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View Full Version : Draymond Green or Serge Ibaka?



Clippersfan86
01-22-2015, 10:47 AM
DrayGAWD vs Nutpuncha. Who do you got? I think DrayGAWD has surpassed him thoroughly.

goingfor28
01-22-2015, 10:49 AM
Draymond without a doubt. BUT if my team is full of offensive talent and I strictly need a defender, then I'd take Ibaka.

J_M_B
01-22-2015, 10:56 AM
Dray no question

nycericanguy
01-22-2015, 10:59 AM
Serge... PSD has gone crazy overrating players just based on team records.

Goose17
01-22-2015, 11:25 AM
I think Ibaka still edges it but this is a tough comparison .Draymond is a forward, SF/PF. Ibaka is a big man PF/C.

Draymond is an undersized 4 that flourishes in the current system. I'm confident he would be an elite defender and a well rounded offensive player on any team but I think the way the Warriors play benefits him a lot.

I guess it depends in how the rest of the team is built and their style of play.

I think both are the best fit for their respective teams. I don't think switching places would work or whatever.

D-Leethal
01-22-2015, 11:34 AM
Apples and oranges. You can't determine who you would take until you know who else you got. Why take Serge if you already have a stud rim protector? Why take Draymond if you have a guy like Kawhi Leonard?

I will say, I love Draymond's game.

InRoseWeTrust
01-22-2015, 11:39 AM
Ibaka, without hesitation.

Procision
01-22-2015, 11:44 AM
Ibaka and its really not that close.

tredigs
01-22-2015, 11:54 AM
I think I'd rather have Dray if my team has an elite big as a rim protector (Mavs/Rox/GSW/LAC/CHI, etc), but Ibaka's a true rim protector who can also hit the 3 ball at a high rate now. He's gotta get a better balance of the inside out game (just watching them this year it feels like he's getting stuck out there offensively sometimes, and that's not ideal), but that's a major asset to have from a rim protector.

Like Goose mentioned, Dray's a 3/4 who has more maneuverability defensively to guard pretty much anyone on the court (last night we saw him on Harden and Howard on b2b possessions for example), and he's a much better playmaker then Ibaka, but can't give you his rim protection.

If there's a mock draft in a vacuum, I bet Ibaka goes late first round, and Dray early 2nd.

lamzoka
01-22-2015, 12:08 PM
I felt in love with Green's game when he was in college.

There was this game they played on a navy boat outdoor against North Carolina back in 2011, I think. Obama was there too. That's when I said this dark skin kid is gonna be a stud in the NBA.

With all that being said, I'll take Ibaka any day of the week, regardless of who is on my roster.

flea
01-22-2015, 12:25 PM
I felt in love with Green's game when he was in college.

There was this game they played on a navy boat outdoor against North Carolina back in 2011, I think. Obama was there too. That's when I said this dark skin kid is gonna be a stud in the NBA.

With all that being said, I'll take Ibaka any day of the week, regardless of who is on my roster.

Basically this, although I think it's a much closer comparison than some have said. Draymond was my favorite college player in his senior season. I'm very glad he's turned himself into such an effective NBA player. If he continues to improve I could see myself taking him over Ibaka in his prime. But as of now, it's hard to beat good rim protectors. That's just the way of the modern NBA. I will say that I believe Draymond to be the higher IQ player currently.

Gene2420
01-22-2015, 12:45 PM
Man, Green can stroke it from anywhere, athletic, pass, and hold his own at the 4 spot. He can almost do it all at an above average level.

I'd take Ibaka.

Trwood12
01-22-2015, 03:42 PM
I've been watching green a lot this year and I love his game.

FlashBolt
01-22-2015, 03:50 PM
I don't think this is a proper comparison. Two completely different players in terms of impact. I'd take Ibaka if I wanted rim protection and lack a frontcourt. I'll take Green if my frontcourt is strong and healthy.

YAALREADYKNO
01-22-2015, 03:57 PM
ibaka is a bit overrated but I would still take him over draymond

ManningToTyree
01-22-2015, 04:39 PM
They really aren't comparable talents but if in starting from scratch gimme Ibaka

JV35
01-22-2015, 04:42 PM
Draymond. Head and shoulders above Ibaka.

lol, please
01-22-2015, 04:56 PM
Draymond without a doubt. BUT if my team is full of offensive talent and I strictly need a defender, then I'd take Ibaka.

