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More-Than-Most
03-12-2015, 12:08 AM
It will probably be wiggins because of the name but does Noel deserve it over him? Do either deserve it over someone else?

Lakers + Giants
03-12-2015, 12:11 AM
Jordan Clarkson.

Seriously tho, Wiggins >>>>

More-Than-Most
03-12-2015, 12:14 AM
Jordan Clarkson.

Seriously tho, Wiggins >>>>

Has he honestly been better than Noel to you because I am not sure he has. He has had spurts where he looked amazing but hasnt been as consistent.

PowerHouse
03-12-2015, 12:31 AM
Jordan Clarkson.

Seriously tho, Wiggins >>>>

Clarkson has been ballin' lately. Not a ROY but a lock for 1st team all-rookie at least.

SeoulBeatz
03-12-2015, 12:38 AM
Wiggins still has the edge, but the race is closer than most people think. Especially with Noel's recent play.

Noel is currently 8th in the league in bpg and 10th in spg. (he's 1st for rookies in both categories)

That's a pretty remarkable feat for the young fella.

Ever since MCW got traded he's stepped up his game big time...

Past 10 games:

11.6 ppg, 10.5 rpg, 1.7 apg, 2.8 bpg, 3.0 spg.

He makes such an impact defensively because of his ability to both block and swipe the ball.

Once he puts on some more weight I don't see a reason why he can't be a DPOY candidate in the future.

SeoulBeatz
03-12-2015, 12:47 AM
and NBA.com just posted an article about this very issue

http://www.nba.com/2015/news/features/scott_howard_cooper/03/11/2014-15-rookie-ladder-week-19/

chi-townlove1
03-12-2015, 12:50 AM
Nikola

JEDean89
03-12-2015, 12:51 AM
Noel is certainly the Joakim Noah type that people predicted and the 76ers would be smart to hold on to him, but I think Wiggins has proven that he is a special player that comes around only ever few drafts. Its a shame that Jabari, Randle and Embiid are all injured but I think right now that the rankings have to be.

Wiggins
Noel
Mirotic
Nurkic
Payton

Those are the 5 guys that have been able to really produce at the NBA level so far. Smart, Exum and Gordon all have bright futures, but I think that these are the guys who were really NBA ready.

SeoulBeatz
03-12-2015, 01:22 AM
Has he honestly been better than Noel to you because I am not sure he has. He has had spurts where he looked amazing but hasnt been as consistent.

Well it's tough because Wiggins is definitely the better offensive prospect and his defensive abilities go beyond the numbers.

Here are their season stats compared:

Wiggins: 15.8 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 1.9 apg, 0.6 bpg, 1.1 spg, .437%FG, .728%FT
Noel----: 8.8 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 1.6 apg, 1.9 bpg, 2.0 spg, .444%FG, .600%FT

Cal827
03-12-2015, 01:23 AM
Yup, the one move I'll admit that appears to be a great one by the Philly is the Noel Trade. The guy is already very, very good defensively. Looks like AD will have competition for DPOY for years to come.

That being said, Wiggins will probably win it this season. Since like mid- December, he has played quite well. During one streak, he was averaging around 20ppg on around 50% shooting as well as playing extremely well defensively too (although he doesn't put up the blocks or steals). Hell, they're putting him against every star to see how he can do.

Wiggins
Noel
.....
.....
.....
Wow, this has been a fairly flat rookie race. Even if Jabari was around, there's usually 5 guys around who have good rookie years (and lose cause one guy went off).

Lakers + Giants
03-12-2015, 01:32 AM
Clarkson has been ballin' lately. Not a ROY but a lock for 1st team all-rookie at least.

Agreed, It may be bias, but Clarkson has looked like a top 5 rookie this year IMO.

lol, please
03-12-2015, 02:23 AM
Jordan Clarkson.

Seriously tho, Wiggins >>>>

#WankforTiggins

Poor Lakers, lmao. :laugh2: I will never forget.

2-ONE-5
03-12-2015, 09:03 AM
Wiggins is holding on but its gonna come down to the end with him and Noel. I think its pretty bad that Noel only avg's .3 less assists than Noel too and if Noel can pass him there it would just add to his case

jerellh528
03-12-2015, 10:12 AM
Jordan clarkson because he's led the lakers to a better record than philly and minny lmao. Jk, I'll goo with wiggins.

FraziersKnicks
03-12-2015, 10:32 AM
Wiggins is holding on but its gonna come down to the end with him and Noel. I think its pretty bad that Noel only avg's .3 less assists than Noel too and if Noel can pass him there it would just add to his case

I think it's pretty bad that Noel only shoots .007% better than Wiggins and is 7 foot.

Wiggins > Noel

tredigs
03-12-2015, 10:33 AM
Wiggins is holding on but its gonna come down to the end with him and Noel. I think its pretty bad that Noel only avg's .3 less assists than Noel too and if Noel can pass him there it would just add to his case

I bet Wiggins earns >85% of the 1st place votes.

Hawkeye15
03-12-2015, 11:05 AM
Wiggins was also asked to carry both sides of the floor for the Wolves for a long stretch.

Wiggins will run away with this, unless he just falls off a cliff to finish the season.

KnicksorBust
03-12-2015, 11:14 AM
Wiggins was also asked to carry both sides of the floor for the Wolves for a long stretch.

Wiggins will run away with this, unless he just falls off a cliff to finish the season.

I didn't expect Wiggins to bring it on defense at this level. He's already one of my top 10 favorite players to watch in the NBA. He just passed Cole Aldrich. Can he reach Andrea Bargnani??? I don't know.

mike44
03-12-2015, 11:19 AM
Wiggins will win but I think it's a toss up on who deserves it. Noel is top 10 in the league in steals, blocks, steal %, block %, defensive rating, d win shares, and is 2nd in defensive box +/-.

2-ONE-5
03-12-2015, 11:53 AM
I think it's pretty bad that Noel only shoots .007% better than Wiggins and is 7 foot.

Wiggins > Noel

except Noel was/is incredibly raw on offense even compared to Wiggins. the very low assists speaks towards wiggins play making or lack there of ability so far.

Corey
03-12-2015, 12:03 PM
I bet Wiggins earns >85% of the 1st place votes.

I agree

KnicksorBust
03-12-2015, 12:34 PM
I think it's pretty bad that Noel only shoots .007% better than Wiggins and is 7 foot.

Wiggins > Noel

Wiggins shoots 3's which naturally brings down your FG%. He's also much better at the FT line. You should compare their True Shooting Percentage.

Wiggins TS% - 50.7%
Noel TS% - 47.5%

FraziersKnicks
03-12-2015, 01:09 PM
except Noel was/is incredibly raw on offense even compared to Wiggins. the very low assists speaks towards wiggins play making or lack there of ability so far.

And Wiggins is clearly raw as a playmaker. They're both rookies and they're both raw in certain areas but you can't criticise Wiggins' low assists numbers but then give Noel a pass for his putrid shooting percentages because he's "raw" in that area.

2-ONE-5
03-12-2015, 01:56 PM
sure i can. Wiggins has a higher usage, he should be getting more ast by accident

FraziersKnicks
03-12-2015, 03:30 PM
sure i can. Wiggins has a higher usage, he should be getting more ast by accident

And Noel is 7 foot and plays on a team with hardly any other offensive options. He should be averaging more than 8 shots a game on 44% shooting whilst playing 31 minutes.

kobe4thewinbang
03-12-2015, 03:46 PM
Parker would've won, but that injury took him down. Wiggins has been improving lately, though the Wolves suck outside of Wiggins, Muhammad and Levine. Wiggins should win.

2-ONE-5
03-13-2015, 08:39 AM
And Noel is 7 foot and plays on a team with hardly any other offensive options. He should be averaging more than 8 shots a game on 44% shooting whilst playing 31 minutes.

Noel is 7 foot now? News to me. He should not be averasging any more shots than he does, its not his game to have a high volume of shots.

Tumstock
03-13-2015, 09:12 AM
Noel is certainly the Joakim Noah type that people predicted and the 76ers would be smart to hold on to him, but I think Wiggins has proven that he is a special player that comes around only ever few drafts. Its a shame that Jabari, Randle and Embiid are all injured but I think right now that the rankings have to be.

Wiggins
Noel
Mirotic
Nurkic
Payton

Those are the 5 guys that have been able to really produce at the NBA level so far. Smart, Exum and Gordon all have bright futures, but I think that these are the guys who were really NBA ready.

I agreee! But Marcus Smart has been really impressive on the defensive end.
Already one of the best guards on D, He never gets lost on a play and is just devastating on the ball and in the lanes.

If he figures it out on the offensive end, he'll be someone to look out for!

FraziersKnicks
03-13-2015, 10:10 AM
Noel is 7 foot now? News to me. He should not be averasging any more shots than he does, its not his game to have a high volume of shots.

Sorry 6'11..... With a 7'4 wingspan. He's not exactly small. It's also not Wiggins game to be a playmaker. You're not seeing this from both sides. Both guys are doing what's asked of them so you can't criticise Wiggins assists numbers but look past Noel's terrible shooting and scoring numbers.

2-ONE-5
03-13-2015, 10:15 AM
no i am. youre putting too much stock into the scoring which sadly is what most voters will do

FraziersKnicks
03-13-2015, 12:58 PM
no i am. youre putting too much stock into the scoring which sadly is what most voters will do

And you're doing exactly the same with Wiggins' assists numbers!

Anyway this argument is completely irrelevant. Wiggins has really come on offensively and has been playing some eye opening perimeter defense. Noel has only been good on one side of the ball. Wiggins will rightfully win ROY.

2-ONE-5
03-13-2015, 01:54 PM
Noels scoring has been steadily increasing and his defenseive production has been better than wiggins offensive.

FraziersKnicks
03-13-2015, 04:29 PM
Noels scoring has been steadily increasing and his defenseive production has been better than wiggins offensive.

Lets put it this way... The difference in the players offensively is a HUGE amount bigger than the difference defensively. Wiggins is just the all around more deserving player. I feel like I'm talking to a wall though because you're a Sixers fan and convinced yourself your boy has had a better ROY campaign when you're just being a bit of a homer.

Hawkeye15
03-13-2015, 04:36 PM
was Noel asked at any point to be the go to player on offense (get us 19 a night), while guarding the other teams best scorer every single night?

The interesting thing is, if we look at the splits, if Wiggins would have played the whole year like he has the past 36-37 games, this would be a joke of a runaway. But, he didn't, I get that.

But anyone who doesn't see Wiggins is the best rookie isn't watching him or paying attention to his numbers since that time. He has had plenty of stretches where he is the best player on the floor.

Not that this has anything to do with ROY voting, but is there anyone that would take Noel going forward over Wiggins?

FraziersKnicks
03-13-2015, 05:04 PM
was noel asked at any point to be the go to player on offense (get us 19 a night), while guarding the other teams best scorer every single night?

The interesting thing is, if we look at the splits, if wiggins would have played the whole year like he has the past 36-37 games, this would be a joke of a runaway. But, he didn't, i get that.

But anyone who doesn't see wiggins is the best rookie isn't watching him or paying attention to his numbers since that time. He has had plenty of stretches where he is the best player on the floor.

Not that this has anything to do with roy voting, but is there anyone that would take noel going forward over wiggins?

2-one-5

2-ONE-5
03-14-2015, 09:56 AM
Lets put it this way... The difference in the players offensively is a HUGE amount bigger than the difference defensively. Wiggins is just the all around more deserving player. I feel like I'm talking to a wall though because you're a Sixers fan and convinced yourself your boy has had a better ROY campaign when you're just being a bit of a homer.

actually no when this started i said its gonna go to Wiggins but to shoot down Noel like he doesnt have a chance is crazy talk.

2-ONE-5
03-14-2015, 09:58 AM
2-one-5

at the moment no but ask me in 2 years and that answer could chance, and im sure it could change for a lot of people.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
03-14-2015, 01:38 PM
Parker would've won, but that injury took him down. Wiggins has been improving lately, though the Wolves suck outside of Wiggins, Muhammad and Levine. Wiggins should win.

I agree. This rookie of the year trophy is jinx and more less sloppy seconds. Parker had it in the bag. Now its just gift wrapped to the next healthy high volume chucker.

FraziersKnicks
03-14-2015, 01:58 PM
Cousins absolutely demolished Noel last night. 39 and 24 :laugh2:

RaiderKid318
03-14-2015, 02:25 PM
Question for everyone, would the Pelicans have been better off if they kept Noel?

FlashBolt
03-14-2015, 03:40 PM
Noel is so underrated. Seriously, watch some Sixers game. This kid is going to be a top 15 player easily. He's long, mobile, and is a poor man's Anthony Davis (which is still better than 80% of the league). He held his own against Cousins and the past 8 games, he has been absolutely sensational for a rookie. He needs a couple of years and should also look to bulk up a few pounds but people forget how good Noel was. When Embiid comes back and can provide some assistance, this team will be dangerous in a couple of years. If Noel can finish the season strong, he's certainly an MVP caliber rookie.

