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View Full Version : Who is your MVP choice right now?



Goose17
02-11-2015, 04:07 PM
A lot could change between now and seasons end, but if you had to pick one right now, who would it be?

jaydubb
02-11-2015, 04:08 PM
Steph Curry

Htownballa1622
02-11-2015, 04:12 PM
James Harden.

Goose17
02-11-2015, 04:13 PM
JayDubb forgot to vote on the poll. Rookie mistake.

Rivera
02-11-2015, 04:15 PM
Steph curry followed by harden. To me it's a two horse race

ClutchTime
02-11-2015, 05:25 PM
It depends who you ask because basically it's between 2 players. You ask a Warriors fan, they say Curry, you ask a Rocket fan, they say Harden. With me being a Rocket fan, FEAR THE BEARD.

Longhornfan1234
02-11-2015, 05:31 PM
James Harden. He has been carrying a heavier load than the other guys. He's putting up 27/6/5 on 61 TS%. His second banana has been hurt all season and harden is still able to keep his team a top 3 seed.

Not a Rockets fan...btw. I'm a LeBron/KD/AD fan.

Redrum187
02-11-2015, 05:34 PM
James Harden.

Do you pick James Harden because he has less help than Curry or because you think Harden has outplayed Curry this season in general?

tredigs
02-11-2015, 05:35 PM
KD? He's played 25 games. AD has a top 5 PER in NBA history, he should probably get the mention.

Basketball Reference's predictor list is an interesting one to check out:

1: Curry - 40% chance
2. Harden - 35% chance
Rest is split up with 5% or less

Redrum187
02-11-2015, 05:36 PM
It depends who you ask because basically it's between 2 players. You ask a Warriors fan, they say Curry, you ask a Rocket fan, they say Harden. With me being a Rocket fan, FEAR THE BEARD.

This is why I don't pledge allegiance to any team. It typically makes you become incapable of being objective.

I can't think of a single legitimate argument for Harden over Curry, and I think Harden is the best SG in the league.

Goose17
02-11-2015, 05:37 PM
It depends who you ask because basically it's between 2 players. You ask a Warriors fan, they say Curry, you ask a Rocket fan, they say Harden. With me being a Rocket fan, FEAR THE BEARD.

Yeah it's a shame there's only two teams in the league.

Oh wait...

ClutchTime
02-11-2015, 05:38 PM
This is why I don't pledge allegiance to any team. It typically makes you become incapable of being objective.

I can't think of a single legitimate argument for Harden over Curry, and I think Harden is the best SG in the league.

Curry has a teammate who can score 37 points in 1 quarter. With Howard and T Jones hurt the majority of the season, harden has no choice but to take over. Although I like what I'm seeing from Josh Smith since he got here. Not to mention Harden decides to play defense this year which is helping his case.

ClutchTime
02-11-2015, 05:40 PM
Yeah it's a shame there's only two teams in the league.

Oh wait...

Who else should be mentioned in the MVP talk besides Curry and Harden. Lebron... maybe and who else? The top 2 players happen to be the 1 and 3 seed in the West.

Htownballa1622
02-11-2015, 05:40 PM
Do you pick James Harden because he has less help than Curry or because you think Harden has outplayed Curry this season in general?

I think because he's put up the numbers worthy while being most important to his team.

Curry is having an mvp year but I feel the best record they have is due in part to many factors. Their defense is superb and I think that has even more to do with guys like Draymond or bogut when healthy.

Redrum187
02-11-2015, 05:40 PM
To say, "Harden has been carrying a heavier load"... we have to assume that Curry wouldn't have even more impressive stats than he currently does if he had to "carry a heavier load", had Klay or Green been injured. Who is to say Curry wouldn't have even better stats in the scenario? We can speculate, but I don't want the MVP award to come down to assumptions and speculations.

Statistically, Curry is superior to Harden. Team record wise, Curry's team has the better record. Head-to-head match ups, Curry has decimated Harden and the Rockets.

Goose17
02-11-2015, 05:42 PM
Who else should be mentioned in the MVP talk besides Curry and Harden. Lebron... maybe and who else? The top 2 players happen to be the 1 and 3 seed in the West.

My point was you said "it depends who you ask, dubs fans vote curry, Houston vote klay" Theres more than two teams in the league though. Don't you think other fans from other teams have an opinion on those two?

Goose17
02-11-2015, 05:43 PM
A third seed hasn't had an mvp for a while.

A 4th seed has never had one as far as I'm aware.

Harden could make history.

Redrum187
02-11-2015, 05:44 PM
I think because he's put up the numbers worthy while being most important to his team.

Curry is having an mvp year but I feel the best record they have is due in part to many factors. Their defense is superb and I think that has even more to do with guys like Draymond or bogut when healthy.

So MVP candidates should be penalized for having great teammates who play fantastic defense?

I could argue that Curry has been such a phenomenal PG this season, he brings out the best in his players both offensively and defensively. Offensively, he is an assist machine... defensively, he has made huge improvements himself. When a team's best player/leader takes huge strides, the rest of the squad will surely follow. Shouldn't this be a plus rather than a negative when discussing MVP?

ClutchTime
02-11-2015, 05:47 PM
My point was you said "it depends who you ask, dubs fans vote curry, Houston vote klay" Theres more than two teams in the league though. Don't you think other fans from other teams have an opinion on those two?

Of course.... every fan base has an opinion on who should win the award. But there comes a point where you have to be realistic and not just throw out a "player" just because "he's" on your team and you watched all of "his" 77-80 games that were played.

Htownballa1622
02-11-2015, 05:49 PM
So MVP candidates should be penalized for having great teammates who play fantastic defense?

I could argue that Curry has been such a phenomenal PG this season, he brings out the best in his players both offensively and defensively. Offensively, he is an assist machine... defensively, he has made huge improvements himself. When a team's best player/leader takes huge strides, the rest of the squad will surely follow. Shouldn't this be a plus rather than a negative when discussing MVP?

Yeah but you're in a way penalizing Harden for not having a better team. Don't ya think?

Individually it's close but I look at it this way plus the whole VALUE to their teams aspect.

Redrum187
02-11-2015, 05:49 PM
Curry has a teammate who can score 37 points in 1 quarter. With Howard and T Jones hurt the majority of the season, harden has no choice but to take over. Although I like what I'm seeing from Josh Smith since he got here. Not to mention Harden decides to play defense this year which is helping his case.

I agree. Harden has been absolutely phenomenal this year. I'm not taking that away from him or the Rockets.

Having said that, Curry has played even better than Harden. You're also not understanding that you have to assume that Curry wouldn't be able to put up more numbers if Klay or Green missed time due to injury. Why speculate? It is impossible and unfair to speculate. As a result, lets not use the "carrying a heavier load card" when deciding who is more deserving of MVP.

If we used the "carrying a heavier load card", it would be seen as a BLESSING when a teammate gets injured... A blessing because now they apparently have more justification for being more deserving of an MVP because I'm forced to score more points... That is ludicrous.

Redrum187
02-11-2015, 05:51 PM
Yeah but you're in a way penalizing Harden for not having a better team. Don't ya think?

Individually it's close but I look at it this way plus the whole VALUE to their teams aspect.

Not penalizing Harden at all. It's no one's fault his teammates got injured. Harden has definitely filled the gap with his amazing talent... but I'm not going to say, "Well, because Harden had to fill the gap, he's automatically more deserving than Curry of MVP." That is illogical.

But since you agree than Curry gets penalized for having a healthy team that he makes better, do you agree that is quite unfair to him and to GSW fans?

Goose17
02-11-2015, 05:53 PM
But there comes a point where you have to be realistic and not just throw out a "player" just because "he's" on your team and you watched all of "his" 77-80 games that were played.

Right. But that's got nothing to do with what you said. **** Houston fans. **** Warriors fans. This thread is for everyone to vote on anyone they believe deserves the MVP award, you said "It depends who you ask, if you ask Dubs blah blah blah, if you ask Houston blah blah blah" as if they are the only two fan bases being asked. It made no sense.



It depends who you ask because basically it's between 2 players. You ask a Warriors fan, they say Curry, you ask a Rocket fan, they say Harden.

What about the other TWENTY EIGHT FAN BASES. Why are you acting like there's only two fan bases? "It depends who you ask" ...I know it does, that's why I am asking EVERYONE.


How are you failing to comprehend this? :sigh:

Htownballa1622
02-11-2015, 05:54 PM
Not penalizing Harden at all. It's no one's fault his teammates got injured. Harden has definitely filled the gap with his amazing talent... but I'm not going to say, "Well, because Harden had to fill the gap, he's automatically more deserving than Curry of MVP." That is illogical.

I get it. I just feel Harden has been the "most valuable" especially to their respective teams.

ClutchTime
02-11-2015, 06:00 PM
Right. But that's got nothing to do with what you said. **** Houston fans. **** Warriors fans. This thread is for everyone to vote on anyone they believe deserves the MVP award, you said "It depends who you ask, if you ask Dubs blah blah blah, if you ask Houston blah blah blah" as if they are the only two fan bases being asked. It made no sense.




What about the other TWENTY EIGHT FAN BASES. Why are you acting like there's only two fan bases? "It depends who you ask" ...I know it does, that's why I am asking EVERYONE.


How are you failing to comprehend this? :sigh:

Every fan base has a vote and an opinion on who will win. I said 2 fan bases because it's between 2 players on 2 teams. Not disagreeing with you. All 30 teams should get a vote but if it's between 2 obvious players on 2
different teams.

My point is, if you ask all 30 fan bases, there will be other players mentioned besides Curry and Harden which is a joke. That is what I'm getting at. You should of asked this question directly towards Warrior and Rocket fans since these 2 players are the most obvious and talked about candidates.

Minimal
02-11-2015, 06:00 PM
Curry right now

Redrum187
02-11-2015, 06:01 PM
I get it. I just feel Harden has been the "most valuable" especially to their respective teams.

Do you think you're being 100% objective when you say/feel that? If you were a GSW fan, would you still feel Harden is the "most valuable" to their respective teams?

Also, if we ignore team record and focus on "who is the most valuable" to their team, for me it wouldn't be Curry OR Harden. It would be LeBron James or Anthony Davis. Subtract them from their squad, and see if they are in the playoff race. However, this requires yet more speculation... something I don't think we should do when discussing MVP.

Goose17
02-11-2015, 06:01 PM
Every fan base has a vote and an opinion on who will win. I said 2 fan bases because it's between 2 players on 2 teams. Not disagreeing with you. All 30 teams should get a vote but if it's between 2 obvious players on 2 different teams.

In your mind maybe, but even if that's true, the most unbiased opinions you can get between those two players is from fans of OTHER teams.

ClutchTime
02-11-2015, 06:03 PM
In your mind maybe, but even if that's true, the most unbiased opinions you can get between those two players is from fans of OTHER teams.

My point is, if you ask all 30 fan bases, there will be other players mentioned besides Curry and Harden which is a joke. That is what I'm getting at. You should of asked this question directly towards Warrior and Rocket fans since these 2 players are the most obvious and talked about candidates. I completely understand that if you ask other fan bases besides these 2 you will get the most unbiased opinions which is right, but you hope fans know what they are talking about and not just throwing out names for the heck of it.

Goose17
02-11-2015, 06:08 PM
My point is, if you ask all 30 fan bases, there will be other players mentioned besides Curry and Harden which is a joke. That is what I'm getting at. You should of asked this question directly towards Warrior and Rocket fans since these 2 players are the most obvious and talked about candidates. I completely understand that if you ask other fan bases besides these 2 you will get the most unbiased opinions which is right, but you hope fans know what they are talking about and not just throwing out names for the heck of it.

But as you said yourself when you ask those two teams they just vote for their own guy (you and every Houston fan here so far has voted for Harden for example). It would be a boring discussion that would lead to nothing but bickering IMO. Especially with there being so many trolls on both sides.

Personally if Memphis can finish third I think Gasol should be in the conversation. I also feel like Lebron might be in for a shout depending on how Cleveland do after the ASG.


Interestingly I just checked the NBA MVP Ladder and they have it as;

1. Curry
2. Lebron
3. Harden
4. Teague
5. Gasol
6. Klay
7. Lillard
8. Wall
9. Westbrook
10. Davis



That doesn't look right to me at all. Aside from Curry being #1 ;)

Redrum187
02-11-2015, 06:08 PM
I think LeBron James is definitely closing the gap in this 2-way race to MVP.

If he continues to produce as he's been, I think it is legitimately a 3-way race.

Htownballa1622
02-11-2015, 06:11 PM
Do you think you're being 100% objective when you say/feel that? If you were a GSW fan, would you still feel Harden is the "most valuable" to their respective teams?

Also, if we ignore team record and focus on "who is the most valuable" to their team, for me it wouldn't be Curry OR Harden. It would be LeBron James or Anthony Davis. Subtract them from their squad, and see if they are in the playoff race. However, this requires yet more speculation... something I don't think we should do when discussing MVP.

I do actually. I feel I'm being 100% objective. Do you feel my comments are THAT off? Have you looked at the numbers? Do you watch both teams? I do. I've seen every Rockets game and probably more warriors games than anyone besides a normal dubs fan. (I've long before said I'm a huge curry fan).

I disagree with that. Lebrons team has 2 players better than the rockets 3rd best player along with capable others. I think Davis' team is the classic team that aquire too much talent to tank but not enough to succeed (see 9th seed).

