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View Full Version : Alonzo Mourning Wonders Why LJB left MIA; Apparently forgets time he left MIA



JasonJohnHorn
03-17-2015, 09:31 PM
https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/alonzo-mourning-is-the-latest-heat-legend-to-take-offense-to-lebron-james-leaving-miami-201059432.html

Pat Riley came out a couple of weeks ago, bemoaning LBJ's departure and saying they could have had something special. Now Alonzo Mourning has come out and said that he finds it difficult to understand why James left, as if winning a championship in your home town is hard to understand.

Ironically, though, Mourning seems to forget when he ditched Miami to play with J-Kidd and the Nets.


This 24-hours sports news cycles seems to really bring up the most pointless articles, but what I find odd is that nobody seems to note the irony of Mourning's comments.


Thoughts?

Jeffy25
03-17-2015, 09:38 PM
Professional athletes aren't smart?

Tony_Starks
03-17-2015, 09:56 PM
You means he questioned a player bailing on a team that went to 4 straight Finals because he no longer felt his team was stacked?

Balderdash!!!

PowerHouse
03-17-2015, 10:42 PM
To keep things fair (and I hate Mourning and the Heat), Alonzo didnt "ditch" Miami. Miami chose not to renew his contract due to concerns about Mourning's poor/declining health with his kidney disease which caused him to miss the entire 02-03 season.

naps
03-17-2015, 11:27 PM
https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/alonzo-mourning-is-the-latest-heat-legend-to-take-offense-to-lebron-james-leaving-miami-201059432.html

Pat Riley came out a couple of weeks ago, bemoaning LBJ's departure and saying they could have had something special. Now Alonzo Mourning has come out and said that he finds it difficult to understand why James left, as if winning a championship in your home town is hard to understand.

Ironically, though, Mourning seems to forget when he ditched Miami to play with J-Kidd and the Nets.


This 24-hours sports news cycles seems to really bring up the most pointless articles, but what I find odd is that nobody seems to note the irony of Mourning's comments.


Thoughts?

Your information is wrong about Alonzo. And secondly Alonzo was not nearly the player LeBron is at that time. With LeBron Miami would still go to the finals this year. That version of Alonzo was just a mere role player.

SMH!
03-17-2015, 11:53 PM
To keep things fair (and I hate Mourning and the Heat), Alonzo didnt "ditch" Miami. Miami chose not to renew his contract due to concerns about Mourning's poor/declining health with his kidney disease which caused him to miss the entire 02-03 season.

This.

GodsSon
03-17-2015, 11:53 PM
Mourning is a clown.

Chronz
03-18-2015, 12:25 AM
To keep things fair (and I hate Mourning and the Heat), Alonzo didnt "ditch" Miami. Miami chose not to renew his contract due to concerns about Mourning's poor/declining health with his kidney disease which caused him to miss the entire 02-03 season.

Any sources? I thought I remember the team wanting him back but definitely not at his old contract amount. Nobody wanted Mourning at that price.

WaDe03
03-18-2015, 01:04 AM
Dragic/Chalmers
Wade/Deng
LeBron/Deng
Bosh/McRoberts
Whiteside/Birdman

Get everyone to take a slight pay cut to keep Deng and that's the best team of all-time.

kozelkid
03-18-2015, 02:54 AM
Dragic/Chalmers
Wade/Deng
LeBron/Deng
Bosh/McRoberts
Whiteside/Birdman

Get everyone to take a slight pay cut to keep Deng and that's the best team of all-time.
There is no way the Heat have Deng if Lebron had stayed.

jakedajewler
03-18-2015, 02:57 AM
Didn't he do the same with the Raptors? Said he wouldn't play for them so they traded him as soon as they got him?

Big Zo
03-18-2015, 04:56 AM
Stupid pointless article.

MonroeFAN
03-18-2015, 06:17 AM
Alonzo morning is the biggest POS in the universe. He also seems to have a short memory.

Big Zo
03-18-2015, 06:23 AM
Alonzo morning is the biggest POS in the universe. He also seems to have a short memory.

He makes those guys from ISIS look like puppies.

MonroeFAN
03-18-2015, 06:35 AM
Heat fan to the rescue Alonzo.

You're right, I was being extreme. Still, this guy is incredibly easy to dislike.

Big Zo
03-18-2015, 07:09 AM
Heat fan to the rescue Alonzo.

Nah man, i'm agreeing with you. We should all pelt him with rocks.

MonroeFAN
03-18-2015, 07:12 AM
I edited my comment. You're right.

NYKnickFanatic
03-18-2015, 07:19 AM
Dragic/Chalmers
Wade/Deng
LeBron/Deng
Bosh/McRoberts
Whiteside/Birdman

Get everyone to take a slight pay cut to keep Deng and that's the best team of all-time.

The best team of all time?

Really...

Vince70
03-18-2015, 07:44 AM
Miami was going into a full rebuild mode at the time Zo signed with New Jersey, whom were going for a 3rd straight trip to Finals and the C position was their weak link, so it made plenty of sense why all parties thought it was for the best after 02-03.

Zo still shouldn't question why LeBron left Miami and went back to Cleveland. It would be very easy for him to figure out why if he actually thought about it for more than a second.

ewing
03-18-2015, 08:04 AM
Didn't he do the same with the Raptors? Said he wouldn't play for them so they traded him as soon as they got him?

this is when Zo acted like a dick. He didn't even cross the boarder. The Nets gave him a multi year deal and more $ then anyone would think of giving a guy with the health concerns he had. I remember people being shocked by the terms of the contract. I don't remember if the Heat were willing to bring him back but he "left" the Heat under very different circumstances then Bron

kdspurman
03-18-2015, 08:21 AM
There is no way the Heat have Deng if Lebron had stayed.

Or Dragic. And possibly Whiteside. (and definitely not the best team of all time)

J_M_B
03-18-2015, 08:35 AM
Or Dragic. And possibly Whiteside. (and definitely not the best team of all time)

Yea no way we have either Deng or Dragic, but according to Spo, Whiteside was lock to be on the roster this year until Memphis scooped him up during training camp. He worked out for the coaching staff multiple times during the summer.

Dade County
03-18-2015, 08:50 AM
Comparing Zo's situation with Lbj is crazy.


Lbj went to 4 straight Finals (even though he cost Wade a ring and a Final's Mvp), he turns around and conspires (even though thats how he ended up with the HEAT too, lol) to leave back to the team that couldn't place players around him (so of course Stern stepped in and gave them 1st rd draft pics...etc).

But whatever, NBA = Entertainment and most NBA fans loved that Lbj went back to the "anus of America" (nick name by Channing Crowder).


What some of you don't understand, Pat would have kept on building Miami up; who would have stopped them from getting to the Final's, year after year... for the next 5yrs?

Lbj would have threw a couple of more Final's in that run, so the NBA masses wouldn't have went crazy (to let it be known, I am not a Lbj fan after what he did in the HEAT vs Mav's Final's).

kdspurman
03-18-2015, 08:57 AM
Yea no way we have either Deng or Dragic, but according to Spo, Whiteside was lock to be on the roster this year until Memphis scooped him up during training camp. He worked out for the coaching staff multiple times during the summer.

Ah ok. I knew he was with Memphis during training camp, I didn't fully know he was a lock. With or without LBJ, if he can control himself a little better, and continue to improve his game, he has some serious potential

JasonJohnHorn
03-18-2015, 08:57 AM
To keep things fair (and I hate Mourning and the Heat), Alonzo didnt "ditch" Miami. Miami chose not to renew his contract due to concerns about Mourning's poor/declining health with his kidney disease which caused him to miss the entire 02-03 season.

As I remember it, he had said that Miami was willing to have him back, but he wasn't sure how long he'd have to play and wanted to play on a contender. The same reason he gave when he refused to even show up to Toronto after he was traded there, and went, ironically enough, to Miami.

But even so... if Miami did turn their back on him because of his injury, then that is all the more reason to for Mourning to not question this.

JasonJohnHorn
03-18-2015, 09:02 AM
He makes those guys from ISIS look like puppies.

you hyperbole really drives home how ridiculous the prior comment is

I'm a Raptors fan, so naturally I don't like Mourning because he snubbed us, but whether you like him as a person, he was a great defender and rebounder, and he did a LOT of charity work in Africa. Dude is practically a saint; even if he comes across like an @$$hole in interviews, you have to respect all the great work he's done off the court.

JasonJohnHorn
03-18-2015, 09:09 AM
Comparing Zo's situation with Lbj is crazy.


Lbj went to 4 straight Finals (even though he cost Wade a ring and a Final's Mvp), he turns around and conspires (even though thats how he ended up with the HEAT too, lol) to leave back to the team that couldn't place players around him (so of course Stern stepped in and gave them 1st rd draft pics...etc).

But whatever, NBA = Entertainment and most NBA fans loved that Lbj went back to the "anus of America" (nick name by Channing Crowder).


What some of you don't understand, Pat would have kept on building Miami up; who would have stopped them from getting to the Final's, year after year... for the next 5yrs?

Lbj would have threw a couple of more Final's in that run, so the NBA masses wouldn't have went crazy (to let it be known, I am not a Lbj fan after what he did in the HEAT vs Mav's Final's).

Sure the situations are different.

But Zo is saying they have a 'winning' culture. If he truly believed that, then he would have stuck around, and ironically enough, he ended up going back there to win it. Zo didn't have faith in Riley being able to turn things around. So why should he expect LBJ to think any differently? The Heat had won a weak east four years ina row, but in the finals got out played three times. One time they got lucky with a missed shot on the Spurs end, two missed rebounds, and a made hail mary, otherwise they would have lost (which isn't meant to take anything away from them, because they earned that and put in a lot of work to be in a position where a luck bounce would help them), but let's face it. Last year, the Heat got embarrassed by the Spurs, and the year before there were lucky to get past Indy and the Spurs. The Heat team was not getting any better; Wade's health is a legit question, and with Bosh over 30, the championship window was closing.

In CLE they have a bunch of young guys under 25 and the #1 pick int he draft. It is his home town, longer championship window. What is the question Mourning has.

Mourning left Miami for a better situation.
LBJ left Miami for a better situation.

It's not rocket science.

MonroeFAN
03-18-2015, 09:29 AM
you hyperbole really drives home how ridiculous the prior comment is

I'm a Raptors fan, so naturally I don't like Mourning because he snubbed us, but whether you like him as a person, he was a great defender and rebounder, and he did a LOT of charity work in Africa. Dude is practically a saint; even if he comes across like an @$$hole in interviews, you have to respect all the great work he's done off the court.

I mean, ok, that's fine. I respect that. Calling him the biggest POS in the world was extreme, yes. I don't like him though, simple as that.

