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View Full Version : NBA.com ranked "The List: Top 10 two-way players"



KnicksorBust
03-23-2015, 01:01 PM
http://www.nba.com/2015/news/hca/03/23/the-list-top-10-two-way-players/index.html?ls=nbahpsplit3

10. Serge Ibaka
9. Al Horford
8. Tim Duncan
7. Jimmy Butler
6. Kawhi Leonard
5. Klay Thompson
4. Marc Gasol
3. Chris Paul
2. LeBron James
1. Anthony Davis

KnicksorBust
03-23-2015, 01:02 PM
Great list. I feel like it's very rare that I read a ranking and my first reaction is... "wow, good job." But this was a great list.

Raps18-19 Champ
03-23-2015, 01:04 PM
They are missing James Harden.

KnicksorBust
03-23-2015, 01:06 PM
They are missing James Harden.

:rolleyes:

Chronz
03-23-2015, 01:11 PM
Not sold on AD, LeBron or Butler this year

goingfor28
03-23-2015, 01:17 PM
List looks solid to me

valade16
03-23-2015, 01:27 PM
Anthony Davis is definitely not the best 2 way player in the league. He gets a lot of blocks and steals but he is not a Tim Duncan or Marc Gasol game changer on that end. Doesn't NO have below average defense?

Also, Serge Ibaka should not be on that list because he isn't a very good offensive player. It's no surprise that when he is asked to be the #2 man on OKC (whenever injuries hit KD or Westy) he sucks. He has a negative OBPM this season (and 5/6 seasons of his career).

D-Leethal
03-23-2015, 01:32 PM
I wonder where DeAndre Jordan is.

kdspurman
03-23-2015, 01:35 PM
Is Lebron still really #2? I know he can turn it on, but night in and night out?

I'd also have Kawhi somewhere in the top 5. Maybe swap him w/Klay.

kdspurman
03-23-2015, 01:36 PM
Anthony Davis is definitely not the best 2 way player in the league. He gets a lot of blocks and steals but he is not a Tim Duncan or Marc Gasol game changer on that end. Doesn't NO have below average defense?

Also, Serge Ibaka should not be on that list because he isn't a very good offensive player. It's no surprise that when he is asked to be the #2 man on OKC (whenever injuries hit KD or Westy) he sucks. He has a negative OBPM this season (and 5/6 seasons of his career).

+1 on all this.

LakersIn5
03-23-2015, 01:39 PM
No harden, love and melo? Wtf

Goose17
03-23-2015, 01:55 PM
Not sold on AD, LeBron or Butler this year

AD and LeBron I can see why. But what do you see with Butler that you don't like?

valade16
03-23-2015, 01:55 PM
I wonder where DeAndre Jordan is.

Not on the list because he is nowhere near a great offensive player. He is excellent in his small niche role on offense which is basically "don't do anything". 41% FT, has taken 3 shots outside of 3 ft. all season.

Tony_Starks
03-23-2015, 01:58 PM
Lebron has no earthly business on that list.

KnicksorBust
03-23-2015, 02:09 PM
Anthony Davis is definitely not the best 2 way player in the league. He gets a lot of blocks and steals but he is not a Tim Duncan or Marc Gasol game changer on that end. Doesn't NO have below average defense?

Also, Serge Ibaka should not be on that list because he isn't a very good offensive player. It's no surprise that when he is asked to be the #2 man on OKC (whenever injuries hit KD or Westy) he sucks. He has a negative OBPM this season (and 5/6 seasons of his career).

But Marc Gasol and Tim Duncan aren't nearly the same game changer that Davis is offensively. How do you balance the trade-off?

xnick5757
03-23-2015, 02:16 PM
Anthony Davis is definitely not the best 2 way player in the league. He gets a lot of blocks and steals but he is not a Tim Duncan or Marc Gasol game changer on that end. Doesn't NO have below average defense?

Also, Serge Ibaka should not be on that list because he isn't a very good offensive player. It's no surprise that when he is asked to be the #2 man on OKC (whenever injuries hit KD or Westy) he sucks. He has a negative OBPM this season (and 5/6 seasons of his career).