Take off harden and Howard. The rockets' five would look like this.

Beverly
Brewer or terry
Ariza
dmo or Jones
Dorsey.

Difference is... Dwight really has been out a while so Is Harden's teammates.

Goose17
02-11-2015, 06:14 PM
I do actually. I feel I'm being 100% objective. Do you feel my comments are THAT off? Have you looked at the numbers? Do you watch both teams? I do. I've seen every Rockets game and probably more warriors games than anyone besides a normal dubs fan. (I've long before said I'm a huge curry fan).

I disagree with that. Lebrons team has 2 players better than the rockets 3rd best player along with capable others. I think Davis' team is the classic team that aquire too much talent to tank but not enough to succeed (see 9th seed).

Take off harden and Howard. The rockets' five would look like this.

Beverly
Brewer or terry
Ariza
dmo or Jones
Dorsey.

Difference is... Dwight really has been out a while so Is Harden's teammates.


How many MVPs were penalized for having a good GM that can build around them? Lebron? Durant? Dirk? Nash? Duncan? Jordan?

The last guy I can think of that won it with a crappy team was Iverson, but even then he had SOME talent... and Philly were the first seed.

Htownballa1622
02-11-2015, 06:20 PM
How many MVPs were penalized for having a good GM that can build around them? Lebron? Durant? Dirk? Nash? Duncan? Jordan?

The last guy I can think of that won it with a crappy team was Iverson, but even then he had SOME talent... and Philly were the first seed.

Oh I agree. I was one that disagreed with rose's mvp. That was lebron or Howards.

Only thing is, I'm not discrediting curry for playing with a great team. More like, elevating Harden for playing without a great team.

Ppl said we'd miss playoffs (check sig)

There was a bunch of idiotic posts yet here we are. Hardens got his team 3rd in the west. Leading the league in scoring. Back2back 40 point games nearing triple doubles. Finishing off teams in the 4th.

James harden has been the mvp imo.

Redrum187
02-11-2015, 06:22 PM
I do actually. I feel I'm being 100% objective. Do you feel my comments are THAT off? Have you looked at the numbers? Do you watch both teams? I do. I've seen every Rockets game and probably more warriors games than anyone besides a normal dubs fan. (I've long before said I'm a huge curry fan).

I disagree with that. Lebrons team has 2 players better than the rockets 3rd best player along with capable others. I think Davis' team is the classic team that aquire too much talent to tank but not enough to succeed (see 9th seed).

Take off harden and Howard. The rockets' five would look like this.

Beverly
Brewer or terry
Ariza
dmo or Jones
Dorsey.

Difference is... Dwight really has been out a while so Is Harden's teammates.

I consider a Harden pick from you (a Houston fan) automatically a homer pick when I've given specific reasons you have yet to address. You addressed the assumption/speculation part and agreed with me, but what about team record, head-to-head match ups, individual stats? Curry wins all of those.

I need something more substantial than "Harden carries a heavier load" followed by speculation that Curry couldn't do it as a reason for Harden being more deserving.

The only fair and objective thing to do is to not penalize Harden for Howard going out, and not penalize Curry for making his team better offensively and defensively. When one does that, it is clear as day that Curry leads Harden. Harden is clearly 2nd place though. The gap from Curry to Harden is closer than Harden to the 3rd place MVP candidate.

Vee-Rex
02-11-2015, 06:23 PM
In the traditional mvp sense, I pick Curry.

In terms of who is actually most valuable to their team... as in, which team would go from a deep playoff-run potential to a lottery team, I think it would go to Durant, LBJ, or Harden.

Htownballa1622
02-11-2015, 06:39 PM
I consider a Harden pick from you (a Houston fan) automatically a homer pick when I've given specific reasons you have yet to address. You addressed the assumption/speculation part and agreed with me, but what about team record, head-to-head match ups, individual stats? Curry wins all of those.

I need something more substantial than "Harden carries a heavier load" followed by speculation that Curry couldn't do it as a reason for Harden being more deserving.

The only fair and objective thing to do is to not penalize Harden for Howard going out, and not penalize Curry for making his team better offensively and defensively. When one does that, it is clear as day that Curry leads Harden. Harden is clearly 2nd place though. The gap from Curry to Harden is closer than Harden to the 3rd place MVP candidate.

Well you can have that opinion.

I never speculated curry couldn't handle a bigger load. Don't put words in my mouth.

Circumstances do happen though. Howard is out. It's not that I'm penalizing him but that's part of the story for a candidate for mvp.

It's not that it's hurting curry but given the hand that is dealt I do give harden the edge.

And you needing more than what I gave u is tough. Obviously it's a moot point. It's not for me to try and convince u (your mind has already been set).

It's for the rest of the season to play out and then we shall see.

Thread asked for my opinion. I gave it.

Tony_Starks
02-11-2015, 06:46 PM
Curry

Redrum187
02-11-2015, 06:47 PM
Well you can have that opinion.

I never speculated curry couldn't handle a bigger load. Don't put words in my mouth.

Circumstances do happen though. Howard is out. It's not that I'm penalizing him but that's part of the story for a candidate for mvp.

It's not that it's hurting curry but given the hand that is dealt I do give harden the edge.

And you needing more than what I gave u is tough. Obviously it's a moot point. It's not for me to try and convince u (your mind has already been set).

It's for the rest of the season to play out and then we shall see.

Thread asked for my opinion. I gave it.

You never directly said that, but you're indirectly stating it when you say, "Harden has carried a heavier load." If you're not indirectly stating Curry couldn't do the same, then what relevance does Harden carrying the heavier load have? Essentially, it's a BLESSING when Howard (or any other teammate) gets hurt... no?

My mind isn't made up at all... I could be convinced if given legitimate evidence/justification. The argument of using "injury" as a form of blessing when a player fills the gap isn't legitimate to me whatsoever. I'm objective enough to know I could be wrong and open-minded enough to see from different points-of-view and admit when there is merit in it. I've yet to be presented with anything though.

archdevil84
02-11-2015, 06:48 PM
harden is thrash

tredigs
02-11-2015, 07:03 PM
Three players are having what I would consider to be legit MVP seasons: Curry, Harden and Anthony Davis.

The crack in Harden's case is that the Rockets are not a top 2 seed, and aren't even 1st in their own division. You won't find an MVP in the last 30 years who did not at least win their division.

The crack in Curry's case is that when he's on the court, they have been blowing out a good portion of opponents and he's sat a disproportionate amount of 4th quarters on account of that. Some argue that as a positive and it is, but the bottom line is that box-score stats are still king and it hampers him there. 26/5/8.5 pops more than 23.6/4.7/7.9. He was at 50/40/90 for a bit, so if he can get back up there it will help solidify his case. Voters like those clean #'s.

The crack in AD's is a compound fracture. Won't win MVP as an 8 seed or lottery team. Though if he pulls off an extraordinary final month and they beat out OKC + PHX for that slot, he'll get his share of #1 votes.

FlashBolt
02-11-2015, 07:07 PM
What Harden has done this season has been far greater than Curry. Who does Houston even have besides Harden compared to GSW? Where the hell has Dwight been? There are 7-2 without him. Why? Cause James fricking Harden.

Redrum187
02-11-2015, 07:18 PM
What Harden has done this season has been far greater than Curry. Who does Houston even have besides Harden compared to GSW? Where the hell has Dwight been? There are 7-2 without him. Why? Cause James fricking Harden.

James Harden has definitely done great so far in Dwight's absence. However, 7-2 is such a small sample size. Once again, why penalize Curry for making his teammates better on both ends of the floor? Do we ignore Bogut being injured and missing time? Do we also penalize Curry and the GSW for being healthy (except David Lee and Andrew Bogut)?

Why has the best team in the western conference been so elite all season long? Stephen fricking Curry. Why has GSW destroyed the Rockets (even when Dwight did play)? Stephen fricking Curry. Who has better individual stats for the season AND head-to-head (check the stats for both) between Curry and harden? Stephen fricking Curry. Why were the GSW able to go 20-3 without David Lee? Stephen fricking Curry. Why were the GSW able to go 10-5 (.67 win percentage) without Andrew Bogut? Stephen fricking Curry.

Now... Harden winning without Howard is not 100% Harden, but he is the primary factor... Just as Curry is the primary factor for being so elite even without their starting defensive anchor (Andrew Bogut) and last seasons starting PF, David Lee.

tredigs
02-11-2015, 07:22 PM
What Harden has done this season has been far greater than Curry. Who does Houston even have besides Harden compared to GSW? Where the hell has Dwight been? There are 7-2 without him. Why? Cause James fricking Harden.

He has had less help for sure, but his team is also quite a bit behind Golden State. The lack of help shows. 7 in the loss column that will probably be >10 by seasons end. That's a pretty big difference, especially when it's coupled with the fact that the Warriors beat the Rockets by double digits every time they matched up. It's a plus for Harden that those occurred earlier in the season rather than late (where it's fresh in voters minds), but it matters.

Also have to note how the Warriors offense absolutely falls off a cliff when Curry is not in. From a 116 Orating to 100. GS is on pace for 67 wins and one of the more dominant regular seasons in NBA history, but without Curry they're a team that projects as maybe a 7 or 8 seed.

If Harden can get them to the point where they're winning their division, I think his case grows much stronger.

FlashBolt
02-11-2015, 07:45 PM
James Harden has definitely done great so far in Dwight's absence. However, 7-2 is such a small sample size. Once again, why penalize Curry for making his teammates better on both ends of the floor? Do we ignore Bogut being injured and missing time? Do we also penalize Curry and the GSW for being healthy (except David Lee and Andrew Bogut)?

Why has the best team in the western conference been so elite all season long? Stephen fricking Curry. Why has GSW destroyed the Rockets (even when Dwight did play)? Stephen fricking Curry. Who has better individual stats for the season AND head-to-head (check the stats for both) between Curry and harden? Stephen fricking Curry. Why were the GSW able to go 20-3 without David Lee? Stephen fricking Curry. Why were the GSW able to go 10-5 (.67 win percentage) without Andrew Bogut? Stephen fricking Curry.

Now... Harden winning without Howard is not 100% Harden, but he is the primary factor... Just as Curry is the primary factor for being so elite even without their starting defensive anchor (Andrew Bogut) and last seasons starting PF, David Lee.

If you think those are valid points, you're completely mistaken. Who cares if Steph Curry has been better head-to-head vs Harden? His team is better. That's undeniable. No one gave Rockets a chance this season while most expected GSW to elevate and take it to the next level. David Lee? Really? Because Draymond Green isn't a better option than him at this point? David Lee is clearly not needed. But the fact that David Lee, Iggy, and Bogut aren't even playing but are being replaced by other players? That just shows you the depth of this team. And don't give me this "Curry elevates their game" nonsense. His team is just STACKED. They are 10-5 without Bogut as you say. Doesn't that show that they have other players who make an impact? So no, it's not Steph Fricking Curry who is ultimately responsible for them having a great season. It's the fact that Steph is in a team that is just great. James Harden is carrying a team that pales in comparison to other Western Conference contenders. He's carrying them statistically at every category and he's been on fire. No one has to do more than James in the Western Conference right now. That's a fact.

Goose17
02-11-2015, 07:49 PM
No one has to do more than James in the Western Conference right now. That's a fact.

Except it's not a fact. And I think it's obvious Davis does more for his team, he does everything for them. Harden just does it on one end. Davis does it all.

FlashBolt
02-11-2015, 07:50 PM
He has had less help for sure, but his team is also quite a bit behind Golden State. The lack of help shows. 7 in the loss column that will probably be >10 by seasons end. That's a pretty big difference, especially when it's coupled with the fact that the Warriors beat the Rockets by double digits every time they matched up. It's a plus for Harden that those occurred earlier in the season rather than late (where it's fresh in voters minds), but it matters.

Also have to note how the Warriors offense absolutely falls off a cliff when Curry is not in. From a 116 Orating to 100. GS is on pace for 67 wins and one of the more dominant regular seasons in NBA history, but without Curry they're a team that projects as maybe a 7 or 8 seed.

If Harden can get them to the point where they're winning their division, I think his case grows much stronger.

And where would the Rockets ORTG be without Harden? Where would Houston run to when Harden is injured? I get that Curry has been amazing but I'm simply stating that Harden has been better and has had to lead a team that isn't as good as the Warriors are. That's not a slight against GSW at all. As for Houston being lower in the wins column, well, that's true but I have a hard time seeing how any of that is James Harden's fault. He's just in a tough conference and they lost Parsons/got Ariza/have an injured Howard (who the past 9 games, Harden has had to carry). They could have easily been in doubt to make the playoffs.

Redrum187
02-11-2015, 07:50 PM
If you think those are valid points, you're completely mistaken. Who cares if Steph Curry has been better head-to-head vs Harden? His team is better. That's undeniable. No one gave Rockets a chance this season while most expected GSW to elevate and take it to the next level. David Lee? Really? Because Draymond Green isn't a better option than him at this point? David Lee is clearly not needed. But the fact that David Lee, Iggy, and Bogut aren't even playing but are being replaced by other players? That just shows you the depth of this team. And don't give me this "Curry elevates their game" nonsense. His team is just STACKED. They are 10-5 without Bogut as you say. Doesn't that show that they have other players who make an impact? So no, it's not Steph Fricking Curry who is ultimately responsible for them having a great season. It's the fact that Steph is in a team that is just great. James Harden is carrying a team that pales in comparison to other Western Conference contenders. He's carrying them statistically at every category and he's been on fire. No one has to do more than James in the Western Conference right now. That's a fact.

