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View Full Version : Bob Cousy: "Hes the first big guy to remind me of Bill Russell"



Chronz
03-26-2015, 06:59 PM
http://hoopshype.com/rumors/r/5NKE/bob-cousy-hassan-whiteside-first-player-to-remind-me-of-bill-russell#sthash.Niy20oYj.dpuf

"I have never said this in the 40 years since I retired," Cousy said in a recent telephone interview, "but he is the first big guy, not (Patrick) Ewing, (Hakeem) Olajuwon, Shaq (O'Neal), who reminds me defensively and on the boards of Russell. He runs the floor well, he has excellent timing, he blocks shots and keeps them in play the way Russell did." - See more at:

Woah..... not even DJ got that praise. Whiteside is the truth ya'll. The next legendary bigman. Anyone else on boards?

MagicBucsSox
03-26-2015, 07:30 PM
Lol bill russell was 6'9" 215 lbs. He'd be crap today. KD has more weight than him. Im sick of this old school bs

tredigs
03-26-2015, 07:44 PM
Lol bill russell was 6'9" 215 lbs. He'd be crap today. KD has more weight than him. Im sick of this old school bs

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/1227/espn_pow_dec28_03.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/a7/db/d7/a7dbd7be3c0537b582e61f0d081acb14.jpg

Chronz
03-26-2015, 07:55 PM
Lol bill russell was 6'9" 215 lbs. He'd be crap tod ay

yeah. In high school

beasted86
03-26-2015, 07:56 PM
Lol bill russell was 6'9" 215 lbs. He'd be crap today. KD has more weight than him. Im sick of this old school bs

What difference does that make what size you think he was. He was great during his time and head and shoulders above his competition defensively.

Would you look at a classic 1960s Ford GT40 and say "this thing is slower, heavier, less fuel efficient, and less aerodynamic than any car in Formula One today" or would you just appreciate it for the classic it is and how dynamic that vehicle was in comparison to the cars of its time?

On topic: Whiteside had great instincts, but still lacks in strength and some instincts. I'd easily take prime Mourning over him. But let him develop some more then we can compare.

KnicksorBust
03-26-2015, 08:08 PM
Bill Cousy?

KnicksorBust
03-26-2015, 08:09 PM
I wonder how much he has seen of The Stifle Tower this season.

RLundi
03-26-2015, 08:19 PM
Did you mean Bob?

MagicBucsSox
03-26-2015, 08:22 PM
What difference does that make what size you think he was. He was great during his time and head and shoulders above his competition defensively.

Would you look at a classic 1960s Ford GT40 and say "this thing is slower, heavier, less fuel efficient, and less aerodynamic than any car in Formula One today" or would you just appreciate it for the classic it is and how dynamic that vehicle was in comparison to the cars of its time?

On topic: Whiteside had great instincts, but still lacks in strength and some instincts. I'd easily take prime Mourning over him. But let him develop some more then we can compare.

Are you done?

MagicBucsSox
03-26-2015, 08:24 PM
yeah. In high school

Um you should learn ya history my man. Next you'll tell me Magic Johnson played cent4when in reality he only didthe jumpball

MagicBucsSox
03-26-2015, 08:25 PM
What difference does that make what size you think he was. He was great during his time and head and shoulders above his competition defensively.

Would you look at a classic 1960s Ford GT40 and say "this thing is slower, heavier, less fuel efficient, and less aerodynamic than any car in Formula One today" or would you just appreciate it for the classic it is and how dynamic that vehicle was in comparison to the cars of its time?

On topic: Whiteside had great instincts, but still lacks in strength and some instincts. I'd easily take prime Mourning over him. But let him develop some more then we can compare.

Lmao omg i shouldve known it was a heat fan

beasted86
03-26-2015, 08:32 PM
Are you done?

Yes, you've been sonned, so I'm done. Now go to your room. No TV after dinner.

PowerHouse
03-26-2015, 08:55 PM
What the hell does Bill Cosby know about NBA anyway? lol

kdspurman
03-26-2015, 09:41 PM
Did you mean Bob?

Me thinks so... I changed the name. Maybe it was a nickname i was unaware of though... lol

mavwar53
03-26-2015, 10:03 PM
Lol bill russell was 6'9" 215 lbs. He'd be crap today. KD has more weight than him. Im sick of this old school bs

Ya, size has really killed Draymond Green.

asandhu23
03-26-2015, 10:06 PM
Would you look at a classic 1960s Ford GT40 and say "this thing is slower, heavier, less fuel efficient, and less aerodynamic than any car in Formula One today" or would you just appreciate it for the classic it is and how dynamic that vehicle was in comparison to the cars of its time?



that is a horrible comparison if you know GT40's history.

ewing
03-26-2015, 10:13 PM
What the hell does Bill Cosby know about NBA anyway? lol

:laugh:

ewing
03-26-2015, 10:24 PM
I've only seen russel highlights and such. I think that is true for most of us. I do know from those highlights and from history that the dude was a blur. i have no idea what kind of basketball Bill Russell would be today but he athletically he was special.

Tony_Starks
03-26-2015, 10:34 PM
Bill Russell would still kill today because he would do what the majority of centers today refuse to do: focus on dominating the game defensively and passing the ball.

Tony_Starks
03-26-2015, 10:35 PM
Are you done?

Yes, you've been sonned, so I'm done. Now go to your room. No TV after dinner.

Lol this made me laugh man....