Which describes the Warriors. I'll take Ibaka.

JEDean89
01-22-2015, 05:46 PM
ibaka all day, he can stretch the floor and protect the rim at an elite level, he is bigger and can guard the bigger PF's or C's. Imagine GSW with him playing the 5, barnes at the 4, iggy at the 3, and thompson and curry. that would be some scary spacing and you would still need to leave a guy in the paint because steph and klay are so good at penetrating.

Chronz
01-23-2015, 03:36 AM
This is a really hard comparison

Clippersfan86
01-23-2015, 03:59 AM
This is a really hard comparison

Scottie Pippen or Ben Wallace defensively? Kind of what this reminds me of. Both cream of the crop defenders but very different in HOW they do it. Elite rim protector, or more versatile defender who can guard any position. I guess like Trey said it depends on how your team is already constructed.

valade16
01-23-2015, 09:58 AM
Draymond Green went from just another player to the best player on the planet pretty quickly. I wonder how hard his inevitable fall will be in the eyes of people.

Ibaka is having a very down year for him so maybe this year it's comparable in terms of play. However Ibaka still allows a lower FG% at the rim (by 5%), is better on offense, and has a higher BLK%.

Goose17
01-23-2015, 11:42 AM
Draymond Green went from just another player to the best player on the planet pretty quickly. I wonder how hard his inevitable fall will be in the eyes of people.

Ibaka is having a very down year for him so maybe this year it's comparable in terms of play. However Ibaka still allows a lower FG% at the rim (by 5%), is better on offense, and has a higher BLK%.

Best player on the planet? He's my favourite player on the planet and has been since his rookie year but even I wouldn't go as far as to call him the best. I don't know anyone that would.

valade16
01-23-2015, 11:51 AM
Best player on the planet? He's my favourite player on the planet and has been since his rookie year but even I wouldn't go as far as to call him the best. I don't know anyone that would.

Hyperbole. He has probably become slightly overrated at this point. I'm curious to see where people rank him after this Draymond Green infatuation period wears off.

For reference, in the Top 5's thread, there were several people that had Ibaka in their Top 5 PF list. If that is the case, are you (or anyone else here) saying Draymond Green is a Top 5 PF?

D-Leethal
01-23-2015, 11:56 AM
Draymond is more of a glue guy, Serge is more of a cornerstone. Starting from scratch you take Serge, getting you over the hump you take Green.

lincecum=future
01-23-2015, 12:02 PM
Draymond Green is my favorite player in the NBA but I'd still take Ibaka. However if Draymond continues to improve his stroke from 3 I'll take him.

Rain City
01-23-2015, 12:31 PM
DrayGAWD vs Nutpuncha. Who do you got? I think DrayGAWD has surpassed him thoroughly.

agreed.

Redrum187
01-23-2015, 01:06 PM
1.) Draymond is a great 2-way player.
2.) The Warriors are stacked. His output gets magnified both offensively and defensively from it.
3.) Insert Draymond on just about any other team and I don't believe he is outputting numbers like he currently is.
4.) Ibaka is a stretch 4/5... That is a rare talent/skillset.

GoferKing_
01-23-2015, 01:55 PM
I love those 1 season wonders like Draymond, then they get paid and get fat and lazy. I would take Ibaka, who is more consistent over the years.

MrBistre
01-23-2015, 02:23 PM
I love those 1 season wonders like Draymond, then they get paid and get fat and lazy. I would take Ibaka, who is more consistent over the years.

The fact that you would make this statement reveals that you have no clue what Draymond brings to a team. What makes him what he is is the fact that he is one of the fiercest competitors in the league.

In terms of answering the op question... like most people are saying it's an apples to oranges comparison. The W's switch on defense A LOT, so having Green be able to guard 4 positions makes him invaluable. If your D is predicated on funneling penetrators to a shot blocker you take Ibaka. If your offense is based on all 5 players in constant motion you take the more mobile and versatile Green. If you run a more drive and kick style you probably take Ibaka.

PurpleLynch
01-23-2015, 02:30 PM
I think Ibaka right now. But I love Green,he's just pure hustle as its finest.

tredigs
01-23-2015, 03:37 PM
Hyperbole. He has probably become slightly overrated at this point. I'm curious to see where people rank him after this Draymond Green infatuation period wears off.

