PDA

View Full Version : Clippers need to revamp the roster!



TheBatchelor213
02-16-2015, 05:54 AM
Some may not agree but I've been feeling this way for a while. My apologies for some of the errors on the dates for the Cassel, Brand years, just a brain lapse.

Honestly though they need to do something or they will be back in the gutter in three years*

http://youtu.be/3HK1iiPv8Uc

goingfor28
02-16-2015, 05:56 AM
DTS is gone. They arent going to go back to the old clippers. The new ownership, Ballmer, is committed to winning. Doc just needs to give up him GM title and get an actual GM on the team.
Talk about overreaction

TheBatchelor213
02-16-2015, 06:02 AM
Don't think it's an over reaction unless they are happy with continual second round exits.

Laker Legend42
02-16-2015, 08:05 AM
DTS is gone. They arent going to go back to the old clippers. The new ownership, Ballmer, is committed to winning. Doc just needs to give up him GM title and get an actual GM on the team.
Talk about overreaction
The only difference between then and now is that they have a better roster. They haven't done anything. I think part of the problem is that they act like they have. Clippers and their fans talk about L.A is now a clipper town and still haven't won the division yet. It's crazy how the stepchildren of L.A (clippers & ucla) feel like once the lakers and Trojans fall back its automatically their turn. They become interesting people start to pay attention but they don't win. The clippers don't need to be revamped just tweaked. Soon as doc figures out that all the turnover and picking up every NBA vet that's looking for a job they will be fine.

beasted86
02-16-2015, 09:28 AM
Don't think it's an over reaction unless they are happy with continual second round exits.

Were you happy with the multiple losing seasons before this? Which is better, 2nd round losses or bottom 5 records in multiple seasons?

Hangin n Wangin
02-16-2015, 12:38 PM
The only difference between then and now is that they have a better roster. They haven't done anything. I think part of the problem is that they act like they have. Clippers and their fans talk about L.A is now a clipper town and still haven't won the division yet. It's crazy how the stepchildren of L.A (clippers & ucla) feel like once the lakers and Trojans fall back its automatically their turn. They become interesting people start to pay attention but they don't win. The clippers don't need to be revamped just tweaked. Soon as doc figures out that all the turnover and picking up every NBA vet that's looking for a job they will be fine.

Did you just call ucla the step children on LA? That's seriously the comment of an ignoramus.

FOXHOUND
02-16-2015, 12:48 PM
Elephant in the room is Chris Paul, isn't it? I mean, at what point do people start to realize that he isn't as good of a lead player as so many try to make him sound? How many excuses does he get? I know it's college, but how many people know that his team got upset and knocked out in March Madness by a team that ended up having zero NBA players?

It just kind of seems that Chris Paul led teams end up underachieving when the lights get brightest. Even one of the two playoff series' that the Clippers have won with Paul, the first one vs Memphis, look how it happened. They won game 7 on a 4th quarter comeback when all the starters were out of the game. You had Nick Young and Kenyon Martin out there winning them a playoff series.

Chronz
02-16-2015, 01:02 PM
Heres the sad truth, we've made our bed, now we must lay in it. The only way you can revamp the roster is to completely blow it up. CP3 pretty much held the team hostage when he forced us to go for Doc Rivers. Cost us a pick in that, Doc has cost us a pick just to get rid of a rotational caliber player in order to sit the likes of Udoh. We have traded away all of our disposable assets, thats why the Bledsoe chip was SOOO crucial. We ****ed that up hard and its all because of Doc. Hes not humble enough to step down and CP3 will never back us hiring a new coach so it seems like Balmer gonna have to axe him and CP3 in 1 swoop.


That said, we have a BRILLIANT starting unit. I cant believe how good this team is given their crippled management. Blake isn't an ideal cornerstone but hes still a highly talented player. Give them more time, the team has overachieved every year, you just have to come to grips with DJ and Blake's slow learning curve as it pertains to playoff basketball.

Chronz
02-16-2015, 01:11 PM
Elephant in the room is Chris Paul, isn't it? I mean, at what point do people start to realize that he isn't as good of a lead player as so many try to make him sound?
When he shows us. Hes every bit the player hes made out to be.