IKnowHoops
03-26-2015, 10:45 PM
Bill still would of been good cause dude actually was a freak athlete. Go look at the tape. He's somewhere between 6'9-6'11. I've heard so much crap about true 1960 heights I'm just like whatever the consensus is. He had athletic ability similar to David Robinson and Wilt. So at 6'9 with a good wingspan, hell still be a beast. At 6'11 he still going to be an all time player by my estimation.

ewing
03-26-2015, 10:56 PM
Bill still would of been good cause dude actually was a freak athlete. Go look at the tape. He's somewhere between 6'9-6'11. I've heard so much crap about true 1960 heights I'm just like whatever the consensus is. He had athletic ability similar to David Robinson and Wilt. So at 6'9 with a good wingspan, hell still be a beast. At 6'11 he still going to be an all time player by my estimation.

david not a bad comparison, i do think wilt is. with my limited knowledge i actually think Russel looked most Dennis Rodman athletically.

ewing
03-26-2015, 11:09 PM
watching Matt Stainbrook dominate really makes me think Russel couldn't hack it with current athletes.

LA4life24/8
03-27-2015, 05:07 AM
Honestly no offense to Whiteside, but cousy might be jumping the gun a little bit with his comparison to Russell

Russell is one of the best players of all time, not saying whiteside doesn't have potential to get better but I doubt when his career is over hell be in the GOATs conversation

kozelkid
03-27-2015, 05:10 AM
What the hell does Bill Cosby know about NBA anyway? lol
Wow.

valade16
03-27-2015, 09:18 AM
Bill still would of been good cause dude actually was a freak athlete. Go look at the tape. He's somewhere between 6'9-6'11. I've heard so much crap about true 1960 heights I'm just like whatever the consensus is. He had athletic ability similar to David Robinson and Wilt. So at 6'9 with a good wingspan, hell still be a beast. At 6'11 he still going to be an all time player by my estimation.

People fail to realize most player measurements nowadays are inflated or measuring them in their shoes.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/34789/kevin-love-and-height-liars-in-shoes

Dwight Howard is 6'9" tall. Kevin Love is 6'8". Joakim Noah is 6'10".

So I don't see Bill Russell's 6'9" being too much of a problem. The insinuation gets especially laughable when you consider 2 of the greatest rebounders of our time, Barkley and Rodman, were both 6'6"

valade16
03-27-2015, 09:22 AM
watching Matt Stainbrook dominate really makes me think Russel couldn't hack it with current athletes.

One could look back at our era and make the same observation with Steve Nash and Dirk Nowitzki...

ewing
03-27-2015, 09:53 AM
One could look back at our era and make the same observation with Steve Nash and Dirk Nowitzki...

Nash was quick like a bunny.

ewing
03-27-2015, 09:54 AM
People fail to realize most player measurements nowadays are inflated or measuring them in their shoes.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/34789/kevin-love-and-height-liars-in-shoes

Dwight Howard is 6'9" tall. Kevin Love is 6'8". Joakim Noah is 6'10".

So I don't see Bill Russell's 6'9" being too much of a problem. The insinuation gets especially laughable when you consider 2 of the greatest rebounders of our time, Barkley and Rodman, were both 6'6"


and if charles barkley is 6'6" so am I

valade16
03-27-2015, 10:47 AM
Nash was quick like a bunny.

He was quick for a person yes. Was he very quick for the NBA? He would not crack a Top 10 list for quickest PGs in the league right now.

valade16
03-27-2015, 10:48 AM
and if charles barkley is 6'6" so am I

The implication being that Barkley was actually shorter than 6'6" (more like 6'4")?

That only strengthens my point.

mike_noodles
03-27-2015, 11:09 AM
http://hoopshype.com/rumors/r/5NKE/bob-cousy-hassan-whiteside-first-player-to-remind-me-of-bill-russell#sthash.Niy20oYj.dpuf

"I have never said this in the 40 years since I retired," Cousy said in a recent telephone interview, "but he is the first big guy, not (Patrick) Ewing, (Hakeem) Olajuwon, Shaq (O'Neal), who reminds me defensively and on the boards of Russell. He runs the floor well, he has excellent timing, he blocks shots and keeps them in play the way Russell did." - See more at:

Woah..... not even DJ got that praise. Whiteside is the truth ya'll. The next legendary bigman. Anyone else on boards?

Who is the DJ you speak of?

ewing
03-27-2015, 11:57 AM
He was quick for a person yes. Was he very quick for the NBA? He would not crack a Top 10 list for quickest PGs in the league right now.

yes and yes. I am actually less sure without the ball but with the rock no doubt

Chronz
03-27-2015, 12:31 PM
For the record, Russ was a legit 6"10, in todays NBA he would be listed at either 6"11 or 7ft. He didn't want to be listed at 6"10 for the same reason KG and Duncan didn't want to be listed at 7"ft. They didn't want to be viewed as tall goons and wanted to be recognized for their skills.

ewing
03-27-2015, 12:41 PM
For the record, Russ was a legit 6"10, in todays NBA he would be listed at either 6"11 or 7ft. He didn't want to be listed at 6"10 for the same reason KG and Duncan didn't want to be listed at 7"ft. They didn't want to be viewed as tall goons and wanted to be recognized for their skills.

thanks Chronz you are always the man when it comes to history. :up:

asandhu23
03-28-2015, 12:07 AM
For the record, Russ was a legit 6"10, in todays NBA he would be listed at either 6"11 or 7ft. He didn't want to be listed at 6"10 for the same reason KG and Duncan didn't want to be listed at 7"ft. They didn't want to be viewed as tall goons and wanted to be recognized for their skills.

oh yeah. people assume you are good at basketball just because you are tall. Wilt faced that **** all throughout his career. People still exaggerate his height compared to his competitors.

beasted86
03-28-2015, 06:23 PM
Who is the DJ you speak of?

