04:13 PM
I would rather barely make the postseason. Tanking would just be awful and would alienate the fan-base. Even if it's obvious a team will not win in the postseason, at least you made it and you worked your *** off all season to get there, that alone is commendable.

TylerSL
04-06-2015, 04:30 PM
Side note, if it ends up that Indiana and Miami get 7/8 seeds, then all of the other teams around there should pretty much be regulated. The Pacers didn't have Paul George for pretty much all season, and the Heat have had huge injury problems in their bench, and their best players.

Also, it's a shame that Jennings got hurt, cause Detroit would definitely also be in the playoffs right now.

I doubt Miami makes the postseason, just too many injuries that we couldn't build anything close to continuity this season :sigh:

I've been a Heat fan since 2004, and this is by far the most disappointing season Miami has had since. They won 15 games in 07-08 but nobody expected them to be very good after getting swept by Chicago the previous season. This year Hassan Whiteside completely fell into our laps and we got Goran Dragic for spare parts, but none of that matters in the least. It doesn't matter because the injury bug has robbed our season and at this point, I am just ready for it to end. It's doubtful we could have won the title with a healthy roster, but I would have loved to see it go up against Cleveland.

Anyway, there is always next year.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
04-06-2015, 04:47 PM
Boston is stupid. They would've had a top lotto pick if they hadn't tried to remain in contention in a bad East. As a Heat fan, I don't mind taking it down for the season due to all the injuries and such little play left into the season. With a lotto pick, even top 10, we can either package that with Deng + Whiteside and maybe Napier for a top 2 pick and get Okafor or Towns. If not, 10 gives us Stanley Johnson, Cauley Stein, or someone else.

I don't think the Celtics really planned this. Their talent really isn't playoff worthy, it may still be one of the least talented teams in the league still. It's just the fact that Stevens is a really tremendous coach is the reason why they're in contention for a playoff spot.

Scoots
04-06-2015, 07:40 PM
I wanted Brad Stevens to be the Warriors coach ... not that I'm not happy about the current Warriors coaching staff though.

In the East if you are below 500 you have to tank it seems to me.

Tumstock
04-07-2015, 02:47 AM
I would be ashamed if my team was dumb enough to have terrible long term contracts and stuck being a 30-40 win team every year.

Isn't what the Knicks have been doin the last couple of years?

truplayer199
04-07-2015, 03:23 PM
They tried to keep Nash from retiring before the season just to use him as a trade chip...Bad luck 2 years ago yes... This year they have been straight tanking... I agree with it honestly but lets not call it something it isnt.

This is the antithesis of tanking... Offer a 40 year old player and hope that a team would be stupid enough to trade you assets. All things considered, trading Nash would've been a net gain for the Lakers. Of all the lottery teams in the West, name a team that you believe the Lakers should be better than? Also keep in the season ending injuries and other long term injuries.

truplayer199
04-07-2015, 03:35 PM
I feel like the word "tank" gets thrown around way to much. To me, only one team is tanking and that's the Lakers. Every other team to me is rebuilding.

But to answer the original question, both are in great positions. 76ers have a bunch of young players and picks to build a great team. And the celtics have a great mix of young players and mid-aged players to build around. Plus they also have a good amount of draft picks. One thing that will be interesting about the celtics is what they do with Thomas. He is young enough to be part of their next push for a championship but he also can be a valuable trade piece.

Please explain what's the difference? I suspect that you will say one is done in a nefarious way and the other isn't. Before the season started the Lakers were penciled in as the 12th best team in the West by ESPN. Is it too far-fetched that the 12th best team with more injuries than any other team in the League might slip to the 14th spot?

"No other team has dealt with more injuries than the Lakers this season. Injuries are a part of the game, but the Lakers have four players that were lost for the season, so the roster is thin."

lol, please
04-07-2015, 03:52 PM
I don't believe tanking is a thing, and I have yet to see empirical evidence that is is, so until I do it will always remain a figment of imagination of weak minded fans who have a finals-or-quit mentality. As a competitor, I expect improvement every season and whether the playoffs are made or not, I want and expect my team to put forth 110% every time they step on the court, regardless of what's at stake. Go out there and give it your all, and I am happy as a fan. Not to mention picks aren't infallible anyway, it's foolish to put all your eggs in that basket.

2-ONE-5
04-07-2015, 03:58 PM
just curious, as a fan...what would you rather want? Pretty much would you rather be this years Celtics or 76ers?

I have always been in favor of tanking if you are in position where you know you have no chance of a title...but most people seem to disagree. Thoughts?

it depends. This year I would much rather be the sixers then the celtics (homerness aside) but for the young, up and coming teams like when OKC pushed LAL to 6 their first year with KD and Westy or this year if AD gets in I would rather gain the experience.

da ThRONe
04-07-2015, 04:00 PM
Tanking is only done by management. There's no way players and coaches are tanking. They may give up on the season at some point, but certainly aren't tanking so management can draft their replacements.

