PDA

View Full Version : Russell Westbrook on a tear



Mantle7
02-27-2015, 10:03 AM
Russell Westbrook is on a goddamn tear. Triple double last night.

His February averages are 29.5 ppg, 8.2 rpg, 10.1 apg. Season averages are 25.9-6.5-8.0.

For comparison's sake, the averages for all four of LeBron's MVP seasons are 28.0-7.7-7.3.

The MVP vote should be intriguing this year.

Only once have teammates won the MVP in consecutive years: Cousy in '57 and Russell in '58.

Other intrigues:

* 1 guy with 2 names won it back to back: Alcindor in '71 and Abdul-Jabbar in '72

* Moses Malone won it in '82 with Rockets and '83 with the Sixers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Most_Valuable_Player_Award

curtcocaine
02-27-2015, 10:47 AM
Nice real nice.

Slug3
02-27-2015, 10:52 AM
He has been on a tear, but for whatever reason the like to have the MVP be on a top team record wise.

Clippersfan86
02-27-2015, 11:01 AM
Shot 5-16 in possessions guarded by Eric Bledsoe last night. Pwnt.

Goose17
02-27-2015, 11:07 AM
I don't think he will win MVP unless OKC finish as a top 4 seed. He would be making history.

When you compare stats with the MVP candidates of the top teams, it's interesting (I stuck to perimeter players for comparison sake, sorry Marc/LMA)

LeBron; 26 PPG, 6 RPG, 7 APG, 1.5 SPG, FG 49%, 3PT 33%.
Harden; 27 PPG, 6 RPG, 7 APG, 2 SPG, FG 45%, 3PT 38%
Curry; 24 PPG, 4.6 RPG, 8 APG, 2.2 SPG, FG 48%, 3PT 40%
Russ; 26 PPG, 6.6 RPG, 8 APG, 2 SPG, FG 43%, 3PT 30%
Lillard; 21 PPG, 4.6 RPG, 6 APG, 1.4 SPG, FG 43%, 3PT 34%


The basic stat lines have it looking real close.

pebloemer
02-27-2015, 11:19 AM
Shot 5-16 in possessions guarded by Eric Bledsoe last night. Pwnt.

And like 12-38 overall IIRC and his team lost. The bulk stats from last night look great, but that is not an MVP caliber performance. LeBron's performance last night on the other hand...

JLynn943
02-27-2015, 11:24 AM
And like 12-38 overall IIRC and his team lost. The bulk stats from last night look great, but that is not an MVP caliber performance. LeBron's performance last night on the other hand...

And that included 1-10 from 3. At some point you just stop taking 3's and let someone else try.

Mantle7
02-27-2015, 11:28 AM
He has been on a tear, but for whatever reason the like to have the MVP be on a top team record wise.

Definitely. One of those unwritten rules of MVP voting--the team has to have a great year too.

KnicksorBust
02-27-2015, 12:28 PM
And like 12-38 overall IIRC and his team lost. The bulk stats from last night look great, but that is not an MVP caliber performance. LeBron's performance last night on the other hand...


And that included 1-10 from 3. At some point you just stop taking 3's and let someone else try.

Have you seen his passing lately...

Tony_Starks
02-27-2015, 01:08 PM
Definitely my MVP at this point. Not only is he ballin out but is translating to wins with or without KD. I actually felt they should've won last night but once Russ started complaining the refs were giving him no love. A lot of those drives to the rack should've been and 1s....

Tony_Starks
02-27-2015, 01:12 PM
I don't think he will win MVP unless OKC finish as a top 4 seed. He would be making history.

When you compare stats with the MVP candidates of the top teams, it's interesting (I stuck to perimeter players for comparison sake, sorry Marc/LMA)

LeBron; 26 PPG, 6 RPG, 7 APG, 1.5 SPG, FG 49%, 3PT 33%.
Harden; 27 PPG, 6 RPG, 7 APG, 2 SPG, FG 45%, 3PT 38%
Curry; 24 PPG, 4.6 RPG, 8 APG, 2.2 SPG, FG 48%, 3PT 40%
Russ; 26 PPG, 6.6 RPG, 8 APG, 2 SPG, FG 43%, 3PT 30%
Lillard; 21 PPG, 4.6 RPG, 6 APG, 1.4 SPG, FG 43%, 3PT 34%


The basic stat lines have it looking real close.


History is made to be broken. It probably won't because the media are sheep and a lot of stat geeks vote which is bad for somebody like Russell.

I think we can all acknowledge that this isn't your typical bottom seed though. When it comes to his MVP voting I think they really should throw the record out the window or at least judge the record by games he played....