SeoulBeatz
03-14-2015, 04:00 PM
Question for everyone, would the Pelicans have been better off if they kept Noel?

yes. a tandem of anthony davis and nerlens would be absurd

Kaner
03-14-2015, 04:03 PM
I agree. This rookie of the year trophy is jinx and more less sloppy seconds. Parker had it in the bag. Now its just gift wrapped to the next healthy high volume chucker.

Lol. Jabari was averaging 12/5.5/2 on okay efficiency when he went down, he started improving but, let's not pretend he was having an amazing rookie campaign. Wiggins has been better for the last 2-3 months then Parker when he got hurt.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
03-16-2015, 08:34 AM
Lol. Jabari was averaging 12/5.5/2 on okay efficiency when he went down, he started improving but, let's not pretend he was having an amazing rookie campaign. Wiggins has been better for the last 2-3 months then Parker when he got hurt.


Only thing Wiggins had over Parker back then was Wiggins 3 ball was dropping more often then Parkers. Parker had the lead in most categories before injury.

FraziersKnicks
03-16-2015, 08:39 AM
Noel is so underrated. Seriously, watch some Sixers game. This kid is going to be a top 15 player easily. He's long, mobile, and is a poor man's Anthony Davis (which is still better than 80% of the league). He held his own against Cousins and the past 8 games, he has been absolutely sensational for a rookie. He needs a couple of years and should also look to bulk up a few pounds but people forget how good Noel was. When Embiid comes back and can provide some assistance, this team will be dangerous in a couple of years. If Noel can finish the season strong, he's certainly an MVP caliber rookie.

Cousins dropped 39 and 24... How on earth did he "hold his own?

Kaner
03-16-2015, 01:29 PM
Only thing Wiggins had over Parker back then was Wiggins 3 ball was dropping more often then Parkers. Parker had the lead in most categories before injury.

Okay, so should we ignore everything Wiggins has done the last 3 months? He's been better for months then Parker was to start the season. Maybe Parker plays better then Wiggins if he doesn't get hurt but that's still an assumption, to say that everyone else would be playing for 2nd is ridiculous, good chance with or without Parker going down Wiggins is leading or tied for the ROY race.

chi-townlove1
03-16-2015, 03:20 PM
I don't think you guys watch Nikola enough

Stunner
03-16-2015, 04:30 PM
Wiggins
Mirotic
Noel
Payton
Clarkson

Stunner
03-16-2015, 04:35 PM
I don't think you guys watch Nikola enough

They don't and that's ok , if he got the mins all the other top rookies got on bad teams it would be him and wiggins neck and neck .


@BullsFam_: Nikola Mirotic last 9 games
27pts 4rebs
15pts 9rebs
16pts 12rebs 5ast
18pts 12rebs
19pts
10pts 8rebs
26pts 8rebs
23pts 8rebs
29pts 9rebs

SeoulBeatz
03-16-2015, 04:48 PM
They don't and that's ok , if he got the mins all the other top rookies got on bad teams it would be him and wiggins neck and neck .


@BullsFam_: Nikola Mirotic last 9 games
27pts 4rebs
15pts 9rebs
16pts 12rebs 5ast
18pts 12rebs
19pts
10pts 8rebs
26pts 8rebs
23pts 8rebs
29pts 9rebs

No doubt he's been playing well when he's getting the minutes.

Over the last 10 games for each player (Mirotic has been averaging 30+ mins his last 10 games, similar to Wiggins and Noel)

Mirotic-: 19.1 ppg, 7.7 rpg, 1.5 apg, 1.1 bpg, 0.8 spg, .397%FG
Wiggins: 16.7 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 1.4 apg, 0.6 bpg, 1.0 spg, .426% FG
Noel---: 11.9 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 1.7 apg, 1.9 bpg, 2.7 spg, .465%FG

It would certainly be a more interesting race if Mirotic had been getting more minutes and Noel hadn't have a slow start.

sixer04fan
03-17-2015, 01:26 AM
I've actually been following Mirotic closely this year. With Gibson, Rose, and Butler out he's really been shining. He's having a solid season overall, with ups and down, but has been on fire in the last few weeks for sure. Tons of respect for him.

Yes I am a Sixers fan, but I really believe if you look at it objectively, Noel is still having the better year and is more worthy of ROY (not including Wiggins, who is the favorite).

Mirotic would definitely be looking even better than he is now if he were on the Sixers, of course. But that's not part of this. Let's not forget that Mirotic is 4 years older than both Noel and Wiggins. And Noel's closest experience to playing professional basketball was a mere 24 games at Kentucky 2 years ago. Beyond that his last full season was in high school 3 years ago. IMO, that makes his transition and rapid improvement this season even more impressive.

We can argue hypotheticals all day. But if we're gonna say Mirotic would be better on the Sixers this year. Well, Noel will also be much better in 4 years when he's Mirotic's age. No matter what team he's on.

2-ONE-5
03-17-2015, 08:40 AM
They don't and that's ok , if he got the mins all the other top rookies got on bad teams it would be him and wiggins neck and neck .


@BullsFam_: Nikola Mirotic last 9 games
27pts 4rebs
15pts 9rebs
16pts 12rebs 5ast
18pts 12rebs
19pts
10pts 8rebs
26pts 8rebs
23pts 8rebs
29pts 9rebs

a good 9 game run doesnt make you ROY. Lets not forget he still averages 9ppg and 4rebs on 39% shooting

nickdymez
03-17-2015, 09:36 AM
Jordan Clarkson, dead serious

Stunner
03-17-2015, 11:14 AM
a good 9 game run doesnt make you ROY. Lets not forget he still averages 9ppg and 4rebs on 39% shooting

Did I say it should make him rookie of the year ? Read the entire post bro and then some , it's more than 9 games he's been putting in work every time he's gotten big mins .

It's also rare that a rookie helps this much on a team that was considered to be going for a title .

Mins are the only real reason that keeps Niko from having a very strong case for winning ROTY but he's still top 3 in the race for it and if Jabari wasn't hurt he would still be top 5 .

sixer04fan
03-17-2015, 11:54 AM
Did I say it should make him rookie of the year ? Read the entire post bro and then some , it's more than 9 games he's been putting in work every time he's gotten big mins .

It's also rare that a rookie helps this much on a team that was considered to be going for a title .

Mins are the only real reason that keeps Niko from having a very strong case for winning ROTY but he's still top 3 in the race for it and if Jabari wasn't hurt he would stop be top 5 .

Agree with this for the most part

Hawkeye15
03-17-2015, 01:22 PM
Did I say it should make him rookie of the year ? Read the entire post bro and then some , it's more than 9 games he's been putting in work every time he's gotten big mins .

It's also rare that a rookie helps this much on a team that was considered to be going for a title .

Mins are the only real reason that keeps Niko from having a very strong case for winning ROTY but he's still top 3 in the race for it and if Jabari wasn't hurt he would still be top 5 .

well yeah, going to a team that is already good and doesn't need much from a rookie kills his chances, for sure.

I do think Wiggins is the ROY, fairly easily, but the attached is really the only thing they vote on, good or bad....

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/scoring-per-game/sort/avgPoints/position/rookies

KnicksorBust
03-17-2015, 02:44 PM
well yeah, going to a team that is already good and doesn't need much from a rookie kills his chances, for sure.

I do think Wiggins is the ROY, fairly easily, but the attached is really the only thing they vote on, good or bad....

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/scoring-per-game/sort/avgPoints/position/rookies

Rookies stink lately. I had to go back a few years just to find competitive races with multiple good players. Spoiler alert: 2010 is my favorite

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/scoring-per-game/sort/avgPoints/year/2010/position/rookies

Hawkeye15
03-17-2015, 02:57 PM
Rookies stink lately. I had to go back a few years just to find competitive races with multiple good players. Spoiler alert: 2010 is my favorite

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/scoring-per-game/sort/avgPoints/year/2010/position/rookies

why the **** did you have to go throwing Jonny Flynn in my face brah!

KnicksorBust
03-17-2015, 05:53 PM
I don't think you guys watch Nikola enough

He turns the ball over as much as he gets assists. He is a meh rebounder. He cant even crack 40% from the field. I have watched but a hot 2 weeks doesnt put him near Wiggins. Wiggins literally has done EVERYTHING better than Mirotic.

Hawkeye15
03-17-2015, 07:34 PM
He turns the ball over as much as he gets assists. He is a meh rebounder. He cant even crack 40% from the field. I have watched but a hot 2 weeks doesnt put him near Wiggins. Wiggins literally has done EVERYTHING better than Mirotic.

if you have watched Wiggins since his turnaround (nobody here has really), you also see that he gets absolutely hammered on 5-6 drives a game with no call. Getting the rookie treatment. He will be living at the line starting next year.

Factor in the fact that Flip has him guarding the elite perimeter players (and he isn't doing a bad job), and really, this year is no contest.

sixer04fan
03-17-2015, 10:44 PM
No contest? For the record, I voted for Wiggins in this poll, but that's homer talk.

JustinTime
03-17-2015, 10:54 PM
I don't know if this has been said yet but Wiggins is in the West, Noel is in the awful East and Wiggins is still better with the way harder schedule.

sixer04fan
03-17-2015, 11:01 PM
I don't know if this has been said yet but Wiggins is in the West, Noel is in the awful East and Wiggins is still better with the way harder schedule.

Extremely poor reasoning IMO. So now we are changing the way we rate individual players because of which conference they play in?

Wiggins' team is as equally terrible as Noel's team is this year, and Wiggins has much more talent around him.

JustinTime
03-17-2015, 11:06 PM
Extremely poor reasoning IMO. So now we are changing the way we rate individual players because of which conference they play in?

Wiggins' team is as equally terrible as Noel's team is this year, and Wiggins has much more talent around him.

Timberwolves would probably be a playoff team in the east or close to it so it's definitely something that should be considered. Success in the west is worth more than success in the east right now.

sixer04fan
03-17-2015, 11:09 PM
Timberwolves would probably be a playoff team in the east or close to it so it's definitely something that should be considered. Success in the west is worth more than success in the east right now.

The Sixers are 2-0 against the Wolves this year. They flat out suck.

sixer04fan
03-17-2015, 11:21 PM
Again, I voted for Wiggins in this poll. He's been better for a longer stretch of the year. My argument is that it's not a "no contest" like some think. Noel has a legitimate case and could end up being a close 2nd.

Grantland's case for Nerlens as ROY last week: http://grantland.com/the-triangle/nerlens-noel-the-other-rookie-of-the-year/

NBA.com's most recent Rookie Ladder, pointing out how Nerlens is closing the gap: http://www.nba.com/2015/news/features/scott_howard_cooper/03/11/2014-15-rookie-ladder-week-19/index.html

Or you can compare the players statistically for yourself: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&y1=2015&p1=wiggian01&y2=2015&p2=noelne01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

I voted for Wiggins, so it's not like I'm being a homer here. The writers of Grantland and NBA.com say it for me.

JustinTime
03-17-2015, 11:33 PM
The Sixers are 2-0 against the Wolves this year. They flat out suck.

T-wolves are 2-0 vs Portland though. When healthy they are pretty good team probably the equivalent of the Bucks.

SeoulBeatz
03-17-2015, 11:39 PM
Again, I voted for Wiggins in this poll. He's been better for a longer stretch of the year. My argument is that it's not a "no contest" like some think. Noel has a legitimate case and could end up being a close 2nd.

Grantland's case for Nerlens as ROY last week: http://grantland.com/the-triangle/nerlens-noel-the-other-rookie-of-the-year/

NBA.com's most recent Rookie Ladder, pointing out how Nerlens is closing the gap: http://www.nba.com/2015/news/features/scott_howard_cooper/03/11/2014-15-rookie-ladder-week-19/index.html

Or you can compare the players statistically for yourself: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&y1=2015&p1=wiggian01&y2=2015&p2=noelne01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

I voted for Wiggins, so it's not like I'm being a homer here. The writers of Grantland and NBA.com say it for me.

This. but i AM a homer.

sixer04fan
03-17-2015, 11:50 PM
T-wolves are 2-0 vs Portland though. When healthy they are pretty good team probably the equivalent of the Bucks.

That's your opinion I guess. You have every right to believe that so I respect that. There's no way to valiadate that claim though, nor do I think it holds any weight in this discussion.

No ROY voter is thinking "Hmm, well, Wiggins plays in the West, which is the tougher conference. And the Wolves, when healthy, are equivalent to the Bucks. So when healthy and switching conferences, the Wolves are technically a playoff team. So that's a reason for why I'll vote for Wiggins."

SeoulBeatz
03-17-2015, 11:52 PM
Timberwolves would probably be a playoff team in the east or close to it so it's definitely something that should be considered. Success in the west is worth more than success in the east right now.

Bit of a stretch.

Sure, it's tougher in the West, but they're only 8-17 vs the East.

At that winning % they would still be 13th in the conference, hardly close to the playoffs.

JustinTime
03-17-2015, 11:54 PM
That's your opinion I guess. You have every right to believe that so I respect that. There's no way to valiadate that claim though, nor do I think it holds any weight in this discussion.

No ROY voter is thinking "Hmm, well, Wiggins plays in the West, which is the tougher conference. And the Wolves, when healthy, are equivalent to the Bucks. So when healthy and switching conferences, the Wolves are technically a playoff team. So that's a reason for why I'll vote for Wiggins."

