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View Full Version : Bron's Cav's compared to Bron's Heat teams?



ewing
04-01-2015, 03:59 PM
Who's better? Who's more talented? Who's win in a series?

Ty Fast
04-01-2015, 04:40 PM
It depends on what d wade your getting. The 1st year d wade was a top 5 player but the heat had no depth. When the heat got depth and a bench d wade declined.

ewing
04-01-2015, 04:47 PM
It depends on what d wade your getting. The 1st year d wade was a top 5 player but the heat had no depth. When the heat got depth and a bench d wade declined.


In year one you get year one Wade with year one supporting caste. In year 2 you get year 2 wade with....

J_M_B
04-01-2015, 04:50 PM
If the Cavs offense continues to produce the way they have since January then they're the better offense .. but Bron's Cavs don't even come close to competing with Miami's defense (excluding the 2013-2014 team)

IKnowHoops
04-01-2015, 05:05 PM
The only thing I like better about the Heat team was that Bron was younger then, and had more energy.

ManningToTyree
04-01-2015, 05:09 PM
Heat

FlashBolt
04-01-2015, 05:13 PM
Heat team was easily better. Specifically, their first ring run. Mike Miller was great. Shane Battier was a good defender. Udonis Haslem was a warrior. Wade didn't miss as many games and showed up when Bron needed him to. Bosh IMO was the most effective that season. And that was a very good year for Bron when he was healthy and just absolutely phenomenal on the defensive end. This Cavs team is still young, inexperienced, and James not being LeBron James isn't good.

Tony_Starks
04-01-2015, 05:16 PM
The Cavs have better depth and are younger but I'm still rolling with Wade, Bosh, and save the day Ray. Miami also had the benefit of having Wade as the leader and Riley in the front office.

FlashBolt
04-01-2015, 05:27 PM
The Cavs have better depth and are younger but I'm still rolling with Wade, Bosh, and save the day Ray. Miami also had the benefit of having Wade as the leader and Riley in the front office.

We all know who the leader was.... Stop pretending.

Tony_Starks
04-01-2015, 05:36 PM
The Cavs have better depth and are younger but I'm still rolling with Wade, Bosh, and save the day Ray. Miami also had the benefit of having Wade as the leader and Riley in the front office.

We all know who the leader was.... Stop pretending.

Lol yeah that's why Wade outperformed Lebron their first run in which Lebron had a epic Finals choke. A Finals which Wade would've been MVP had his teammate showed up. Lebron didn't become the leader until Wade gave him the keys as he knees declined.

You don't have to try so hard man, we know you love you some Lebron. Its OK.

slaker619
04-01-2015, 05:41 PM
Heat !!

J_M_B
04-01-2015, 05:54 PM
We all know who the leader was.... Stop pretending.

Ahahahaha don't kid yourself.

It became LeBron's team but there is no denying who the leader in that locker room was

FlashBolt
04-01-2015, 06:02 PM
Lol yeah that's why Wade outperformed Lebron their first run in which Lebron had a epic Finals choke. A Finals which Wade would've been MVP had his teammate showed up. Lebron didn't become the leader until Wade gave him the keys as he knees declined.

You don't have to try so hard man, we know you love you some Lebron. Its OK.

You make zero sense. We're talking about Miami in general through their four years. Where was Wade after that first NBA Finals? He was relatively useless in many games. James was the leader and we all know that. It's just Kobe lovers who want to discredit James and his ability to lead. If James wasn't the leader, why did James Jones and many others base their decisions off James free agency? Lol, give me a break.

FlashBolt
04-01-2015, 06:03 PM
Ahahahaha don't kid yourself.

It became LeBron's team but there is no denying who the leader in that locker room was

LeBron was the leader. He was the guy who made the team work. That's what the leader does; lead a team. How can Wade lead a team as efficient as James when he's on the bench? Haha.

ewing
04-01-2015, 06:16 PM
Josh Harrellson was the leader

Tony_Starks
04-01-2015, 06:19 PM
We all know who the leader was.... Stop pretending.

Ahahahaha don't kid yourself.

It became LeBron's team but there is no denying who the leader in that locker room was

Don't mind him, he's extremely defensive of Lebron. He's already started lining up excuses for when he loses this year before the playoffs even start.

FlashBolt
04-01-2015, 06:29 PM
Don't mind him, he's extremely defensive of Lebron. He's already started lining up excuses for when he loses this year before the playoffs even start.

Go ask Jerell. I've always been fair when it comes to players. You're just enamored with the fact that someone actually makes sense as opposed to you, who just makes ridiculous comments with zero proof. Example: You use their first year as proof as Wade being the leader but you completely ignore the last three seasons in which they were together. You're just a hater and all of PSD knows that. The funny part is I don't hate any player other than Rose, Bynum, guys who are detrimental to a team. You're just blatant about your hate. There is not a single positive thing that comes out from you in regards to LeBron. It's also fitting that I'm replying to someone who thought Kobe four-peated. But hey, what do I know? I've also stated numerous times that Cavs won't win because Spurs/GSW/Memphis are a better team. You just assume things and call me a LeBron defender because I call you out for your pointless retorts.

Vee-Rex
04-01-2015, 06:59 PM
Heat was the better team.