Davis's defense might be a little behind Duncan/Gasol but he is a much better offensive player than either of them

nastynice
03-23-2015, 02:20 PM
Lebron in Miami, sure, but this year he seems to be getting a lot of credit off of name recognition

curtcocaine
03-23-2015, 02:26 PM
D Green???

cmellofan15
03-23-2015, 02:29 PM
Davis's defense might be a little behind Duncan/Gasol but he is a much better offensive player than either of them

nahh, those guys are defensive anchors of two the top 5 defenses in the league. they affect the team defenses in a HUGE way. AD can stuff the stat sheets all he wants but he doesn't have that kind of presence.

Goose17
03-23-2015, 02:31 PM
Davis's defense might be a little behind Duncan/Gasol but he is a much better offensive player than either of them

You really think so? I think both have superior footwork in the post.

KnicksorBust
03-23-2015, 02:35 PM
You really think so? I think both have superior footwork in the post.

There is infinitely more to Davis's offensive game than footwork... his speed/athleticism destroy those vets.

RLundi
03-23-2015, 02:37 PM
nahh, those guys are defensive anchors of two the top 5 defenses in the league. they affect the team defenses in a HUGE way. AD can stuff the stat sheets all he wants but he doesn't have that kind of presence.

Yeah but AD is ahead of them both offensively. It's got to be a balance of both. No player in the league is elite on both ends of the floor, save maybe Chris Paul, when he wants to be, that is.

PhillySportFan
03-23-2015, 02:37 PM
CP3? Admittedly, I haven't watched much CP3 at all this season, so I'm a bit foggy on this but I always thought his defense was average at best.

KnicksorBust
03-23-2015, 02:40 PM
CP3? Admittedly, I haven't watched much CP3 at all this season, so I'm a bit foggy on this but I always thought his defense was average at best.

http://grantland.com/features/department-of-defense/

Easily one of the best defenders in the league this season...

JLynn943
03-23-2015, 03:04 PM
I know he hasn't played this year, but doesn't Paul George count as "in the league right now"?

That aside, Davis probably isn't number one yet, and Ibaka shouldn't be on the list. I'd be curious to see defensive metrics on Wesley Matthews, but he may not be enough of a force offensively to make it either.

Sactown
03-23-2015, 03:08 PM
Boogie

JLynn943
03-23-2015, 03:25 PM
Boogie

Definitely a better defender than people realize, but still, probably not top 10 :p

Goose17
03-23-2015, 03:32 PM
There is infinitely more to Davis's offensive game than footwork... his speed/athleticism destroy those vets.

There's more to offense than speed and athleticism. Like, you know, skill. The better offensive big man, to me, means fundamentals, overall skillset, passing, ball handling, being able to finish in a multitude of ways etc etc. Basically there's many factors. I would say both Gasol and Duncan are still better on offense. Davis is a scary good offensive player though.

Each to their own I guess.

Vendetta_
03-23-2015, 03:46 PM
It seems like Anthony Davis went from underrated to overrated overnight.

valade16
03-23-2015, 03:53 PM
Davis's defense might be a little behind Duncan/Gasol but he is a much better offensive player than either of them

True, it's a tough thing to measure. AD is not elite yet on both ends of the floor. He is however extremely good overall so I see your point.

Minimal
03-23-2015, 04:12 PM
No Westbrook? Disgrace. A freaking point guard, who leads his team in defensive box plus/minus and 1st in the league in offensive box plus/minus.

R. Johnson#3
03-23-2015, 04:16 PM
D Green???

On a 3&D list yeah, but not this one.

curtcocaine
03-23-2015, 04:26 PM
On a 3&D list yeah, but not this one.
Whats two way than. Care to elaborate?

IKnowHoops
03-23-2015, 04:33 PM
AD
Bron
Leonard
Westbrook

IKnowHoops
03-23-2015, 04:37 PM
Lebron in Miami, sure, but this year he seems to be getting a lot of credit off of name recognition

He's not as good as he once was, but his D has fallen off about as much as his O, which still makes him a beast. He's still jumping passing lanes like a cat, he's still boarding down low, he can still guard 1-5, and he still one of a kind who makes one of a kind plays on the defensive end. There is still no other wing like him on defense when he digs in.

alexander_37
03-23-2015, 04:50 PM
Dwight should be on there honestly.