If you're a gm trying to upgrade your team and you have two players with the same stats one on the 76ers and one on the Warriors who do you go with? I bet GM's factor in the schedules a lot actually as do players. Lebron stays in the east for a reason- half the workload.

JustinTime
03-18-2015, 12:01 AM
Bit of a stretch.

Sure, it's tougher in the West, but they're only 8-17 vs the East.

At that winning % they would still be 13th in the conference, hardly close to the playoffs.

5-5 with Rubio healthy

sixer04fan
03-18-2015, 12:06 AM
If you're a gm trying to upgrade your team and you have two players with the same stats one on the 76ers and one on the Warriors who do you go with? I bet GM's factor in the schedules a lot actually as do players. Lebron stays in the east for a reason- half the workload.

We're getting off topic, but... Really? The 76ers and the WARRIORS? Yeah, of course I'll take the guy on the Warriors lol. All things being equal.

One guy putting up X stats on the Warriors is way different than putting up the same X stats on the Timberwolves. You do realize that, right? Even though they're both in the West. It has nothing to do with the strength of schedule.

There are hundreds of other factors that go into comparing players, or choosing a guy for your team, that get more precedent than what conference he plays in. This is not a debate.

SeoulBeatz
03-18-2015, 12:14 AM
5-5 with Rubio healthy

True but he hasn't been healthy so the results are what they are.

I'm sure the Sixers would be slightly better too if Embiid and Wroten weren't out but what can ya do?

SeoulBeatz
03-18-2015, 12:15 AM
We're getting off topic, but... Really? The 76ers and the WARRIORS? Yeah, of course I'll take the guy on the Warriors lol. All things being equal.

One guy putting up X stats on the Warriors is way different than putting up the same X stats on the Timberwolves. You do realize that, right? Even though they're both in the West. It has nothing to do with the strength of schedule.

There are hundreds of other factors that go into comparing players, or choosing a guy for your team, that get more precedent than what conference he plays in. This is not a debate.

Yeah these arguments have really gone off on a tangent.

Hawkeye15
03-18-2015, 12:17 AM
No contest? For the record, I voted for Wiggins in this poll, but that's homer talk.

considering the voter pattern, do you really thing anyone else stands a chance?

Wiggins will get 80% of the vote.

sixer04fan
03-18-2015, 12:27 AM
considering the voter pattern, do you really thing anyone else stands a chance?

Wiggins will get 80% of the vote.

The voter pattern of a prosportsdaily online forum poll with a month to go still in the season? That's indicative of who should win the award? Or how the votes will play out?

Excuse me if I don't believe the correlation is as strong as you do.

mngopher35
03-18-2015, 01:02 AM
The voter pattern of a prosportsdaily online forum poll with a month to go still in the season? That's indicative of who should win the award? Or how the votes will play out?

Excuse me if I don't believe the correlation is as strong as you do.

He probably means voter pattern of looking at ppg. My guess would be that there has never been a winner not to average double digits when it comes to scoring. Not saying it is the best method but that is how the award usually goes.

sixer04fan
03-18-2015, 01:24 AM
He probably means voter pattern of looking at ppg. My guess would be that there has never been a winner not to average double digits when it comes to scoring. Not saying it is the best method but that is how the award usually goes.

Oh haha. That makes a little more sense. If that's the case for what hawkeye meant, then my bad. I thought he was referring to the poll results.

I'm still saying the rookie center who averages 10/8 and finishes top 10 in the league in blocks and steals has a legitimate case against the wing who averages 16/4. Not saying he'll win. In fact, I said he'll lose. But there's a case for him to be close.

Disagree with me, fine. The same case is being made by Grantland and NBA.com.

mngopher35
03-18-2015, 02:00 AM
Oh haha. That makes a little more sense. If that's the case for what hawkeye meant, then my bad. I thought he was referring to the poll results.

I'm still saying the rookie center who averages 10/8 and finishes top 10 in the league in blocks and steals has a legitimate case against the wing who averages 16/4. Not saying he'll win. In fact, I said he'll lose. But there's a case for him to be close.

Disagree with me, fine. The same case is being made by Grantland and NBA.com.

I don't disagree, Noel has had a bigger impact defensively while Wiggins has on offense. I think overall Wiggins has been better but it is definitely close. When it comes to the ROY award Wiggins seems like the pretty obvious choice though since they usually vote for scorers over defenders.

More-Than-Most
03-18-2015, 02:14 AM
Noel Continues to dominate while Wiggins has fallen off again.

Last 10 games

Noel-

13PPG
11RPG
2 Blocks per game

MonroeFAN
03-18-2015, 06:14 AM
Noel is certainly the Joakim Noah type that people predicted

Wait what? After half a season?

Iversonfan4life
03-18-2015, 11:45 AM
wiggins wont be winning if things keep going the way they have for him and noel since the all star break.

Iversonfan4life
03-18-2015, 11:55 AM
nerlens is ascending while wiggins is descending

Hawkeye15
03-18-2015, 01:53 PM
Oh haha. That makes a little more sense. If that's the case for what hawkeye meant, then my bad. I thought he was referring to the poll results.

I'm still saying the rookie center who averages 10/8 and finishes top 10 in the league in blocks and steals has a legitimate case against the wing who averages 16/4. Not saying he'll win. In fact, I said he'll lose. But there's a case for him to be close.

Disagree with me, fine. The same case is being made by Grantland and NBA.com.

it's straight up ppg. Wiggins will get the majority of the vote.

tredigs
03-18-2015, 03:31 PM
It would seem that Wiggins would be one of the weaker ROY winners in memory, but that's probably a natural bi-product of the 1 and done era.

Hawkeye15
03-18-2015, 10:05 PM
It would seem that Wiggins would be one of the weaker ROY winners in memory, but that's probably a natural bi-product of the 1 and done era.

yes it is. Get used to it. Wiggins does show star promise though.

SeoulBeatz
03-18-2015, 10:08 PM
It would seem that Wiggins would be one of the weaker ROY winners in memory, but that's probably a natural bi-product of the 1 and done era.

MCW<<Wiggins, Wiggins has all-star potential.

Stunner
03-18-2015, 10:26 PM
25 and 9 for Niko tonight

Ezio
03-18-2015, 10:37 PM
25 and 9 for Niko tonight

:shush: Don't give away our playoffs x factor

Stunner
03-19-2015, 12:24 AM
@NickFriedell: From @ESPNStatsInfo: Nikola Mirotic came into tonight averaging 10 PPG in 4th Qtr in March, most in the league. He had 10 in 4th tonight.

ChI_ShIzzLe
03-19-2015, 01:33 AM
@NickFriedell: From @ESPNStatsInfo: Nikola Mirotic came into tonight averaging 10 PPG in 4th Qtr in March, most in the league. He had 10 in 4th tonight.

The Serbian Slayer

Stunner
03-19-2015, 03:24 AM
Aside from his unruly beard, what's not to like about Nikola Mirotic? He's become must-watch TV in the month of March, and that's not just relative to the product the banged-up Bulls are trotting out on a nightly basis. In fact, one could make the claim -- with careful consideration as pertaining to Rose's health, of course -- that Chicago's future will be driven by Mirotic, Butler and Rose. Prior to the season, I'm not sure even Mirotic's biggest supporters saw the 6-foot-10 Montenegrin becoming a franchise fixture this quickly. By and large, Mirotic's first season in Chicago has been a grand success.

Debating Mirotic's ceiling is a fun exercise -- A No. 2 option on a good team? A No. 3 option on a great team? Future All-Star? -- but this three-week stretch of basketball he's played in the month of March raises a much more pertinent matter: what happens to Mirotic this season once (read: if) the team is fully healthy? And moreover, what will become of Mirotic's role in the postseason?

The significance of these questions obviously stem from Mirotic's increase in production after being given ample playing time. Since Mar. 1, Mirotic is doubling his season average in points and is nearly doing the same in the rebounding department. His efficiency remains praiseworthy -- despite his seemingly pedestrian field goal and three-point shooting clips -- as evidenced by his 55.6 true shooting percentage in March, which incorporates added value of threes and free throws.

Mirotic frequently takes one of the more efficient shots in basketball, and there's arguably never been a rookie who plays with as much of an efficiency as Mirotic has this season. According to Basketball Reference, he's the only rookie ever to post a three-point rate and free-throw rate above .470.

Mirotic's growing confidence and ability is perhaps best showcased by his fourth quarter production. Since Mar. 1, Mirotic has scored an astonishing 90 fourth-quarter points, averaging nearly a point per minute while he's on the floor. He's also shooting 86.5 percent (32-37) from the free throw line in the fourth. Which, to quote Stacey King, is 'free cheese' to Niko. And on many an occasion, Mirotic has provided an offensively challenged team its only source of scoring in the final stretches of games.

Simply put: Mirotic should be on the floor as much as possible under these dire circumstances. Even his defense -- which I'll admit, often does not pass the eye test -- hasn't been a major determent to the team. In March, the Bulls are 4.7 points worse in defensive efficiency (per 100 possessions) when Mirotic sits. But given this information, I still wouldn't feel comfortable saying Mirotic makes the team better on defense, despite what the numbers may suggest. In fact, while he's absolutely made some convincing strides, I believe he's a liability on that end due to a lack of quickness and upper body strength.

But maybe what matters most here is not how much Mirotic is playing, but rather whom he is playing with. This can be illustrated using net rating for some player combinations, which simply is offensive efficiency subtracted from defensive efficiency per 100 possessions. On the year, the two-man lineup of Mirotic and Taj Gibson has produced a +6.7 net rating. The two-man combination of Mirotic and Joakim Noah has produced a +6.0 net rating. Meanwhile, the Mirotic and Pau Gasol tandem doesn't even possess a positive net rating.




This is where our open-ended questioning becomes legitimate postulation. The numbers speak for themselves and over the past few weeks it has become abundantly clear that Mirotic is currently the best offensive weapon the Bulls have. I'd even go as far as to say Mirotic is the best player the Bulls have right now, period. Mirotic has earned the right to major minutes, but as we know, those minutes dwindle -- he's averaging over 30 minutes per game in March but is averaging under 20 per game on the season -- once the roster is healthy and full. So, what happens to him come playoff time?

In my opinion -- even though I just got finished explaining how well he's played -- I still can't fully justify giving a rookie major minutes in the postseason when proven commodities like Noah, Gasol and Gibson haven't played poorly enough to warrant Mirotic superseding their spots in the rotation. As we all know, the playoffs are a different breed of basketball, including a level of intensity that I'm not sure Mirotic (though he's played in the Euroleague) has ever been exposed to. So, while I feel differently in my gut, I'd dispassionately understand that Tom Thibodeau would be right to ride Gasol and Noah, and placing Mirotic back down to fourth in the pecking order once the team is healthy and in the postseason.

Now, if this were a team in a developmental position to use a playoff series -- win or lose -- as a learning experience for a group of young players, then by all means a guy like Niko should be in a major role. However, that's not a reality for these Bulls.

The shame is that if it were not for Mirotic's tricky buyout situation (thanks, CBA) preventing him from becoming a Bull prior to this season, then I think this current predicament would be much easier to deal with. Maybe a year of NBA playoff experience means it'd be more reasonable to assume he'd be starting by now.

Instead, it's more a conversation we'll be having this summer. For now, patriarchy will rule the day and Chicago's playoff hopes are married to a couple 30-something big men (plus Rose's rehab recovery, and Butler maintaining top form). But Mirotic has been so good as a rookie that this offseason should make for some fun, yet tough, decisions.

.

Stunner
03-19-2015, 03:32 AM
Some fun facts for Niko:
He’s 2nd among rookies in points scored at 609 (Wiggins is 1st at 1036). Niko reached that mark in 1300 minutes of playing time. Nerlens Noel is 3rd in points scored at 581, but it took him 1943 minutes of playing time to get there. Out of the top 10 scoring rookies, Mirotic is posting the highest TS% at .550.

by TianDogg on 03.18.15 4:55pm
up reply
 More fun facts for Niko
As of today (3/18), among rookies, Niko is:

1st in PER
1st in VA
1st in EWA
4th in TS%
4th in USG
5th in REBR
5th in RPG
2nd in TRB
6th in PPG
1st in 3PTs made
2nd in PPS
3rd in total DBL-DBLs
2nd in FTA and FTM (both Per Game and Total)

2-ONE-5
03-19-2015, 08:58 AM
its like you Bulls fans dont get how ROY voting works. Everyone knows Mitoric is a good player but he is not going to be in consideration for ROY votes with his season as a whole.

Hawkeye15
03-19-2015, 10:17 AM
its like you Bulls fans dont get how ROY voting works. Everyone knows Mitoric is a good player but he is not going to be in consideration for ROY votes with his season as a whole.

no, he isn't.

Btw, shouldn't a 24 year old with pro experience be ready to contribute in the NBA, versus a 19 year old who played one year in our POS 1-done system.

Like it or not, Wiggins PPG, and role, are winning him the award. The race has been over for a while now.

In reality, who even cares about the ROY award.

DaBUU
03-19-2015, 10:44 AM
As good as Niko's been he hasnt played enough this year. Award will be Wiggins.

2-ONE-5
03-19-2015, 11:09 AM
no, he isn't.