If Lebron maintains his effectiveness for 2 or 3 more years and Love stays, it could be different. Kyrie just turned 23 so he's not in his prime yet.

WaDe03
04-01-2015, 07:35 PM
Heat

LeBron was better, Wades better than Kyrie, Bosh fit in better than Love and did a lot of the dirty work and hit clutch shots, the defense was great and the offense was also very good. Also had veteran leadership and guys knew there roles and played well in them.

SportsFanatic10
04-01-2015, 10:04 PM
We all know who the leader was.... Stop pretending.

you are the one kidding your self. wade has always been the heart and soul of the heat...

http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.ca/2014/02/lebron-james-explains-how-dwyane-wade.html

lebron even admits wade taught him how to be a champ. wade is the one who sacrificed the most. that's what a champion does.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
04-01-2015, 10:11 PM
Have to see how this Cavs team does in a few year span to really compare them IMO.

L8kers4life
04-01-2015, 10:51 PM
you are the one kidding your self. wade has always been the heart and soul of the heat...

http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.ca/2014/02/lebron-james-explains-how-dwyane-wade.html

lebron even admits wade taught him how to be a champ. wade is the one who sacrificed the most. that's what a champion does.



Great article, hopefully Flashbolt doesnt read that, it mentions Kobe in the article and even mentions rings, those are huge no no's in his eyes..

With that being said, that was D wades team, and he was the only proven winner up to that point, DWade definitly sacrificed the most for that team. Before they teamed up, Wade and LeBron were on the same level, now somehow, people think LeBron is way better than Wade, except, Wade has more rings and has won with out LeBron. Had they not teamed up, Wades legacy would not have taken the hit, it now takes due to LeBron and him playing together.

FraziersKnicks
04-02-2015, 06:11 AM
Some people just love to post mindless **** on these forums without any evidence or proof... It always seems to be the same morons as well.....

FraziersKnicks
04-02-2015, 06:17 AM
Great article, hopefully Flashbolt doesnt read that, it mentions Kobe in the article and even mentions rings, those are huge no no's in his eyes..

With that being said, that was D wades team, and he was the only proven winner up to that point, DWade definitly sacrificed the most for that team. Before they teamed up, Wade and LeBron were on the same level, now somehow, people think LeBron is way better than Wade, except, Wade has more rings and has won with out LeBron. Had they not teamed up, Wades legacy would not have taken the hit, it now takes due to LeBron and him playing together.

The bolded parts are literally laughable. Wade and LeBron were on the same level until about year 5 in the league. Then LeBron just went MJ on the whole NBA.

As for the 2nd part, you do realise the chances are Wade wouldn't have won another ring without LeBron right? So you're saying Wade with 1 ring and 1 finals MVP has a better legacy than Wade with 3 rings and 1 finals MVP? There's a reason ABSOLUTELY NO ONE puts Wade above LeBron in the all-time rankings..... It's because he literally is nowhere near LeBron in terms of legacy. LeBron carried that Heat team to their 2 titles and was unquestionably the leader when they won.

I would absolutely love to see anyone try to create a coherent argument to Wade being better than LeBron... It would literally make my day.

omdigga
04-02-2015, 09:10 AM
The Heat defense would prevail. When they turned on the D it was hard for teams to get inside the 3 point line.

Tony_Starks
04-02-2015, 01:27 PM
The Heat defense would prevail. When they turned on the D it was hard for teams to get inside the 3 point line.


I don't know about that. You got Shump, Perkins, Thompson, Mozgov....even JR can lock up when he is focused. That's a sick defense to cover the wings and the paint plus throw Lebron in the mix playing free safety in the passing lanes.

I think if this squad had a full training camp together it would be one of the top defenses in the league. Kevin Love is a weak link but you can cover for him....

Chronz
04-02-2015, 02:56 PM
you are the one kidding your self. wade has always been the heart and soul of the heat...

http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.ca/2014/02/lebron-james-explains-how-dwyane-wade.html

lebron even admits wade taught him how to be a champ. wade is the one who sacrificed the most. that's what a champion does.

So does that mean Shaq was the real MVP of Wade's first ring?

SportsFanatic10
04-02-2015, 03:03 PM
So does that mean Shaq was the real MVP of Wade's first ring?

no, and i never said lebron wasn't mvp. my stance is lebron was the best player and wade was the one who pushed him to take on that role and took a step back. he was still the teams leader however, similar to shaq in 06.

it was lebron's team from the standpoint of being the teams best player, but wade was the heart and soul leader and team captain along with haslem.

Chronz
04-02-2015, 03:35 PM
no, and i never said lebron wasn't mvp. my stance is lebron was the best player and wade was the one who pushed him to take on that role and took a step back. he was still the teams leader however, similar to shaq in 06.

it was lebron's team from the standpoint of being the teams best player, but wade was the heart and soul leader and team captain along with haslem.

It was similar wasn't it. Just like then, Wade really had no choice. Im not sure we can call it a sacrifice when its whats best for his career, we already saw what happened to Wade's durability even when he pulled it back abit. Dude couldn't will the team to victory anymore so he asked Bron to stop sharing the ball with him. Big whoop.

Still not seeing the relevance here. Bron was FAR and away the teams most influential player and thats what counts most. For example, Haslem being a captain doesn't outweigh the fact that he was holding the team back with his heavy decline. Replace that "leader" with an actual player and Bron may still be in Miami.