How many excuses does he get?



I know it's college, but how many people know that his team got upset and knocked out in March Madness by a team that ended up having zero NBA players?

You're right, it is College and has no bearing on their impact as professionals. A 1 and done tournament is prone to randomness.


It just kind of seems that Chris Paul led teams end up underachieving when the lights get brightest.
Based on what?


Even one of the two playoff series' that the Clippers have won with Paul, the first one vs Memphis, look how it happened. They won game 7 on a 4th quarter comeback when all the starters were out of the game. You had Nick Young and Kenyon Martin out there winning them a playoff series.
You mean the series where we defeated a superior team with the likes of Blake and DJ neutered and in way over their heads (they were youngsters). Bledsoe was literally his best sidekick and he was his backup. Yeah thats totally underachieving. They didn't win an entire series in 1 setting, they won 4 complete games to win that series, and did so without HCA. I was there live for those games, the amount of attention CP3 received and seeing him play through nagging injuries was nothing short of inspiring. I guess some people need to see him live to really understand the intensity he plays with. Hes a 5"11 PG who wont back down from a 6"11 Scoring champ. Cant blame CP3, the Clippers dont lose for lack of offense, despite facing elite defenses, CP3 gets the team playing at an efficient level, its not his job to anchor a defense and own the boards, that falls on our young bigs. Sadly they havent been up to the task. Clips always lose to better teams.

Laker Legend42
02-16-2015, 01:35 PM
Did you just call ucla the step children on LA? That's seriously the comment of an ignoramus.

Why the name calling? I should have specified. In football are they or are they not the stepchildren? If you say no then you're the ignoramus.

Laker Legend42
02-16-2015, 01:41 PM
Heres the sad truth, we've made our bed, now we must lay in it. The only way you can revamp the roster is to completely blow it up. CP3 pretty much held the team hostage when he forced us to go for Doc Rivers. Cost us a pick in that, Doc has cost us a pick just to get rid of a rotational caliber player in order to sit the likes of Udoh. We have traded away all of our disposable assets, thats why the Bledsoe chip was SOOO crucial. We ****ed that up hard and its all because of Doc. Hes not humble enough to step down and CP3 will never back us hiring a new coach so it seems like Balmer gonna have to axe him and CP3 in 1 swoop.


That said, we have a BRILLIANT starting unit. I cant believe how good this team is given their crippled management. Blake isn't an ideal cornerstone but hes still a highly talented player. Give them more time, the team has overachieved every year, you just have to come to grips with DJ and Blake's slow learning curve as it pertains to playoff basketball.i think he also stiffles the growth of big men. To play with cp3 you don't need a post Game because all he wants to do is throw lobs. So no one works on a post game and they never improve. DeAndre Jordan shuold be better offensively by now.

FOXHOUND
02-16-2015, 01:49 PM
When he shows us. Hes every bit the player hes made out to be.

From a statistical standpoint? I agree. From a winning standpoint? I do not. When I look at Paul I see a highly talented player who plays the game the right way, mostly, and is ultra competitive. I say mostly because he also has a tendency to flop like a fish any chance he gets, and to me that shows a soft nature. His tough act is a facade, and it's a trait his teams also seem to have. When push comes to shove, when playoff games get physical, Chris Paul led teams tend to flop like a fish.

You know, how Chris Paul was on the wrong end of the worst playoff blowout in NBA history. There's a conference where a 55-win team routinely plays a 40-win team in the first round, and no team has ever been stomped on worse than when the Melo led Nuggets stomped on Paul's Hornets.



You're right, it is College and has no bearing on their impact as professionals. A 1 and done tournament is prone to randomness.

Sure, but that's only the early stages of him leading a team. Yes, it's college and a lot can change from college to the NBA. It's a trend that has continued to the NBA, in my opinion. In the postseason, his teams don't raise their level of play and do get upset in playoff series.


Based on what?

Based on his career. Based on every year he and his team get hyped and fall short of expectations. Based on since he's been a Clipper they have been hyped as contenders every year, and meanwhile have won two playoff series in three years, one squeaked out when the starters weren't even in the game. They've made the second round twice, they got swept once and lost 4-2 the other time. The other time in crucial game 5, Chris Paul failed late and they lost.