Btw, shouldn't a 24 year old with pro experience be ready to contribute in the NBA, versus a 19 year old who played one year in our POS 1-done system.

Like it or not, Wiggins PPG, and role, are winning him the award. The race has been over for a while now.

In reality, who even cares about the ROY award.

if you're sayin Mitrotic isnt good you are way off and if you thin Wiggins really locked up ROy a while ago you're still pretty off.

Ezio
03-19-2015, 12:44 PM
no, he isn't.

Btw, shouldn't a 24 year old with pro experience be ready to contribute in the NBA, versus a 19 year old who played one year in our POS 1-done system.

Like it or not, Wiggins PPG, and role, are winning him the award. The race has been over for a while now.

In reality, who even cares about the ROY award.

CBA and agents?

bucks4life1
03-19-2015, 12:48 PM
wiggins or mirotic

KnicksorBust
03-19-2015, 12:49 PM
if you're sayin Mitrotic isnt good you are way off and if you thin Wiggins really locked up ROy a while ago you're still pretty off.

Just wait until you see the final votes. He's right. You're wrong.

sportfan73
03-19-2015, 01:23 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2399858-2015-nba-rookie-ladder-nerlens-noel-does-the-impossible/page/11?is_shared=true I know its BR. Still people are taking notice. The gap has been significantly narrowed.

Ezio
03-19-2015, 03:52 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2399858-2015-nba-rookie-ladder-nerlens-noel-does-the-impossible/page/11?is_shared=true I know its BR. Still people are taking notice. The gap has been significantly narrowed.

The guys ahead of him have been better - BR on Mirotic. Yeah bs Mirtoic leads the league in 4th quarter scoring for the month of March while playing for a contender.

Stunner
03-19-2015, 04:01 PM
@KCJHoop: Of Mirotic's 208 points in March, 100 have come in 4th quarter.

lol, please
03-19-2015, 04:40 PM
Holiday.

KnicksorBust
03-19-2015, 06:42 PM
The guys ahead of him have been better - BR on Mirotic. Yeah bs Mirtoic leads the league in 4th quarter scoring for the month of March while playing for a contender.

So are we supposed to ignore the early part of the season?

Ezio
03-20-2015, 01:27 AM
So are we supposed to ignore the early part of the season?

Yeah like we how we are ignoring Parker leading the race until he got injured.

FlashBolt
03-20-2015, 01:43 AM
Noel for me. Wiggins is the bigger name and voters are infatuated with PPG so... he'll get it.

More-Than-Most
03-20-2015, 01:44 AM
no, he isn't.

Btw, shouldn't a 24 year old with pro experience be ready to contribute in the NBA, versus a 19 year old who played one year in our POS 1-done system.

Like it or not, Wiggins PPG, and role, are winning him the award. The race has been over for a while now.

In reality, who even cares about the ROY award.

Its been over because of his name when actually there is a huge case for Noel over him and if things continue the way they are wiggins wont deserve it over a guy like noel.

lol, please
03-20-2015, 02:22 AM
Noel for me. Wiggins is the bigger name and voters are infatuated with PPG so... he'll get it.
PER and TS% > ppg

2-ONE-5
03-20-2015, 08:43 AM
Just wait until you see the final votes. He's right. You're wrong.

no im not.


Holiday.

Justin? you know hes not a rook right.

More-Than-Most
03-20-2015, 10:16 PM
Yea Noel is gonna easily deserve the rookie of the year at this point. Dude is a monster

23 points
14 rebounds
5 steals
3 blocks tonight

9-14 shooting.

Stunner
03-20-2015, 10:20 PM
Niko

29 points

11 rebounds

4 blocks

11-21

Doogolas
03-20-2015, 10:29 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=mirotni01&p2=noelne01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

Niko basically destroys Noel.

Here's all 3:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=mirotni01&y1=&p2=noelne01&y2=&p3=wiggian01&p4=&p5=&p6=

surprisingly Niko has a better 2pt% than Wiggins.

STRIKERC
03-20-2015, 10:44 PM
Niko

29 points

11 rebounds

4 blocks

11-21

Noel > Niko as far as tonite stat's go

Doogolas
03-20-2015, 10:45 PM
Noel > Niko as far as tonite stat's go

Niko > Noel as far as the season goes.

SeoulBeatz
03-20-2015, 11:02 PM
Nerlens with 23 pts, 14 boards, 5 steals, 3 blocks tonight.

espn twitter:
"Nerlens Noel is the youngest player in NBA history to put up at least 20 points, 10 rebounds, 5 steals and 3 blocks in a game. #Elias"

More-Than-Most
03-20-2015, 11:46 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=mirotni01&p2=noelne01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

Niko basically destroys Noel.

Here's all 3:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=mirotni01&y1=&p2=noelne01&y2=&p3=wiggian01&p4=&p5=&p6=

surprisingly Niko has a better 2pt% than Wiggins.

Niko is playing 11 less minutes... Yes he has the production but that is huge esp when it comes to defense and so on... Noel is out rebounding/and playing all around better defense and is a bigger part of the team while playing more. If Niko plays more his production might not be much better and could be worse from fatigue and so on. He is literally in the perfect position right now. I still think noel and wiggins are ahead of him... Niko is basically a bench piece playing against tired players and bench players where wiggins and noel are starters going against the best players on a team night in and night out.

Stunner
03-21-2015, 12:14 AM
Noel was playing the Knicks yo

Stunner
03-21-2015, 12:15 AM
Niko is playing 11 less minutes... Yes he has the production but that is huge esp when it comes to defense and so on... Noel is out rebounding/and playing all around better defense and is a bigger part of the team while playing more. If Niko plays more his production might not be much better and could be worse from fatigue and so on. He is literally in the perfect position right now. I still think noel and wiggins are ahead of him... Niko is basically a bench piece playing against tired players and bench players where wiggins and noel are starters going against the best players on a team night in and night out.

Dude Niko putting up this high production vs starters :/

sixer04fan
03-21-2015, 12:19 AM
Nerlens with 23 pts, 14 boards, 5 steals, 3 blocks tonight.

espn twitter:
"Nerlens Noel is the youngest player in NBA history to put up at least 20 points, 10 rebounds, 5 steals and 3 blocks in a game. #Elias"

Also this -

@JClarkCSN: Nerlens Noel: 23 pts,14 RBs,5 steals, 3 blocks. Last rookie with that line: Shaq 93. Last NBA player: Dwight Howard 8 yrs ago.

8 years since anyone put up that line

ManRam
03-21-2015, 12:43 AM
I don't think Elf deserves it, but he's the first Magic player ever to post back-to-back triple doubles. He drives me NUTS with his inability to score, but he does just about everything else amazingly well, rookie or not.

Fun rookie class.

Hawkeye15
03-21-2015, 01:54 AM
how many people here will be upset when Wiggins gets 90% of the votes or more?

dalton749
03-21-2015, 01:56 AM
Wiggins, Noel, mirotic, Payton , Clarkson, Nurkic have all been good.
Parker exum, smart, Gordon, randle, embid, vonleh, Lavine will make this draft look really good in a few years

More-Than-Most
03-21-2015, 02:16 AM
how many people here will be upset when Wiggins gets 90% of the votes or more?

shouldnt really be upset but more so expect it because of the name. Right now Noel has been more deserving though.

5ass
03-21-2015, 02:36 AM
I don't think Elf deserves it, but he's the first Magic player ever to post back-to-back triple doubles. He drives me NUTS with his inability to score, but he does just about everything else amazingly well, rookie or not.

Fun rookie class.


His first 35 games:
25.3 mpg 6.6pts-5.2asts-3.3rb-1.3stls-2.4to at 39/16/47%

Next 36 games (after new year):
33.1mpg 10.3pts-7asts-4.8rbs-1.8stls-2.6 to at 44/36/56%

kozelkid
03-21-2015, 05:47 AM
how many people here will be upset when Wiggins gets 90% of the votes or more?
Hardly upset as long as we can acknowledge that it's primarily the result of name recognition and ppg.

RLundi
03-21-2015, 09:47 AM
This thread has basically turned into a bunch of homers saying why the rookie on their favorite team should win the award. Here to provide a little objectivity: deservedly so or not, Wiggins will win it, and it probably isn't that close.

Stunner
03-21-2015, 12:03 PM
Noel


https://youtu.be/_gzAQEsNWDg


Niko

https://youtu.be/iIlzkxUy4Sc

2-ONE-5
03-21-2015, 12:08 PM
[QUOTE=Doogolas;29752408]Niko > Noel as far as the season goes.[/QUOTE

playing on the Bulls is a lot easier than playing on the sixers who dont even have a real point guard on the team

MonroeFAN
03-21-2015, 12:17 PM
Logic would suggest it's easier for the centerpiece of a bad team to put up big numbers, compared to a rotation bench player on a playoff team. Who is Chicago's real point guard again?

sixer04fan
03-21-2015, 12:35 PM
This thread has basically turned into a bunch of homers saying why the rookie on their favorite team should win the award. Here to provide a little objectivity: deservedly so or not, Wiggins will win it, and it probably isn't that close.

But the thread title is who SHOULD win. That's where a conversation can be had.

And for a homer-driven debate (which it really is), there's actually much better conversation than you'd expect. I think everyone acknowledges that these 3/4 rookies are all good. The fans from each team just want to get their points in on why their guy could deserve it

JustinTime
03-21-2015, 01:06 PM
Wiggins will win it but his play has gone downhill a lot as of late. He can't even hit 3's anymore which was a huge part of his game early on.

FlashBolt
03-21-2015, 01:50 PM
I don't think Elf deserves it, but he's the first Magic player ever to post back-to-back triple doubles. He drives me NUTS with his inability to score, but he does just about everything else amazingly well, rookie or not.

Fun rookie class.

He's just like Rondo. I hate when PG's can't score. Becomes a huge detriment to the team tbh.


how many people here will be upset when Wiggins gets 90% of the votes or more?

Don't think anyone pays ROY much attention. It doesn't really mean much tbh. If this wasn't a thread, we'd all just go about our day.

mRc08
03-21-2015, 02:03 PM
Logic would suggest it's easier for the centerpiece of a bad team to put up big numbers, compared to a rotation bench player on a playoff team. Who is Chicago's real point guard again?

This. Niko has saved the bulls from slipping in the standings with all the injuries we've suffered as well.

TurboDEEZsmoke
03-21-2015, 03:08 PM
Niko has played consistent ball all season except for 1 month where a struggled a little. But he hasn't been givin big minutes early on. He has played big though in a number of games

More-Than-Most
03-21-2015, 08:13 PM
Logic would suggest it's easier for the centerpiece of a bad team to put up big numbers, compared to a rotation bench player on a playoff team. Who is Chicago's real point guard again?

Logic also says that he is going up against tired bench players a big part of the time while Noel a big man is playing more minutes against starters and putting up better numbers on a team where he has 0 help on offense or defense and oh yea he is a monster on the defensive end considering he is also top 10 in steals.

Stunner
03-21-2015, 09:03 PM
The Niko vs the bench argument is really lazy IMO , he was going against as many starters as he was bench players like most nba players . Niko games were he played over 25 mins he was facing starters more than the bench .

More-Than-Most
03-21-2015, 09:16 PM
The Niko vs the bench argument is really lazy IMO , he was going against as many starters as he was bench players like most nba players . Niko games were he played over 25 mins he was facing starters more than the bench .

Its not a lazy argument at all but it actually holds merit and has been used all the time in many other arguments because context is key... Noel/Wiggins play more minutes and against starters and have to deal with their own fatigue and the fact that they are going up against the other teams best players when they are at their max and sustaining their play against that kind of pace is huge on both sides of the ball where both of those players are great both offensively and defensively.... Its a lazy argument only if you are a fan of said player sorry.

FlashBolt
03-21-2015, 10:19 PM
Mirotic isn't the ROY.. let's stop that discussion. It's either Wiggins or Noel at this point.

cahawk
03-21-2015, 11:00 PM
Wiggins is ROY + Wiggins has a huge upside

effen5
03-21-2015, 11:02 PM
I wish more people watched niko....he's going to be the next superstar in this league....and people who say he plays mostly the bench is ridiculous.his efficiency is incredible especially in the 4th where most of this scoring is coming from anyway

Seizabmc
03-21-2015, 11:22 PM
Wiggins will win it.

Noel is deserving .

But my vote goes to Langston Galloway of the New York Knicks.

The next big O

IKnowHoops
03-22-2015, 12:35 AM
Noel making the push, if he continues to play like he has, or even step it up a notch, Nerlens has my vote. He's looking to be the next Anthony Davis.

tredigs
03-22-2015, 01:37 AM
I wish more people watched niko....he's going to be the next superstar in this league....and people who say he plays mostly the bench is ridiculous.his efficiency is incredible especially in the 4th where most of this scoring is coming from anyway

What part of his efficiency is "incredible"?

lol, please
03-22-2015, 01:07 PM
how many people here will be upset when Wiggins gets 90% of the votes or more?
Except he shouldn't because Noel should run away with the Lions share of the votes and it shouldn't be close.

Sadds The Gr8
03-22-2015, 01:29 PM
Wiggins will easily win it. Mirotic would've had a shot if Taj Gibson never existed.

