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View Full Version : Spurs only got 33 million committed for next season: who should they target?



JasonJohnHorn
03-08-2015, 11:00 AM
The Spurs haven't been this far under the cap since I can remember. The cap will be somewhere around 70 million next year (please feel free to correct me on that).

That means that the Spurs will be over 35 mill under the cap. Who should they target?


Top choice would obviously be Marc Gasol. Pop would be the ideal coach for him, and should TD stay another season or two, it would be great to have him and Gasol in the front court together and Splitter coming off the bench (though the Spurs may have to give him away if they hope to sign Gasol and keep Leonard).



What other players might be ideal for the Spurs to target?

Goose17
03-08-2015, 11:16 AM
In terms of unrestricted FAs they could make a run at Wes, Amir Johnson, Psycho T, Wright, Stuckey, Bass or Thornton.

They could make offers to Millsap or Gasol but I doubt they leave a top 3/4 team for San Antonio in its current state where they could be close to entering a transition stage.

Goose17
03-08-2015, 11:18 AM
Isn't Lopez an FA?

I think someone will give him the max. There's going to be a bunch of non-max players getting the max or close to it this offseason. There is more teams with max type space than there is max deal FAs.

D-Leethal
03-08-2015, 11:21 AM
I think they make a run at Gasol but if they don't get him I think they resign Kawhi to the max he is gonna get and sign a couple tier-C FAs in the mold of the Brandon Wrights and call it a day, go for something bigger in 2016. They are a team that preserves flexibility and isn't gonna spend all their cap and go over it for Kawhi for the sake of doing so.

IndyRealist
03-08-2015, 11:52 AM
The cap would have to jump 10.5% to get to $70M next year, it jumped 7.5% this year. $67-68M is probably a more reasonable number.

Goose17
03-08-2015, 11:55 AM
The cap would have to jump 10.5% to get to $70M next year, it jumped 7.5% this year. $67-68M is probably a more reasonable number.

Yeah most "experts" are predicting 67 million

IndyRealist
03-08-2015, 12:00 PM
Let's also not forget who the Spurs lose to drop to $33M in salary: Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, Danny Green, Marco Belinelli, Aron Baynes, Jeff Ayres, Cory Joseph, Kawhi Leonard, and Matt Bonner. Ayres and Bonner are not rotational players, but the rest are, including 3 starters. They will bring back Duncan if he doesn't retire, proabably at around $8-10M. They should bring back Green, Belinelli, and Baynes, and it's going to be for more than their combined $10M. Kawhi will get max, simply because in a year it will be an middling contract and that's the kind of thing the Spurs do. That's almost all of your cap space right there.

nycericanguy
03-08-2015, 02:21 PM
^ yea its misleading to say they have $35m in cap, Kwahi's cap hold alone will be close to $7m and they are not going to renounce him... and if they resign Duncan, Green, & Manu that would pretty much eat up the remaining cap... not to mention Joseph has a $5m cap hold if they want to keep him.

king4day
03-08-2015, 10:11 PM
^ yea its misleading to say they have $35m in cap, Kwahi's cap hold alone will be close to $7m and they are not going to renounce him... and if they resign Duncan, Green, & Manu that would pretty much eat up the remaining cap... not to mention Joseph has a $5m cap hold if they want to keep him.

This is what I was thinking. Leonard will get max but if they're willing to go over the cap, they can sign him last after getting everyone else they plan to.

JasonJohnHorn
03-08-2015, 11:15 PM
There are a few guys going out, but if TD takes a discount, Leonard gets a max deal, and they sign Gasol, I dont think keeping Green would be a big deal and Manu likely won't be coming back after this season.

tredigs
03-09-2015, 12:30 AM
There are a few guys going out, but if TD takes a discount, Leonard gets a max deal, and they sign Gasol, I dont think keeping Green would be a big deal and Manu likely won't be coming back after this season.