Sadds The Gr8
02-27-2015, 01:30 PM
Have you seen his passing lately...
He had some nice passes out of pnr last night but 38 is still too much. Don't know if you watched the game but kanter was hot in the 2nd q and they just completely went away from him in the 2nd half. He's been great but last night was a bad game for him

jerellh528
02-27-2015, 01:38 PM
History is made to be broken. It probably won't because the media are sheep and a lot of stat geeks vote which is bad for somebody like Russell.

I think we can all acknowledge that this isn't your typical bottom seed though. When it comes to his MVP voting I think they really should throw the record out the window or at least judge the record by games he played....

I kind of agree here, I don't think it's needed for okc to secure the 4th seed or better for westy to win mvp. 7th seed and I would give it to him. I hope the voters see his impact and where okc would be without him this season with kd's absence. This season Westbrook has vaulted himself into a top 3-5 NBA player.

colinskik
02-27-2015, 02:13 PM
The only reason his percentages were low last night was because he started off cold as ice. I think he was like 0-8 to start.

Hawkeye15
02-27-2015, 02:15 PM
MVP's don't come from teams outside the top 3 in their conference. It would break the mold...

He is destroying it. Best player in the game right now.

Hangin n Wangin
02-27-2015, 02:16 PM
He's only playing 32 minutes too. Crazy. He shoots a lot in those 32 minutes, but who gives a ****. Let him launch.

Minimal
02-27-2015, 02:19 PM
Where were all of you when he averaged the same numbers earlier in the season?
All of a sudden he is an MVP candidate, where in fact he was all the time during the season.
His Per36 min stats are ridiculous. 28.7 PPG. 8.8 AST 7.3 REB 2.3 STL. He is the best player in +/- this season. His impact on the team is sick.

tredigs
02-27-2015, 02:20 PM
^Best player in the game? Really? The hype is going overboard. I'm gonna need better than a 53% TS and 2:1 TO rate from the NBA's best PG, let alone best player. KD is still the teams best player when both are healthy, that's for sure.

Hawkeye15
02-27-2015, 02:21 PM
^Best player in the game? Really? The hype is going overboard. I'm gonna need better than a 53% TS and 2:1 TO rate from the NBA's best PG, let alone best player. KD is still the teams best player when both are healthy, that's for sure.

right now he is. Not overall, but is there anyone playing better currently? Maybe LeBron?

tredigs
02-27-2015, 02:23 PM
right now he is. Not overall, but is there anyone playing better currently? Maybe LeBron?

You mean who's had the best February+. So best last 10-12 games? Or season? I don't think he's had the best season, no.

Lebron's playing great, but I'd definitely give Westbrook the nod over him for the year. He's been giving max effort each night, whereas Lebron admitted to go going easy early on, then flat out left the team for a while. Much easier to go hard in the 2nd half against the battle worn players (especially West guys) when that's the case.

tredigs
02-27-2015, 02:27 PM
Curry/Harden/AD have all been better overall than Westbrook imo. His shooting is just too terrible and he's turning it over too much. He's the tornado, and it's awesome + he's awesome, but he's not the NBA's best player for the season or overall, no.

Shlumpledink
02-27-2015, 02:31 PM
I kind of agree here, I don't think it's needed for okc to secure the 4th seed or better for westy to win mvp. 7th seed and I would give it to him. I hope the voters see his impact and where okc would be without him this season with kd's absence. This season Westbrook has vaulted himself into a top 3-5 NBA player.

Historical precedent says otherwise unfortunately. The voters nowadays look at only the top 3 or 4 teams and then pick from there.

FraziersKnicks
02-27-2015, 02:41 PM
I think it's a testament to LeBron's greatness that he can put up 26/6/7 on nearly 50% shooting whilst cruising. Pretty incredible.

As it stands I think Curry and Harden are ahead of him and barring a Warriors meltdown and the Cavs running off a 20+ win streak, Curry will take it.

Westbrook has been hot but I don't think he deserves it. No player in recent history has won it without being a top 2 seed in their conference. He's also missed 14 games already which would put him at 68 if he doesn't miss any more games for the rest of the season. When Iverson won his award he played 71 games which is the lowest total for an MVP in the past 35 years (Bill Walton played 58 in 77-78?!). He's also only shooting 43% which would be the 2nd lowest FG% for an MVP in NBA history after... You guessed it. Iverson.

1. Curry
2. Harden
3. LeBron
4. Westbrook
5. Gasol

That's how I would vote if the season ended today.