I was being facetious... It's funny you say those aren't good reasons when I was just mimicking you...

FlashBolt
02-11-2015, 07:51 PM
Except it's not a fact. And I think it's obvious Davis does more for his team, he does everything for them. Harden jut scores. Davis does it all.

Harden just scores? LMAO. Have you seen the numbers he has been putting up? And I'm talking about legitimate contenders. I think we can all agree that Davis isn't an MVP contender. He's a great player who's team record already disqualifies him from the race.

Tony_Starks
02-11-2015, 07:54 PM
What Harden has done this season has been far greater than Curry. Who does Houston even have besides Harden compared to GSW? Where the hell has Dwight been? There are 7-2 without him. Why? Cause James fricking Harden.

You make it sound like aside from Harden the Rockets are trash. D Mo has game, he has Beverly / Ariza/ Brewer to compensate for his defensive lapses and J Smooth and the Jet can do their thing on any given night. I don't think the Rockets are a contender by any stretch but their team is solid, its far from a one man show.....

FlashBolt
02-11-2015, 07:56 PM
I was being facetious... It's funny you say those aren't good reasons when I was just mimicking you...

Except my points are valid while yours seem to be too generalized. Rockets are in the third seed with their second player being gone for 9 games (good enough to drop them to the 7th seed), while they just lost their 3rd best player in Parsons in return for Ariza -- who has been horrific offensively. In short, Harden has no where to turn to when he has a bad game. When Harden has a bad game, they most likely lose. Heck, even when he has great games, they still lose. GSW has won games when Curry played horrible. Against Kings, they win by 25 because Klay saves the day. Against Phoenix, they win with Curry playing bad offense. There are a bunch of games where he shoots 35% and they still blow teams out. You can't possibly tell me Curry doesn't have a squad.

FlashBolt
02-11-2015, 08:01 PM
You make it sound like aside from Harden the Rockets are trash. D Mo has game, he has Beverly / Ariza/ Brewer to compensate for his defensive lapses and J Smooth and the Jet can do their thing on any given night. I don't think the Rockets are a contender by any stretch but their team is solid, its far from a one man show.....

They are trash compared to the other Western conference competing teams. I'm not saying they suck in general but they certainly aren't great by any means. GSW has a great team. Mavericks have Rondo, Parsons, Nowitzki, Chandler, and Ellis. Portland has Matthews, Lillard, Batum, Aldridge, and Lopez. Memphis is just stacked top to bottom as well. Clippers aren't stacked but that team is certainly better than Houston when you consider Paul=Harden. Who does Rockets have RIGHT NOW who can compete against those guys besides Harden? JET? Josh Smith -- the guy who since leaving Detroit, has made Detroit a relevant team? Ariza only plays good defense and has sucked offensively. Motiejunas is their only consistent player currently. And yet, Harden is 7-2 with that squad without Dwight -- who isn't even an All-Star but is undoubtedly their second best player.

Redrum187
02-11-2015, 08:04 PM
Except my points are valid while yours seem to be too generalized. Rockets are in the third seed with their second player being gone for 9 games (good enough to drop them to the 7th seed), while they just lost their 3rd best player in Parsons in return for Ariza -- who has been horrific offensively. In short, Harden has no where to turn to when he has a bad game. When Harden has a bad game, they most likely lose. Heck, even when he has great games, they still lose. GSW has won games when Curry played horrible. Against Kings, they win by 25 because Klay saves the day. Against Phoenix, they win with Curry playing bad offense. There are a bunch of games where he shoots 35% and they still blow teams out. You can't possibly tell me Curry doesn't have a squad.

Generalized? I used the exact same thing you did... I'm confused...

tredigs
02-11-2015, 08:39 PM
And where would the Rockets ORTG be without Harden? Where would Houston run to when Harden is injured? I get that Curry has been amazing but I'm simply stating that Harden has been better and has had to lead a team that isn't as good as the Warriors are. That's not a slight against GSW at all. As for Houston being lower in the wins column, well, that's true but I have a hard time seeing how any of that is James Harden's fault. He's just in a tough conference and they lost Parsons/got Ariza/have an injured Howard (who the past 9 games, Harden has had to carry). They could have easily been in doubt to make the playoffs.
Of course the Rockets are weak without Harden also. He has even less depth, so the fall off is large. I'm just saying, the difference in him not having those players has shown up. They're winning at a 69% rate in comparison to 82%. That's a big difference. They'll be the 2nd team in the last decade to win at that rate and he's the engine. Also, you say Harden's been better individually? Tough sell imo - I think they've brought relatively equal value and might give Curry the slight edge (the tiebreaker to me being that Curry was easily better overall in their 4 matchups). What's your argument tho?

JordansBulls
02-11-2015, 08:52 PM
If G.S. stays the #1 seed it is Curry, if not then it is Harden as long as they don't fall below 3rd.

tredigs
02-11-2015, 08:55 PM
Except my points are valid while yours seem to be too generalized. Rockets are in the third seed with their second player being gone for 9 games (good enough to drop them to the 7th seed), while they just lost their 3rd best player in Parsons in return for Ariza -- who has been horrific offensively. In short, Harden has no where to turn to when he has a bad game. When Harden has a bad game, they most likely lose. Heck, even when he has great games, they still lose. GSW has won games when Curry played horrible. Against Kings, they win by 25 because Klay saves the day. Against Phoenix, they win with Curry playing bad offense. There are a bunch of games where he shoots 35% and they still blow teams out. You can't possibly tell me Curry doesn't have a squad.

Harden's shot 35% or lower in 15 games and they won 9 of them. Curry's shot 35% or less 5 times, and while they did win each game, 4 of those were lottery teams (Portland the other - where he held Lillard to 4 of 18). Actually it happened 2 nights ago (20/5/6 3 stls 1 TO on 35%) and we barely scraped by the Sixers.

jaydubb
02-11-2015, 08:57 PM
JayDubb forgot to vote on the poll. Rookie mistake.

I'm on my phone using tapatalk probably 95% of the time I post so I don't see polls. Otherwise I would.. Haha

tredigs
02-11-2015, 09:04 PM
^Hawk you able to add one?

mightybosstone
02-11-2015, 09:43 PM
How in the hell is Anthony Davis not on this poll? That's pathetic Goose. You're better than that. He might be a distant third in the MVP race right now, but he's probably a better candidate for that No. 3 spot than anyone else in the league.

As for the MVP race, there's two obvious schools of thought:

1. Steph Curry. He's the best player on the best team in the league, and his advanced stats are nearly identical to Harden's. Winning all four head-to-head matchups against Houston helps.

2. James Harden. His advanced are every bit as good as Curry's, he's playing more minutes and posting up more overall production across the board. If Houston stays in the top 3-4 seeds in the West despite missing Dwight for 30+ games this season, that gives Harden a huge boost. And although he lost all four games against Golden State, he played extremely well in three of them.

Personally, I'm taking Harden. I would like to think its an unbiased pick, but I can't promise that. If you watch a player for nearly 80% of his games every season and love that player, it's hard to look at a race like this with an unbiased perspective. But the unbiased NBA fan in me thinks this race is honestly a coin flip. If voters go the "best player on the best team" route, then the award is Curry's. If voters go with the "guy with beastly stats who kept his team winning without his No. 2" route, then the award is Harden's.

tredigs
02-11-2015, 10:13 PM
The thing is, if a team finishes with 66+ wins (>80% win%), their top player almost always gets MVP. 11 out of the 13 times it's happened that's been the case.

Only times it didn't happen was in '72 when Kareem had arguably the best regular season ever and the Bucks won 63 (Jerry West + Wilt's Lakers won 69) and in the Celtics Big-3 08 team when they decided to finally give one to Kobe.

Couple that with the fact that a player whose team didn't even win their own division has won MVP maybe 3 times (? hasn't happened once in the last 30 years), and history basically dictates it's going to Curry at this pace.

nastynice
02-11-2015, 10:33 PM
But as you said yourself when you ask those two teams they just vote for their own guy (you and every Houston fan here so far has voted for Harden for example). It would be a boring discussion that would lead to nothing but bickering IMO. Especially with there being so many trolls on both sides.

Personally if Memphis can finish third I think Gasol should be in the conversation. I also feel like Lebron might be in for a shout depending on how Cleveland do after the ASG.


Interestingly I just checked the NBA MVP Ladder and they have it as;

1. Curry
2. Lebron
3. Harden
4. Teague
5. Gasol
6. Klay
7. Lillard
8. Wall
9. Westbrook
10. Davis



That doesn't look right to me at all. Aside from Curry being #1 ;)

lol, they got lebron over harden?!?!

at this point, it comes down to Curry and Harden. take ur pick, flip a coin, throw at a dart board, do whatever u want, I'll rep my dub city and say Curry

Tony_Starks
02-11-2015, 10:45 PM
Did I just see Teague at 4th on the MVP latter? Lord have mercy......

LA_Raiders
02-11-2015, 10:59 PM
Curry no question. Harden needs to learn to play D.

Redrum187
02-12-2015, 12:49 AM
I keep reading, "If Houston can still stay 3rd place without Howard, then it should go to him"...

1.) As of right this second, WHO do you have, Curry or Harden? Why?
2.) If Houston manages to stay 3rd but Curry and the GSW never lose another game, we just say "screw Curry even though he lead his team to a 73-9 record. Harden doesn't have Dwight Howard, he wins."? Aren't there a multitude of variables to consider... the least of which should be injuries??!!

This injury non-sense allows the player to have the best of both worlds... if he produces inferior team record and/or individual stats while a teammate is out, "it's because his teammate was injured"... if he has better stats, "it's because he has been carrying the team". Essentially, it is a ginormous blessing for one's hopes of being MVP if your teammate gets injured. How is that not ludicrous?

Chrisclover
02-12-2015, 01:17 AM
Steph curry followed by harden. To me it's a two horse race
Yea, it is a tough match between them. Curry has evolved from a shooter and Harden is playing D. And both teams are winning. But maybe Harden gets an upper hand. Dwight is missing a bevy of games whereas the warriors are healthy.

tredigs
02-12-2015, 02:26 AM
Yea, it is a tough match between them. Curry has evolved from a shooter and Harden is playing D. And both teams are winning. But maybe Harden gets an upper hand. Dwight is missing a bevy of games whereas the warriors are healthy.

The Warriors are "healthy" mantra w/ everyone mentioning Dwight and T Jones being out is off. The Warriors backup center has been out the majority of the season (and that won't change going forward), with the starting center Bogut missing nearly the same amount of time as Howard. And when Bogut has played, it's often on a minute restriction. DH has spent a lot more time on the floor for Houston than Bogut has for GS.

They've also been without David Lee entirely for half the year.

They're still the more talented team (and it shows up in Houston having twice as many losses), but this team has been far from 100%, and without Curry's performances they'd be in a lot of trouble out West.

As for Harden playing D, somewhat... I saw more defensive lapses from him in tonight's game alone then I'll see in 2 weeks from Curry. Completely losing Reddick due to not paying attention, getting 100% burned by him in ISO on the next possession for a layup, etc.

Goose17
02-12-2015, 02:56 AM
How in the hell is Anthony Davis not on this poll? That's pathetic Goose. You're better than that. He might be a distant third in the MVP race right now, but he's probably a better candidate for that No. 3 spot than anyone else in the league.



There's an "others" option for a reason. Do I need to explain what the "others" option is for? Is it a foreign concept to you?

There's a few people that could have been on that list. I just noted down the first few from contending teams that came to my head.

valade16
02-12-2015, 11:36 AM
It's between Curry and Harden to me but I'm going Curry.

Dead heat statistically and in terms of importance and impact to their team, but Curry plays slightly better defense and he has led his team to a far better record.

Verbal Christ
02-16-2015, 09:26 PM
https://twitter.com/tomhaberstroh/status/567419475210010624

James Edward Harden Jr

Raps18-19 Champ
02-16-2015, 09:33 PM
I can't see how it's not Curry at this point.

rhino17
02-16-2015, 09:38 PM
It's only between Curry and Harden, not other players should even be considered

DemarDerozan
02-16-2015, 10:16 PM
Curry... Or the Atlanta Hawks starting five.

Laker Legend42
02-16-2015, 10:22 PM
I would say Steph curry or James harden. I don't think you can go wrong either way. Harden has to do a whole lot for his team. Curry is the next really big thing as far as back court players go.

mightybosstone
02-16-2015, 10:53 PM
There's an "others" option for a reason. Do I need to explain what the "others" option is for? Is it a foreign concept to you?

There's a few people that could have been on that list. I just noted down the first few from contending teams that came to my head.
No excuse, Goose. Anyone who has remotely followed basketball this season knows that Davis has been a top 5 MVP candidate since pretty much week one.

rhino17
02-16-2015, 11:35 PM
No excuse, Goose. Anyone who has remotely followed basketball this season knows that Davis has been a top 5 MVP candidate since pretty much week one.

No way he is top 5, there is 0% chance he is even ton a make the playoffs. He's maybe a top 10 candidate, but thats about it.

chi-townlove1
02-16-2015, 11:38 PM
^ you sir, are clueless. AD is 3rd in mvp race and it ain't even close. Like not even in the conversation with someone else.

mightybosstone
02-17-2015, 12:04 AM
No way he is top 5, there is 0% chance he is even ton a make the playoffs. He's maybe a top 10 candidate, but thats about it.