PhillyFaninLA
04-07-2015, 04:00 PM
just curious, as a fan...what would you rather want? Pretty much would you rather be this years Celtics or 76ers?

I have always been in favor of tanking if you are in position where you know you have no chance of a title...but most people seem to disagree. Thoughts?


As a Sixers fan I'd rather have Noles, Embiid, Saric, and potentially 4 1st round picks this year than be stuck competing for an 8th seed.

You can't be great in the NBA if you don't take the chance at terrible

2-ONE-5
04-07-2015, 04:04 PM
Boston is stupid. They would've had a top lotto pick if they hadn't tried to remain in contention in a bad East. As a Heat fan, I don't mind taking it down for the season due to all the injuries and such little play left into the season. With a lotto pick, even top 10, we can either package that with Deng + Whiteside and maybe Napier for a top 2 pick and get Okafor or Towns. If not, 10 gives us Stanley Johnson, Cauley Stein, or someone else.

no you cant.

Ariza's Better
04-08-2015, 12:24 AM
Please explain what's the difference? I suspect that you will say one is done in a nefarious way and the other isn't. Before the season started the Lakers were penciled in as the 12th best team in the West by ESPN. Is it too far-fetched that the 12th best team with more injuries than any other team in the League might slip to the 14th spot?

"No other team has dealt with more injuries than the Lakers this season. Injuries are a part of the game, but the Lakers have four players that were lost for the season, so the roster is thin."

That ranking by espn was generous. Anyway, it doesn't seem Byron Scott is trying his best to win games. It seems to me that players who get hot seem to be benched a lot by Scott.

crewfan13
04-08-2015, 08:59 AM
Out of curiousity, for all the people who seem to think tanking is terrible for the sport, how many 76er games have you watched this year? There are some nights where they are truly bad. But they've beaten a few good teams. They've taken some good teams to OT and been tight late against some good teams too. They do go out and compete just about every night. They'll get down big sometimes and look horrible all night, but most bad teams, tanking or not, have those nights. Heck, most middle of the road teams have a few games per year they just look flat and awful.

I never understand why people complain about tanking in basketball so much. From a winning percentage standpoint, the worst team in the NBA is better than a 3 win NFL team at this moment. Bad teams occur in all sports. Maybe in other leagues, like the NFL, the bad teams sign more free agents, but that's also partially because its a 53 man roster, not 15. Its not like NFL teams aren't basically giving up when they start 1-7 and bring in their unprepared rookie qb to give him experience. In baseball, when a team like Chicago or Houston is truly terrible for a few years, they're lauded for trading away whatever assets they may have for decent prospects and building through the draft. In hockey, you have the home fans cheering for an away goal because they want their team to get the first pick for a player deemed to be a once in a generation type talent. It happens in every sport. Teams that aren't good realize they are probably better off being really bad than just being pretty bad. But for some reason, in basketball its hugely criticized, and in other sports, its just because the team is bad.

NYKalltheway
04-08-2015, 10:14 AM
Tanking is terrible...

mngopher35
04-08-2015, 12:49 PM
Players don't and never will go out there and tank. "Tanking" happens as more of an organizational decision on what direction the team should go (aka sixers deciding to stop years of mediocre play by trading for assets and going for top picks).

In this sense I think it's best that if you are a team trying to get the best pick/young players possible it doesn't help much to make the playoffs just to get bounced immediately. Celtics would be better off long term with a top 3-5 pick IMO but at the same time I wouldn't be mad that the team is playing solid because (it appears) they got a great coach.

2-ONE-5
04-08-2015, 03:19 PM
yea the flip side for the C's is that rather then having many long term, future players to attract FA's they might/probably will be able to lure better players in with this great coaching display from Stevens so far.

Scoots
04-08-2015, 07:16 PM
Amin Elhassan said the Warriors were definitely tanking in 2007 when they lost to the Suns at the end of the season. At the time he was working in the front office for the Suns and he said there is no question ... it's possible the Warriors told him straight out they were not going to win the game. I don't know. That game made the difference between the Warriors facing the Mavs in the first round or not ... they lost, faced the Mavs and beat them. It happened. Tanking happens.

The Warriors again a few years ago started having little injuries become injuries that kept players out for months, they went through dozens of players/lineups. During this "horribly injury plagued season" a few things leaked out from the "injured" players that they were totally healthy but not being allowed to play. The team's best player at the time was traded for a player coming off an injury who was immediately declared out for the remainder of the season. The end result was that instead of losing their 1st round pick they got Harrison Barnes, and they also got a lot of PT for young players they wanted to look at for the future (which, from the LONG list of guys they had turned out to be only Klay Thompson).

I think people who deny tanking exists, or deny that it works have not been paying attention.

Gregg Popovich who many hail as the top coach going knows the value of tanking ... it got him Tim Duncan and multiple titles.

LeBron ended up in Cleveland because of tanking.

