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View Full Version : Magic have fired Jacque Vaughn



Deception
02-05-2015, 02:07 PM
According to CBS... Wonder who they'll pursue, Karl?

MrfadeawayJB
02-05-2015, 02:13 PM
No surprise imo

ugottabjoshinme
02-05-2015, 02:17 PM
I saw Scott Skiles is a favorite for the job.

Tony_Starks
02-05-2015, 02:27 PM
Glad they finally put him out his misery. I like what Orlando is doing. They're going about the business of getting and grooming young talent but still actually care about building a winning culture and refuse to tank.

Good for them!

RLundi
02-05-2015, 03:34 PM
Good, about time. Vaughn was awful. I hope we pursue George Karl or Mike Malone but NOT Scott Skiles, unless he's an assistant who's job is to focus on defense.

But to be honest, idk why any decent coach would want to come to this situation. We have decent players but a terrible culture. It's gonna take a lot to turn this team around.

JasonJohnHorn
02-05-2015, 07:07 PM
I imagine Orlando's press release will read something like this:
"We respect Vaughn's efforts, but our franchise was committed to winning as few games as possible this season, and it has become clear that in managing a higher winning percentage that storied franchises like the Lakers, the Knicks, and the 76ers, Vaughn does not have a clear understanding of the level of futility we were aiming for this season. In order to ensure we lose as many games for the remainder of the season, we fill that it is important to promote an unqualified assistant coach for the in term in hopes that we can secure the top pick and draw in a high caliber coach next season when we hope that another early pick and potentially a free-agent signing will help to contribute to a team that might compete for a playoff spot in a conference where teams well under .500 can actually make the playoffs. We hope our fans understand."

flea
02-05-2015, 07:12 PM
I don't think Vaughn is as bad as he got scapegoated, but he's not good. For a team like Magic you only really need to identify talent and rotation effectiveness, and be a good mentor to younger players. He seemed solid enough to me at that, even if it took longer than I'd have liked to get Payton starter's minutes. A team as young as they are could overachieve and make a 7 or 8 seed, but it doesn't really matter. They should be winning more than they have of late, though, and that's probably why this came down now.

SeoulBeatz
02-05-2015, 07:53 PM
Glad they finally put him out his misery. I like what Orlando is doing. They're going about the business of getting and grooming young talent but still actually care about building a winning culture and refuse to tank.

Good for them!

This argument would hold a lot more weight if they weren't on a 10 game losing streak.

Anyways, good move by the magic. They have the talent to be a 6th to 8th seed in the East this year and have been way too inconsistent. Find a coach that will command the players respect and you should see them in the playoffs next year.

5ass
02-05-2015, 08:04 PM
Vaughn had his chances, never proved he was a good coach. This guy promoted Marble from d-league to starter then demoted him back to d-league in like one week. I can sit here and go on and on about him not instilling an identity and ***** about his timeouts and rotations, but whatever, on to the next. He's still so young maybe in a few years he'll get another shot somewhere else.
Ron Adams please.

L8kers4life
02-05-2015, 09:03 PM
I imagine Orlando's press release will read something like this:
"We respect Vaughn's efforts, but our franchise was committed to winning as few games as possible this season, and it has become clear that in managing a higher winning percentage that storied franchises like the Lakers, the Knicks, and the 76ers, Vaughn does not have a clear understanding of the level of futility we were aiming for this season. In order to ensure we lose as many games for the remainder of the season, we fill that it is important to promote an unqualified assistant coach for the in term in hopes that we can secure the top pick and draw in a high caliber coach next season when we hope that another early pick and potentially a free-agent signing will help to contribute to a team that might compete for a playoff spot in a conference where teams well under .500 can actually make the playoffs. We hope our fans understand."

If they wanted to secure that spot, that would have kept Vaughn. The team has lost 10 games in a row and counting. Now that they have fired their coach, I will bet with 100% certainty that the Magic beat the Lakers tomorrow. If your trying to lose, you don't fire the coach on a 10 game losing streak with that much talent.

Chrisclover
02-05-2015, 10:01 PM
I imagine Orlando's press release will read something like this:
"We respect Vaughn's efforts, but our franchise was committed to winning as few games as possible this season, and it has become clear that in managing a higher winning percentage that storied franchises like the Lakers, the Knicks, and the 76ers, Vaughn does not have a clear understanding of the level of futility we were aiming for this season. In order to ensure we lose as many games for the remainder of the season, we fill that it is important to promote an unqualified assistant coach for the in term in hopes that we can secure the top pick and draw in a high caliber coach next season when we hope that another early pick and potentially a free-agent signing will help to contribute to a team that might compete for a playoff spot in a conference where teams well under .500 can actually make the playoffs. We hope our fans understand."
Lol. And then comes the unprecedented fine for blatantly tanking.