I'd like to know also. Can't be DeAndre Jordan, can it?

That would be a stupid suggestion with him swatting every shot 3 rows into the stands every shot he blocks.

beasted86
03-28-2015, 06:29 PM
that is a horrible comparison if you know GT40's history.

I have no clue what you're talking about. The GT40 is a classic race car that won a decent amount during its time and basically put America on the map that they were even a threat because the crap they were making before couldn't even compete. If you think I'm trying to say it's the Holy Grail, you missed the analogy.

Vendetta_
03-28-2015, 07:17 PM
Lol bill russell was 6'9" 215 lbs. He'd be crap today. KD has more weight than him. Im sick of this old school bs

You don't think that Bill Russell would be a better player if he was born lets say 30 years later? If we're speaking with hypothetical, and Bill was a young guys coming up today. You don't think the advances nutrition, technology, and the overall understanding of the human body wouldn't make Bill a great player still?

I mean sure if you went back in time and grabbed Bill Russell he'd probably get smashed. A long with ever other great player from the 60's in any sport. You don't think Babe Ruth would have problems hitting 99 when he was seeing 80-85 tops in his career?

I just think you're misunderstanding what people are really doing when they're comparing older players to current ones. You have to grade on a curve.

Chronz
03-29-2015, 01:15 AM
I mean sure if you went back in time and grabbed Bill Russell he'd probably get smashed. A long with ever other great player from the 60's in any sport. You don't think Babe Ruth would have problems hitting 99 when he was seeing 80-85 tops in his career?

no.

Sadds The Gr8
03-29-2015, 01:19 AM
Russell was way ahead of his time. He'd still be a defensive beast today, especially in this era where the centers have to be agile on PnR's and ****

Chronz
03-29-2015, 01:27 AM
I'd like to know also. Can't be DeAndre Jordan, can it?

That would be a stupid suggestion with him swatting every shot 3 rows into the stands every shot he blocks.

Yes that DJ. The guy who got that kind of potential bestowed upon him by every coach hes ever had. Hes obviously never fulfilled that potential but I wasn't being serious.

Vendetta_
03-29-2015, 11:02 AM
no.

What a well thought out post. Looks like you have problems discussing things when they're opinion based and you can't just google stats for it.

In fairness though from what other have said you're just kind of the arrogant know it all in these forums so maybe I'm just not use to it.

Chronz
03-29-2015, 10:33 PM
What a well thought out post. Looks like you have problems discussing things when they're opinion based and you can't just google stats for it.

In fairness though from what other have said you're just kind of the arrogant know it all in these forums so maybe I'm just not use to it.
Show me a well thought out post and i will respond in kind

beasted86
03-29-2015, 10:43 PM
Yes that DJ. The guy who got that kind of potential bestowed upon him by every coach hes ever had. Hes obviously never fulfilled that potential but I wasn't being serious.

But the point Cousy was making was about the knack Whiteside has of blocking shots and keeping the ball in play, almost attempting to direct it to a teammate at times.

DJ purposely swats every shot 3 rows into the stands somewhat unaware of the idea of keeping it in play and igniting the break. A lot of Centers have the same issue. They want the "highlight block".

cmellofan15
03-30-2015, 12:16 AM
What a well thought out post. Looks like you have problems discussing things when they're opinion based and you can't just google stats for it.

In fairness though from what other have said you're just kind of the arrogant know it all in these forums so maybe I'm just not use to it.

i think simple no suffices considering you had no actual basis for your opinion

asandhu23
03-30-2015, 09:03 AM
I have no clue what you're talking about. The GT40 is a classic race car that won a decent amount during its time and basically put America on the map that they were even a threat because the crap they were making before couldn't even compete. If you think I'm trying to say it's the Holy Grail, you missed the analogy.

nevermind.

valade16
03-30-2015, 09:23 AM
But the point Cousy was making was about the knack Whiteside has of blocking shots and keeping the ball in play, almost attempting to direct it to a teammate at times.

DJ purposely swats every shot 3 rows into the stands somewhat unaware of the idea of keeping it in play and igniting the break. A lot of Centers have the same issue. They want the "highlight block".

This is actually very true. Bill said one of the things he prided himself on was that his blocks led directly to fast breaks. A block that goes out of bounds and the opposing team retains possession is not nearly as valuable as a block that leads directly to points.

asandhu23
03-30-2015, 09:39 AM
This is actually very true. Bill said one of the things he prided himself on was that his blocks led directly to fast breaks. A block that goes out of bounds and the opposing team retains possession is not nearly as valuable as a block that leads directly to points.

exactly. This was one thing Wilt said he had to learn quickly when he entered the NBA after spending time with Globetrotters or the veterans would have chewed him alive.

Chronz
03-30-2015, 12:57 PM
But the point Cousy was making was about the knack Whiteside has of blocking shots and keeping the ball in play, almost attempting to direct it to a teammate at times.

DJ purposely swats every shot 3 rows into the stands somewhat unaware of the idea of keeping it in play and igniting the break. A lot of Centers have the same issue. They want the "highlight block".
Yeah that Sounds like a young dj to me. Not this guy

Vendetta_
03-30-2015, 03:47 PM
Show me a well thought out post and i will respond in kind

Nah I think you're just still butt hurt from a previous thread. You hold grudges like a 16 year old girl. Grow up.

Any post deserves an explanation. Just saying no without an explanations is a cop out, and you know that.