Big Zo
03-18-2015, 09:41 AM
Sure the situations are different.

But Zo is saying they have a 'winning' culture. If he truly believed that, then he would have stuck around, and ironically enough, he ended up going back there to win it. Zo didn't have faith in Riley being able to turn things around. So why should he expect LBJ to think any differently? The Heat had won a weak east four years ina row, but in the finals got out played three times. One time they got lucky with a missed shot on the Spurs end, two missed rebounds, and a made hail mary, otherwise they would have lost (which isn't meant to take anything away from them, because they earned that and put in a lot of work to be in a position where a luck bounce would help them), but let's face it. Last year, the Heat got embarrassed by the Spurs, and the year before there were lucky to get past Indy and the Spurs. The Heat team was not getting any better; Wade's health is a legit question, and with Bosh over 30, the championship window was closing.

In CLE they have a bunch of young guys under 25 and the #1 pick int he draft. It is his home town, longer championship window. What is the question Mourning has.

Mourning left Miami for a better situation.
LBJ left Miami for a better situation.

It's not rocket science.

It wasn't a question about having faith in Riley. The Heat were entering a rebuild mode, and he felt his window was closing fast, due to his condition. Also, keep in mind he didn't have his transplant until after he left Miami. Before he had it, he would only play a limited amount of minutes, and get really fatigued. I remember Tim Hardaway saying he felt like calling a timeout for him (when they were no longer teammates) because he felt bad for him. So yeah, it wasn't until after deciding to have the transplant while in NJ that he started to gain some of his stamina back. I completely understood why he left, and it amazes me how others just don't get it.

ewing
03-18-2015, 09:54 AM
It wasn't a question about having faith in Riley. The Heat were entering a rebuild mode, and he felt his window was closing fast, due to his condition. Also, keep in mind he didn't have his transplant until after he left Miami. Before he had it, he would only play a limited amount of minutes, and get really fatigued. I remember Tim Hardaway saying he felt like calling a timeout for him (when they were no longer teammates) because he felt bad for him. So yeah, it wasn't until after deciding to have the transplant while in NJ that he started to gain some of his stamina back. I completely understood why he left, and it amazes me how others just don't get it.

you mean Zo did not lead the organization and fans to believe if they did everything they could to build around him at that he would not leave, and the organization was not a on a win now path b/c of that promise. Sorry, JJH but comparing a franchise player in his prime leaving a franchise that just got to the NBA finals after acting like he planned on working to build something historic there is not the same as Zo. Not close

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrqXDEPu6v8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrqXDEPu6v8

ewing
03-18-2015, 10:00 AM
Btw, i think Zo deserves to take heat for the way he treated the Nets after they invested more in him then anyone else would and for the way he treated the Raps. Just like Bron deserves heat for the way he left the Heat

RiLoc
03-18-2015, 11:06 AM
There is no way the Heat have Deng if Lebron had stayed.Or Dragic. And possibly Whiteside. (and definitely not the best team of all time)Definitely right about Deng. There simply wasn't room for another major free agent addition.

I've heard other people say, "No way they could've got Dragic if they had LeBron." And I wonder why wouldn't they be able to get Dragic? The percentage match be the same and they still would've had Danny Granger, Norris Cole, Shawne Williams, Justin Hamilton to match with and the 2 future picks. Shawne Williams is the only question mark, but the Heat would've had another low salary player regardless.

Is the issue that people don't think Miami would be willing to plunge deep into Luxury Tax using Dragic's Bird Rights? Or is it because Dragic wouldn't want to come because he might not ball handle as much as he wants? Or is it because people think there would be fit issues adding another ball handler to a ball handle heavy team?

MonroeFAN
03-18-2015, 12:06 PM
^perhaps sense of urgency to pull off a trade to land another max level player when you already had 3?

J_M_B
03-18-2015, 12:48 PM
^perhaps sense of urgency to pull off a trade to land another max level player when you already had 3?

If LeBron returned to Miami then Bosh wouldn't have been a max player. Miami was prepared to offer him a starting salary at 16/17M per and Wade isn't making max either (he's due 15M this season) .. But yea I doubt Dragic has Miami on his list of teams since he'll be in a similar situation with two ball dominant guys ahead of him with Bron/Wade

Dade County
03-18-2015, 12:50 PM
Sure the situations are different.

But Zo is saying they have a 'winning' culture. If he truly believed that, then he would have stuck around, and ironically enough, he ended up going back there to win it. Zo didn't have faith in Riley being able to turn things around.

True.




So why should he expect LBJ to think any differently?

Because of the 4 straight Final trips. Because Lbj first taste of being a champion was with the HEAT organization.

Also, he's so called home boy, Wade... Had to step down so Lbj could be seen as the soul reason why Miami is winning rings. But the truth is, Wade and him could have dominated together; but then the media was ready to throw shade on the achievements, buy saying 2 super stars had to team up just to win.

So since, Lbj took sooo much **** from blind haters/media, Wade had to just say F it, and step down so it looks like there is only one super star on the team.

Wade should have 4rings and another Final's Mvp... I wont forget that.



The Heat had won a weak east four years ina row, but in the finals got out played three times. One time they got lucky with a missed shot on the Spurs end, two missed rebounds, and a made hail mary, otherwise they would have lost (which isn't meant to take anything away from them, because they earned that and put in a lot of work to be in a position where a luck bounce would help them), but let's face it.

No...

If Miami was playing to there full potential they would have beaten Dallas (Lbj following orders), There would not have been a Ray Ray 3pt shoot needed to push into overtime; So thats 3 straight right there (and too me OKCc was a super team lol).



Last year, the Heat got embarrassed by the Spurs, and the year before there were lucky to get past Indy and the Spurs.

All in the name of entertainment... When it came to the Pacers.

Spurs, enjoy your end of career championship title (Wade will be getting one too I hope), you deserve it for putting in all that hard work through out the years.



The Heat team was not getting any better; Wade's health is a legit question, and with Bosh over 30, the championship window was closing.

Pat would of retool... To easy.

East couldn't handle the HEAT anyway. They would have went to like 9 straight Final's.

And would win more then they lose.

And what you are saying is that... Lbj should have ran to another team, instead of wanting for Pat to retool...

Which would have taken one off season (the same off season after right after the Final's)...smh

What a joke.




In CLE they have a bunch of young guys under 25 and the #1 pick int he draft. It is his home town, longer championship window. What is the question Mourning has.

No proof they can build a winner or keep it going.

This is all fake, the league set this up to save face and make things right by the fans. And they also didn't want other star players to make this a trend.

yes I agree that the Cav's team can be good for a long time... But Miami would have been the better team to stay with, because of the front office. Pat Riley wont let the organization crash and burn; he would have made deals and kept on bringing more and more people in.

For goodness sake, Gasol was going to come to Miami... lmao




Mourning left Miami for a better situation.
LBJ left Miami for a better situation.

It's not rocket science.

Miami didn't win a ring yet... It's not the same thing. Zo wanted a ring, if he would have had one already, he would have retired a Miami HEAT back then.

It's not the same thing. Lbj left because of behind the scenes forces, trying to make him go back to the Cav's (1st rd pick after 1st rd pick)

What a joke.

Tony_Starks
03-18-2015, 03:42 PM
To me Riley's words hit a little bit harder. When he said he couldn't imagine Magic, Worthy or Kareem leaving after a Finals loss that said it all right there. The mentality back then was like "OK they got us, let's get back to the Finals and pray that we see them again for that payback."

Some of these new players aren't built like that......

Chronz
03-18-2015, 04:43 PM
So it's ok for zo to leave because he never won to that point, that's what I'm getting. Bron winning made it easier to go back home imo. But clearly there is no right or wrong answer. Bron leaving or staying wasn't based on any single element.

Chronz
03-18-2015, 04:46 PM
To me Riley's words hit a little bit harder. When he said he couldn't imagine Magic, Worthy or Kareem leaving after a Finals loss that said it all right there. The mentality back then was like "OK they got us, let's get back to the Finals and pray that we see them again for that payback."

Some of these new players aren't built like that......
Riley sounds like a hypocrite to me. How does he think he's gotten his rings over the years, it sure as **** wasn't from zero player movement. He got Bron to bounce and then acts out when the mercenary he hired goes back home?

ewing
03-18-2015, 04:49 PM
So it's ok for zo to leave because he never won to that point, that's what I'm getting. Bron winning made it easier to go back home imo. But clearly there is no right or wrong answer. Bron leaving or staying wasn't based on any single element.


Bron publicly promised a dynasty to the Heat's fans and organization and bounced at the first hint of adversity- hint.

Chronz
03-18-2015, 05:35 PM
Bron publicly promised a dynasty to the Heat's fans and organization and bounced at the first hint of adversity- hint.
A fan rally is suppose to be an iron clad contract of some sort. He said alot of stuff that day to hype the crowd up, that's what entertainers do. The very same week in an actual interview setting he spoke more truthfully about the endeavor. I'm not seeing your point. Why would i give a **** about a pep rally? Im not a fan of any 1 team before I'm a fan of the nba

ewing
03-18-2015, 06:03 PM
A fan rally is suppose to be an iron clad contract of some sort. He said alot of stuff that day to hype the crowd up, that's what entertainers do. The very same week in an actual interview setting he spoke more truthfully about the endeavor. I'm not seeing your point. Why would i give a **** about a pep rally? Im not a fan of any 1 team before I'm a fan of the nba

cause it makes him a douche. if you don't think we should expect players to have alliance to anyone but themselves and think it is OK to pretend they do for ticket sales and then sell out the franchise and its fans when they have done everything you would expect of them, i just disagree.

J_M_B
03-18-2015, 06:14 PM
Riley sounds like a hypocrite to me. How does he think he's gotten his rings over the years, it sure as **** wasn't from zero player movement. He got Bron to bounce and then acts out when the mercenary he hired goes back home?

Acts out how? I feel Riley and the entire organization have said all the right things and ultimately have been class acts about it. He's basically saying he was completely blindsided and who wouldn't? He delivered on every promise.

If anything I think Riley's comments could be directed more towards the Cavs front office then LeBron. He probably thinks "why leave an organization with such strong stability for a dysfunctional one?"

bucketss
03-18-2015, 06:16 PM
Dragic/Chalmers
Wade/Deng
LeBron/Deng
Bosh/McRoberts
Whiteside/Birdman

Get everyone to take a slight pay cut to keep Deng and that's the best team of all-time.

cavs are better at almost every position.