For reference, in the Top 5's thread, there were several people that had Ibaka in their Top 5 PF list. If that is the case, are you (or anyone else here) saying Draymond Green is a Top 5 PF?

I think many people did (depending on whether they were ranking him as SF or PF), including me. It would seem very odd to think it is out of bounds to rate the arguable 1st Half DPOY who is more than serviceable offensively as a top 10 forward for the year.

Offensive minded fans or box-score watchers won't be a fan of Dray, but if you watch the games or delve deeper into the #'s, he clearly brings a massive impact. Top 10 overall in VORP, #1 in the NBA in DRPM, DBox +/- and defensive rating while guarding 4-5 positions on any given night and while having the ability to hit the 3 ball, and both rebound/pass at a solid level? Just an insanely hard skill set to bring and it makes him one of the most unique/solid players in the NBA right now. I doubt a player in his mold will ever be a "star", but this guy is a player who will be massive in helping keep his teams elite for most of the next decade. One of the craziest motors I've seen. If people think it's simply a product of being in GS, they'll be in for a shock if he ever leaves. I have zero doubt he's going to bring hell wherever he goes for the foreseeable future.

No problem with people taking Ibaka over him though. Rim protection is paramount and he brings it in droves along with his stretch shooting ability. If I don't have a center that can protect a hoop, then my first priority is a guy like Ibaka.

cmellofan15
01-23-2015, 03:45 PM
if there were a player who could be a hybrid of the two I'd choose him.

but **** Draymond, I'm still upset about the way the Warriors did us in the 2013 Playoffs..

valade16
01-23-2015, 04:14 PM
I think many people did (depending on whether they were ranking him as SF or PF), including me. It would seem very odd to think it is out of bounds to rate the arguable 1st Half DPOY who is more than serviceable offensively as a top 10 forward for the year.

Offensive minded fans or box-score watchers won't be a fan of Dray, but if you watch the games or delve deeper into the #'s, he clearly brings a massive impact. Top 10 overall in VORP, #1 in the NBA in DRPM, DBox +/- and defensive rating while guarding 4-5 positions on any given night and while having the ability to hit the 3 ball, and both rebound/pass at a solid level? Just an insanely hard skill set to bring and it makes him one of the most unique/solid players in the NBA right now. I doubt a player in his mold will ever be a "star", but this guy is a player who will be massive in helping keep his teams elite for most of the next decade. One of the craziest motors I've seen. If people think it's simply a product of being in GS, they'll be in for a shock if he ever leaves. I have zero doubt he's going to bring hell wherever he goes for the foreseeable future.

No problem with people taking Ibaka over him though. Rim protection is paramount and he brings it in droves along with his stretch shooting ability. If I don't have a center that can protect a hoop, then my first priority is a guy like Ibaka.

While he has been posting some great statistics, some of those must be taken with a grain of salt. VORP definitely benefits role players somewhat of a boost. Consider Korver is 12th in VORP, DeAndre Jordan is 14th, Danny Green is 16th and Wesley Matthews is 18th.

We must also ask ourselves, how many players had one breakout amazing season, got vastly overrated, and had subsequent seasons which weren't quite as good as the initial breakout season? Lots.

I think Draymond Green is a great player. He is indeed one of those Glue players who helps make Championship teams. But then again, so is Ibaka. All I'm saying is let's see where he evens out before we declare him the second coming.

tredigs
01-23-2015, 04:30 PM
While he has been posting some great statistics, some of those must be taken with a grain of salt. VORP definitely benefits role players somewhat of a boost. Consider Korver is 12th in VORP, DeAndre Jordan is 14th, Danny Green is 16th and Wesley Matthews is 18th.

We must also ask ourselves, how many players had one breakout amazing season, got vastly overrated, and had subsequent seasons which weren't quite as good as the initial breakout season? Lots.

I think Draymond Green is a great player. He is indeed one of those Glue players who helps make Championship teams. But then again, so is Ibaka. All I'm saying is let's see where he evens out before we declare him the second coming.
It will in fact rate extremely influential role players at a high level (you're also leaving out all the recognized top players in the NBA who rank in the top 15). And why not? Do those players not deliver massive value over their replacement? It's not a stat without faults, and neither is D Box +/-, D Rating, D RPM, etc. But when they all come to the same conclusion, it might be time to start picking up those grains of salt.

