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View Full Version : Mock Trade Game (Championship) San Antonio vs Cleveland



Shammyguy3
02-26-2015, 08:35 PM
The Bulls' forum hosted the Mock Trade game again this year. Teams were combined to make an even 20 team league. Conferences were adjusted to compensate for disparity in talent. The top-8 teams in each conference made the playoffs. Vote on the poll for which team you think would win in a 7-game series. Players are considered 100% healthy. If they have been out the whole year, use the last season that they played and take about 80% of their production to vote (e.g. Paul George).

1. San Antonio (Home Court Advantage)
PG: Chris Paul | Patty Mills | Jose Calderon
SG: J.J. Redick | Khris Middleton | Iman Shumpert
SF: DeMarre Carroll | P.J. Tucker | Anthony Morrow
PF: Tim Duncan | Carlos Boozer | Kyle O'Quinn
C: Al Horford | Rudy Gobert

2. Cleveland
PG: Darren Collison - Trey Burke - Matthew Dellavedova
SG: Bradley Beal - Gerald Green - JR Smith - Mike Miller
SF: Lebron James - Corey Brewer - James Jones
PF: Anthony Davis - Tristan Thompson
C: Hassan Whiteside - Anderson Varejao - Brendan Haywood

Spurs writeup

When analyzing and comparing these two squads, you will see a fundamental difference in philosophical construction. One team has a pair of elite players surrounded by a bunch of low IQ, inexperienced one-dimensional players (Cleveland) while the other has an elite trio of two-way players who have the experience and basketball IQ to win the championship.

Three Kings Beat Two Aces

Three Kings

The Spurs are accustom to playing team ball, high basketball IQ, and efficient two-way ball. The goal was to acquire a trio of players who had all of that and so they kept their MVP (Tim Duncan), and upgraded Tony parker with the Clippers MVP (Chris Paul), and upgraded Tiago Splitter for the Hawks MVP (Al Horford). Chris Paul is the league’s best two-way/pass-first PG. Tim Duncan is a 5x champion and top 5 PF (greatest PF of all time) who anchors the Spurs defense. Al Horford is a top 5 C that scores in the post and midrange while anchoring the defense of the 2nd best record team in the NBA (Atlanta Hawk).

Two Aces

LeBron James is arguably the best player on the planet. He and Davis make a formidable duo. The issue is that while Davis is superior in the regular season, we don’t know what to expect from him in the playoffs. We know the game slows down and requires experience to have post-season success. In this scenario, Davis is playing in the NBA Finals against a superior squad with playoff experience. For the regular season, Davis would make the Spurs a better team. However, come NBA Finals, Tim Duncan will prove to be more valuable individually and for the team. The man is 5-1 (a free throw away from being 6-0) in the Finals!

Doubts of Cleveland


The only starter with legitimate and extensive playoff experience on the Cavs is LeBron James. On the bench, Corey Brewer (played 6 games at 3.8 minutes each) and Brendan Haywood (18 games at 15.3 minutes each) won a championship for the Mavericks in 2011.




The Cavs only have two defensive wings on the entire roster, LeBron James and Corey Brewer!!! Yikes!!! Assuming LeBron James plays his last post-season minutes per game (38), that will give Brewer a total of 10 minutes to play defense. Collison, Beal, Burke, Green, Smith, Miller, Jones, and Dellavedova are terrible wing defenders.




The Cavs have a lack of quality back up SG/SF that do not offer anything diverse or dynamic from each other. Green shoots 3’s, doesn’t attack the rim. Smith shoots (too many bad) 3’s, doesn’t attack the rim, Miller shoots 3’s, too slow to attack the rim.




The Cavs are incredibly weak at the PG position. Collison puts up average numbers for a losing team in real life, the Sacramento Kings. If you want to start a good backup PG with NBA championship aspirations, good luck. Even though LeBron James will handle the ball the most, you still need a legitimate PG. Trey Burke and Dellavedova are God awful PGs. It’s one thing if they had a Jose Calderon type of guy who could be a dynamic backup for the Cavs that can lead the offense while LeBron is resting or unable to bring the ball up the court, but they have absolutely no quality at PG depth.




