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View Full Version : Do you agree with ESPN's PG rankings?



RLundi
04-01-2015, 08:04 PM
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/12563832/nba-espn-nba-forecast-ranks-nba-starting-point-guards-no-1-chris-paul-no-30-dante-exum

The point guards were based on a variety of subjects for a holistic score- leadership, defense, playmaking and scoring. Here's how the floor generals measured up:

1. Chris Paul
2. Steph Curry
3. Russell Westbrook
4. John Wall
5. Mike Conley

6. Damian Lillard
7. Kyle Lowry
8. Tony Parker
9. Kyrie Irving
10. Jeff Teague

11. Derrick Rose
12. Ricky Rubio
13. Goran Dragic
14. Eric Bledsoe
15. Ty Lawson
16. Jrue Holiday
17. Kemba Walker
18. George Hill
19. Rajon Rondo
20. Darren Collison

21. Deron Williams
22. Jose Calderon
23. Michael Carter-Williams
24. Patrick Beverly
25. Reggie Jackson
26. Marcus Smart
27. Elfrid Payton
28. Jeremy Lin
29. Isaiah Canaan
30. Dante Exum

For me, Lin's ranking stood out egregiously. I was shocked to see him listed so low, right behind two rookies having underwhelming seasons. Is Lin really that bad? Or is it hate and piling on from just having a miserable season?

Do you agree with the top 10? Top 5? Does anything stand out to you? Anything you particularly disagree with?

Discuss.

WaDe03
04-01-2015, 08:08 PM
Prodigy greatly disagrees with Irving's ranking.

Avenged
04-01-2015, 08:14 PM
Curry #1

Shammyguy3
04-01-2015, 08:22 PM
It's actually not that bad. Curry over CP3, but the rest of the top-10 looks decent (obviously one can argue for a player or another). The worst thing on this list is Rose at 11 and Rubio at 12. Drop each of those guys 6 spots or so and the list is more accurate.

More-Than-Most
04-01-2015, 08:30 PM
When will the Rubio love die. Like Jesus christ.

Chronz
04-01-2015, 08:59 PM
Aside from Curry and Westbrook being behind CP3, this is a GREAT list. I can see why some want to give CP3 the benefit of the doubt but Curry has been something else this year. Even on defense.

nastynice
04-01-2015, 09:12 PM
lowry above 8, 9, and 10?? I don't know about that...

slaker619
04-01-2015, 09:16 PM
1. Westbrook(Hard for me to admit)
2. Curry
3. Paul
4. Irving
5. Teague(Can't sleep on him)

Can debate 5 with Wall, Lillard, Conley(Slept on as well)

jerellh528
04-01-2015, 09:25 PM
Lillard too low. Also jordan clarkson is arguably better right now than the Rookies up there but he won't be ranked because he's a second rounder

RenegadeRiot36
04-01-2015, 09:44 PM
Homer-ism aside, there is no way Irving should be anywhere less than 5, and I'd put him at 4 personally.

SeoulBeatz
04-01-2015, 09:46 PM
Lillard too low. Also jordan clarkson is arguably better right now than the Rookies up there but he won't be ranked because he's a second rounder

Clarkson should be @26. I can personally attest that he's better than Isaiah Canaan, who should not be on the list in the first place.

ewing
04-01-2015, 09:57 PM
Clarkson should be @26. I can personally attest that he's better than Isaiah Canaan, who should not be on the list in the first place.


well, if you come in person and attest, i'll believe it

jon32
04-01-2015, 10:07 PM
IMO Switch Curry #1, Paul #2

#1 Curry
#2 Paul
#3 Westbrook
#4 Wall
#5 Parker
#6 Lillard
#7 Conley
#8 Irving
# 9 Lowry
#10 Teague

TO Rapz
04-01-2015, 10:21 PM
1. Steph Curry
2. Russell Westbrook
3. Chris Paul

4. John Wall
5. Damian Lillard
6. Kyrie Irving
7. Tony Parker
8. Mike Conley
9. Kyle Lowry
10. Jeff Teague

11. Goran Dragic
12. Ty Lawson
13. Eric Bledsoe
14. Kemba Walker
15. Jrue Holiday
16. Isiah Thomas
17. Derrick Rose
18. George Hill
19. Rajon Rondo
20. Darren Collison


21. Brandon Knight
22. Deron Williams
23. Jose Calderon
24. Michael Carter-Williams
25. Patrick Beverly
26. Reggie Jackson
27. Avery Bradley
28. Ricky Rubio
29. Elfrid Payton
30. Jeremy Lin


I updated them, added a couple of guys, this is what my list looks like. I'm a Raptor fan and huge Lowry fan.