Zero percent? That's pretty ignorant man. New Orleans is about on par with Phoenix, and OKC is one more significant Durant or Westbrook injury away from missing the playoffs entirely.

Also, since when do you need to play on a great team to at least be in the MVP discussion? Kobe finished in the top five two of those years when the Lakers were mediocre as hell between Shaq and Pau. And I believe Kevin Love finished top 5 or 6 one year despite not making the playoffs. Great players still get recognized on mediocre teams. And not only is Davis having a better season than Love or Kobe had those years, but his team is not half bad. You put this New Orleans team in most conferences in the history of the league and they're easily in the playoffs.

NoahH
02-17-2015, 12:07 AM
IMO it's a two-horse race between harden and curry.

If the Warriors finish with a significantly better record than the Rockets, Curry wins. If not, Harden wins.

lol, please
02-17-2015, 12:08 AM
Curry and it's not close.

lol, please
02-17-2015, 12:09 AM
No excuse, Goose. Anyone who has remotely followed basketball this season knows that Davis has been a top 5 MVP candidate since pretty much week one.

Since week 1. :laugh2: I am a huge Davis fan but don't be foolish, no one is an MVP candidate after one week, that's beyond a small sample size, you know better then to spew nonsense like that.

IKnowHoops
02-17-2015, 01:42 AM
Based off who is playing the best
1.Harden
2.Curry
3.AD
4.Westbrook
5.Lebron

But actual is

1.Harden
2.Curry
3.Bron
4.Westbrook
5.AD

AD and Westbrook are playing great but both may miss the playoffs and AD for sure will. So the league doesn't give "8th seed and lower guys" MVP's.

I have a feeling Bron will challenger for the MVP with a 2nd half run.

zn23
02-17-2015, 01:50 AM
If the Thunder weren't so bad I think Westbrook would be running away with it. I just don't think they'll be able to get like a top 4 or 5 seed. The MVP award is based a lot around team success so Harden and Curry are probably front runners, but I think Westbrook has had a better year than both.

Redrum187
02-17-2015, 02:20 AM
Curry by a decent margin. Harden is the only real competition, but James is gaining lots of speed as of late.

JJ_JKidd
02-17-2015, 02:47 AM
James Harden. Its the player that stupid analysts are into right now. November it was Anthony Davis, December it was John Wall, January it was Steph, now its Harden.

Doesnt matter though. Its the Final MVP that matters.

DemarDerozan
02-17-2015, 02:51 AM
Lebron of course...
Because even though his team barely has the 12th best record in the league and he skipped two weeks to vacay down in Miami during a time of adversity... Well he's just still so great. He's really going to show everyone in the second half of the season. I really know Lebron. He's the best!

rockets-fan
02-17-2015, 02:52 AM
Curry. Best player in te best team and he's playing amazing...if Harden can lead the rockets to a top seed with howard out if give it to him

basketfan4life
02-17-2015, 03:31 AM
1-Curry
2-Harden





Someone..

Sadds The Gr8
02-17-2015, 03:33 AM
Harden

Goose17
02-17-2015, 04:09 AM
No excuse, Goose. Anyone who has remotely followed basketball this season knows that Davis has been a top 5 MVP candidate since pretty much week one.

It's rare for someone outside of a top 2-3 seed to win MVP. Off the top of my head I can't think of a time that it happened.

mightybosstone
02-17-2015, 10:06 AM
It's rare for someone outside of a top 2-3 seed to win MVP. Off the top of my head I can't think of a time that it happened.

I'm not saying he has to win it. I'm saying he's a top 5 candidate. In reality, there are probably only four players in the entire league right now capable of winning this thing: Curry, Harden, James and Gasol. Westbrook and Durant have missed too many games and nobody else in the East or West have the stats or the team success to achieve that goal. So outside of those four guys, I think Davis could absolutely finish fifth in MVP voting. Hell, you could argue he's having the best season of any player in the league.

Goose17
02-17-2015, 10:28 AM
I'm not saying he has to win it. I'm saying he's a top 5 candidate. In reality, there are probably only four players in the entire league right now capable of winning this thing: Curry, Harden, James and Gasol. Westbrook and Durant have missed too many games and nobody else in the East or West have the stats or the team success to achieve that goal. So outside of those four guys, I think Davis could absolutely finish fifth in MVP voting. Hell, you could argue he's having the best season of any player in the league.

I think the other guys I put on the list have more chance of winning due to either;

1. History, winning an MVP award in recent years and being a face of the league (KD, LBJ).
2. Having a very high chance of finishing in the top 3 seeds (Gasol, Lillard, Harden, Curry).

I think the odds of Davis winning the MVP award are beyond slim, he would literally be the only player in the entire history of the league to do so without being a part of a playoff squad. I didn't leave him off the list because he doesn't deserve it. I left him off the list because it's highly unlikely that he will and he's barely on the NBAs MVP ladder (which is garbage but whatever).

mightybosstone
02-17-2015, 10:34 AM
I think the other guys I put on the list have more chance of winning due to either;

1. History, winning an MVP award in recent years and being a face of the league (KD, LBJ).
2. Having a very high chance of finishing in the top 3 seeds (Gasol, Lillard, Harden, Curry).

I think the odds of Davis winning the MVP award are beyond slim, he would literally be the only player in the entire history of the league to do so without being a part of a playoff squad. I didn't leave him off the list because he doesn't deserve it. I left him off the list because it's highly unlikely that he will and he's barely on the NBAs MVP ladder (which is garbage but whatever).

I think Lillard has as much of a chance of winning MVP as Davis does: zero. His numbers are not remotely in the vicinity of Harden, Curry or James, and he doesn't have the defensive impact or a better team than Gasol.

Like I said, if I had to predict realistic MVP candidates right now, it would be the four guys I mentioned, and I don't think there's a close fifth. That fifth guy might as well be Davis, who is having as good a season as anyone. He's basically having a Kevin Love year but with the added bonus of playing defense and playing a team that would easily be in the postseason in the Eastern Conference.

If Love can finish 6th in the MVP voting, than Davis can certainly finish fifth.

Goose17
02-17-2015, 10:40 AM
I think Lillard has as much of a chance of winning MVP as Davis does: zero. His numbers are not remotely in the vicinity of Harden, Curry or James, and he doesn't have the defensive impact or a better team than Gasol.

Like I said, if I had to predict realistic MVP candidates right now, it would be the four guys I mentioned, and I don't think there's a close fifth. That fifth guy might as well be Davis, who is having as good a season as anyone. He's basically having a Kevin Love year but with the added bonus of playing defense and playing a team that would easily be in the postseason in the Eastern Conference.

If Love can finish 6th in the MVP voting, than Davis can certainly finish fifth.

So basically you would rather I put the options on the poll as; Curry, Harden, James, Gasol, Other.

It's the inclusion of Lillard and KD you have issue with, not that I left out Davis?

mightybosstone
02-17-2015, 11:38 AM
So basically you would rather I put the options on the poll as; Curry, Harden, James, Gasol, Other.

It's the inclusion of Lillard and KD you have issue with, not that I left out Davis?

Well, I guess it's both. If you were going to include anybody other than those four guys, I think Davis is more worthy than Lillard or Durant. Also, Durant's likelihood of winning the award is pretty much zero since he missed so many games. Westbrook probably has a better chance than he does right now. And if we're throwing out point guards with a small chance at the award, I think Paul and Wall are every bit as deserving as Lillard. In fact, with Griffin missing significant time, Paul probably has a puncher's chance at cracking the top three now.

Goose17
02-17-2015, 11:47 AM
I think Davis is more worthy than Lillard or Durant.

I agree but as I said I didn't exclude Davis due to him not being worthy of the MVP award, I excluded him because it's nearly impossible for a guy from a non-playoff team to win it. Lillard was included because Portland have a chance of finishing in the top 3 and Durant was included because he's one of the faces of the league and last years winner. Also, they were both on the MVP ladder at the time.

IKnowHoops
02-17-2015, 01:08 PM
Lebron of course...
Because even though his team barely has the 12th best record in the league and he skipped two weeks to vacay down in Miami during a time of adversity... Well he's just still so great. He's really going to show everyone in the second half of the season. I really know Lebron. He's the best!

Very very smart man here.

IKnowHoops
02-17-2015, 01:09 PM
It's rare for someone outside of a top 2-3 seed to win MVP. Off the top of my head I can't think of a time that it happened.

Steve Nash the second time.

Goose17
02-17-2015, 01:51 PM
Steve Nash the second time.

I'm extremely confident they were a top 3 seed that year. They won the Pacific so...

JWO35
02-17-2015, 01:57 PM
Chicken Curry

jason
02-17-2015, 04:00 PM
Wardell Stephen Curry II

Trwood12
02-17-2015, 04:29 PM
James Harden. He has been carrying a heavier load than the other guys. He's putting up 27/6/5 on 61 TS%. His second banana has been hurt all season and harden is still able to keep his team a top 3 seed.

Not a Rockets fan...btw. I'm a LeBron/KD/AD fan.
Second banana?

IKnowHoops
02-17-2015, 07:07 PM
I'm extremely confident they were a top 3 seed that year. They won the Pacific so...

Your absolutely right. My bad. thought they were like a 4 or 5 seed

mightybosstone
02-17-2015, 07:12 PM
Second banana?

Dwight Howard.

Trwood12
02-17-2015, 10:39 PM
Dwight Howard.

I know what he meant. I've just never heard that expression before, and it amused me.

Verbal Christ
02-18-2015, 01:23 PM
Cover Boy

http://www.si.com/nba/2015/02/17/houston-rockets-james-harden-sports-illustrated-cover

I like how he can humble himself yet still have upmost confidence in his ability.

lol, please
02-18-2015, 02:10 PM
Harden and humble don't belong in the same paragraph

Verbal Christ
02-18-2015, 03:17 PM
Burns so bad.

Say shoot me the link on the SI cover article on Steph or Klay, I would love to read it.

tredigs
02-18-2015, 04:00 PM
Burns so bad.

Say shoot me the link on the SI cover article on Steph or Klay, I would love to read it.

Is this Harden's first cover?

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/media/2.0/teamsites/warriors/images/CurrySICover_ForWeb.jpg

http://www.slamonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/stephencurryslamcover11.jpg

https://sigroup.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/curry.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-uXSBqgX506A/UnNiUTWJ_cI/AAAAAAAAGcU/lXk349j3V6c/s1600/Curry+Cover.jpeg

http://cdn.slamonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/186_sc_640_2.jpg

Let me know when you're done with those and we can fwd some others.

tredigs
02-18-2015, 04:07 PM
Between winning the most prestigious/followed event at an ASG in some time and showcasing arguably the highest entertainment value during the actual game (he says you're welcome for the oop Harden), Curry only solidified himself as the leader coming out of the ASG weekend. As GS continues its win difference on Houston - which was supplemented by the 4-0 drubbings where Curry was the better player of the two - this should only widen the gap between the two by the time it's actually time to vote.

jerellh528
02-18-2015, 04:11 PM
Is this Harden's first cover?

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/media/2.0/teamsites/warriors/images/CurrySICover_ForWeb.jpg

http://www.slamonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/stephencurryslamcover11.jpg

https://sigroup.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/curry.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-uXSBqgX506A/UnNiUTWJ_cI/AAAAAAAAGcU/lXk349j3V6c/s1600/Curry+Cover.jpeg

http://cdn.slamonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/186_sc_640_2.jpg

Let me know when you're done with those and we can fwd some others.

Slayed :burn:

JasonJohnHorn
02-18-2015, 04:16 PM
There are a few guys have a great season.

I picked Curry, but I think Curry, Gasol and Harden are all equally deserving at this point.


KD doesn't get my vote because I think both he and Westy are equally important to OKC's turn around. It's the Kobe/Shaq effect; they are both so good, they cancel out the other's MVP votes because the team needs both of the so desperately.

LBJ is playing great, but he's taken time to get back into form after losing weight and getting into a new system, and I don't think the team has played at a high enough level, though they've been pretty good lately, and far better with James, but given the talent they have, they ought to be up at the top of the conference.

Lillard is playing great, but like Westy and KD, I think LMA has had a huge part in that team's success.

Over in ATL, those guys are just playing great TEAM ball, so no one is standing above the others. That said, anybody who casts a vote for Hordford is ok in my book. I won't argue against that.

And if there are some TO fans pushing for Lowry, I'll concede that though that is clearly a homer pick, there are some good points for him.


Still... in my mind the three clear-cut options are Gasol, Curry and Harden, in no particular order.

Chronz
02-18-2015, 05:09 PM
Can I vote for dat GS D?

lol, please
02-18-2015, 08:30 PM
Can I vote for dat GS D?
Careful, acknowledging elite defenders like Klay is frowned upon on PSD.

valade16
02-18-2015, 08:58 PM
Careful, acknowledging elite defenders like Klay is frowned upon on PSD.

I think acknowledging that Bogut, Draymond and Iggy are better defenders than Klay is frowned upon by GS fans.