The only change from his career average is he is getting 2 less FT attempts per game.

He is shooting the same % on the same amount of shots, his rebounding is down a bit, and his blocks are down a bit. Morey himself posted stats that put dwight as the most dominant post defender and is allowing a league low FG% at the rim when he is in the game.

kdspurman
03-23-2015, 04:52 PM
He's not as good as he once was, but his D has fallen off about as much as his O, which still makes him a beast. He's still jumping passing lanes like a cat, he's still boarding down low, he can still guard 1-5, and he still one of a kind who makes one of a kind plays on the defensive end. There is still no other wing like him on defense when he digs in.

I think Kawhi has this season imho. He is an absolute terror out there consistently

flea
03-23-2015, 04:53 PM
http://www.nba.com/2015/news/hca/03/23/the-list-top-10-two-way-players/index.html?ls=nbahpsplit3

10. Serge Ibaka
9. Al Horford
8. Tim Duncan
7. Jimmy Butler
6. Kawhi Leonard
5. Klay Thompson
4. Marc Gasol
3. Chris Paul
2. LeBron James
1. Anthony Davis

Lebron doesn't belong on the list, and AD is much lower than 1st. I would go something like:

Butler, Davis, Thompson, Ibaka, Danny Green, Horford, Paul, Duncan, Leonard, Gasol.

Green is underrated - he is an elite (top 5) perimeter defender at 2 positions and very good at a 3rd and he is 2nd on his team in points scored this season. Oh and his team happens to be one of the better ones in the NBA and he has been the 2nd most important player on that team this season (this year was Duncan's show).

Goose17
03-23-2015, 04:54 PM
I think Kawhi has this season imho. He is an absolute terror out there consistently

I vote Draymond. He can guard 3 positions at an elite level and the other 2 positions pretty well too. He's the most versatile defender in the league. :)

numba1CHANGsta
03-23-2015, 05:13 PM
Add Green, Cousins, Harden, Westbrook and take out Leonard, Duncan. Ibaka, Horford

kdspurman
03-23-2015, 05:23 PM
I vote Draymond. He can guard 3 positions at an elite level and the other 2 positions pretty well too. He's the most versatile defender in the league. :)

thats fair ;) . though kawhi does similar things as well if youre talking versatility. he guards multiple positions too, from westbrook/paul to harden to dirk or LeBron, etc... i feel like he's the best perimeter defender we've got.

if he hadnt missed 18 games, he'd probably be in discussion for dpoy if hes not already.

kdspurman
03-23-2015, 05:24 PM
Add Green, Cousins, Harden, Westbrook and take out Leonard, Duncan. Ibaka, Horford

take out Leonard And Duncan? is that for real?

jimm120
03-23-2015, 05:41 PM
http://www.nba.com/2015/news/hca/03/23/the-list-top-10-two-way-players/index.html?ls=nbahpsplit3

10. Serge Ibaka
9. Al Horford
8. Tim Duncan
7. Jimmy Butler
6. Kawhi Leonard
5. Klay Thompson
4. Marc Gasol
3. Chris Paul
2. LeBron James
1. Anthony Davis


I think Al Horford should be ahead of Leaonard in 6th place, not 9th.

but aside for that, it's a good list.

Bostonjorge
03-23-2015, 05:45 PM
No Westbrook? Disgrace. A freaking point guard, who leads his team in defensive box plus/minus and 1st in the league in offensive box plus/minus.
Westbrooks defense is right there with Paul. He should be in the top 5.

kdspurman
03-23-2015, 06:08 PM
I think Al Horford should be ahead of Leaonard in 6th place, not 9th.

but aside for that, it's a good list.

love horfords game, but whats the argument for him to be ahead of Kawhi?

FlashBolt
03-23-2015, 06:13 PM
Lebron should not be on this list. I'm guessing they are basing this off of when they are actually 100% in tuned because James has not played a lick of defense other than when he feels a game is personal (vs GSW or Spurs).

bgdreton
03-23-2015, 06:25 PM
Lebron in Miami, sure, but this year he seems to be getting a lot of credit off of name recognition

He's not as good as he once was, but his D has fallen off about as much as his O, which still makes him a beast. He's still jumping passing lanes like a cat, he's still boarding down low, he can still guard 1-5, and he still one of a kind who makes one of a kind plays on the defensive end. There is still no other wing like him on defense when he digs in.