People argue that you can't "know" that you will get a certain player ... but that doesn't matter because sometimes you do get a franchise changing star player, and that is worth so much more than another 0-4 first round playoff exit.

I don't know that I like what the 76ers are doing, I think 25 draft picks over the next 5 years is too much tanking ... but I kind of understand the motivation.

2-ONE-5
04-08-2015, 11:06 PM
its not like all 25 picks are going to be made though

Scoots
04-09-2015, 01:28 AM
its not like all 25 picks are going to be made though

Huh?

slashsnake
04-09-2015, 05:30 AM
Amin Elhassan said the Warriors were definitely tanking in 2007 when they lost to the Suns at the end of the season. At the time he was working in the front office for the Suns and he said there is no question ... it's possible the Warriors told him straight out they were not going to win the game. I don't know. That game made the difference between the Warriors facing the Mavs in the first round or not ... they lost, faced the Mavs and beat them. It happened. Tanking happens.

The Warriors again a few years ago started having little injuries become injuries that kept players out for months, they went through dozens of players/lineups. During this "horribly injury plagued season" a few things leaked out from the "injured" players that they were totally healthy but not being allowed to play. The team's best player at the time was traded for a player coming off an injury who was immediately declared out for the remainder of the season. The end result was that instead of losing their 1st round pick they got Harrison Barnes, and they also got a lot of PT for young players they wanted to look at for the future (which, from the LONG list of guys they had turned out to be only Klay Thompson).

I think people who deny tanking exists, or deny that it works have not been paying attention.

Gregg Popovich who many hail as the top coach going knows the value of tanking ... it got him Tim Duncan and multiple titles.

LeBron ended up in Cleveland because of tanking.

People argue that you can't "know" that you will get a certain player ... but that doesn't matter because sometimes you do get a franchise changing star player, and that is worth so much more than another 0-4 first round playoff exit.

I don't know that I like what the 76ers are doing, I think 25 draft picks over the next 5 years is too much tanking ... but I kind of understand the motivation.

Agreed, out here in Denver they threw out a question of what team would you rather want to be a fan of over the next 5 years? Philly or Denver. Obviously Philly with future stars has a good reason there.

Philly is taking it to a new level though. Brian Hill was kind of screwed the minute Robinson was lost for the year and Sean Elliott was hurt. Hill was coaching for his job and not really resting any guys. Pop really didn't shut down much either.. Guys like Dominique, Del Negro, Avery Johnson etc. who weren't the young ones but the ones they were planning on relying on, still were playing big minutes all year.

Same with Cleveland. Cleveland was a bit of each. Sure going into that year they traded Wesley Person, Andre Miller, and Lamond Murray but they added Darius Miles and Ricky Davis. Miles obviously worked out horribly, oversleeping for meetings and such. But they still played their best guys as Smart and Lucas wanted to keep their jobs.

2-ONE-5
04-09-2015, 08:36 AM
Huh?

" I think 25 draft picks over the next 5 years is too much tanking ... but I kind of understand the motivation. "

all those picks will not be used by the Sixers, just assets to make bigger and better deals when the time is right or if we get hosed in the lotto

Daze9900
04-09-2015, 08:37 AM
I think it depends on what your team philosophy is. Are you trying to rebuild or reload? If you're blowing up your roster then obviously you want to build through the draft and give yourself the best chance to get the player you're targeting. Example Knicks, Celtics, Pacers. My knicks need to tank and get franchise player if they can. The celtics barely making the playoffs is not a bad thing it increases their chances of signing a free agent maybe like Kevin Love over other teams and they can either flip the pick for a piece to add if they did sign someone. The Pacers are just a point guard away from being back to being a contending team imo so why not make the playoffs? Both strategies can be good if the right decisions are being made

Daze9900
04-09-2015, 08:40 AM
Like i feel Miami hit the panic button when they did the Dragic deal but hey they didn't want to go through losing since Dwade is on the back end and if they tanked who would they take that would be better than dragic? they have whiteside which eliminates the need for okafor or towns and they have deng on the wing and a rookie pg would take time to become as good or better than chalmers or dragic and wouldn't put them in a better position. Reload was good here

Scoots
04-09-2015, 11:28 AM
" I think 25 draft picks over the next 5 years is too much tanking ... but I kind of understand the motivation. "

all those picks will not be used by the Sixers, just assets to make bigger and better deals when the time is right or if we get hosed in the lotto

Oh right ... yes of course, but I would think that by now Hinkie could have stopped acquiring "assets" and building a team. I wasn't that big a fan of MCW so that move didn't bug me, but some of his moves were definitely shady ... like bringing in a couple vets at the last minute to get up to the minimum cap and to not pay that money to the guys who had been there all year was not a "team building" move. The players could have been left to go to a team they wanted to go to and the Sixers could have payed their players a bit more.