Chronz
02-18-2015, 09:12 PM
I think acknowledging that Bogut, Draymond and Iggy are better defenders than Klay is frowned upon by Klay fans.
fixed

Verbal Christ
02-18-2015, 09:36 PM
how adorable! people still read slam? i quit that urban rag after puberty. that SI piece was nice though nothing new or fresh given the nba's new darling. hard to do that when you are the villain like James Edward Harden Jr is, but its a start.

thanks tre you are so objective and helpful this board is blessed to have you as a member, shoot me the klay covers (non slam plz)

have a nice day! hopefully you dont slay me again i couldnt bear the embarassment

G_S_W
02-18-2015, 10:32 PM
Gasol will finish a distant fourth in overall voting.

Right now, Curry is a clear favorite. I do think Lebron could steal the MVP if the Cavs put together a couple of impressive winning streaks and finish either 1 or a close 2 in the east.

I do think it will be Curry though. The media tends to form a "groupthink" opinion very early on, and tend to stick with the herd consensus until the end.

nastynice
02-19-2015, 12:51 AM
Is this Harden's first cover?


lol

nastynice
02-19-2015, 12:52 AM
I think acknowledging that Bogut, Draymond and Iggy are better defenders than Klay is frowned upon by GS fans.

wtf? all those guys are on the warriors...? why would gs fans frown on that?

nastynice
02-19-2015, 12:53 AM
how adorable! people still read slam? i quit that urban rag after puberty. that SI piece was nice though nothing new or fresh given the nba's new darling. hard to do that when you are the villain like James Edward Harden Jr is, but its a start.

thanks tre you are so objective and helpful this board is blessed to have you as a member, shoot me the klay covers (non slam plz)

have a nice day! hopefully you dont slay me again i couldnt bear the embarassment

saltyyy, haha

why do u say Harden is a villain? what do u mean?

lol, please
02-19-2015, 01:38 AM
saltyyy, haha

why do u say Harden is a villain? what do u mean?

Harden is a villan because Curry is considered the better player and ahead in the MVP race, Harden gets (rightfully) criticized for underperforming in the playoffs, Klay can shut him down, and the world acknowledges his addiction to flopping, and calling the best team in the NBA "Not that good".

Goose17
02-19-2015, 06:48 AM
Curry has close to 60% of the votes in the poll at this point. Will be interesting to see who the same people vote for after this last stretch of the season is done.





thanks tre you are so objective and helpful this board is blessed to have you as a member, shoot me the klay covers (non slam plz)


LOL... good to see you measuring who the better player is by who's made more magazine covers. Your basketball knowledge is astounding, love your analysis :laugh:




Slayed :burn:

:laugh2: scorched



I think acknowledging that Bogut, Draymond and Iggy are better defenders than Klay is frowned upon by GS fans.

What? I mean the gap between him and Iguodala is closing (Iguodala regressing a little, Thompson improving a lot). But why would we frown upon that? The fact that we have three of the best perimeter defenders in the league and one of the best defensive big men is something we're likely to boast about not frown upon. The reason SOME fans value Klay more than Iguodala is because the gap between them defensively isn't that great meanwhile the gap between them offensively is huge, Klay gets it done on both ends.

Goose17
02-19-2015, 06:51 AM
shoot me the klay covers (non slam plz)


Just so you know that SI cover Harden appeared on? He was one of THREE athletes picked as the cover athlete that week (Regional covers are a pain huh?). The other two athletes were Jimmy Butler AND......



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-D3m0YCcAASOvK.jpg





hopefully you dont slay me again i couldnt bear the embarassment

Oh dear... my bad?

mightybosstone
02-19-2015, 09:43 AM
Curry has close to 60% of the votes in the poll at this point. Will be interesting to see who the same people vote for after this last stretch of the season is done.
If Harden keeps playing at this level and the Rockets keep winning games without Dwight, I think he's going to convert a lot of potential Curry voters post All-Star break. But only time will tell. Golden State also has to keep up the torrid pace it's on. If they fall off or Memphis catches up with them, that also bodes well for Harden.


LOL... good to see you measuring who the better player is by who's made more magazine covers. Your basketball knowledge is astounding, love your analysis :laugh:
In his defense, Harden's cover did have "MVP" in the headline. :cool:

mightybosstone
02-19-2015, 09:51 AM
Harden is a villan because Curry is considered the better player and ahead in the MVP race
:confused: .......wut?


Harden gets (rightfully) criticized for underperforming in the playoffs, Klay can shut him down, and the world acknowledges his addiction to flopping, and calling the best team in the NBA "Not that good".
Oh really? Let me just place this here....
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=hardeja01&p2=thompkl01

If Klay's version of "shutting Harden down" is Harden averaging 25/6/5/2 over the last four years against him, then you and I have very different meanings of the phrase "shutting down." Harden also still has a winning record against the Warriors and even outplayed Klay in three of the four head-to-head matchups this season despite the Warriors sweeping the Rockets.

You're basically just talking out of your ***, which is pretty par for the course lately.

Goose17
02-19-2015, 09:51 AM
If Harden keeps playing at this level and the Rockets keep winning games without Dwight, I think he's going to convert a lot of potential Curry voters post All-Star break. But only time will tell. Golden State also has to keep up the torrid pace it's on. If they fall off or Memphis catches up with them, that also bodes well for Harden.

Agreed.

Goose17
02-19-2015, 10:00 AM
Oh really? Let me just place this here....
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=hardeja01&p2=thompkl01

If Klay's version of "shutting Harden down" is Harden averaging 25/6/5/2 over the last four years against him, then you and I have very different meanings of the phrase "shutting down." Harden also still has a winning record against the Warriors and even outplayed Klay in three of the four head-to-head matchups this season despite the Warriors sweeping the Rockets.

You're basically just talking out of your ***, which is pretty par for the course lately.

To be fair I believe he was talking about this season only (Klay in previous seasons isn't comparable to Harden or even to the current version of himself, he's upped his game significantly).

Hardens numbers this year V Klay;

Nov 8th; 22 points on 33% (1 for 11 from deep)
Dec 10th; 34 points on 51%
January 17th; 12 points on 26%
Jan 21st; 33 points on 43% and FOURTEEN made free throws (that's 19 points when you exclude the refs bailing him out/giving him superstar calls and all the flopping).


So yeah... he's locked him down three games out of four but one of those three Harden was repeatedly bailed out by the refs :)

pebloemer
02-19-2015, 10:15 AM
Harden
Curry
Gasol

mightybosstone
02-19-2015, 10:15 AM
To be fair I believe he was talking about this season only (Klay in previous seasons isn't comparable to Harden or even to the current version of himself, he's upped his game significantly).

Hardens numbers this year V Klay;

Nov 8th; 22 points on 33% (1 for 11 from deep)
Dec 10th; 34 points on 51%
January 17th; 12 points on 26%
Jan 21st; 33 points on 43% and FOURTEEN made free throws (that's 19 points when you exclude the refs bailing him out/giving him superstar calls and all the flopping).

So yeah... he's locked him down three games out of four but one of those three Harden was repeatedly bailed out by the refs :)

Two things.... First off, look at Thompson's numbers in that first game. He may have "locked Harden down," but he was even worse. A lot worse. The Rockets were also without a bunch of their rotation for that game, and the entire Warriors squad was honing in on Harden.

Second, I don't buy that Harden scoring 33 points is in any way, shape or form being locked down. Just because the guy gets to the free throw line a lot doesn't mean it's not deserved. And 44% shooting is not remotely in the vicinity of being locked down. If a guy puts up 33/6/4/2/1 against you with decent scoring efficiency, you have no right whatsoever to claim that you locked him down.

So basically, you're using a two-game sample size to try and prove a point. Sorry if I don't take it all that seriously when I have four years of data that tells me Harden has gone off plenty against the Warriors.

Teeboy1487
02-19-2015, 10:23 AM
They should have two awards. One for the best player on the best team award and MVP. The media over the years have clearly lost sight of the meaning MVP. James Harden is the MVP personified right now. He has literally been the most valuable player in the league. Without him, Houston is probably in the lottery.

lol, please
02-19-2015, 06:04 PM
Yea, two awards so Harden still gets one since the clear objective choice for mvp is curry. Makes sense.

Saddletramp
02-19-2015, 07:03 PM
To be fair I believe he was talking about this season only (Klay in previous seasons isn't comparable to Harden or even to the current version of himself, he's upped his game significantly).

Hardens numbers this year V Klay;

Nov 8th; 22 points on 33% (1 for 11 from deep)
Dec 10th; 34 points on 51%
January 17th; 12 points on 26%
Jan 21st; 33 points on 43% and FOURTEEN made free throws (that's 19 points when you exclude the refs bailing him out/giving him superstar calls and all the flopping).


So yeah... he's locked him down three games out of four but one of those three Harden was repeatedly bailed out by the refs :)

I remember that game. He was getting legit fouled most of that game and in no way was going to the line only because of flopping/superstar calls. Stop acting like a jerk.

Sanjay
02-19-2015, 07:06 PM
They should have two awards. One for the best player on the best team award and MVP. The media over the years have clearly lost sight of the meaning MVP. James Harden is the MVP personified right now. He has literally been the most valuable player in the league. Without him, Houston is probably in the lottery.

I see what you are getting at here and I agree with your comments about Harden, but I am not so sure the best player on the team with the best regular season record should automatically get an award every year. I love Duncan, but if the Spurs are the top team each year should Timmy get an award even though he is past his elite playing days? And isn't the best player on the best team award the Finals MVP? By the way, I think there should also be an award for playoffs MVP because the post-season is more than just the Finals.

Regarding the definition of MVP, I believe it is unfair to 'punish' someone for having great players around them (Curry would look even better if he was on a worse team), giving them a lesser chance of winning MVP. I think the award should be for the best player in the league based on how they performed in that particular season, not based on their expectation (LeBron has been playing the best this season, but because the Cavs struggled early on he has not been recognized as much) or who they play with (Klay would be in the MVP conversation if he did not play with Curry).

Verbal Christ
02-19-2015, 07:26 PM
darn im getting clowned on by like minded individuals whatever will i do

should have known better than to bring up mag covers when facing the leagues media darlings

Goose17
02-19-2015, 07:34 PM
darn im getting clowned on by like minded individuals whatever will i do

should have known better than to bring up mag covers when facing the leagues media darlings

Careful you don't fall over, backtracking so quickly.

IKnowHoops
02-19-2015, 07:39 PM
Harden is the MVP so far. He's carrying Houston right now while leading the league in scoring. Steph is playing great but statistically he is not putting up the numbers that Harden is.

Verbal Christ
02-19-2015, 07:41 PM
Careful you don't fall over, backtracking so quickly.

i can admit fault can you?

Goose17
02-19-2015, 07:45 PM
i can admit fault can you?

Sure but I wasn't wrong about that. And you didn't actually admit fault you laughed at off and tried to play it like it was all a big joke.

Don't be mad you keep getting exposed. Just quit trolling and have an actual discussion with people instead.

tredigs
02-19-2015, 07:45 PM
i can admit fault can you?

We're just laughing at you switching up the statement while simultaneously maintaining your *** hole vibe, only to be clowned and set in place again. Your shtick is backfiring all over this board, ya might want to hedge a new angle?

Verbal Christ
02-19-2015, 07:53 PM
lol whats the exposure though? slam hype men with keyboards vs legitimate writers? what i stop posting now? LOL you got me i can laugh at myself shouldnt have gotte excited over the mag cover and kept the argument tangible

Goose17
02-19-2015, 07:59 PM
lol whats the exposure though? slam hype men with keyboards vs legitimate writers? what i stop posting now? LOL you got me i can laugh at myself shouldnt have gotte excited over the mag cover and kept the argument tangible

Are you just rambling on purpose now or?....

Verbal Christ
02-19-2015, 08:01 PM
says the 'smart' goose LOL

Goose17
02-19-2015, 08:14 PM
says the 'smart' goose LOL

:clap:

curtcocaine
02-19-2015, 08:26 PM
Feeding a troll is like giving a mouse a cracker.......

lol, please
02-19-2015, 10:22 PM
Even verbal Christ voted for curry.

mightybosstone
02-19-2015, 10:44 PM
Yea, two awards so Harden still gets one since the clear objective choice for mvp is curry. Makes sense.

Does your mother still do hard drugs or only when she was pregnant with you? Also can you please tell her to delete my number from her phone? It was a one-time thing and I don't appreciate getting sexts at 2 in the morning on Tuesdays.

lol, please
02-19-2015, 10:45 PM
Stay classy bosstone :)

Saddletramp
02-19-2015, 10:45 PM
MBT, don't stoop.

mightybosstone
02-19-2015, 10:48 PM
Stay classy bosstone :)


MBT, don't stoop.
Went out with the wife for some drinks tonight. Sober MBT has a filter. Drunk MBT not so much...

lol, please
02-19-2015, 10:49 PM
Drunk mbt is entertaining, just don't get banned, we need you here.

nastynice
02-20-2015, 03:33 AM
Just so you know that SI cover Harden appeared on? He was one of THREE athletes picked as the cover athlete that week (Regional covers are a pain huh?). The other two athletes were Jimmy Butler AND......



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-D3m0YCcAASOvK.jpg





Oh dear... my bad?

lol, keeps getting better n better...

nastynice
02-20-2015, 03:35 AM
LOL you got me i can laugh at myself shouldnt have gotte excited over the mag cover and kept the argument tangible

haha, I can respect that. we all been there before...;)

tredigs
02-21-2015, 12:54 PM
Harden still above Lebron for 2nd?