You mean the series where we defeated a superior team with the likes of Blake and DJ neutered and in way over their heads (they were youngsters). Bledsoe was literally his best sidekick and he was his backup. Yeah thats totally underachieving. They didn't win an entire series in 1 setting, they won 4 complete games to win that series, and did so without HCA. I was there live for those games, the amount of attention CP3 received and seeing him play through nagging injuries was nothing short of inspiring. I guess some people need to see him live to really understand the intensity he plays with. Hes a 5"11 PG who wont back down from a 6"11 Scoring champ. Cant blame CP3, the Clippers dont lose for lack of offense, despite facing elite defenses, CP3 gets the team playing at an efficient level, its not his job to anchor a defense and own the boards, that falls on our young bigs. Sadly they havent been up to the task. Clips always lose to better teams.

The Grizzlies were the 4th seed and the Clippers the 5th, they won ONE more game than the Clippers that year. Don't make it sound like this was a 1/2 seed upset or something, they were very equal teams. And yes, that series when it came down to it at the end, was won by the Clippers bench. At the end of the day, when all the chips were in during game 7 with the Clippers down in the 4th looking like they were going to be eliminated, it was the bench that was on the court BADLY outplaying the Grizzlies starters to lead them to a series win. One quarter doesn't win a series, but without that quarter the Clippers are not winning that series either. That's more credit to the Clippers bench than anything, but the fact is Chris Paul and the starters were not on the court for that and therefore had zero impact on it.

Blake scored 18 PPG on 53% that series, he was fine. Bledsoe scored 5 PPG, pretty sure he wasn't a sidekick of any kind that year. Chris Paul was not on the court when that series was decided in game 7, therefore he wasn't impacting anything when it matters most.

The next season, when they lost in the first round vs Memphis, they did have HCA. They were the #4 seed and Memphis the #5. They won the same amount of games. The Clippers lost 4-2.

The other playoff series they have won with Paul came last year vs Golden State, when they were pushed to game 7 in the first round as the #3 seed and as a 57-win team.

FOXHOUND
02-16-2015, 01:59 PM
i think he also stiffles the growth of big men. To play with cp3 you don't need a post Game because all he wants to do is throw lobs. So no one works on a post game and they never improve. DeAndre Jordan shuold be better offensively by now.

I don't think that's true/fair to say about Paul. Blake Griffin has progressed to tremendous levels and has been using a post game for years. DeAndre Jordan just isn't that skilled offensively.

Laker Legend42
02-16-2015, 02:56 PM
I don't think that's true/fair to say about Paul. Blake Griffin has progressed to tremendous levels and has been using a post game for years. DeAndre Jordan just isn't that skilled offensively.i think Blake has improved in spite of Chris Paul. You are starting with a better product with Blake. Go back to when cp3 was in New Orleans. He wasn't as effective after Tyson chandler left. Let me also say that it's not Chris Paul's fault the DeAndre hasn't improved he can work on his own. Even if he did he would never get the ball in the post.

Hawkeye15
02-16-2015, 04:19 PM
Heres the sad truth, we've made our bed, now we must lay in it. The only way you can revamp the roster is to completely blow it up. CP3 pretty much held the team hostage when he forced us to go for Doc Rivers. Cost us a pick in that, Doc has cost us a pick just to get rid of a rotational caliber player in order to sit the likes of Udoh. We have traded away all of our disposable assets, thats why the Bledsoe chip was SOOO crucial. We ****ed that up hard and its all because of Doc. Hes not humble enough to step down and CP3 will never back us hiring a new coach so it seems like Balmer gonna have to axe him and CP3 in 1 swoop.


That said, we have a BRILLIANT starting unit. I cant believe how good this team is given their crippled management. Blake isn't an ideal cornerstone but hes still a highly talented player. Give them more time, the team has overachieved every year, you just have to come to grips with DJ and Blake's slow learning curve as it pertains to playoff basketball.

if you can finally enter the playoffs with a healthy starting unit, the Clips are a team that will be a tough, tough out. There is just no wiggle room if one of the key guys is hurt, your depth and bench are really not very good.