Even if Duncan+Ginobili retire, they have 50 million on the books (assuming Kawhi signs with them). That's only TP/Splitter/Mills/Kawhi/Joseph/Anderson/Diaw. 7 players... still need to fill 8 more spots, and they're going to want to keep Danny Green for sure who's going to cost 5+ million (55+ million now with a cap at 68). So even if they filled out the rest of the roster with league min contracts (let's say a lowball of 13 mil for 7 players), that's already 68 million and at 100% of the cap. Obviously they couldn't afford the ~20 mil that a Gasol or LMA will command. As far as Duncan staying and they also get Gasol? Impossible.

matt800
03-09-2015, 12:38 AM
A lot of teams have space. Portland has even less committed money.

tredigs
03-09-2015, 12:39 AM
And looking at my rundown there, can they even keep Duncan + Green? If Duncan wants say 8-10 million a year and Green wants 6, they'll already be way over the cap even if he's surrounded by ultra cheap contracts. 50mil + DGreen + Duncan is already easily 63 mil and they'd still have 6 players to sign. I guess they could get a bunch of 1-2 mil guys and only go over to 70-75 million on the 68 mil soft cap, but it's not going to be their strongest roster. And that's assuming no Ginobili.

kobe4thewinbang
03-09-2015, 01:58 AM
They should trade Green or let him go.
Hopefully Parker has a healthy year next season.
His new contract is not looking so good now.
Kawhi deserves the money, but he needs to improve too.

I think they should go after some good working guys that aren't getting to shine on other teams. They need more post presence. They're shooting too many 3's.

JasonJohnHorn
03-09-2015, 09:56 AM
A lot of teams have space. Portland has even less committed money.


Portland doesn't have Greg Popovich.

JasonJohnHorn
03-09-2015, 10:06 AM
Even if Duncan+Ginobili retire, they have 50 million on the books (assuming Kawhi signs with them). That's only TP/Splitter/Mills/Kawhi/Joseph/Anderson/Diaw. 7 players... still need to fill 8 more spots, and they're going to want to keep Danny Green for sure who's going to cost 5+ million (55+ million now with a cap at 68). So even if they filled out the rest of the roster with league min contracts (let's say a lowball of 13 mil for 7 players), that's already 68 million and at 100% of the cap. Obviously they couldn't afford the ~20 mil that a Gasol or LMA will command. As far as Duncan staying and they also get Gasol? Impossible.

They are allowed to go over the cpa with Vet-min contracts. In 2010, nobody said: Miami can't sign LBJ, Wade and Bosh, that would only give them 8 million to fill out the rest of the roster.

Obviously chasing after Gasol means letting other players go, but are you really going to suggest that keeping Danny Green instead of signing a vet-min replacement for him is more important to the team than picking up a guy like Gasol or another big-name free agent?

Splitter is only making 8 mil a year, so trading him would be easy if it meant opening up cap space for a C like Gasol.

Guys like Bonner... their' only going to be making the vet min, so it's not like they need to reserve his Bird rights to keep him.

As for Kawhi.... he's not playing particularly well this season: his FG and 3p% are both down. He's still as good defensively ans hid rebounding has improved, but it's not like it would be hard to sign him, Gasol and keep Duncan. As for the rest of the guys hitting free agency....

You are trying all their money up in a collection of second tier players. Why would any GM in their right mind do that? Do you think Pat Riley said: You know what... I'm no going to sign Chris Bosh, just Wade and LBJ. I got to save the rest of that for the other 10 roster spots. Of course not. You bring in the best talent, and then go over the cap with vet min contracts.

Considering that talented players like Okafor, Dalembert, and Nate Robinson are or were unemployed, and that ever season there are any number of aging vets who take the vet min., its not like it would be impossible to fill out the remaining roster spots.


They have cap space. A lot of it. All they have on the books is 33 million, which leaves about 35 million open... if Duncan returns at about 8 million, that leaves them with 27 million..if Leonard returns for 10 (which seems reasonable) they have 17 million, but even if Gasol wants more, let Leonard walk or trade Splitter for a second round pick.

If GM's approach free agency the way you are suggesting the Spurs should, nobody would improve.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
03-09-2015, 11:12 AM
I thought luxury tax threshold is $80M next season? Couldn't Spurs sign their own guys last? Go after the big fish first? Be kinda odd to see Spurs go after Gasol though. Spurs been known to farm their own players through draft. Then the occasional trades.

