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View Full Version : Dragic for a 1st round pick?



WaDe03
02-12-2015, 02:12 PM
It's being reported the Suns want to move Dragic for a 1st round pick. I'm on my phone and don't know how to copy the tweet in here. Seems like a pretty low asking price unless they mean a top 5 lottery pick.

3rd team all-nba one year, traded for a 1st round pick the next lol.

BKdoubleStacker
02-12-2015, 02:19 PM
How is he worth a top 5 pick? He is not even close to being a #1 on a team. His value has taken a hit too imo. Just a really dumb decision to get Isaiah Thomas

LanceUpperCut
02-12-2015, 02:21 PM
He's expiring and having a down year, I'm sure he will fetch more then some high 1st round pick but some mid 1st seems reasonable

Htownballa1622
02-12-2015, 02:25 PM
:dance:

February 18th Goran will be a rocket!

jerellh528
02-12-2015, 02:32 PM
No thanks

JasonJohnHorn
02-12-2015, 02:33 PM
WFT? Why would they trade him? Is this the Suns cutting costs again? Those poor fans in Phoenix. That team is never going to fawking win anything.

I'd certainly give up a first for him. If that is all they are asking, and I was Detroit, I'd call them up and see if they'd take Jennings alone (which they wouldn't do) or Jennings and a first, just to get rid of Jennings. And if not.. I'd settle for just moving the first for him.


Over half first round picks aren't in the league after 5 years, or don't have a significant role... and some never even play. Why not give one up for a guy you know will perform at an All-Star level? I'd ask for top 5 protected, or top 3 at the very least, but Dragic is great.

Chronz
02-12-2015, 02:34 PM
Wish the Suns would just pay us back for giving them Bledsoe, this would be a nice sweetner. Give you guys Jamal Crawford?

Dade County
02-12-2015, 02:40 PM
He could be Miami new version of thunder Dan.

2-ONE-5
02-12-2015, 02:47 PM
Say George comes back for the Pacers do they consider this? If I'm Indy I am targeting Dragic at the very least in Free Agency

archdevil84
02-12-2015, 02:59 PM
would be an awesome fit for miami. but i dont think we have any first round picks

GiantsSwaGG
02-12-2015, 03:00 PM
Rockets should be all over this

WaDe03
02-12-2015, 03:09 PM
would be an awesome fit for miami. but i dont think we have any first round picks

Would be awesome if we could throw something together for him.

Tony_Starks
02-12-2015, 03:22 PM
If they are smart theyll ship him to the Lakers. That would make us just good enough to lose our pick to Phoenix. Jimmy is dumb enough to fall for it....

MILLERHIGHLIFE
02-12-2015, 03:26 PM
If they are smart theyll ship him to the Lakers. That would make us just good enough to lose our pick to Phoenix. Jimmy is dumb enough to fall for it.... Maybe they ask for injured Randle? Yet Goran wins a few games and falls back in lottery then Suns get that pick and Randle that be crazy. Doubt Lakers doing much other then fielding calls for Hill, Davis, Young and Lin. Even though Suns have Morris twins so no need for Randle but still guy on the cheap.

Tony_Starks
02-12-2015, 03:36 PM
If they are smart theyll ship him to the Lakers. That would make us just good enough to lose our pick to Phoenix. Jimmy is dumb enough to fall for it.... Maybe they ask for injured Randle? Yet Goran wins a few games and falls back in lottery then Suns get that pick and Randle that be crazy. Doubt Lakers doing much other then fielding calls for Hill, Davis, Young and Lin. Even though Suns have Morris twins so no need for Randle but still guy on the cheap.

Never Randle. Jimmy is dumb but not THAT dumb. He wouldn't even include Randle in a trade for Rondo. Keep in mind they don't have to trade, they plan on flat out signing him in the summer...

rockets-fan
02-12-2015, 03:36 PM
Houston has The N.O pica shock Will be around The 14-16th pick, there in some young talent as Well as terry(expiring) and maybe they take it?

Redrum187
02-12-2015, 03:37 PM
Good Lord! The Rockets need to get this now!

PG: Goran Dragic
SG: James Harden
SF: Trevor Ariza
PF: Terrance Jones
C: Dwight Howard

When healthy, that squad will be really good! The Dragic/Beverly combo would be perfect.

Redrum187
02-12-2015, 03:39 PM
I would also like a Dragic/Ellis pairing for the Mavericks. It would fit better than Rondo. I doubt Dallas does this though.

Maybe give up Rondo + Raymond Felton + 1st round pick for Dragic and Wright lol... They could use Wright right about now.

PG: Goran Dragic - Devin Harris - JJ Barea
SG: Monta Ellis - Richard Jefferson - Ricky Ledo
SF: Chandler Parsons - Al-Farouq Aminu
PF: Dirk Nowitzki - Charlie Villanueva
C : Tyson Chandler - Brandan Wright

Probably not going to happen.