Everyone learns something from those who have won.

L8kers4life
04-02-2015, 10:33 PM
The bolded parts are literally laughable. Wade and LeBron were on the same level until about year 5 in the league. Then LeBron just went MJ on the whole NBA.

As for the 2nd part, you do realise the chances are Wade wouldn't have won another ring without LeBron right? So you're saying Wade with 1 ring and 1 finals MVP has a better legacy than Wade with 3 rings and 1 finals MVP? There's a reason ABSOLUTELY NO ONE puts Wade above LeBron in the all-time rankings..... It's because he literally is nowhere near LeBron in terms of legacy. LeBron carried that Heat team to their 2 titles and was unquestionably the leader when they won.

I would absolutely love to see anyone try to create a coherent argument to Wade being better than LeBron... It would literally make my day.



First off, you do realize that LeBron would have 0 rings if he didnt team up with Wade and Bosh right? Secondly, I never said he was better than LeBron, I'm simply saying, before LeBron teamed up with Wade, they were on the same level. Wade had to take a back seat to LeBron their after the first ring, had they not teamed up, your correct, Wade would still have 1 ring and 1 finals MVP, but your boy LeBron would have 0 rings and 0 finals MVP's.

The coin can be flipped both ways, remember Bron came to Miami, not the other way around, LeBron did not feel hew could win a ring with out a proven winner and Wade was that guy. Had they not teamed up, Wade's legacy would not have taken a hit, because he would not have had to play second fiddle and he would still have his ring.

LeBron is better than Wade, but that wasnt my argument.

My question to you is, if Lebron didnt team up with Bosh and Wade, how many rings would he have, and where would his legacy be?

L8kers4life
04-02-2015, 10:37 PM
It was similar wasn't it. Just like then, Wade really had no choice. Im not sure we can call it a sacrifice when its whats best for his career, we already saw what happened to Wade's durability even when he pulled it back abit. Dude couldn't will the team to victory anymore so he asked Bron to stop sharing the ball with him. Big whoop.

Still not seeing the relevance here. Bron was FAR and away the teams most influential player and thats what counts most. For example, Haslem being a captain doesn't outweigh the fact that he was holding the team back with his heavy decline. Replace that "leader" with an actual player and Bron may still be in Miami.

Everyone learns something from those who have won.



Good point, but part of the reason Wade's durability came into question is because the Heat went to the finals every year and therefore he began to breakdown from so much wear and tear, had they not teamed up, obviously Wade would not have gone as deep in the playoffs, and therefore may not have been as banged up.

FlashBolt
04-02-2015, 10:38 PM
you are the one kidding your self. wade has always been the heart and soul of the heat...

http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.ca/2014/02/lebron-james-explains-how-dwyane-wade.html

lebron even admits wade taught him how to be a champ. wade is the one who sacrificed the most. that's what a champion does.

What the hell does that have to do with being the leader? That was Wade's team by reputation but it was clearly LeBron's team in terms of how the team ran. Plays went through James -- not Wade. James was the player who made things happen, not Wade. Players followed LeBron's lead, not Wade's. Wade has his loyalty in Miami but how many players were waiting for James to make a decision before they committed? Chris Bosh only budged to stay in Miami because they offered him an offer that was just too great.

Wade may have been a huge factor for James but maybe you should read more carefully. This is about who was the leader of the Heat those four seasons of basketball. To say it wasn't James is just a misnomer. Wade didn't sacrifice the most.. how the hell did he sacrifice the most when he was hobbled with injuries? How about this season in which Wade is still suffering from such injuries and can barely keep his team in playoff contention?

FraziersKnicks
04-03-2015, 06:18 AM
First off, you do realize that LeBron would have 0 rings if he didnt team up with Wade and Bosh right? Secondly, I never said he was better than LeBron, I'm simply saying, before LeBron teamed up with Wade, they were on the same level. Wade had to take a back seat to LeBron their after the first ring, had they not teamed up, your correct, Wade would still have 1 ring and 1 finals MVP, but your boy LeBron would have 0 rings and 0 finals MVP's.

No I don't realize that, because there's absolutely zero proof LeBron wouldn't have won a ring. Tell me what the Cavaliers records were the two seasons before LeBron left Cleveland... They won 66 and 61 games. In the weak East with LeBron entering his true prime saying for sure he wouldn't have won a ring without Wade and Bosh is an extremely bold prediction.


The coin can be flipped both ways, remember Bron came to Miami, not the other way around, LeBron did not feel hew could win a ring with out a proven winner and Wade was that guy. Had they not teamed up, Wade's legacy would not have taken a hit, because he would not have had to play second fiddle and he would still have his ring.

Can you find me a quote directly from LeBron where he said this or are you just making things up now? So you are saying Wade's legacy is greater with 1 ring than 3 rings because he played second fiddle to LeBron?


LeBron is better than Wade, but that wasnt my argument.

My question to you is, if Lebron didnt team up with Bosh and Wade, how many rings would he have, and where would his legacy be?

I don't have a clue and no one does, but there's one thing I do know. LeBron was the number 1 option on a team that made 4 straight finals appearances, winning two rings. From 2010-14 he was in his absolute prime (which is arguably one of the top 3 primes of all-time), and the East was a relatively weak conference. Please tell me why you're so sure LeBron wouldn't have won a ring if he hadn't gone to the Heat?