D-Leethal
03-09-2015, 11:15 AM
I think they let Green and Bellinelli go. Seems when it comes time to pay their role players an increase in salary, they let them walk, refill the holes in the roster with cheaper talent that have similar skillsets, rinse, repeat.

monty77
03-09-2015, 12:40 PM
They should re-sign Duncan, Green and Lenard, after that I donít think they have a lot of Money in order to sign another star player, but there a couple of interesting players in the market next summer who they could try to sign if they want to begin rebuilding.

This is the professional team which have win most game in the last 20 years, and Popovic and Parker could be enough to attract good players. If Duncan re-sign one year at least, he could play along with Monroe and teach him some important aspects of the game. Greg will never be as good player as Duncan, overall as defender, but could be a decent replacement.

They are lack of big men in the roster because Duncan and Diaw are too old, and Splitter hasnít shown the potential everybody expects. San Antonio is not a big market, and maybe they will suffer when Manu and Tim retire, just like Thunders if Durant leaves, so they should be aggressive next summer for the purpose of avoid to become a transition team.

Splitter-Monroe-Green-Leonard-Parker plus Duncan (one year at least) and Mills plus rookies and sophomores should be enough to be a second round team in the west conference. It is clear that the best option would be Marc Gasol, but he is a grizzly, I donít imagine him doing the same thing his brother did, because he choose Memphis before NBA and this is not already a loser team.


In the coming years we are going to discover if Popovic is definitively one of the best coaches in the NBA history, because it will be great to find out what he is able to do without Duncan and Ginobili in the team. It will be something similar to Sloan in the Jazz without Stockton and Malone. I bet new Spurs will score even more than actual team, with younger players.

nycericanguy
03-09-2015, 01:00 PM
I thought luxury tax threshold is $80M next season? Couldn't Spurs sign their own guys last? Go after the big fish first? Be kinda odd to see Spurs go after Gasol though. Spurs been known to farm their own players through draft. Then the occasional trades.

not really... in order to do that you have to keep the players caphold on your cap.

It would only really help them with Lenoard because his cap hold will only be around $7m, whereas he'll likely get $15m per year. so as long as they dont renounce him and reserve him at $7m on their cap, they can then sign him at the end and go over the cap.

JasonJohnHorn
03-09-2015, 03:52 PM
not really... in order to do that you have to keep the players caphold on your cap.

It would only really help them with Lenoard because his cap hold will only be around $7m, whereas he'll likely get $15m per year. so as long as they dont renounce him and reserve him at $7m on their cap, they can then sign him at the end and go over the cap.

This.
Spot on. The thing is, before signign Leonard, keeping his rights would only take up a certain amount of space, so if they opt to keep his rights, sign Duncan for 8 mil, that leave over 20 million in cap space, more than enough to sign Gasol.

At that point Green can decided if he wants to take a bit of a cut to stay with them, but they'll have Duncan and Gasol in the front court with Leonard.... impressive line-up, and then Patty Mills and Tony Parker a the point... the only hole would be shooting guard, and there will be guys who will take the vet min that can fill that spot, plus they can draft one.


They are in a really good spot cap wise this year. People hung up on them keeping Green when they can go after the likes of Gasol just don't get it. Team let free agents walk to sign up grades all the time. It's not like the Heat were like: How are we going to keep Michael Beasley if we sign LeBron James? Besides, if the Spurs do pick up Gasol and want to keep Green, they can just trade Splitter for future consideration... lots of teams want him. He's only making 8 mil and he's got good fundamentals and is great at setting picks.


Bonner can just sign for the vet min; nobody is going to be offering him much, and he only works well in Pop's system.

Raps18-19 Champ
03-09-2015, 04:01 PM
Gasol is the obvious choice if Pop and Duncan are still there. If not, Aldridge or Love.

tredigs
03-09-2015, 05:33 PM
JJH can you lay out a potential roster for them that includes a 6+ year vet max with $ amounts so I can see what we're looking at through your position?

JasonJohnHorn
03-09-2015, 08:33 PM
JJH can you lay out a potential roster for them that includes a 6+ year vet max with $ amounts so I can see what we're looking at through your position?