JasonJohnHorn
02-05-2015, 10:20 PM
If they wanted to secure that spot, that would have kept Vaughn. The team has lost 10 games in a row and counting. Now that they have fired their coach, I will bet with 100% certainty that the Magic beat the Lakers tomorrow. If your trying to lose, you don't fire the coach on a 10 game losing streak with that much talent.

You are likely right. I made my comment in half in jest.

That said, they are NOT making the playoffs this year. Phil Jackson, Jerry Sloan, Pa Riley and Greg Popovich wouldn't get this roster into the playoffs. That is out of the question. Getting a better coach to improve their record is only going to get the a lower pick, so firing a coach mid-season doesn't make sense in a situation like this. Now, you won't catch me making a push to get Vaughn a job as the head coach of any team that I like, but that said, I think their record is more a reflection of their roster and not their coaching (which isn't to say that the coaching isn't a problem).


If the concern is winning more games, it seems like a moot point to me. This roster isn't good enough to make the playoffs.

If the problem is concern about player development, I'm not sure that I see an issue there. Look at Nikola Vucevic. The dude when from a bench warmer on a lottery team to an AS calibre player in two years. He's nearly posting a 20/10 season, rebounding well, scoring efficiently (his FG% has gone up with his shots going up). And he's reduced is fouls per36.

The same could be said of Tobias Harris, who has improved as a long ranger shooter and has managed to increase his productivity with increased minutes. And Victor Oladipa has improved immensely over his rookie season.

Even Evan Fournier has seen improvement in his game.

So the question is, if Vaughn has helped these players to improve, but outing going players (Jameer Nelson, Arron Affalo, Glen Davis) have diluted the roster thereby negating the improvement the other players have made, what else is Vaughn supposed to do outside of developing the young talent? I mean, they lost their leading scorer and leading play maker from last season. How is he supposed to make up for that with a 20 year-old point guard who can't shoot?

For where this team is right now talent wise, Vaughn seemed to be doing about as well as can be expected. What else is he supposed to do? Are people really going to complain that a team that could have won 23 games only won 21?

L8kers4life
02-05-2015, 10:46 PM
You are likely right. I made my comment in half in jest.

That said, they are NOT making the playoffs this year. Phil Jackson, Jerry Sloan, Pa Riley and Greg Popovich wouldn't get this roster into the playoffs. That is out of the question. Getting a better coach to improve their record is only going to get the a lower pick, so firing a coach mid-season doesn't make sense in a situation like this. Now, you won't catch me making a push to get Vaughn a job as the head coach of any team that I like, but that said, I think their record is more a reflection of their roster and not their coaching (which isn't to say that the coaching isn't a problem).


If the concern is winning more games, it seems like a moot point to me. This roster isn't good enough to make the playoffs.

If the problem is concern about player development, I'm not sure that I see an issue there. Look at Nikola Vucevic. The dude when from a bench warmer on a lottery team to an AS calibre player in two years. He's nearly posting a 20/10 season, rebounding well, scoring efficiently (his FG% has gone up with his shots going up). And he's reduced is fouls per36.

The same could be said of Tobias Harris, who has improved as a long ranger shooter and has managed to increase his productivity with increased minutes. And Victor Oladipa has improved immensely over his rookie season.

Even Evan Fournier has seen improvement in his game.

So the question is, if Vaughn has helped these players to improve, but outing going players (Jameer Nelson, Arron Affalo, Glen Davis) have diluted the roster thereby negating the improvement the other players have made, what else is Vaughn supposed to do outside of developing the young talent? I mean, they lost their leading scorer and leading play maker from last season. How is he supposed to make up for that with a 20 year-old point guard who can't shoot?

For where this team is right now talent wise, Vaughn seemed to be doing about as well as can be expected. What else is he supposed to do? Are people really going to complain that a team that could have won 23 games only won 21?