Kaner
02-12-2015, 03:46 PM
Would be awesome if Bulls got involved, I'd do Taj and 2 1st's if Bulls are willing to extend him.

HoopsDrive
02-12-2015, 03:47 PM
Rockets would look nice with Dragic.

Redrum187
02-12-2015, 03:49 PM
Would be awesome if Bulls got involved, I'd do Taj and 2 1st's if Bulls are willing to extend him.

I'd like Afflalo more than Dragic for the Bulls. Although, Dragic over Rose is a huge upgrade. Rose is a mediocre PG who can't be counted on to play, at this point in his career. If they could sacrifice their future to get both, it would definitely put them on par with any team in the East.

PG: Goran Dragic
SG: Aron Afflalo
SF: Jimmy Butler
PF: Pau Gasol
C: Joakim Noah

Redrum187
02-12-2015, 03:50 PM
Rockets would look nice with Dragic.

They would look dangerous for sure!

JustinTime
02-12-2015, 03:50 PM
good ennis will finally get to play

Tumstock
02-12-2015, 04:01 PM
I would also like a Dragic/Ellis pairing for the Mavericks. It would fit better than Rondo. I doubt Dallas does this though.

Maybe give up Rondo + Raymond Felton + 1st round pick for Dragic and Wright lol... They could use Wright right about now.

PG: Goran Dragic - Devin Harris - JJ Barea
SG: Monta Ellis - Richard Jefferson - Ricky Ledo
SF: Chandler Parsons - Al-Farouq Aminu
PF: Dirk Nowitzki - Charlie Villanueva
C : Tyson Chandler - Brandan Wright

Probably not going to happen.

Wright can't go back to dallas this season and Rondo can't be included in a multi-player deal.

Redrum187
02-12-2015, 04:07 PM
Wright can't go back to dallas this season and Rondo can't be included in a multi-player deal.

Touche.

phantasyyy
02-12-2015, 04:39 PM
I'd like Afflalo more than Dragic for the Bulls. Although, Dragic over Rose is a huge upgrade. Rose is a mediocre PG who can't be counted on to play, at this point in his career. If they could sacrifice their future to get both, it would definitely put them on par with any team in the East.

PG: Goran Dragic
SG: Aron Afflalo
SF: Jimmy Butler
PF: Pau Gasol
C: Joakim Noah

Huh?

Saddletramp
02-12-2015, 04:45 PM
Houston has The N.O pica shock Will be around The 14-16th pick, there in some young talent as Well as terry(expiring) and maybe they take it?

That's the trade I was thinking. Maybe add an extra second rounder?

JEDean89
02-12-2015, 05:00 PM
Knicks should send a lotto protected 2018 pick for this is they want him. Gives us Dragic and Melo going into the offseason, where we could resign him, draft Mudiay, and sign a big. A Dragic/Mudiay backcourt? Where do I sign up!

Redrum187
02-12-2015, 05:02 PM
Huh?

I said, Rose is a mediocre point guard at this point. Dragic would be a tremendous upgrade. Do you disagree? If so, why?

king4day
02-12-2015, 05:02 PM
McDonough won't deal Dragic for a late first rounder. If a team was dumb enough to trade an unprotected lottery pick in the top 10, then maybe he considers it but that's it.
Also, people need to stop ranking on the Suns. This rumor is coming form a Bucks journalist. For all we know, it's 100% made up to get some extra followers on his twitter page for 'more info in the future'..

mightybosstone
02-12-2015, 06:49 PM
If Phoenix is serious about dealing Dragic, I can't imagine any serious contender will be able to offer a better deal to Dragic than Houston. Not only do they possess New Orleans' first rounder, but they have two early second round picks (New York and Denver) and a slew of talented young guys, including Jones, Motiejunas, Papanikolaou, Beverley, Shved, Canaan, Capela and Johnson.

The questions are:
1. Is Phoenix willing to give up on the chance to re-sign him in the offseason?
2. What else is Phoenix looking to get out of a deal?
3. What is Morey willing to give up?

If Morey doesn't want to give up the pieces Phoenix is requesting, then there are other teams out there who could certainly use Dragic. But if you're a cellar dweller like LA, would you want to spend a high first round pick on a guy with zero guarantee he's going to be on your squad in a few months? I just don't see that happening. New Orleans' first is probably the best pick they could possibly expect to get.

BKdoubleStacker
02-12-2015, 06:53 PM
It doesn't really seem like Phoenix believes in him much even though I think he's their best player. He flourished last year and they have put him in a bad position this year

beasted86
02-12-2015, 07:00 PM
If Phoenix is serious about dealing Dragic, I can't imagine any serious contender will be able to offer a better deal to Dragic than Houston. Not only do they possess New Orleans' first rounder, but they have two early second round picks (New York and Denver) and a slew of talented young guys, including Jones, Motiejunas, Papanikolaou, Beverley, Shved, Canaan, Capela and Johnson.

The questions are:
1. Is Phoenix willing to give up on the chance to re-sign him in the offseason?
2. What else is Phoenix looking to get out of a deal?
3. What is Morey willing to give up?