Vendetta_
03-30-2015, 03:51 PM
i think simple no suffices considering you had no actual basis for your opinion

So taking the opinion that players have gotten better from the 60's to now has no basis?

You honestly think that there's no valid argument for human progression....HAHAHAHA.

Okay man. Whatever you say.

ewing
03-30-2015, 08:41 PM
What a well thought out post. Looks like you have problems discussing things when they're opinion based and you can't just google stats for it.

In fairness though from what other have said you're just kind of the arrogant know it all in these forums so maybe I'm just not use to it.

i thought he gave it appropriate consideration.

ewing
03-30-2015, 08:51 PM
So taking the opinion that players have gotten better from the 60's to now has no basis?

You honestly think that there's no valid argument for human progression....HAHAHAHA.

Okay man. Whatever you say.



i don't think you understand how things work. the game has progressed the human species not so much. that is very slow process. Some people in this thread wanted to act like Russel was short, well that already been disproved. So the question we are left with is could a hyper athletic 6'11 track star with a defensive mind, great instincts, set and ball skill like this compete in today league?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWelUNrJUMM

the answer despite how much cooler and hipper then Grandpa you are, is "of course"

iam brett favre
03-30-2015, 09:58 PM
Gobert is better than Whiteside.

Vendetta_
03-31-2015, 12:04 AM
i don't think you understand how things work. the game has progressed the human species not so much. that is very slow process. Some people in this thread wanted to act like Russel was short, well that already been disproved. So the question we are left with is could a hyper athletic 6'11 track star with a defensive mind, great instincts, set and ball skill like this compete in today league?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWelUNrJUMM

the answer despite how much cooler and hipper then Grandpa you are, is "of course"

So you honestly think that athletes have gotten no better. That sports players haven't gotten better through technology, and further research on the human body?

Whatever. Guess we're just gonna have to agree to disagree since we can't agree on the simple idea of progression hahahahha.

ewing
03-31-2015, 12:17 AM
So you honestly think that athletes have gotten no better. That sports players haven't gotten better through technology, and further research on the human body?

Whatever. Guess we're just gonna have to agree to disagree since we can't agree on the simple idea of progression hahahahha.

hhahahahhaha- Listen Drago, i don't care what kind of Russian scientists you have working for you. they can only increase your individual potential. In my case i was a 5'10 140 pound guard. I shot the **** out of the ball and have real good court vision- this is where my nature gifts largely ended. They weren't turning me into Russel Westbrook.

Jessie Owens ran track in the 1930s. A sport that is nothing but measurement. He would have been an Olympic athlete this past games. he wouldn't have won gold with his times in the last Olympics but those times would have would have gotten into the games from there to the finals competing for medals. maybe a new sneaker and he medals- not sure. training, popularity, time constraints, etc have lead to more top level athletes. That doesn't mean a guy from the 60s that could change ends with the ball the way we just saw Russel and then hurdle a guy his way to the basket wouldn't be a top shelf athlete. The 12th man is generally a lot more athletic today. Bill Russell was generally more athletic then anyone you can fine.

Vendetta_
03-31-2015, 01:54 AM
hhahahahhaha- Listen Drago, i don't care what kind of Russian scientists you have working for you. they can only increase your individual potential. In my case i was a 5'10 140 pound guard. I shot the **** out of the ball and have real good court vision- this is where my nature gifts largely ended. They weren't turning me into Russel Westbrook.

Jessie Owens ran track in the 1930s. A sport that is nothing but measurement. He would have been an Olympic athlete this past games. he wouldn't have won gold with his times in the last Olympics but those times would have would have gotten into the games from there to the finals competing for medals. maybe a new sneaker and he medals- not sure. training, popularity, time constraints, etc have lead to more top level athletes. That doesn't mean a guy from the 60s that could change ends with the ball the way we just saw Russel and then hurdle a guy his way to the basket wouldn't be a top shelf athlete. The 12th man is generally a lot more athletic today. Bill Russell was generally more athletic then anyone you can fine.

It's so funny to me that you are just denying the fact that people are bigger/stronger/faster now than they were 50 years ago. There is plenty of data to back this up. Look at the changed of fastball speeds from 1890 to now. Progressively faster. Look at the average height of human beings just in the last 50 years. Look at the size of linebackers. For someone to think that the NBA has gotten no better in the last 50 years is just beyond stupid in my opinion.

Also you're 5 10 140 because you don't eat enough. It's not magic. You eat more calories than you burn you gain weight. No one is immune gaining weight. That's as silly as someone saying they eat healthy and exercise everyday, but they're still fat. Your body doesn't defy science. It's not because you didn't get Westbrooks genes it's because you didn't work hard enough at it.

ewing
03-31-2015, 02:02 AM
It's so funny to me that you are just denying the fact that people are bigger/stronger/faster now than they were 50 years ago. There is plenty of data to back this up. Look at the changed of fastball speeds from 1890 to now. Progressively faster. Look at the average height of human beings just in the last 50 years. Look at the size of linebackers. For someone to think that the NBA has gotten no better in the last 50 years is just beyond stupid in my opinion.

Also you're 5 10 140 because you don't eat enough. It's not magic. You eat more calories than you burn you gain weight. No one is immune gaining weight. That's as silly as someone saying they eat healthy and exercise everyday, but they're still fat. Your body doesn't defy science. It's not because you didn't get Westbrooks genes it's because you didn't work hard enough at it.


well thats not true.

smith&wesson
03-31-2015, 03:39 AM
Shaq and Hakeem would have owned Bill russel if they had played against one another in their respective prime..

