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View Full Version : Harden's 'hook" move to draw fouls



SF8
03-01-2015, 11:03 PM
It was a pretty weird play in live time, it looked like some sort of foul should have been called or at least travelling.

I thought LeBron mugged him at first but upon replay, Harden clearly hooked him when he drove in. This isn't the first time I've seen Harden do this to draw fouls either.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trKnjd6mTYk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trKnjd6mTYk

Should that play have been an offensive foul on Haren, defensive foul on LeBron, travel on Harden or no call?

SportsFanatic10
03-01-2015, 11:07 PM
wow that really looks ridiculous on harden's part. offensive foul...

nastynice
03-01-2015, 11:09 PM
in real time I thought lebron done fouled the crap outta him, and didn't get how there was no call. When they showed the replay, I saw Harden was going for some kind of odd flop. I'm actually happy with the no call. If anything offensive on Harden, but I really think the no call was best. Ref didn't buy the flop job, play on.

actually probably shoulda been a travel on Harden

nastynice
03-01-2015, 11:12 PM
lol, i love the commentator as its happening!

SportsFanatic10
03-01-2015, 11:15 PM
after looking at it again and thinking about it i'd say a travel should of definitely been called, followed up by a flopping fine from the league office.

JV35
03-01-2015, 11:23 PM
The refs in the NBA never make a mistake.

Kyben36
03-01-2015, 11:23 PM
IM going to say good no call, definitly not a foul on lebron though, not sure if offensive on harden, really didnt give him any advantage, like i said, as long as there is no foul called on the defender, im fine.

GoBroncos!!
03-01-2015, 11:29 PM
They were both wrong. But Harden started it.

Teeboy1487
03-01-2015, 11:32 PM
Harden has been getting away with it for years.

Blitzbolt
03-01-2015, 11:35 PM
That's a foul on Harden but i also only saw it on the replay.

R. Johnson#3
03-01-2015, 11:55 PM
Technically it was a travel but I like the no call.

Ariza's Better
03-01-2015, 11:57 PM
No call was the right call.

SPURSFAN1
03-02-2015, 12:11 AM
Lebron hooked him(camera does not catch the initial hook) but then harden tried to sell the call and held on to the hook. Harden pretty much blew by lebron in the late fourth and he was going to do it again.

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/3/1/8130455/james-harden-crossover-lebron-james-swatting-air-rockets-cavaliers

here lebron couldn't touch harden.

lebron was going to get blown by twice dirty. llol

GodsSon
03-02-2015, 12:19 AM
Definitely a travel, but I'm good with the no-call.

CluTcH_c1tY
03-02-2015, 12:25 AM
Lebron hooked him(camera does not catch the initial hook) but then harden tried to sell the call and held on to the hook. Harden pretty much blew by lebron in the late fourth and he was going to do it again.

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/3/1/8130455/james-harden-crossover-lebron-james-swatting-air-rockets-cavaliers

here lebron couldn't touch harden.

lebron was going to get blown by twice dirty. llol
x2 I agree with this post. The no call was the right course of action.

*Silver&Black*
03-02-2015, 12:58 AM
No call was the right call.

But there was a travel so.....refs made up their own game there.

SPURSFAN1
03-02-2015, 01:00 AM
But there was a travel so.....refs made up their own game there.

The right call was a lebron foul but it happens so fast, a no-call is fine even if it hurts the rockets.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
03-02-2015, 01:21 AM
lmfao it should be a travel for Harden.

Crackadalic
03-02-2015, 01:37 AM
After looking again it look like a double foul and since that wasn't called they should have called the travel that happen after which they didn't do either. Horrible officiating

nastynice
03-02-2015, 01:57 AM
Lebron hooked him(camera does not catch the initial hook) but then harden tried to sell the call and held on to the hook. Harden pretty much blew by lebron in the late fourth and he was going to do it again.

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/3/1/8130455/james-harden-crossover-lebron-james-swatting-air-rockets-cavaliers

here lebron couldn't touch harden.

lebron was going to get blown by twice dirty. llol

u know what, ur actually right. You can see harden's initial move get's james in the wrong direction again, but instead of swatting air, this time he swatted harden's arm, which then lead to them getting locked up

wierd *** play, wow, harden really shook him again. Damn, that's saying something, you don't see people getting by lebron like that too often.

Goose17
03-02-2015, 02:49 AM
Lol it was clearly a travel and some underhanded dirty tactics by Harden.