L8kers4life
04-03-2015, 02:10 PM
No I don't realize that, because there's absolutely zero proof LeBron wouldn't have won a ring. Tell me what the Cavaliers records were the two seasons before LeBron left Cleveland... They won 66 and 61 games. In the weak East with LeBron entering his true prime saying for sure he wouldn't have won a ring without Wade and Bosh is an extremely bold prediction.



Can you find me a quote directly from LeBron where he said this or are you just making things up now? So you are saying Wade's legacy is greater with 1 ring than 3 rings because he played second fiddle to LeBron?



I don't have a clue and no one does, but there's one thing I do know. LeBron was the number 1 option on a team that made 4 straight finals appearances, winning two rings. From 2010-14 he was in his absolute prime (which is arguably one of the top 3 primes of all-time), and the East was a relatively weak conference. Please tell me why you're so sure LeBron wouldn't have won a ring if he hadn't gone to the Heat?



I say he wouldnt have won a ring because the 6 years before Miami he won nothing, than with 2 other stars he struggled to win 2 rings. Had LeBron stayed in Cleveland, no one was coming to him there, he would not have won in Cleveland, heck LeBron very well could have gone 1 and 4 in the finals his whole career, had he not got bailed out by Ray Allen, your boy LeBron would only have 1 ring.

Also, I dont need to quote LeBron to tell you he needed help to win Championships, why the hell do you think he left Cleveland in the first place, just for the hell of it. LeBron needed Bosh and Wade the same way they needed LeBron.

Chronz
04-03-2015, 02:16 PM
Wade would have zero rings if Shaq didn't hate Kobe and Bron never showed. Is this stuff suppose to mean something? I could come up with a ton of reasons why players would never win rings, how does that matter again?

FlashBolt
04-03-2015, 02:29 PM
Wade would have zero rings if Shaq didn't hate Kobe and Bron never showed. Is this stuff suppose to mean something? I could come up with a ton of reasons why players would never win rings, how does that matter again?

Exactly. In this day and age, I think it's only proper for everyone to understand that winning rings take the right amount of players. How long did it take MJ again?

L8kers4life
04-03-2015, 02:37 PM
No I don't realize that, because there's absolutely zero proof LeBron wouldn't have won a ring. Tell me what the Cavaliers records were the two seasons before LeBron left Cleveland... They won 66 and 61 games. In the weak East with LeBron entering his true prime saying for sure he wouldn't have won a ring without Wade and Bosh is an extremely bold prediction.



Can you find me a quote directly from LeBron where he said this or are you just making things up now? So you are saying Wade's legacy is greater with 1 ring than 3 rings because he played second fiddle to LeBron?



I don't have a clue and no one does, but there's one thing I do know. LeBron was the number 1 option on a team that made 4 straight finals appearances, winning two rings. From 2010-14 he was in his absolute prime (which is arguably one of the top 3 primes of all-time), and the East was a relatively weak conference. Please tell me why you're so sure LeBron wouldn't have won a ring if he hadn't gone to the Heat?


Wade would have zero rings if Shaq didn't hate Kobe and Bron never showed. Is this stuff suppose to mean something? I could come up with a ton of reasons why players would never win rings, how does that matter again?



This is in response to Frazier Knicks saying LeBron would have rings had he not teamed up. I simply saying had LeBron not gone to Miami, he would have 0 rings at this point. That really is not saying much, Kobe would not have had his rings without Shaq and Pau. This whole thing is stupid, I'm tired of leBron fans, giving LeBron all the credit for everything. He Never won in Cleveland, he teamed up with Bosh and Wade to win rings, then he left Miami, because he knew Wade and Bosh were on the decline, so he goes to a team with young talent and forced Clevelands hand to trade for Love, but tried to pretend all of it was for him to simply come home, its bull ****. The fact that Frazier Knicks is 100 percent convinced leBron would have won a ring had he not teamed up is pretty comical. He would not even acknowledge the possibility of LeBron having 0 rings.

Also comparing Shaq getting traded to Miami while he was on the decline, is not the same as LeBron, Wade and Bosh coluding to form the big 3. LeBron takes the cowardly way out at all times, he will do whats best for him no matter what, and his ego has gotten so big that he now thinks he is the Coach, GM, Captain and the be all end all for where ever he plays.

FlashBolt
04-03-2015, 02:43 PM
This is in response to Frazier Knicks saying LeBron would have rings had he not teamed up. I simply saying had LeBron not gone to Miami, he would have 0 rings at this point. That really is not saying much, Kobe would not have had his rings without Shaq and Pau. This whole thing is stupid, I'm tired of leBron fans, giving LeBron all the credit for everything. He Never won in Cleveland, he teamed up with Bosh and Wade to win rings, then he left Miami, because he knew Wade and Bosh were on the decline, so he goes to a team with young talent and forced Clevelands hand to trade for Love, but tried to pretend all of it was for him to simply come home, its bull ****. The fact that Frazier Knicks is 100 percent convinced leBron would have won a ring had he not teamed up is pretty comical. He would not even acknowledge the possibility of LeBron having 0 rings.