2-ONE-5
04-09-2015, 11:31 AM
McGee wasnt traded for to hit the floor, it was in hopes to flip him for more, like the AK47 deal but just didnt workout bcuz no one wants McGee. Def didnt make sense to give him a full buyout but we didnt reach the floor last year so id doubt thats why the move was made.

Scoots
04-09-2015, 11:35 AM
Like i feel Miami hit the panic button when they did the Dragic deal but hey they didn't want to go through losing since Dwade is on the back end and if they tanked who would they take that would be better than dragic? they have whiteside which eliminates the need for okafor or towns and they have deng on the wing and a rookie pg would take time to become as good or better than chalmers or dragic and wouldn't put them in a better position. Reload was good here

I was on the Warriors forum saying they should pick up Whiteside before he was with the Heat and having to argue that he was getting a lot better quickly. Nobody believed me. I don't think he can maintain what he's done this year, but he's clearly a lot better than anything the Heat had. I thought the Dragic move was genius (when will Pat retire?). It's not outrageous to say that the Heat when healthy have one of the top starting 5s in the NBA with Dragic, Wade, Deng, Bosh, and Whiteside.

Scoots
04-09-2015, 11:51 AM
McGee wasnt traded for to hit the floor, it was in hopes to flip him for more, like the AK47 deal but just didnt workout bcuz no one wants McGee. Def didnt make sense to give him a full buyout but we didnt reach the floor last year so id doubt thats why the move was made.

Who was picked up off the waiver wire just before the deadline who did get the team to the floor though? I can't remember. Was it Thomas Robinson? I think that's who it was.

Also KJ McDaniels was an interesting player who they may regret giving up so soon.

aLau10
04-09-2015, 12:04 PM
just curious, as a fan...what would you rather want? Pretty much would you rather be this years Celtics or 76ers?

I have always been in favor of tanking if you are in position where you know you have no chance of a title...but most people seem to disagree. Thoughts?

I've always had the same mentality until recently. Like yes, why bother winning games if you are not going to win it all? May as well lose and get a high pick. Sure enough there are plenty of people who would think alike to the "old" me. But there's something that we must understand, and that is this is not only a sport its a business. Tanking is bad for a franchise all together, and I'll list a few things that gets affected:

1) Ticket sales - who wants to watch a losing team?
2) Development of current/young players - how do you expect these guys to get valuable experience and learn the "winning mentality"
3) Keep tossing your veterans for picks, whos going to lead the team?
4) Losing team does not win the hearts of free agents
5) Similar to point #1 but Financial issues

These are just to list a few, but it is true. Not to mention as much as a top pick gives you the best opportunity to draft great talent, but it does not necessarily guarantee you a franchise/elite player. As history proves, there has been many bust type of player picked in the lottery, and many players outside of the lottery becoming great players. The ratio for that is quite surprising too. I know many of you would say something along the lines "there are definitely more franchise players or elite players in lottery than outside", like i said the ratio is quite surprising, you'll have to google. But another aspect that you have to consider is the team's capability to scout and pick top talent. If the team has ****** scouts, even if you have a 1st overall pick you will select a Arujao? Kwame? Bennet? LOL

So yeah, if I had to choose I rather push for playoffs and draft with the pick I get.

2-ONE-5
04-09-2015, 12:33 PM
Who was picked up off the waiver wire just before the deadline who did get the team to the floor though? I can't remember. Was it Thomas Robinson? I think that's who it was.

Also KJ McDaniels was an interesting player who they may regret giving up so soon.

KJ was horrible no denying that. Robinson was a value move though (a good one so far too), we have been calling for a T-Rob move for 2 years in our forum.

Scoots
04-09-2015, 01:52 PM
KJ was horrible no denying that. Robinson was a value move though (a good one so far too), we have been calling for a T-Rob move for 2 years in our forum.

But is there any chance he is there next year? From the outside it looked like a move to screw the rest of the roster out of some money and the screw the Nets (supposedly he had signed a deal to play in NJ)

2-ONE-5
04-09-2015, 03:50 PM
But is there any chance he is there next year? From the outside it looked like a move to screw the rest of the roster out of some money and the screw the Nets (supposedly he had signed a deal to play in NJ)

he never signed a deal with BK nor did he ever even clear waivers. we had a roster spot open that needed to be filled and he was the perfect candidate. His play says he should be back but one of our beat writers was suggesting he doesnt think it will happen, apparently Coach Brown isnt too fond of him for some reason

Scoots
04-09-2015, 04:58 PM
he never signed a deal with BK nor did he ever even clear waivers. we had a roster spot open that needed to be filled and he was the perfect candidate. His play says he should be back but one of our beat writers was suggesting he doesnt think it will happen, apparently Coach Brown isnt too fond of him for some reason

Supposedly he did sign a deal with the Nets before he cleared waivers, but it was never valid because the Sixers claimed him.

At any rate, the sixers are going to be interesting in a few years.