Tony_Starks
03-18-2015, 06:25 PM
To me Riley's words hit a little bit harder. When he said he couldn't imagine Magic, Worthy or Kareem leaving after a Finals loss that said it all right there. The mentality back then was like "OK they got us, let's get back to the Finals and pray that we see them again for that payback."

Some of these new players aren't built like that......
Riley sounds like a hypocrite to me. How does he think he's gotten his rings over the years, it sure as **** wasn't from zero player movement. He got Bron to bounce and then acts out when the mercenary he hired goes back home?

Doesn't sound like a hypocrite to me. If I took a player dissatisfied and ringless, told him I'd show him what winning chips are all about, AND came through on it I'd be surprised too if he decided to tuck tail and run after being the favorite every game he played for my franchise....

Ty Fast
03-18-2015, 08:34 PM
I am a die hard heat fan but i even understand why lbj left. I hope he dosnt win anything with the cavs but i do understand why he went there.

WaDe03
03-19-2015, 12:50 AM
cavs are better at almost every position.

No lol

TylerSL
03-19-2015, 03:26 AM
Situation is not nearly as hypocritical as you think. While Mourning did leave at one point, he didn't have anything close to what Lebron had in Miami. Lebron had Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh willing to accept whatever deal was necessary to keep him and add talent necessary to win moving forward; and if reports are true, Pau Gasol was going to join Miami before Lebron told him he wasn't coming back. Remember, we got McRoberts before Lebron announced he was leaving, but after he allegedly told Gasol he was not returning. I also bet we'd see Ray Allen in a Heat uniform again. Imagine a lineup of Wade/Allen/Lebron/Bosh/Gasol for Miami. Even with Bosh's blood clots a "Big 3" of Lebron/Wade/Gasol would look really good right now. Maybe we still give Whiteside a chance, Michael Beasley too, who knows? It is impossible to know for sure, but the roster probably would have been close to

Chalmers/Cole/Napier
Wade/Allen
Lebron/possibly Beasley
Bosh/Haslem
Gasol/Birdman/possibly Whiteside

I'm not saying I 100% agree with what Zo is saying, I mean the organization has moved on and acquired really good talent that we would not have had Lebron stayed (Dragic/Deng/McRoberts/Whiteside?/Beasley?), but it's not like Zo left anything close to that. So not really hypocritical IMHO considering he questioned why Lebron would leave that kind of a team rather than just the Miami Heat. You mentioned how Zo walked out of the same "winning culture" he was knocking Lebron for leaving, but they just are not the same kind of winning culture.

Zo did walk, but after 2 bad years and the 90's teams he played for were gone and Miami was bringing in a whole new team spearheaded by a young core of rookie Dwyane Wade, Lamar Odom, and Caron Butler. Zo was past his prime (34 years old) and wanted to win, not continue through a rebuild. If Zo walked away when he was in his prime when he had Tim Hardaway, Jamall Mashburn, Dan Majerle, and PJ Brown when they were competing for championships I would agree, but he didn't. Lebron left Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, and potentially Pau Gasol as well. And o by the way, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, and Pau Gasol are all far better than any of the players Zo had in his day save Hardaway. Again, not saying I completely agree with him, but situations were too different to be hypocritical.

WaDe03
03-19-2015, 12:39 PM
We would still have Dragic guys. The Heat said they've had Dragic on their minds for years but couldn't find the right trade to make for him. The situation he was in this year made him available to us. I think he would've been the perfect point guard to but next to Wade and LeBron.

Bring The Heat
03-19-2015, 12:51 PM
I understand Riley's point and what he is trying to say... With that being said I been a die hard heat fan since 94' and I understand why LeBron left.. Had it been any other team I would've criticized him greatly... He feels bad he left Cleveland without giving their fans what they deserve which is a ring, he feels like if there is any chance it would be now still in his prime and with good young potential. Later on down the line it will be too late..

Bring The Heat
03-19-2015, 12:53 PM
I understand Riley's point and what he is trying to say... With that being said I been a die hard heat fan since 94' and I understand why LeBron left.. Had it been any other team I would've criticized him greatly... He feels bad he left Cleveland without giving their fans what they deserve which is a ring, he feels like if there is any chance it would be now still in his prime and with good young potential. Later on down the line if he tried to come back it would probably be too late... So many heat fans I know are still bitter and hate him which is stupid as hell.. I miss seeing him in a heat uniform but can't hate if he wants to win one for his hometown.

Big Zo
03-19-2015, 01:09 PM
I understand Riley's point and what he is trying to say... With that being said I been a die hard heat fan since 94' and I understand why LeBron left.. Had it been any other team I would've criticized him greatly... He feels bad he left Cleveland without giving their fans what they deserve which is a ring, he feels like if there is any chance it would be now still in his prime and with good young potential. Later on down the line if he tried to come back it would probably be too late... So many heat fans I know are still bitter and hate him which is stupid as hell.. I miss seeing him in a heat uniform but can't hate if he wants to win one for his hometown.

He saw an opportunity to join a talented young roster. If Wade and Bosh were still in their primes, I highly doubt he has this sudden change of heart, and goes back to the city that he "loves" (that cursed the day he was born for 4 years) and tries to win there.

Schulte212
03-19-2015, 01:23 PM
It is amazing to me how so many heat fans (with a few exceptions) sound just like Cavs fans circa 2010. Complete and utter role reversal.

Big Zo
03-19-2015, 01:28 PM
It is amazing to me how so many heat fans (with a few exceptions) sound just like Cavs fans circa 2010. Complete and utter role reversal.

I don't hate the guy, I didn't BBQ his jersey when he left, and i'm not cursing the day he was born simply because he switched teams. However, a blind monkey can see that he went back to Cleveland because they were younger, and provided him an opportunity to keep winning. He doesn't give a damn about that city.

TheIlladelph16
03-19-2015, 01:32 PM
It is amazing to me how so many heat fans (with a few exceptions) sound just like Cavs fans circa 2010. Complete and utter role reversal.

Yeah some extreme "ex gf syndrome" going on with Heat fans. I've seen one single fan in here make a reasonable comment about Lebron's time in Miami and him subsequently leaving, the rest are coming off as the spiteful. You'd think that four straight Finals appearances, two rings and two MVPs was Lebron's way of slapping them across the ace.

Many fans, including myself, would kill for something like to happen to their team. I'd f*cking drive Lebron to the airport myself if he decided to leave the 76ers after that run.

Ty Fast
03-19-2015, 02:18 PM
cavs are better at almost every position.

Cavs don't have pat riley :-)

HeatFan
03-19-2015, 08:27 PM
I like Zo and Pat Riley but people should just learn to let go. ******* him if he wanted to leave, not reminisce.

cmellofan15
03-19-2015, 09:00 PM
Cavs don't have pat riley :-)

Cavs didn't need Pat Riley to build a better team than the Heat.

WITZ
03-19-2015, 09:29 PM
Cavs don't have pat riley :-)

What good that did them last offseason...Granger & McRoberts :laugh2:

WaDe03
03-19-2015, 10:17 PM
What good that did them last offseason...Granger & McRoberts :laugh2:

What about Dragic and Whiteside? :laugh2:

cmellofan15
03-19-2015, 10:51 PM
I don't know about you but I'd take lebron over all four of those players. Decent moves, but they're still a sub .500 team for the first time in a while.

WaDe03
03-20-2015, 12:38 AM
I don't know about you but I'd take lebron over all four of those players. Decent moves, but they're still a sub .500 team for the first time in a while.

Forgot about Deng too. Injuries have killed the season that's why were sub .500. With everyone back next year were all around better than the teams of the big 3 era but well just have to wait and see what happens.

FlashBolt
03-20-2015, 01:48 AM
Miami's top managers are fcking disrespectful and need to stop acting like a bunch of crybabies. Not even Wade or Bosh are complaining like they are. The man won two rings for you guys and made your city relevant in terms of basketball. Let's face it.. Miami was clearly LeBron's. I get that they were professional when he was there and that they also helped LeBron grow but it's pretty pathetic that they take cheap shots. Financially and sustainability, Cavs were the best choice. LeBron was never the highest paid player on any team he had played in until this season. Miami should have went to Bosh/Wade and asked for them to take huge paycuts... It's pathetic they had the audacity to try and make James take one when he is the sole reason they were favorites year in and year out.

Big Zo
03-20-2015, 07:22 AM
Miami's top managers are fcking disrespectful and need to stop acting like a bunch of crybabies. Not even Wade or Bosh are complaining like they are. The man won two rings for you guys and made your city relevant in terms of basketball. Let's face it.. Miami was clearly LeBron's. I get that they were professional when he was there and that they also helped LeBron grow but it's pretty pathetic that they take cheap shots. Financially and sustainability, Cavs were the best choice. LeBron was never the highest paid player on any team he had played in until this season. Miami should have went to Bosh/Wade and asked for them to take huge paycuts... It's pathetic they had the audacity to try and make James take one when he is the sole reason they were favorites year in and year out.

Get over yourself, dude. And Wade & Bosh both did opt out of their contracts. They were willing to take less money had he stayed. Wade ended up getting screwed, while Bosh hit the lottery.

RB#20
03-20-2015, 08:42 AM
He makes those guys from ISIS look like puppies.

I heard that Alonzo Mourning actually KILLS puppies and framed Michael Vick.

RB#20
03-20-2015, 08:46 AM
I understand Riley's point and what he is trying to say... With that being said I been a die hard heat fan since 94' and I understand why LeBron left.. Had it been any other team I would've criticized him greatly... He feels bad he left Cleveland without giving their fans what they deserve which is a ring, he feels like if there is any chance it would be now still in his prime and with good young potential. Later on down the line it will be too late..

I agree with everything you said here...

RB#20
03-20-2015, 08:47 AM
I understand Riley's point and what he is trying to say... With that being said I been a die hard heat fan since 94' and I understand why LeBron left.. Had it been any other team I would've criticized him greatly... He feels bad he left Cleveland without giving their fans what they deserve which is a ring, he feels like if there is any chance it would be now still in his prime and with good young potential. Later on down the line if he tried to come back it would probably be too late... So many heat fans I know are still bitter and hate him which is stupid as hell.. I miss seeing him in a heat uniform but can't hate if he wants to win one for his hometown.

This is where you lost me...

RB#20
03-20-2015, 08:48 AM
Btw, i think Zo deserves to take heat for the way he treated the Nets after they invested more in him then anyone else would and for the way he treated the Raps. Just like Bron deserves heat for the way he left the Heat

Although this is 100% true, I also think it's 100% true that the Heat deserve the heat for being the Heat.

RB#20
03-20-2015, 08:59 AM
The best team of all time?

Really...