I agree, Doc needs to go. Too much power

2-ONE-5
02-16-2015, 04:27 PM
Elephant in the room is Chris Paul, isn't it? I mean, at what point do people start to realize that he isn't as good of a lead player as so many try to make him sound? How many excuses does he get? I know it's college, but how many people know that his team got upset and knocked out in March Madness by a team that ended up having zero NBA players?

It just kind of seems that Chris Paul led teams end up underachieving when the lights get brightest. Even one of the two playoff series' that the Clippers have won with Paul, the first one vs Memphis, look how it happened. They won game 7 on a 4th quarter comeback when all the starters were out of the game. You had Nick Young and Kenyon Martin out there winning them a playoff series.

i agree with you msotly but come on there is no need to reach like that. tehre are dozensa nd doxens of good/great NBA players whose teams lost to mid major schools with no future nba talent

Tony_Starks
02-16-2015, 05:01 PM
Overreaction city. Once Clippers get in the playoffs they are still in the upper tier as far as chances to represent the west go, along with Dubbs Blazers Grizzlies. It all will depend on the matchup, I think they really need that third spot. You damn sure don't 2 because OKC will probably be 7.....

Cracka2HI!
02-16-2015, 05:05 PM
The only difference between then and now is that they have a better roster. They haven't done anything. I think part of the problem is that they act like they have. Clippers and their fans talk about L.A is now a clipper town and still haven't won the division yet. It's crazy how the stepchildren of L.A (clippers & ucla) feel like once the lakers and Trojans fall back its automatically their turn. They become interesting people start to pay attention but they don't win. The clippers don't need to be revamped just tweaked. Soon as doc figures out that all the turnover and picking up every NBA vet that's looking for a job they will be fine.This whole post is garbage but this is the most incorrect part. Talk about short term memory problems. Tough to take anything someone says that can't remember the last 2 division champions.

http://www.nba.com/clippers/news/divisional-title-story

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Division_%28NBA%29

As for what this thread is actually about. The Clippers roster is broken right now and it may be beyond repair. I'm hoping the team can pick up a couple buyout players to fill out the roster and hit on the MLE next offseason. The salary cap is being reported to increase greatly in 2016. Hopefully the team can hold it together until then and Ballmer can throw money at the problem and fix it. We all know Doc is the problem hopefully he steps down.

Right now Jamal Crawford is probably the only tradeable part. Maybe Hawes. Either way I don't trust Doc to make anymore trades. He gotten raped in every trade so I hope he's done making moves. Someone needs to be able to tell him that all of his moves are garbage and he needs to focus on the coaching. I'm hoping Ballmer can bring in a superstar to run the FO. That's what the team really needs.

JAZZNC
02-16-2015, 06:17 PM
i agree with you msotly but come on there is no need to reach like that. tehre are dozensa nd doxens of good/great NBA players whose teams lost to mid major schools with no future nba talent

Yes but I don't think that anybody really saw what happened and paid serious attention to how things happened at Wake. I am a Wake fan so I watched every game he played in college and he never went anywhere. Great regular season but failed miserably in the post season against much inferior talent, a trend that has continued in the NBA(not so much the severely inferior talent part). There is something to it.

Laker Legend42
02-16-2015, 06:56 PM
Yes but I don't think that anybody really saw what happened and paid serious attention to how things happened at Wake. I am a Wake fan so I watched every game he played in college and he never went anywhere. Great regular season but failed miserably in the post season against much inferior talent, a trend that has continued in the NBA(not so much the severely inferior talent part). There is something to it.my fault they did win the division. You say everything I said was garbage but you basically agree with me when talking about doc rivers. I also think he's killing the locker room chemistry. I'll bet some guys were turned off when he brought his dump truck of a son in.