2-ONE-5
04-09-2015, 10:12 PM
well you cant sign a deal if you haven't cleared waivers, it was just reported that the Nets intended to sign him if he had cleared. This draft is huge and its not shaping up the way he hoped at the moment as it looks like we will miss out on the Lakers, Thunder, and Heat picks. Fully expected to get that Het pick but with tonights stinker its not looking good

Scoots
04-09-2015, 11:56 PM
well you cant sign a deal if you haven't cleared waivers, it was just reported that the Nets intended to sign him if he had cleared. This draft is huge and its not shaping up the way he hoped at the moment as it looks like we will miss out on the Lakers, Thunder, and Heat picks. Fully expected to get that Het pick but with tonights stinker its not looking good

You can always sign a deal, the NBA just won't finalize it. It may be good to move some picks into the future. If the Sixers got all 4 of their first round picks they would have to overpay to trade them ... or they could draft 4 players and get even younger :)

Which veteran PG do you want to sign in the offseason? I think that's the Sixers #1 need.

2-ONE-5
04-10-2015, 08:42 AM
i dont expect a vet PG since we never got one for MCW but would have loved and still would love to bring Nelson home for a year or 2. Hoping that Peirre Jackson is healthy and can return to take Canaans place next year. I think we end up drafting Mudday or Russell and have either start at the point with wroten at the 2 but none us really know anything at this point.

NYSpirit1
04-10-2015, 10:03 AM
The East should be much more competitive next year. If the Knicks make a bunch of moves/draft Towns or Okafor, the Bulls finally get healthy, George comes back strong on the Pacers and Bosh on the Heat, then the top six will consist of:

Cavs, Bulls, Pacers, Knicks, Hawks and Heat

The fact the Celtics tried tanking and now are about to make the playoffs is utterly pathetic.

crewfan13
04-10-2015, 10:11 AM
I've always had the same mentality until recently. Like yes, why bother winning games if you are not going to win it all? May as well lose and get a high pick. Sure enough there are plenty of people who would think alike to the "old" me. But there's something that we must understand, and that is this is not only a sport its a business. Tanking is bad for a franchise all together, and I'll list a few things that gets affected:

1) Ticket sales - who wants to watch a losing team?
2) Development of current/young players - how do you expect these guys to get valuable experience and learn the "winning mentality"
3) Keep tossing your veterans for picks, whos going to lead the team?
4) Losing team does not win the hearts of free agents
5) Similar to point #1 but Financial issues

These are just to list a few, but it is true. Not to mention as much as a top pick gives you the best opportunity to draft great talent, but it does not necessarily guarantee you a franchise/elite player. As history proves, there has been many bust type of player picked in the lottery, and many players outside of the lottery becoming great players. The ratio for that is quite surprising too. I know many of you would say something along the lines "there are definitely more franchise players or elite players in lottery than outside", like i said the ratio is quite surprising, you'll have to google. But another aspect that you have to consider is the team's capability to scout and pick top talent. If the team has ****** scouts, even if you have a 1st overall pick you will select a Arujao? Kwame? Bennet? LOL

So yeah, if I had to choose I rather push for playoffs and draft with the pick I get.

But that gets old after a while too. This is coming from a Bucks fan who watched us toil in futility for many years. We were almost always either battling for the 7-8 seed or missing the playoffs by a few spots for a couple years. By the time the last year of that came (two years ago) we were making the playoffs as the 8 seed with a losing record. We were going to play Miami in the first round, and everyone knew we were going to get demolished. By the end of that season, you couldn't give away tickets. I went to probably 10 games that season and paid less than $50 total for all of the tickets, often times getting them for nothing and rarely were they even in the upper levels. After a while fans quit wanting to watch the same old crap being tossed out on the floor every night. Even if you're making the playoffs, only get to swept or maybe win one game, fans will quit supporting that team too, especially if you're a .500 or below team with no real future.

And compare that to last year, even though we lost the most games in the league, our attendance at the end of the year really wasn't even that bad compared to the season before. We had an exciting young player in Giannis, and some other solid young guys who played hard in Middleton, Knight and others.

Maybe this is just Bucks fans, or maybe it was our situation, but I think fans can grasp the concept of sucking to be good better than just trying to stay in purgatory. To fans, staying in purgatory seemed like a cash grab to make some money on a few playoff games. Rebuilding and drafting young players who played hard seems like an attempt to build a winning team. I think in some circumstances people would rather come out to see that than a team in purgatory.

Scoots
04-10-2015, 01:28 PM
i dont expect a vet PG since we never got one for MCW but would have loved and still would love to bring Nelson home for a year or 2. Hoping that Peirre Jackson is healthy and can return to take Canaans place next year. I think we end up drafting Mudday or Russell and have either start at the point with wroten at the 2 but none us really know anything at this point.

That team is desperate for vet leadership from the guard position ... well everywhere really :)

I guess if they sign some decent mid-level vets in the offseason it will signal the end of the tanking.