I've seen this absurd work ethic and growth from Dray starting at Michigan St, so it's not that alarming to me to see where he's at, but from the outside looking in I suppose I can see how it seems strange. That said, you're the only person making hyperbolic statements about him here. Something you're not exactly foreign to unfortunately.

D-Leethal
01-23-2015, 05:32 PM
Draymond just seems to play winning basketball - he did at Michigan State and he is now. Similar to the Battier effect. He has a knack for making the right play and has elite intangibles along with a very unique skillset.

In short, for once in my life I am agreeing with everything tredigs just said.

flea
01-23-2015, 06:29 PM
It will in fact rate extremely influential role players at a high level (you're also leaving out all the recognized top players in the NBA who rank in the top 15). And why not? Do those players not deliver massive value over their replacement? It's not a stat without faults, and neither is D Box +/-, D Rating, D RPM, etc. But when they all come to the same conclusion, it might be time to start picking up those grains of salt.

I've seen this absurd work ethic and growth from Dray starting at Michigan St, so it's not that alarming to me to see where he's at, but from the outside looking in I suppose I can see how it seems strange. That said, you're the only person making hyperbolic statements about him here. Something you're not exactly foreign to unfortunately.

Don't really understand this "role player" stuff. Draymond Green is not a role player. At least, not anymore than Shawn Marion, Shane Battier, Anthony Mason, Ben Wallace, or Rip Hamilton were. I mean are the best 3 and D guys considered role players by some people, like Danny Green for instance? Because I guarantee every team in the league would rather have Danny Green than someone like Brandon Jennings or Jared Sullinger.

To me, a role player is a guy who is only good at one or perhaps two things on the court (Steve Kerr, Eddie House, etc.). Then there is the more rare role player, someone who is pretty solid at almost everything but not outstanding at any one thing (think Corey Brewer). Starters on good teams, to me, can almost never be role players. Even guys like Manu Ginobili, Robert Horry, etc. that spent a lot of time coming off the bench weren't role players because they are better and more important than many starters.

Raps18-19 Champ
01-23-2015, 06:35 PM
Depends on my team.

Sactown
01-23-2015, 06:59 PM
Going with, Certainly I'll Blockyah , there's a premium for rim protectors in this league, so he holds more value.

tredigs
01-23-2015, 07:58 PM
Don't really understand this "role player" stuff. Draymond Green is not a role player. At least, not anymore than Shawn Marion, Shane Battier, Anthony Mason, Ben Wallace, or Rip Hamilton were. I mean are the best 3 and D guys considered role players by some people, like Danny Green for instance? Because I guarantee every team in the league would rather have Danny Green than someone like Brandon Jennings or Jared Sullinger.

To me, a role player is a guy who is only good at one or perhaps two things on the court (Steve Kerr, Eddie House, etc.). Then there is the more rare role player, someone who is pretty solid at almost everything but not outstanding at any one thing (think Corey Brewer). Starters on good teams, to me, can almost never be role players. Even guys like Manu Ginobili, Robert Horry, etc. that spent a lot of time coming off the bench weren't role players because they are better and more important than many starters.

I took it in that instance to mean guys who are not primary scorers. Generally if you aren't a 15 shot a night type guy, people will label them a role player regardless of their true impact in other facets of the game. Just how ESPN and the like have people thinking.

valade16
01-23-2015, 08:30 PM
J
It will in fact rate extremely influential role players at a high level (you're also leaving out all the recognized top players in the NBA who rank in the top 15). And why not? Do those players not deliver massive value over their replacement? It's not a stat without faults, and neither is D Box +/-, D Rating, D RPM, etc. But when they all come to the same conclusion, it might be time to start picking up those grains of salt.

I've seen this absurd work ethic and growth from Dray starting at Michigan St, so it's not that alarming to me to see where he's at, but from the outside looking in I suppose I can see how it seems strange. That said, you're the only person making hyperbolic statements about him here. Something you're not exactly foreign to unfortunately.

I'm the only person? So when people say he's already the DPOY, a Top 5 PF or clearly better than Ibaka those aren't the least bit hyperbolic?

I can always count on Tredigs to give solid Basketball discussion and then ruin its effect by acting conceited. Of course I'm not foreign to hyperbolic statements, I was the one who just said I did! At least I can admit my faults, although one shouldn't expect someone so conceited to admit to their flaws, so I won't ask you to...

valade16
01-23-2015, 08:36 PM
Draymond. Head and shoulders above Ibaka.