Vendetta_
03-31-2015, 04:34 AM
Deleted to be nice.

slashsnake
03-31-2015, 05:30 AM
On topic: Whiteside had great instincts, but still lacks in strength and some instincts. I'd easily take prime Mourning over him. But let him develop some more then we can compare.

I keep remembering Isaac Austin with the heat when Mourning went down and he stepped in and was a 15-10 guy for a little while out of nowhere for Riley (seemed Riley could always do this for a few months with some unknown, and a few went on to be great players long term). Chasing down everything, challenging everyone... He went up against some big teams and won his matchups. Bucks with Vin Baker and the Big Dog. Bullets with Muresan, Juwan Howard and Ben Wallace. Big game against the Blazers who were so big. Sabonis, Jermaine Oneal, Dudley, Sheed, and Cliff Robinson. Man I was a huge fan of him, stepping in out of nowhere. Within a year or so you saw that was lightning in a bottle.

Maybe Cousy see's something similar between the two. Heck a lot of great players and knowledgeable people saw a lot of similarities between MJ's game and Harold Miner's too. Obviously you can compare guys even though the comparison isn't even close in terms of talent.

Kenneth Faried reminds me so much of Rodman. More than anyone I've seen since. He has lots of energy. They look practically the same when running the floor, those two are the only two I can think of that run that way. But Rodman was a million times better defender than Faried, and a much better rebounder, especially in terms of positioning and boxing out. Doesn't mean Faried is anything close to being as good as Rodman, just they have some similarities.

ewing
03-31-2015, 08:34 AM
Man you guys just are great at debating in the NBA forums. Class personified.

P.S. It's you're*


I'll edit the post for you but if you think with enough sweat anyone can move like Russell Westbrook its a hard conclusion not to make.

canefandynasty
03-31-2015, 09:07 AM
I keep remembering Isaac Austin with the heat when Mourning went down and he stepped in and was a 15-10 guy for a little while out of nowhere for Riley (seemed Riley could always do this for a few months with some unknown, and a few went on to be great players long term). Chasing down everything, challenging everyone... He went up against some big teams and won his matchups. Bucks with Vin Baker and the Big Dog. Bullets with Muresan, Juwan Howard and Ben Wallace. Big game against the Blazers who were so big. Sabonis, Jermaine Oneal, Dudley, Sheed, and Cliff Robinson. Man I was a huge fan of him, stepping in out of nowhere. Within a year or so you saw that was lightning in a bottle.

Maybe Cousy see's something similar between the two. Heck a lot of great players and knowledgeable people saw a lot of similarities between MJ's game and Harold Miner's too. Obviously you can compare guys even though the comparison isn't even close in terms of talent.

Kenneth Faried reminds me so much of Rodman. More than anyone I've seen since. He has lots of energy. They look practically the same when running the floor, those two are the only two I can think of that run that way. But Rodman was a million times better defender than Faried, and a much better rebounder, especially in terms of positioning and boxing out. Doesn't mean Faried is anything close to being as good as Rodman, just they have some similarities.
Whiteside isn't Russell but lets not disrespect him either. He's still is putting up consistently great numbers, and anyone who watches him can see the talent. Based on how you post, I don't think you've watched Whiteside.

ewing
03-31-2015, 09:10 AM
I keep remembering Isaac Austin with the heat when Mourning went down and he stepped in and was a 15-10 guy for a little while out of nowhere for Riley (seemed Riley could always do this for a few months with some unknown, and a few went on to be great players long term). Chasing down everything, challenging everyone... He went up against some big teams and won his matchups. Bucks with Vin Baker and the Big Dog. Bullets with Muresan, Juwan Howard and Ben Wallace. Big game against the Blazers who were so big. Sabonis, Jermaine Oneal, Dudley, Sheed, and Cliff Robinson. Man I was a huge fan of him, stepping in out of nowhere. Within a year or so you saw that was lightning in a bottle.

Maybe Cousy see's something similar between the two. Heck a lot of great players and knowledgeable people saw a lot of similarities between MJ's game and Harold Miner's too. Obviously you can compare guys even though the comparison isn't even close in terms of talent.

Kenneth Faried reminds me so much of Rodman. More than anyone I've seen since. He has lots of energy. They look practically the same when running the floor, those two are the only two I can think of that run that way. But Rodman was a million times better defender than Faried, and a much better rebounder, especially in terms of positioning and boxing out. Doesn't mean Faried is anything close to being as good as Rodman, just they have some similarities.



solid post. I will have watch Faried run. I remember Denis had this weird upright posture.

gwrighter
03-31-2015, 11:20 AM
http://hoopshype.com/rumors/r/5NKE/bob-cousy-hassan-whiteside-first-player-to-remind-me-of-bill-russell#sthash.Niy20oYj.dpuf

"I have never said this in the 40 years since I retired," Cousy said in a recent telephone interview, "but he is the first big guy, not (Patrick) Ewing, (Hakeem) Olajuwon, Shaq (O'Neal), who reminds me defensively and on the boards of Russell. He runs the floor well, he has excellent timing, he blocks shots and keeps them in play the way Russell did." - See more at:

Woah..... not even DJ got that praise. Whiteside is the truth ya'll. The next legendary bigman. Anyone else on boards?

Absolutely not. He's not even close to being a transcendental big man in the league. This is Linsanity all over again. He's had one great game and now he's being compared to all-timers? Give it a rest Cousy. Whiteside is more comparable to Javale McGee than he is to Russell.