Hawkeye15
03-22-2015, 02:57 PM
Except he shouldn't because Noel should run away with the Lions share of the votes and it shouldn't be close.

Meh, I am just stating what it will be. Wiggins will runaway with it most likely.

RLundi
03-22-2015, 03:06 PM
The arguments for Mirotic are laughable. One poster even said he'll be a "superstar."

bootsy
03-22-2015, 03:13 PM
Noel was playing the Knicks yo

Don't care who he was playing yo. The Knicks are an NBA team and to put up those numbers are impressive yo.

Stunner
03-22-2015, 04:48 PM
Don't care who he was playing yo. The Knicks are an NBA team and to put up those numbers are impressive yo.

Yes a nba team full of D League players , Noel could have put those numbers up in the d league bro . Knicks have the worst roster in the entire NBA

lol, please
03-22-2015, 05:50 PM
Yes a nba team full of D League players , Noel could have put those numbers up in the d league bro . Knicks have the worst roster in the entire NBA
D league players? Stop it.

Stunner
03-22-2015, 05:58 PM
D league players? Stop it.

Only players on that team with an ounce of cred is Bargs and Calderon who is hurt . Shved has been looking decent of late but basically the Knicks are filled with rooks , 2nd year players both who could spend time in the d league honestly so don't let it come to you as a shock .
Not to mention the rest of the roster is filled out with players that wouldn't see playing time on a team with an actual good roster .

Philly just happen to be less trash of a roster when they faced the Knicks .

chi-townlove1
03-23-2015, 10:18 PM
Just gonna keep saying one word. Nikola.

Stunner
03-23-2015, 10:26 PM
YALL GONNA GIVE NIKO HIS PROPS , HE GETTING BUCKETS WITH EVERYONE PLAYING BUT ROSE !!!!

MR 4th QUARTER STRIKES AGAIN

Stunner
03-23-2015, 10:42 PM
@ESPNStatsInfo: Nikola Mirotic with 14 more 4th-quarter points tonight

Most PPG In 4th Quarter, Since March 1
Mirotic 9.5, LeBron 8.5, Westbrook 8.3



@HPbasketball: Nikola Mirotic straight up RUDE. https://t.co/1OGpV8l2T3

chitownbulls
03-23-2015, 11:05 PM
In the month of March Niko is averaging 20.4 ppg, 8.2 rpg in 32 minutes. While also leading the league in 4th quarter scoring. How can you not give this guy recognition? He's balling out of his mind and Noel and Wiggins are no way near his level THIS month.

If you're going to look at a whole season of work then this goes to Wiggins easily. But people laughing at Niko are obviously delusional to his play recently. Those are all star numbers ATM.

FlashBolt
03-23-2015, 11:18 PM
In the month of March Niko is averaging 20.4 ppg, 8.2 rpg in 32 minutes. While also leading the league in 4th quarter scoring. How can you not give this guy recognition? He's balling out of his mind and Noel and Wiggins are no way near his level THIS month.

If you're going to look at a whole season of work then this goes to Wiggins easily. But people laughing at Niko are obviously delusional to his play recently. Those are all star numbers ATM.

Because this is the ROTY.. not Rookie of the Month. He's playing well but look at his regular season numbers.

Stunner
03-23-2015, 11:38 PM
Because this is the ROTY.. not Rookie of the Month. He's playing well but look at his regular season numbers.

Yes look at his regular season numbers with inconsistent mins throughout the year , but mins where he's playing over 25 he's been a big factor . Doesn't have the boost of mins from playing on a bad team .

Mamba42
03-23-2015, 11:56 PM
It's funny how people are acting like Mirotic is benefiting from being on the Bulls. If he was on a bad team he'd play 35 MPG and be a primary scorer. He doesn't even start for the Bulls and is still killing it. I think Wiggins takes the award, too much name recognition, but the argument that it's advantageous for him to play on a contender is ridiculous. Rookies hardly ever contribute on contending teams, and Nikola is contributing in a huge way.

chitownbulls
03-23-2015, 11:57 PM
Because this is the ROTY.. not Rookie of the Month. He's playing well but look at his regular season numbers.

That's why I said if you're looking at the whole season it's obviously Wiggins. But people not acknowledging what what he's doing this month, or his skill level compared to Wiggins and Noel are way off. ATM they don't hold a candle to Mirotic

FlashBolt
03-24-2015, 12:13 AM
Yes look at his regular season numbers with inconsistent mins throughout the year , but mins where he's playing over 25 he's been a big factor . Doesn't have the boost of mins from playing on a bad team .

Too bad that's not how ROTY of the works.. if you want to use mins as a factor, that's fine but this guy is 24. That certainly doesn't help Wiggins since being 24 with already years of experience on a professional level is certainly an advantage.

FlashBolt
03-24-2015, 12:17 AM
That's why I said if you're looking at the whole season it's obviously Wiggins. But people not acknowledging what what he's doing this month, or his skill level compared to Wiggins and Noel are way off. ATM they don't hold a candle to Mirotic

Yeah, which answers your own question. This guy isn't your typical rookie. He has played professionally for quite some time now. ROTY is seriously not going to go to some guy who's been playing well for one month compared to someone who has been playing stellar all season all the while having more attraction. If this was for a month, Mirotic/Noel would have more of a case. But for an entire season? Gimme Wiggins or Noel. Wiggins also had an amazing month of January (20 PPG 50% 5 reb 3 apg).

Stunner
03-24-2015, 12:23 AM
Nobody said he should win tho , god y'all are slow . Just saying he deserved some credit , regardless of age of a rookie it's all harder than whatever level that player came from .


Any rookie cracking and helping a contender in a big way is something that should be credited . Especially when that player is playing for someone like Thibs who is strict and favors vets

Hawkeye15
03-24-2015, 12:33 AM
Nobody said he should win tho , god y'all are slow . Just saying he deserved some credit , regardless of age of a rookie it's all harder than whatever level that player came from .


Any rookie cracking and helping a contender in a big way is something that should be credited . Especially when that player is playing for someone like Thibs who is strict and favors vets

he is 24 and a seasoned pro. Why should he get that much credit for being a really good rotation player at his age?

Can you imagine what Wiggins will be at his age?

Stunner
03-24-2015, 12:40 AM
he is 24 and a seasoned pro. Why should he get that much credit for being a really good rotation player at his age?

Can you imagine what Wiggins will be at his age?

But overseas is different from the nba , y'all harping way too much on his age . Nobody said he was better than wiggins , would hold a lot of weight if that was the argument .

A rookie is a rookie regardless of age , if he was this age coming out of college would this be your argument ? It's just pointless IMO he's just turned 24 this year and year older than the other rookie on our team .

chi-townlove1
03-24-2015, 12:45 AM
I know these guys, my fellow bulls fans aren't saying it, but I am. Mirotic is better than wiggins now. He will be better than wiggins 5 years from now. And he is only at a disadvantage because thibs didn't play him, plain and simple. If there is one rookie that I would take from this year to have on my team, it's mirotic.

RLundi
03-24-2015, 12:51 AM
I know these guys, my fellow bulls fans aren't saying it, but I am. Mirotic is better than wiggins now. He will be better than wiggins 5 years from now. And he is only at a disadvantage because thibs didn't play him, plain and simple. If there is one rookie that I would take from this year to have on my team, it's mirotic.

You may be right that he's better than Wiggins now, but in 5 years? I think your vision may be a little clouded. But I'd love to hear why you think a 24 year old who's not much better than Wiggins now will be better than Wiggins in the absolute physical prime of his career.

Hawkeye15
03-24-2015, 12:54 AM
But overseas is different from the nba , y'all harping way too much on his age . Nobody said he was better than wiggins , would hold a lot of weight if that was the argument .

A rookie is a rookie regardless of age , if he was this age coming out of college would this be your argument ? It's just pointless IMO he's just turned 24 this year and year older than the other rookie on our team .

I understand a rookie is a rookie, but please don't try and convince me that Nic isn't WAY more advanced in his professional career.

Wiggins is winning ROY, in a runaway. Right or wrong.

Stunner
03-24-2015, 01:03 AM
I understand a rookie is a rookie, but please don't try and convince me that Nic isn't WAY more advanced in his professional career.

Wiggins is winning ROY, in a runaway. Right or wrong.

Dude what are you debating ? I never said Wiggins wasn't going to win ROTY why do you keep bringing it up ? Lol

You just want here me say yes Wiggins is far superior to Niko now and in the future despite Niko having " professional overseas experience "

So now I'm glad to know that every overseas rookie that comes over his way more advances than the us rookies . Thank you for this informative information

Stunner
03-24-2015, 01:08 AM
Niko vs Cha


http://youtu.be/DkHCEvfde7Q

chi-townlove1
03-24-2015, 01:48 AM
I know these guys, my fellow bulls fans aren't saying it, but I am. Mirotic is better than wiggins now. He will be better than wiggins 5 years from now. And he is only at a disadvantage because thibs didn't play him, plain and simple. If there is one rookie that I would take from this year to have on my team, it's mirotic.

You may be right that he's better than Wiggins now, but in 5 years? I think your vision may be a little clouded. But I'd love to hear why you think a 24 year old who's not much better than Wiggins now will be better than Wiggins in the absolute physical prime of his career.

You act as if Nikola is in the "absolute physical prime of his career". He's nowhere near it bud. This is just the beginning for him. He's finally getting acclimated to NBA game. He's building confidence. Learning English. And understanding the differences and the playbook. Honestly, I'd come close to arguing that mirotic had more of a gap coming from Spain than wiggins did coming from college. So I'm sick of hearing from Hawkeye and others, that he was way farther along in American style Basketball than wiggins. Acting as if he has some incredible advantage.

More-Than-Most
03-24-2015, 03:33 AM
I would take wiggins over anybody honestly but noel and niko are far more deserving for the ROY.

Procision
03-24-2015, 05:12 AM
Wiggins will win the award but...


Niko 20.8 USG, .555 TS%, 17.81 PER
Wiggins 20.4 USG, .507 TS%, 13.06 PER

FraziersKnicks
03-24-2015, 06:08 AM
If someone gave me the choice of Wiggins or Mirotic for the next 5 years, there is absolutely no chance I'm not taking Wiggins.

I'm pretty sure it's only Bulls homers that would answer differently.

PhillyFaninLA
03-24-2015, 07:48 AM
So are we supposed to ignore the early part of the season?

I think with Rookies you need to look at 2 things

- as you bring up, you need to look at the whole season and what they meant to the team
- for ROY I want to see progression in play and how they alter games....I want the ROY to be better and more game altering in April then in November

PhillyFaninLA
03-24-2015, 07:50 AM
Noel was playing the Knicks yo

Yes and so have many other teams and not done what he did

2-ONE-5
03-24-2015, 08:56 AM
Nobody said he should win tho , god y'all are slow . Just saying he deserved some credit , regardless of age of a rookie it's all harder than whatever level that player came from .


Any rookie cracking and helping a contender in a big way is something that should be credited . Especially when that player is playing for someone like Thibs who is strict and favors vets

not one person has dimsissed him though, literally not one person said he isnt good ro cant play or doesnt deserve some recognition.

Hawkeye15
03-24-2015, 09:25 AM
Dude what are you debating ? I never said Wiggins wasn't going to win ROTY why do you keep bringing it up ? Lol

You just want here me say yes Wiggins is far superior to Niko now and in the future despite Niko having " professional overseas experience "

So now I'm glad to know that every overseas rookie that comes over his way more advances than the us rookies . Thank you for this informative information

not sure what you are debating either. You are blowing up a thread called, "Who Should Win ROY" with Niko. I get you want everyone to pay attention to his play, I think most here have.

A 24 year old with professional experience overseas absolutely is more advanced than an incoming 19 year old rookie from the US. But that is obvious.

kozelkid
03-24-2015, 10:47 AM
not sure what you are debating either. You are blowing up a thread called, "Who Should Win ROY" with Niko. I get you want everyone to pay attention to his play, I think most here have.

A 24 year old with professional experience overseas absolutely is more advanced than an incoming 19 year old rookie from the US. But that is obvious.

Wiggins definitely has more room to grow and possibly even a higher upside. I think what upsets many people here though, is the notion that Mirotic has little area to improve or at least that is the allusion some of you are giving. Sure, he's 24, but he's still fairly raw and inexperienced.

He has yet to hit a legitimate NBA conditioning program for the offseason.
He has NEVER played close to as many minutes and games as he has this season and he has already mentioned a few times how fatiguing this season has been for him.

Basically, and maybe you don't believe this (though it comes across as though you do), the notion that he still doesn't have a lot of growth left.

He's a lot tougher and more athletic than most people assumed he'd be (because of the stereotypes that come with being a white euro player). He's a better shooter than his numbers suggest. He has the shooter's touch and once he gets that consistency going along with added weight and endurance this offseason (and another one or two), there's no reason he can't at least be a 20-23 PER type player with a 56-59 TS%.

Bit of a weird comparison, but he reminds me a lot of Manu Ginobili. A 6'10 one who is VERY crafty, has sneaky athleticism, and is actually younger than Manu was while having a more impressive rookie season.

