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ManningToTyree
03-24-2015, 02:17 PM
Saw an article about this topic relating to the recent retirement of Steve Nash.

So who is the greatest player to never win?

Hawkeye15
03-24-2015, 02:24 PM
man. Probably Barkley?

NYKalltheway
03-24-2015, 02:26 PM
The best is definitely Elgin Baylor. Then we have some more recent ones:

Charles Barkley
Dominique Wilkins
Karl Malone
John Stockton
Patrick Ewing
George Gervin

Marlins97and03
03-24-2015, 02:37 PM
Allen Iverson

Chronz
03-24-2015, 02:40 PM
Best in terms of career or absolute best player?

Tmac was better than anyone named here. His career greatness sucks *** tho

Thumper 88
03-24-2015, 02:45 PM
Malone then Barkley then Stockton

Sadds The Gr8
03-24-2015, 02:47 PM
Barles Charkley

Big Zo
03-24-2015, 02:54 PM
Damon Jones.

NYKalltheway
03-24-2015, 03:13 PM
Best in terms of career or absolute best player?

Tmac was better than anyone named here. His career greatness sucks *** tho

I assume it's best in terms of career as it's something that usually concerns players over their careers. Eg Kevin Garnett wouldn't have a ring if his career ended in 2007 but his legacy wouldn't suffer much without the Boston team imo.

JEDean89
03-24-2015, 03:15 PM
has to be either stockton or malone.

Sly Guy
03-24-2015, 03:16 PM
kobe.

Cuz shaq, then a kid named andrew bynum won him those 'ships....:P

FlashBolt
03-24-2015, 03:21 PM
Iverson? Lol... there is no way Iverson is better than Stockton, Malone, Barkley, CP3, Ewing, Baylor, Nash, etc.

Chronz
03-24-2015, 03:21 PM
Elgin is a fine choice then if we focus on his 6-7 prime years or whatever it was

IBleedPurple
03-24-2015, 03:39 PM
Malone came to mind first, but Sir Charles and Elgin are my top 3. Ewing next, then a tier of Iverson and a couple others.

FlashBolt
03-24-2015, 03:41 PM
Are some of you really suggesting that Allen Iverson is better than Stockton? That's not even funny.

Ezio
03-24-2015, 03:54 PM
Chris Paul

RLundi
03-24-2015, 03:59 PM
Karl Malone in my opinion.

The only thing that dismisses the notion that he's one of the premier talents this league has seen is the absence of a ring.

PurpleLynch
03-24-2015, 04:08 PM
Elgin,Stockton,Malone,Barkley...who knows...Mine is Baylor.

nickdymez
03-24-2015, 04:43 PM
Iverson? Lol... there is no way Iverson is better than Stockton, Malone, Barkley, CP3, Ewing, Baylor, Nash, etc.

There is a way. Its called "opinion"

I would go with Karl Malone on this one though.

archdevil84
03-24-2015, 05:14 PM
john stockton must have been pretty pissed playing in the jordan era

KnicksorBust
03-24-2015, 05:17 PM
The best is definitely Elgin Baylor. Then we have some more recent ones:

Charles Barkley
Dominique Wilkins
Karl Malone
John Stockton
Patrick Ewing
George Gervin

This is a good list. I don't know if you put those in order after Baylor but for me #1 is Karl Malone.

Shady66
03-24-2015, 05:21 PM
Wilt

KnicksorBust
03-24-2015, 05:38 PM
Wilt

He won 2 bro.

KnicksorBust
03-24-2015, 05:38 PM
Chris Paul

Just give him a few months...

Shady66
03-24-2015, 05:38 PM
He won 2 bro.
Damn where am i

NYKalltheway
03-24-2015, 08:35 PM
This is a good list. I don't know if you put those in order after Baylor but for me #1 is Karl Malone.

No order and could have named a few more tbf.

D-Leethal
03-24-2015, 08:41 PM
john stockton must have been pretty pissed playing in the jordan era

This goes back to what I said in the Ewing thread. Stockton should be pissed he played in the Jordan era? He was damn near ****ing 40 when he played MJ. The guy who should be the most pissed he played in the Jordan era is Patrick Ewing. Bar none.