The no call is fine though. Calling it on LeBron doesn't make sense.

Ariza's Better
03-02-2015, 02:52 AM
But there was a travel so.....refs made up their own game there.


lmfao it should be a travel for Harden.


After looking again it look like a double foul and since that wasn't called they should have called the travel that happen after which they didn't do either. Horrible officiating
You see, the thing is, this is the NBA, travels don't exist.

IversonIsKrazy
03-02-2015, 04:00 AM
If u didn't wanna call a foul, fine. But call the friggin travel atleast Lol

Aapox
03-02-2015, 04:10 AM
It was actually all 4.

First, Harden crossed Lebron and Lebron grabbed him. Second, they didn't call that so Harden was baiting and flailing Lebron with his off arm. Third, Harden clearly travels while tangled. Fourth, the NBA refs are so scared to make a call against a superstar they got saved by the bell and it went in the books as a no-call.

PurpleJesus
03-02-2015, 04:56 AM
Great move by Harden, and he does stuff like this often. Its called being savvy. In this particular instance, the refs non-call was better than Harden's savvy move.

Also, hard to believe that if it wasnt a premiere player like LeBron guarding Harden, that a foul wouldnt have been called. If that is say...Wesley Johnson guarding Harden there, a foul is called without a doubt.

Zefflin
03-02-2015, 05:07 AM
http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/3/2/8131515/lebron-james-sad-mirror-photo-rockets-cavaliers-free-throws

LeBron James is taking sad mirror photos after losing to Rockets

ewing
03-02-2015, 06:57 AM
this is actually and old Reggie Miller trick. Back in the day you couldn't do it as often b/c you'd catch a Charles Oakly elbow to the head on the next play.

c.c.
03-02-2015, 07:01 AM
When guarding an offensive player your arms and legs gotta be a certain way. Harden running past LeBron (while LeBron left arm poking out) is no different from pump faking to bait a defensive player to put a hand out before you shoot. He caught LeBron slipping and tried to take advantage of it.

Goose17
03-02-2015, 07:37 AM
When guarding an offensive player your arms and legs gotta be a certain way. Harden running past LeBron (while LeBron left arm poking out) is no different from pump faking to bait a defensive player to put a hand out before you shoot. He caught LeBron slipping and tried to take advantage of it.

Lol. He didn't "run past" LeBron when LBJ had his arm out, he grabbed onto Lebrons arm, hooked it under his own and held it while running (travelling) to make it look like he was being fouled. That's a big difference.

Whether or not people think it's acceptable is entirely up for debate. But it's a very savvy thing to pull off (although he failed) and it's not the same as running past someone's arm and getting a reach in call.

It reminds me of that CP3 move. Where he holds the ball as low as he can, waits for the defender to put an arm out and then rips the ball up into the air, instigating contact, then drops the ball and begins to flail around like he was just assaulted by a bear.


You can't compare it to guys who pump fake, get a defender of their feet then lean in to draw the contact. That's entirely the defenders fault for biting and leaving their feet. It's not Lebrons fault that Harden locked his arm around his own and put on his best acting chops.

c.c.
03-02-2015, 07:55 AM
Lol. He didn't "run past" LeBron when LBJ had his arm out, he grabbed onto Lebrons arm, hooked it under his own and held it while running (travelling) to make it look like he was being fouled. That's a big difference.

Look at video again, Harden was on his way past LeBron when their arms hooked.

Goose17
03-02-2015, 08:07 AM
Look at video again, Harden was on his way past LeBron when their arms hooked.

Yes but he hooked their arms. You worded it as if all he did was run into his arm or something.

I don't believe for a second that Harden intended on getting a lay up. That entire time he was looking to draw a foul. He deliberately locked arms with LBJ. He knew he wasn't going to get past him and all the way to the rim. He knew from the start that he was going to do that.

I don't mind guys drawing contact and doing it in a savvy way. What bothers me personally is guys who have absolutely no intention of scoring and who go in with the sole goal of getting fouled. You should be trying to score and see getting fouled as a secondary objective. You shouldn't go in there with no intentions whatsoever of doing anything other than drawing contact.

beasted86
03-02-2015, 08:16 AM
Travel or offensive foul

mightybosstone
03-02-2015, 08:20 AM
As others have said, I think Lebron initially fouled him, but then Harden clearly intentionally hooks Lebron and deserved a call. And then when the referees failed to do their jobs a second time, they totally blew the travelling call. Ultimately the play had no real effect on the outcome of the game as the Rockets failed to score on the possession and still won, but a call should have been made at some point. I thought that game was horribly officiated on both sides of the ball.