The Cavs have a huge hole at C. Hassan Whiteside is a player with exceptional potential as he continues to develop, but do not confuse his potential for him being starter worthy on a championship team! His place is on a non-playoff team starting (to continue to develop), or a reserve role on a legitimate playoff team. He is foul prone and has no offensive moves, and not to mention, he has ultra low basketball IQ.


Defensive Assignments

Chris Paul will be assigned to Collison. Collison thrives by attacking the rim. Chris Paul has the speed/quickness to stay in front of Collison, essentially neutralizing any affect he will have. On screens, Paul will go under, baiting Collison to shoot (and not LeBron). On occasion, Paul will be put on Beal as Paul is versatile enough defensively to guard all the wing positions.

JJ Redick will be assigned to Beal. Redick is a really good perimeter defender. This will prove vital as Beal is not a slasher but someone who enjoys shooting from beyond the arch. On screens/picks, Redick will go over it to contest where he knows Tim Duncan and Al Horford will be there to contest in the rare event Beal attacks the rim.

DeMarre Carroll will guard James in 4 minute spurts, playing all out defense on LeBron James. After 4 minutes of bulldog defense, PJ Tucker will replace Carroll and exert all his energy playing physical defense with James. After 4 minutes, Iman Shumpert will take his turn focusing entirely on making life difficult for James. The last cycle to this defensive assault on LeBron will be when Khris Middleton has his 4 minutes guarding him. Having 4 wing players who take shifts playing the most physical and focused defense on LeBron in 4 minute spurts throughout the game will disable him from adapting to defenses. James’ efficiency will go down as he will have to work extensively to get his points offensively, but he will be worn out come the fourth quarter (as the Mavericks and Spurs have done with him).

Similar to what the Spurs will be doing with LeBron James, they will use Al Horford, Tim Duncan, and Rudy Gobert to guard Anthony Davis. Throughout the 48 minutes, 2 of those 3 will be on the floor at all times. The order of guarding Davis will go as followed: Horford (starting out), Gobert (substituted), then Duncan. At no time will Davis have enough room to breathe on the offensive end. He has absolutely no playoff experience compounded with the stingy defenses thrown at him, Davis will struggle in this series.

Duncan will be put on Hassan Whiteside. Whiteside has minimal offensive skills, so Duncan will conserve his energy to focus on the offensive side of the floor. This is not the regular season, in a slower pace half court setting, Whiteside will be exposed and shut down on the offensive end.

Offensive Strategies

Pick and Roll

Chris Paul shoots .505 from 10-16 feet and .461 from 16 feet.
JJ Redick shoots .531 from 10-16 feet and .457 from 16 feet.
Tim Duncan shoots .683 from 0-3 feet.
Al Horford shoots .728 from 0-3 feet, .486 from 10-16 feet, and .510 from 16 feet.

The Cavs will have to pick their poison. Do they switch on the pick and roll and allow Duncan/Horford to destroy them inside? Can Davis sacrifice his offense to play defense the entire series? What happens when Whiteside fouls out as he is incredibly foul prone?

Furthermore, Horford could play pick and pop with Duncan as he is incredibly efficient (.486 from 10-16, .510 from 16 feet) away from the rim. He has the versatility of setting the pick, or being the one who rolls.

Inside-Outside Game

Chris Paul: .383 from 3 point, 4.1 attempts/game
JJ Redick: .437 from 3 point, 5.5 attempts/game
DeMarre Carroll: .395 from 3 point, 4.3 attempts/game
Patty Mills (injured this season so using last season’s stats as rules state) : .425 from 3 point, 3.9 attempts/game
Iman Shumpert (for Cavs): .455 from 3 point, 3.4 attempts/game
PJ Tucker: .373 from 3 point, 3.2 attempts/game

Having so many 2-way players that are capable of spreading the floor with such efficiency will be a nightmare for the Cavs to defend. The Cavs only have LeBron James as their ONLY defensive wing, enabling the Spurs to score at will. If the Cavs defense goes too far out on the perimeter, Duncan and Horford will have a field day inside with each other. If they double Horford/Duncan, then they will get the assist (or hockey assist) with their elite passing to the open perimeter man. If Davis or the foul-proned Whiteside fouls either twin tower (Horford or Duncan), they are very efficient free throw shooting bigs.