IKnowHoops
02-21-2015, 07:45 PM
I still think Harden is #1. I'm fine with it being a toss up either way, but only homers act like its guaranteed for either one. I think most fans of neither say its a tossup. Lebron is still third, but since 1 and 2 are so close, he will likely pass them both in the same week if and when that week does come.

tredigs
02-21-2015, 07:51 PM
I still think Harden is #1. I'm fine with it being a toss up either way, but only homers act like its guaranteed for either one. I think most fans of neither say its a tossup. Lebron is still third, but since 1 and 2 are so close, he will likely pass them both in the same week if and when that week does come.

Curry, Harden and AD have all been better individually than Lebron this season (bettering him in PER, WS, RPM, VORP, BPM, TS%, etc etc) and none of them took weeks off to rest their "mind, body and spirit" during their teams toughest slate. He has no legitimate case over Curry. With Harden and the Rockets slipping to the 4 seed and just a half game up from the 6 seed, he can begin his case there.

To say it's a toss up or that Harden should be #1 with the record discrepancy is historically ridiculous. You can make the argument that he's had to carry a larger load of course, but it's predictably resulting in a far inferior product. So what's the case there?

lol, please
02-21-2015, 09:29 PM
Curry, Harden and AD have all been better individually than Lebron this season (bettering him in PER, WS, RPM, VORP, BPM, TS%, etc etc) and none of them took weeks off to rest their "mind, body and spirit" during their teams toughest slate. He has no legitimate case over Curry. With Harden and the Rockets slipping to the 4 seed and just a half game up from the 6 seed, he can begin his case there.

To say it's a toss up or that Harden should be #1 with the record discrepancy is historically ridiculous. You can make the argument that he's had to carry a larger load of course, but it's predictably resulting in a far inferior product. So what's the case there?
Good post. I agree completely.

IKnowHoops
02-21-2015, 11:10 PM
Curry, Harden and AD have all been better individually than Lebron this season (bettering him in PER, WS, RPM, VORP, BPM, TS%, etc etc) and none of them took weeks off to rest their "mind, body and spirit" during their teams toughest slate. He has no legitimate case over Curry. With Harden and the Rockets slipping to the 4 seed and just a half game up from the 6 seed, he can begin his case there.

To say it's a toss up or that Harden should be #1 with the record discrepancy is historically ridiculous. You can make the argument that he's had to carry a larger load of course, but it's predictably resulting in a far inferior product. So what's the case there?

When looking at advance stats between Curry and Harden its basically a wash. Curry gets one more asst a game, Harden gets one more rebound. I don't hold it against Harden at all that he has a worse supporting cast than Curry. And him leading the leading in scoring, specifically scoring 4 points a game more than Steph is more impressive to me from an individual effort stand point than the 8 games more that Houston has lost than Golden State which is completely a total team effort and has nothing to do with Steph playing better than James.

So with that said, I believe statistically James has been better. I believe Steph's team is better, so I conclude James is my MVP right now.

As far as it being historically ridiculous...Steve Nash won the MVP in 05-06 while having a worse record and being severely out played by Dirk so...at least Harden is statistically superior...and his record is good enough to where, if he is statistically the best player, (which it is close but I give it to him without a doubt in my mind) he should win.

Now again, homers are the only ones taking a stance that its there man or its ridiculous. Fans of neither are fine with either, or think one is in the lead by a hair.

tredigs
02-22-2015, 12:12 AM
When looking at advance stats between Curry and Harden its basically a wash. Curry gets one more asst a game, Harden gets one more rebound. I don't hold it against Harden at all that he has a worse supporting cast than Curry. And him leading the leading in scoring, specifically scoring 4 points a game more than Steph is more impressive to me from an individual effort stand point than the 8 games more that Houston has lost than Golden State which is completely a total team effort and has nothing to do with Steph playing better than James.

So with that said, I believe statistically James has been better. I believe Steph's team is better, so I conclude James is my MVP right now.

As far as it being historically ridiculous...Steve Nash won the MVP in 05-06 while having a worse record and being severely out played by Dirk so...at least Harden is statistically superior...and his record is good enough to where, if he is statistically the best player, (which it is close but I give it to him without a doubt in my mind) he should win.

Now again, homers are the only ones taking a stance that its there man or its ridiculous. Fans of neither are fine with either, or think one is in the lead by a hair.

The per-game #'s, specifically the 4 points per game difference, are mainly due to increased minutes. Curry and co. are able to build big enough leads that they are able to weather the storm with him out (despite him leading the NBA in +/- and RPM, IE the fall off is huge without him). Overall, Curry's the more efficient scorer/offensive player and the stats back that up (leads him in PPP, TS%, Obpm, Orpm, Assist%, Turnover%, Offensive rating...) He's better.

Whether or not you don't care that the Rox have 2x as many losses as Golden State or that GS beat them up soundly in their 4 matchups is irrelevant; I'm saying that historically a player from a 4 seed will not win MVP over a player of Curry's caliber at the clear 1 seed.

PayDaPiper
02-22-2015, 12:13 AM
When looking at advance stats between Curry and Harden its basically a wash. Curry gets one more asst a game, Harden gets one more rebound. I don't hold it against Harden at all that he has a worse supporting cast than Curry. And him leading the leading in scoring, specifically scoring 4 points a game more than Steph is more impressive to me from an individual effort stand point than the 8 games more that Houston has lost than Golden State which is completely a total team effort and has nothing to do with Steph playing better than James.

So with that said, I believe statistically James has been better. I believe Steph's team is better, so I conclude James is my MVP right now.

As far as it being historically ridiculous...Steve Nash won the MVP in 05-06 while having a worse record and being severely out played by Dirk so...at least Harden is statistically superior...and his record is good enough to where, if he is statistically the best player, (which it is close but I give it to him without a doubt in my mind) he should win.

Now again, homers are the only ones taking a stance that its there man or its ridiculous. Fans of neither are fine with either, or think one is in the lead by a hair.

You have to take into account MPG if your going to go by those statistics. Harden averages 3.5 minutes a game more than Steph on the year, thus the slightly better numbers. PER is the better stat to go by because it takes MPG into account and Steph is slightly better in that regard.

tredigs
02-22-2015, 12:24 AM
Nash's 2nd MVP was a story MVP because he was the reigning MVP and still led the Suns to their division title + a higher seed than the Mavs w/ out an entire season of his All NBA All Star running mate Amare. He was a better player than Dwight is currently by a significant margin, and it was a full year loss. Hell, Howard's still played more minutes this season than Bogut, but you wouldn't know it from all the whining.

IKnowHoops
02-22-2015, 01:57 AM
I get all that, and your argument is fine. I have no problem with someone else picking Steph as the MVP. And Howard being out or in doesn't make the Houston Rockets supporting cast better than Golden States. If Steph is in the lead, I have no problem with it, and history shows you are right, but many people will vote for James...I'm one of them because I value what he's done in totality over what Steph has done. Steph can win it and I give him all the credit in the world for a well earned MVP. I'm still waiting on Lebron though to see if he goes Nova, and the Cavs go on a 20 game win streak or something to steal the MVP in "story book" fashion.

FlashBolt
02-22-2015, 04:50 AM
Just saying, Cavs are playing the Warriors/Rockets in the upcoming ten days. If James shuts them both out, I'm bumping him just below Curry/Harden. By below, I mean literally, right there. Curry just has a goddamn stacked roster man.. People are saying Klay is right there with Harden as the best SG but then they don't want to acknowledge that Curry has help? If Klay's the best SG, shouldn't he be competing against Curry for the MVP instead of Harden? Idk, you tell me.

Saddletramp
02-22-2015, 05:48 AM
Steph will probably win because the Warriors are so stacked. When you have another MVP candidate playing beside you, 2 recent All Stars on your bench, as solid a coaching staff as you'll find in the league and a guy that's in talks to be the MIP and Defensive Player of the Year, then of course he's going to have a team with a better record. If that's all it takes to win the MVP, then Curry hasn't done anything to screw it up, I guess. And it kind of sucks because Curry is legitimately one of the top 6 guys in the league, all things considered (LeBron, Durant, AD, Curry, Harden and Westbrook in some sort of order).

lol, please
02-22-2015, 01:15 PM
Crazy how Dwight and kobe used to be part of that list not long ago.

tredigs
02-22-2015, 01:23 PM
Is Klay Thompson really an MVP caliber player to posters on here now? Hahahahah. Good job 'lol, please', seems your trolling has had an effect.

I love Klay, but that is funny ****.

mightybosstone
02-22-2015, 01:27 PM
Steph will probably win because the Warriors are so stacked. When you have another MVP candidate playing beside you, 2 recent All Stars on your bench, as solid a coaching staff as you'll find in the league and a guy that's in talks to be the MIP and Defensive Player of the Year, then of course he's going to have a team with a better record. If that's all it takes to win the MVP, then Curry hasn't done anything to screw it up, I guess. And it kind of sucks because Curry is legitimately one of the top 6 guys in the league, all things considered (LeBron, Durant, AD, Curry, Harden and Westbrook in some sort of order).

This seems fair to me. All things being equal, I think Harden has had the slightly better season and had a greater role in his team's success than Curry. But Curry is going to win the award because he plays for the better basketball team and an absolutely stacked roster.

However, Dwight's absence does provide a unique advantage to Harden. But James had got to play better than he did against Dallas and Toronto and the Rockets have to win some big games if he's going to really take advantage of that. He needs to go on another string of 30-point games. And this is the perfect opportunity to do it, because Houston is about to go on a murderous row of games with LAC, Cleveland, Atlanta and Memphis in four of their next six. If you want to win MVP, beat those teams without Dwight and look good doing it.

tredigs
02-22-2015, 01:37 PM
This seems fair to me. All things being equal, I think Harden has had the slightly better season and had a greater role in his team's success than Curry. But Curry is going to win the award because he plays for the better basketball team and an absolutely stacked roster.

However, Dwight's absence does provide a unique advantage to Harden. But James had got to play better than he did against Dallas and Toronto and the Rockets have to win some big games if he's going to really take advantage of that. He needs to go on another string of 30-point games. And this is the perfect opportunity to do it, because Houston is about to go on a murderous row of games with LAC, Cleveland, Atlanta and Memphis in four of their next six. If you want to win MVP, beat those teams without Dwight and look good doing it.

That part would certainly help him big time. If they can win those with him beasting and the Warriors lose a couple in that same span, that'll make the media salivate.

As for the other piece, we can talk about the Warriors being "stacked" all we want (which I think they're very solid outside of backup C, though those awards come with the winning), but this is a team that was projected to win 50 games and fight for HCA who are currently holding the #2 SRS in NBA history -- and Curry is the offensive catalyst and absolute clear Alpha of this. His RPM and OBPM are still better than Harden's, AD's, Lebron's and everyone else. What that says is that as great as the Warriors are, the fall off without him on the court is larger than everybody else in the NBA without their star on the court. When you're talking about a team who is winning at a rate and with a differential that they are in this Western Conference, that's pretty telling as to who the rightful MVP is.

IKnowHoops
02-22-2015, 02:22 PM
Is Klay Thompson really an MVP caliber player to posters on here now? Hahahahah. Good job 'lol, please', seems your trolling has had an effect.

I love Klay, but that is funny ****.

He's not, but he does have the record for points in a quarter in NBA history this year. He's the second best SG in the league, behind the possible lead vote getter for the MVP this year.

IKnowHoops
02-22-2015, 02:26 PM
That part would certainly help him big time. If they can win those with him beasting and the Warriors lose a couple in that same span, that'll make the media salivate.

As for the other piece, we can talk about the Warriors being "stacked" all we want (which I think they're very solid outside of backup C, though those awards come with the winning), but this is a team that was projected to win 50 games and fight for HCA who are currently holding the #2 SRS in NBA history -- and Curry is the offensive catalyst and absolute clear Alpha of this. His RPM and OBPM are still better than Harden's, AD's, Lebron's and everyone else. What that says is that as great as the Warriors are, the fall off without him on the court is larger than everybody else in the NBA without their star on the court. When you're talking about a team who is winning at a rate and with a differential that they are in this Western Conference, that's pretty telling as to who the rightful MVP is.

The numbers being what they may, I can't see GSW without Curry being worse than Houston without Harden, or Cleveland without Bron. I just don't see that at all.

tredigs
02-22-2015, 02:31 PM
He's not, but he does have the record for points in a quarter in NBA history this year. He's the second best SG in the league, behind the possible lead vote getter for the MVP this year.

He's a fire-shooter, and that quarter was incredible. But it was a quarter. The argument is stronger for Butler than it is for Klay as #2 SG, and realistically Wade is better than both at full strength (not that I won't take Klay or Jimmy's consistent/reliable effort over him any day).

Bogut is the Warriors 2nd most important player - specifically without a backup C - and he has missed more time than Dwight. Following that it's Draymond and his defensive versatility or Klay. But neither hold a candle to Curry tbh, and this team would fall off in a major way from this pace without him. Probably would not be HCA, let alone winning at historic levels.

tredigs
02-22-2015, 02:35 PM
The numbers being what they may, I can't see GSW without Curry being worse than Houston without Harden, or Cleveland without Bron. I just don't see that at all.