Htownballa1622
03-02-2015, 10:15 AM
It was actually all 4.

First, Harden crossed Lebron and Lebron grabbed him. Second, they didn't call that so Harden was baiting and flailing Lebron with his off arm. Third, Harden clearly travels while tangled. Fourth, the NBA refs are so scared to make a call against a superstar they got saved by the bell and it went in the books as a no-call.

This is the most accurate description of what happened.

Jeffy25
03-02-2015, 10:27 AM
They hooked into each other, and Harden played as an actor.

I would have called it as a travel personally.

Defenders get called for fouls way too easily. LeBron is the king of getting those kinds of calls, and it's BS. There was a play last year in the Finals, where Lebron shook a dude off of him, the defender literally never touched LeBron, and a foul was called. Absolutely ridiculous.

Harden is an actor too, I can't blame the players for trying to get these calls. They get them all the time, you aren't trying if you aren't trying to get these kinds of calls. But they are bad for the game in my opinion. Lebron certainly didn't foul Harden here, and Harden didn't foul LeBron. They got their arms hooked up in one another, and Harden expected a call to be made. It was the right no-call. But Harden traveled when expecting that call. It looks as if Harden may have intentionally hooked LeBron's arm, but that may be a stretch to call that.

PurpleLynch
03-02-2015, 12:01 PM
Foul on Lebron
Foul on Harden
Harden's travel

I would have called a travel,just because it's the only one thing that doesn't leave room for interpretation.
Both fouls were hard to judge,while the travel was obvious. But it's the Nba,do you remember Brewer's travel? This one wasn't even a travel compared to that one.

PS: REFS,I can stand not calling fouls,but the travelling damn...it's just the basics.

Mr.SmackYoMama
03-02-2015, 12:22 PM
Harden is a POS hate that guy!

prodigy
03-03-2015, 06:29 AM
wow that really looks ridiculous on harden's part. offensive foul...

That's why he shoots 200 more FTs then anyone else in basketball. Gotta love the NBA. its so hard to watch most the time lol.

valade16
03-03-2015, 11:03 AM
When people say Harden's game doesn't translate to the playoffs, these are the kinds of plays they are talking about. He is not going to get those kinds of calls very often in the playoffs.

IndyRealist
03-03-2015, 11:20 AM
Lebron instigated it. You see him do the same thing later in the game when Harden blows by him. Lebron tries to hook Harden's off arm, except Harden knows it's coming and straightens out his arm so Lebron can't hook him.

Verbal Christ
03-03-2015, 02:04 PM
The OFFICIAL Ref report: http://official.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2015/03/L2M-Mar1.pdf

play in question should have been called an offensive foul by Harden, but then a subsequent foul on James?

"after the initial foul by Harden, James fouls by pulling him causing him to lose his pivot foot"

Wierd. Shouldnt the play have been dead AFTER the offensive foul by Harden causing whatever happened afterwards to be null?

ewing
03-03-2015, 02:16 PM
When people say Harden's game doesn't translate to the playoffs, these are the kinds of plays they are talking about. He is not going to get those kinds of calls very often in the playoffs.

i dsiagree, i think that is called a foul on the defensive player most of the time- playoffs or reg season. The fouls harden gets now that are more likely to be no calls in the playoffs are when he is shooting off the drive and leans into the defender or brings his arms into contact unnaturally.

IndyRealist
03-03-2015, 05:42 PM
i dsiagree, i think that is called a foul on the defensive player most of the time- playoffs or reg season. The fouls harden gets now that are more likely to be no calls in the playoffs are when he is shooting off the drive and leans into the defender or brings his arms into contact unnaturally.

+1.

nastynice
03-03-2015, 06:17 PM
That's why he shoots 200 more FTs then anyone else in basketball. Gotta love the NBA. its so hard to watch most the time lol.

I'll be the first person to say that Harden's a flopper, but people keep bringing up his FT numbers without giving any due to just how crafty he is when driving the lane. He has the best eurostep I have ever seen, and when a player has the ability to change direction and rhythm like that, they are going to draw lots of fouls because defenders can't time it properly. I get his floppiness, but to chalk up his high FT strictly to flopping is just not giving his game the credit it deserves.