SportsFanatic10
04-01-2015, 10:23 PM
rose is way too high. that's the main issue that jumps out at me on first glance.

Minimal
04-02-2015, 02:26 PM
1. Westbrook
2. Curry
3. Paul
4. Irving
5. Wall

DitchDat
04-02-2015, 02:52 PM
Rondo at #19? That's not ok.

Vee-Rex
04-02-2015, 03:20 PM
My top 10. The ones with forward slashes can be arranged in any order IMO:

1. Steph Curry
2. Chris Paul
3. Russell Westbrook
4. Tony Parker (when playoff mode TP is going, he's unstoppable, so I'm going with TP when he decides to play his best)
5. John Wall/Kyrie Irving/Damian Lillard/Jeff Teague
6. Mike Conley/Kyle Lowry

Still love Dragic's game. I like Jrue Holiday, Brandon Knight, Reggie Jackson, and several others.

Cal827
04-02-2015, 03:33 PM
This list is a joke. George Hill should be higher than Irving.

JasonJohnHorn
04-02-2015, 04:03 PM
I'd put Irving over Parker right now.... and Rubio is far too high on that list, but other than that it seems find.

2-ONE-5
04-02-2015, 04:03 PM
its not a bad list but Hill is too high and Canaan shouldnt be on it since he sucks and isnt the Sixers PG anymore, i would replace him with Ish Smith who is much better. Personally I would have Conley and Wall in the 2nd tier and move Lowry ahead of them and Lillard

Tony_Starks
04-02-2015, 05:21 PM
Kyrie should be higher, replace Lin with Clarkson.

Chronz
04-02-2015, 05:28 PM
Kyrie should be higher, replace Lin with Clarkson.

Why?

cmellofan15
04-02-2015, 05:49 PM
This list is a joke. George Hill should be higher than Irving.

hahaha I completely agree



also, is health and/or consistency included in this ranking?

Tony_Starks
04-02-2015, 05:55 PM
Kyrie should be higher, replace Lin with Clarkson.

Why?

Watch a few Laker games then you tell me why.

Never mind, I'll save you the headache. He's already better than Lin will ever be.

HeatFan
04-02-2015, 05:55 PM
One thing that stands out to me is how hard Deron Williams has fallen. Just a few years ago he and Paul were 1-2 and now he is not even in the top 20. So much talent lost. Bet Mark Cuban is glad he didn't sign with the Mavs.

Tony_Starks
04-02-2015, 06:25 PM
One thing that stands out to me is how hard Deron Williams has fallen. Just a few years ago he and Paul were 1-2 and now he is not even in the top 20. So much talent lost. Bet Mark Cuban is glad he didn't sign with the Mavs.

Yep. I chalk that one up to work ethic. With all the skills he had he would never just bite the bullet and get in great shape. Then when the nagging injuries started piling up he couldn't.

I'm hopping they can get in the playoffs and he can at least give us a flashback game or two.

Chronz
04-02-2015, 06:56 PM
Watch a few Laker games then you tell me why.
I live with Laker fans, I have no choice but to watch a team clearly not trying to win. If they were, Lin would be getting more time.


Never mind, I'll save you the headache. He's already better than Lin will ever be.
You've saved me from nothing. You're still wrong. Pay attention to games outside of LA for reasons why.

Chronz
04-02-2015, 06:58 PM
Yep. I chalk that one up to work ethic. With all the skills he had he would never just bite the bullet and get in great shape. Then when the nagging injuries started piling up he couldn't.

I'm hopping they can get in the playoffs and he can at least give us a flashback game or two.

Chalking it up to work ethic would be unwise. CP3's work ethic isn't much better, some players just have a game that ages better and have less injury problems.

Tony_Starks
04-02-2015, 07:22 PM
Watch a few Laker games then you tell me why.
I live with Laker fans, I have no choice but to watch a team clearly not trying to win. If they were, Lin would be getting more time.