Chronz
03-31-2015, 11:27 AM
Nah I think you're just still butt hurt from a previous thread. You hold grudges like a 16 year old girl. Grow up.

Any post deserves an explanation. Just saying no without an explanations is a cop out, and you know that.

I disagree, if the poster has provided absolutely no basis for his argument, then how can I give an explanation? The simple no sufficed because there is no reason to believe a word you wrote.

Chronz
03-31-2015, 11:33 AM
Shaq and Hakeem would have owned Bill russel if they had played against one another in their respective prime..

Why didn't Wilt own Russell?

Why does Kareem say the guys who defended him the best came from Bill's generation?

Dont overrate the athletic progression of today's players.

RCarlson85
03-31-2015, 12:05 PM
Absolutely not. He's not even close to being a transcendental big man in the league. This is Linsanity all over again. He's had one great game and now he's being compared to all-timers? Give it a rest Cousy. Whiteside is more comparable to Javale McGee than he is to Russell.

Haha, one great game? Sure. You clearly haven't watched him play so go find another thread with a topic that you maybe know something about.

ewing
03-31-2015, 12:48 PM
Why didn't Wilt own Russell?

Why does Kareem say the guys who defended him the best came from Bill's generation?

Dont overrate the athletic progression of today's players.



Its pointless Chronz. Feel free to share your historical perspective for those that appreciate it. I don't talk about basketball i haven't seen b/c i don't think i can intelligently. I do think i can extrapolate that Russell was definitely athletic enough to play but that is about where it end. you seem to talk about old school stuff with a historical knowledge that makes it interesting even if you weren't there.

Vendetta_
03-31-2015, 12:52 PM
I'll edit the post for you but if you think with enough sweat anyone can move like Russell Westbrook its a hard conclusion not to make.

No sweat I aint no rat.

I agree you can work as hard as you want and never be anywhere near as physically gifted as Westbrook.

However no one is stuck at 140 lbs.

I'm in the same boat man. I could of worked my *** off and maybe gone to college, and worked on my game.... But I didn't because I didn't have the motivation, or the work ethic at a young enough age.

I just hate it when people act like talent is the only reason they didn't make it. There are 1000 extremely talented guys that don't make the NBA because they don't have the work ethic.

Vendetta_
03-31-2015, 12:58 PM
I disagree, if the poster has provided absolutely no basis for his argument, then how can I give an explanation? The simple no sufficed because there is no reason to believe a word you wrote.

Hmmm hmm. So you go around and any comment that you feel doesn't have a basis you tell the person no without giving explanations? Yeah right dude. You saw my post and went out of your way to be a dick because you're butt hurt. Grow up. Either stop responding to my posts or be an adult about it. Have a conversation, or ignore my posts and move on.

P.S. I gave many examples already of humans progressing.

Unless you disagree that pitchers throw hard/linebackers are bigger/humans are taller. So I don't see how that's not a basis for any of this, and I don't see how you can just look at that, and be like "he's wrong".

HOwever like I said. Your intentions are clear. The irony of you trying to disregards my posts in a vendetta is a small irony though that makes me chuckle.

ewing
03-31-2015, 01:04 PM
No sweat I aint no rat.

I agree you can work as hard as you want and never be anywhere near as physically gifted as Westbrook.

However no one is stuck at 140 lbs.

I'm in the same boat man. I could of worked my *** off and maybe gone to college, and worked on my game.... But I didn't because I didn't have the motivation, or the work ethic at a young enough age.

I just hate it when people act like talent is the only reason they didn't make it. There are 1000 extremely talented guys that don't make the NBA because they don't have the work ethic.

you'll be happy know that i'm almost 40 and now a ripped and in the mid 170s. though i admit, i usually cut little for bikini season :)

Vendetta_
03-31-2015, 01:06 PM
you'll be happy know that i'm almost 40 and now a ripped and in the mid 170s. though i admit, i usually cut little for bikini season :)

There you go. So you have improved! Trying for a second shot at the NBA man :).

I'm 25 and wearing sweat pants and eating ice cream right now so you got me beat a bit lol.

I've been goin back to school, and it's making me sooooo lazzzzzzyyyy.

gwrighter
03-31-2015, 02:43 PM
Haha, one great game? Sure. You clearly haven't watched him play so go find another thread with a topic that you maybe know something about.

I've watched him play & he's alright. If we're talking about a transcendent big man the only young player in today's game that is worth that type of analysis is Anthony Davis. That's where the conversation begins and ends.

Chronz
03-31-2015, 02:58 PM
Hmmm hmm. So you go around and any comment that you feel doesn't have a basis you tell the person no without giving explanations? Yeah right dude. You saw my post and went out of your way to be a dick because you're butt hurt. Grow up. Either stop responding to my posts or be an adult about it. Have a conversation, or ignore my posts and move on.
Drop the straws. I dont go around posting no to every comment. Just the ones I vehemently disagree with. Tho to be honest, part of me was hoping you would elaborate on your opinion.


P.S. I gave many examples already of humans progressing.
Now lets discuss the ACTUAL NBA players.


Unless you disagree that pitchers throw hard/linebackers are bigger/humans are taller. So I don't see how that's not a basis for any of this, and I don't see how you can just look at that, and be like "he's wrong".
Stop trying to leave me with so few options, it belittles the point your trying to corner me in. Heres the thing, I dont deny the evolution of the game, I disagree with your opinion of just how much it has evolved. Hence the easy dismissal of such an outlandish claim.