Take a look at the 2011 Heat. They got to the finals.

The Heat spent their ENTIRE cap on four player and filled out the rest of the roster with rookie contracts and vet mins and made the finals.


It isn't complicated. I'm not sure why you think the Spurs being able to bring in a max-contract free agent is so crazy, and that it would be impossible to fill out a roster with 6 vet min contracts when the Heat had to give out TWELVE such contracts to fill out their conference champion roster in 2011.

You have to have a short memory not to recall that. You've been around here longer that than tredigs.

tredigs
03-09-2015, 08:49 PM
Take a look at the 2011 Heat. They got to the finals.

The Heat spent their ENTIRE cap on four player and filled out the rest of the roster with rookie contracts and vet mins and made the finals.


It isn't complicated. I'm not sure why you think the Spurs being able to bring in a max-contract free agent is so crazy, and that it would be impossible to fill out a roster with 6 vet min contracts when the Heat had to give out TWELVE such contracts to fill out their conference champion roster in 2011.

You have to have a short memory not to recall that. You've been around here longer that than tredigs.

OK it's not complicated, so do you mind just fleshing it out so I can see the #'s?

nycericanguy
03-09-2015, 09:05 PM
This.
Spot on. The thing is, before signign Leonard, keeping his rights would only take up a certain amount of space, so if they opt to keep his rights, sign Duncan for 8 mil, that leave over 20 million in cap space, more than enough to sign Gasol.

At that point Green can decided if he wants to take a bit of a cut to stay with them, but they'll have Duncan and Gasol in the front court with Leonard.... impressive line-up, and then Patty Mills and Tony Parker a the point... the only hole would be shooting guard, and there will be guys who will take the vet min that can fill that spot, plus they can draft one.


They are in a really good spot cap wise this year. People hung up on them keeping Green when they can go after the likes of Gasol just don't get it. Team let free agents walk to sign up grades all the time. It's not like the Heat were like: How are we going to keep Michael Beasley if we sign LeBron James? Besides, if the Spurs do pick up Gasol and want to keep Green, they can just trade Splitter for future consideration... lots of teams want him. He's only making 8 mil and he's got good fundamentals and is great at setting picks.


Bonner can just sign for the vet min; nobody is going to be offering him much, and he only works well in Pop's system.

not really, under your scenario, assuming they let every free agent they have go except for Kwahi & Duncan, and that Duncan would take just $8m, and they renounce the rights to Joseph, even in that case they would have roughly 12m in cap space after you account for cap holds and their 1st rounder.

JasonJohnHorn
03-09-2015, 10:03 PM
not really, under your scenario, assuming they let every free agent they have go except for Kwahi & Duncan, and that Duncan would take just $8m, and they renounce the rights to Joseph, even in that case they would have roughly 12m in cap space after you account for cap holds and their 1st rounder.

The cap is expected to be at 68 million
-33 = 34
-8 for TD =
26
-7 for Leonard
=19

They can trade picks, or they can trade Splitter if they are bringing in Gasol.


The math is not complicated.

JasonJohnHorn
03-09-2015, 10:13 PM
OK it's not complicated, so do you mind just fleshing it out so I can see the #'s?


I don't have a crystal ball to determine who's available and whose not. How would anybody be able to see that far into the future?

You bring in the talent, the vets chasing a ring follow.

You want me to start guessing whether or not Nate Robinson will be their best option? What teams will offer Ellis and Jamal Crawford? If Manu will take the vet min for one more run? If JR Smith is going to have options? Or Foye? Or Singler? Maybe the swing a trade with OCK is Enes Kanter goes elsewhere and they need a center, so to clear cap space they send out Splitter and take back Novak. The Okafor or Dalembert sign for the vet min. Or Larry Sanders decides he wants to play basketball.

You realize your question requires a mirror ball.

If you want to understand the math, all you need to know is that if TD signs for 8 million, they can keep Leonard's rights by saving 7 mil, and then have 19 mil to offer Gasol (if the cap is at 68 mil as it is expected to be). Maybe that's not enough to Gasol, maybe Leonard doens't feel like signing with the Spurs (he's unrestricted) as which point they may have even more space.