Lost to MJ in '89, '91, '92 (only team to take MJ to 7 during his 6 ships), '93 (ECF)

Make it to game 7 of the Finals (a buzzer beater away from winning in 6) the first year MJ left.

But yea, poor Stockton and Malone for avoiding MJ for damn near 20 seasons and losing anyway before running into him at the age of 40.

NYKalltheway
03-24-2015, 08:54 PM
92' Knicks... Loved that team.

D-Leethal
03-24-2015, 08:56 PM
92' Knicks... Loved that team.

In Phil's book "Sacred Hoops" he raves about that squad and says they were the toughest team his Bulls ever had to get through.

NYKalltheway
03-24-2015, 09:13 PM
In Phil's book "Sacred Hoops" he raves about that squad and says they were the toughest team his Bulls ever had to get through.

I've just looked at the roster again and realized why I loved that team other than what it brought on the court... Look at the depth of that team :)

asandhu23
03-24-2015, 11:38 PM
Wilt

smh.

Shady66
03-25-2015, 12:01 AM
**** y'all I made a mistake

PowerHouse
03-25-2015, 12:42 AM
The answer is easily Elgin Baylor. I know the Lakers gave him an honorary ring since he played the first 10 or so games in the '72 championship season but that sheeiit dont count!

Phantom Dreamer
03-25-2015, 12:56 AM
john stockton must have been pretty pissed playing in the jordan era

This goes back to what I said in the Ewing thread. Stockton should be pissed he played in the Jordan era? He was damn near ****ing 40 when he played MJ. The guy who should be the most pissed he played in the Jordan era is Patrick Ewing. Bar none.

Lost to MJ in '89, '91, '92 (only team to take MJ to 7 during his 6 ships), '93 (ECF)

Make it to game 7 of the Finals (a buzzer beater away from winning in 6) the first year MJ left.

But yea, poor Stockton and Malone for avoiding MJ for damn near 20 seasons and losing anyway before running into him at the age of 40.Ewing also lost to the Bulls in '96 and the Pacers extended the Bulls to 7 games in the '98 ECF.

Vince70
03-25-2015, 08:31 AM
Barkley or Malone.

KnicksorBust
03-25-2015, 12:53 PM
The answer is easily Elgin Baylor. I know the Lakers gave him an honorary ring since he played the first 10 or so games in the '72 championship season but that sheeiit dont count!

You gotta realize that Malone gave his teams an extra 6 playoff seasons to win compared to Baylor.

nickdymez
03-25-2015, 12:58 PM
**** y'all I made a mistake

lmfao

PowerHouse
03-25-2015, 03:25 PM
You gotta realize that Malone gave his teams an extra 6 playoff seasons to win compared to Baylor.

Since when do we put somebody on a pedestal just for "making the playoffs"? If anything that was just 6 more opportunities to fizzle out in disappointing fashion to a variety of different opponents, which he did.

You realize that Baylor took his team to 8 NBA Finals compared to Malone's 3 right? You realize that Baylor had the most dominant juggernaut of a dynasty in sports history to compete against year after year right?

Raidaz4Life
03-25-2015, 03:42 PM
Malone

Chronz
03-25-2015, 03:51 PM
You gotta realize that Malone gave his teams an extra 6 playoff seasons to win compared to Baylor.

Not only that, but at what point do we start holding it against a player for costing his team a chance to win? Malone had those extra years , but those years widen when you consider how detrimental Elgin's ego/ball dominance was to the Lakers in those later years.

NYKalltheway
03-25-2015, 03:51 PM
Since when do we put somebody on a pedestal just for "making the playoffs"? If anything that was just 6 more opportunities to fizzle out in disappointing fashion to a variety of different opponents, which he did.

You realize that Baylor took his team to 8 NBA Finals compared to Malone's 3 right? You realize that Baylor had the most dominant juggernaut of a dynasty in sports history to compete against year after year right?