Absolutely. You can form the following: "Deng that Birdman's Whiteside! It's Dragic how you have to Wade out these LeBron decisions! I lose my McRoberts over this and want to Bosh my Chalmers in!" Word play trumps talent. GOAT.

PowerHouse
03-22-2015, 09:02 PM
Absolutely. You can form the following: "Deng that Birdman's Whiteside! It's Dragic how you have to Wade out these LeBron decisions! I lose my McRoberts over this and want to Bosh my Chalmers in!" Word play trumps talent. GOAT.

http://www.memecreator.org/static/images/memes/353562.jpg

prodigy
03-23-2015, 10:06 AM
Dragic/Chalmers
Wade/Deng
LeBron/Deng
Bosh/McRoberts
Whiteside/Birdman

Get everyone to take a slight pay cut to keep Deng and that's the best team of all-time.

1. Deng would not be there.
2. Bosh is out for season and maybe longer with serious health issues.
3. Dragic may not even be there if Lebron is.
4. Nobody is taking a pay cut. If Lebron wont do it with Cleveland he sure in the heck wont with heat. Bosh took more money to stay with heat lol and Wade got the max also for some reason. Dragic wants a huge pay day.
5. McRoberts sucks.

archdevil84
03-23-2015, 10:30 AM
I would have loved lebron to stay some more years in miami. They would be going to the finals again thats for sure. And miami with lebron and without deng could stil beat GS. even more if whiteside would join and performed. Rockets and blazers same story. Only memphis (and ofcourse SA) would pose a real threat from the west. Throw in OKC as un underdog

prodigy
03-23-2015, 10:55 AM
Miami's top managers are fcking disrespectful and need to stop acting like a bunch of crybabies. Not even Wade or Bosh are complaining like they are. The man won two rings for you guys and made your city relevant in terms of basketball. Let's face it.. Miami was clearly LeBron's. I get that they were professional when he was there and that they also helped LeBron grow but it's pretty pathetic that they take cheap shots. Financially and sustainability, Cavs were the best choice. LeBron was never the highest paid player on any team he had played in until this season. Miami should have went to Bosh/Wade and asked for them to take huge paycuts... It's pathetic they had the audacity to try and make James take one when he is the sole reason they were favorites year in and year out.

this

J_M_B
03-23-2015, 12:47 PM
1. Deng would not be there.
2. Bosh is out for season and maybe longer with serious health issues.
3. Dragic may not even be there if Lebron is.
4. Nobody is taking a pay cut. If Lebron wont do it with Cleveland he sure in the heck wont with heat. Bosh took more money to stay with heat lol and Wade got the max also for some reason. Dragic wants a huge pay day.
5. McRoberts sucks.

Check your facts kid

First you should've just ignored the poster since his post was just ****ing ridiculous

2. Bosh has been cleared to return to full basketball activities by Aug/Sept and will be ready for next season
3. Bosh already had a deal below his market value. It was only after LeBron left that Riley shoved max dollars in his face to stay.
4. Wade doesn't have a max deal. He took a 5M pay cut(he's making 15M this year) to help sign Deng
5. You obviously didn't watch many Charlotte games last year. McRoberts was a huge part of their offense with his shooting/passing .. actually would be a really nice complement to LeBron in CLE lol

WaDe03
03-23-2015, 01:32 PM
1. Deng would not be there.
2. Bosh is out for season and maybe longer with serious health issues.
3. Dragic may not even be there if Lebron is.
4. Nobody is taking a pay cut. If Lebron wont do it with Cleveland he sure in the heck wont with heat. Bosh took more money to stay with heat lol and Wade got the max also for some reason. Dragic wants a huge pay day.
5. McRoberts sucks.

1. Wade and Bosh we're going to take pay cuts to add another player. Pau was rumored to come if LeBron stayed if not they would've offered Deng. Pau would be better though.

2. Bosh will be back next year they've already came out and said it.

3. We've had our eyes on Dragic for years Riley said. He wanted out of Phoenix and to come to Miami so we got it done without giving up any important players. We would've still done it the need for a PG was obvious.

4. I think you just threw out random stuff without even knowing. Read what I put in part 1. Wades killing this year and if anyone deserved it on our team it's him.

5. McRoberts is actually very good idk where you got that. Can score stretch the floor and is one of the best passing big man.

WaDe03
03-23-2015, 01:39 PM
Check your facts kid

First you should've just ignored the poster since his post was just ****ing ridiculous

2. Bosh has been cleared to return to full basketball activities by Aug/Sept and will be ready for next season
3. Bosh already had a deal below his market value. It was only after LeBron left that Riley shoved max dollars in his face to stay.
4. Wade doesn't have a max deal. He took a 5M pay cut(he's making 15M this year) to help sign Deng
5. You obviously didn't watch many Charlotte games last year. McRoberts was a huge part of their offense with his shooting/passing .. actually would be a really nice complement to LeBron in CLE lol

Dragic- one of the top PGs
Wade-one of the best SGs
LeBron- best player in the world
Bosh- one of the top PFs
Whiteside- up and coming center. Already in the top 10 Forsure.
Deng- good 2-way player. Can score good and defend a teams best player.
McRoberts- stretch 4 top 3 passing big man.
Chalmers- veteran with championship experience. Had some big finals games as a starter.
Birdman- high energy guy coming off the bench.
Beasley- probably 9th or 10th man but can score in bunches

I don't think anything about what I said was ****ing ridiculous. We went 66-16 with just Wade LeBron and Bosh in 2013.

cmellofan15
03-23-2015, 02:23 PM
Dragic- one of the top PGs
Wade-one of the best SGs
LeBron- best player in the world
Bosh- one of the top PFs
Whiteside- up and coming center. Already in the top 10 Forsure.
Deng- good 2-way player. Can score good and defend a teams best player.
McRoberts- stretch 4 top 3 passing big man.
Chalmers- veteran with championship experience. Had some big finals games as a starter.
Birdman- high energy guy coming off the bench.
Beasley- probably 9th or 10th man but can score in bunches

I don't think anything about what I said was ****ing ridiculous. We went 66-16 with just Wade LeBron and Bosh in 2013.

Kyrie Irving top 4 point guard- 22 yrs old
Kevin Love top 3 pf- 26 years old

I don't really think there's anything else that needs to be said.

but man you are really overselling miami's run of the mill role players lol

WaDe03
03-23-2015, 04:14 PM
Kyrie Irving top 4 point guard- 22 yrs old
Kevin Love top 3 pf- 26 years old

I don't really think there's anything else that needs to be said.

but man you are really overselling miami's run of the mill role players lol

Take LeBron off the Cavs and they don't make the playoffs for sure. Have them play us without LeBron and we blow them out. Were 2-0 against them when Wade plays. The Cavs this year with LeBron are nowhere near what the Heat would be with LeBron. I don't really think there's anything else that needs to be said.

Irving top 4 PG and Love top 4 PF is pretty laughable though.

J_M_B
03-23-2015, 04:55 PM
Dragic- one of the top PGs
Wade-one of the best SGs
LeBron- best player in the world
Bosh- one of the top PFs
Whiteside- up and coming center. Already in the top 10 Forsure.
Deng- good 2-way player. Can score good and defend a teams best player.
McRoberts- stretch 4 top 3 passing big man.
Chalmers- veteran with championship experience. Had some big finals games as a starter.
Birdman- high energy guy coming off the bench.
Beasley- probably 9th or 10th man but can score in bunches

I don't think anything about what I said was ****ing ridiculous. We went 66-16 with just Wade LeBron and Bosh in 2013.

I'm a Heat fan bro I don't need a run down of the roster .. even with that fantasy team it doesn't come close to the best team of all time lmao

You think Dragic would want be the third ball handler behind LeBron/Wade? It's the same problem he had in PHX. Deng isn't taking the MLE either

WaDe03
03-23-2015, 05:20 PM
I'm a Heat fan bro I don't need a run down of the roster .. even with that fantasy team it doesn't come close to the best team of all time lmao

You think Dragic would want be the third ball handler behind LeBron/Wade? It's the same problem he had in PHX. Deng isn't taking the MLE either

I know you are and it would be pretty close we went to 4 straight finals with a team not close as good as that one.

Wade and Bosh would've taken pay cuts and we would've either got Pau or Deng without using the MLE.

Doesn't matter anyways since it can't happen that's just my opinion. I like what were building right now anyways and curious to see who we get with the MLE this summer. Hoping for a backup 2/3.

WITZ
03-23-2015, 05:28 PM
I know you are and it would be pretty close we went to 4 straight finals with a team not close as good as that one.

Wade and Bosh would've taken pay cuts and we would've either got Pau or Deng without using the MLE.

Doesn't matter anyways since it can't happen that's just my opinion. I like what were building right now anyways and curious to see who we get with the MLE this summer. Hoping for a backup 2/3.

If thats true why didn't that happen 1st to show Lebron they were improving the roster instead of signing Granger & McRoberts :laugh2:

WaDe03
03-23-2015, 06:14 PM
If thats true why didn't that happen 1st to show Lebron they were improving the roster instead of signing Granger & McRoberts :laugh2:

Because they were waiting to see what Le***** was doing. Pau wanted LeBron to commit before he came and Bosh wasn't sure if he would stay or not. :laugh2:

cmellofan15
03-23-2015, 06:20 PM
Take LeBron off the Cavs and they don't make the playoffs for sure. Have them play us without LeBron and we blow them out. Were 2-0 against them when Wade plays. The Cavs this year with LeBron are nowhere near what the Heat would be with LeBron. I don't really think there's anything else that needs to be said.

Irving top 4 PG and Love top 4 PF is pretty laughable though.

irving and love top 4 laughable? no, comparing teams by using head to head matchups is laughable. I don't care if the Heat beat the Cavs four times this year, they've only beaten like 5 teams that are above .500 and they're a sub .500 team themselves.

i'm not one for hypotheticals so lets just cut all of the 'Cavs this year with LeBron are nowhere near what the Heat would be with LeBron' and the 'LeBron off the Cavs and they don't make the playoffs for sure'. there's no way you could ever prove that, especially with all of the moves miami had to make after he left so they could still nab an almost .500 record, so how about you make a claim based off some kind of actual evidence.

WaDe03
03-23-2015, 07:21 PM
irving and love top 4 laughable? no, comparing teams by using head to head matchups is laughable. I don't care if the Heat beat the Cavs four times this year, they've only beaten like 5 teams that are above .500 and they're a sub .500 team themselves.

i'm not one for hypotheticals so lets just cut all of the 'Cavs this year with LeBron are nowhere near what the Heat would be with LeBron' and the 'LeBron off the Cavs and they don't make the playoffs for sure'. there's no way you could ever prove that, especially with all of the moves miami had to make after he left so they could still nab an almost .500 record, so how about you make a claim based off some kind of actual evidence.