Bruno
02-16-2015, 08:09 PM
I think they should trade Deandre for a quality SF if possible, and sign Larry Sanders if he gets bought out (or trade for him at his low value point now if the bucks don't buy him out). hes in the middle of a career crisis but if his skills can be maximized he's a legit NBA rim protector.

crazy idea- but the Clippers should take a stab at melo if DeAndre is interested in playing in NY, and if Phil is interested in DeAndre. DeAndre, Crawford, Hawes and a future first could be an interesting return for Melo if Phil wants to go younger and get out from the Carmelo contract. He can ship off Hawes and Crawford to playoff teams looking to upgrade in the off-season for picks or young assets. Build around this years first, DeAndre, Hardaway, Larkin, Thomas, Galloway, and the 40+ million they'll have in cap space. Melo might waive that trade clause if he gets to join a starting lineup with Cp3, JJ, Blake and potentially Sanders. i think there's potential on both sides but I don't think the Clippers will even consider trading DeAndre unless Sanders becomes available, if Doc thinks he can take that on. I think it's his only way of getting out of the hole he's dug himself. Trade DeAndre for wing help and make a diamond out of Sanders.

2-ONE-5
02-16-2015, 08:14 PM
Yes but I don't think that anybody really saw what happened and paid serious attention to how things happened at Wake. I am a Wake fan so I watched every game he played in college and he never went anywhere. Great regular season but failed miserably in the post season against much inferior talent, a trend that has continued in the NBA(not so much the severely inferior talent part). There is something to it.

eh we saw Parker go down to Mercer last year,Wiggins **** the bed in the 2nd rd vs NM and tons more do the same in college.

Cracka2HI!
02-16-2015, 08:15 PM
my fault they did win the division. You say everything I said was garbage but you basically agree with me when talking about doc rivers. I also think he's killing the locker room chemistry. I'll bet some guys were turned off when he brought his dump truck of a son in.

Good God, you can't even quote the right post.

Laker Legend42
02-16-2015, 09:20 PM
I
Good God, you can't even quote the right post.
iPad screen jumps around at times. I hit the wrong one cool out don't be an idiot. You can disagree with whatever I say without all the extras.

smith&wesson
02-16-2015, 09:43 PM
I still think the clips are one upgrade at sf away from contention. but that's just my opinion.

PowerHouse
02-16-2015, 10:31 PM
I think they should trade Deandre for a quality SF if possible, and sign Larry Sanders if he gets bought out (or trade for him at his low value point now if the bucks don't buy him out). hes in the middle of a career crisis but if his skills can be maximized he's a legit NBA rim protector.

crazy idea- but the Clippers should take a stab at melo if DeAndre is interested in playing in NY, and if Phil is interested in DeAndre. DeAndre, Crawford, Hawes and a future first could be an interesting return for Melo if Phil wants to go younger and get out from the Carmelo contract. He can ship off Hawes and Crawford to playoff teams looking to upgrade in the off-season for picks or young assets. Build around this years first, DeAndre, Hardaway, Larkin, Thomas, Galloway, and the 40+ million they'll have in cap space. Melo might waive that trade clause if he gets to join a starting lineup with Cp3, JJ, Blake and potentially Sanders. i think there's potential on both sides but I don't think the Clippers will even consider trading DeAndre unless Sanders becomes available, if Doc thinks he can take that on. I think it's his only way of getting out of the hole he's dug himself. Trade DeAndre for wing help and make a diamond out of Sanders.

Trading a 25 yr old top 10 (possibly top 6-7) center would be a foolish move. That kind of size with that kind of athletisism is unteachable and scarce. I would wait until off-season and maybe sign a quality FA like Carroll from the Hawks. That would be a nice upgrade at the 3 without breaking the bank or trading any key components.

THE MTL
02-16-2015, 11:43 PM
They need to keep that team together. Hawks, Spurs have shown us the benefits of keeping your core intact. While the Pistons have shown us the mistake of blowing up your core.

PowerHouse
02-17-2015, 12:30 AM
^Totally agree with that but maybe the Hawks are a bad example. Joe Johnson and Josh Smith used to be part of that "core".

Chronz
02-17-2015, 01:10 AM
i think he also stiffles the growth of big men. To play with cp3 you don't need a post Game because all he wants to do is throw lobs. So no one works on a post game and they never improve. DeAndre Jordan shuold be better offensively by now.
Nonsense, CP3 is actually very hesitant to throw lobs, he doesn't really like high risk passing. Not sure why you would think that. We used to run the beginning play of every game with a traditional post play for DJ, if anyone stopped that, it was Doc. Improving skillset is up to the individual, not his teammates.