Again, there's a reason Wiggins was drawing comparisons to the likes of Durant. While, I think he was overhyped, there's no question his upside is immense and I don't blame anyone for preferring him. I just hope for his sake, he becomes a good ball-handler, because anything less, and he is all-star caliber at best.

Hawkeye15
03-24-2015, 01:43 PM
Wiggins definitely has more room to grow and possibly even a higher upside. I think what upsets many people here though, is the notion that Mirotic has little area to improve or at least that is the allusion some of you are giving. Sure, he's 24, but he's still fairly raw and inexperienced.

He has yet to hit a legitimate NBA conditioning program for the offseason.
He has NEVER played close to as many minutes and games as he has this season and he has already mentioned a few times how fatiguing this season has been for him.

Basically, and maybe you don't believe this (though it comes across as though you do), the notion that he still doesn't have a lot of growth left.

He's a lot tougher and more athletic than most people assumed he'd be (because of the stereotypes that come with being a white euro player). He's a better shooter than his numbers suggest. He has the shooter's touch and once he gets that consistency going along with added weight and endurance this offseason (and another one or two), there's no reason he can't at least be a 20-23 PER type player with a 56-59 TS%.

Bit of a weird comparison, but he reminds me a lot of Manu Ginobili. A 6'10 one who is VERY crafty, has sneaky athleticism, and is actually younger than Manu was while having a more impressive rookie season.

Again, there's a reason Wiggins was drawing comparisons to the likes of Durant. While, I think he was overhyped, there's no question his upside is immense and I don't blame anyone for preferring him. I just hope for his sake, he becomes a good ball-handler, because anything less, and he is all-star caliber at best.

oh by no means is Mirotic in his prime or peak, he still needs to learn a lot about the NBA game. It's different. But no, he doesn't possess the same likely outcome as a player that Wiggins does. Meaning, do you think the Bulls would trade him for Wiggins? I think you know that is a very easy answer.

kozelkid
03-24-2015, 01:51 PM
oh by no means is Mirotic in his prime or peak, he still needs to learn a lot about the NBA game. It's different. But no, he doesn't possess the same likely outcome as a player that Wiggins does. Meaning, do you think the Bulls would trade him for Wiggins? I think you know that is a very easy answer.

I don't disagree. But after seeing a season of Wiggins, do you actually believe that he has a realistic chance of reaching said outcome?

Let's put it this way, I don't think the Bulls would look to actively deal Mirotic for Wiggins. It's a type of scenario where if the conversation is taking place, the T-Wolves hang up faster. But I'm not sure either party would be in favor of the deal.

Hawkeye15
03-24-2015, 01:57 PM
I don't disagree. But after seeing a season of Wiggins, do you actually believe that he has a realistic chance of reaching said outcome?

Let's put it this way, I don't think the Bulls would look to actively deal Mirotic for Wiggins. It's a type of scenario where if the conversation is taking place, the T-Wolves hang up faster. But I'm not sure either party would be in favor of the deal.

what outcome though? I never bought into the Durant/LeBron impact, but I think he will be the next tier under. He is much better than I thought he would be. Getting more calls alone (he gets hammered attacking the rim) is going to do wonders to his efficiency.

I am usually very reserved on players potential, cause more often than not, they don't live up to it. But I think Wiggins will be a top 5 player in the game over his prime.

kozelkid
03-24-2015, 02:00 PM
what outcome though? I never bought into the Durant/LeBron impact, but I think he will be the next tier under. He is much better than I thought he would be. Getting more calls alone (he gets hammered attacking the rim) is going to do wonders to his efficiency.

I am usually very reserved on players potential, cause more often than not, they don't live up to it. But I think Wiggins will be a top 5 player in the game over his prime.

Let's put it this way, I think Mirotic is very much capable of being somewhere in the 8-20 range. Some sort of hybrid combo between Manu and Chris Bosh. And I think that that outcome is a lot more likely (given his floor) than Wiggins reaching his ceiling. Take that for what you will.

FlashBolt
03-24-2015, 03:35 PM
Wiggins has Paul George potential. Paul George at his prime IMO would be a top 5 player in this game. The best 5 players in my opinion when healthy are:

Paul George
LeBron James
Kevin Durant
Anthony Davis
Stephen Curry

chitownbulls
03-24-2015, 03:59 PM
Wiggins has Paul George potential. Paul George at his prime IMO would be a top 5 player in this game. The best 5 players in my opinion when healthy are:

Paul George
LeBron James
Kevin Durant
Anthony Davis
Stephen Curry

No james harden? I'd have to agree with what you said for the most part

kozelkid
03-24-2015, 04:42 PM
Wiggins has Paul George potential. Paul George at his prime IMO would be a top 5 player in this game. The best 5 players in my opinion when healthy are:

Paul George
LeBron James
Kevin Durant
Anthony Davis
Stephen Curry

By what measurement has Paul George proven to ever be a top 5 player? Aside from an unsustainable red hot first 2-3 months last season, he's shown to be more or less in the 8-15 range.

Either way, that's the only comparison I can make off the top of my head for Wiggins' upside. And even then, I still have a hard time envisioning it until he improves his ball-handling which isn't something you typically see players make great improvements in at this point of their careers (i.e. in the NBA).

Hawkeye15
03-24-2015, 04:47 PM
By what measurement has Paul George proven to ever be a top 5 player? Aside from an unsustainable red hot first 2-3 months last season, he's shown to be more or less in the 8-15 range.

Either way, that's the only comparison I can make off the top of my head for Wiggins' upside. And even then, I still have a hard time envisioning it until he improves his ball-handling which isn't something you typically see players make great improvements in at this point of their careers (i.e. in the NBA).

his in game ball handling has improved a huge amount in-season. He turned 20 a few weeks ago haha, how is it not possible for him to improve his handle this summer, and even next?

How much have you watched him this year? He is showing the skillsets that will lead to being an awesome player soon.

kozelkid
03-24-2015, 05:00 PM
his in game ball handling has improved a huge amount in-season. He turned 20 a few weeks ago haha, how is it not possible for him to improve his handle this summer, and even next?

Mainly because it's a skill that seems to reach it's development early in any player's development.


How much have you watched him this year? He is showing the skillsets that will lead to being an awesome player soon.

5-6 games.

He has some unique skill sets, namely his defensive versatility. And I do think he will eventually be a dead-eye shooter because he has very good form and mechanics. I'm just not convinced he can develop enough in the iso-game department differentiate himself from a very good player to a superstar.

Listen, I don't have any beef or bias with Wiggins, if that's what you think. If anything, I would LOVE for him to be the next great. If any team could use such a player, it's certainly the T-Wolves. Not to mention, I feel for the kid for all that **** he had to go through this past summer.

Hawkeye15
03-24-2015, 05:03 PM
Mainly because it's a skill that seems to reach it's development early in any player's development.



5-6 games.

He has some unique skill sets, namely his defensive versatility. And I do think he will eventually be a dead-eye shooter because he has very good form and mechanics. I'm just not convinced he can develop enough in the iso-game department differentiate himself from a very good player to a superstar.

Listen, I don't have any beef or bias with Wiggins, if that's what you think. If anything, I would LOVE for him to be the next great. If any team could use such a player, it's certainly the T-Wolves. Not to mention, I feel for the kid for all that **** he had to go through this past summer.

he is already good in the post, finishes at the rim, can shoot, and his ball handling has seen a lot of improvement, just in season. And as I stated earlier, when he isn't getting the rookie treatment, and getting fouls called more (he gets hacked on his drive multiple times a game), he will be living at the stripe, the goal of any efficient player.

Meh, I am not going to try and sell him. Just relaying what I have seen, progression wise, over this year. He is going to be a great player imo. Haven't been as high on a Wolf since KG.

Hawkeye15
03-24-2015, 05:05 PM
Listen, I don't have any beef or bias with Wiggins, if that's what you think. If anything, I would LOVE for him to be the next great. If any team could use such a player, it's certainly the T-Wolves. Not to mention, I feel for the kid for all that **** he had to go through this past summer.

yeah I know you man, I didn't think you were attacking, or being negative at all, I respect your opinion.

Trust me on this one (I think haha), he is going to be a great player.

jerellh528
03-24-2015, 10:23 PM
Jordan clarkson lol

SeoulBeatz
03-26-2015, 01:12 PM
Nerlens has just taken over the #1 spot on NBA.com's rookie ladder. The race is heating up!

http://www.nba.com/2015/news/features/scott_howard_cooper/03/25/2014-15-rookie-ladder-week-21/index.html

STRIKERC
03-26-2015, 01:43 PM
Imagine if Parker and Embiid were healthy what this race would be like.

sixer04fan
03-26-2015, 01:50 PM
First team should look like: Clarkson, Payton, Wiggins, Mirotic, Nerlens right?

They're usually very liberal on positions, but that would work either way. Last year I believe it was 4 guards and Mason Plumlee.

SeoulBeatz
03-26-2015, 01:56 PM
First team should look like: Clarkson, Payton, Wiggins, Mirotic, Nerlens right?

They're usually very liberal on positions, but that would work either way. Last year I believe it was 4 guards and Mason Plumlee.

Seems right to me.

2-ONE-5
03-26-2015, 03:59 PM
no way Wiggins is getting 80% of these ROY votes

jerellh528
03-26-2015, 04:04 PM
Nerlens has just taken over the #1 spot on NBA.com's rookie ladder. The race is heating up!

http://www.nba.com/2015/news/features/scott_howard_cooper/03/25/2014-15-rookie-ladder-week-21/index.html

Lakers have 2 outta the top 10 currently on the ladder. Nice!

SeoulBeatz
03-26-2015, 05:00 PM
no way Wiggins is getting 80% of these ROY votes

Agreed.

I accept that wiggins will win (he'll get like 70% of the votes) but Noel has been improving every month.

Just saw on the Sixer's twitter...

"Since the All-Star break, @NerlensNoel3 ranks 1st in the NBA in blocks and 2nd in steals."

Crazy.

Chronz
03-26-2015, 06:21 PM
OK I've seen enough, Niko should be ROY and Wiggins+Noel should battle it out for #2.

kozelkid
03-27-2015, 06:16 AM
OK I've seen enough, Niko should be ROY and Wiggins+Noel should battle it out for #2.

I don't think it's even a stretch to say that he's the best Bulls big at this point. Here's a bit of a fluff piece that seems to confirm just that... http://www.sbnation.com/2015/3/26/8284937/nikola-mirotic-chicago-bulls-highlights-awkward-tom-thibodeau

But more importantly, as the article alludes, this makes Thibs' job that much more difficult as well as frustrating as a fan. On one hand, you have a DPOY who finished top 5 in MVP voting last year and an allstar starter, and then you have a rookie. Not to mention a consistent 6th man contender in Taj. At this point, the Gasol and Noah tandem has struggled because they're too slow-footed together and neither should be playing the PF position. It's a big reason why the Bulls defense is down this year. Ideally, you want to split Gasol and Noah as much as possible and have Mirotic play with either of them.

However, it's clear that Thibs is reluctant to bench veterans in favor of younger and (more importantly) better players. This was the case back when Boozer started to suck and Taj should have started. And it's the case now as well. It's a big reason the Bulls seem to start slow and in effect, Thibs ends up just playing Mirotic for long stretches of 16-18 minutes straight because of the label that comes with being a "starter." It's a far less effective move than if he were willing to start Mirotic with say Noah, and then quickly sub in Gasol for Noah and eventually Taj for Mirotic.

sixer04fan
03-27-2015, 04:54 PM
I'm just gonna leave this here:

https://twitter.com/tmoore76ers/status/581548616549961728

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CBITYqkVAAAB1n2.jpg

Historic month of March for Noel. And I don't use the word "historic" lightly.

Ezio
03-27-2015, 10:26 PM
I'm just gonna leave this here:

https://twitter.com/tmoore76ers/status/581548616549961728

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CBITYqkVAAAB1n2.jpg

Historic month of March for Noel. And I don't use the word "historic" lightly.

Most Fourth Quarter Points Per Game since March 1

Nikola Mirotic 9.5
LeBron James 8.5
Russell Westbrook 8.3
Stephen Curry 7.8
Lou Williams 7.2

SeoulBeatz
03-27-2015, 10:34 PM
I'm just gonna leave this here:

https://twitter.com/tmoore76ers/status/581548616549961728

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CBITYqkVAAAB1n2.jpg

Historic month of March for Noel. And I don't use the word "historic" lightly.

30 points and 14 boards tonight.

Kid is improving every game.

dalton749
03-27-2015, 11:24 PM
mirotic and noel have made it interesting, wiggins is no longer a guarantee imo
its helps that their minutes were limited at the beginning of the year so theyre more fresh than wiggins now though

More-Than-Most
03-28-2015, 12:18 AM
mirotic and noel have made it interesting, wiggins is no longer a guarantee imo
its helps that their minutes were limited at the beginning of the year so theyre more fresh than wiggins now though

dont think that is a good excuse over noel... dude has been playing a good bit all year... 31 minutes per game.

dalton749
03-28-2015, 01:00 AM
dont think that is a good excuse over noel... dude has been playing a good bit all year... 31 minutes per game.

wiggins has played the equivalent of 9 full 48 minute games more then noel, without missing a game, and the equivalent of 20 full games more than mirotic

when wiggins had his best strech of games back in janurary, he had played a comparable amount of minutes to what mirotic is at now

it may only be 4 mpg more, but it clearly adds up over a season, especially for a rookie (5th in minutes played)

after looking into i retract my original statement and say hes still far ahead in the race

first 25 games he was help below double-digits scoring 11 times, only 2 times since, thats pretty impressive to show that kind of consistency imo

PatsSoxKnicks
03-28-2015, 01:08 AM
I'm just gonna leave this here:

https://twitter.com/tmoore76ers/status/581548616549961728

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CBITYqkVAAAB1n2.jpg

Historic month of March for Noel. And I don't use the word "historic" lightly.