Not hyperbole at all, right Tredigs?

PatsSoxKnicks
01-24-2015, 06:52 AM
J

I'm the only person? So when people say he's already the DPOY, a Top 5 PF or clearly better than Ibaka those aren't the least bit hyperbolic?

I can always count on Tredigs to give solid Basketball discussion and then ruin its effect by acting conceited. Of course I'm not foreign to hyperbolic statements, I was the one who just said I did! At least I can admit my faults, although one shouldn't expect someone so conceited to admit to their flaws, so I won't ask you to...

Draymond's excellent across the board on almost all the defensive scouting metrics too. So the fact that all encompassing stats like RPM AND scouting metrics agree that he's that great basically should tell you something. He's a legit candidate for DPOY. Although, having so many great defenders on the Warriors could hurt his chances but regardless, he's been excellent.

tredigs
01-24-2015, 07:09 AM
J

I'm the only person? So when people say he's already the DPOY, a Top 5 PF or clearly better than Ibaka those aren't the least bit hyperbolic?

I can always count on Tredigs to give solid Basketball discussion and then ruin its effect by acting conceited. Of course I'm not foreign to hyperbolic statements, I was the one who just said I did! At least I can admit my faults, although one shouldn't expect someone so conceited to admit to their flaws, so I won't ask you to...

We need to start over, because frankly I've enjoyed your take on a number of subjects and I think you bring a lot of value to this forum when you're engaged. I'm not even going to discuss this subject with you or any other for a while. Please, do your thing. You're a smart guy with insight I enjoy more often than not and that's good enough for me. Moving on --

Chrisclover
01-24-2015, 10:59 AM
I felt in love with Green's game when he was in college.

There was this game they played on a navy boat outdoor against North Carolina back in 2011, I think. Obama was there too. That's when I said this dark skin kid is gonna be a stud in the NBA.

With all that being said, I'll take Ibaka any day of the week, regardless of who is on my roster.
Ibaka is an established all-star caliber player. Green is an up-and-coming talent. They're of different types. Ibaka is experienced and pretty much set whereas Green still has rooms to flourish.

BKLYNpigeon
01-24-2015, 11:10 AM
I love Draymond, but Ibaka all day.

Scott Brooks needs to be Fired. He's holding OKC back from their full potential. They should be so much better.

valade16
01-25-2015, 12:16 PM
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/1/23/7877051/draymond-green-max-contract-golden-state-warriors

Excellent article on Draymond Green.

beasted86
01-25-2015, 12:48 PM
Why is Green getting so much hype? Ibaka pretty easy choice here.

I'd never pick a tweener unless he was basically all-star elite like a Melo or Westbrook. Green has a more readily replaceable skill set.

5ass
01-25-2015, 01:14 PM
I think many people did (depending on whether they were ranking him as SF or PF), including me. It would seem very odd to think it is out of bounds to rate the arguable 1st Half DPOY who is more than serviceable offensively as a top 10 forward for the year.

Offensive minded fans or box-score watchers won't be a fan of Dray, but if you watch the games or delve deeper into the #'s, he clearly brings a massive impact. Top 10 overall in VORP, #1 in the NBA in DRPM, DBox +/- and defensive rating while guarding 4-5 positions on any given night and while having the ability to hit the 3 ball, and both rebound/pass at a solid level? Just an insanely hard skill set to bring and it makes him one of the most unique/solid players in the NBA right now. I doubt a player in his mold will ever be a "star", but this guy is a player who will be massive in helping keep his teams elite for most of the next decade. One of the craziest motors I've seen. If people think it's simply a product of being in GS, they'll be in for a shock if he ever leaves. I have zero doubt he's going to bring hell wherever he goes for the foreseeable future.

No problem with people taking Ibaka over him though. Rim protection is paramount and he brings it in droves along with his stretch shooting ability. If I don't have a center that can protect a hoop, then my first priority is a guy like Ibaka.

Aaron Gordon.

Sactown
01-25-2015, 02:20 PM
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/1/23/7877051/draymond-green-max-contract-golden-state-warriors

Excellent article on Draymond Green.

Definitely a good read, or something that everyone should consider when evaluating Green. A 4/40 contract seems fair on the warriors while a 4/40 on the Celtics would be an albatross.. not a center piece but about as valuable as a roll player can be