The evidence being there is overall more talent on the Heat than the Cavs without LeBron. Love looks like he doesn't even want to be there.

And yea were sub .500 but were still in the race for the 6 seed which is pretty good considering how many injuries we've had this year. It's been crazy. You're lying to yourself if you don't think this Heat team can be something special once Bosh and McRoberts get back plus whoever we get with the MLE this summer. Well be full of talent that plays good together. Having LeBron would've taken it to an all-time level but as I already said it doesn't really matter since he's not here anymore and I like our team right now.

prodigy
03-24-2015, 09:06 AM
Check your facts kid

First you should've just ignored the poster since his post was just ****ing ridiculous

2. Bosh has been cleared to return to full basketball activities by Aug/Sept and will be ready for next season
3. Bosh already had a deal below his market value. It was only after LeBron left that Riley shoved max dollars in his face to stay.
4. Wade doesn't have a max deal. He took a 5M pay cut(he's making 15M this year) to help sign Deng
5. You obviously didn't watch many Charlotte games last year. McRoberts was a huge part of their offense with his shooting/passing .. actually would be a really nice complement to LeBron in CLE lol

2. serious health issues are just that, serious. I don't know much about what is wrong with him, is this something that will have lingering effects, can it come back? etc... I don't care about basketball for him. I hope he's healthy for his family.

3. I thought this was about if Lebron came back? so bosh would still have his max.

4. I didn't know wade took a pay cut that's my bad. 5mill isn't much though.

5. No I didn't watch many char games... lol. McRoberts sucks

prodigy
03-24-2015, 09:11 AM
Take LeBron off the Cavs and they don't make the playoffs for sure. Have them play us without LeBron and we blow them out. Were 2-0 against them when Wade plays. The Cavs this year with LeBron are nowhere near what the Heat would be with LeBron. I don't really think there's anything else that needs to be said.

Irving top 4 PG and Love top 4 PF is pretty laughable though.

wait... Irvings not a top 4 PG?

prodigy
03-24-2015, 09:18 AM
double

WaDe03
03-24-2015, 12:51 PM
2. serious health issues are just that, serious. I don't know much about what is wrong with him, is this something that will have lingering effects, can it come back? etc... I don't care about basketball for him. I hope he's healthy for his family.

3. I thought this was about if Lebron came back? so bosh would still have his max.

4. I didn't know wade took a pay cut that's my bad. 5mill isn't much though.

5. No I didn't watch many char games... lol. McRoberts sucks

No not if he came back, it's if he would've stayed.

WaDe03
03-24-2015, 12:54 PM
wait... Irvings not a top 4 PG?

I'm taking Curry, Westbrook, Paul, Wall, Lowry, and Lillard over him right now. He'll be up there soon though.

prodigy
03-25-2015, 11:51 AM
Thing I love about Irving is he's pretty much an all around player and scorer. Curry is a 3pt shooter and wall is a driver. Irving is great at both. Also has best handles in the NBA. Irving is a score first PG we gotta remember. So honestly its what u are looking for. If u want a pass first PG then Irving wont be in ur top 4. But common now, if u want a complete scorer Irving is prob the best in the NBA at PG.

Irvings defense has also been very very good.

curry
westbrook
Irving
paul

would be mine.

prodigy
03-25-2015, 11:52 AM
I'm taking Curry, Westbrook, Paul, Wall, Lowry, and Lillard over him right now. He'll be up there soon though.

why is wall and lowry above irving?

Chronz
03-25-2015, 12:17 PM
cause it makes him a douche. if you don't think we should expect players to have alliance to anyone but themselves and think it is OK to pretend they do for ticket sales and then sell out the franchise and its fans when they have done everything you would expect of them, i just disagree.
Thats certainly one way to look at it, it doesn't make him a douche in my book because I dont put any sort of emphasis on a hype concert. Also, Im pretty sure waiving his best friend to save money doesn't sound like something Bron would endorse.

And lets not forget his promise to Cleveland, he truly cares about bringing them a title before his career is done, why shouldn't the man try? Miami was part of his growth, players evolve and change, it doesn't make them douches, lest you tell me you've never had a change of plans/ideals. I dont know about you, but I've made a **** load of idiotic decisions in my youth.


Doesn't sound like a hypocrite to me. If I took a player dissatisfied and ringless, told him I'd show him what winning chips are all about, AND came through on it I'd be surprised too if he decided to tuck tail and run after being the favorite every game he played for my franchise....

Why? Bron has been favored since his Cleveland days and we all know what a bunch of rag tag teammates those guys were. Why should that hold any sway (not sure if thats an expression or not)?

He gave Miami championship caliber basketball and its not like they were 100 with him, they waived his favorite teammate to save the owner a few million, thats not exactly winning at any cost. Then they expected him to do all the heavy lifting when he joined Miami for stability, yet there he was, not even knowing till the last hour if his "sidekick" would even be able to suit up. They saved Wade all season for the playoffs, yet when the time came for Wade to be fresh, he was shut down and the team struggled without Bron.

Riley would be a fool to ignore the load Bron has carried for this team. Im sure it was a tough decision for Bron but I dont see why Riley should be surprised considering he got him by taking him away from another team in the first place. A team he desperately wants to see win.



Acts out how? I feel Riley and the entire organization have said all the right things and ultimately have been class acts about it. He's basically saying he was completely blindsided and who wouldn't? He delivered on every promise.
Doubtful and you're only blindsided if your ignorant to how your decisions have influenced the outcome. Looking back, Riley had his fingerprints on Bron leaving just as much as Cleveland did IMO.


If anything I think Riley's comments could be directed more towards the Cavs front office then LeBron. He probably thinks "why leave an organization with such strong stability for a dysfunctional one?"
Maybe Bron thinks the way Jerry West used to, that culture is something you can change depending on the team as a whole. Maybe that stable organization isn't as impressive as it looks.

prodigy
03-25-2015, 03:11 PM
Lebron did not go to Miami because of Riley. Stop that crap now. Riley had nothing to do with LeBron coming or leaving. Clearly Lebron, wade and Bosh made the decision to play with each other. Heat just benefited from it.

WaDe03
03-26-2015, 01:49 AM
Thing I love about Irving is he's pretty much an all around player and scorer. Curry is a 3pt shooter and wall is a driver. Irving is great at both. Also has best handles in the NBA. Irving is a score first PG we gotta remember. So honestly its what u are looking for. If u want a pass first PG then Irving wont be in ur top 4. But common now, if u want a complete scorer Irving is prob the best in the NBA at PG.

Irvings defense has also been very very good.

curry
westbrook
Irving
paul

would be mine.

Paul Curry and Westbrook are on a completely different level than Irving. Westbrook is the best scorer and Curry is way more than a 3 point shooter.

prodigy
03-28-2015, 10:37 AM
Paul Curry and Westbrook are on a completely different level than Irving. Westbrook is the best scorer and Curry is way more than a 3 point shooter.

They are def NOT on a different level. They are number one options on their teams and much older then Kyrie. I do believe both are better which is why I have them ahead of him.

and ehhh, I seen prob 25 curry games this season and he's mostly a shooter. He can drive and finish very well. but he'd rather shoot 3's that cannot be argued. He's great at it though.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
03-28-2015, 11:52 AM
Man I remember when Zo played for the Hornets and they had him and Grandma Johnson and Bogues and Curry. Then Zo was traded for Rice.

WaDe03
03-28-2015, 12:23 PM
They are def NOT on a different level. They are number one options on their teams and much older then Kyrie. I do believe both are better which is why I have them ahead of him.

and ehhh, I seen prob 25 curry games this season and he's mostly a shooter. He can drive and finish very well. but he'd rather shoot 3's that cannot be argued. He's great at it though.

All 3 of them are FOR SURE on a different level than Kyrie. It's really not even debatable. Who cares how old he is? Were talking about right now and he is not on their level. If he was he would've got his team to the playoffs in the East at least once before LeBron came.

As for Curry of course he likes to shoot 3s he's probably going to be the best shooter ever but you're blind if you say that's all he does. He's a complete player, he does everything.

prodigy
03-28-2015, 01:55 PM
All 3 of them are FOR SURE on a different level than Kyrie. It's really not even debatable. Who cares how old he is? Were talking about right now and he is not on their level. If he was he would've got his team to the playoffs in the East at least once before LeBron came.

As for Curry of course he likes to shoot 3s he's probably going to be the best shooter ever but you're blind if you say that's all he does. He's a complete player, he does everything.

Different levels is like OJ mayo to Lebron. If u really think a 22 year old kid whos gotten better and better every year and has the two highest point totals this season is not even on the same playing ''court'' then u got personal issues against Kyrie. Like I said no question right now Curry and Westbrook are better. But lets get real just look at the numbers.

Westbrook is a beast but he's also a Jacker. shoots 21 times a game and makes 42% and 34% from 3. I don't need to tell u both Curry and Irving are much better. Curry avg 1 more point then Irving and shoots 48% from the field to Irvings 46%.

not sure how they are on different levels. but its whatever. guess if u hate someone enough u can believe anything. Jarrett Jack and Westbrook are on different levels.

WaDe03
03-28-2015, 02:11 PM
Different levels is like OJ mayo to Lebron. If u really think a 22 year old kid whos gotten better and better every year and has the two highest point totals this season is not even on the same playing ''court'' then u got personal issues against Kyrie. Like I said no question right now Curry and Westbrook are better. But lets get real just look at the numbers.

Westbrook is a beast but he's also a Jacker. shoots 21 times a game and makes 42% and 34% from 3. I don't need to tell u both Curry and Irving are much better. Curry avg 1 more point then Irving and shoots 48% from the field to Irvings 46%.

not sure how they are on different levels. but its whatever. guess if u hate someone enough u can believe anything. Jarrett Jack and Westbrook are on different levels.

Don't hate Kyrie and idk why you keep leaving Chris Paul out. Kyrie is not better than him. These 3 are without debate better than Kyrie that's how they are on different levels. Swap one of those 3 with Kyrie and the Cavs are much better and once again those 3 could lead a team in the east to the playoffs, Kyrie couldn't. That's how they're on different levels. If you legit think he's better than any one of them 3 you're being a homer for sure.

prodigy
03-31-2015, 09:23 AM
Don't hate Kyrie and idk why you keep leaving Chris Paul out. Kyrie is not better than him. These 3 are without debate better than Kyrie that's how they are on different levels. Swap one of those 3 with Kyrie and the Cavs are much better and once again those 3 could lead a team in the east to the playoffs, Kyrie couldn't. That's how they're on different levels. If you legit think he's better than any one of them 3 you're being a homer for sure.