How will they fill it? Who knows. There are a number of shooting guards this year that will be free agents that may or may not get interest from other teams. It is impossible to tell what kind of deals the top tier free agents will sign, and what kind of players will be left over with no other options but the vet min, and what other teams will look like the best prospects.

All I know is that the Spurs, for the first time since 2003, have a boat load of cap space, they have the best coach in the game, and they have a core of vets with championship experience, and that would be tempting for a talent like Gasol and vets who haven't yet won and aren't going to be getting any more than the vet min.


You seem like a smart fan most of the time. Why is this concept for difficult for you to wrap your head around? This is how the Heat built their roster the last four years and they got to the finals every time.

tredigs
03-09-2015, 10:22 PM
^You're saying only $7 mil of Kawhi's contract will be on their books?

And stop being so defensive. I'm asking simple questions trying to understand the thread you started.

HeatFan
03-09-2015, 10:26 PM
Gasol is the obvious choice if Pop and Duncan are still there. If not, Aldridge or Love.

I don't see Love as a guy that could co-exist with Pop. Pop needs guys that take his b******* attitude and accept it as for their good. Love seems like a D***. Aldridge on the other hand, is very coachable and Pop would get the best out of him. Only problem child I can remember working on the Spurs was Stephen Jackson, and even he had to leave eventually.

JasonJohnHorn
03-09-2015, 10:30 PM
^You're saying only $7 mil of Kawhi's contract will be on their books?

And stop being so defensive. I'm asking simple questions trying to understand the thread you started.

If they want to retain his rights, they need to reserve 7 million for him, but they are allowed to sign him for more.

If they sign him to 14 mil per, then he counts are 14 mil per, but they exercise his Bird rights, they need to reserve 7 mil, they can sign somebody else, and then go over the cap. I'm not sure how the league arrives at the number, but to retain a player's Bird rights, you have to reserve a certain amount of more, and I believe in increases with experience. I think guys coming off a rookie contract its 7 mil for some reason, but if you have a vet coming off a contract, like Wade or LBJ, I think you have to reserve whatever they were making the previous season. So if a guy is making 15 mil, you have to reserve 15 mil to keep his Bird rights, but if you have 30 mil in cap space, you cna spend 15 mil on other players and then got over the cap and sign your with Bird right to 20 mil.

tredigs
03-09-2015, 10:43 PM
OK, so they have to reserve 7 and they could then sign a 6+ year vet like LMA or Gasol for the max (30% of cap which equates to north of $20 mil). No reason to think those guys take a pay cut, and then you'd have to take on the rest of Kawhi's contract (10 million since he has already shown he won't take a paycut and he will absolutely receive the max... which for him is 25% of the cap... so 17 million per @68 mil. Maybe they can structure it so that it's back-loaded and he only gets 13 mil in year 1 and 20 mil at the end, but that's still a big hti). Then they'd have to fill out the rest of the roster while already being 6 to 10+ mil over the cap if my math is right.

I don't see how they're not going to have to do a lot of wheeling and dealing to make this happen. As is, I'm not seeing the scenario where they can keep Duncan+Kawhi and sign an LMA/Gasol/Love, etc without going way over. And that's a team that won't have Ginobili/Green.

nycericanguy
03-09-2015, 11:04 PM
The cap is expected to be at 68 million
-33 = 34
-8 for TD =
26
-7 for Leonard
=19

They can trade picks, or they can trade Splitter if they are bringing in Gasol.


The math is not complicated.

Cap is projected at 66.5m

Duncan -8
Tp - 13.4
Splitter 8.5
Diaw 7.5
Mills 3.2
Leonard 7m hold
Kyle 1.1m

= 48.7m

5 cap holds equal 2.5m

1st rounder 1m

= 52.2m = 14.3m cap space.

sure if they also trade Splitter for nothing then they could get MAX cap... but alot of teams could get a max player if they shed their roster like you are suggesting.