2-ONE-5
04-10-2015, 01:38 PM
dont count on it. J-Rich might stay but i expect at least him or Boute gone (pref the ladder). We know going into next year we have Grant, Covington, Noel, Embiid, Aldemeir, Thompson, McCrae (played in australlia and now on D league team), Wroten. Sims is a RFA, Canaan, Robinson and Ish Smith have non guaranteed deals but I would glady bring Ish and T-Rob back but have no idea on either. Plus Saric could be bought out of his deal and at least one rookie will be on the team but I would expect at least 2 with us finding a good player in the 2nd like with KJ

Corey
04-10-2015, 01:50 PM
Unless you're a young team on the upswing that has already been through the suck-stage and acquired top young talent, there's no point in being a fringe team.

The Celtics are stuck in mediocrity right now. Not good enough to do damage, not bad enough for a top pick.

Hopefully they can trade for a star.

Scoots
04-10-2015, 02:53 PM
The Celtics future draft prospects are not based just on their record. They almost have as many future picks as the Sixers. It looks to me like the Celtics have the perfect group of team members but no star.

CELTICS4LYFE
04-10-2015, 03:10 PM
I think the biggest benefit from the Celtics making the playoffs is to showcase some of the players. Raise trade stock. Ex. Evan Turner, Jae Crowder, Zeller etc.

What's that show called Barter kings or something? Angie would be great on that.

Any rebuild requires luck. You can tank and end up with either a Durant or a Oden.

I don't think there is a right or wrong way. Just different approaches

ManRam
04-10-2015, 09:59 PM
All I have to say is: no team in contention for the 8th seed is "tanking".

End of story. Boston wants it. Brooklyn wants it. Indy wants it. Miami wants it. OKC wants it. New Orleans wants it. Phoenix wanted it.


We're making a bigger deal out of "tanking" that what's worth it. It seems like today if you're not a great team everyone assumes you're "tanking". There have always been bad teams. There will always be bad teams. There will always be bad teams. Not everything is "tanking".


And yes, I'd rather be the 8th seed in the West than have the 14th best odds in the lottery. People pretend like being an 8th seed is the worst thing. The worst thing is getting the 14th overall pick.

Scoots
04-10-2015, 10:07 PM
All I have to say is: no team in contention for the 8th seed is "tanking".

End of story. Boston wants it. Brooklyn wants it. Indy wants it. Miami wants it. OKC wants it. New Orleans wants it. Phoenix wanted it.

But the front office may just be bad at executing their planned tanking by getting too good a coach or just too much talent to successfully tank. I don't believe the coaches or the players are trying to lose, but the front offices do try to tank.

ManRam
04-10-2015, 10:20 PM
But the front office may just be bad at executing their planned tanking by getting too good a coach or just too much talent to successfully tank. I don't believe the coaches or the players are trying to lose, but the front offices do try to tank.

That's the thing. People refer to "tanking" as a concerted effort to lose an individual game. None of the players or coaches on any of those teams are content with losing games. Maybe management is more concerned with the future, but since when is that a bad thing?


The term "tanking" is used far too liberally these days. There's nothing wrong with playing for the future. There is everything wrong with trying to lose individual games...but that SOOOOO very rarely happens.

The tanking epidemic is a fake problem.

Scoots
04-11-2015, 01:36 AM
That's the thing. People refer to "tanking" as a concerted effort to lose an individual game. None of the players or coaches on any of those teams are content with losing games. Maybe management is more concerned with the future, but since when is that a bad thing?


The term "tanking" is used far too liberally these days. There's nothing wrong with playing for the future. There is everything wrong with trying to lose individual games...but that SOOOOO very rarely happens.

The tanking epidemic is a fake problem.

I didn't say it was a problem at all, but the effort by the front office for teams that are tanking IS to lose games ... as many as possible without hamstringing the future of the team. In general in those situations the coaches and the players (the ones being allowed to play) are trying to win.

Losing individual games by organizational choice (some would call it tanking the game) happens fairly often too. The Warriors played without 5 players this year by choice ... and lost the game. The coach chose that game to not matter. The coaches tried to win the game and the players tried to win the game, but it was within artificial self imposed rules where they don't have 5 of their top 7 players.

It's like in Formula 1 racing there was "team orders" where one driver was instructed to run in a certain way to more likely insure the success of the team, even if that meant blocking opponents and giving up on track positions to their teammate ... that's the way it was done for decades. Then people started to find it offensive so they made it against the rules ... it still happens all the time, it's just now they do it with a secret code like "slow down to cool brakes" coming over the radio. NBA tanking is the same thing ... it's bad for PR so of course the NBA word is that it's not happening, but there can be no doubt that the Sixers front office is not building a team to win the current season or the next season, and they've been doing it for a while now. The Sixers, as an organization, are tanking.

Shlumpledink
04-11-2015, 03:23 AM
Winning should always be rewarded, losing on purpose is counter-intuitive to the sport.