If Morey doesn't want to give up the pieces Phoenix is requesting, then there are other teams out there who could certainly use Dragic. But if you're a cellar dweller like LA, would you want to spend a high first round pick on a guy with zero guarantee he's going to be on your squad in a few months? I just don't see that happening. New Orleans' first is probably the best pick they could possibly expect to get.

In all likelihood Dragic will go after a max contract this summer or near max. Are you suggesting you're comfortable with Morey not giving Parsons his money, only to give Dragic (an older player) that same exact money and give up assets to acquire him in the first place?

Impact wise they are similar #3 option caliber.

nycericanguy
02-12-2015, 07:02 PM
In all likelihood Dragic will go after a max contract this summer or near max. Are you suggesting you're comfortable with Morey not giving Parsons his money, only to give Dragic (an older player) that same exact money and give up assets to acquire him in the first place?

Impact wise they are similar #3 option caliber.

I don't think you pass on Dragic just because you made a mistake on parsons... that would just be making the mistake worse...lol. Who else should HOU go after?

Dragic is a great player. If they can get him for a couple of picks and a young player it would be foolish not to.

DubbyDubbs
02-12-2015, 07:12 PM
As a raptors fan, I would
Give up a 1st to see him take every minute of vasquez's and as of late, Ross too. What the raptors need is a big man but I'd take Dragic. This assuming of course "1st round pick" means any 1st round pick including the very late rounders.

beasted86
02-12-2015, 07:26 PM
I don't think you pass on Dragic just because you made a mistake on parsons... that would just be making the mistake worse...lol. Who else should HOU go after?

Dragic is a great player. If they can get him for a couple of picks and a young player it would be foolish not to.

You might be making some sense if Rockets fans viewed not giving Parsons the max as a mistake. But in truth they said it was absolutely the right thing to do, and felt a player of his caliber wasn't worth that much.

rockets-fan
02-12-2015, 07:51 PM
You might be making some sense if Rockets fans viewed not giving Parsons the max as a mistake. But in truth they said it was absolutely the right thing to do, and felt a player of his caliber wasn't worth that much.

Paraons didn't deserve the max I still stand by that.

Viewing the players Individually, yes they have similar #3 option skills, but on the rockets, Dragics value is higher than Parsons was, as you can see by the record this year.

IndyRealist
02-12-2015, 08:05 PM
That's not really cheap, considering he can opt out and will get (over) paid. If he wants to come to Indy, we've got space in the backcourt and PG will be back next year.

mightybosstone
02-12-2015, 08:20 PM
In all likelihood Dragic will go after a max contract this summer or near max. Are you suggesting you're comfortable with Morey not giving Parsons his money, only to give Dragic (an older player) that same exact money and give up assets to acquire him in the first place?

Impact wise they are similar #3 option caliber.

Two things. First off, Dragic is not likely to get a max deal. Look at the contracts given out to point guards in recent years. Lowry was the best free agent point guard on the market last offseason, and he only got $12 million a year. I think Dragic is likely to get a similar deal, unless he wants to make a huge contract playing for a terrible team.

Secondly, yes, I would be more inclined to offer a big deal to Dragic than Parsons. Why? Because I've seen Dragic be the guy when required and I've seen him play at a level that is worth a big contract. Parsons never played at a level that deserved the contract Dallas gave him. And Parsons' play this season only justified my reservations about him getting that kind of a deal. Also, Dragic's ability to create his own shot and run the offense gives him an added dimension that we haven't seen out of Parsons quite as much.

As for their age, that's kind of a moot point. Because if Dragic gets a four-year deal, he'd still only be 32 at the end of that deal. There's no reason to believe he still couldn't be playing at a high level at the end of the contract.

mightybosstone
02-12-2015, 08:25 PM
I don't think you pass on Dragic just because you made a mistake on parsons... that would just be making the mistake worse...lol. Who else should HOU go after?

Dragic is a great player. If they can get him for a couple of picks and a young player it would be foolish not to.


You might be making some sense if Rockets fans viewed not giving Parsons the max as a mistake. But in truth they said it was absolutely the right thing to do, and felt a player of his caliber wasn't worth that much.

Not paying Parsons a max deal was not remotely a mistake. After Dallas made that offer, the logical move was to move on, because it was a horrible deal that would have made Parsons untradeable. I guarantee you that the Mavericks front office is rethinking that deal right about now.

The mistake was not picking up the options on Parsons because they wanted to offer Bosh the max. Because if they had picked up the option, Parsons would still be in a Rockets uniform under a totally reasonable contract. However, it was a mistake worth making. And things turned out okay in the long run, as they're every bit as good this season as they were last year.

jerellh528
02-13-2015, 12:08 AM
I don't think you pass on Dragic just because you made a mistake on parsons... that would just be making the mistake worse...lol.Who else should HOU go after?

Dragic is a great player. If they can get him for a couple of picks and a young player it would be foolish not to.