So what you're basically saying is IF Duncan takes 8m, if SA lets Green, Marco, Manu, Joseph, Bonner, Ayres all go AND trade Splitter for NOTHING, then yes they could have room to offer a max deal.

tredigs
03-09-2015, 11:11 PM
They've got 5 guys under contract for about 34 million:

1. TP = 13.5
2. Thiago = 8.5
3. Diaw = 7.5
4. Mills = 3.2
5. Anderso = 1.1

That's no Duncan, Ginobili, Green, Kawhi, Belli, Baynes, Joseph, etc.

So, let's say they put a Birds Rights 7 mil hold on Kawhi and sign Gasol for 20 mil. Now we're at 61. Now add in Duncan's 8 mil and we're at 69. Allows for one MLE of something like 5 mil, putting them at 74 million with 7 roster spots left to fill and not counting the rest of Kawhi's contract. Add in 6 vet min 1mil+ contracts + another 1 mil+ for their 1st rounder and we're at 85 mil. Now tack on the rest of Kawhi's contract and we're closing in on 93 million.

In a scenario where Duncan retires and is replaced by another vet min? Still at 86 mil. Trade Splitter for nothing? I still have them at 78 million.

I see no scenario of signing a max contract.

JasonJohnHorn
03-10-2015, 01:05 AM
So what you're basically saying is IF Duncan takes 8m, if SA lets Green, Marco, Manu, Joseph, Bonner, Ayres all go AND trade Splitter for NOTHING, then yes they could have room to offer a max deal.

Their committed salary for next year is 33 + 7 hold for Leonard, + 8-10 mil for TD leaves about 18-20 mil.

Manu is likely retiring. Bonner will likely resign for the vet min. Joseph, Ayres and Green are not irreplaceable.

Again, I point to Miami. You guys are all hung up on them keeping players that are replaceable with vet min deals.

Do you think Pat Riley sat around the table thinking: I'd like to sign LBJ and Bosh, but how will I keep Rafer Alston, Michael Beasley, Dequan Cook and Quinetin Richardson? Of course not.


Look... if the Spurs got a shot at trading Green, Joseph, Ayres and Manu for Gasol, would they take it? Of course. So why wouldn't they let those same players walk in free agency if they had a deal lined up with Gasol?

How much will Duncan ask for? Well, given that he took 10 mil the last two years when he could have taken 15-20 (like Shaq did), it is likely he'll take a bit of a cut if it means bringing in a player like Gasol. That is not unreasonable. He's been taking pay cuts for the last two seasons.

33+7+8= 48

68-48= 20

20 mil = a max deal

Of 66.5 (as you say) - 48 - 18.5
Still a max deal.


And that is KEEPING Splitter, who they could trade if Gasol is coming in to put a hold on Green if he is that important.

If you were Miami's GM in 2010, they wouldn't have been to the finals once in the last four years.


What is so complicated about this?

JasonJohnHorn
03-10-2015, 01:08 AM
They've got 5 guys under contract for about 34 million:

1. TP = 13.5
2. Thiago = 8.5
3. Diaw = 7.5
4. Mills = 3.2
5. Anderso = 1.1

That's no Duncan, Ginobili, Green, Kawhi, Belli, Baynes, Joseph, etc.

So, let's say they put a Birds Rights 7 mil hold on Kawhi and sign Gasol for 20 mil. Now we're at 61. Now add in Duncan's 8 mil and we're at 69. Allows for one MLE of something like 5 mil, putting them at 74 million with 7 roster spots left to fill and not counting the rest of Kawhi's contract. Add in 6 vet min 1mil+ contracts + another 1 mil+ for their 1st rounder and we're at 85 mil. Now tack on the rest of Kawhi's contract and we're closing in on 93 million.

In a scenario where Duncan retires and is replaced by another vet min? Still at 86 mil. Trade Splitter for nothing? I still have them at 78 million.

I see no scenario of signing a max contract.

The max player I'm talking about IS Gasol. Your math accounted for his contract.

tredigs
03-10-2015, 01:14 AM
Their committed salary for next year is 33 + 7 hold for Leonard, + 8-10 mil for TD leaves about 18-20 mil.

Manu is likely retiring. Bonner will likely resign for the vet min. Joseph, Ayres and Green are not irreplaceable.