Kyrie is a better offensive player then Paul. Paul is a better passer. That's why I said it depends on what u want from ur PG. Paul is also ball dominate, he needs the ball to be successful. Lebron is very ball dominate here so im not sure how they would play together. Irving is great off the ball and has single handly won games for the cavs this season most recently the spurs game. No way in heck could paul do that. So I disagree that paul would make the Cavs better then Irving could. But we will never know.

When did I say he was better then Curry and westbrook. go ahead tell me ill wait kid. otherwise lets not lie. That's stupid.

WaDe03
03-31-2015, 11:36 AM
Kyrie is a better offensive player then Paul. Paul is a better passer. That's why I said it depends on what u want from ur PG. Paul is also ball dominate, he needs the ball to be successful. Lebron is very ball dominate here so im not sure how they would play together. Irving is great off the ball and has single handly won games for the cavs this season most recently the spurs game. No way in heck could paul do that. So I disagree that paul would make the Cavs better then Irving could. But we will never know.

When did I say he was better then Curry and westbrook. go ahead tell me ill wait kid. otherwise lets not lie. That's stupid.

Any one of those 3 as in you ranked him above Paul, kid. It's very stupid to rank him above any of them and Paul has played great especially when Blake went down. He's not better than any one of those 3 or Wall or Lillard kid. I'm probably leaving someone out too. I will say Kyrie has a bright future it looks like but to put him above Paul and on the same level as Westbrook and Curry is just crazy even for a kid.

Chronz
03-31-2015, 11:39 AM
Kyrie is a better offensive player then Paul. Paul is a better passer. That's why I said it depends on what u want from ur PG. Paul is also ball dominate, he needs the ball to be successful. Lebron is very ball dominate here so im not sure how they would play together. Irving is great off the ball and has single handly won games for the cavs this season most recently the spurs game. No way in heck could paul do that. So I disagree that paul would make the Cavs better then Irving could. But we will never know.

When did I say he was better then Curry and westbrook. go ahead tell me ill wait kid. otherwise lets not lie. That's stupid.

How is Kyrie a better offensive player when hes never led elite offenses and has never been as productive? What exactly has he proven, the ability to chuck? CP3 can lose his best sidekick (Mr Blake Griffin), face off against the best defensive team in a heated playoff series, and STILL post higher offensive marks than Kyrie has in a regular season.

You can say Kyrie is a better SCORER, that distinction is so irrelevant I wouldn't care to argue against it, but when you talk about OFFENSIVE abilities, things like vision and ball protection come into play. Thats where CP3 eviscerates him.

I cant envision a scenario where CP3 doesn't make the Cavs better but that would mostly be from his defensive superiority.

WaDe03
03-31-2015, 11:59 AM
How is Kyrie a better offensive player when hes never led elite offenses and has never been as productive? What exactly has he proven, the ability to chuck? CP3 can lose his best sidekick (Mr Blake Griffin), face off against the best defensive team in a heated playoff series, and STILL post higher offensive marks than Kyrie has in a regular season.

You can say Kyrie is a better SCORER, that distinction is so irrelevant I wouldn't care to argue against it, but when you talk about OFFENSIVE abilities, things like vision and ball protection come into play. Thats where CP3 eviscerates him.

I cant envision a scenario where CP3 doesn't make the Cavs better but that would mostly be from his defensive superiority.

Exactly, Kyrie is good but Paul is by far the better all around player. Kyrie is good but he's definitely been one of the more overrated players over the past couple years and this shows it.

prodigy
03-31-2015, 12:23 PM
How is Kyrie a better offensive player when hes never led elite offenses and has never been as productive? What exactly has he proven, the ability to chuck? CP3 can lose his best sidekick (Mr Blake Griffin), face off against the best defensive team in a heated playoff series, and STILL post higher offensive marks than Kyrie has in a regular season.

You can say Kyrie is a better SCORER, that distinction is so irrelevant I wouldn't care to argue against it, but when you talk about OFFENSIVE abilities, things like vision and ball protection come into play. Thats where CP3 eviscerates him.

I cant envision a scenario where CP3 doesn't make the Cavs better but that would mostly be from his defensive superiority.

1. Because Irving never had real good players around him. He's had Thompson and knuckle head Waiters duhh. lol.

2. Chuck? He always shoots high Percentages so his shot selection isn't horrible. Once again he's a score first PG, If u don't like that then Yes Paul is the PG for you.

3. paul def has better passing vision, once again if a pass first PG if what u want Paul is ur man. Please listen guys im done repeating myself. But I take Irvings driving ability, ball handling, 3pt shooting over Paul any day.

4. Paul is for sure a better defender. But Irving has done a complete 360 and is very respectable now. Lebron I believe is a big part in that. Also having a legit center helps. Chris Paul knows what im talking about Irving shut him down both games this season head to head.

prodigy
03-31-2015, 12:37 PM
Also Lebron and Paul both demand the ball. Its pretty easy to envision the problem there. Irving and Lebron had big problems early on. But Irvings ability to play with and without the ball is why they are playing so great right now. I'm not saying Paul wont be able to play without the ball for most the game, he might be able too. I just don't think so.

prodigy
03-31-2015, 12:54 PM
Also Irving just turned 23. So if I have to pick one I'm taking Irving. Not just because he's really good now, but he's gonna get even better.

Chronz
03-31-2015, 01:07 PM
1. Because Irving never had real good players around him. He's had Thompson and knuckle head Waiters duhh. lol.
It was a combination question tho. Hes never led a team AND hes not as productive individually. You're gonna blame all that on his teammates? Im sorry but in comparison vs CP3, thats not gonna cut it. You take a teammate from CP3 away, he steps his game up both as a scorer AND a passer. I know he had some talent issues, but how does that convince people of ur claims when those other guys dont need to rely on that ****** excuse.



2. Chuck? He always shoots high Percentages so his shot selection isn't horrible. Once again he's a score first PG, If u don't like that then Yes Paul is the PG for you.

(Shot selection not being horrible is a compliment these days?)
Heres the thing tho, I dont have a bias against him because hes more of a scoring PG, I happen to think RWB is either the best or 2nd best PG in the league and hes primarily individual oriented. I have a bias against Irving because your excuses dont exonerate him. Hes accomplished nothing in this kind of comparison. Those truly elite players dont need the excuses you give, they have actual, TANGIBLE evidence supporting their greatness.

Its not about which player I like or dont like, when discussing the games best, I dont care if hes a score first or pass first guy, Ill take the superior player and build around him. CP3 is that guy, the reason its an open and shut case is precisely because of his dominance in both individual AND team aspects.



3. paul def has better passing vision, once again if a pass first PG if what u want Paul is ur man. Please listen guys im done repeating myself. But I take Irvings driving ability, ball handling, 3pt shooting over Paul any day.
That ball handling leads to inferior ball protection so why would I care? CP3 has great handles himself, only he doesn't rely on that as heavily to lead his teams offense. I honestly dont know why you're repeating yourself when the original argument was flawed to begin with. Passing still matters even with SCORING PG's.

Look Im sure you want to completely ignore the actual job of ANY primary ball handler(not just a PG), which is facilitation, and chalk it up to them simply being a "scoring PG", but that doesn't change the very LARGE influence that advantage has for his TEAMS OFFENSE. Hell just today, I read that Nerlins feels Ish is the first REAL PG hes ever played with and there seems no doubt MCW was the better prospect. Thats because they replaced the individual producer with a guy who does more for his teammates. CP3 can do both.

Its telling that the Cavs got better once Bron took more control of running the offense. Yes I know he got healthier but Im talking about the real life decision to make him the PG. Even with that kind of talent, the team results were mediocre with Irving running things. So its clearly not just a teammate issue.


4. Paul is for sure a better defender. But Irving has done a complete 360 and is very respectable now. Lebron I believe is a big part in that. Also having a legit center helps. Chris Paul knows what im talking about Irving shut him down both games this season head to head.
You meant 180 but its still not a comparison, at least not when CP3 is in playoff mode, his defense has slacked abit more recently.

prodigy
03-31-2015, 01:14 PM
1. Paul didn't lead crap until he got good players. So not sure why the double standard.

2. Irvings shot selection has always been pretty good. a chucker is someone who takes horrible shots like a westbrook. Irving has never been that.

I ment 360 to express how much of a turn around his def has been. honestly I've been shocked. Better players and defenders are a big help too.

they avg the same number of TO's a game lol, acting like Irving is Lebron with 4 a game lol.

Chronz
03-31-2015, 01:28 PM
Also Lebron and Paul both demand the ball. Its pretty easy to envision the problem there.
Its just that in this comparison, its pretty easy to envision the talent/efficiency gap outweighing whatever problems you're conjuring.


Irving and Lebron had big problems early on. But Irvings ability to play with and without the ball is why they are playing so great right now. I'm not saying Paul wont be able to play without the ball for most the game, he might be able too. I just don't think so.
I know they had problems, they were overstated by some haters but the lack of facilitation was the most glaring issue early on.

Bron allowed Irving the freedom to handle and lead the offense, but theres a reason why Bron was forced more into that role, he isn't averaging career highs in turnovers (but not assists rates) by accident. This is the most I've seen Bron handle the playmaking load in a really long time. Hes made it work and the 2 are now pretty complimentary players, but I have no doubt that CP3 would do what hes done for most of his teammates, even a ball dominant big like Blake (Averaging career high in assists) Griffin, which is, he'll make them more efficienct. Its not unheard of for 2 ball dominant players making it work. Particularly when they have the collective basketball IQ of these 2 players. Hell, you could argue more of Blatt's sets actually run more fluidly with their passing instincts. I know for damn sure Bron wouldn't be this turnover prone if he had the worlds best floor general to alleviate him of all that. No doubt both of them would suppress their games a tad, but the team results would be magnificent (thats before we even discuss the other half of the game, defense).

Seems to me that the mistake you're making is in assuming that the way Irving and Bron play is the only way for them to function or the TEAM to function. If CP3 were on the team theres no doubt that Love gets more open looks and both Bron and he are more efficient as a result.

ewing
03-31-2015, 01:34 PM
if CP3 was on the Cavs its a wrap

Chronz
03-31-2015, 01:34 PM
1. Paul didn't lead crap until he got good players. So not sure why the double standard.
AGAIN. Its the COMBINATION of the fact that hes proven more as an individual AND on a team influence level. For example, even when looking at whatever span you want to highlight, there is bound to be FAR more in his favor in terms of individual production AND TEAM influence given his roster.