He doesn't have the "stats" though, so he's not gonna get any love here

Chronz
03-25-2015, 03:58 PM
Since when do we put somebody on a pedestal just for "making the playoffs"? If anything that was just 6 more opportunities to fizzle out in disappointing fashion to a variety of different opponents, which he did.

You realize that Baylor took his team to 8 NBA Finals compared to Malone's 3 right? You realize that Baylor had the most dominant juggernaut of a dynasty in sports history to compete against year after year right?

Decent point. Except that Baylor had a juggernaut of a team, it just didn't come to fruition because he himself was holding them back. No coincidence they ran off the greatest winning streak in NBA history the minute he retired. Sure he was well past his prime by then, but thats even more of a reason that he should have deferred to his more talented teammates. Instead he clashed with the only other guy to actually know what a championship tasted like.

I would like to see a better breakdown of their value than summarizing their Finals births.

Chronz
03-25-2015, 03:59 PM
**** y'all I made a mistake

Prolly bought the narrative of ol' loser Wilt huh... Its ok, lots of propaganda out there

Shady66
03-25-2015, 04:01 PM
Prolly bought the narrative of ol' loser Wilt huh... Its ok, lots of propaganda out there
I think the last thing I watched on him was a documentary about him and Kareem and they made it seem like kareem was a winner and wilt was a loser. I'm so sorry everybody, ive let you all down

Chronz
03-25-2015, 04:02 PM
He doesn't have the "stats" though, so he's not gonna get any love here

I loathe Malone. Im pretty sure Elgin has a statistical case to make. I still dont think its clear cut. I just dislike Elgin's final third of his career that much. At his peak, hes better than anyone save for Tmac (Im dead serious), but his career was cut short by the era and injury. Malone was just so durable that he makes it a conversation. I have Chuck above both but its not by much.

Chronz
03-25-2015, 04:08 PM
I think the last thing I watched on him was a documentary about him and Kareem and they made it seem like kareem was a winner and wilt was a loser. I'm so sorry everybody, ive let you all down

Howd you find out the truth? Google?

KingstonHawke
03-25-2015, 04:18 PM
Malone, Iverson, and T-Mac are the top names I can think of. All 3 are ridiculously underrated.

Still wish the Lakers would've traded Shaq to the Magic for T-Mac and the 1st overall instead of to Miami. People forget that Howard wasn't rated so high that that deal wouldn't of made sense. And Kobe and TMac together would've been better than Jordan and Pippen.

Phantom Dreamer
03-25-2015, 05:21 PM
Kobe's ego wouldn't have allowed it.

R. Johnson#3
03-25-2015, 05:41 PM
Stockton

lukass
03-25-2015, 05:57 PM
Nash and Iverson

lukass
03-25-2015, 05:58 PM
If not for injuries Tmac and G Hill

Tony_Starks
03-25-2015, 07:22 PM
Stockton, Iverson, or Barkley.

Any of those three.

Mr.B
03-25-2015, 07:45 PM
Barkley
Malone
Stockton
Baylor
Reggie Miller
Ewing
D. Wilkins
Kevin Johnson
Iverson

archdevil84
03-25-2015, 08:01 PM
This goes back to what I said in the Ewing thread. Stockton should be pissed he played in the Jordan era? He was damn near ****ing 40 when he played MJ. The guy who should be the most pissed he played in the Jordan era is Patrick Ewing. Bar none.

Lost to MJ in '89, '91, '92 (only team to take MJ to 7 during his 6 ships), '93 (ECF)

Make it to game 7 of the Finals (a buzzer beater away from winning in 6) the first year MJ left.

But yea, poor Stockton and Malone for avoiding MJ for damn near 20 seasons and losing anyway before running into him at the age of 40.

lol nvm about him then. i've only been watching NBA since 2010-11 so i dont know **** about what happened in the jordan era. i thought those jazz bulls finals were during his low-mid 30s or something

Ty Fast
03-25-2015, 08:29 PM
Dan Marino

PowerHouse
03-25-2015, 08:56 PM
lol nvm about him then. i've only been watching NBA since 2010-11 so i dont know **** about what happened in the jordan era. i thought those jazz bulls finals were during his low-mid 30s or something

You are right it was his mid-30s. Ages 34 and 35 in '97 and '98.