Also comparing Shaq getting traded to Miami while he was on the decline, is not the same as LeBron, Wade and Bosh coluding to form the big 3. LeBron takes the cowardly way out at all times, he will do whats best for him no matter what, and his ego has gotten so big that he now thinks he is the Coach, GM, Captain and the be all end all for where ever he plays.

How do you know James wouldn't have won? He was significantly better during his last three seasons in Miami than he ever was. Wade/Bosh weren't great players at that point and aren't great players this season either. It's comical that you assume 100% James wouldn't win based off of what exactly?

No, comparing Shaq traded to Miami is a perfect comparison. Wade/Bosh had degenerated and are STILL degenerating in terms of basketball ability. LeBron takes the cowardly way out all the time? Oh yeah, because going to a Cleveland team with zero playoff experience, a brand new coach, a roster that went 2-10 without him, and having to adjust to various players is completely cowardly. You do realize that if Bron stayed in Miami, they would still be a better team than the Cavs with LeBron this season, right? Part of why Miami struggling is due to James filling in such a huge role for that team. He WAS that team, to say the least. There is no doubt in my mind that if he had stayed in Miami, they would be contending with GSW for the best record in the NBA. That's blatant.

L8kers4life
04-03-2015, 03:35 PM
How do you know James wouldn't have won? He was significantly better during his last three seasons in Miami than he ever was. Wade/Bosh weren't great players at that point and aren't great players this season either. It's comical that you assume 100% James wouldn't win based off of what exactly?

No, comparing Shaq traded to Miami is a perfect comparison. Wade/Bosh had degenerated and are STILL degenerating in terms of basketball ability. LeBron takes the cowardly way out all the time? Oh yeah, because going to a Cleveland team with zero playoff experience, a brand new coach, a roster that went 2-10 without him, and having to adjust to various players is completely cowardly. You do realize that if Bron stayed in Miami, they would still be a better team than the Cavs with LeBron this season, right? Part of why Miami struggling is due to James filling in such a huge role for that team. He WAS that team, to say the least. There is no doubt in my mind that if he had stayed in Miami, they would be contending with GSW for the best record in the NBA. That's blatant.


I find it comical that you think it is certain he would win, I also love how you spin the Cavs thing. Let's not forget, Lebron took his little 2 week sabaticle when Cleveland had just lost Varejao, Love and Irving were banged up and the team was on the longest road trip of the year against the west, so please stop refrencing the cavs 2-9 record without LeBron, it was a completely different team and they had one of their toughest schedules during the time he was out. You are 100 percent incorrect, that if LeBron stayed Miami his team there would be better than his Cavs team now. Irving, Love, Mozgov, Smith, LeBron, Thopmson, Miller, Shumpert would be better than Miami simply because Miami is really banged up, pre trade the Cavs made, maybe, but after the trades, no way.

And if Lebron was so great his last 3 years , why did he strugglee to so hard for 2 rings, he really almost ended up with 1, just ask the Heat fans in attendence that night. If he struggled with the big 3, and he could not get anyone to Cleveland before he went to miami, then what makes you think it would have been so easy for him to win a ring without the big 3?

Vee-Rex
04-03-2015, 03:35 PM
This is in response to Frazier Knicks saying LeBron would have rings had he not teamed up. I simply saying had LeBron not gone to Miami, he would have 0 rings at this point. That really is not saying much, Kobe would not have had his rings without Shaq and Pau. This whole thing is stupid, I'm tired of leBron fans, giving LeBron all the credit for everything. He Never won in Cleveland, he teamed up with Bosh and Wade to win rings, then he left Miami, because he knew Wade and Bosh were on the decline, so he goes to a team with young talent and forced Clevelands hand to trade for Love, but tried to pretend all of it was for him to simply come home, its bull ****. The fact that Frazier Knicks is 100 percent convinced leBron would have won a ring had he not teamed up is pretty comical. He would not even acknowledge the possibility of LeBron having 0 rings.

Also comparing Shaq getting traded to Miami while he was on the decline, is not the same as LeBron, Wade and Bosh coluding to form the big 3. LeBron takes the cowardly way out at all times, he will do whats best for him no matter what, and his ego has gotten so big that he now thinks he is the Coach, GM, Captain and the be all end all for where ever he plays.

Frazier is saying you can't guarantee or say with absolute certainty that Lebron wouldn't have a ring in 2015 had he not gone to Miami. He's not saying Lebron WOULD have rings.

You obviously dislike Lebron, and as a result of your severe dislike (or hate, but people don't like to hear such a horrible horrible word!!!) you believe others are Lebron fans when they are just being logical.

I say calm down and reread these posts.

L8kers4life
04-03-2015, 03:43 PM
Frazier is saying you can't guarantee or say with absolute certainty that Lebron wouldn't have a ring in 2015 had he not gone to Miami. He's not saying Lebron WOULD have rings.

You obviously dislike Lebron, and as a result of your severe dislike (or hate, but people don't like to hear such a horrible horrible word!!!) you believe others are Lebron fans when they are just being logical.

I say calm down and reread these posts.


Vee-Rex get out of here with that bull, you obviously dont read my posts, I do not hate LeBron, I have constantly stated on here he is the best in the NBA, just because I have an opinion and it does not side with you LeBron Lovers, does not mean I'm wrong. I also have stated he may have won one, these guys are saying it is certain he would have won a ring without the big 3, I disagree. At no point did I say with 100 percent certainty he would have 0 rings, it is simply my opinion that he probably would not have won those rings.