Has been really good with his rim protection as well: http://nyloncalculus.com/stats/rim-protection/

Stunner
03-28-2015, 01:18 AM
Pelicans really messed up , could have had Payton and Noel .

Holiday only played prob 50 games the last two years

FlashBolt
03-28-2015, 01:20 AM
Most Fourth Quarter Points Per Game since March 1

Nikola Mirotic 9.5
LeBron James 8.5
Russell Westbrook 8.3
Stephen Curry 7.8
Lou Williams 7.2

That means nothing.. really. Noel has been far more impressive and he's actually playing for a team that has nobody.

chitownbulls
03-28-2015, 02:16 AM
That means nothing.. really. Noel has been far more impressive and he's actually playing for a team that has nobody.

What does that have to do with anything? Mirotic has literally been the only offensive threat we have, especially when Pau isn't in the game. And he's putting up great numbers in high pressure games. You can't really say the same for Noel tbh

FlashBolt
03-28-2015, 02:26 AM
What does that have to do with anything? Mirotic has literally been the only offensive threat we have, especially when Pau isn't in the game. And he's putting up great numbers in high pressure games. You can't really say the same for Noel tbh

What does Mirotic scoring the most 4th quarter points for March have to do with anything? Noel has been breaking records. Mirotic is a 24 year old who already had NBA game from the start. Him playing this well isn't a shocker. The dude has played professionally for years now. I get that technically that still puts him as a rookie but he hasn't been doing jack for pretty much 80% of the season. Wiggins/Noel have been stellar the entire season. Stop being a homer.

dalton749
03-28-2015, 03:31 AM
What does Mirotic scoring the most 4th quarter points for March have to do with anything? Noel has been breaking records. Mirotic is a 24 year old who already had NBA game from the start. Him playing this well isn't a shocker. The dude has played professionally for years now. I get that technically that still puts him as a rookie but he hasn't been doing jack for pretty much 80% of the season. Wiggins/Noel have been stellar the entire season. Stop being a homer.

are you serious right now? mirotic has been killing it for a contending team playing along side people far more skilled than anyone on philly, and playing behind guys far more skilled than noel
the fact that he has had such a big role and is being used as a go to guy in close game situations speaks volumes

noel has been putting up some nice stat lines, but winning is the least important thing for his team and there is absolutely no talent around him to hold him back, do you know how many guys in the league could break meaningless records in that situation

the only reason nobody else puts up those "random lines that nobody else has done since whenever" is because other teams have talent, and their gameplan doesnt revolve around gambling as much as possible on defence to try and get a few steals for easy buckets because they cant score any other way

PurpleJesus
03-28-2015, 04:21 AM
Wiggins or Noel, but Wiggins.

2-ONE-5
03-28-2015, 07:35 AM
are you serious right now? mirotic has been killing it for a contending team playing along side people far more skilled than anyone on philly, and playing behind guys far more skilled than noel
the fact that he has had such a big role and is being used as a go to guy in close game situations speaks volumes

noel has been putting up some nice stat lines, but winning is the least important thing for his team and there is absolutely no talent around him to hold him back, do you know how many guys in the league could break meaningless records in that situation

the only reason nobody else puts up those "random lines that nobody else has done since whenever" is because other teams have talent, and their gameplan doesnt revolve around gambling as much as possible on defence to try and get a few steals for easy buckets because they cant score any other way

yeaaa Wins and L's means absolutely nothing for ROY voting nor should it either, this isnt the MVP award.

More-Than-Most
03-28-2015, 08:50 AM
are you serious right now? mirotic has been killing it for a contending team playing along side people far more skilled than anyone on philly, and playing behind guys far more skilled than noel
the fact that he has had such a big role and is being used as a go to guy in close game situations speaks volumes

noel has been putting up some nice stat lines, but winning is the least important thing for his team and there is absolutely no talent around him to hold him back, do you know how many guys in the league could break meaningless records in that situation

the only reason nobody else puts up those "random lines that nobody else has done since whenever" is because other teams have talent, and their gameplan doesnt revolve around gambling as much as possible on defence to try and get a few steals for easy buckets because they cant score any other way

if anybody on bad teams can do it why dont they do what Noel or Wiggins are doing? Could you imagine either with the team that Miro has and the ability to come in against backups or tired players with his skill set? come on man this argument goes both ways.

More-Than-Most
03-28-2015, 08:53 AM
Yes I am a sixer fan but please do not get it twisted... there is 0 bias here... I wanted to jerk off a gorilla when we traded holiday for Noel and you cant check my history to prove that because of how insanely smart it was and because of the talent in the draft compared to Holiday... People said are you kidding he has so much talent... they did the same thing with MCW and honestly he is gonna be a meh player at best and that will be yet another steal.

mike44
03-28-2015, 09:11 AM
I would say its Noel at this point, the guy is playing historically good defense for his age.

chi-townlove1
03-28-2015, 11:12 AM
What does that have to do with anything? Mirotic has literally been the only offensive threat we have, especially when Pau isn't in the game. And he's putting up great numbers in high pressure games. You can't really say the same for Noel tbh

What does Mirotic scoring the most 4th quarter points for March have to do with anything? Noel has been breaking records. Mirotic is a 24 year old who already had NBA game from the start. Him playing this well isn't a shocker. The dude has played professionally for years now. I get that technically that still puts him as a rookie but he hasn't been doing jack for pretty much 80% of the season. Wiggins/Noel have been stellar the entire season. Stop being a homer.


This post basically sums up your cluelessness about basketball. Like the award has anything to do with "shock" and "expectations". I keep hearing this he's played professionally over and over but really, this is the NBA. A FAR MORE TALENTED LEAGUE THAN SPAIN. That argument holds no value anymore. Whether he's 24 or 18 or 30, hrs a rookie. And age and experience mean nothing. Bottom line. That is just the fact.

effen5
03-28-2015, 04:59 PM
That means nothing.. really. Noel has been far more impressive and he's actually playing for a team that has nobody.

This makes it less impressive imo. Miro playing better than pau, noah, or Taj speaks volumes.

effen5
03-28-2015, 05:02 PM
What does Mirotic scoring the most 4th quarter points for March have to do with anything? Noel has been breaking records. Mirotic is a 24 year old who already had NBA game from the start. Him playing this well isn't a shocker. The dude has played professionally for years now. I get that technically that still puts him as a rookie but he hasn't been doing jack for pretty much 80% of the season. Wiggins/Noel have been stellar the entire season. Stop being a homer.

So if a kid didn't get drafted at 18 and played overseas came to the league a few years later and played terribly...would that shock you?

Cal827
03-28-2015, 05:40 PM
Yes I am a sixer fan but please do not get it twisted... there is 0 bias here... I wanted to jerk off a gorilla when we traded holiday for Noel and you cant check my history to prove that because of how insanely smart it was and because of the talent in the draft compared to Holiday... People said are you kidding he has so much talent... they did the same thing with MCW and honestly he is gonna be a meh player at best and that will be yet another steal.

:laugh: The Struggle is Real

Stunner
03-28-2015, 07:26 PM
Where’s the love for Nikola Mirotic?

When it comes to the Rookie of the Year award race this season, Minnesota’s Andrew Wiggins has received the majority of the headlines. Wiggins’ ascent in the rankings was helped by the early season-ending knee injury to talented Milwaukee rookie Jabari Parker and a relatively slow start by Philadelphia’s Nerlens Noel.

While Wiggins, averaging 16 points and 4.4 rebounds on the season, has been the most consistent rookie throughout the campaign there’s an ongoing trendy movement tossing Noel’s name into the Rookie of the Year discussion. Rightfully so, as Noel has proved to be a legitimate box sheet stuffer in all major categories since the All-Star break averaging 13.1 points, 10.1 rebounds and 2.8 blocks.

But hidden in all of the Noel and Wiggins talk has been the emergence of Chicago Bulls forward Nikola Mirotic during the stretch run. Unlike Noel and Wiggins, who are both on lottery bound teams, Mirotic had to bide his time and wait for an opportunity to showcase his skills on a squad with legitimate title aspirations.

Rookies rarely contribute on a large scale to franchises with their eyes set on hoisting the Larry O’Brien trophy and it seemed as if Mirotic would be destined to the same fate after averaging just 17 minutes in his first 54 appearances.

However, the NBA is undoubtedly a “next man up” league and when the Bulls suffered injuries to Derrick Rose, Joakim Noah, Taj Gibson and Jimmy Butler, Mirotic found himself being placed in a prime part of head coach Tom Thibodeau’s nightly rotation.

Since the All-Star break, Mirotic is averaging 17.3 points, seven rebounds and one block per game in 27 minutes of action. Again, rookies rarely contribute on teams poised to win 50-plus games with plans to play deep into the spring.

Further, during the month of March, Mirotic is averaging 20.6 points and 7.7 rebounds in 14 contests. On the flip side, Noel and Wiggins are also turning up the production as their regular seasons come to an end. But, Mirotic is getting it done on a banged up Bulls unit with more on the line each and every night.

Ultimately, Wiggins may have generated too much of a lead for Mirotic to overcome with a frenetic finish but it’s hard to ignore the Windy City’s future being a bit brighter with Mirotic finally hitting his NBA stride.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-am-mirotic-deserves-rookie-of-the-year-love/

effen5
03-28-2015, 07:31 PM
Where’s the love for Nikola Mirotic?

When it comes to the Rookie of the Year award race this season, Minnesota’s Andrew Wiggins has received the majority of the headlines. Wiggins’ ascent in the rankings was helped by the early season-ending knee injury to talented Milwaukee rookie Jabari Parker and a relatively slow start by Philadelphia’s Nerlens Noel.

While Wiggins, averaging 16 points and 4.4 rebounds on the season, has been the most consistent rookie throughout the campaign there’s an ongoing trendy movement tossing Noel’s name into the Rookie of the Year discussion. Rightfully so, as Noel has proved to be a legitimate box sheet stuffer in all major categories since the All-Star break averaging 13.1 points, 10.1 rebounds and 2.8 blocks.

But hidden in all of the Noel and Wiggins talk has been the emergence of Chicago Bulls forward Nikola Mirotic during the stretch run. Unlike Noel and Wiggins, who are both on lottery bound teams, Mirotic had to bide his time and wait for an opportunity to showcase his skills on a squad with legitimate title aspirations.

Rookies rarely contribute on a large scale to franchises with their eyes set on hoisting the Larry O’Brien trophy and it seemed as if Mirotic would be destined to the same fate after averaging just 17 minutes in his first 54 appearances.

However, the NBA is undoubtedly a “next man up” league and when the Bulls suffered injuries to Derrick Rose, Joakim Noah, Taj Gibson and Jimmy Butler, Mirotic found himself being placed in a prime part of head coach Tom Thibodeau’s nightly rotation.

Since the All-Star break, Mirotic is averaging 17.3 points, seven rebounds and one block per game in 27 minutes of action. Again, rookies rarely contribute on teams poised to win 50-plus games with plans to play deep into the spring.

Further, during the month of March, Mirotic is averaging 20.6 points and 7.7 rebounds in 14 contests. On the flip side, Noel and Wiggins are also turning up the production as their regular seasons come to an end. But, Mirotic is getting it done on a banged up Bulls unit with more on the line each and every night.

Ultimately, Wiggins may have generated too much of a lead for Mirotic to overcome with a frenetic finish but it’s hard to ignore the Windy City’s future being a bit brighter with Mirotic finally hitting his NBA stride.

:nod:

MonroeFAN
03-28-2015, 07:40 PM
There is A LOT of love for Mirotic in this topic dude(s). The lead both Wiggins & Noel have on him is far too great to overcome.

Not to mention his game against my Pistons which was downright disgusting. But impressive player no doubt.

Shammyguy3
03-28-2015, 07:54 PM
Its not a lazy argument at all but it actually holds merit and has been used all the time in many other arguments because context is key... Noel/Wiggins play more minutes and against starters and have to deal with their own fatigue and the fact that they are going up against the other teams best players when they are at their max and sustaining their play against that kind of pace is huge on both sides of the ball where both of those players are great both offensively and defensively.... Its a lazy argument only if you are a fan of said player sorry.

Mirotic isn't doing this against bench players and bench players strictly. You don't score so many points in not just the 4th quarter and do it only against players that cannot start in this league. Your argument truly is the lazy one.

What Noel/Wiggins has done is impressive, and since they've played more minutes per game for the year it's even more impressive to. But your argument is dismissive and ignores that Mirotic has played most of his minutes over the past 6 weeks or so against starters in the 4th quarter, and it is no coincidence that he scores a great portion of his points in the 4th quarter against starters.