Never mind, I'll save you the headache. He's already better than Lin will ever be.
You've saved me from nothing. You're still wrong. Pay attention to games outside of LA for reasons why.

I'm good, thanks. Clarkson is already a better defender by light years (which admittedly isn't much of a accomplishment when compared to Lin), less turnover prone, a better finisher in the paint, better decision maker on the break.....I can go on and on, the only thing Lin has on him is a set jumper and that can be improved this summer.

As far as not playing Lin to tank, good one I needed that. Here's a stat for you stat guy: with Lin as the starting PG the Lakers gave up the most opponent PG points in the paint in the entire association. Which moved Scott to bench him for a PG that has no business starting but will at least play D, pretty much exactly what McHale did last season......he wasn't tanking either BTW.

Chronz
04-02-2015, 07:30 PM
I'm good, thanks. Clarkson is already a better defender by light years (which admittedly isn't much of a accomplishment when compared to Lin), less turnover prone, a better finisher in the paint, better decision maker on the break.....I can go on and on, the only thing Lin has on him is a set jumper and that can be improved this summer.
Agree to disagree. I dont believe a word you say unless you can back up your accusations with more than just opinion, I see no reason to ignore Lins entire career for a stretch where hes coming off the bench for a team not trying to win. Lin being more turnover prone is a result of him actually being an attack guard who knows how to pass the ball. The rest of your claims are either arguable or too close to call. Except Lin is actually a MUCH better shooter and has actually played relevant basketball. Wake me up when Clarkson has anything like that going for him.



As far as not playing Lin to tank, good one I needed that. Here's a stat for you stat guy: with Lin as the starting PG the Lakers gave up the most opponent PG points in the paint in the entire association. Which moved Scott to bench him for a PG that has no business starting but will at least play D, pretty much exactly what McHale did last season......he wasn't tanking either BTW.
McHale actually had reason. He had a ball dominant wing player who needed someone to compensate for his lack of defense. Lin in that role was STILL better than Clarkson. Its one thing to sit behind Beverly and still be considered his equal, its quite another when you have a team in tank mode playing the likes of whatshisface.

Just wondering tho, were you one of those Laker fans who actually believe the playoffs were realistic?

Chronz
04-02-2015, 07:34 PM
Here's a stat for you stat guy: with Lin as the starting PG the Lakers gave up the most opponent PG points in the paint in the entire association. Which moved Scott to bench him for a PG that has no business starting but will at least play D, pretty much exactly what McHale did last season......he wasn't tanking either BTW.

Also please dont call me a stat guy. Im the guy who tries to look at all the games he can + the stats. Unlike you, who thinks he can cite a single barren stat and think it carries any weight. I applaud the effort, really I do, it represents a step up for Laker fans, but why would I care about that statistic when lineups that include Lin have STILL fared better than lineups that include Clarkson?

ewing
04-03-2015, 12:30 AM
Chronz your high horse might be winning me over

Stunner
04-03-2015, 01:41 AM
Rondo is the worst pg in the league

basch152
04-03-2015, 05:58 PM
So, I haven't watched him in a few years, but what the **** happened to deron williams? The guy was possibly the best PG in the NBA at one point, if not he was second to CP3.

Also, to all the people that think Irving needs to be higher - he is not a true PG. He's a chucker, a good chucker, but chuckers don't tend to win you games.

Irving is fine where he is, I would take everyone listed above him before I took him, and I'd move Teague in front of him as well.

Same thing with Westbrook, sure he might fill up stat sheets, but what he does when the has so much usage does not do more to help his team win games than what Curry or Paul does.

Alayla
04-03-2015, 06:36 PM
Homer-ism aside, there is no way Irving should be anywhere less than 5, and I'd put him at 4 personally.

Irving is not a smart basketball player talented but not smart.

MonroeFAN
04-03-2015, 06:49 PM
Reggie Jackson has been an absolute G. He has lead the league in assists in a Pistons uniform and has an awesome offensive arsenal and incredible speed.

I won't rank him, because I don't want people to think I'm a homer, but yeah ****ing right at this list.

Stunner
04-03-2015, 06:51 PM
Reggie Jackson has been an absolute G. He has lead the league in assists in a Pistons uniform and has an awesome offensive arsenal and incredible speed.