Somebody that is a LeBron fan, for once, just acknowledge he may have 0 rings, thats all I'm asking for. I'm so sick of how offended you guys get when people critque LeBron. I like LeBron, he is the best basketball player on the planet, but that does not change my opinion that he needed the big 3 to win his rings, is there something wrong with me having that opinion? I also stated Kobe would have no rings without Shaq and Pau, does that mean I hate Kobe?

Vee-Rex
04-03-2015, 03:55 PM
Alright, my bad man, not trying to argue. I'll let you guys duke it out.

naps
04-03-2015, 04:40 PM
Heat was the better team. Clearly for various reasons. But this Cavs team could turn out to be a very special one in 2 years. And LeBron was always the best player on those Heat teams but that locker room was always Wade's. There was a clear hierarchy set from upstairs by Riley. Never understood why Riley never made LeBron Wade's co-captain by replacing Haslem though.

Tony_Starks
04-03-2015, 05:45 PM
Heat was the better team. Clearly for various reasons. But this Cavs team could turn out to be a very special one in 2 years. And LeBron was always the best player on those Heat teams but that locker room was always Wade's. There was a clear hierarchy set from upstairs by Riley. Never understood why Riley never made LeBron Wade's co-captain by replacing Haslem though.

I don't understand why this is so hard for some people to comprehend. Miami is a always will be Wade county until he retires. You say he's the leader and Lebron groupies lose their minds like you called him Derrick Fisher or something.

As far as Riles never making Lebron co-captain maybe he saw something we didn't? His words after the Finals would indicate as much...

jerellh528
04-03-2015, 06:05 PM
I like everyone is saying the heat is better, yet saying wade n bosh were bums and Lebron carried them by himself. If wade and bosh were bums, I wonder what that makes kyrie and love. Cavs have better role players, heat had more talent at the top imo.

FraziersKnicks
04-03-2015, 06:23 PM
This is in response to Frazier Knicks saying LeBron would have rings had he not teamed up. I simply saying had LeBron not gone to Miami, he would have 0 rings at this point. That really is not saying much, Kobe would not have had his rings without Shaq and Pau. This whole thing is stupid, I'm tired of leBron fans, giving LeBron all the credit for everything. He Never won in Cleveland, he teamed up with Bosh and Wade to win rings, then he left Miami, because he knew Wade and Bosh were on the decline, so he goes to a team with young talent and forced Clevelands hand to trade for Love, but tried to pretend all of it was for him to simply come home, its bull ****. The fact that Frazier Knicks is 100 percent convinced leBron would have won a ring had he not teamed up is pretty comical. He would not even acknowledge the possibility of LeBron having 0 rings.

Also comparing Shaq getting traded to Miami while he was on the decline, is not the same as LeBron, Wade and Bosh coluding to form the big 3. LeBron takes the cowardly way out at all times, he will do whats best for him no matter what, and his ego has gotten so big that he now thinks he is the Coach, GM, Captain and the be all end all for where ever he plays.

I would love to see the post where I said LeBron would have rings without Wade and Bosh. I'm assuming you have the ability to read the english language since you're on a sports forum discussing basketball. Reading comprehension is key.

It is actually you who is making the bold statements that LeBron wouldn't have won a ring if he had stayed in Cleveland. Not at one point did I say he would have won a ring for sure.

FlashBolt
04-03-2015, 07:32 PM
I like everyone is saying the heat is better, yet saying wade n bosh were bums and Lebron carried them by himself. If wade and bosh were bums, I wonder what that makes kyrie and love. Cavs have better role players, heat had more talent at the top imo.

We're saying it's better because they were better fits... Not because of those players. Irving right now has been a better player than Wade was the last three seasons James had Wade for. That remains to be seen in the postseason but it's undoubtedly true. You're also not being fair that it took Miami a long time to actually get to where they were.

FlashBolt
04-03-2015, 08:10 PM
I find it comical that you think it is certain he would win, I also love how you spin the Cavs thing. Let's not forget, Lebron took his little 2 week sabaticle when Cleveland had just lost Varejao, Love and Irving were banged up and the team was on the longest road trip of the year against the west, so please stop refrencing the cavs 2-9 record without LeBron, it was a completely different team and they had one of their toughest schedules during the time he was out. You are 100 percent incorrect, that if LeBron stayed Miami his team there would be better than his Cavs team now. Irving, Love, Mozgov, Smith, LeBron, Thopmson, Miller, Shumpert would be better than Miami simply because Miami is really banged up, pre trade the Cavs made, maybe, but after the trades, no way.

And if Lebron was so great his last 3 years , why did he strugglee to so hard for 2 rings, he really almost ended up with 1, just ask the Heat fans in attendence that night. If he struggled with the big 3, and he could not get anyone to Cleveland before he went to miami, then what makes you think it would have been so easy for him to win a ring without the big 3?

I don't know why I am even responding to someone who is as delusional and dense as you are.