Lol according to howard beck, they'll be after Lin

"But the Rockets needed salary-cap room last July to make a frenzied, all-out bid for Chris Bosh. So they offloaded Linís hefty contract, along with a first-round pick, to the Lakers. It was purely a bookkeeping move. The Rockets remain high on Lin and are expected to be among his chief suitors this summer."

flea
02-13-2015, 12:59 AM
Not paying Parsons a max deal was not remotely a mistake. After Dallas made that offer, the logical move was to move on, because it was a horrible deal that would have made Parsons untradeable. I guarantee you that the Mavericks front office is rethinking that deal right about now.

The mistake was not picking up the options on Parsons because they wanted to offer Bosh the max. Because if they had picked up the option, Parsons would still be in a Rockets uniform under a totally reasonable contract. However, it was a mistake worth making. And things turned out okay in the long run, as they're every bit as good this season as they were last year.

I doubt that. Mavs have improved from 9th to 4th in the league between last season and this one in adjusted point differential. Their offense is just as good as it was last year in spite of Dirk's now painfully obvious decline. He hasn't improved his numbers from Houston but he didn't really need to in order to be worth his contract. He's one of only 8 SFs in the game that is a plus player on both sides of the floor in RPM, and he has multipositional versatility. In the new NBA those players make at least 14 million. Give him a higher usage, which he probably will get as Dirk continues to decline, and his offensive production will be into Hayward/George territory.

On the other hand, I'm sure the Rockets are rethinking that slab of money they laid at the feet of Dwight Howard. Dallas is getting Parsons at about half the money for his age 26-29 seasons (in other words, the best part of an average NBA player's prime). Howard is being paid twice that for his age 28-31 seasons and, for one thing, nobody knows if he can stay healthy anymore. With his reduced athleticism, he's not even been a very good center when he's played this year. He had a good season defensively last year, but offensively it was not and it looks like his days as an offensive plus are over.

Now he'll likely be a top 10 center, if he can stay on the court, for the duration of his contract because of defense. But he's not being paid Bogut money to be an anchor - he's being paid top center in the league money. And because he's being paid that, the Rockets have to dumpster dive for bench players and couldn't afford Parsons's much more reasonable contract.

PowerHouse
02-13-2015, 02:39 AM
Am I missing something? How can Houston get Dragic for just a draft pick if they're currently over the cap?

Kaner
02-13-2015, 03:29 AM
Am I missing something? How can Houston get Dragic for just a draft pick if they're currently over the cap?

What the rumor is saying is they want a 1st round pick back in any deal.

IversonIsKrazy
02-13-2015, 03:33 AM
How is it just a first rounder. Tbh I dont believe these rumors. Greg Monroe was the same rumor, these players are worth much more than a pick. Especially if the teams that are competitive can trade for them, why wouldn't they already? Just weird.

Kaner
02-13-2015, 03:42 AM
I'd like Afflalo more than Dragic for the Bulls. Although, Dragic over Rose is a huge upgrade. Rose is a mediocre PG who can't be counted on to play, at this point in his career. If they could sacrifice their future to get both, it would definitely put them on par with any team in the East.

PG: Goran Dragic
SG: Aron Afflalo
SF: Jimmy Butler
PF: Pau Gasol
C: Joakim Noah

Neither of them are a perfect fit tbh, Bulls best fit would be a sf like Wilson Chandler so that Jimmy can stay at sg. But as another offensive weapon and addition Dragic could have a huge impact.


I said, Rose is a mediocre point guard at this point. Dragic would be a tremendous upgrade. Do you disagree? If so, why?

Tonights game! and the game before. Rose has been terrible alot this season and he's had a decent amount of games where he's looked like an all-star. Theirs still hope for him improving this season and next.

mightybosstone
02-13-2015, 04:24 PM
I doubt that. Mavs have improved from 9th to 4th in the league between last season and this one in adjusted point differential. Their offense is just as good as it was last year in spite of Dirk's now painfully obvious decline. He hasn't improved his numbers from Houston but he didn't really need to in order to be worth his contract. He's one of only 8 SFs in the game that is a plus player on both sides of the floor in RPM, and he has multipositional versatility. In the new NBA those players make at least 14 million. Give him a higher usage, which he probably will get as Dirk continues to decline, and his offensive production will be into Hayward/George territory.
The Mavericks improvement is slight, and you could argue that Tyson Chandler's acquisition has been every bit as important to Dallas' improvement as Parsons' acquisition has been. Also, you're overrating Parsons on the defensive side of the ball, where he's average at best. I don't care how you slice it... Unless Parsons plays a LOT better in the next few years, there's no way he lives up to the contract he was given.