I won't rank him, because I don't want people to think I'm a homer, but yeah ****ing right at this list.

He's was shooting horrible for like a 10 game stretch after the pistons traded for him and they were on a losing streak

Sadds The Gr8
04-03-2015, 06:51 PM
Rubio way too high....ahead of Bledsoe? Wtf?

Saddletramp
04-03-2015, 07:58 PM
Agree to disagree. I dont believe a word you say unless you can back up your accusations with more than just opinion, I see no reason to ignore Lins entire career for a stretch where hes coming off the bench for a team not trying to win. Lin being more turnover prone is a result of him actually being an attack guard who knows how to pass the ball. The rest of your claims are either arguable or too close to call. Except Lin is actually a MUCH better shooter and has actually played relevant basketball. Wake me up when Clarkson has anything like that going for him.



McHale actually had reason. He had a ball dominant wing player who needed someone to compensate for his lack of defense. Lin in that role was STILL better than Clarkson. Its one thing to sit behind Beverly and still be considered his equal, its quite another when you have a team in tank mode playing the likes of whatshisface.

Just wondering tho, were you one of those Laker fans who actually believe the playoffs were realistic?

Another thing about Lin being in the 2nd unit was that they needed a playmaker off the bench instead of a 3&D guy like Bev (well, kinda 3&2nd NBA D guy). It just fit the system better.

MonroeFAN
04-04-2015, 11:22 AM
Reggie Jackson has been an absolute G. He has lead the league in assists in a Pistons uniform and has an awesome offensive arsenal and incredible speed.

I won't rank him, because I don't want people to think I'm a homer, but yeah ****ing right at this list.

He's was shooting horrible for like a 10 game stretch after the pistons traded for him and they were on a losing streak

He was getting acclimated and comfortable. The guy has looked like a star in his last 10 games or so and it looks like this is who he is. His 3 point shot is falling and he can attack the lane like few others.

He's better than more than half of the point guards listed above him. That's fine though, continue to hate. He will continue to post gaudy numbers and our team will continue to play hard in both wins and losses.

Wait, you're a bulls fan right? Lol @ how easily he tore your big men up i the 4th last night. It took Pau landing a lucky follow up to beat us in the last second. How's that feel? Nearly losing to a non playoff team that apparently sucks according to you at home?

Trying to remember what reggie did the last time we played you guys. Ah that's right, 22 and 11 on elite efficiency in an absolute best down.

Stunner
04-04-2015, 11:56 AM
Rose didn't play either one of those games , so I would expect him to have the upper hand vs the Brooks and Kirks of the world .

And why are you bringing up the bulls pistons game , Lol to gloat ? Grow up


Reggie Jackson is cool but I was just pointing he wasn't really beasting all the time and you guys were on a bad losing streak after y'all traded for him .

MonroeFAN
04-04-2015, 12:00 PM
If it wasn't a malicious comment, then Im sorry. You have to understand, fans of the NBA no longer consider the whole "Rose didn't play" excuse valid anymore. Reggie Jackson, and most importantly the Pistons as a whole play your team hard. Just thought it was an odd comment to make.

Stunner
04-04-2015, 12:07 PM
Odd comment how ? I was discussing how Reggie wasn't beating for a long period of time . You brought up the bulls game



Anyway Reggie numbers this year as a piston aren't that much different from his OKC numbers other than playing 3 more mins per .

I don't think Reggie will ever reach top 10 PG status he 'll be around 15-20

Tony_Starks
04-04-2015, 12:09 PM
Here's a stat for you stat guy: with Lin as the starting PG the Lakers gave up the most opponent PG points in the paint in the entire association. Which moved Scott to bench him for a PG that has no business starting but will at least play D, pretty much exactly what McHale did last season......he wasn't tanking either BTW.

Also please dont call me a stat guy. Im the guy who tries to look at all the games he can + the stats. Unlike you, who thinks he can cite a single barren stat and think it carries any weight. I applaud the effort, really I do, it represents a step up for Laker fans, but why would I care about that statistic when lineups that include Lin have STILL fared better than lineups that include Clarkson?

Jordan Clarkson Western conference rookie of the month. 16,5,5 as a starter. 45% from the field, 84% from the line, 83 assist to 40 turnovers. 27, 7, 5 on Portland last night.