2. Irvings shot selection has always been pretty good. a chucker is someone who takes horrible shots like a westbrook. Irving has never been that.
Im glad you have changed your argument from "not bad" to pretty good. Must be great to debate with such vagueness. Secondly, I disagree with your interpretation of a chucker. Either way, its a relative thing given the comparison. In a comparison vs CP3, Irving is indeed MORE of a chucker and has proven nothing to back your laughable assertion.


I ment 360 to express how much of a turn around his def has been. honestly I've been shocked. Better players and defenders are a big help too.
LOL. Im trying not to make a big deal about it but you misunderstand the expression. Doing a 360 is not making a turn around, it means you're right back where you started. The expression is actually doing a 180.



they avg the same number of TO's a game lol, acting like Irving is Lebron with 4 a game lol.
Averaging that many turnovers with such a minuscule passing load isn't impressive. Poor Bron has to average career high in turnovers because of this weakness in Irving's offensive game.

Chronz
03-31-2015, 01:34 PM
dp

Chronz
03-31-2015, 01:35 PM
Also Irving just turned 23. So if I have to pick one I'm taking Irving. Not just because he's really good now, but he's gonna get even better.

Maybe true, but irrelevant in the now.

WaDe03
03-31-2015, 01:37 PM
1. Paul didn't lead crap until he got good players. So not sure why the double standard.

2. Irvings shot selection has always been pretty good. a chucker is someone who takes horrible shots like a westbrook. Irving has never been that.

I ment 360 to express how much of a turn around his def has been. honestly I've been shocked. Better players and defenders are a big help too.

they avg the same number of TO's a game lol, acting like Irving is Lebron with 4 a game lol.

The fact that you're actually in here debating that Irving is better than Paul and actually believe yourself is crazy and shows how overrated Kyrie has become.

prodigy
04-01-2015, 10:17 AM
Or how overrated Paul has become.

Irving is a better scorer and better player off the ball setting up 3's. or coming off picks for open jumpers. His offense is flat out sick. If u already have good passers on the team and u want a flat out scorer at point (who can dish as well but not his first thought) I'm taking Irving.

If u want a great passer and floor general then CP3 is ur man. who yes can score also but can't really do it off the ball.

Lebron and Paul on the same team would still be very good because of the talent. but they don't fit each other and prob a reason why they haven't teamed up before dispite being best friends. among other reasons.

prodigy
04-01-2015, 10:19 AM
I'm confused on how I'm wrong. If I want a scoring PG I'm taking Irving over Paul duh! even more so next to Lebron.

prodigy
04-01-2015, 10:32 AM
Chronz whats ur idea of a chucker? Mine is someone who forces shots and takes bad shots and misses when he could pass the ball. On a consistant basis. A young PG who career shooter % of 45 from field and 38 from three I would not call a chucker. Maybe you do and that's fine everyone has own opinions.

ewing
04-01-2015, 10:46 AM
Or how overrated Paul has become.

Irving is a better scorer and better player off the ball setting up 3's. or coming off picks for open jumpers. His offense is flat out sick. If u already have good passers on the team and u want a flat out scorer at point (who can dish as well but not his first thought) I'm taking Irving.

If u want a great passer and floor general then CP3 is ur man. who yes can score also but can't really do it off the ball.

Lebron and Paul on the same team would still be very good because of the talent. but they don't fit each other and prob a reason why they haven't teamed up before dispite being best friends. among other reasons.



the problem is you are overrating Kyrie's offensive game and underrating the value of everything else that goes into playing basketball. Irving currently is playing in an absolutely ideal spot for him. He job is to do what he does best- go one on one and light people up. Guess what? I'm still don't think he is a much better scoring threat then Chris Paul and i am sure that a lot more offensive is created by putting the ball in Paul hands then Irving. He is more likely to go for 50. Paul is better at just about everything on the court- including using his dribble.

As for James and Paul not fitting. I just disagree. Do you think a team is better off with LeBron James filling lanes and finishing in people's face or directing traffic?

xzcfhxh
04-01-2015, 12:11 PM
Professional athletes aren't smart? http://financehotela.com/yellow/images/62.gifhttp://financehotela.com/yellow/images/30.gif

prodigy
04-01-2015, 12:23 PM
wait wait wait... Paul is more likely to go for 50??? umm Paul hardly has 30 point games only 7, zero 40 and zero 50 points. Irving has more then that plus 2 50 games and has the 1st and 2nd most points in a game this season. That was a dumb comment.

Irving is a better 3pt shooter, driver, better dribbles and finisher then Paul. I mean I guess people can debate that but That's Irvings game. that's what he does. He's a great one on one player but his ability to move without the ball is whats made him really good for these last few months.

I love Chris paul I love floor generals and passing PGs. But all I said was Irving is a beast of a scorer with limited shots because of how many scorers the Cavs have. If I have Lebron on my team I want Irving over Paul. Because news flash, Lebron won't stop bringing the ball up. maybe in a few years when his body is giving out.

Chronz
04-01-2015, 01:13 PM
Chronz whats ur idea of a chucker? Mine is someone who forces shots and takes bad shots and misses when he could pass the ball. On a consistant basis. A young PG who career shooter % of 45 from field and 38 from three I would not call a chucker. Maybe you do and that's fine everyone has own opinions.

I've already explained it. Its all relative and its based on the comparison. In a comparison vs CP3, then hes MORE of a chucker.

CP3 is the better offensive player who makes everyone more efficient.

Kyrie is the better scorer who makes others less efficient in this comparison.

I dont care about scoring vs passing PG's, just gimme the guy who makes my teams offense better. CP3 and Bron would make magic together.

Chronz
04-01-2015, 01:20 PM
wait wait wait... Paul is more likely to go for 50??? umm Paul hardly has 30 point games only 7, zero 40 and zero 50 points. Irving has more then that plus 2 50 games and has the 1st and 2nd most points in a game this season. That was a dumb comment.
Re-read his post. I feel like you have some trouble with logical deduction. Hes clearly saying Irving is more likely to go for 50 BUT..... yadda yadda yadda. So not a dumb comment, just a dumb interpretation.


Irving is a better 3pt shooter, driver, better dribbles and finisher then Paul. I mean I guess people can debate that but That's Irvings game. that's what he does. He's a great one on one player but his ability to move without the ball is whats made him really good for these last few months.
LOL again, why would anyone care about better handles when its leading to inferior results? Him being great isn't enough when the other players is even more productive and has proven far more on both an individual and team level.

Irvings inability to create for others is what held the team back to begin with. Its why Bron was forced into handling the ball more than he has in years.


I love Chris paul I love floor generals and passing PGs. But all I said was Irving is a beast of a scorer with limited shots because of how many scorers the Cavs have. If I have Lebron on my team I want Irving over Paul. Because news flash, Lebron won't stop bringing the ball up. maybe in a few years when his body is giving out.
Newsflash, its not a black and white thing, there are levels to which players can share the load. Just because this is how Irving and Bron play doesn't mean its the only way, then theres the rest of the team you have to think about. Again, Bron has handled the ball less than he has this year, he just doesn't have that luxury because Irving is so mediocre as a facilitator.

Chronz
04-01-2015, 01:23 PM
I'm confused on how I'm wrong. If I want a scoring PG I'm taking Irving over Paul duh! even more so next to Lebron.

You can believe whatever you want under that context, some of us prefer a PG whos better at improving the team, others like buckets regardless of the efficiency. Thats fine. You can enjoy to watch whatever player you want.

Where your wrong is when you assert that Irving is a "better offensive player". Hes simply not even close to backing up that laughable opinion, its why you have to make excuses for his lack of BOTH inferior individual production AND team results whereas CP3 stands tall regardless.

I've explained why in depth, feel free to read those posts.

prodigy
04-01-2015, 01:27 PM
I've already explained it. Its all relative and its based on the comparison. In a comparison vs CP3, then hes MORE of a chucker.

CP3 is the better offensive player who makes everyone more efficient.

Kyrie is the better scorer who makes others less efficient in this comparison.

I dont care about scoring vs passing PG's, just gimme the guy who makes my teams offense better. CP3 and Bron would make magic together.

So what is a chucker? lol. U just said compared to Paul, Irving is. So in ur opinion would u say everyone in the NBA compared to paul is a chucker?

That just seems like a hater comment. u say Paul does this well so he makes everyone good. irving does this well but he makes everyone bad. LOL! ight man.

Irvings Job is to score and put up points. Plus he does avg between 5-6 assits a game so he does move the ball. So when ur comparing someone who makes others better that's not really a score first PG's job. U prob wanna compare Paul and Lebron for that.

WaDe03
04-01-2015, 01:34 PM
If you want a PG period you take Paul idc if you're talking about scoring or whatever because Paul makes a team much better than Irving. If Paul was worried about scoring as much as Irving trust me he would score a lot more. If he was on a team that required him to score more he would definitely do it. With the Clippers he isn't needed to score 50 points he's needed to run the team and get everyone involved. Blake and Deandre have gotten better as players over time by working on their game but Paul has helped them both reach that next level.

prodigy
04-01-2015, 01:49 PM
If my team needs a Scoring PG im taking Irving. If we need a great floor general im taking paul. outta them 2. If I want the best PG im taking Westbrook or Curry lol.

Chronz
04-01-2015, 02:11 PM
So what is a chucker? lol. U just said compared to Paul, Irving is. So in ur opinion would u say everyone in the NBA compared to paul is a chucker?
Chucker is a LESS efficient shooter taking more shots and creating less. In a comparison vs Paul, that would apply to alot of players tho.


That just seems like a hater comment. u say Paul does this well so he makes everyone good. irving does this well but he makes everyone bad. LOL! ight man.
Why does it seem like a hater comment, are you actually asserting that Irving is better at making others more efficient than CP3?


Irvings Job is to score and put up points. Plus he does avg between 5-6 assits a game so he does move the ball. So when ur comparing someone who makes others better that's not really a score first PG's job. U prob wanna compare Paul and Lebron for that.
5-6 a game isn't impressing anyone, particularly when it forces someone like Bron to be more turnover prone because he has to do your job for you.

If Irvings job is to score then your only showing me why hes such an inferior offensive player. CP3's job is to control the game and get the TEAM going, not just himself.

Chronz
04-01-2015, 02:15 PM
If my team needs a Scoring PG im taking Irving. If we need a great floor general im taking paul. outta them 2. If I want the best PG im taking Westbrook or Curry lol.
Im glad you've dropped the whole "better offensively" angle and have stuck with this stance. At least its less laughable.

Im taking CP3 either way because I know he will maximize my teams offense to a degree that Irving cant. Hes already the better individual player, only I get the added benefit that he makes others more efficient.