On the other hand, I'm sure the Rockets are rethinking that slab of money they laid at the feet of Dwight Howard. Dallas is getting Parsons at about half the money for his age 26-29 seasons (in other words, the best part of an average NBA player's prime). Howard is being paid twice that for his age 28-31 seasons and, for one thing, nobody knows if he can stay healthy anymore. With his reduced athleticism, he's not even been a very good center when he's played this year. He had a good season defensively last year, but offensively it was not and it looks like his days as an offensive plus are over.
:laugh: This is ridiculous. Are you REALLY trying to compare Parsons and Dwight? Parsons impact isn't in the same vicinity of Howard's, even with Howard missing significant time. Also, where do you get that Parsons is making "half" of what Dwight makes? Parsons is making $15 million-$16 million a year, while Dwight is making $21 million-$23 million a year. That's not remotely close to "half." Do math better.

As for whether or not Dwight has been a "good center" or not, I'd love to see you try to justify that kind of complete nonsense. Even with him having a down year due to injuries, he's putting up 16/11/1/1/1 with well above average advanced stats as one of the four or five best defensive centers in the league.


Now he'll likely be a top 10 center, if he can stay on the court, for the duration of his contract because of defense. But he's not being paid Bogut money to be an anchor - he's being paid top center in the league money. And because he's being paid that, the Rockets have to dumpster dive for bench players and couldn't afford Parsons's much more reasonable contract.
This is also complete nonsense. First off, EVERYBODY wanted Dwight as a free agent and EVERYBODY was willing to pay him that contract. Whereas very few teams in the league would have been willing to give Parsons the contract Dallas hand-wrapped for him. So let's not pretend like Morey made some horrible mistake that could have been foreseen.

Also, trying to compare Dwight to Bogut is laughable. How many centers in the league can provide not only top tier defense, but also give you a hyper efficient 15/10 on a nightly basis? I'll save you the trouble of looking it up.... One. Dwight Howard. Gasol and Horford don't rebound very well. Chandler and Noah don't score often enough. And Cousins and Vucevic need to make significant strides on the defensive side of the ball.

When you consider his defensive impact and the fact that he consistently provides No. 2 caliber offensive production with elite level rebounding and blocks, you could still make a case for Dwight as the best center in the league. And that's with him having a significantly down year riddled with injuries.

Finally, your point about Morey "dumpster diving" for bench pieces is also ignorant. He was able to use assets at his disposal to get Beverley, Terry, Brewer and Smith, and he's been excellent with his mid-round draft picks in recent years, netting guys like Motiejunas, Jones and Canaan. He doesn't have to "dumpster dive" in the slightest. And if he wants to go out and add a piece like Dragic, he has more than enough assets to make that happen as well.

Tony_Starks
02-13-2015, 04:28 PM
Something tells me don't sleep on Pat Riley to pull a surprise move....

mightybosstone
02-13-2015, 04:36 PM
Something tells me don't sleep on Pat Riley to pull a surprise move....

I have no doubt that Miami is interested. But what assets do they have that could make a trade like this work? Phoenix has no use for Deng, and I don't see any other pieces that would warrant trading Dragic for. Sure, they could deal their first round pick. But Houston and LA both likely have higher picks to work with.

L8kers4life
02-13-2015, 05:41 PM
The Mavericks improvement is slight, and you could argue that Tyson Chandler's acquisition has been every bit as important to Dallas' improvement as Parsons' acquisition has been. Also, you're overrating Parsons on the defensive side of the ball, where he's average at best. I don't care how you slice it... Unless Parsons plays a LOT better in the next few years, there's no way he lives up to the contract he was given.


:laugh: This is ridiculous. Are you REALLY trying to compare Parsons and Dwight? Parsons impact isn't in the same vicinity of Howard's, even with Howard missing significant time. Also, where do you get that Parsons is making "half" of what Dwight makes? Parsons is making $15 million-$16 million a year, while Dwight is making $21 million-$23 million a year. That's not remotely close to "half." Do math better.

As for whether or not Dwight has been a "good center" or not, I'd love to see you try to justify that kind of complete nonsense. Even with him having a down year due to injuries, he's putting up 16/11/1/1/1 with well above average advanced stats as one of the four or five best defensive centers in the league.


This is also complete nonsense. First off, EVERYBODY wanted Dwight as a free agent and EVERYBODY was willing to pay him that contract. Whereas very few teams in the league would have been willing to give Parsons the contract Dallas hand-wrapped for him. So let's not pretend like Morey made some horrible mistake that could have been foreseen.

Also, trying to compare Dwight to Bogut is laughable. How many centers in the league can provide not only top tier defense, but also give you a hyper efficient 15/10 on a nightly basis? I'll save you the trouble of looking it up.... One. Dwight Howard. Gasol and Horford don't rebound very well. Chandler and Noah don't score often enough. And Cousins and Vucevic need to make significant strides on the defensive side of the ball.

When you consider his defensive impact and the fact that he consistently provides No. 2 caliber offensive production with elite level rebounding and blocks, you could still make a case for Dwight as the best center in the league. And that's with him having a significantly down year riddled with injuries.