1) So you're telling me Cavs were losing because Varejao was out? Is that REALLY what you're telling us? They had Love+Irving and still lost. Stop picking buffers to boost your false argument. In one post you're saying this Cleveland team is better, and in the other, you're saying this Cleveland team was losing games because of James/Varejao being out. That sounds an awful lot like a contradictory statement.
2) I am 100% incorrect that Miami would be better? And how are you so sure? You're a Lakers fan who sits on PSD whining about LeBron all the time yet, you're so sure about what goes on in a completely hypothetical situation? Miami Heat's last season is better than the Cavs are this season. There is no if's and of's. They developed chemistry and had every single thing in order. Cavs are still a developing team and that can be proven by Love's rather ineffectiveness. Miami Heat never had that problem. Players knew their role and they played it well. Even with Wade gone due to injuries, that team was a force to reckon with. You don't get to four straight finals and then proclaim that the Cleveland Cavailers this season are comparable. This Heat team is losing because of LeBron. It's that damn simple.
3) Struggle for those two rings? Shocker! That Spurs team totally sucked balls!
4) If Jordan was so great, how come Pacers/Knicks took him to seven games? How come they were taken to six games for five times? Your arguments are incredibly dumbfounded and I am even disappointed in myself for answering them.

prodigy
04-04-2015, 01:36 PM
Cavs Easy. The Cavs defense over the last 2 months has been very good and very underrated. Plus they are a much deeper team. I mean Marion and Perkins don't even play lol.

HeatFan
04-04-2015, 03:40 PM
Watching the Heat for so many years I have to say that the Cavs team have an edge in that Bosh/Love are a wash (except on the Defensive End - where Bosh is better - see below), Wade and Irving (as much as I hate so say it, are also a wash - because I feel Irving is much better at the 3 ball which complements better Lebron's game, although Wade was better defensively). The rest of the supporting cast is somewhat of a wash too with a few details better in one team than another, going both ways. Where the Cavs really have an advantage is height and interior presence. Perks isn't an all star but him and Mozgov are much better than any combination of centers Miami had during Lebron's years there. It is very important to rebound the ball and create second opportunities when you are in playoff basketball and Miami continuously got killed on the board, which is why teams like Chicago and Indiana were always a threat to Miami. This interior presence also allows Love to overcome some defensive deficiencies that made Bosh better.

FlashBolt
04-04-2015, 05:12 PM
Watching the Heat for so many years I have to say that the Cavs team have an edge in that Bosh/Love are a wash (except on the Defensive End - where Bosh is better - see below), Wade and Irving (as much as I hate so say it, are also a wash - because I feel Irving is much better at the 3 ball which complements better Lebron's game, although Wade was better defensively). The rest of the supporting cast is somewhat of a wash too with a few details better in one team than another, going both ways. Where the Cavs really have an advantage is height and interior presence. Perks isn't an all star but him and Mozgov are much better than any combination of centers Miami had during Lebron's years there. It is very important to rebound the ball and create second opportunities when you are in playoff basketball and Miami continuously got killed on the board, which is why teams like Chicago and Indiana were always a threat to Miami. This interior presence also allows Love to overcome some defensive deficiencies that made Bosh better.

1) Wade wasn't much better defensively. He was slow, went to sleep often, and often just quit because of injuries holding him back. In fact, Irving is statistically having a great season on the defensive end holding other PG's to a lower FG%.
2) The real reason Miami was better is due to chemistry. Everyone on the team had a role. Bosh knew it, Chalmers knew it, and Wade knew it. They all were in-sync. This Cleveland team is still trying to fit Love in. And when you go to four straight NBA Finals, you have to be incredibly good before we proclaim the Cleveland as a better team. As for Mosgov, that is true but Andersen was incredibly good for Miami as well. Guys like Ray Allen, Mike Miller, Shane Battier, they are huge players with playoff success. Ray Allen has more playoff experience than everyone on that Cleveland squad combined excluding James.
2)

HeatFan
04-04-2015, 05:53 PM
1) Wade wasn't much better defensively. He was slow, went to sleep often, and often just quit because of injuries holding him back. In fact, Irving is statistically having a great season on the defensive end holding other PG's to a lower FG%.
2) The real reason Miami was better is due to chemistry. Everyone on the team had a role. Bosh knew it, Chalmers knew it, and Wade knew it. They all were in-sync. This Cleveland team is still trying to fit Love in. And when you go to four straight NBA Finals, you have to be incredibly good before we proclaim the Cleveland as a better team. As for Mosgov, that is true but Andersen was incredibly good for Miami as well. Guys like Ray Allen, Mike Miller, Shane Battier, they are huge players with playoff success. Ray Allen has more playoff experience than everyone on that Cleveland squad combined excluding James.
2)

First year was a learning curve for Miami, much like I expected it to be for Cleveland. If by Chemistry you mean guys willing to accept roles, sure. But really they took a lot of time to figure out how to play together. The first half of their first season was a disaster by all accounts.

Shane Battier helped out a lot the first two years and was non-existent much after that. Mike Miller really only played when Miami beat the Thunder and outside of that was a bench warmer (which he is also in Cleveland). Anderson was an energy guy off the bench but in his two years playing for Miami in playoffs only had about less than 20 min per game with less than 4 rebounds per game. Is he better than Joel Anthony?, by far. But Miami went small ball with Bosh or Haslem at the 5 mostly with Lebron at the 4. That is extremely small. Allen, who wasn't there the first two years, helped a lot offensively spacing the floor but was as a defensive liability as they come. He couldn't guard anyone.