From a statistical standpoint? I agree. From a winning standpoint? I do not.
Winning is a result of the entire team, not just one player so its a hallow complaint as you've argued it. Individual production is FAR more the result of a single players ability than controlling the entire fate of his team is. This is a sport where the best player in the league can miss the playoffs entirely so you're gonna have to be alil less vague to quantify a players ability to win.


When I look at Paul I see a highly talented player who plays the game the right way, mostly, and is ultra competitive. I say mostly because he also has a tendency to flop like a fish any chance he gets, and to me that shows a soft nature. His tough act is a facade, and it's a trait his teams also seem to have. When push comes to shove, when playoff games get physical, Chris Paul led teams tend to flop like a fish.
So long as hes drawing fouls, whatever flopping you see is helping his team win. Flops account for such a minuscule aspect of the game that, if thats the only complaint towards his competitiveness, it really shows you how intense he plays. That something that HELPS his team win is being held against him really shows you how cerebral he is.



You know, how Chris Paul was on the wrong end of the worst playoff blowout in NBA history.
You do know he was injured and was on a team that was heavily overmatched, right?


There's a conference where a 55-win team routinely plays a 40-win team in the first round, and no team has ever been stomped on worse than when the Melo led Nuggets stomped on Paul's Hornets.
I disagree with them being led by Melo, it was Chauncey's team as much as it was Melo's. Either way, whats the significance? Its not like its CP3 vs Melo, its Nuggets vs Hornets, with CP3 injured and Melo with a teammate arguably more important than he leading a superior/healthier club.



Sure, but that's only the early stages of him leading a team. Yes, it's college and a lot can change from college to the NBA. It's a trend that has continued to the NBA, in my opinion. In the postseason, his teams don't raise their level of play and do get upset in playoff series.

I dont see how the trend has continued when he has never lost to an inferior team.



Based on his career. Based on every year he and his team get hyped and fall short of expectations.
What are you basing these expectations on? Any sort of objective evidence or just more vague conjecture?


Based on since he's been a Clipper they have been hyped as contenders every year, and meanwhile have won two playoff series in three years, one squeaked out when the starters weren't even in the game. They've made the second round twice, they got swept once and lost 4-2 the other time. The other time in crucial game 5, Chris Paul failed late and they lost.
Im not seeing how that falls on him when hes done his job. Im sorry but whatever hype you're hearing doesn't outweigh reality. The REALITY is that his teammates were not up to par.



The Grizzlies were the 4th seed and the Clippers the 5th, they won ONE more game than the Clippers that year. Don't make it sound like this was a 1/2 seed upset or something,
Where did I make it sound that way? Stop relying on strawman arguments and debate against the facts I actually laid out. Grizz had HCA, massive leads, and still lost. The Grizzlies were the superior team, particularly when you consider we were depleted by injuries to a greater degree and playing guys who have absolutely struggled with their post season performance. Thats the folly of having a young cast.


they were very equal teams.
Based on what? Even if we granted you that unsubstantiated claim, they STILL had HCA and that in itself makes it an upset. CP3 led one of the greatest comebacks in playoff history this series.


And yes, that series when it came down to it at the end, was won by the Clippers bench.
Nope, it was a series won by 4 games, not just the isolation of a single moment of a single game. Besides, its not like CP3 didn't play at all that 4th quarter.


At the end of the day, when all the chips were in during game 7 with the Clippers down in the 4th looking like they were going to be eliminated, it was the bench that was on the court BADLY outplaying the Grizzlies starters to lead them to a series win. One quarter doesn't win a series, but without that quarter the Clippers are not winning that series either.
At the end of the day, the chips aren't there to be had without winning 4 complete games. Feel free to hold on to the minority proportion, Ill take the ENTIRETY of a series any day. Agree to disagree, nothing determines a game more than the ENTIRE GAME IMO.


That's more credit to the Clippers bench than anything, but the fact is Chris Paul and the starters were not on the court for that and therefore had zero impact on it.
Thats why I was crediting Bledsoe beyond his superficial per game averages. That the likes of Reggie Evans and K-Mart (at that stage in his career) were so integral in a series win only highlights how vulnerable that team was.