Making the playoffs with a losing record is pitiful though when there are teams with winning records who didn't get in.

Kyben36
04-11-2015, 06:15 AM
bulls were fringe playoff teams prior to getting rose year in and year out. it was anoying, but fans still came to see the games, as owner, you have to try to win to sell tickets, but the truth is, i like the idea of the 76ers when they traded Holiday for 2 first. but they cant seem to put a team on the court still. you know. I take Tanking a year to get better though, fringe unless your young is unlikely to make it,

but then again, it depends, fringe playoff team like the OKC Thunder vs Fringe Nets is diferent too. OKC healthy has a chance, nets dont stand one IMO.

JLynn943
04-11-2015, 02:28 PM
It depends on the make up of your team. As a Kings fan, I don't think another young player is what we need. Maybe we could trade a high pick? I'd rather squeak into the playoffs this year. It'd help keep Cousins happy.

TDE
04-11-2015, 06:13 PM
Give the 15 bottom teams even odds, this would keep teams from wanting to lose 68 games every season. Reward the teams that are closer to making the playoffs by giving them extra cap space. Teams with the worst record should get penalize with cap flexibility. This system needs to have a double edge sword. "Damn if u do, damn if u dont"

2-ONE-5
04-11-2015, 07:13 PM
thats really stupid ^

Scoots
04-11-2015, 11:14 PM
Eliminate the draft and nobody will tank.

Triple_Ocho
04-12-2015, 12:28 AM
I would prefer my favorite team to barely squeak into the playoffs. Experience is always a plus. It also shows the team is competitive. It becomes more attractive to other FA's. For example... If a big name FA had his choice between Philly and Boston I can almost guarantee he would go to Boston.

A possible fix to tanking could be something like a post-playoff-elimination points system. The team that earns the most pts (most wins) after being eliminated would earn the first pick. Teams like the Knicks, Sixers, Lakers, Magic, etc. would have more opportunities to earn wins and improved their potential draft pick by winning... Obviously just an idea and could use some tweeking but it could make the entire season a lot more entertaining.

JV35
04-12-2015, 12:35 AM
Unless you have a realistic chance of a 8-seed beating a 1-seed, it's obvious tanking is better.

2-ONE-5
04-12-2015, 11:55 AM
I would prefer my favorite team to barely squeak into the playoffs. Experience is always a plus. It also shows the team is competitive. It becomes more attractive to other FA's. For example... If a big name FA had his choice between Philly and Boston I can almost guarantee he would go to Boston.

A possible fix to tanking could be something like a post-playoff-elimination points system. The team that earns the most pts (most wins) after being eliminated would earn the first pick. Teams like the Knicks, Sixers, Lakers, Magic, etc. would have more opportunities to earn wins and improved their potential draft pick by winning... Obviously just an idea and could use some tweeking but it could make the entire season a lot more entertaining.

ot even being a homer but thats just not true. its not like players are gonna go running to play with Thomas, Olynyck, or Sullinger. Not to say they would go run to play with Noel and Embiid either but at the moment Philly is def more attractive of a situation

mrblisterdundee
04-12-2015, 04:06 PM
I would rather the NBA incentivize teams trying their hardest to make the playoffs, such as Boston, Indiana, New Orleans, Phoenix and Russell West- I mean, the Thunder. The NBA tried to do that with lottery reform. But of course the tanks won while still ripping their fans off, because the lottery system is broken and demands an equally broken response to win.

2-ONE-5
04-12-2015, 04:24 PM
who is to say the Kings, Magic, Pistons, etc didnt try their hardest but just really struggled?

BornReady
04-13-2015, 01:00 AM
tanking is for the weak

Scoots
04-13-2015, 11:11 AM
ot even being a homer but thats just not true. its not like players are gonna go running to play with Thomas, Olynyck, or Sullinger. Not to say they would go run to play with Noel and Embiid either but at the moment Philly is def more attractive of a situation

I don't see why Philly would be more attractive. For city I'd prefer Boston, for the fans I'd prefer Boston (not that Phily doesn't have good fans, but they are more hypercritical), for front office I'd prefer Boston as they are less likely to continue tanking next year and the next and Hinkie has several times said one thing and done the opposite shortly after, for head coach I'd prefer Boston too.

Philly has more draft picks and maybe more potential young talent, but that's not a big draw for most free agents.

2-ONE-5
04-13-2015, 11:55 AM
potential young talent is more than what Boston has to offer really from the player side, they have a bunch of decent role players. As far as the cities, fans, market, etc Philly and Boston are pretty close/similar plus we have more money to offer (i believe) and a direction/plan. but it doesnt really matter bcuz it seems like boston is banking on making a trade splash before a FA one with how the team is constructed.

Scoots
04-13-2015, 12:53 PM
potential young talent is more than what Boston has to offer really from the player side, they have a bunch of decent role players. As far as the cities, fans, market, etc Philly and Boston are pretty close/similar plus we have more money to offer (i believe) and a direction/plan. but it doesnt really matter bcuz it seems like boston is banking on making a trade splash before a FA one with how the team is constructed.