Stats from the Laker fans presented for your applause as we try to "step up."

Enjoy your Easter egg hunt!

Pakman
04-04-2015, 12:36 PM
Lol at someone trying to defend Lin. Every since NY he has been a scared puppy on the court. He's awful

prodigy
04-04-2015, 01:46 PM
Prodigy greatly disagrees with Irving's ranking.

I do but everyone has own opinions and that's ok, I mean how boring would life be if everyone agreed lol. Curry is clearing the best PG in basketball in my opinion. Wall, Conley and Lowry are def not better then Irving to me but that's ok. I'm a huge buckeye fan but conley? lol.

They put a lot of stock in PG's who are the teams main targets Paul, Curry, Westbrook, Wall are relied on to do everything. Either score or get credit for an assit. Cavs main guy is of course the best player in the game Lebron. So he's not asked to do as much.

Scoots
04-04-2015, 02:23 PM
Curry, Paul, Westbrook, Irving, and Wall are all excellent. I'd take Curry, but it's just because his game is pretty. Westbrook is a beast. Paul is so skilled at all of the parts of the PG game but I can't stand the attitude. Irving and Wall are as capable of taking over a game as Curry or Westbrook but they do it with speed.

Fact is it's WAY too early to call this competition one way or another.

5ass
04-04-2015, 03:23 PM
How do U measure leadership? What makes Irving a better leader than Payton? Payton does all the little things on the court (hustling, rebounding, ect) and controls the pace better than Kyrie. Not looking for an argument as to who is the better leader but what's the criteria here?

Vee-Rex
04-04-2015, 03:33 PM
How do U measure leadership? What makes Irving a better leader than Payton? Payton does all the little things on the court (hustling, rebounding, ect) and controls the pace better than Kyrie. Not looking for an argument as to who is the better leader but what's the criteria here?

I haven't seen much of Payton but I can say that Irving isn't that great of a leader. It's why he struggled so much last year. He thought being a leader was playing hero ball and his shooting percentages were lower.

ewing
04-04-2015, 03:35 PM
Curry, Paul, Westbrook, Irving, and Wall are all excellent. I'd take Curry, but it's just because his game is pretty. Westbrook is a beast. Paul is so skilled at all of the parts of the PG game but I can't stand the attitude. Irving and Wall are as capable of taking over a game as Curry or Westbrook but they do it with speed.

Fact is it's WAY too early to call this competition one way or another.

why no love for my boy Lillard? I take him over wall all day every day

FlashBolt
04-04-2015, 05:15 PM
How do U measure leadership? What makes Irving a better leader than Payton? Payton does all the little things on the court (hustling, rebounding, ect) and controls the pace better than Kyrie. Not looking for an argument as to who is the better leader but what's the criteria here?

Well, Elfrid is still a rookie with zero expectations while Kyrie had expectations to lead a team after losing LeBron. Eyes were on Kyrie since he was drafted. I'm not saying Kyrie is a great leader but he's not awful at is as well. He was just young and put into the big stage much too early. He's just 23 and has been growing every year. Kyrie does hustle btw.. he chased down a rebound and then threw it out on Dragic so Cavs could retain the ball. James being with Kyrie will certainly help mold him into becoming a better player.

jerellh528
04-04-2015, 05:56 PM
Well, Elfrid is still a rookie with zero expectations while Kyrie had expectations to lead a team after losing LeBron. Eyes were on Kyrie since he was drafted. I'm not saying Kyrie is a great leader but he's not awful at is as well. He was just young and put into the big stage much too early. He's just 23 and has been growing every year. Kyrie does hustle btw.. he chased down a rebound and then threw it out on Dragic so Cavs could retain the ball. James being with Kyrie will certainly help mold him into becoming a better player.

Agreed, I think james will pick up on some of kyrie's tenacity and fearlessness on the court.

jerellh528
04-04-2015, 05:59 PM
why no love for my boy Lillard? I take him over wall all day every day

I'm with you man. I have lillard right behind curry, westy, and cp3. I'm biased though, I'm a lillard homer

HeatFan
04-04-2015, 06:09 PM
Agreed, I think james will pick up on some of kyrie's tenacity and fearlessness on the court.