Minimal
02-27-2015, 02:43 PM
^Best player in the game? Really? The hype is going overboard. I'm gonna need better than a 53% TS and 2:1 TO rate from the NBA's best PG, let alone best player. KD is still the teams best player when both are healthy, that's for sure.
Did I say best player in the game? No. I said best player in +/-. That means he brings the most impact for the team. The next 3 after him in +/- are Curry, Harden and James. See the pattern?
And yes he is the best player on OKC team since last years playoffs. Don't look at his FG% which at 43% is still pretty decent for a point guard who scores 26.2 PPG. He does everything well. He scores, passes, sets ups others, rebounds, he gives 100% each and every game and he is the best defender on the team.

tredigs
02-27-2015, 02:52 PM
Did I say best player in the game? No. I said best player in +/-. That means he brings the most impact for the team. The next 3 after him in +/- are Curry, Harden and James. See the pattern?
And yes he is the best player on OKC team since last years playoffs. Don't look at his FG% which at 43% is still pretty decent for a point guard who scores 26.2 PPG. He does everything well. He scores, passes, sets ups others, rebounds, he gives 100% each and every game and he is the best defender on the team.

#1, wasn't talking to you. Was talking to Hawk.
#2, no, 43% from the field and under 28% from three on his volume is not pretty good, for his volume or otherwise.
#3, he's third in RPlus/Minus behind Curry and Harden. Still great, but not #1.

Definitely been better than Lebron though, who by his NBA MVP level standards has a pedestrian 58% TS (down huge from his performance in past seasons), .187 WS/48 (down huge from virtually every year), and 25.7 PER (also down huge). He generally leads or is at the minimum top 3 in all these Cats. Nowhere close this year.

houstonfan
02-27-2015, 02:59 PM
I kind of agree here, I don't think it's needed for okc to secure the 4th seed or better for westy to win mvp. 7th seed and I would give it to him. I hope the voters see his impact and where okc would be without him this season with kd's absence. This season Westbrook has vaulted himself into a top 3-5 NBA player.

You could say the same about where Cleveland would be without Lebron, Houston without Harden (especially with Dwight missing most of the year), and to a lesser extent Golden State without Curry (only because that team is so incredibly deep).

Alayla
02-27-2015, 03:32 PM
Westbrook has been really underrated for a really long time been the 2nd best PG in the game for awhile now he is the best.

jerellh528
02-27-2015, 03:37 PM
You could say the same about where Cleveland would be without Lebron, Houston without Harden (especially with Dwight missing most of the year), and to a lesser extent Golden State without Curry (only because that team is so incredibly deep).

Not really, maybe only Houston out of those teams you mentioned. Cleveland and gs have rosters that can still make the playoffs without them.

jerellh528
02-27-2015, 03:39 PM
MVP's don't come from teams outside the top 3 in their conference. It would break the mold...

He is destroying it. Best player in the game right now.

If there was ever a situation I can think of that can buck the trend it would be westbrook this season in a stacked west without kd

Hawkeye15
02-27-2015, 04:14 PM
You mean who's had the best February+. So best last 10-12 games? Or season? I don't think he's had the best season, no.


Right. Westbrook is already elite, so what I mean is, his current stretch of basketball he is playing, there isn't anyone better.

tredigs
02-27-2015, 05:07 PM
Right. Westbrook is already elite, so what I mean is, his current stretch of basketball he is playing, there isn't anyone better.

Gotchya. Yeah, I mean I think he's the player of the month? But, February is the shortest month and it was broken up by an especially long ASB. Not really the best sample size... 11 games. The prior 16 games he posted 20.9/6.4/7.4 on 36.8% FG (22.8% from three) and the Thunder went 8-8. He's been very inconsistent as he often is, but this is a fun little stretch.

KnicksorBust
02-27-2015, 05:10 PM
Have you seen his passing lately...
He had some nice passes out of pnr last night but 38 is still too much. Don't know if you watched the game but kanter was hot in the 2nd q and they just completely went away from him in the 2nd half. He's been great but last night was a bad game for him

Yeah I dvrd the game and went to bed. Watched it in the morning. 39 points on 38 shots is not a bad game. Especially when you add his double digit assists and rebounds.

Tony_Starks
02-27-2015, 05:30 PM
Where were all of you when he averaged the same numbers earlier in the season?
All of a sudden he is an MVP candidate, where in fact he was all the time during the season.
His Per36 min stats are ridiculous. 28.7 PPG. 8.8 AST 7.3 REB 2.3 STL. He is the best player in +/- this season. His impact on the team is sick.

I've been singing his praises all year, even when people said OKC wouldn't even make the playoffs.

tredigs
02-27-2015, 05:30 PM
Yeah I dvrd the game and went to bed. Watched it in the morning. 39 points on 38 shots is not a bad game. Especially when you add his double digit assists and rebounds.