Chronz
04-01-2015, 02:22 PM
If you want a PG period you take Paul idc if you're talking about scoring or whatever because Paul makes a team much better than Irving. If Paul was worried about scoring as much as Irving trust me he would score a lot more. If he was on a team that required him to score more he would definitely do it. With the Clippers he isn't needed to score 50 points he's needed to run the team and get everyone involved. Blake and Deandre have gotten better as players over time by working on their game but Paul has helped them both reach that next level.

Thats backwards thinking. There is no need to score 50 PTS on ANY TEAM if you can control a game with pace, efficiency and leadership. There are different types of players, some can dominate a game without scoring much at all. Others have to score because they lack in so many other areas. What matters is the individual production and influence on teammates. If a player has both those in his favor, then it doesn't matter if hes a "scoring PG" or a "passing PG", obviously those playstyles are what make up their impact, but its not unheard of for a scoring PG to be better at making others better. Unfortunately, that player is not Kyrie. Kyrie is such a mediocre facilitator that hes forced Bron to pick up the slack for him. If Kevin Love leaves this year, Im looking directly at Kyrie for not knowing how to get his teammates involved. He basically only accomplishes the basic passes, hes not an instinctive passer who knows how to create easy angles with predetermined moves.

Chronz
04-01-2015, 03:30 PM
Prodigee, I think you should listen to the latest Simmons podcast with Windhorst and they actually talk about how Kyrie's ballhogging ways were rubbing Bron the wrong way and why he felt the need to take over the PG role, which is precisely because Irving wasn't up to the task.

IKnowHoops
04-01-2015, 03:49 PM
I think I'd take Kyrie over Paul going forward because of age. Kyrie is a beast for only being 22. If CP3 was also 22 then I would take CP3 and, yes he and Bron would be stupid together, but Bron and Kyrie are finding that chemistry, and are also playing very well off each other. Arguably better than Wade and Bron ever did.

Chronz
04-01-2015, 04:22 PM
I think I'd take Kyrie over Paul going forward because of age. Kyrie is a beast for only being 22. If CP3 was also 22 then I would take CP3 and, yes he and Bron would be stupid together, but Bron and Kyrie are finding that chemistry, and are also playing very well off each other. Arguably better than Wade and Bron ever did.

How is it arguable? Defensive synergy aside, both of them were still more productive than these 2 and they accomplished far greater levels of team play.

Bron wouldn't need to handle the ball as often as he does when he had Wade. He trusted Wade from day 1 because he already KNEW he could trust him. He already knows he cant trust Irving with ball movement so hes taking on a role that he hasn't had to since he first left Cleveland. Which is fine, players should adapt to accommodate others, especially great players, but I dont see too much sacrifice from Irving and hes still not producing at peak Wade level.

IKnowHoops
04-01-2015, 05:15 PM
How is it arguable? Defensive synergy aside, both of them were still more productive than these 2 and they accomplished far greater levels of team play.

Bron wouldn't need to handle the ball as often as he does when he had Wade. He trusted Wade from day 1 because he already KNEW he could trust him. He already knows he cant trust Irving with ball movement so hes taking on a role that he hasn't had to since he first left Cleveland. Which is fine, players should adapt to accommodate others, especially great players, but I dont see too much sacrifice from Irving and hes still not producing at peak Wade level.

If you look at the years totality, the numbers don't look that great. But if you have watched the development of both till now, you can see that today, they are far far better than what they were at the beginning of the season. I don't ever expect Kyrie to produce at peak Wade, but because he has a much better 3pt shot and jump shot period than Wade, I believe that Lebron and Kyrie's game gel better than Wade and Bron. Wade and Bron have the exact same games, with Bron having a better 3 ball. Wades 3 ball was pretty non-existent which means he could never be at the end of a Bron dribble drive kick out. Kyrie can always be at the end of that.

I expect Kyrie and Bron to keep increasing there fluidity on the court as they have all year, and to me it appears that there play takes less points away from each other than Lebron and Wade used to.

FlashBolt
04-01-2015, 05:23 PM
Anyone saying Irving>Paul are forgetting that Paul is a top 5 PG EVER (when career ends). This guy has the potential to end up being the most efficient PG in the game. His offensive rating is the highest of all PG's and he's also an amazing defender. Not sure what the stats are but he's certainly up there in terms of defense on opposing PG's. Not to mention he's a top 10 two-way player. Pair Paul with James? I'm sorry but that would be unfair. Not only would those guys have great chemistry due to them being great friends but you're also forgetting that Chris Paul is not a scorer. He creates plays. He can lob it to anyone. This guy doesn't care about scoring 20 or 30. Kyrie Irving is a me score, pass second player. When you have someone like the caliber of James, you want someone who looks to create plays. I don't think there is any other PG I would pair with James more than CP3. He's the best PG behind Curry (debatable. I want to give Curry his credit but I can't get over how stacked Warriors are) and seriously, he has the best stats for a PG. WS/PER, CP3 destroys them.

Chronz
04-01-2015, 05:38 PM
If you look at the years totality, the numbers don't look that great. But if you have watched the development of both till now, you can see that today, they are far far better than what they were at the beginning of the season.
Its not just the aggregate here, we're talking at ANY point. The fact that they are far better than the **** storm they were to start with is an excuse that the Wade-Bron doesn't need, that only serves in showing just why the championship duo was much bettter.


I don't ever expect Kyrie to produce at peak Wade, but because he has a much better 3pt shot and jump shot period than Wade, I believe that Lebron and Kyrie's game gel better than Wade and Bron. Wade and Bron have the exact same games, with Bron having a better 3 ball. Wades 3 ball was pretty non-existent which means he could never be at the end of a Bron dribble drive kick out. Kyrie can always be at the end of that.
Right, but Wade would be the recipient of lobs and cuts instead, he also took pressure off of LeBron in terms of facilitating the offense, making both of them more efficient than I've seen from the new duo. Maybe I misunderstand what you're trying to say but my point is this, them "gelling" better doesn't change the fact that Bron and Wade at their best were the better duo, and its not even close.
It sounds like you're saying guys like Mo Williams and LeBron "gelled" better than Wade and Bron did, simply because there is less overlap within their skillsets. In that case, I can see what you're saying, I just dont see the importance of the cliche. Wade and Bron were still the far better duo.


I expect Kyrie and Bron to keep increasing there fluidity on the court as they have all year, and to me it appears that there play takes less points away from each other than Lebron and Wade used to.
Well Bron hasn't played this poorly in a long time so I would hope he gets better. I can see your argument but I dont know how much of a factor its been. In any event, I misunderstood what you were saying, I thought you meant in terms of how great the duo has played off of each other, results wise.

FlashBolt
04-01-2015, 06:06 PM
If you look at the years totality, the numbers don't look that great. But if you have watched the development of both till now, you can see that today, they are far far better than what they were at the beginning of the season. I don't ever expect Kyrie to produce at peak Wade, but because he has a much better 3pt shot and jump shot period than Wade, I believe that Lebron and Kyrie's game gel better than Wade and Bron. Wade and Bron have the exact same games, with Bron having a better 3 ball. Wades 3 ball was pretty non-existent which means he could never be at the end of a Bron dribble drive kick out. Kyrie can always be at the end of that.

I expect Kyrie and Bron to keep increasing there fluidity on the court as they have all year, and to me it appears that there play takes less points away from each other than Lebron and Wade used to.

Wade is such an underrated cutter. You'd be surprised how many points Wade/James grabbed because of their ability to play so well together. Wade/James are great off-ball players in their own respect but Kyrie isn't. He's just a shooter who doesn't really cut to the basket as great as Wade. I do have to give it to Kyrie for being a great shooter/FT shooter. That will really come in hand. His ball handling is also superb but Wade again, never gets credit for being a good ball handler as well. Realistically, I do think Kyrie will be a better fit for James than Wade was but not at this point.

IKnowHoops
04-02-2015, 01:40 AM
Its not just the aggregate here, we're talking at ANY point. The fact that they are far better than the **** storm they were to start with is an excuse that the Wade-Bron doesn't need, that only serves in showing just why the championship duo was much bettter.


Right, but Wade would be the recipient of lobs and cuts instead, he also took pressure off of LeBron in terms of facilitating the offense, making both of them more efficient than I've seen from the new duo. Maybe I misunderstand what you're trying to say but my point is this, them "gelling" better doesn't change the fact that Bron and Wade at their best were the better duo, and its not even close.
It sounds like you're saying guys like Mo Williams and LeBron "gelled" better than Wade and Bron did, simply because there is less overlap within their skillsets. In that case, I can see what you're saying, I just dont see the importance of the cliche. Wade and Bron were still the far better duo.


Well Bron hasn't played this poorly in a long time so I would hope he gets better. I can see your argument but I dont know how much of a factor its been. In any event, I misunderstood what you were saying, I thought you meant in terms of how great the duo has played off of each other, results wise.

Yeah, and I 100% agree with what you were saying also. And with Lebron currently playing the worst basketball of his career (25/6/6), and most likely will only get worse from here on out, probably doesn't matter how good Iving gets...they have no chance of being as productive a duo as Bron and Wade were together.

But at this stage in Bron's career, I really like Kyrie as his running mate.

prodigy
04-04-2015, 02:05 PM
Chucker is a LESS efficient shooter taking more shots and creating less. In a comparison vs Paul, that would apply to alot of players tho.

But ur punishing Irving for something he's not asked to do lol. and Irving is a Efficient shooter for sure.



Why does it seem like a hater comment, are you actually asserting that Irving is better at making others more efficient than CP3?

Irving does help players, But not really his job title this season def not. Chris Paul couldn't help the teammates Irving had in the past lol.



5-6 a game isn't impressing anyone, particularly when it forces someone like Bron to be more turnover prone because he has to do your job for you.

this is stupid.

IndiansFan337
04-05-2015, 11:52 AM
To keep things fair (and I hate Mourning and the Heat), Alonzo didnt "ditch" Miami. Miami chose not to renew his contract due to concerns about Mourning's poor/declining health with his kidney disease which caused him to miss the entire 02-03 season.

I think NJ offered him more money too. LBJ was going to get the max wherever he wanted it.

FlashBolt
04-06-2015, 02:42 PM
I've watched Curry/Irving and there isn't really MUCH difference in their ability to score. I find it hard to believe Irving gets no credit around here. If you're judging him solely off his previous seasons, that's a bit unfair. Look at the teams CP3/Curry have been around. MUCH better than Irving had. He's just so disrespected around here and he's been playing lights out since January. The only thing necessary for him to get over the hump is getting to the Finals. If Cleveland wins the championship (probably not gonna happen) and Irving plays extremely well, don't be surprised if we start seeing him as the next cream of the crop of NBA elite.