If someone gave me the choice of Wiggins or Mirotic for the next 5 years, there is absolutely no chance I'm not taking Wiggins.

I'm pretty sure it's only Bulls homers that would answer differently.

I'm a Bulls fan, but not a homer. For the next 5 years I am 100% taking Mirotic because Mirotic is 24 and is far more skilled and ready to lead a team. If the question was who would I rather want for the next 10 years, then Wiggins would be the guy since in 10 years he'll be 30 and Mirotic will be 34

chitownbulls
03-28-2015, 09:45 PM
What does Mirotic scoring the most 4th quarter points for March have to do with anything? Noel has been breaking records. Mirotic is a 24 year old who already had NBA game from the start. Him playing this well isn't a shocker. The dude has played professionally for years now. I get that technically that still puts him as a rookie but he hasn't been doing jack for pretty much 80% of the season. Wiggins/Noel have been stellar the entire season. Stop being a homer.

Noel's stuffing box sheets, Mirotic's play is winning us games. Age really has nothing to do with it, if Doug McDermott came in and play this way would you also argue this? Mirotic is only one year older than our other rookie. And it'd make more sense to call me a homer if I said Mirotic should win the ROY award, but I already stated earlier in the thread that it would be Wiggins.



if anybody on bad teams can do it why dont they do what Noel or Wiggins are doing? Could you imagine either with the team that Miro has and the ability to come in against backups or tired players with his skill set? come on man this argument goes both ways.

Thing is, he's putting up most of his points in the 4th quarters, against starters, with the game on the line. The whole "Only produces against bench players" isn't an argument. Truth be told, the fact that he is out playing Gibson, Gasol, and Noah in some cases in the 4th and takes their minutes should speak volumes to what he's doing.

If he was playing 35 minutes a game on the sixers or wolves, imagine what he'd be accomplishing.

More-Than-Most
03-28-2015, 10:13 PM
Mirotic isn't doing this against bench players and bench players strictly. You don't score so many points in not just the 4th quarter and do it only against players that cannot start in this league. Your argument truly is the lazy one.

What Noel/Wiggins has done is impressive, and since they've played more minutes per game for the year it's even more impressive to. But your argument is dismissive and ignores that Mirotic has played most of his minutes over the past 6 weeks or so against starters in the 4th quarter, and it is no coincidence that he scores a great portion of his points in the 4th quarter against starters.



I'm a Bulls fan, but not a homer. For the next 5 years I am 100% taking Mirotic because Mirotic is 24 and is far more skilled and ready to lead a team. If the question was who would I rather want for the next 10 years, then Wiggins would be the guy since in 10 years he'll be 30 and Mirotic will be 34

tired starters while he is mostly fresh... Its not lazy but logical that it helps a ton. He is also extremely fresh for only playing 20 minutes a game on the year.

effen5
03-28-2015, 10:20 PM
tired starters while he is mostly fresh... Its not lazy but logical that it helps a ton. He is also extremely fresh for only playing 20 minutes a game on the year.

So you're saying he's putting these numbers up against other teams starters/all stars because he is fresh?

Ezio
03-28-2015, 10:40 PM
So you're saying he's putting these numbers up against other teams starters/all stars because he is fresh?

League better watch out cause Rose is going to be the freshest going into the playoffs then :shrug:

zn23
03-28-2015, 11:20 PM
Mirotic, right now, is a much better player than Wiggins.

We can't just give Wiggins the award based on the type of player he's going to be in 5 years. He will likely improve and surpass Mirotic in 5 years, but right now Mirotic is clearly the best rookie.

More-Than-Most
03-28-2015, 11:24 PM
Mirotic, right now, is a much better player than Wiggins.

We can't just give Wiggins the award based on the type of player he's going to be in 5 years. He will likely improve and surpass Mirotic in 5 years, but right now Mirotic is clearly the best rookie.

Noel has been all around better actually. Unless defense all of a sudden doesnt count.

sixer04fan
03-28-2015, 11:36 PM
Mirotic, right now, is a much better player than Wiggins.

We can't just give Wiggins the award based on the type of player he's going to be in 5 years. He will likely improve and surpass Mirotic in 5 years, but right now Mirotic is clearly the best rookie.

This is a ridiculous statement on several counts. Wow

effen5
03-28-2015, 11:43 PM
Agreed.

I accept that wiggins will win (he'll get like 70% of the votes) but Noel has been improving every month.

Just saw on the Sixer's twitter...

"Since the All-Star break, @NerlensNoel3 ranks 1st in the NBA in blocks and 2nd in steals."

Crazy.

"In the 19 games Mirotic has played following the All-Star Game, he's averaged 17.3 points, 6.9 rebounds and 1.1 blocks. His usage rating has skyrocketed to a robust 28.9 percent, compared to just 19.3 percent in 54 games prior to the All-Star break. Mirotic's 4.9 win shares blow away every single rookie in the league, and he's already developed a knack for clutch heroics. The Bulls' new bearded hero has averaged 7.7 points in the fourth quarter since the All-Star break, which trails only Russell Westbrook, Isaiah Thomas and LeBron James—pretty good company for a guy with 73 NBA games to his name."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2411845-ranking-the-top-10-candidates-for-nba-rookie-of-the-year/page/12

LakerShow
03-29-2015, 12:17 AM
I will go with noel, Wiggins is good, and probably win it. But i feel he gets a bit over hyped. Noel has had a year to study the nba game so that favors him. Mirotic don't really know anything about him other than he sorta looks like vlad a former Laker. :laugh2:

More-Than-Most
03-29-2015, 12:18 AM
"In the 19 games Mirotic has played following the All-Star Game, he's averaged 17.3 points, 6.9 rebounds and 1.1 blocks. His usage rating has skyrocketed to a robust 28.9 percent, compared to just 19.3 percent in 54 games prior to the All-Star break. Mirotic's 4.9 win shares blow away every single rookie in the league, and he's already developed a knack for clutch heroics. The Bulls' new bearded hero has averaged 7.7 points in the fourth quarter since the All-Star break, which trails only Russell Westbrook, Isaiah Thomas and LeBron James—pretty good company for a guy with 73 NBA games to his name."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2411845-ranking-the-top-10-candidates-for-nba-rookie-of-the-year/page/12

so pre all star doesnt count? Noel has been better all season

effen5
03-29-2015, 12:30 AM
so pre all star doesnt count? Noel has been better all season

If you read the initial quote - he quoted from the all star break. And to be frank, does beginning of the season even matter? At least post all star thats when everyone is really pushing for playoff positions.

More-Than-Most
03-29-2015, 12:39 AM
If you read the initial quote - he quoted from the all star break. And to be frank, does beginning of the season even matter? At least post all star thats when everyone is really pushing for playoff positions.

um yes pre all star counts... he had the benefit of resting while wiggins and noel were actually carrying their teams.

effen5
03-29-2015, 12:42 AM
um yes pre all star counts... he had the benefit of resting while wiggins and noel were actually carrying their teams.

Carrying their teams to a whopping 34-111 record while Niko is carrying the Bulls for a playoff push when the game actually matters which is NOW.

effen5
03-29-2015, 12:48 AM
I'm seriously confused on how Wiggins and Noel are carrying their teams...if anything they have LESS pressure because their teams suck.

Sadds The Gr8
03-29-2015, 01:17 AM
Wiggins will win pretty easily. Mirotic would've had a real shot if Taj Gibson didn't exist and eat all those minutes at the beginning of the season. Nerlens has been impressive lately, but too little too late scenario....he was really garbage on offense to start the season and ROY mainly goes to offensive players so he has no chance.

votes will be like:

70% Wiggins
28% Mirotic
2% Noel

More-Than-Most
03-29-2015, 01:17 AM
they also have no help at all while the bulls are a pretty deep team... they have more on their shoulders then a Niko has ever had... Noel and Wiggins are the teams and have no other help or options and have to play 30 plus minutes a game where again niko comes in off the bench and goes against tired players or bench players... He has been great but being on a winning team when you arent the star is completely different when it comes to things being on your shoulders.... He has had a great post all star but you cant just forget about pre all star and noel has had just as a good or better of a post all star because again he plays both sides of the ball and is spectacular defensively.

More-Than-Most
03-29-2015, 01:19 AM
Wiggins will win pretty easily. Mirotic would've had a real shot if Taj Gibson didn't exist and eat all those minutes at the beginning of the season. Nerlens has been impressive lately, but too little too late scenario....he was really garbage on offense to start the season and ROY mainly goes to offensive players so he has no chance.

votes will be like:

70% Wiggins
28% Mirotic
2% Noel

Niko wasnt that much above noel offensive all year while noel defensively has blown them out of the water.

Sadds The Gr8
03-29-2015, 01:22 AM
Niko wasnt that much above noel offensive all year while noel defensively has blown them out of the water.

Niko's streak has stood out way more than Noel's and like I said, people don't care about defense for ROY. Being on the Sixers will hurt Noel because the media hates them, even though that's unfair it's the truth. Yes MCW won last year while being on the Sixers but that was by default because last year's class sucked ballz. Ppl will just look at per game stats and give it to Wiggins.

effen5
03-29-2015, 01:30 AM
they also have no help at all while the bulls are a pretty deep team... they have more on their shoulders then a Niko has ever had... Noel and Wiggins are the teams and have no other help or options and have to play 30 plus minutes a game where again niko comes in off the bench and goes against tired players or bench players... He has been great but being on a winning team when you arent the star is completely different when it comes to things being on your shoulders.... He has had a great post all star but you cant just forget about pre all star and noel has had just as a good or better of a post all star because again he plays both sides of the ball and is spectacular defensively.

Noel and Wiggins has no pressure because they are on a losing team...there is a lot more pressure to perform when you are on a winning team and when Niko is performing better than his leaders in Paul Noah and Taj? That is saying something. And to be honest, the bulls really don't have a star...Noah's taken a step back, Derrick obviously no where near his all star/MVP level, and Paul is just the amazing vet. Niko has taken the Bulls on his back the last 20 games to make sure this team is actually WINNING.

More-Than-Most
03-29-2015, 01:41 AM
Niko's streak has stood out way more than Noel's and like I said, people don't care about defense for ROY. Being on the Sixers will hurt Noel because the media hates them, even though that's unfair it's the truth. Yes MCW won last year while being on the Sixers but that was by default because last year's class sucked ballz. Ppl will just look at per game stats and give it to Wiggins.

yea i dont disagree but thats why i think wiggins will win it.

More-Than-Most
03-29-2015, 01:45 AM
Noel and Wiggins has no pressure because they are on a losing team...there is a lot more pressure to perform when you are on a winning team and when Niko is performing better than his leaders in Paul Noah and Taj? That is saying something. And to be honest, the bulls really don't have a star...Noah's taken a step back, Derrick obviously no where near his all star/MVP level, and Paul is just the amazing vet. Niko has taken the Bulls on his back the last 20 games to make sure this team is actually WINNING.

there is always pressure on these young guys nomatter what.... Noel going in knowing he has 0 help and doing what he is doing and the same as wiggins is far more impressive... They legit have 0 people they can count on... Your team might not have a star but they are a very deep team. I am taking nothing away from niko because he has been beast in march but again you need to factor in minutes/entire season/roster talent and of course down the stretch and winning....but winning to me is the least of it because that is a team effort... Niko has a team around him and the other 2 dont. Teams are going in to stop Noel and wiggins... That is their game plan and yet they still do what they do... You honestly think teams game plan just to stop niko? Not possible when you have to worry about 5 other really good players on the bulls team.

effen5
03-29-2015, 02:38 AM
there is always pressure on these young guys nomatter what.... Noel going in knowing he has 0 help and doing what he is doing and the same as wiggins is far more impressive... They legit have 0 people they can count on... Your team might not have a star but they are a very deep team. I am taking nothing away from niko because he has been beast in march but again you need to factor in minutes/entire season/roster talent and of course down the stretch and winning....but winning to me is the least of it because that is a team effort... Niko has a team around him and the other 2 dont. Teams are going in to stop Noel and wiggins... That is their game plan and yet they still do what they do... You honestly think teams game plan just to stop niko? Not possible when you have to worry about 5 other really good players on the bulls team.

Outside of Pau Gasol, in the month of March, name me 3 other Bulls players that had a decent March.

In regards to pressure - do you think anybody on the Knicks right now has any pressure on them? Hell no. They are just waiting for the season to be over, same with Philly same with Minnesota.

More-Than-Most
03-29-2015, 03:01 AM
Outside of Pau Gasol, in the month of March, name me 3 other Bulls players that had a decent March.

In regards to pressure - do you think anybody on the Knicks right now has any pressure on them? Hell no. They are just waiting for the season to be over, same with Philly same with Minnesota.

the entire bulls team over anything that wiggins and noel have... that is what your missing... When you play the sixers you stop noel... when you play the wolves you stop wiggins... They still dominate while being the center point of the game plan... Nobody actually worries about Niko over the entire bulls team and that helps him a ton on top of being extremely fresh because he has played 33 percent less than noel and wiggins

kozelkid
03-29-2015, 06:12 AM
Noel has been all around better actually. Unless defense all of a sudden doesnt count.
As if you have any clue on Mirotic's defensive impact aside from generalizing based on white, euro stigma.