They had to make the biggest comeback in NBA playoff history and that was ONLY possible because CP3 refused to go out, he BEGGED his coach to keep him on the floor and give his team a chance. Without that, the series doesn't even reach a game 7. Thats the problem with focusing on such a small portion of a series, it will never exceed the value of an ENTIRE series. Because you dont get to that point without the culminating efforts of the entire team.



Blake scored 18 PPG on 53% that series, he was fine.
Thats just it tho, he was just fine and those archaic stats (which still represent a decline, he was battling through injury as well) become more hallow when you realize how bad he played defensively. Both Reggie and K-Mart were arguably more important when you consider how they manned the paint. Seriously, check out Z-Bo/Marc's numbers when Reggie/K-Mart were on the court vs Blake/DJ.



Bledsoe scored 5 PPG, pretty sure he wasn't a sidekick of any kind that year.
OK so sidekick may have been overstating it, (the following year is more arguable) but those archaic numbers undersell the efficiency (on both ends) and momentum changing plays he made that series. Dude broke out that run. The team was +42 in the minutes he played that series, for playing as little as he did, thats a high level impact.


Chris Paul was not on the court when that series was decided in game 7, therefore he wasn't impacting anything when it matters most.
What matters most is up for debate, I happen to think 100% of a game/series is what matters most. Besides, CP3 was in fact on the court when the series was literally decided.


The next season, when they lost in the first round vs Memphis, they did have HCA. They were the #4 seed and Memphis the #5. They won the same amount of games. The Clippers lost 4-2.
Yes, all true. Blake was in an even worse state than the year prior, he was dealing with back spasms + a badly sprained ankle the rendered him useless as the series wore on. DJ was continuing his post season failures. These are our 2 most important front court players who saw a MASSIVE decline in their production. Its telling that despite playing against elite defensive team, and despite the crumbling of his supporting cast, CP3 still had his team scoring at an efficient rate. The reason they lost was because unlike the year before, we didn't have Reggie and K-Mart to give us something.


The other playoff series they have won with Paul came last year vs Golden State, when they were pushed to game 7 in the first round as the #3 seed and as a 57-win team.
Are we just going to pretend like the Sterling saga never happened, or that GS wasn't an ascending team ready to blow up. But yeah, we should have beat them in 6. Big whoop, we still won.

Chronz
02-17-2015, 01:16 AM
It really is this simple, its not CP3's job to anchor the paint and corral rebounds, that falls on his front court. To win a championship you have to be more than just an elite offensive team. CP3 has held up his end of the bargain.

JJ_JKidd
02-17-2015, 02:46 AM
And I thought yall believe that these Clippers are contenders? They havent even had a sniff of that WCF.

Chronz
02-17-2015, 04:34 AM
And I thought yall believe that these Clippers are contenders? They havent even had a sniff of that WCF.
Define contender. Is being a top3 team in the West a contender (as they were last year)

JJ_JKidd
02-17-2015, 05:00 AM
Define contender. Is being a top3 team in the West a contender (as they were last year)

I dont know how posters here and other basketball "experts" define the word "contender." Hell, the Raptors are even considered as contenders! For me, for a team to be considered as one, they obviously should have a high chance of playing in the conference finals. And I dont see the Clippers, nor the Raptors for that matter, playing past the second round. But thats my 0.02.

I will have to give one of the two slots in the WCF to the Spurs are they are the defending champs unless people want to write them off again, only to look stupid and praise them again in June. So that leaves one more spot in the West.

Now, can the Clippers beat Golden State (they did last year, though), Memphis, Houston, or even Portland in a 7 game series?

Goose17
02-17-2015, 05:31 AM
I dont know how posters here and other basketball "experts" define the word "contender." Hell, the Raptors are even considered as contenders! For me, for a team to be considered as one, they obviously should have a high chance of playing in the conference finals. And I dont see the Clippers, nor the Raptors for that matter, playing past the second round. But thats my 0.02.

I will have to give one of the two slots in the WCF to the Spurs are they are the defending champs unless people want to write them off again, only to look stupid and praise them again in June. So that leaves one more spot in the West.