KnicksorBust
03-25-2015, 09:23 PM
You gotta realize that Malone gave his teams an extra 6 playoff seasons to win compared to Baylor.

Since when do we put somebody on a pedestal just for "making the playoffs"? If anything that was just 6 more opportunities to fizzle out in disappointing fashion to a variety of different opponents, which he did.

You realize that Baylor took his team to 8 NBA Finals compared to Malone's 3 right? You realize that Baylor had the most dominant juggernaut of a dynasty in sports history to compete against year after year right?

Yea. You realize that Baylor only had to win one round of the playoffs to get to the Finals right? And Karl Malone had to win 3 rounds and compete with about 3x as many teams to get there.

JasonJohnHorn
03-25-2015, 09:24 PM
From the modern era....Stockton gets my vote. Malone and Barkley are a wash for me... though I always preferred Barkley. They are in a close second. I think Gervin and Ewing are tied for next.


Of the older players, there are a bunch that come to mind, but the style of game changed so much from the 60's to 70's and then to the 80's. Being a Pistons fan, I'm tempted to place Bob Laneir high up there, and maybe Bign as well. Elgin Baylor obviously gets mention.

Of the players I loved to watch.... Reggie Miller ranks high, though I wouldn't say he was as good as the other guys I mentioned.

Everybody seems to be mentioning the guys at the top here. But of all those players, I think it is hard to find one more skilled than Stockton.

KnicksorBust
03-25-2015, 09:25 PM
Since when do we put somebody on a pedestal just for "making the playoffs"? If anything that was just 6 more opportunities to fizzle out in disappointing fashion to a variety of different opponents, which he did.

You realize that Baylor took his team to 8 NBA Finals compared to Malone's 3 right? You realize that Baylor had the most dominant juggernaut of a dynasty in sports history to compete against year after year right?

Decent point. Except that Baylor had a juggernaut of a team, it just didn't come to fruition because he himself was holding them back. No coincidence they ran off the greatest winning streak in NBA history the minute he retired. Sure he was well past his prime by then, but thats even more of a reason that he should have deferred to his more talented teammates. Instead he clashed with the only other guy to actually know what a championship tasted like.

I would like to see a better breakdown of their value than summarizing their Finals births.

I would agree its a decent point except he wants accuse me of ignoring context while giving no reference how there were less amount of teams to beat and only one round of playoffs before the Finals.

IKnowHoops
03-25-2015, 10:05 PM
If Iverson isn't better than stockton, than Kobe isn't better than Jerry West.

Chronz
03-25-2015, 10:12 PM
If Iverson isn't better than stockton, than Kobe isn't better than Jerry West.

Interesting thought. How do you figure that?

PowerHouse
03-25-2015, 10:46 PM
I would agree its a decent point except he wants accuse me of ignoring context while giving no reference how there were less amount of teams to beat and only one round of playoffs before the Finals.

I had a feeling you were going to bring the number of rounds of playoffs as if its Baylor's fault he played in the era he did. How many rounds do you want when the league had only 9 teams? Fewer teams in the league ment that every team was much more loaded with talent. You didnt have the weak teams like in today's NBA with Knicks, Lakers, Sixers, etc.

But the main point is the brick wall known as the Celtics that he had to deal with every year. Malone got ousted by a wide variety of teams in his career.

mightybosstone
03-25-2015, 11:41 PM
It's Barkley or Robinson. To me, those guys are a tier above Malone, Stockton, Baylor, etc.

PowerHouse
03-26-2015, 12:47 AM
It's Barkley or Robinson. To me, those guys are a tier above Malone, Stockton, Baylor, etc.

Robinson as in David? You may want to re-think that one.

mightybosstone
03-26-2015, 01:06 AM
Robinson as in David? You may want to re-think that one.
Oh yeah. Duh... I sometimes forget he won two titles because of the whole "no titles as an alpha dog" thing. Also it's been a long week at work and I'm delirious.