I don't see, from not being a fan of either team, how a Sixers fan can say Boston has no direction/plan.

Do you think Brett Brown is going to survive the tanking as coach? I'm pretty sure Stevens is going to stay around.

2-ONE-5
04-13-2015, 01:26 PM
I don't see, from not being a fan of either team, how a Sixers fan can say Boston has no direction/plan.

Do you think Brett Brown is going to survive the tanking as coach? I'm pretty sure Stevens is going to stay around.

i can say with certainty that Brown will be extended when his 4 years are completed. Whgat exactly is Bostons plan though? It seemed to be a tank plan before the season and then again after moving Green and Rondo

Scoots
04-13-2015, 03:23 PM
i can say with certainty that Brown will be extended when his 4 years are completed. Whgat exactly is Bostons plan though? It seemed to be a tank plan before the season and then again after moving Green and Rondo

Well, no, you can't say it with certainty since even Hinkie can't say it with certainty.

What exactly is Hinkie's plan? Do you know what it is exactly? My question to you was how can you say Boston doesn't have a plan.

2-ONE-5
04-13-2015, 04:15 PM
I know exactly what hinkies plan, i have been watching in action for 2 full years now. we have been developing young players and making value trades while stockpiling cap space and assets to make a big move when the time is right. I dont know where you are getting Hinkie wont say that Brown will be back since he doesnt speak to the media more than 1-2x a year and that never came up. I also said Bostons plan seems to be a big trade move if they can find one but short of that they dont have much going for them outside of a quick first round exit and a team led my Sullinger and Thomas

Scoots
04-13-2015, 04:55 PM
I know exactly what hinkies plan, i have been watching in action for 2 full years now. we have been developing young players and making value trades while stockpiling cap space and assets to make a big move when the time is right. I dont know where you are getting Hinkie wont say that Brown will be back since he doesnt speak to the media more than 1-2x a year and that never came up. I also said Bostons plan seems to be a big trade move if they can find one but short of that they dont have much going for them outside of a quick first round exit and a team led my Sullinger and Thomas

No, you can speculate on Hinkie's plan, you don't KNOW jack. Did you know he'd go for JaVale? Did you know when he said JaVale was going to be a veteran leader who was going to stay with the team that he'd be off the team shortly? I suspected MCW would be traded this year, but I don't think anybody knew it was going to happen, including Hinkie.

I didn't say that I know Hinkie won't say he's keeping Brown, I said that Hinkie can't say it with certainty. For instance, what if next year Gregg Popovich comes to him and says he wants to coach the hot new 76ers ... is Hinkie going to tell him no or is he going to say yes? Do you KNOW? My guess is even Hinkie doesn't KNOW what he'd do in that situation.

2-ONE-5
04-13-2015, 07:58 PM
No, you can speculate on Hinkie's plan, you don't KNOW jack. Did you know he'd go for JaVale? Did you know when he said JaVale was going to be a veteran leader who was going to stay with the team that he'd be off the team shortly? I suspected MCW would be traded this year, but I don't think anybody knew it was going to happen, including Hinkie.

I didn't say that I know Hinkie won't say he's keeping Brown, I said that Hinkie can't say it with certainty. For instance, what if next year Gregg Popovich comes to him and says he wants to coach the hot new 76ers ... is Hinkie going to tell him no or is he going to say yes? Do you KNOW? My guess is even Hinkie doesn't KNOW what he'd do in that situation.

no i do KNOW the plan, like i said im watching it. McGee falls right into what i said it just didnt workout how Hinkie hoped by him having 0 value around the league even with his deal paid off. Hinkie said numerous times he never shopped MCW and turned down several daels for him after his first game but felt the deal was too good to pass up. I believe there was a 2nd deal or something of the sort discussed to get Brown to sign givin the situation he was walking into and he has done wonders with the p;layer development side since day 1 here.

Scoots
04-13-2015, 08:32 PM
no i do KNOW the plan, like i said im watching it. McGee falls right into what i said it just didnt workout how Hinkie hoped by him having 0 value around the league even with his deal paid off. Hinkie said numerous times he never shopped MCW and turned down several daels for him after his first game but felt the deal was too good to pass up. I believe there was a 2nd deal or something of the sort discussed to get Brown to sign givin the situation he was walking into and he has done wonders with the p;layer development side since day 1 here.

You're not getting it. Unless Hinkie is telling you what he's doing for some reason then you don't know, you know? The general plan is clear ... suck, acquire assets, when the assets are good enough attempt to stop sucking. But how it's going to be executed is a mystery to everyone outside of the NBA and probably large portions are unknown to Hinkie himself since he doesn't know when he's going to get lucky. It's, as Bill Simmons says, the greatest plan a GM ever had to not get fired.