Finally, your point about Morey "dumpster diving" for bench pieces is also ignorant. He was able to use assets at his disposal to get Beverley, Terry, Brewer and Smith, and he's been excellent with his mid-round draft picks in recent years, netting guys like Motiejunas, Jones and Canaan. He doesn't have to "dumpster dive" in the slightest. And if he wants to go out and add a piece like Dragic, he has more than enough assets to make that happen as well.



Man you need to calm down, its a great post, but your being hyper sensitive to anything Rockets related/ Quit calling people Ignorant, its becoming common ground for you.

Your points about Dwight are correct, except for one fact, he is not having a down year due to Injuries, he is having a down year due to his rapid decline. The Injuries are why he is on the decline, this is 4 years in a row. where he is in some way digressing. Its only going to get worse from here.

With that being said, your GM has done an amazing job accumulating talent and he has drafted well, if you guys scoop up Dragic, that would be amazing.

Not sure why Dragic would want to play for Houston, since not only did they let him go in free agency, they also traded him in the trade for Chris Paul that the league nixed. He was also part of the package that the Rockets were using to get Pau Gasol from the Lakers. Why would he want to play their knowing how they treated him in the past. Unless they the Rox trade for him, there is no way he goes back to Houston.

Here's a stat for you, Dwight is averaging, less point, rebounds, blocks, assists than Pau Gasol, he is definitely on the decline.

But one thing is for sure, Rox have the best package for Dragic, I think a package of NO pick, Jones and Canaan gets it done.

mightybosstone
02-13-2015, 05:54 PM
Man you need to calm down, your hyper sensitive to anything Rockets related/ Quit calling people Ignorant, its becoming common ground for you.
I call it like I see it. If someone says something that seems to be devoid of knowledge or substance, then they're being ignorant.


Your points about Dwight are correct, except for one fact, he is not having a down year due to Injuries, he is having a down year due to his rapid decline. The Injuries are why he is on the decline, but this is 4 years in a row. where he is in some way digressing. Its only going to get worse from here.
...Except that's totally false. Dwight didn't digress at all from his one-year stint in LA to his first year in Houston. He was substantially better in his first season as a Rocket as he ever was in LA. And I certainly wouldn't call his decline "rapid." His season this year has been pretty similar statistically to his numbers as a Laker.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't worried about Dwight's health or that I didn't think there was a real possibility that Houston will have to deal with injuries the rest of his career. But that doesn't mean he doesn't still have some very good basketball ahead of him or that the contract he was given by the Rockets wasn't totally justified.


With that being said, your GM has done an amazing job accumulating talent and he has drafted well, if you guys scoop up Dragic, that would be amazing.

Not sure why Dragic would want to play for Houston, since not only did they let him go in free agency, they also traded him in the trade for Chris Paul that the league nixed. He was also part of the package that the Rockets were using to get Pau Gasol from the Lakers. Why would he want to play their knowing how they treated him in the past. Unless they the Rox trade for him, there is no way he goes back to Houston.

You're totally overlooking the fact that Dragic was, in fact, traded by Phoenix to Houston in the first place. He seemed totally fine going back to Phoenix, did he not? Also, he liked playing in Houston with McHale, and if Morey had given in on that fourth year of that last contract, he'd probably still be a Rocket. But it appeared the Rockets were going in full tank mode at the time, and Dragic probably recognized that.

Also, you'll notice that Trevor Ariza had no hard feelings about being dealt by Houston. Players like to play for good teams in places they feel comfortable living and playing.


Here's a stat for you, Dwight is averaging, less point, rebounds, blocks, assists than Pau Gasol, he is definitely on the decline.
What does that have to do with anything? Pau Gasol is an amazing player having an amazing (mostly healthy) season of basketball. Pau playing well does not mean Dwight isn't playing well. Those two facts are not related in any way.

flea
02-13-2015, 06:33 PM
The Mavericks improvement is slight, and you could argue that Tyson Chandler's acquisition has been every bit as important to Dallas' improvement as Parsons' acquisition has been. Also, you're overrating Parsons on the defensive side of the ball, where he's average at best.

Yawn, the metrics say he is above average defensively, and the Mavs improvement has been marked. In fact, in adjusted point differential, they have improved just as much as the Rockets have regressed (4th->9th vs. 4th-> 9th). Yes I'm aware injuries have played a part in both teams, as well as different players contributing, but the Mavs are better off this year than they were last year - where as the Rockets aren't, in spite of Harden's very good season.



:laugh: This is ridiculous. Are you REALLY trying to compare Parsons and Dwight? Parsons impact isn't in the same vicinity of Howard's, even with Howard missing significant time. Also, where do you get that Parsons is making "half" of what Dwight makes? Parsons is making $15 million-$16 million a year, while Dwight is making $21 million-$23 million a year. That's not remotely close to "half." Do math better.

I said it's about half, in reference to Morey's bitterness and calling Parsons's contract "untradeable" that you made. Dwight signed for $88 million, and Parsons for $46 million. But no, I wasn't comparing the two other than in regards to Houston's salary cap situation. Howard was definitely better last year, and if healthy he might be this year too. Instead, he's going to end up playing less than half of his team's games and now has knee and leg problems to add to his back woes.