Bench Comparison

The Spurs have an incredibly stacked bench. Patty Mills was last season’s 6th man candidate. Rudy Gobert is an absolute defensive monster and rebounder for the Jazz. Khris Middleton is a starting 3 and D guy for the Bucks. PJ Tucker is the starting 3 and D guy for the Suns. Carlos Boozer has put up great numbers for the Lakers off the bench. Jose Calderon is a starting caliber PG who takes care of the ball adds to the veteranship of the Spurs. Anthony Morrow is a 3 point sniper for OKC. Kyle O’Quinn is a stretch 4/5 that has great shot blocking for the Magic. Overall, they have the perfect blend of youth and veterans to win the NBA Finals.

The Cavs bench is filled with 3 point chucking, no defense playing, subpar players that essentially do the same exact thing, just not nearly as well as the player they are replacing do. Their bench players are not enough to fill the two huge gaps in their starting positions at PG and C. “Good try, good effort.”

Cleveland has no writeup.

MFFL==FML
02-26-2015, 08:46 PM
The Spurs win this fairly easily in my opinion.

1.) They have home court advantage.
2.) CP3/Duncan/Horford is a pretty lethal combo.
3.) Cavs have a bunch of young guys with no playoff experience.
4.) Cavs bench is not good enough to stop the Spurs' starters and bench players on defense.
5.) Collison and Whiteside? Wtf?
6.) The Spurs have elite defensive stoppers at EVERY single position.
7.) The Spurs squad is build for playoffs/finals basketball, the Cavs are built for regular season.
8.) No write up = you don't care or you know you won't win.

KnicksorBust
02-26-2015, 10:01 PM
The Spurs win this fairly easily in my opinion.

1.) They have home court advantage.
2.) CP3/Duncan/Horford is a pretty lethal combo.
3.) Cavs have a bunch of young guys with no playoff experience.
4.) Cavs bench is not good enough to stop the Spurs' starters and bench players on defense.
5.) Collison and Whiteside? Wtf?
6.) The Spurs have elite defensive stoppers at EVERY single position.
7.) The Spurs squad is build for playoffs/finals basketball, the Cavs are built for regular season.
8.) No write up = you don't care or you know you won't win.

Co-sign.

Shammyguy3
02-26-2015, 10:50 PM
Agreed

Cracka2HI!
02-27-2015, 12:07 AM
Spurs we're the best team in this hands down.

LakersIn5
02-27-2015, 08:58 AM
Nba basketball isnt always about team basketball but sometimes who has better talent individually. It can go either way it just goes down on who gets hot and who adjusts better. If its all about team ball a.k.a spurs ball then the spurs should have won the ship every year but nope. Same goes with who is more talented as we can see that the heat won in 2013 as they are more talented though not more team oriented than the spurs, but the spurs adjusted and won the following year, also because wade sucked and out of his prime.. but in this matchup i just done see a duo of prime lebron and semi prime anthony davis losing in a 7 game series.

Hassan Whiteside is an automatic double double in limited minutes and when he gets out varejao can give you quality mintues. Al horford is good i think he doesnt compliment duncan well as they play the same style. I like gobert as backup C though

Anthony Davis is a beast and i dont care if he has 0 playoff experience, he wont magically lose his talent. If we are talking hypothetically that he is in the finals then it means he has already rubbed off the no playoff experience **** in the 1st 3 rounds. Tristan thompson will be a nice with the 2nd unit and i think can outplay boozer. Duncan is a great player no doubt but its time for him to pass the torch to a superior PF in davis.

Lebron is lebron. You cant focua your defense on him because he also has anthony davis who also attracts the defense. Thats whats great with this duo.

Beadley beal is underated and can spot up and create his own shot and with lebron and davis commanding the defensove attention i think beal will br the xfactor or this series.

Chris paul dominates this but i dont trust him as the no.1 scoring option and if you say the spurs will play team ball anyway so paul doesnt have to score that much i think atleast one of the spurs need to dominate offensively to beat thia cavs team.

Bench for me is a wash

I have the cavs winning in 6

unleashthebeast
02-27-2015, 11:30 AM
I will respond more in depth when I get back from class (which is also why I couldn't do a write-up), but some of you are seriously underselling LeBron and AD here, 2 top 5 players in the entire world.