Now, can the Clippers beat Golden State (they did last year, though), Memphis, Houston, or even Portland in a 7 game series?

Yes
Maybe
Unlikely.
Improbable but not impossible

IKnowHoops
02-17-2015, 06:06 AM
The Clippers play in the west. Every year there are 4 teams with as much talent or better. Splice in the fact that they are injured half the time...they have never been the most talented team or best coached team in the west. On the surface they look very talented. You think #1 PG, top 3 PF, athletic freak center, good floor spacer in JJ, great 6th man in Crawford...then you look at the other teams in the west and they all have a lineup with a bunch of great players and they are all deeper than the Clippers.

Maybe the Clippers have slightly underachieved, maybe not, but blaming CP3 is just stupid. Look at the stats...you don't blame the player with the most productive and efficient stat lines. You blame the guys that were unproductive.

I'd also blame coaching. When Paul was out Blake was killing. The coach needs to make sure the offensive game plan allows blake to flourish. Needs to allow both to flourish. Doc is underachieving. Not CP3.

G_S_W
02-18-2015, 02:07 AM
The Clippers play in the west. Every year there are 4 teams with as much talent or better.

This.

...and I agree with the rest of your post; scapegoating CP3 doesn't make any sense. The fact of the matter is, CP3 is a 5'11" PG who hasn't been the same athletically after knee (meniscus tear) surgery.

Blake is an athletic freak, but at 6'8" with an average-ish wingspan, he will simply never be an elite defender at the 4.

They won 57 games last season and are on pace to win 54 this season. With a significantly upgraded Mavs' roster, with GS playing out of their minds, and with the Grizz anchored by a healthy Gasol, the Clips are actually holding their own.

There are only 2 games separating the 3rd and 7th seed in the west, so the Clips at 6th, just a game and a half out of the 3 spot, are holding their own.

You'd think the Clips were tanking sixers style based on some of the gloom and doom posts in this thread.

Goose17
02-18-2015, 12:10 PM
Weren't Denver trying to get a bite for Wilson Chandler? He would be perfect for the Clips... IMO

Greg.
02-18-2015, 12:34 PM
Haha the Clippers might sweep us in a 7 game series. I think they've won the last 11 out of 12 games against us. I'd rather play the Warriors than the Clippers even though the Warriors are better. The Warriors would still beat us but at least we've beaten them in the last 2 years

Zachattach11
02-18-2015, 01:15 PM
I love reading this because there is a bit of truth in all of it. As a lifetime Lakers fan its been tough to see the neighbors grow into what some think is a Championship caliber team, but the truth is they aren't right now and probably won't be unless they can find role players that can have a bigger impact. You have plenty of Star-Power. It's not as easy as the Miami Heat made it look to win NBA Championships. People dog my team but truth be told it's almost just as tough to win a title starting from the bottom as it is being that team that seems as if they have enough to compete for one but just don't quite have the right pieces. All your assets are tied up and there is little wiggle room and you team just isn't good enough to beat other "Title Contenders".

References- Atlanta Hawks/ Joe Johnson Era... Phoenix Suns/ Steve Nash... Dallas Mavericks finally broke through when they put together a more complete team that competed on both sides of the floor, but were one and done

G_S_W
02-19-2015, 01:45 AM
The clip haters are out in force. Can you believe it? The clips are actually legitimate/good enough to have haters!

CP3 and Griff are/were actually have great seasons; perhaps not quite MVP caliber seasons, but they're not that far off from being included in the debate.

CP3/Griff are just a notch or maybe a half tier below/behind the top combo's in the NBA: durant/west, lillard/LMA, steph/klay, LBJ/Kyrie/Love, etc.

The clips will be in a holding pattern for quite a while: they can't get much better since they're already far above the cap; CP3 is likely entering the downside of his career (although he'll be a top 3 PG for years to come); and Blake simply doesn't have the height or wingspan to either defend long, rangy PF's such as LMA and AD, or to patrol the paint (although in all fairness he doesn't have to be a great frontline defender with DJ).

To be honest, I've become disenchanted with Doc as well. He's developed a reputation for harboring whiners, and the Clips are known throughout the league as crybabies.

It seems their ceiling with the current roster is a second round exit.