As for whether or not Dwight has been a "good center" or not, I'd love to see you try to justify that kind of complete nonsense....
This is also complete nonsense. First off, EVERYBODY wanted Dwight as a free agent and EVERYBODY was willing to pay him that contract. Whereas very few teams in the league would have been willing to give Parsons the contract Dallas hand-wrapped for him. So let's not pretend like Morey made some horrible mistake that could have been foreseen.

Most teams couldn't pay him what he was asking for, so I'm not sure about "every" team being in on him. I think it's right to question the wisdom of giving $88 million to a declining center whose best attribute is his athleticism.


When you consider his defensive impact and the fact that he consistently provides No. 2 caliber offensive production with elite level rebounding and blocks, you could still make a case for Dwight as the best center in the league. And that's with him having a significantly down year riddled with injuries.

Looking at RPM and BPM stats, Dwight has been a negative on the offensive end for a few years now. Lobs and putbacks? He's still very good at. But his Assist% to TO% is hideous. You're almost just as likely to turn the ball over throwing into the post to him the last few years as you are to score. And passing has been a constant problem for him - he just isn't good at it. That was the major reason Van Gundy kept 4 shooters on the floor with him, not because Dwight couldn't beat a double in his athletic prime.


Finally, your point about Morey "dumpster diving" for bench pieces is also ignorant. He was able to use assets at his disposal to get Beverley, Terry, Brewer and Smith, and he's been excellent with his mid-round draft picks in recent years, netting guys like Motiejunas, Jones and Canaan. He doesn't have to "dumpster dive" in the slightest. And if he wants to go out and add a piece like Dragic, he has more than enough assets to make that happen as well.

I'd argue Motiejunas is the only reason (outside of Harden of course) that the Rockets are still in the top half of the league offensively. They have dropped off considerably from their top 5 rating last year, and it would be much worse without him. So props to Morey for that. But if you don't think Josh Smith and Jason Terry (2015 versions) rounding out your 8 man rotation isn't dumpster diving then we're not going to agree on much when it comes to your team.

L8kers4life
02-13-2015, 06:36 PM
I call it like I see it. If someone says something that seems to be devoid of knowledge or substance, then they're being ignorant.


...Except that's totally false. Dwight didn't digress at all from his one-year stint in LA to his first year in Houston. He was substantially better in his first season as a Rocket as he ever was in LA. And I certainly wouldn't call his decline "rapid." His season this year has been pretty similar statistically to his numbers as a Laker.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't worried about Dwight's health or that I didn't think there was a real possibility that Houston will have to deal with injuries the rest of his career. But that doesn't mean he doesn't still have some very good basketball ahead of him or that the contract he was given by the Rockets wasn't totally justified.



You're totally overlooking the fact that Dragic was, in fact, traded by Phoenix to Houston in the first place. He seemed totally fine going back to Phoenix, did he not? Also, he liked playing in Houston with McHale, and if Morey had given in on that fourth year of that last contract, he'd probably still be a Rocket. But it appeared the Rockets were going in full tank mode at the time, and Dragic probably recognized that.

Also, you'll notice that Trevor Ariza had no hard feelings about being dealt by Houston. Players like to play for good teams in places they feel comfortable living and playing.


What does that have to do with anything? Pau Gasol is an amazing player having an amazing (mostly healthy) season of basketball. Pau playing well does not mean Dwight isn't playing well. Those two facts are not related in any way.

When I say decline, I'm referring to decline from his best days in Orlando. I mentioned Pau, because you mentioned Gasol in a earlier post, so was not sure if you were referring to Pau or Marc. But overall Pau at 9 or 10 million is much better than paying 23 for Dwight.

mightybosstone
02-13-2015, 08:19 PM
Yawn, the metrics say he is above average defensively, and the Mavs improvement has been marked. In fact, in adjusted point differential, they have improved just as much as the Rockets have regressed (4th->9th vs. 4th-> 9th). Yes I'm aware injuries have played a part in both teams, as well as different players contributing, but the Mavs are better off this year than they were last year - where as the Rockets aren't, in spite of Harden's very good season.
Houston's absolutely better than they were last season. You said it yourself: injuries. As for Parsons, what defensive stats are you using, by chance? Because I'm guessing a lot of the stats you're using give Parsons the benefit of playing with Dallas' best defensive big man in Chandler.


I said it's about half, in reference to Morey's bitterness and calling Parsons's contract "untradeable" that you made. Dwight signed for $88 million, and Parsons for $46 million.
But you didn't take the years of the deals into account. And I'd much, much rather give Howard four years for $88 million than give Parsons 3 years for $46 million.


Most teams couldn't pay him what he was asking for, so I'm not sure about "every" team being in on him. I think it's right to question the wisdom of giving $88 million to a declining center whose best attribute is his athleticism.
His best attribute has never been his athleticism. It's his defense and always has been his defense. Even if he loses his athleticism, Howard will always be a solid defensive player. Also, you can go ahead and question the wisdom of the deal, but that doesn't make you right. It's easy to judge a deal in hindsight, but I guarantee you didn't question the deal at the time. Great players make big money, and Howard was still a player worthy of a max contract.