You also are underrating Hassan and Darren if you seriously think that JJ Redick and DeMarre Carroll are quality NBA Finals starters. The Spurs having those 2 wings as starters seriously hampers his ability to attack one of my only weaknesses: wing defense.

But like I said I will respond more later

Redrum187
02-27-2015, 02:10 PM
Nba basketball isnt always about team basketball but sometimes who has better talent individually. It can go either way it just goes down on who gets hot and who adjusts better. If its all about team ball a.k.a spurs ball then the spurs should have won the ship every year but nope. Same goes with who is more talented as we can see that the heat won in 2013 as they are more talented though not more team oriented than the spurs, but the spurs adjusted and won the following year, also because wade sucked and out of his prime.. but in this matchup i just done see a duo of prime lebron and semi prime anthony davis losing in a 7 game series.

Hassan Whiteside is an automatic double double in limited minutes and when he gets out varejao can give you quality mintues. Al horford is good i think he doesnt compliment duncan well as they play the same style. I like gobert as backup C though

Anthony Davis is a beast and i dont care if he has 0 playoff experience, he wont magically lose his talent. If we are talking hypothetically that he is in the finals then it means he has already rubbed off the no playoff experience **** in the 1st 3 rounds. Tristan thompson will be a nice with the 2nd unit and i think can outplay boozer. Duncan is a great player no doubt but its time for him to pass the torch to a superior PF in davis.

Lebron is lebron. You cant focua your defense on him because he also has anthony davis who also attracts the defense. Thats whats great with this duo.

Beadley beal is underated and can spot up and create his own shot and with lebron and davis commanding the defensove attention i think beal will br the xfactor or this series.

Chris paul dominates this but i dont trust him as the no.1 scoring option and if you say the spurs will play team ball anyway so paul doesnt have to score that much i think atleast one of the spurs need to dominate offensively to beat thia cavs team.

Bench for me is a wash

I have the cavs winning in 6

I disagree with several points you've made, mainly the hyping of Hassan in an NBA finals series and comparing this Cavs team with the Miami Heat team, but I appreciate you giving your thoughts as to why you think they would win. It seems only the people voting for the Spurs are explaining their answers.

The Miami Heat team had 3 primed veterans who had the talent and experience to excel in the playoffs. They had 2 top 5 players AND a top 15 player. They all played defense. It's in comparable.

Redrum187
02-27-2015, 02:25 PM
I will respond more in depth when I get back from class (which is also why I couldn't do a write-up), but some of you are seriously underselling LeBron and AD here, 2 top 5 players in the entire world.

You also are underrating Hassan and Darren if you seriously think that JJ Redick and DeMarre Carroll are quality NBA Finals starters. The Spurs having those 2 wings as starters seriously hampers his ability to attack one of my only weaknesses: wing defense.

But like I said I will respond more later

The Spurs are loaded with offensive and defensive wing players. Redick, Middleton, Carroll, Shumpert, Tucker are all capable of putting up 10+ ppg in limited minutes. Is LeBron going to guard every pick and roll the Spurs do? I don't think so... Chris Paul and Duncan can do it on one side of the floor, Redick and Horford on the other. LeBron and Davis can only guard one of them... The Cavs will get exposed as playoff basketball DEMANDS defense.

Hell, look at Khris Middleton alone. He has been beasting so well lately that the Bucks finally gave him 34 minutes per game in Feb. With that he is shooting 50.8% fg, 17 points, 6.1 rebounds and 3.0 assist per game.

Furthermore, the wings are role players who space the floor, cut to the basket, and make the perfect pass. Chris Paul is the facilitator and the bread and butter are Duncan and Horford. The Cavs wings are the ones needed to be called upon for points. Unfortunately, they require shooting a high volume, low efficiency, by chucking from beyond the arch (with the exception of LeBron).

With the lack of defense from Cavs wings, the Spurs wings will score more than they typically do due to the lack of defense.

Also, no one undersells LeBron or Davis. LeBron is arguably the best player on the planet, Davis is arguably a top 5 regular season player. They just don't compare to the overall talent and experience of Chris Paul, Tim Duncan, and Al Horford.

As far as the underrating Whiteside and Collison... yeah... no... It's pretty fair. He has phenomenal upside but he is not a starting C on a championship caliber team [yet]. He is ultra raw offensively and while blocking a lot of shots, he has low basketball IQ. Collison is a Jose Calderon caliber type of starter. Serviceable on a bad team, but not on a championship squad that already has plenty of holes to begin with.