Cleveland without Bron is relative. They're a far different roster now than they were to start the season. He's truly not in the MVP discussion for me though. Barely .500 with him until he took his vacation and they began making major roster changes. Better than Houston w/ out Harden? Yes. But they're orders of magnitude better than Houston right now.

nastynice
02-22-2015, 02:37 PM
Is Klay Thompson really an MVP caliber player to posters on here now? Hahahahah. Good job 'lol, please', seems your trolling has had an effect.

I love Klay, but that is funny ****.

MVP! MVP! MVP! :win::win:

lollol

lolplease done troll the **** outta everybody bro, haha. as of right now, right on jordan's heels as best sg ever...

nastynice
02-22-2015, 02:40 PM
Just saying, Cavs are playing the Warriors/Rockets in the upcoming ten days. If James shuts them both out, I'm bumping him just below Curry/Harden. By below, I mean literally, right there. Curry just has a goddamn stacked roster man.. People are saying Klay is right there with Harden as the best SG but then they don't want to acknowledge that Curry has help? If Klay's the best SG, shouldn't he be competing against Curry for the MVP instead of Harden? Idk, you tell me.

That's a tough one. I don't think past seasons should be accounted for in mvp voting, which is why I think Lebron is pretty far from Curry and Harden. He IS the best player in the league, along with Durant, but mvp imo should strictly be based on current season.

nastynice
02-22-2015, 02:43 PM
Steph will probably win because the Warriors are so stacked. When you have another MVP candidate playing beside you, 2 recent All Stars on your bench, as solid a coaching staff as you'll find in the league and a guy that's in talks to be the MIP and Defensive Player of the Year, then of course he's going to have a team with a better record. If that's all it takes to win the MVP, then Curry hasn't done anything to screw it up, I guess. And it kind of sucks because Curry is legitimately one of the top 6 guys in the league, all things considered (LeBron, Durant, AD, Curry, Harden and Westbrook in some sort of order).

Curry really IS playing some amazing ball. I think the talent level of the warriors is kind of overshadowing just how good Curry is playing on an individual level. About 15 games ago I had Harden at 1, Curry 2, but now I got it reversed. He's just killing it from all aspects, I think people jump on the ridiculous 3pt shooting ability, but in that whole shuffle he's become really underrated ball handler/creator.

lol, please
02-22-2015, 03:25 PM
The numbers being what they may, I can't see GSW without Curry being worse than Houston without Harden, or Cleveland without Bron. I just don't see that at all.
Agreed. Statistically it's true, but I agree completely.

lol, please
02-22-2015, 03:26 PM
He's a fire-shooter, and that quarter was incredible. But it was a quarter. The argument is stronger for Butler than it is for Klay as #2 SG, and realistically Wade is better than both at full strength (not that I won't take Klay or Jimmy's consistent/reliable effort over him any day).

Bogut is the Warriors 2nd most important player - specifically without a backup C - and he has missed more time than Dwight. Following that it's Draymond and his defensive versatility or Klay. But neither hold a candle to Curry tbh, and this team would fall off in a major way from this pace without him. Probably would not be HCA, let alone winning at historic levels.
Funny to hear you say this after you wanted to crucify lacob for letting Monta Ellis go for bogut and threatened to become a kings fan. ;)

lol, please
02-22-2015, 03:28 PM
Curry really IS playing some amazing ball. I think the talent level of the warriors is kind of overshadowing just how good Curry is playing on an individual level. About 15 games ago I had Harden at 1, Curry 2, but now I got it reversed. He's just killing it from all aspects, I think people jump on the ridiculous 3pt shooting ability, but in that whole shuffle he's become really underrated ball handler/creator.
But curry is just a shooter, he's soft, injury prone, and not a true point guard, remember? :rolleyes: ah, the nba forum. Gotta love it.

mightybosstone
02-22-2015, 03:31 PM
As for the other piece, we can talk about the Warriors being "stacked" all we want (which I think they're very solid outside of backup C, though those awards come with the winning), but this is a team that was projected to win 50 games and fight for HCA who are currently holding the #2 SRS in NBA history -- and Curry is the offensive catalyst and absolute clear Alpha of this. His RPM and OBPM are still better than Harden's, AD's, Lebron's and everyone else. What that says is that as great as the Warriors are, the fall off without him on the court is larger than everybody else in the NBA without their star on the court. When you're talking about a team who is winning at a rate and with a differential that they are in this Western Conference, that's pretty telling as to who the rightful MVP is.

I love how you conveniently left out DBPM. Because when you put the two together, Curry and Harden are technically both behind Westbrook. Is Westbrook the MVP now based on that one stat? What about VORP, which says that Harden is significantly better than any other player in the NBA? And Curry leads Harden by the slightest of edges in PER and WS/48, but if you had brought up that stat two weeks ago, Harden would have had the edge.

Bottom line, I could bring up any number of stats to prove one of these guys the better player at any point throughout the season. But Harden has unquestionably been more productive overall and has had the greater role in his team's success than Curry. Take Curry off the Warriors and replace him with a below average starting point guard and that team still wins 50 games. Take Harden off the Rockets and replace him with a below average shooting guard and they'd be lucky to win 30, especially given all the injuries to Dwight.

lol, please
02-22-2015, 03:32 PM
You can't use just one Stat for player comparisons, not even ws and it's the closest to the most comprehensive

GodsSon
02-22-2015, 03:38 PM
Steph Curry, hands down.

How anyone would say otherwise is beyond me.

With that said, if the Pelicans get into the PO, than Davis has to get some serious consideration.

IKnowHoops
02-22-2015, 03:49 PM
Cleveland without Bron is relative. They're a far different roster now than they were to start the season. He's truly not in the MVP discussion for me though. Barely .500 with him until he took his vacation and they began making major roster changes. Better than Houston w/ out Harden? Yes. But they're orders of magnitude better than Houston right now.

Barely .500, they were like 18/11 Thats way over .500

Then lost 8 straight without him to fall one game below .500

Common now Tre, you don't need to exaggerate to make points. Your fine bringing up real stats.

mightybosstone
02-22-2015, 03:49 PM
You can't use just one Stat for player comparisons, not even ws and it's the closest to the most comprehensive

Exactly my point. :shrug:

IKnowHoops
02-22-2015, 03:55 PM
He's a fire-shooter, and that quarter was incredible. But it was a quarter. The argument is stronger for Butler than it is for Klay as #2 SG, and realistically Wade is better than both at full strength (not that I won't take Klay or Jimmy's consistent/reliable effort over him any day).

Bogut is the Warriors 2nd most important player - specifically without a backup C - and he has missed more time than Dwight. Following that it's Draymond and his defensive versatility or Klay. But neither hold a candle to Curry tbh, and this team would fall off in a major way from this pace without him. Probably would not be HCA, let alone winning at historic levels.

I'll take Klay easily over Butler and Wade at this point. No hesitation at all. I'd be willing to bet that 100% of PSD excluding bulls fans feel the exact same way as I do.

Its funny how the up-play down-play of Klay Thompson happens. One day a thread is made asking who is better between him and Harden, the next day Butler has a stronger argument for being better. Then why are Harden vs Klay threads being taken seriously. What a delicate dance depending on the point that is trying to be made.

tredigs
02-22-2015, 04:01 PM
I love how you conveniently left out DBPM. Because when you put the two together, Curry and Harden are technically both behind Westbrook. Is Westbrook the MVP now based on that one stat? What about VORP, which says that Harden is significantly better than any other player in the NBA? And Curry leads Harden by the slightest of edges in PER and WS/48, but if you had brought up that stat two weeks ago, Harden would have had the edge.

Bottom line, I could bring up any number of stats to prove one of these guys the better player at any point throughout the season. But Harden has unquestionably been more productive overall and has had the greater role in his team's success than Curry. Take Curry off the Warriors and replace him with a below average starting point guard and that team still wins 50 games. Take Harden off the Rockets and replace him with a below average shooting guard and they'd be lucky to win 30, especially given all the injuries to Dwight.

I was highlighting his offensive value, there was nothing "convenient" about the omission. And as a whole, we're talking about Curry's individual impact. Replace Curry with a below avg PG and they're still a 50 win team in the West? No, I doubt it. Let's run through the stats gamut though since you think I'm cherry picking:

24/5/8 +2.2 spg on 48/40/90 in 33 mpg

Games Played: 100%
PER: 27.6 (#3)
WS/48: .287 (#1)
SPG: 2.2 (#1)
TS%: .621 (#6)
BPM: 9.61 (#2)
VORP: 5.07 (#2. A cumulative stat btw. per-48 #1)
"Gravity": #1 (tracking stat via SportsVU on how much defensive pressure the player is grabbing. This was a link tho, I'm trying to get a hold of the #'s for everyone)
Net Rtg: #1 (difference in offensive - defensive rating)
RPM: 8.10 (#1)

And crushed the Rockets all 4 times they played, with Curry clearly outshining Harden overall. That's the MVP.


Funny to hear you say this after you wanted to crucify lacob for letting Monta Ellis go for bogut and threatened to become a kings fan. ;)
Lol oh yeah, that was me all right. Hated that trade...

tredigs
02-22-2015, 04:10 PM
I'll take Klay easily over Butler and Wade at this point. No hesitation at all. I'd be willing to bet that 100% of PSD excluding bulls fans feel the exact same way as I do.

Its funny how the up-play down-play of Klay Thompson happens. One day a thread is made asking who is better between him and Harden, the next day Butler has a stronger argument for being better. Then why are Harden vs Klay threads being taken seriously. What a delicate dance depending on the point that is trying to be made.

Are you confusing me with somebody else who is making these threads? What a delicate stance it is for you to differentiate between different humans, apparently.

I'm saying that Butler's case is stronger as #2 SG because it is.

Butler: 21/6/3 on 58% TS, 123 O rating, .213 WS/48, 21.3 PER, 4.6 BPM, 3.3 VORP, higher RPM, and had to carry the Bulls offensive load in the early going while also being their best defender.

Klay: 22/3/3 on 60% TS, 112 O rating, .176 WS/48, 20.9 PER, 2.9 BPM, 2.0 VORP, lower RPM, and has had the benefit of a better offensive and defensive player on the floor with him the vast majority of his minutes.

I'm a big Klay fan, but I'm also not a blind homer. Butler has been better than Thompson. There's no reasonable argument otherwise once you get unstuck from the media jazz.

IKnowHoops
02-22-2015, 04:25 PM
Are you confusing me with somebody else who is making these threads? What a delicate stance it is for you to differentiate between different humans, apparently.

I'm saying that Butler's case is stronger as #2 SG because it is.

Butler: 21/6/3 on 58% TS, 123 O rating, .213 WS/48, 21.3 PER, 4.6 BPM, 3.3 VORP, higher RPM, and had to carry the Bulls offensive load in the early going while also being their best defender.

Klay: 22/3/3 on 60% TS, 112 O rating, .176 WS/48, 20.9 PER, 2.9 BPM, 2.0 VORP, lower RPM, and has had the benefit of a better offensive and defensive player on the floor with him the vast majority of his minutes.

I'm a big Klay fan, but I'm also not a blind homer. Butler has been better than Thompson. There's no reasonable argument otherwise once you get unstuck from the media jazz.

Sorry, wasn't trying to say you made that thread, but just as a general narrative from the collective dubs fans. I guess I am asking this...in that thread of Harden vs Klay, did you come out and say the thread was a joke and Harden was clearly better? Or did you add to its validity?

tredigs
02-22-2015, 04:27 PM
Sorry, wasn't trying to say you made that thread, but just as a general narrative from the collective dubs fans. I guess I am asking this...in that thread of Harden vs Klay, did you come out and say the thread was a joke and Harden was clearly better? Or did you add to its validity?

You're making comments on "Dubs fans as a whole" but didn't read it? If I commented in it, it was to say it's a joke comparison, which it is. Just like your comments assuming your perceived fanbase group-think applies to me.

IKnowHoops
02-22-2015, 04:36 PM
Sorry, wasn't trying to say you made that thread, but just as a general narrative from the collective dubs fans. I guess I am asking this...in that thread of Harden vs Klay, did you come out and say the thread was a joke and Harden was clearly better? Or did you add to its validity?

I found your post in that thread.


^Goose is off the deep end. I'm with everyone saying Harden, and this should be a "next" type thread. Klay's awesome, but I'd argue he's the 3rd or 4th most important player on the Warriors. Talent wise, Harden is the class of the NBA with about 5 other people. If you're "building around" a player, there are not many better choices right now, and Klay definitely is not one of them. If that's what the thread is asking, then there's no wiggle room there. Even as a #2/#3, we know how huge of an impact Harden can have, though at this point he'd be the #1 on 90% of teams.

I'll stfu now.

nastynice
02-22-2015, 07:09 PM
I love how you conveniently left out DBPM. Because when you put the two together, Curry and Harden are technically both behind Westbrook. Is Westbrook the MVP now based on that one stat? What about VORP, which says that Harden is significantly better than any other player in the NBA? And Curry leads Harden by the slightest of edges in PER and WS/48, but if you had brought up that stat two weeks ago, Harden would have had the edge.

Bottom line, I could bring up any number of stats to prove one of these guys the better player at any point throughout the season. But Harden has unquestionably been more productive overall and has had the greater role in his team's success than Curry. Take Curry off the Warriors and replace him with a below average starting point guard and that team still wins 50 games. Take Harden off the Rockets and replace him with a below average shooting guard and they'd be lucky to win 30, especially given all the injuries to Dwight.