The only thing I'll buy out of your argument is playoff experience. But when you are in the East it is something you can overcome. Outside of the Bulls, not that much playoff experience to begin with. With Cle you have three guys who play inside a lot better than any Miami big in Mozgov, Perkins and even Thompson. Maybe its not this year that they win, but comparing roster and the completeness, then I say Cle with a slight edge, emphasis on "slight".

L8kers4life
04-04-2015, 05:53 PM
I don't know why I am even responding to someone who is as delusional and dense as you are.

1) So you're telling me Cavs were losing because Varejao was out? Is that REALLY what you're telling us? They had Love+Irving and still lost. Stop picking buffers to boost your false argument. In one post you're saying this Cleveland team is better, and in the other, you're saying this Cleveland team was losing games because of James/Varejao being out. That sounds an awful lot like a contradictory statement.
2) I am 100% incorrect that Miami would be better? And how are you so sure? You're a Lakers fan who sits on PSD whining about LeBron all the time yet, you're so sure about what goes on in a completely hypothetical situation? Miami Heat's last season is better than the Cavs are this season. There is no if's and of's. They developed chemistry and had every single thing in order. Cavs are still a developing team and that can be proven by Love's rather ineffectiveness. Miami Heat never had that problem. Players knew their role and they played it well. Even with Wade gone due to injuries, that team was a force to reckon with. You don't get to four straight finals and then proclaim that the Cleveland Cavailers this season are comparable. This Heat team is losing because of LeBron. It's that damn simple.
3) Struggle for those two rings? Shocker! That Spurs team totally sucked balls!
4) If Jordan was so great, how come Pacers/Knicks took him to seven games? How come they were taken to six games for five times? Your arguments are incredibly dumbfounded and I am even disappointed in myself for answering them.

First off the only delusional is you, you need to calm the **** down, I love how you only bring up Varejao, who at the time was their only center, and not the fact that all the trades had not been made yet, so 2/3rd of their starting line up was not there while LeBron took his sabaticle. Mozgov and Smith became starters and Mozgov gave them a center which basically saved their season since Varejao was out and that we're getting killed with no center while LeBron was out. Also Shump came in that trade and he has been a big part of the rotation since.

HeatFan
04-04-2015, 06:00 PM
1) Wade wasn't much better defensively. He was slow, went to sleep often, and often just quit because of injuries holding him back. In fact, Irving is statistically having a great season on the defensive end holding other PG's to a lower FG%.
2) The real reason Miami was better is due to chemistry. Everyone on the team had a role. Bosh knew it, Chalmers knew it, and Wade knew it. They all were in-sync. This Cleveland team is still trying to fit Love in. And when you go to four straight NBA Finals, you have to be incredibly good before we proclaim the Cleveland as a better team. As for Mosgov, that is true but Andersen was incredibly good for Miami as well. Guys like Ray Allen, Mike Miller, Shane Battier, they are huge players with playoff success. Ray Allen has more playoff experience than everyone on that Cleveland squad combined excluding James.
2)

BTW, saying Wade wasn't better defensively than Irving is just wrong. Was he slower than before? YES. But he is an excellent team defender and knows how to overcome speed issues with smart play. Only thing is his laziness when calls didn't go his way on the other end and just sat back complaining to officials (which greatly irritated me).

slashsnake
04-04-2015, 07:57 PM
Have to see Cleveland play playoff basketball before making a call here. They are winning at a pretty good pace. Slow start, and awful in the games Lebron missed, but Cavs outside the first few weeks with Lebron are playing as good as the Heat outside their start with Lebron (when everyone was calling for Riley to come back and replace Spoelstra).

As for Miami's bigs.. remember that first year it was kind of messy. Juwan Howard, Big Z, Dampier, and Joel Anthony were all getting moved in and out of lineups, and nobody was really fitting unlike later Miami seasons.

FlashBolt
04-04-2015, 09:37 PM
First off the only delusional is you, you need to calm the **** down, I love how you only bring up Varejao, who at the time was their only center, and not the fact that all the trades had not been made yet, so 2/3rd of their starting line up was not there while LeBron took his sabaticle. Mozgov and Smith became starters and Mozgov gave them a center which basically saved their season since Varejao was out and that we're getting killed with no center while LeBron was out. Also Shump came in that trade and he has been a big part of the rotation since.

And this team wouldn't be 2nd seed because of one man: LeBron James. So go complain about all these other players that every other superstar plays with. Mosgov was playing awful for Denver and plays well in Cleveland. WHY IS THAT you think? J.R. and Shump as well. James makes them better players and the fact that you're trying to discredit him for a huge bulk of why they are winning, is pretty laughable.

FlashBolt
04-04-2015, 09:38 PM
BTW, saying Wade wasn't better defensively than Irving is just wrong. Was he slower than before? YES. But he is an excellent team defender and knows how to overcome speed issues with smart play. Only thing is his laziness when calls didn't go his way on the other end and just sat back complaining to officials (which greatly irritated me).

When did I say Wade wasn't a better defender? He's not MUCH better like you claim. Also, how is Wade a better defender when he's MISSING so many games? Irving isn't a bad defender like you think he is.