I've seen the numbers on NBA players, the countless rule changes, I know the dire circumstances they played in that wouldn't exist today. Not that athleticism is all that matters in the NBA (far from it) but Russell would be an elite NBA caliber athlete by any standard. He doesn't need ur excuse for a crutch, if you want to give him the added benefit of whatever modern translations you see fit then so much the better.


HOwever like I said. Your intentions are clear. The irony of you trying to disregards my posts in a vendetta is a small irony though that makes me chuckle.
Yes, Im sure your constant attempts at turning this into a "vendetta" wasn't driven by your username. LOL. I will admit I chuckled too. Now lets stop pretending this is in any way personal. You sound like you expect me to take this forum more seriously than you. Some days I can rise to the occasion.

valade16
03-31-2015, 03:07 PM
For what it's worth, here's a clip of Bill Russell literally leaping over a player for a layup.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/case-hadn-t-heard-bill-russell-pretty-good-004150534--ncaab.html

Bill Russell was a accomplished high jumper. I think he was more than athletic enough to survive in todays NBA.

RCarlson85
03-31-2015, 03:13 PM
I've watched him play & he's alright. If we're talking about a transcendent big man the only young player in today's game that is worth that type of analysis is Anthony Davis. That's where the conversation begins and ends.

I don't think he's trying to say that Whiteside is the best young big man in the game today. There are obviously better big men like Anthony Davis, as you mentioned. What he was trying to say is the way he plays reminds him of Bill Russell's style. The biggest comparison he made is the way he blocks shots but keeps them in play rather than swatting them out of bounds like so many shot-blockers do. He absolutely does that whenever possible. This skill is important because it usually leads to the Heat getting the ball on the fast break rather than the opposing team in-bounding after a block out of bounds.

I'm not going to claim that Whiteside is going to develop into Anthony Davis in a few years based on what he's done so far but just for comparison's sake, their first year stats aren't that far off. This is Whiteside's first real shot so while he's not a rookie this is essential his first year. Davis as a rookie averaged 13.5 pts, 8.2 rebounds, 1.8 blocks, and 51.6% FGs in basically 29 mpg. This year Whiteside averages 11 pts, 9.8 rebounds, 2.5 blocks, and 61.6% FGs in less than 23 min. Davis was more of the focus of his team while Whiteside has Wade, Bosh, Dragic, and Deng who all get more offensive chances than he does. He also has plays fewer min per game and still exceeds what Davis did except for scoring. Like I already said I'm not claiming he's the next Anthony Davis but I think we need to give him a couple more seasons before saying he's just alright or limiting what he can become.

Vendetta_
03-31-2015, 04:42 PM
Drop the straws. I dont go around posting no to every comment. Just the ones I vehemently disagree with. Tho to be honest, part of me was hoping you would elaborate on your opinion.


Now lets discuss the ACTUAL NBA players.


Stop trying to leave me with so few options, it belittles the point your trying to corner me in. Heres the thing, I dont deny the evolution of the game, I disagree with your opinion of just how much it has evolved. Hence the easy dismissal of such an outlandish claim.

I've seen the numbers on NBA players, the countless rule changes, I know the dire circumstances they played in that wouldn't exist today. Not that athleticism is all that matters in the NBA (far from it) but Russell would be an elite NBA caliber athlete by any standard. He doesn't need ur excuse for a crutch, if you want to give him the added benefit of whatever modern translations you see fit then so much the better.


Yes, Im sure your constant attempts at turning this into a "vendetta" wasn't driven by your username. LOL. I will admit I chuckled too. Now lets stop pretending this is in any way personal. You sound like you expect me to take this forum more seriously than you. Some days I can rise to the occasion.

No.

gwrighter
03-31-2015, 04:52 PM
I don't think he's trying to say that Whiteside is the best young big man in the game today. There are obviously better big men like Anthony Davis, as you mentioned. What he was trying to say is the way he plays reminds him of Bill Russell's style. The biggest comparison he made is the way he blocks shots but keeps them in play rather than swatting them out of bounds like so many shot-blockers do. He absolutely does that whenever possible. This skill is important because it usually leads to the Heat getting the ball on the fast break rather than the opposing team in-bounding after a block out of bounds.

I'm not going to claim that Whiteside is going to develop into Anthony Davis in a few years based on what he's done so far but just for comparison's sake, their first year stats aren't that far off. This is Whiteside's first real shot so while he's not a rookie this is essential his first year. Davis as a rookie averaged 13.5 pts, 8.2 rebounds, 1.8 blocks, and 51.6% FGs in basically 29 mpg. This year Whiteside averages 11 pts, 9.8 rebounds, 2.5 blocks, and 61.6% FGs in less than 23 min. Davis was more of the focus of his team while Whiteside has Wade, Bosh, Dragic, and Deng who all get more offensive chances than he does. He also has plays fewer min per game and still exceeds what Davis did except for scoring. Like I already said I'm not claiming he's the next Anthony Davis but I think we need to give him a couple more seasons before saying he's just alright or limiting what he can become.

Right but that doesn't mean anything. That anecdotal analysis from Cousy can be applied to a lot of big men in the league, in fact that's what they're taught to do now a days. Dwight, Javale McGee, Valanciunas, Davis, Duncan, Mozgov, Noah etc all keep the ball in play when they swat shots regularly. That's nothing new & it isn't indicative of any transcendental skill that would separate Whiteside from anybody else in the league. My point is that Obviously Cousy doesn't watch enough modern day basketball to know the tendencies of every big man across the league to notice this is a common trait. So to infer that Whiteside is special enough because of this to be mentioned along with Bill Russell is hilarious and shows how out of touch Cousy is with contemporary basketball players. Therefore Whiteside isn't a transcendental player because Bob Cousy mentioned him next to Russell.