:speechless: :speechless:

wylin, lol

nastynice
02-22-2015, 07:11 PM
Sorry, wasn't trying to say you made that thread, but just as a general narrative from the collective dubs fans. I guess I am asking this...in that thread of Harden vs Klay, did you come out and say the thread was a joke and Harden was clearly better? Or did you add to its validity?

mm, numerous dubs fans, including myself, said that the thread makes absolutely no sense.

lol, please
02-22-2015, 07:12 PM
:speechless: :speechless:

wylin, lol
At the risk of it sounding ridiculously homerish, I have to agree with that. Yes, there is a drop off when he is off the floor, but we are deep and there has been chemistry for the last 3 seasons with the same players. a starting 5 of Klay/Holiday/Green/Lee/Bogut is more than capable of winning 50.

KnicksorBust
02-22-2015, 07:18 PM
LeBron

lol, please
02-22-2015, 07:19 PM
LeBron
Not even 4th on the list, be serious now.

nastynice
02-22-2015, 07:23 PM
At the risk of it sounding ridiculously homerish, I have to agree with that. Yes, there is a drop off when he is off the floor, but we are deep and there has been chemistry for the last 3 seasons with the same players. a starting 5 of Klay/Holiday/Green/Lee/Bogut is more than capable of winning 50.

would be SERIOUS disadvantage against any western conference playoff team, that's like what, 25 (?) games right there. Would have to pull a few of those off plus play like 85% ball vs the rest to have a shot at 50, all without Curry. I don't see it.

*don't get me wrong, its nice to hear our team getting such high praise. I'm a dubs fan, not a Curry fan. But that's a pretty tall order right there...

andy2518
02-22-2015, 07:24 PM
Can't believe people actually voted Harden over Curry. Players who average more than 2 FPG (Flops Per Game) should be disqualified from any sort of MVP consideration honors. Just my opinion on the matter. Oh and Curry is the superior player in every way and his team has had much more success. Not to mention Curry has meant a great deal more to his team and that is what this award is all about.

nastynice
02-22-2015, 07:25 PM
Players who average more than 2 FPG (Flops Per Game)

:laugh: :laugh:

andy2518
02-22-2015, 07:27 PM
Not even 4th on the list, be serious now.

Ya, Lebron should not be in serious MVP talks this season, but I could see him being a legit 4th on the list. Of course anyone who gives Lebron a first place vote should lose all credibility in all future talks involving him in anything.

lol, please
02-22-2015, 07:28 PM
[emoji23] [emoji23]
[emoji23] [emoji23] gold

PayDaPiper
02-22-2015, 09:37 PM
Warriors lose to the Pacers, validates Steph as the MVP further.

Clearly not even close to the same team without him.

Allphakenny1
02-22-2015, 09:45 PM
Warriors lose to the Pacers, validates Steph as the MVP further.

Clearly not even close to the same team without him.

What are you talking about? This is a 50 win team without Curry! You cannot question that, it is a straight up FACT. They just ran onto the juggernaut that is the Indiana Pacers, but anyone else they could beat without Curry.

nastynice
02-22-2015, 10:18 PM
Warriors lose to the Pacers, validates Steph as the MVP further.

Clearly not even close to the same team without him.

Honestly, its not even about the pacers loss, its just that when you watch that team play, its clear that Curry is the one who runs/controls that offense. There are definitely a lot of good players on the squad who are very good at what they do, and Klay is definitely expanding his game and imo legitimate all star caliber, but at the end of the day, all the pieces of that puzzle fit together because of Curry. He is the engine of the machine, and its pretty obvious when you watch them play.

Just because he's not as ball dominant as Harden doesn't mean his offense doesn't rely on him as much, matter of fact, maybe that's a knock against Harden, needs to get the ball to his guys earlier in the shot clock, get guys moving around, and let everybody find their rhythm. Curry is great at that, and yes the other part of that equation is that the players themselves are very good and have a rhythm to find, but still doesn't take away from how much he means to the squad.

His shiftiness with the ball is really underrated, it really allows him to open the court up, even tho he doesn't have the same type of speed as say westbrook. And off the ball, forget it, there's always going to be someone on him like glue, no one's gonna take a chance of giving him space and time to set his feet.

tredigs
02-22-2015, 11:06 PM
Fitting that he sits out his first game and everyone gets to see what the offense looks like w/ out him after the last 2 pages of discussion about that. The offense completely fell off and got fewer easy looks than I've seen all year? Shocker.

FlashBolt
02-22-2015, 11:11 PM
Curry sits out and Warriors lose by 6. LeBron sits out and Cavs were getting beat by 12 points on average for eight games. Not to mention Pacers have been on a roll lately.

tredigs
02-22-2015, 11:38 PM
Curry sits out and Warriors lose by 6. LeBron sits out and Cavs were getting beat by 12 points on average for eight games. Not to mention Pacers have been on a roll lately.

Are you actually insinuating Lebron should be MVP Flash? You can't be serious here.

There's a difference between a new team going through early season struggles and coaching turmoil have their leader up and leave the state for a few weeks for them to fend for themselves, and how we see a team playing at an All-Time level look without theirs. Pretty sure that was the toughest stretch of games Cleveland has had this season to date btw. Houston/Atlanta/Dallas/GS? The way they were playing at the time, I highly doubt they win those games with the 'physically, mentally and spiritually exhausted' 'Bron at the helm. I'll give 'em Philly ; ) Pretty sure Kyrie didn't play that one either though.

Basically, this is just a micro look of how a team with an absolutely dominant offense looks without Curry. They rely on him massively, and hopefully people who don't watch the Dubs often can start to realize that despite all the stats/footage that already showcase that fact.

FlashBolt
02-22-2015, 11:45 PM
Are you actually insinuating Lebron should be MVP Flash? You can't be serious here.

There's a difference between a new team going through early season struggles and coaching turmoil have their leader up and leave the state for a few weeks for them to fend for themselves, and how we see a team playing at an All-Time level look without theirs. Pretty sure that was the toughest stretch of games Cleveland has had this season to date btw. Houston/Atlanta/Dallas/GS? The way they were playing at the time, I highly doubt they win those games with the 'physically, mentally and spiritually exhausted' 'Bron at the helm. I'll give 'em Philly ; ) Pretty sure Kyrie didn't play that one either though.

Basically, this is just a micro look of how a team with an absolutely dominant offense looks without Curry. They rely on him massively, and hopefully people who don't watch the Dubs often can start to realize that despite all the stats/footage that already showcase that fact.

No, I didn't imply that. It's more of a counter argument towards the fact that you think Curry SHOULD be MVP because GSW lost a game without him despite being close and with Pacers being on a near six game winning streak (snapped the Cavs winning streak and lost to the Spurs by two points). But if you want to follow that logic, then why can't I say Cavs were 2-8 without LeBron and were blown out by an average of 12 points? Like I said; I have James in the third spot right now behind Harden/Curry. I too think Curry has a slight edge on Harden right now considering Harden's past three games were pretty bad. The thing that will boost LeBron into realistically being MVP is this week when he goes against Curry/Harden. Those would certainly give him some consideration points.

tredigs
02-22-2015, 11:51 PM
No, I didn't imply that. It's more of a counter argument towards the fact that you think Curry SHOULD be MVP because GSW lost a game without him despite being close and with Pacers being on a near six game winning streak (snapped the Cavs winning streak and lost to the Spurs by two points). But if you want to follow that logic, then why can't I say Cavs were 2-8 without LeBron and were blown out by an average of 12 points? Like I said; I have James in the third spot right now behind Harden/Curry. I too think Curry has a slight edge on Harden right now considering Harden's past three games were pretty bad. The thing that will boost LeBron into realistically being MVP is this week when he goes against Curry/Harden. Those would certainly give him some consideration points.

The fact that we lost tonight to the Pacers does nothing to sway me one or another that Curry should be MVP. In fact for me personally, missing the game takes him down a small notch for me. What it does is put on blast for others what I've already been telling you guys about his massive importance to how successful we are (where apparently many are convinced we are a top team either way... which is far from the truth). We go from All Time regular season good to a very good D with a very middling offense. Very likely not HCA, and possibly fighting for a playoff spot all together. Stark difference from top 3 SRS All Time?

IKnowHoops
02-23-2015, 02:31 PM
The fact that we lost tonight to the Pacers does nothing to sway me one or another that Curry should be MVP. In fact for me personally, missing the game takes him down a small notch for me. What it does is put on blast for others what I've already been telling you guys about his massive importance to how successful we are (where apparently many are convinced we are a top team either way... which is far from the truth). We go from All Time regular season good to a very good D with a very middling offense. Very likely not HCA, and possibly fighting for a playoff spot all together. Stark difference from top 3 SRS All Time?

I think we need a larger sample size of games to be sure they are/are not a 50 win team without Steph. Just one game. if they lost 4-5 in a row, then I would think they aren't a 50 win team without Steph.

IKnowHoops
02-23-2015, 02:35 PM
Don't sleep on Westbrook! I feel like he is currently playing the best basketball in the NBA right now. If he does this for the rest of the season and OKC can move up to a 4 seed, he may have an argument if his play is superior.

lol, please
02-23-2015, 04:20 PM
I think we need a larger sample size of games to be sure they are/are not a 50 win team without Steph. Just one game. if they lost 4-5 in a row, then I would think they aren't a 50 win team without Steph.
Basically this. Klay, Barnes, and Lee are capable of dropping 30+ on anyone.

jerellh528
02-23-2015, 04:34 PM
Basically this. Klay, Barnes, and Lee are capable of dropping 30+ on anyone.

Meh, I dunno. Klay is, but neither Barnes nor lee have scored 30 or more this season, not even once.

lol, please
02-23-2015, 04:39 PM
Meh, I dunno. Klay is, but neither Barnes nor lee have scored 30 or more this season, not even once.
Barnes because of ball movement and time on the floor, and Lee because he hasn't been starting and as a result has to deal with limited minutes. Both are perfectly capable of getting it done.

jerellh528
02-23-2015, 04:53 PM
Barnes because of ball movement and time on the floor, and Lee because he hasn't been starting and as a result has to deal with limited minutes. Both are perfectly capable of getting it done.

Maybe, I think thier career highs are around 30, like 32 for Barnes and just over that for lee, I'm not sure. Any NBA player is CAPABLE of hitting 30+ on any given night but I wouldn't exactly mention those two like they do it on a normal basis.

Jets012
02-23-2015, 05:01 PM
Sooo why is Curry getting the overwhelmingly majority of the votes, while Westbrook doesn't even get a mention?

Goose17
02-23-2015, 05:27 PM
Sooo why is Curry getting the overwhelmingly majority of the votes, while Westbrook doesn't even get a mention?

When was the last time an 8th seed (or non playoff team as that's still a possibility) had an MVP?

What has Westbrook done to deserve MVP over Harden or Steph?

Answer those first then we can talk.

sep11ie
02-23-2015, 05:38 PM
As much of a Rockets/Harden fan that I am, I don't see how Curry is not the MVP right now.

Jets012
02-23-2015, 06:15 PM
When was the last time an 8th seed (or non playoff team as that's still a possibility) had an MVP?

What has Westbrook done to deserve MVP over Harden or Steph?

Answer those first then we can talk.

Well you're naive to think that OKC is going to stay as the 8th seed for much longer with the way Westbrook has played and now that the team is finally getting healthy.

Westbrook also hasn't had the luxury to be playing on the deepest and arguably most talented team in the league (GS) and a team that has been healthy all year.

Listen I'm just stirring the pot a bit. I love Steph and I wouldn't be upset at all if he wins MVP. He's deserved it, I just don't like how he's getting the majority of the vote while a guy in Westbrook (who has been arguably just as good and you can make an argument that he's been better), gets zero vote.

But again, I understand the argument for Curry completely. It's a great argument. I don't have a problem with Curry being #1 right now in this poll or on this ranking. My problem is with the emission of Westy who should be in the discussion as well. His advanced stats as well as production has warranted MVP talk for him.

Goose17
02-23-2015, 07:51 PM
1. I thought Durant just had more surgery? How are they healthy.

2. The Dubs have hd their fair share of injury issues.

3. Where do you think OKC are finishing? I'm not aware of there ever being an MVP for a team that finished lower than the 3rd seed.

4. Westbrook doesn't have the luxury of playing with a deep team. Curry doesn't have the luxury of playing with the second best player in the world. Goes both ways.

5. Westbrook had no business being on this poll when I made it. OKC weren't even a playoff team.

6. There is an "others" option for a reason.

7. I have no problem with the discussion of Westbrook for MVP. I just don't see why he should get it over Curry or Harden who have played better all year and led their teams to better records.

Tony_Starks
02-23-2015, 08:59 PM
Westbrook

Saddletramp
02-24-2015, 05:28 AM
For the record, me alluding to Klay being a MVP candidate has nothing to do with lol; I've seen a few of the nba talking heads casually mention him as a candidate. Not as much lately, though.

And yeah, I'd like to see how the Warriors are for a half dozen games or so without Curry to see how much of a fall off they are. The Pacers have really been playing well lately, it was at home and it was one game w/o Curry. A lot of teams don't adjust well in their first game without their top star.

lol, please
02-24-2015, 02:17 PM
It's no excuse for the warriors, klay, lee, green, barnes, and rush were all on the team when curry went down for glass ankle syndrome the last time.