Hahah -- who are you guys kidding here?? That is an insane amount of shots, and a TERRIBLE percentage. 31.6% is literally the worst shooting% a player in modern NBA history (possibly ever, the stats I have only go back to the 70's) has posted on that volume of shots (38+ ... nobody has even taken 38+ shots in 3 years...).

Yes, he got the 3x2 and maybe even had a slightly+ impact overall, but the shooting aspect was literally as bad as it gets. There's better ways to try to win, and if you're using up 46 possessions by yourself alone to shoot, you damn well better be eclipsing 50 points, let alone 39.

Jamiecballer
02-27-2015, 05:48 PM
^Best player in the game? Really? The hype is going overboard. I'm gonna need better than a 53% TS and 2:1 TO rate from the NBA's best PG, let alone best player. KD is still the teams best player when both are healthy, that's for sure.
co-sign. he's a raw numbers superstar.

KnicksorBust
02-27-2015, 06:54 PM
Yeah I dvrd the game and went to bed. Watched it in the morning. 39 points on 38 shots is not a bad game. Especially when you add his double digit assists and rebounds.

Hahah -- who are you guys kidding here?? That is an insane amount of shots, and a TERRIBLE percentage. 31.6% is literally the worst shooting% a player in modern NBA history (possibly ever, the stats I have only go back to the 70's) has posted on that volume of shots (38+ ... nobody has even taken 38+ shots in 3 years...).

Yes, he got the 3x2 and maybe even had a slightly+ impact overall, but the shooting aspect was literally as bad as it gets. There's better ways to try to win, and if you're using up 46 possessions by yourself alone to shoot, you damn well better be eclipsing 50 points, let alone 39.

Do you seriously go by fg% only?

5 for 10 (50%) shooting would only yield 1pps. What he did was better than that. You are essentially ignoring the significant impact of his of his 16 free throws. And you are ignoring the value of his 11 assists which could have been more if guys like Singler and even Ibaka didnt blow some easy opportunities.

tredigs
02-27-2015, 07:05 PM
Do you seriously go by fg% only?

5 for 10 (50%) shooting would only yield 1pps. What he did was better than that. You are essentially ignoring the significant impact of his of his 16 free throws. And you are ignoring the value of his 11 assists which could have been more if guys like Singler and even Ibaka didnt blow some easy opportunities.

Go by FG% only? Ignoring his free throws + assists? Did you read my post? ... I mentioned that he scored 39 points on 46 shooting possessions (that includes his 8 separate trips to the line + 38 attempts), which I stated was absolutely horrible. I acknowledged the triple-double and stated that despite his historically bad shooting night, he still likely had a slightly +impact on the team, just that it was not the best way to go about trying to win. At some point one should probably acknowledge that they're a very bad 3pt shooter and not jack up 10 of them while only making 1, no? I can see if he was having the rare hot 3pt shooting night, but give me a break here.

jerellh528
02-27-2015, 07:16 PM
co-sign. he's a raw numbers superstar.

Tf is a raw numbers suoerstar? His impact on the court says enough without looking at advanced statistics. If you're asking to see more than a 53 ts and 2:1 ratio but don't actually see the impact that shows you don't quite understand the game

tredigs
02-27-2015, 07:57 PM
When you're holdings somebody to the highest possible standard - saying he's the MVP or games best player - you open up to 100% scrutiny, and the 2:1 Assist:TO ratio + terrible shooting doesn't stack up for the PG right now. His other attributes are clear as day and demonstrative, but he needs to clean it up if he wants to join the debate as #1 IMO. Especially when his own teammate (tho' injured this year) was clearly better than this level of performance just last season in the same system.

Jamiecballer
02-28-2015, 10:33 AM
Tf is a raw numbers suoerstar? His impact on the court says enough without looking at advanced statistics. If you're asking to see more than a 53 ts and 2:1 ratio but don't actually see the impact that shows you don't quite understand the game
Impact is objective, no?

Jamiecballer
02-28-2015, 10:35 AM
When you're holdings somebody to the highest possible standard - saying he's the MVP or games best player - you open up to 100% scrutiny, and the 2:1 Assist:TO ratio + terrible shooting doesn't stack up for the PG right now. His other attributes are clear as day and demonstrative, but he needs to clean it up if he wants to join the debate as #1 IMO. Especially when his own teammate (tho' injured this year) was clearly better than this level of performance just last season in the same system.
Precisely, his game is impressive but until he becomes a better decision maker he won't be a truly elite player except in numbers only.