It's also easy to judge a player while he's injured. Let's see you judge him if he comes back healthy for the playoffs and helps Houston make a deep playoff run. Or if he comes back healthy next year and plays the majority of the season at a level comparable to last year.


Looking at RPM and BPM stats, Dwight has been a negative on the offensive end for a few years now. Lobs and putbacks? He's still very good at. But his Assist% to TO% is hideous.
I'm not arguing this. I don't know why you feel the need to. :shrug:


You're almost just as likely to turn the ball over throwing into the post to him the last few years as you are to score.
I'm willing to bet this is totally incorrect.


And passing has been a constant problem for him - he just isn't good at it. That was the major reason Van Gundy kept 4 shooters on the floor with him, not because Dwight couldn't beat a double in his athletic prime.
Again... Why is this relevant? As you said, he had the same problem in Orlando, when the guy was a perennial top 5 player in the league. That has nothing to do, whatsoever, with what we're discussing.


I'd argue Motiejunas is the only reason (outside of Harden of course) that the Rockets are still in the top half of the league offensively. They have dropped off considerably from their top 5 rating last year, and it would be much worse without him. So props to Morey for that.
I think calling him the "only reason" is a bit of an overstatement, but I agree that Motiejunas has played a huge role for the Rockets this year and has been a big part of how Houston has stayed afloat despite Dwight and Jones missing so much time.


But if you don't think Josh Smith and Jason Terry (2015 versions) rounding out your 8 man rotation isn't dumpster diving then we're not going to agree on much when it comes to your team.
Terry's played pretty well in a Rockets uniform. His TS% (57.4%) and WS/48 (.105) are both above league average, and having his shooting off the bench has been invaluable. Smith struggled initially, but have you seen him play with Houston lately? He's probably been the Rockets second best player since Dwight went down again. In his last five games, he's puting up 16/9/5/1/1 on shockingly good shooting percentages, including 48% beyond the arc.

Also, you conveniently avoided Corey Brewer's name from the conversation. Brewer has been amazing since coming to Houston and has easily become a fan favorite and one of the most reliable players on the team.

mightybosstone
02-13-2015, 08:25 PM
When I say decline, I'm referring to decline from his best days in Orlando.
Nobody is saying he is the same guy from his Orlando days. That's no reason to suggest he still isn't worth the contract he signed. Even a 70-80% version of Orlando Dwight is easily worth a max contract.


I mentioned Pau, because you mentioned Gasol in a earlier post, so was not sure if you were referring to Pau or Marc. But overall Pau at 9 or 10 million is much better than paying 23 for Dwight.
I was talking about Marc. Also, value is relative and hindsight is 20/20. If Gasol had stayed on the Lakers making that much money, I'd much, much rather have Dwight making $22 million a year. But leaving LA has clearly revitalized Gasol's career. Also, as good as Gasol has been offensively, he's still not remotely the player that Dwight is on the other side of the ball. And Gasol's age means he's far more likely to retire before Dwight is.

Also, as I said previously, it's really, really easy to criticize a player when he's injured and praise a player when he's playing well. But let's see how the last two years of Dwight's contract and the last two year's of Gasol's contract play out. My guess is there will be a lot of opportunities for both sides of this argument to point fingers.

DillyDill
02-13-2015, 08:27 PM
Rocks should be offering the house can form a potential Big 3

kdspurman
02-17-2015, 01:14 PM
567732883209854976
567733528771956736

Htownballa1622
02-17-2015, 01:25 PM
Suns want a player with all star potential and a first rounder for a guy that's never been an all star and plays at the deepest position in the league?

Enjoy jones, a first, and capella. :D

Posturing...that asking price will come down.

mightybosstone
02-17-2015, 01:37 PM
I still think Houston has as good a chance as anyone to get Dragic in a trade, but if I had to put my money on it at this point, I think it's going to be a very quiet trade deadline.

Htownballa1622
02-17-2015, 01:40 PM
I just read that suns would love to trade dragic and parts for boogie.

Kings can't be THAT dumb.

Dragic will be in Dallas Friday for us :hope:

MILLERHIGHLIFE
02-17-2015, 03:50 PM
I just read that suns would love to trade dragic and parts for boogie.

Kings can't be THAT dumb.

Dragic will be in Dallas Friday for us :hope: Dragic and parts? What are the spare parts? Morris twins?

Htownballa1622
02-17-2015, 03:57 PM
Dragic and parts? What are the spare parts? Morris twins?

Didn't get details. I just know they want boogie and it's not happening.

LA_Raiders
02-17-2015, 11:45 PM
To the Lakers for nash and 1st pick. Lol

jerellh528
02-17-2015, 11:52 PM
To the Lakers for nash and 1st pick. Lol

God please no