Davis was 19 as a rookie with No NBA coaching & pro athletic development resources behind him and he posted those numbers. Whiteside is 25 and has been in & out of the league for like 3 years with access to pro level resources. Look at Davis now, he's been in the L for 3 years and he's posting crazy numbers. I know what you're trying to say and my point is that Whiteside is old (25), & he can be a good contributor in this league but on a winning team he'll be a double-double guy that gives you good energy and rim protection. That's not a bad thing, that's actually good, it's just not even remotely close to being a transcendent talent or player & does not warrant being compared to Davis. Whiteside a good player, just not great or even trending to be great.

Chronz
03-31-2015, 05:00 PM
No.

Me neither.

ewing
03-31-2015, 05:48 PM
day late and a dollar short

RCarlson85
04-01-2015, 11:23 AM
Right but that doesn't mean anything. That anecdotal analysis from Cousy can be applied to a lot of big men in the league, in fact that's what they're taught to do now a days. Dwight, Javale McGee, Valanciunas, Davis, Duncan, Mozgov, Noah etc all keep the ball in play when they swat shots regularly. That's nothing new & it isn't indicative of any transcendental skill that would separate Whiteside from anybody else in the league. My point is that Obviously Cousy doesn't watch enough modern day basketball to know the tendencies of every big man across the league to notice this is a common trait. So to infer that Whiteside is special enough because of this to be mentioned along with Bill Russell is hilarious and shows how out of touch Cousy is with contemporary basketball players. Therefore Whiteside isn't a transcendental player because Bob Cousy mentioned him next to Russell.

Davis was 19 as a rookie with No NBA coaching & pro athletic development resources behind him and he posted those numbers. Whiteside is 25 and has been in & out of the league for like 3 years with access to pro level resources. Look at Davis now, he's been in the L for 3 years and he's posting crazy numbers. I know what you're trying to say and my point is that Whiteside is old (25), & he can be a good contributor in this league but on a winning team he'll be a double-double guy that gives you good energy and rim protection. That's not a bad thing, that's actually good, it's just not even remotely close to being a transcendent talent or player & does not warrant being compared to Davis. Whiteside a good player, just not great or even trending to be great.

First of all I think I'll trust Bob Cousy's opinion on b-ball and b-ball players over yours since he's played the game and you and I are posting on a sports forum website. We're obviously not going to agree on this.

How much access do you think Whiteside had to pro level resources when he was playing at the YMCA in Charlotte this summer when he couldn't catch on with a team? How much access did he have when he was playing in Lebanon or China or the D-League? To act like a guy who was the obvious #1 pick in the NBA and a 1 and done college player because he was so good didn't get more professional coaching and development help even by the time he was a rookie in the NBA than Whiteside has even to this point is laughable. He was a top H.S. recruit and went to one of the top b-ball schools in Kentucky. I guarantee he had plenty of coaching and development help from the time he reached top recruit status in H.S.

Whiteside has barely played and hadn't gotten a chance to play until this season. There's no way you can say what his ceiling is that he's only going to be a good player, not great. I'm not sure why you have such a bias against Whiteside and seem so sure of what he will/won't become. I guarantee you're in the minority in the way you think about his skills and potential future success in the NBA.

gwrighter
04-01-2015, 12:18 PM
First of all I think I'll trust Bob Cousy's opinion on b-ball and b-ball players over yours since he's played the game and you and I are posting on a sports forum website. We're obviously not going to agree on this.

How much access do you think Whiteside had to pro level resources when he was playing at the YMCA in Charlotte this summer when he couldn't catch on with a team? How much access did he have when he was playing in Lebanon or China or the D-League? To act like a guy who was the obvious #1 pick in the NBA and a 1 and done college player because he was so good didn't get more professional coaching and development help even by the time he was a rookie in the NBA than Whiteside has even to this point is laughable. He was a top H.S. recruit and went to one of the top b-ball schools in Kentucky. I guarantee he had plenty of coaching and development help from the time he reached top recruit status in H.S.

Whiteside has barely played and hadn't gotten a chance to play until this season. There's no way you can say what his ceiling is that he's only going to be a good player, not great. I'm not sure why you have such a bias against Whiteside and seem so sure of what he will/won't become. I guarantee you're in the minority in the way you think about his skills and potential future success in the NBA.

I'm not asking you to trust my opinion, go and watch other centres in the NBA and you'll see that they possess the same technique that Cousy is alluding to. It's not some ultra rare skill that is reserved for only the greatest of players. It's more common now than in the 60's.

Whiteside has access to pro level resources mainly because he has the time and the money to put all the effort he wants into basketball. He went to various training camps throughout his career and was on teams for a sizeable amount of time including being in the d-league and pro overseas. That's access to pro level resources, it counts.

& No it's not laughable, there are rules in the NCAA that restrict the amount of practice time a coach can have with his players per week and they also have scholastic responsibilities and they aren't getting paid. So NCAA players have differing responsibilities than a pro player, that's not even up for debate, its a fact. You can check it out for yourself if you want by googling NCAA practicing rules.

I can say what his ceiling is because he's already 25 turning 26 this year. He has like 5 year max of peak athleticism left before he starts to decline and I don't see the tools for him to be great. He's got a long wingspan and he can jump, he doesn't pass like Russell, shoot like Dirk or have the post moves of McHale. He doesn't have any great skillful abilities, he has athleticism + size.

I'm definitely not in the minority, if you were to go outside of PSD and to other forums people will tell you the same thing as what I'm telling you now.