Alayla
02-28-2015, 02:34 PM
Man i cant not believe people are still sleeping on westbrook right now its insane blind hate you don't need advanced stats to tell this guy makes a massive impact on the floor. Stats are a good guideline but they are not something you live and die on idc what his basic or advanced stats are the fact of the matter is the guy is utterly destroying the NBA right now and has clear cut the most raw talent at his position by an absolute landslide if you can't see that your clearly not watching him or at least don't know what to look for in the game of basketball.

tredigs
02-28-2015, 02:49 PM
Man i cant not believe people are still sleeping on westbrook right now its insane blind hate you don't need advanced stats to tell this guy makes a massive impact on the floor. Stats are a good guideline but they are not something you live and die on idc what his basic or advanced stats are the fact of the matter is the guy is utterly destroying the NBA right now and has clear cut the most raw talent at his position by an absolute landslide if you can't see that your clearly not watching him or at least don't know what to look for in the game of basketball.

The only "clear cut" he has is the most explosion and athletic ability, talent is a whole 'nother matter. You're seeing a guy who's going full bore up and down the court every game this month - who is pushing the highest USG% in a season in NBA history right now - just unleash hell. Is it working? ... Sort of. Not entirely. If the #'s don't help you, then you might want to simply understand that taking the most shots in a 2 game span over the last decade - and doing it at a low% - in b2b losses is probably not ideal?

I fully get the love for Westbrook, but if you don't get the reservations as well, then you're hopeless.

sens#11fan
02-28-2015, 03:06 PM
Precisely, his game is impressive but until he becomes a better decision maker he won't be a truly elite player except in numbers only.

I disagree, you can argue he's not the best player in the league or mvp because of his decision making. However, he is arguably a top 5 player in the league, whats scary is that he has shown that he is capable of learning to balance his playmaking and scoring ability. He just needs to sustain that throughout the whole game, for instance his 1st half against POR was god-like. However, he just forced it during the 2nd half

Jamiecballer
02-28-2015, 04:15 PM
I disagree, you can argue he's not the best player in the league or mvp because of his decision making. However, he is arguably a top 5 player in the league, whats scary is that he has shown that he is capable of learning to balance his playmaking and scoring ability. He just needs to sustain that throughout the whole game, for instance his 1st half against POR was god-like. However, he just forced it during the 2nd half
Well all I can say is you keep waiting for that change. I feel I have a better chance playing the lottery.

Alayla
02-28-2015, 10:13 PM
The only "clear cut" he has is the most explosion and athletic ability, talent is a whole 'nother matter. You're seeing a guy who's going full bore up and down the court every game this month - who is pushing the highest USG% in a season in NBA history right now - just unleash hell. Is it working? ... Sort of. Not entirely. If the #'s don't help you, then you might want to simply understand that taking the most shots in a 2 game span over the last decade - and doing it at a low% - in b2b losses is probably not ideal?

I fully get the love for Westbrook, but if you don't get the reservations as well, then you're hopeless.

Once again you keep bringing it back to numbers and basketball doesn't work that way you even said it yourself its working its getting his team wins drawing the attention of the defense wearing the enemy team out on the other end getting guys open and making his entire teams life easier because if people at not watching him he will turn it into a highlight play if you dont understand how a guy like westbrook forces your enemy's entire defensive gameplan to change then you must have never stepped onto a basketball court that's all im saying here his flaws are vastly outweighed just on the attention he draws alone.

Hawkamania
02-28-2015, 11:04 PM
I've always loved Westbrook but he's playing on a whole other level right now.

tredigs
03-01-2015, 02:16 AM
Once again you keep bringing it back to numbers and basketball doesn't work that way you even said it yourself its working its getting his team wins drawing the attention of the defense wearing the enemy team out on the other end getting guys open and making his entire teams life easier because if people at not watching him he will turn it into a highlight play if you dont understand how a guy like westbrook forces your enemy's entire defensive gameplan to change then you must have never stepped onto a basketball court that's all im saying here his flaws are vastly outweighed just on the attention he draws alone.

I'm not saying he sucks kid, calm down. In fact, I think he's a clear top 8 player in the NBA (LBJ/Durant/Curry/Harden/Westbrook/CP3/AD/Griffin in some order). But when you're talking about being the best in the game, the spotlight gets brighter, and his flaws are very apparent to anybody who understands the game at a high level, whether you trust #'s or not.

KobeOwnSU
03-01-2015, 02:18 AM
He is putting a dent in the idea that he can't be the man on a team. Some team is gonna cave and make him the face of a franchise.

DitchDat
03-01-2015, 04:02 AM
He has been on another level lately. Awesome to watch him play.