Umm no never could never will. 4s ok depending on match up 5 never unless it's draymond green playing the 5.

FlashBolt
03-23-2015, 06:38 PM
I never understood the 1-5 part. He can guard some 5's but there is no way James can cover a 5 for an entire game. In stretches, he certainly can.

SeoulBeatz
03-23-2015, 06:44 PM
nahh, those guys are defensive anchors of two the top 5 defenses in the league. they affect the team defenses in a HUGE way. AD can stuff the stat sheets all he wants but he doesn't have that kind of presence.

He would if he had as much defensive talent surrounding him as Timmy and Gasol do.

A.D has a subpar supporting cast and he's the sole reason the Pelicans are in the playoff hunt.

Also A.D's offense >>>>>> Duncan and Gasol.

SeoulBeatz
03-23-2015, 06:47 PM
You really think so? I think both have superior footwork in the post.

This is true, but A.D has a great outside shot, above average post moves, and he can run the break better than any C in the league. Watching his game tape is amazing. I think he's still underrated IMO. He's everywhere on both ends of the court.

Method28
03-23-2015, 08:09 PM
I don't get how anyone can argue the inclusion of Paul, Leonard, Duncan, Davis and Gasol on this list. Their positioning, sure. However a list without anyone one of those 5 is absurd IMO.

Jeffy25
03-23-2015, 09:35 PM
Thompson D that good?

I honestly don't know

SPURSFAN1
03-23-2015, 10:19 PM
Klay better than Kawhi? lol

We know kawhi shows up to the playoffs too.

SPURSFAN1
03-23-2015, 10:20 PM
Thompson D that good?

I honestly don't know

Not better than Kawhi best defender in the league.

SPURSFAN1
03-23-2015, 10:23 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PFmcjk1jX4

Blitzbolt
03-23-2015, 10:56 PM
Davis is a great player but people forget how young he is Duncan has show us now and in the past how is done and Gasol is his prime right now.

Also both Duncan and Gasol are way better at passing then AD of course age has a lot to do with it.

PowerHouse
03-24-2015, 12:18 AM
http://www.nba.com/2015/news/hca/03/23/the-list-top-10-two-way-players/index.html?ls=nbahpsplit3

10. Serge Ibaka
9. Al Horford
8. Tim Duncan
7. Jimmy Butler
6. Kawhi Leonard
5. Klay Thompson
4. Marc Gasol
3. Chris Paul
2. LeBron James
1. Anthony Davis

I would go

10.Horford
9. Lebron
8. Duncan
7. Butler
6. Thompson
5. Westbrook
4. Marc
3. Kawhi
2. AD
1. CP3

nastynice
03-24-2015, 01:41 AM
Thompson D that good?

I honestly don't know

oh, its VERY good. Not elite, but def good enough to be a top 10 two way player.

Chronz
03-24-2015, 02:34 AM
True, it's a tough thing to measure. AD is not elite yet on both ends of the floor. He is however extremely good overall so I see your point.

Yeah. You guys are right, his offense is so ahead of everyone else's defense, that he makes the list almost by default

Goose17
03-24-2015, 03:24 AM
Not better than Kawhi best defender in the league.

His offense is better than Kawhi though. If Kawhi hadn't been injured then he would definitely be on this list.

The gap between Klay and Kawhi defensively isn't as big as you seem to think it is.

Sly Guy
03-24-2015, 11:39 AM
kyle lowry is left off?

kdspurman
03-24-2015, 11:59 AM
His offense is better than Kawhi though. If Kawhi hadn't been injured then he would definitely be on this list.

The gap between Klay and Kawhi defensively isn't as big as you seem to think it is.

Kawhi is on the list though. (unless I missed something) and has improved a great deal offensively and distributing/ball handling more. Klay obviously is a better shooter and ball handler, but Kawhi in the post is usually money.

I haven't watched Klay in too many games to know his defensive impact to determine whether this is true or not. I just know what Kawhi does and the statistical evidence that's out there in terms of how he effects a game defensively. Feel like he's probably the best wing defender in the game, along with CP3 this year.