Again, I point to Miami. You guys are all hung up on them keeping players that are replaceable with vet min deals.

Do you think Pat Riley sat around the table thinking: I'd like to sign LBJ and Bosh, but how will I keep Rafer Alston, Michael Beasley, Dequan Cook and Quinetin Richardson? Of course not.


Look... if the Spurs got a shot at trading Green, Joseph, Ayres and Manu for Gasol, would they take it? Of course. So why wouldn't they let those same players walk in free agency if they had a deal lined up with Gasol?

How much will Duncan ask for? Well, given that he took 10 mil the last two years when he could have taken 15-20 (like Shaq did), it is likely he'll take a bit of a cut if it means bringing in a player like Gasol. That is not unreasonable. He's been taking pay cuts for the last two seasons.

33+7+8= 48

68-48= 20

20 mil = a max deal

Of 66.5 (as you say) - 48 - 18.5
Still a max deal.


And that is KEEPING Splitter, who they could trade if Gasol is coming in to put a hold on Green if he is that important.

If you were Miami's GM in 2010, they wouldn't have been to the finals once in the last four years.


What is so complicated about this?
What's complicated (unless I'm missing something) is that you're not adding the other 8-10 mil they still have to pay Kawhi for his max, or the other 7 players they need to add to the roster (that even as vet mins will cost >10 mil). They're already at the salary cap max. You think they're going 13-22 mil over? 13 is if they trade Splitter for nothing.

I guess with Green/Belli/Joseph/Duncan/Ginobili/Splitter all replaced with min contracts the math adds up. But that team isn't contending for ****.

MrfadeawayJB
03-10-2015, 02:03 AM
Do people actually believe Marc is leaving memphis?

tredigs
03-10-2015, 02:12 AM
Do people actually believe Marc is leaving memphis?

Hell no, especially with their whole squad in tact. But since his name was brought up I used it as the price point for what they'll need to pay a 6+ year max vet.

nycericanguy
03-10-2015, 09:37 AM
Their committed salary for next year is 33 + 7 hold for Leonard, + 8-10 mil for TD leaves about 18-20 mil.

Manu is likely retiring. Bonner will likely resign for the vet min. Joseph, Ayres and Green are not irreplaceable.

Again, I point to Miami. You guys are all hung up on them keeping players that are replaceable with vet min deals.

Do you think Pat Riley sat around the table thinking: I'd like to sign LBJ and Bosh, but how will I keep Rafer Alston, Michael Beasley, Dequan Cook and Quinetin Richardson? Of course not.


Look... if the Spurs got a shot at trading Green, Joseph, Ayres and Manu for Gasol, would they take it? Of course. So why wouldn't they let those same players walk in free agency if they had a deal lined up with Gasol?

How much will Duncan ask for? Well, given that he took 10 mil the last two years when he could have taken 15-20 (like Shaq did), it is likely he'll take a bit of a cut if it means bringing in a player like Gasol. That is not unreasonable. He's been taking pay cuts for the last two seasons.

33+7+8= 48

68-48= 20

20 mil = a max deal

Of 66.5 (as you say) - 48 - 18.5
Still a max deal.


And that is KEEPING Splitter, who they could trade if Gasol is coming in to put a hold on Green if he is that important.

If you were Miami's GM in 2010, they wouldn't have been to the finals once in the last four years.


What is so complicated about this?

you dont understand the cap or cap holds or minimum roster holds.

JasonJohnHorn
03-10-2015, 01:16 PM
What's complicated (unless I'm missing something) is that you're not adding the other 8-10 mil they still have to pay Kawhi for his max, or the other 7 players they need to add to the roster (that even as vet mins will cost >10 mil). They're already at the salary cap max. You think they're going 13-22 mil over? 13 is if they trade Splitter for nothing.

I guess with Green/Belli/Joseph/Duncan/Ginobili/Splitter all replaced with min contracts the math adds up. But that team isn't contending for ****.

Look... do you think keeping Green, Bellin, Josep and Aryes is more important than signing a guy like Gasol? Sure.. if they aren't in a position to sign Gasol, they might as well keep those guys, but if they want to improve the team, they need to use that cap space to sign a free agent.