Bruno
02-27-2015, 02:35 PM
Cavs in maybe 6, probably 7.

Kaner
02-27-2015, 02:35 PM
Still not convinced Cleveland doesn't win this. The experience difference is big but played up a little in the write-up. If Varejao is healthy then he's another guy with alot of playoff experience on Cleveland. I know there's questions about Collison and, especially, Whiteside but, I don't think it's as big of a deal as some others are playing it up to be. Both appear to be starting caliber players and I don't think they're as big of a liability in a real finals as they are considered in this game. Another problem in the write-up that I don't agree with is Cleveland's Wing depth as a huge liability. Redick's the worst defender by far getting significant minutes in the series, Middleton should be starting imo. None of San Antonio wing's are ball handlers or threats to go off in the series.

Am going with Cleveland because Lebron and Davis are too good.

Sanjay
02-27-2015, 08:44 PM
My actual Finals prediction, although the teams are different lol. Got Spurs in a sweep in real-life, but going with the Cavs in 7 here even though they have no write-up haha. Lebron+Davis > Paul+Duncan and Cleveland's bench is better too. Wow, just locked this up at ten votes all lol.

Shammyguy3
02-27-2015, 08:49 PM
finally a close series

Shammyguy3
02-28-2015, 06:38 PM
bump

Shammyguy3
03-01-2015, 07:55 PM
40 minutes left to vote

unleashthebeast
03-01-2015, 10:22 PM
He has 6 people with less than 5 votes:

YaoMing11 (0 posts)
GoBroncos!! (0 posts)
GunSlingerDave (0 posts)
Misfits85 (1 posts)
NathanAsari (0 posts)
RooBaller (4 posts)


sooooooooooooooooooo I win?

Redrum187
03-01-2015, 11:07 PM
Was there a quota of how many votes a voter must have?

Ryu (Golden State Warriors) himself didn't even have 100 posts...

unleashthebeast
03-01-2015, 11:33 PM
I mean that's always been a rule in mock games

Redrum187
03-01-2015, 11:34 PM
Then what is the quota? lol

unleashthebeast
03-01-2015, 11:38 PM
It's always been under 100 posts in other games. I'm positive people with 0 posts won't count though haha, they could easily be dupes

Matter.
03-01-2015, 11:43 PM
100

Redrum187
03-01-2015, 11:44 PM
But some GMs didn't even have 100 post... I would think it should be in the rules that a person must have 100 or more post to have a team and/or to vote. Either way, I don't mind. If they are dupes, anyone caught duping should get the vote removed and 1 though (I'm not the commissioner though).

I guess I would have made more of a case/argument had I known there was a hidden rule (100 quota limit). :eyebrow:

GoBroncos!!
03-01-2015, 11:46 PM
I made my account earlier today. No one told me I wasn't allowed to vote.

Redrum187
03-01-2015, 11:48 PM
I made my account earlier today. No one told me I wasn't allowed to vote.

Are you new to PSD? Do you have a dupe account?

GoBroncos!!
03-01-2015, 11:50 PM
Yeah, I'm new. And I'm not a dupe. I'm here for the Broncos forum.

Shammyguy3
03-02-2015, 12:51 AM
It's always been under 100 posts in other games. I'm positive people with 0 posts won't count though haha, they could easily be dupes

I checked their IP addresses, no dupes of other users on this site.

Matter.
03-02-2015, 12:52 AM
but its a given rule.......

Redrum187
03-02-2015, 01:10 AM
It was a fun game. I was surprised it was as close as it was. Congratulations to everyone.

My first win on PSD. :)

Shammyguy3
03-02-2015, 01:35 AM
but its a given rule.......

.................................................. ..................................

Matter.
03-02-2015, 01:36 AM
Damn UTB getting screwed twice in the past year?

Redrum187
03-02-2015, 01:38 AM
Damn UTB getting screwed twice in the past year?

No one got screwed. UTB did a fantastic job creating his team. It was a good match up.

unleashthebeast
03-02-2015, 02:05 AM
It's whatever, it's just a bulls mock. It has always been a rule though, so it's pretty dumb that it doesn't apply here