Lol

Scoots
04-04-2015, 08:09 PM
why no love for my boy Lillard? I take him over wall all day every day

Sorry, Lillard is from Oakland, can't leave him out ... but he just needs some more seasoning. He's a little inconsistent from the games I've watched end to end. But no doubt big skills and he's going to be challenging the top 5 soon.

Lowry, Teague, Dragic, and Conley were left out too. Rose healthy and playing like his old self would have a chance at the top 5. Parker I'll have to see it to believe it ... but it's a bad idea counting out any Spurs. And i like Payton's game a lot already. LaVine, Exum, Schroder, Smart, and Clarkson are all pushing to get into the next group up and they have the ability to do it if they develop. And this next draft will bring Mudiay and Russel and some more talent into the pool.

There are a LOT of quality PGs in the NBA right now ... more than I can ever remember. Thank you Steve Nash.

Scoots
04-04-2015, 08:10 PM
James hated Irvings game early this year and pouted about it. I wonder what he thinks now?

basch152
04-04-2015, 08:38 PM
I do but everyone has own opinions and that's ok, I mean how boring would life be if everyone agreed lol. Curry is clearing the best PG in basketball in my opinion. Wall, Conley and Lowry are def not better then Irving to me but that's ok. I'm a huge buckeye fan but conley? lol.

They put a lot of stock in PG's who are the teams main targets Paul, Curry, Westbrook, Wall are relied on to do everything. Either score or get credit for an assit. Cavs main guy is of course the best player in the game Lebron. So he's not asked to do as much.

I would take Wall a thousand times to start a team before I even considered taking Irving.

Again, Irving is a chucker, he does nothing to help his teammates become better. Chuckers fill up stat sheets all the time, but rarely does it translate to wins.

As a PG Irving is a fringe top 10 in the NBA.

ewing
04-04-2015, 08:45 PM
I'm with you man. I have lillard right behind curry, westy, and cp3. I'm biased though, I'm a lillard homer


me too, i cant see taking wall or Conley over him. I feel like i was on the Conley bandwagon before most but

MonroeFAN
04-04-2015, 10:10 PM
29 & 11 for Reggie tonight with 15 in the 4th quarter to bring us back and hit the eventual game winner.

Turnovers are a bit high lately, he didn't seem to have that problem when his team mates were hitting their shots (they aren't right now).

prodigy
04-05-2015, 11:17 AM
How do U measure leadership? What makes Irving a better leader than Payton? Payton does all the little things on the court (hustling, rebounding, ect) and controls the pace better than Kyrie. Not looking for an argument as to who is the better leader but what's the criteria here?

I've seen quite a few games of Payton and I love this kid. Kinda like a rondo. Hopefully he gets more of a offensive game. If he does wow! Irving over the last couple months I feel like has become much more of a leader. He hustles a lot, just last game Cavs were up on Miami by 15+ in 4th and Irving dived into stands and I was screaming at him to stop that lol. I don't care much for rebounding from a PG.

I love watching both, Not sure who a better leader is, prob neither right now.

prodigy
04-05-2015, 11:28 AM
I would take Wall a thousand times to start a team before I even considered taking Irving.

Again, Irving is a chucker, he does nothing to help his teammates become better. Chuckers fill up stat sheets all the time, but rarely does it translate to wins.

As a PG Irving is a fringe top 10 in the NBA.

lol ehh sounds like a hater here.

To start a team it depends what u need. Irving is underrated as a passer, I think people forget he had no help and still avg 6 assits a game last season. But Irving is def a score first PG that's his style and shouldn't be punished for that. Wall can't really do anything on the offensive end better then Kyrie other then pass. Wall is the better defender, But Irving has gotten better and better just ask Chris Paul, Conley, etc...

But I'd be happy with either starting a team. If u got a Lebron type player then Wall prob not the best choice.

roshan3ai
04-05-2015, 12:46 PM
Rubio way too high....ahead of Bledsoe? Wtf?

Why the **** did it take 39 posts for someone to mention Bledsoe. He gets shafted on this list IMO.

Scoots
04-05-2015, 01:35 PM
Why the **** did it take 39 posts for someone to mention Bledsoe. He gets shafted on this list IMO.

I thought about Bledsoe, but he's so inconsistent and the last few times I saw him he's been nearly invisible.

Maybe next year in a better more stable situation he'll rebound.