If Pat Riley used your approach, he would have not signed LBJ and Bosh so that he could put holds on Rafer Alston and Michael Beasely. Is Green good? sure. Is he worth passing up on Gasol? No.

I don't know how many times I have to go over this. They have 33 committed and need to put a 7 mil hold on Leonard. If TD only signs for 8 an the cap is betweeen 68-70 mil, that gives them 18-20 mil to bring in somebody like Gasol. That means letting Green, Belli, Joseph walk, yes. If you want to think in terms of small potatoes, then yes, they won't sign Gasol, but that would be like Riley passing up on Bosh and LBJ to re-sign a bunch of chumps that only got him 40+ wins instead of a conference title.


As for the Leonard.... until they sign him, holding onto his Bird rights only takes up a certain amount of space. Once they've signed Gasol, they can go over the cap to keep him, but they do have to reserve a certain amount to retain his rights. Though he might end up signing for 15 mil, until they do so, retaining his Bird rights will only count for about 7 million against the cap. Afterwords, it will count for whatever he ends up signing for, so they could fall into luxury tax range, but that is the cost of building a winner.


They have space and could sign Gasol if he is interested.

JasonJohnHorn
03-10-2015, 01:25 PM
For those who need clarification above what I've outlined, please check these links out, because I'm starting to think people are just trolling me at this point:

http://fansided.com/2015/03/03/nba-rumors-spurs-will-first-team-offer-marc-gasol-contract/
http://www.thescore.com/nba/news/633424
http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-am-the-2015-free-agent-wish-list/


"Leonard carries a cap hold of $7.235 million, so even if the Spurs give him a max deal, they can do that last and exceed the cap.

The big challenge for the Spurs is the status of Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili, who both carry big cap holds: $15.542 million for Duncan and $10.5 million for Ginobilli.

Other notables in the cap hold department are Danny Green ($7.647m), Marco Belinelli ($3.735m) and Cory Joseph ($5.058m). In terms of guaranteed money, the Spurs have $34,159 million. So the questions for the Spurs is who stays and who goes as it relates to usable space?"

Again, if Ducan signs for less than his cap hold, then only the salary that he signs will count. Is Manu retires, which seems likely, that is not an issue. Meaning that letting Bellin, Joseph and Green go will given them the space to sign Gasol (or another max player).

If they know they will be picking up Gasol, they can ship out Splitter for future consideration to retain Green.

Bruno
03-10-2015, 03:46 PM
Leonard is priority #1 for the Spurs. expect the Knicks and Lakers to offer Leonard max offer sheets, just so SA has to match. no more discounts, not in an era with a 90M salary cap.

JasonJohnHorn
03-10-2015, 05:49 PM
Leonard is priority #1 for the Spurs. expect the Knicks and Lakers to offer Leonard max offer sheets, just so SA has to match. no more discounts, not in an era with a 90M salary cap.

I'm not sure the Knicks would be interested since they already have a SF they are paying over 20 million a seasons. That would be an awfully expensive SF rotation.

The Lakers maybe, but Leonard is a glue guy, not a franchise player. I think they will be more interested in throwing a boat load of cash at Kevin Love or LMA, since they need a legit first option on offense to start rebuilding.

Seizabmc
03-11-2015, 08:22 PM
I think Marc G would be a perfect fit for the spurs!!!

Jeffy25
03-11-2015, 09:17 PM
They should probably target Kawahi Leonard...since ya know....

KnicksorBust
03-12-2015, 11:26 AM
They should probably target Kawahi Leonard...since ya know....

:laugh:

IndyRealist
03-13-2015, 08:47 AM
Leonard is priority #1 for the Spurs. expect the Knicks and Lakers to offer Leonard max offer sheets, just so SA has to match. no more discounts, not in an era with a 90M salary cap.

That's not how the new cap is going to work. It's going to be JUST like now, except everyone will get paid 30% more. That doesn't mean you can suddenly afford 4 max guys just because you got 20M extra, because the max goes up as well, and so does the mid level. The cap hike will only matter through 2017-18 or so. That's your window to abuse the system. Then old contracts will have fallen off the books and everything will stabilize.