Excellent points, in my honest opinion, I feel like Vaughn was really accelerating the growth process for these young guys. I think many teams are stupid for letting go of a coach before he can truly make his imprint on a team. And as you said, it's not like this team was going to make the playoffs anyway. why not let Vaughn finish out the season and continue to lose the way they have been. At least in that scenario you end up with a really good pick. But I guess it's a moot point, either way this team is not making the playoffs. But I must say, a young core of Oladipo, Gordon, Payton, Vucevic, and Harris is as good as you can ask for in terms of young talent.

macc
02-05-2015, 11:18 PM
Jasonjohnjorn. The main reason he got fired is because the Magic have progressively got worse this year. Not better. Even in a rebuilding situation you want to see improvement. I've watched every Magic games but two. Most of Vaughn lineups didn't make sense and this far into the season they still didn't have an identity, a regular rotation or really anything that looked like consistency. These last few weeks Orlando has been getting beat up. Down by 10-15 pts early on then fighting to get back into it the rest of the game. It was embarrassing. At this point of the season a team should be hitting some sort of stride. When you got guys on other teams lighting you up and you don't make any change then you're not doing your job as coach. It's not all him obviously, but a team shouldn't be getting worse as the season goes on. JV is to much a players coach and doesn't hold the players accountable like SVG would. He really started to lose the team.

Tony_Starks
02-06-2015, 12:43 AM
Glad they finally put him out his misery. I like what Orlando is doing. They're going about the business of getting and grooming young talent but still actually care about building a winning culture and refuse to tank.

Good for them!

This argument would hold a lot more weight if they weren't on a 10 game losing streak.

Anyways, good move by the magic. They have the talent to be a 6th to 8th seed in the East this year and have been way too inconsistent. Find a coach that will command the players respect and you should see them in the playoffs next year.

Maybe the 10 game losing streak is the reason they fired the coach? Thus indicating that they actually care about winning games as opposed to tanking for another pick?

There are other teams that if they were on a 10 game losing streak the coach would probably get a contract extension......

JasonJohnHorn
02-06-2015, 12:45 AM
Jasonjohnjorn. The main reason he got fired is because the Magic have progressively got worse this year. Not better. Even in a rebuilding situation you want to see improvement. I've watched every Magic games but two. Most of Vaughn lineups didn't make sense and this far into the season they still didn't have an identity, a regular rotation or really anything that looked like consistency. These last few weeks Orlando has been getting beat up. Down by 10-15 pts early on then fighting to get back into it the rest of the game. It was embarrassing. At this point of the season a team should be hitting some sort of stride. When you got guys on other teams lighting you up and you don't make any change then you're not doing your job as coach. It's not all him obviously, but a team shouldn't be getting worse as the season goes on. JV is to much a players coach and doesn't hold the players accountable like SVG would. He really started to lose the team.

I will defer to you on this given that you've clearly seen more games than me. In all honestly, I've only seen half a game from the Magic this season. I only get to watch limited games, though I follow stat religiously (which you obviously cannot rely on entirely). Looking at the statistical progress of the young core players, though, he seems to be doing something right.


As for getting worse... as I said, I will defer to you, but I find that a great many teams 'get worse' as the season goes along. The only teams that usually get better are the ones that have players come back from injury, or teams that make a coaching change (and player development is far more important for the Magic than getting more wins at this point, though the two are not mutually exclusive obviously). Other than that, if you are a bad team and already gotten a few wins early in the season, or had some close games, the teams that come back to you have already figured out how you play and what your weaknesses are. You will have a much harder time beating, beating the Bucks, Hornets, Pistons, Hawks, Kings and Suns 40 games into the season when they've already played you, than you will when you play them in the first 20 games and they have no experience against you. Just like a seven-game series, teams learn how you play, adapt, and exploit your weaknesses. For a bad team, that leads to a sweep. For two good teams, that leads to a 7-game series. I think we know which the Magic are. The only times bad teams do better in the second half of the season, is usually in the last couple of weeks of the seasons when playoff positions is already set and guys are getting rested. The 76ers, for instance, won 4 of their last 10 games last season, after going 15-57 the rest of the season. It happens.

Like I said, I won't be hoping Vaughn comes to any of the teams I follow.. but as an outsider looking in, this move seems pointless at best, unless they have a good coach lined up that they are worried might get a job before the end of the season (and if it is Skies coming in, that is not something they needed to worry about), but even then I don't see many coaches wanting to tact on a half a season's worth of loses to their career coaching record. I think the Magic will have better leverage when it comes to recruiting a quality coach after the new cap gets set and they have a lottery pick in tow that the new coach get to help pick. Right now, all they have to offer is about 25 loses to add on to a coaching record, and a lottery pick that might be as low as 7 or 8.